campaign info for newbies

[solypsist]

The downloaded manual for STW on the official site does a pretty good job informationally, but here are a few things new people might overlook during the course of a campaign:

1. When combining fragmented units into one banner , the resulting honor/morale is reset to whichever has the lowest, not an average.

2. If you play with units of 120 men, it will take 2 seasons to train a unit.

3. Ports allow you to transfer armies from other ports. The AI uses this to transport spies/agents but not armies, so some people consider port invasions unfair.

This is hardly complete, as I'm sure other forum users will be the first to point out, but it's just little details like this that can help you understand the game.

Hope it helps

[Rob]

I think I remember a Shogun FAQ being posted here a while ago. Is there actually a FAQ in existance at the moment, and if not, why not?

[The Black Ship]

I'm certain Soly when combining fragmented units, of differing honour levels, that the new unit's honour will be the average of the fragments.
I've also heard that when combining dissimilar armoured units, if you drop an unarmoured unit onto an armoured unit= all armoured unit http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[hecose]

I think when you merge two depleted units the honour of the merged unit is the average. At least that's what I have observed so far.

Another thing that would be useful for new players of STW is a reference map showing koku income, special training abilities, terrain type, mines, iron deposits etc. You can find it at Erado San's website...
http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/Erado/Home/Home_Frame.htm

hmm... I just went to check when halfway typing this post. Seems like it has been removed. (or I can't find it) I have sent one to dan, but not sure when he has posted it on totalwar.org.

[solypsist]

my proof for the info on merging units:

campaign game, i used several units and the nsaved my game. After a bit, i had several honor 5 yari samurai and then made some honor 1 yari samurai (with a new province w/palace).
The combination of half honor 5 (about 30 men) to half honor 1 (more like 20-25 men) resulted in honor 1. I notice this and so spent the rest of my game (rather than playing to win, i simply fought to test this theory) and noticed that this was the case every time. the number of men didnt seem to affect the outcome. it was lowest honor every single go. after a while i became frustrateed with watching honor 5 cav beceom honor 2 cav after being merged with honor 2 cav.

[The Black Ship]

Damn Soly...that sucks for you http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

I have the averaging thing goin on in my games, so when I merge 30 h5 with 30 h1 I'll get an aggregate between h2 and h4.
Seems there's averaging going on all the way round, and your h5 boys can be anywhere from 4.51 to 5.5.
Same with all honour levels. It can give you some surprising results sometimes when you merge 2 h2 units and comeup with an h1 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

[Magraev]

I agree with Black Ship - the honor is averaged. The FAQ (methinks) states, that the honor of the individual soldier is kept, so if you mix an 30 honor 0 samurai with 30 honor 5 samurai you'll get a unit of half rookies and half veterans, that will be listed as honor 2, 3 or 4.

[solypsist]

I just also noticed that when I combine units with differences in armor/weapon quality, it always rounds down to the lowest.


maybe it has something to do with the campaign difficulty level I'm playing (Expert). No doubt on the easier levels it probably evens out. Which is probably why you get a different result than I do.


[This message has been edited by solypsist (edited 11-07-2000).]

[Magraev]

I apologize for the spelling... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

[Magraev]

OK - I admit to playing mostly on easy, and yes that might explain it.

Doesn't seem right though.

[DrNo]

Each individual soldier has his honour and armour tracked individually. So when you combine depleted units, the unit honour and armour are just representations trying to show the average.
So if you combine 10 honour 5 soldiers with 50 honour 0. Those 10 super soldiers will still have high honour, and this will show in battle when you see some of your soldiers kicking ass, while the others struggle.

I notice this most when a unit gets down to it's last few men, you see the last man fight on for quite a while somtimes because he has high honour. Also as you take casualties the honour of your units can sky rocket as the low honour troops get killed first(generally). Try it with your Daimyo unit, I have seen mine up to honour 7 with about 4 soldiers left, then after the battle the replacements drop it down to about 4.

So you don't gain or lose honour/armour by combining units.

[solypsist]

I've noticed what you've described, Dr. No. Hmm......

[Widda]

Testing most of the above playing Mori on Hard I noticed this whilst joining 2 WM units.
Note I quick saved prior to tests ( ctrl-s ).

1- WM H3, 48 dudes No Armor, No Weapons.
Taisho 6 wins 0 losses.
2- WM H4, 3 dudes impr Armor, impr Weapon.
Taisho 0 wins 0 losses.

Grabing the first unit and droping on 2nd resulted in H2, impr arm, imp weap, 0 win, 0 losses 51 dudes.
Quick load ( ctrl-l ) grab 2nd and drop on 1st results H3, No arm, No weap, 0 win, 0 losses.
Also the star depicting the taisho in the unit disappears even if its the only unit in the army.

Now, if after this you grab the unit and move it to another army or create a new one with it the stats are regenerated and
the star returns, the Taisho returns and the averages return. The armor and weapon upgrades only seem to work if you drop the non upgraded unit on the upgraded one. These I am assuming are a unit wide stat rather than an individual soldier stat.

Hope this helps...

Widda.

[This message has been edited by Widda (edited 11-08-2000).]

[solypsist]

how the order of "dropping" units into one another results in what abilities the unit ends up with is a damn important thing to know. thanks for taking the timeand doing some testing.

[ShaiHulud]

Friends, I've joined Honor 3 and Honor 2 and gotten a Honor 3 unit. Rounding up would be necessary to explain my own results. Perhaps, if the individual soldiers in a unit are NEARLY to Honor 4 an average WOULD result in Honor 3.

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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[The Black Ship]

Shai,

I get the same results, but others don't. Best anyone can come up with is averaging occurs more towards the normal mode, but low man average is for the expert mode? I have my doubts but so many people are posting the same results that somethingwhacky is going on http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

[katwomansz]

>>1. When combining fragmented units into one banner , the resulting honor/morale is reset to whichever has the lowest, not an average.

[Obake]

Catwoman,

You can only combine depleted units up to the unit size. For example, if you are playing with 60-man unit sizes, you can combine a 25-man unit with a 35-man unit to create a single 60 man unit. You may NOT however combine two 40-man units to get a 60-man unit and a 20-man unit.

Combinations are achieved by dragging one of the depleted units onto the other. Hope this helps.

Obake

[Widda]

Only directly after you join the two units does the bogus values appear if you move the unit to another army or create a new army with it, the unit stats are recalculated.

The taisho ( if you had one ) returns and the honor is averaged, on any difficulty setting in my experience.

The armor and weapon upgrades I believe are global for the unit, as is seen with my example above, were 3 of 51 is not anything like a decent percentage of the troops with special equip.

This was different pre 1.11 patch as the taishos were geting lost in the ether.

Happy gaming... Widda

[Ai-jin]

Just want to say...

"Konnichiwa" all you honorable samas....

Thanks for the advice on this flanking stuff, it has really helped my online gaming.
I have had the game sense its release, but have only joined you online gamers a week ago. And my first experiences have not been fun... but with the help that you have graciously givin, I am slowly learning.
So if you catch me online please be easy with me.. "yeah right"



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http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=view_photo&ID_Community=PersonalBEETribe&ID_Topic=1&ID_Message=14
"May Thy Blood Run Freely"

[ShaiHulud]

Black Ship, The Expert level theory doesn't fit, either. Am playing at Expert and have seen Honor 2 and 3 joined to make a 3 recently. Think I'll thank the developers for keeping the mystery of it a secret. Not knowing how things work (precisely) adds a little spice for me.

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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

There are a lot of other issues to be fixed..

The next single-player patch will arrange things around...

But Shogun is still a great game as it is.

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Honour to Clan Kenchikuka.

Visit my resource centre at:

http://terazawa_tokugawa.tripod.com/terazawatokugawa

[The Black Ship]

Don't get me wrong Shai I'm with you, the game works fine averaging for me, on any level. I just don't understans what's happening to the others http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

[The Black Ship]

Don't get me wrong Shai I'm with you, the game works fine averaging for me, on any level. I just don't understans what's happening to the others http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

Doh!!!...sorry about the double post, I thought the board got hung http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/net2/icon18.gif

[This message has been edited by The Black Ship (edited 11-09-2000).]

[ShaiHulud]

For the record, today I joined a Honor 5 with Honor 1 and Honor 4 resulted. Now I'm completely lost! LoL!

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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[hecose]

Regarding the STW map which I mentioned earlier, Dan has put it in the download section.

This is a reference map showing koku income, special training abilities, terrain type, mines, iron deposits etc. I found it very useful when I first started playing STW.

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Widda:
Quote The taisho ( if you had one ) returns and the honor is averaged, on any difficulty setting in my experience.
[/QUOTE]

Note on this disappearing Taisho thing. What happens here is that the general, who commands the entire army (strategic boardgame piece) is NOT placed in command of his own unit as normally. This means that the Taisho, even though he is the army commander, hides somewhere within the ranks of the unit instead of being the leader (i.e. the guy who carries the big flag and charges to his death first). This means that the person carrying the Taisho marker is actually NOT the Taisho, but some random soldier (likely the commander of the other unit merged). IF, I said IF, this works in tactical battles, it's a huge edge, in terms of both deception and Taisho unit usefulness in combat. Ought to be tested.

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"The ancient rule declares that letters are the left hand and militarism the right. Neither must be neglected."
- Hôjô Sôun

[Widda]

So, your saying that perhaps the unit commander is different from the army commander and when the unit commander dies the Taisho continues on. Knowing my luck the unit cmdr in the front rank where they fight best mathmatically will live and my Taisho bludging down the back will be first to die when the're out flanked..... http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/net4/165.gif

A most interesting notion. http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/net3/smileJap.gif Widda....


[This message has been edited by Widda (edited 11-10-2000).]

[katwomansz]

Quote Originally posted by Obake:
Catwoman,

You can only combine depleted units up to the unit size. For example, if you are playing with 60-man unit sizes, you can combine a 25-man unit with a 35-man unit to create a single 60 man unit. You may NOT however combine two 40-man units to get a 60-man unit and a 20-man unit.

Combinations are achieved by dragging one of the depleted units onto the other. Hope this helps.

Obake[/QUOTE]

Thanks!! Obake! Can you believe I missed this little detail? Well we have all dl the European manual from EA now haven't we? DUH

[Tenchimuyo]

Don't concentrate on advancing technologies at the beggining of the game, that can drain your koku really fast, just pay more attention on build your farms. Try to expand your army's size so as to provide yourself with better protection from your neighbors and over power others. And most important, make allies.

[This message has been edited by Tenchimuyo (edited 11-16-2000).]