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Ramses II CP
04-08-2008, 23:55
So this might need to be deleted, but I feel obligated to ask why KotR gets a forum only when it ends. :laugh4:

Is this going to be an archive forum, or for the next iteration of the game?

Either way, thanks. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

Privateerkev
04-08-2008, 23:56
Woot!

Free OOC thread!!!!

*spam* *spam* *spam* *spam* *spam*

:beam:

GeneralHankerchief
04-09-2008, 00:25
I think the new game is gonna get its own subforum.

Cecil XIX
04-09-2008, 01:31
Hopefully all the topics will be moved here. I'd hate to have to de-sticky them and have them fall into obscurity.

Northnovas
04-09-2008, 03:32
This maybe a good area to discuss the game and future game.

Privateerkev
04-09-2008, 03:54
This maybe a good area to discuss the game and future game.

I'm up for it.

I've been re-reading your BBB AAR. (pronounced BABAR... :clown: )

I really like the titles. Maybe if we do a mod it can be one that has BBB in it like SS?

Any thoughts gentlemen?

Zim
04-09-2008, 04:25
I think I've heard a couple people mention Stainless Steel before, so it's likely a top candidate. I prefer the Broken Crescent mod myself, although I'm forced to admit the battle AI could use some work.

One thing I'm curious about is the faction we'll use. Keeping with the Roman theme, maybe the Byzantines?

Privateerkev
04-09-2008, 04:50
One thing I'm curious about is the faction we'll use. Keeping with the Roman theme, maybe the Byzantines?

A Roman theme would be keeping with tradition. But maybe it's time for something fresh. I have no ideas in particular.

Northnovas
04-09-2008, 04:51
I like the idea of the titles something a little more visual for the role playing, and the one thing about SS 4.1 is the combination of several mods trying to fix things in the game mechanics.
Maybe with FH ability we can make further adjustments. The other thing with SS is the extra provinces in the game. It is nice to see more settlements.

Has for a faction that will be a difficult choice. :dizzy2:

Zim
04-09-2008, 05:18
I don't know, I think playing the Eastern Empire would be different enough from the last two factions, while still keeping with tradition.

I guess it all depends on what kind of "theme" we're going for. I'd personally suggest Broken Crescent for a completely new experience, but I understand the attraction of Stainless Steel and its titles and improved battle AI.

I guess my main preference for a faction at this point is something outside of Central Europe, which portion of the map I've come to know very well. :clown:


A Roman theme would be keeping with tradition. But maybe it's time for something fresh. I have no ideas in particular.

deguerra
04-09-2008, 06:58
I'm certainly an advocate for SS, but I like Broken Crescent a lot as well. The new traits and ancillaries would make for a much more structure roleplaying for sure :D

Cecil XIX
04-09-2008, 07:50
As I see it, there are essentially two issues concerning our chouce of platform: the roleplaying enhancements offered, and the difficulty of steamrolling. While I am perfectly fine with using a MII:TW mod, I think Europa Barbarorum must be considered as well. That mod has many aspects that are good for roleplaying, and it would also be more challenging than KOTR.

What's more, most MII:TW mods have switched to Kingdoms. We could also use the last vanilla version, but the choice would be another point of contention.

AussieGiant
04-09-2008, 10:10
I guess this is Econ getting things ready for the upcoming discussions.

I would prefer to not us HRE again. The game will use the same names for the most part and that would get a little strange.

Going east would be very interesting, but our collective ability to role play characters from completely different cultures could be a potential boon or a problem.

OverKnight
04-09-2008, 11:04
Going east would be very interesting, but our collective ability to role play characters from completely different cults could be a potential boon or a problem.

In contrast to our highly accurate portrayal of Medieval German Nobles? :clown:

ERE might be interesting if we wanted to continue the Roman permutations, though the various Greek titles might be a headache. Even when I was writing the Comnenian Resoration I could hardly make heads or tails of it.

We could go completely bonkers and play the Aztecs.

_Tristan_
04-09-2008, 11:07
We could go completely bonkers and play the Aztecs.

That could be fun but it would be necessary to give the AI a (very) big boost otherwise it should be a walk in the park...

Ramses II CP
04-09-2008, 14:51
I really think we should consider Broken Crescent for the next run. It does not have a true titles system like SS 4.1, although there are some titles from cities, but that is it's sole disadvantage. The Broken Crescent map is a complete break from Europe, and full of it's own unique strategic and tactical implications. The factions and gameplay are very much different from vanilla, especially the movement rate changes, and the Mongols on the battlefield are everything you could hope for. If we're nearby when they arrive, we will lose settlements to them without having to contrive success for the AI.

I haven't played SS since it moved to Kingdoms for it's current version, so I can't speak authoritatively on it, but what I recall from trying it out is that the game on the strategy map moves more slowly. That might be what we want, to allow for more interesting political developments, or it might not if power is more difficult to accumulate.

Anyway, I encourage everyone to try out BC. Right now there are clearly still some minor bugs (Some AI citadels eventually build cannon towers for example, which were supposed to be removed from the game) but the mod is extremely stable and quite enjoyable.

:egypt:

TinCow
04-09-2008, 14:54
I requested a subforum for the new game. I guess this is it. We'll get the name of the subforum changed when we figure out what we're going to call it.

BC is a good contender for the next game. I'm also drooling over Stainless Steel 6.0 (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=156787), which is due to be released soon. That requires Kingdoms, though, so I don't know whether it's a good idea or not.

Privateerkev
04-09-2008, 15:01
I have Kingdoms so I can handle a mod that needs it.

But, I know some in here might have some major reservations regarding Kingdoms because of Securom. So, if we stay with normal M2TW mods, I can try to do a dual-install because I have the hard-drive space. I just might be asking some of you for help on how to do it because I am relatively computer illiterate. :beam:

Ramses II CP
04-09-2008, 15:02
If the sparkly new Kingdoms patch proves stable over the next few days I'm going to pick up the expansion. For KotR I'd jump the hoops necessary to remove SecuRom anyway. :2thumbsup:

edit: No dual installs should be necessary PK.

:egypt:

FactionHeir
04-09-2008, 15:03
I think maybe half or less of the KOTR players have Kingdoms.
There's probably more of those in the modded hotseats.

Personally, I have no intention of getting it, but that shouldn't stop you from using it anyway :tongue2:

TinCow
04-09-2008, 15:04
I don't own Kingdoms either, but I would buy it if it was needed for the next game. Such a decision needs a lot of discussion, though, since a Kingdoms based game would limit the pool of players.

Privateerkev
04-09-2008, 15:09
edit: No dual installs should be necessary PK.

From my very limited understanding of mods, it seems that some mods only work up to patch 1.2 and won't for Kingdoms/1.3. Is this correct? And if so, does that mean I need two copies of the game on my system?

I wonder what would limit the pool of players more. A M2TW mod, a Kingdoms pure game, or a Kingdoms based mod. Any ideas? Obviously a pure M2TW game would probably limit us the least since most people have patch 1.3. But with a few of us patching to 1.4, that might put us out of reach with the 1.3 people. That is, if they ever get 1.4 out. They just took it back down... :furious3:

Northnovas
04-09-2008, 15:26
I am also one who held off on Kingdoms but have the 1.3 patch. There are mods to accommodate such has the SS 4.1. Like TC mentioned I would also give consideration for a purchase with reservations.

The Securom is a minor issue more of an annoyance on principle. I just don't like the fact of paying for something again that is not an upgrade. If it was a new patch and many issues addressed that have been out in a mod I would not hesitate but when I can get the fix from a mod and enjoy the game without the further cost I am content with that.

Its not the issue of cost for a new game but what am I getting for my money.

Privateerkev
04-09-2008, 15:38
I was very much against Kingdoms because of Securom. But, I held my breath, installed it, and saw my computer did not explode like I first feared. Now I love it. The Crusade campaign by itself was worth the extra money. :yes:

But I know others have their reservations. We've learned the hard way that we need to all have the same version of the game so I'll try to dual-install if we go with a non-Kingdom mod. I have the hard-drive space just sitting there since I don't download things and I only play 1 or 2 games at a time.

FactionHeir
04-09-2008, 15:39
Afaik mods designed using 1.2 will not run into problems using 1.3.

Regarding the Kingdoms patch, it depends on whether it patches kingdoms.exe only or also medieval2.exe. If the former, then there should be no problems if a M2TW only mod is chosen.

AussieGiant
04-09-2008, 15:41
I don't have Kingdom's either.

I really think we should keep the game based on the main game and not an expansion...only because many people don't purchase an expansion for a variety of reasons. I guess I'm one of those examples...and I have every expansion up until kingdoms.

Privateerkev
04-09-2008, 15:41
Afaik mods designed using 1.2 will not run into problems using 1.3.

Regarding the Kingdoms patch, it depends on whether it patches kingdoms.exe only or also medieval2.exe. If the former, then there should be no problems if a M2TW only mod is chosen.

Cool, if they ever get around to putting it back up, I'll get 1.4. Let me know what to look for and I'll tell you which file it patches. :2thumbsup:

Ferret
04-09-2008, 16:41
well I have Kingdoms and would be happy with pretty much any mod. SS is close to vanilla but it would be good. Don't the current draft of rules require a perticular setting or faction?

Cecil XIX
04-09-2008, 18:21
well I have Kingdoms and would be happy with pretty much any mod. SS is close to vanilla but it would be good. Don't the current draft of rules require a perticular setting or faction?

You bring up a good point, Elite Ferret. I'm hoping Tincow's rules are more of a template for modification and discussion, because we would definitely want a set a rules that attempts to reflect the political structure of the faction we're playing as, as well as any minor differences between platform.

TinCow
04-09-2008, 18:49
The draft rules are intentionally written to be completely generic for faction and mods. They can be adapted for any faction in any mod without any problems. They would even work perfectly fine for RTW.

The only area where it would impact the selection would be in the number of provinces. The more provinces in a mod, the better the game will work IMO. However, even that area isn't a big deal. More provinces will work better with the rules, but the vanilla number will work just fine as well.

Zim
04-09-2008, 18:55
Maybe we could do a poll to see how many KOTR players have or would be willing to buy Kingdoms?

I suspect that a non-Kingdoms mod is the best way to go if we want as many players as possible.

gibsonsg91921
04-10-2008, 00:03
Ooo... I would have to pass if there was a mod. My parents are hesitant of mods being downloaded on their work computers. They don't even like games, period, being there.

TinCow
04-10-2008, 00:10
Eek! It's almost certain that we'll pick a mod of some sort. I would hate to see you excluded. Would it help if some of us older folks explained that it's perfectly safe for the computer, and that these games stimulate the imagination and encourage creative writing? It's educational!

Zim
04-10-2008, 00:11
I sympathise, having my own mod problems (in my case, it's just downloading the mod that's hard, because my internet connection is so slow. :furious3: ).

But didn't KOTR have a mod? Or was that ok because it was smaller?


Ooo... I would have to pass if there was a mod. My parents are hesitant of mods being downloaded on their work computers. They don't even like games, period, being there.

TinCow
04-10-2008, 00:13
I sympathise, having my own mod problems (in my case, it's just downloading the mod that's hard, because my internet connection is so slow. :furious3: ).

I will happily burn DVDs with the needed mods and mail them to anyone who needs them, if that's the difference between playing the next game or not.

Zim
04-10-2008, 00:13
Another point for BC or any other realism mods. It's "educational". :beam:

If I were a parent, I'd actually consider a game like this a pretty good way to turn what is already a fun game into a way to get a kid into creative writing and critical thinking (all the intrigue and politics). Playing it has certainly been more useful than even some of the Political Science courses I took in college. :yes:


Eek! It's almost certain that we'll pick a mod of some sort. I would hate to see you excluded. Would it help if some of us older folks explained that it's perfectly safe for the computer, and that these games stimulate the imagination and encourage creative writing? It's educational!

Zim
04-10-2008, 00:16
I would gladly accept that offer. I'm stuck with an incredibly slow dial up connection on my gaming computer. Even if I could count on it not cutting out a day or two into the download, people do need to use the phone occasionally. :clown: I have another computer with a mediocre wireless connection, but not only does it cut out constantly (making downloading any mod an adventure) but I don't have a thumb drive nearly big enough for most newer mods. :sweatdrop:


I will happily burn DVDs with the needed mods and mail them to anyone who needs them, if that's the difference between playing the next game or not.

gibsonsg91921
04-10-2008, 00:42
Haha, my parents are reluctant to install any games, let alone community-based mods. If I were to spin it as a community patch with awards and no errors (it would have to be literally a Stainless mod with almost no bugs and absolutely nothing that would change the basic operation of the computer) then it might be possible. It may take a while for me to join. If I can't, I'll be there on the sidelines or take up the Maximillian von Tyrolia-esque role again.

'Sides, you rascals wouldn't want me anyways.

AussieGiant
04-10-2008, 08:48
Haha, my parents are reluctant to install any games, let alone community-based mods. If I were to spin it as a community patch with awards and no errors (it would have to be literally a Stainless mod with almost no bugs and absolutely nothing that would change the basic operation of the computer) then it might be possible. It may take a while for me to join. If I can't, I'll be there on the sidelines or take up the Maximillian von Tyrolia-esque role again.

'Sides, you rascals wouldn't want me anyways.

Bollocks Gibbo. I want you...now that sounded just wrong...but everyone knows what I mean!! :clown:

As for the mods:

I really don't want something that is not up to the standard of the CA development levels. This game and these mods are hugely complex pieces of code and whichever one 'We' take will by default get a massive test that most single play campaigns can never hope to replicate.

It really has to be bullet proof in my opinion otherwise we could run into issues that could make the things we saw in this game seem minor.

Personally I'd like Econ or TC to ask the boys from CA what they think and get back to us with their professional opinions. That question is ask with an outline of what the community is going to be doing with it, technically, and as the back drop for the game we play with it.

Tc/Econ do you think that is possible?

TinCow
04-10-2008, 12:11
I really don't want something that is not up to the standard of the CA development levels. This game and these mods are hugely complex pieces of code and whichever one 'We' take will by default get a massive test that most single play campaigns can never hope to replicate.

It really has to be bullet proof in my opinion otherwise we could run into issues that could make the things we saw in this game seem minor.

Personally I'd like Econ or TC to ask the boys from CA what they think and get back to us with their professional opinions. That question is ask with an outline of what the community is going to be doing with it, technically, and as the back drop for the game we play with it.

Tc/Econ do you think that is possible?

I don't think stability will be a problem as long as we use a well-known mod like BC or SS. They already have a lot of players and have dedicated modding crews who fix bugs when they pop up. WOTS used the RTR mod and we didn't have any significant problems with it.

deguerra
04-10-2008, 12:40
Quite frankly some CA projects (*cough* kingdoms *cough*) are a little unpolished themselves. Sure you might run into some minor issues with mods (they are constantly updated for a reason, but I don't think it should be a dramatic problem.

AussieGiant
04-10-2008, 12:48
Great good to hear.

I think someone is going to have to walk me through making sure I can play MTWII with FH's VnV updates (which I think is a perfect level to play on), and then play this next game with what ever mod we choose.

I'm certain there is more than enough support here in the group for that to happen.

It certainly seems as if SS or BC are going to be the two main option.

And yes deguerra, the state of Kingdoms is why I didn't purchase it. It was a little "under done" for my tastes and I don't want to purchase something like that from CA...they can pull their socks up a little more than that before I spend some more money on them...of course this is just my opinion as an informed CA consumer for 9 odd years. :whip: :beam:

deguerra
04-10-2008, 12:59
Agree with you 100%. The only reason I finally buckled under was because of the mods and because people were having so much fun with hotseat campaigns. But I picked it up over the internet somewhere for something in the vicinity of 15 dollars Australian, so I didn't feel too cheated :D

Ramses II CP
04-10-2008, 14:35
Something we really have to take into account is that if we don't move to Kingdoms we'll be cutting ourselves off from the future patches for most of the mods. Almost all of them are moving to Kingdoms only releases now, evidently because of some improved development options. There are known issues with SS 4.1, BC, DLV, etc. that simply won't be fixed.

I guess that's fairly likely anyway, since we can't install any patch that's save game incompatible, but it still has an impact.

All of which appears to argue for Vanilla, except for the fact that vanilla is just not up to par. Even with all the work of the cataclysm, cash cowing, and the AI uber armies no one looking at the year by year development of the strategy map would mistake which KotR nation was played by a human.

:egypt:

Privateerkev
04-10-2008, 15:00
In the end, I'm up for what ever is the most inclusive. If it's pure vanilla M2TW, that is fine, I'll just dual install. If it's vanilla with FH's trait fix, that's fine too. Kingdoms, no problem. M2TW mod, fine with me as long as it is stable. Kingdoms mod, sure. Whatever keeps the most of us together.

I want to be as flexible as possible so it allows others who aren't as flexible to be able to play. I know some people have parent computers, download issues, money problems, hard drive space limitations, ect... so I want to help them as much as possible. :yes:

I'm confident that with this group of players, we can make any version of the game a cool playing experience. :2thumbsup:

FactionHeir
04-10-2008, 17:09
Once I get around testing some more changes (and possibly beef up the number of armies for the hordes) for VanillaMod and it works all right, I might be willing to suggest that too. That is, unless you guys are bored of vanilla type gaming :grin:

Ferret
04-10-2008, 17:34
I would prefer a bigger map at least and new units would be nice, plain old vanilla seems boring after all the great mods that are out...

Zim
04-10-2008, 18:58
I'd like to second that (two more things BC has going for it! :D ). At the very least, if we play FactionHeir's mod, could the Big Map mod somehow be added to it? More settlements not only means more space for the player characters to play around in and fight over, but makes it easier to absorb a lot of players. It means more marriages, chidren born, etc since they're tied to the number of provinces you have. :yes:


I would prefer a bigger map at least and new units would be nice, plain old vanilla seems boring after all the great mods that are out...

deguerra
04-11-2008, 00:40
Good point Zim.

gibsonsg91921
04-11-2008, 01:07
I just tweaked my parents with the idea of downloading a mod and they aren't too thrilled about it. My mom is worried about the reliability of a mod that wasn't made by the actual CA. If you would be able to get CA approval for a mod we picked, that would be amazing.

FactionHeir
04-11-2008, 03:16
I'd like to second that (two more things BC has going for it! :D ). At the very least, if we play FactionHeir's mod, could the Big Map mod somehow be added to it? More settlements not only means more space for the player characters to play around in and fight over, but makes it easier to absorb a lot of players. It means more marriages, chidren born, etc since they're tied to the number of provinces you have. :yes:

Warluster was supposed to make a larger map for it but he vanished sometime ago with it. That's one of the things I had planned for the mod.

deguerra
04-11-2008, 04:31
Gibson, to what extent do your parents know what a mod is? I can understand a certain...reluctance to anything that is not "officially" published, but given that
a) a lot of stuff officially published is still crap; and
b) if any sort of problem with a mod is run into, it can be very easily uninstalled, and the game will be back to normal (even more so, now that mods actually have their own locations), I can't help but think their fears should be able to be addressed.

I don't think CA can "approve" of a mod, simply because they would never be willing to take responsibility for something that they do not control.

I was going to say something else of vast intelligence and pivotal to the overall debate, but it has escaped me. :laugh4:

gibsonsg91921
04-11-2008, 22:55
Deguerra, your thoughts parallel my own. I think they're afraid a mod would alter something non-M2TW based or have some secret Spyware. Maybe I'd accidentally download it from some shady place that hides viruses along with. Who knows? Haha.

FactionHeir
04-12-2008, 02:19
They were OK with my fixes though? ~:)

Northnovas
04-12-2008, 03:13
Deguerra, your thoughts parallel my own. I think they're afraid a mod would alter something non-M2TW based or have some secret Spyware. Maybe I'd accidentally download it from some shady place that hides viruses along with. Who knows? Haha.

They must not use the internet!? :laugh4: You have more problems surfing and visiting sites then you do loading a trusted mod on to your computer. There are a lot of nasty things out there and at least they are aware of potential issues but a trusted gaming mod would should not be a concern.

I am very vigilant what I download and where I surf so I can see where they are coming from but I have never had an issue with a popular gaming mod.

gibsonsg91921
04-12-2008, 04:49
Your fixes were fine cuz they were really small and I called them mini-patches.