Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

About the Mod

Q: What is EB?
A: Europa Barbarorum was started to more accurately represent the barbarian factions in Rome - Total War as more than unwashed hordes but quickly expanded into accurate representations of all of the factions. Over the X years that EB has existed, EB has completely remade the Rome - Total War game with the goal of historical accuracy and fair representations of all factions. With the completion of Europa Barbarorum Version 1.1, the team has moved on to the M2TW engine to recreate the Roman Era with the new features available therein.

Q: Is EB2 going to be for the Kingdoms expansion?
A: Yes, EB2 will be designed for Kingdoms and will only work with the Kingdoms expansion, patched to 1.05

Q: Why not use the engines of TW Empires or Shogun 2 ?
A: Because MTW2 is the only reasonably moddable engine after RTW.

Q: What is the start date / end date?
A: 272BC - AD14

Q: Is this a Roman-centric mod?
Q: Is this a barbarian-centric mod?
A: EB attempts to give all included factions an equal share and portray them as they historically were, without favouring one faction or culture.

Q: Are you affiliated with Europa Barbarorum for Rome : Total War?
A: The EB2 team started from the EB1 team, but now very few remain. Although never in great numbers, the team has managed to recruit enough modders to keep working, even if at a slow pace.

Q: When will EB2 be released?
A: Although research and concepting from Europa Barbarorum can be used for Europa Barbarorum II, all unit have to be remade. This will take a large amount of time and an accurate estimate of a release date cannot yet be ascertained. If you can model/skin units in M2TW and want to help us finish EB2 quicker, visit the Recruitment Thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93339) and tell us what you can do.

Q: Will it be released completely in one big-bang event?
A: No. Due to the huge scope and lack of manpower, we have decided to release it partially. The 1st release will have most of the mechanics, traits, scripts, battlemap settlements and a large number of units. Subsequent releases will allow to improve those aspects considering the players' feedback and will also include more units.

Q: What previews have there been?
A: All previews are linked in this thread:
All the Previews In One Thread... (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=106937)


About the Factions

Q: What are the new factions that will be in EB2?
A: The list of factions is not closed yet, but EB2 will have the following factions in the 1st release:
(from EB1)
- Rome
- Carthage
- Makedonia
- Epeiros
- Koinon Hellenon
- Seleukid Empire
- Ptolemaioi
- Baktria
- Hayasdan
- Pontos
- Parthia
- Aedui
- Arverni
- Pritanoi (replaces the Casse)
- Lusotannan
- Sweboz
- Getai
- Saba
- Saka Rauka
- Sauromatae
(new in EB2)
- Numidia
- Pergamon
- Taksashila
- Lugia
- Bosporan Kingdom
- Arevaci
- Boii
- Nabatean Empire

Q: Will the Koinon Hellenon be devided into a Spartan, Athenian, and Rhodian Faction?
A: The Koinon Hellenon will remain as a faction and will not be divided up. Individually, each city-state was not strong enough or expansionistic enough to warrant the usage of a faction slot during this time period. Based on the EB system of deciding factions, if the Koinon were divided, it would be best represented by strong rebels. Therefore, the Koinon Hellenon will remain as a united league.

Q: Will there be factions available to play later in the campaign, like the Cimbri or Yuezhi?
A: No, the EB team have stated numerous times that we want all our factions to be playable from 272 BC.


About the Units

Q: How many units there will be?
A: The 1st release will have around 200 units.

Q: Units will have different faces?
A: Units will not only have different faces but also different individual features (armor, shields, weapons, etc). Armies in this period rarely were uniformly dressed and equipped.

Q: Will there be Lorica Segmentata in EB2?
A: Lorica Segmentata was not widely used within the games time frame. Even though it could be argued that it was used to a minimal extent at the very end of the time frame the team has decided not to include any Lorica Segmentata in the official EB2 releases.

Q: Will there be camel-mounted units for the Arab factions?
A: Most probably not in the 1st release. The list of 200 units is already closed, although some units may yet "creep in" until release day.


About the Gameplay

Q: Will settlements/forts/etc look Medieval or Ancient?
A: They will look Ancient.

Q: Will we see the RTW ancient formations in EB2 (phalanx, testuto, etc)?
A: The phalanx formation is in EB2, but Testudo will not be in because we can't make it work under the MTW2 engine.

Q: Will there be Roman civil wars?
A: The use of a Roman counter-faction has been decided against. Not only does this require the use of a faction slot as a non-playable faction, but this would be too Roman-centric. The Romans were not the only ones with civil wars and devisive conflicts at the time. If the Romans got a counter-faction then many other factions should get them too, such as Arche Seleukeia and the Ptolemaioi. Internal conflicts can and will be represented, however, with scripting and the loyalty feature of M2TW, for many factions.

Q: Will the new agents be used (merchants, priests/imams, & princesses)?
A: There was a lot of discussion about possible uses but since none of them involved historical necessity, we have basically ignored them for now and they won't be in the 1st release at least.

Q: Will the Pope and Cardinal elections be used in any way?
A: No, since there is no historical perspective that could require them in the Hellenistic period.

Q: Will the Crusades/Jihad features of the M2TW engine be used?
A: No, since there is no historical perspective that could require them in the Hellenistic period.

Q: Is the campaign map larger?
A: Both Rome - Total War and Medieval 2 - Total War have the same hardcoded number of provinces (199), so no additional settlements can be added to the game, although there are new regions in place of others that we removed. However, the scale of map will increase (approximately 1.3x).

Q: Will historical characters be scripted to appear throughout the campaign (eg. Hannibal, Julius Caesar, etc).
A: No. EB is commited to the philosophy of setting the stage in 272 then allowing the game to play out as it will. Characters who are not alive by 272 will not appear later in the game as this would conflict with this. There are too many causes that cannot be replicated in the game to accurately represent these characters later in the game. EB is about making your own Hannibal, or your own Julius Caesar.

Q: Will historical invasions like the Cimbri invasion in 113 BC or historical events like Spartacus' slave revolt appear?
A: Any invasions and mass-migrations that originated in the geographical area represented by our map will not be in, but invasions that originated outside the map will. When it comes to major invasions & events on our map, they will only be included if they can be recreated with the MTW2 engine following a set of conditions that simulate what happened historically.

Q: Will you represent cultures? How and which ones?
A: We will use the religion mechanism to represent socio-political affinities, which are in competition in varying degrees in any given settlement. This competition may end up in civil unrest, if a culture gets closer in importance to the dominant one. Certain factions will need to evolve to another culture, which will certainly trigger unrest throughout the territory, and that transition will be harder if the player wants to do it too fast. The cultures are:
- Arid Nomadism
- Steppe Nomadism
- Eastern Imperial
- Eastern Tribal
- European Tribal
- Forest Tribal
- Western Mediterranean Polities
- Hellenistic Polities
- Indian Tribal

[Hax]

A: Both Rome - Total War and Medievil 2 - Total War have the same hardcoded number of provinces (199), so no new settlements can be added to the game. However, the scale of map will increase (approximately 1.3x).

Marcus, the word is actually medieval. Furthermore, good that you posted this, will avoid some unwanted questions.

[Foot]

Lets not clog up the FAQ with spam please. (not you Hax). With a new FAQ we'll be deleting posts that don't contain suggestions or questions.

Foot

[beatoangelico]

Q: Will we see the RTW ancient formations in EB2 (phalanx, testuto, etc)?
A: The phalanx formation will definately be in EB2

:2thumbsup:

[hellenes]

A question:
Will EBII include the faction leaders separate model feature from M2TWK? Like Manuel Komnenos having his own model on the battlefield....? I mean just for the starting leaders....Like Antigonos...Ptolemaios?

[Spendios]

A question:
Will EBII include the faction leaders separate model feature from M2TWK? Like Manuel Komnenos having his own model on the battlefield....? I mean just for the starting leaders....Like Antigonos...Ptolemaios?

Not decided yet but it's a really low priority.

[Spartiaths]

it could be nice thought

[Gebeleisis]

good faq :yes:

[hellenes]

Not decided yet but it's a really low priority.

Hey guys no pressure...just a nice feature....

[Ignoramus]

Will religion be used in EBII, or will it be used to represent culture etc.?

[Foot]

Will religion be used in EBII, or will it be used to represent culture etc.?

Neither, it will represent something different.

Foot

[General Appo]

Damn, now I´m getting all overtly excited again about what the hell the EB team is planning.

[Foot]

So are we, we haven't seen how it will all work together yet.

Foot

[Ibrahim]

I have a question:

did the makedonians/ hellenistic armies really paint their helm? if so, will there be such a thing in EB2 (I ask: a) out of curioasity, and b) someone else is bound to ask, and start up a another war)



Thank you for your enthusiasm. We are currenty working on a development FAQ, where we are going to put all the relevant questions and (the possible) answers to them. This way we can have a single frontend for fans requests and questions, instead of a chance-basis. So, stay tuned!

I hold him up in posting my Q

[lobf]

Will Religion represent ehtnic groups somehow?

[ziegenpeter]

Neither, it will represent something different.

Foot
:yes:

[blacksnail]

Will Religion represent ehtnic groups somehow?
To elaborate, hardcoded representation of the M2TW religion limits us because of the way it displays on some of the scrolls. Essentially you can only have so many before the scroll barfs.

[lobf]

Thanks! :2thumbsup:

[Ayce]

To elaborate, hardcoded representation of the M2TW religion limits us because of the way it displays on some of the scrolls. Essentially you can only have so many before the scroll barfs.

What about culture groups? ((W) Greek, (E) Greek, Roman, Semitic, Phoenician, Thracian, Celtic, Germanic, (Slavic), Schytian, Iberian, Indian)

[Belisarius12]

thill when will i have the time to download this current mod because the came i ordered is still underway and i will like to play it before this current mod ends

[Ludens]

I am afraid I do not understand what you wrote. EB2 is not available for download, and I doubt it will be before 2009. Until that time, you can play EB1.1.

[Hax]

Is the culture limit still 7?

[Foot]

Yes, the culture limit is still 7. We did make a request to CA to have the limit upped, but unfortunately the increase has not appeared in any of the patches.

Foot

[Hax]

Huh, that would make it indeed harder for the inclusion of say Gandhara. Doesn't feel really just to give them the eastern attribute.

[blacksnail]

What about culture groups? ((W) Greek, (E) Greek, Roman, Semitic, Phoenician, Thracian, Celtic, Germanic, (Slavic), Schytian, Iberian, Indian)
I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean culture groups with similar UI interfaces as in EB1?

[wumpus]

my suggestion in the form of a question: why must the time frame be limited to 272BC - AD14?
to have a little longer time (perhaps until AD50 or so) would be nicer. i'd hate my campaign to suddenly be over just because it's already AD14 and i haven't yet totally vanquished the seleukids. Hawooh.

[Foot]

Some 1144 turns is not enough for you? No one that I can recall has ever hit 14AD. There are no plans to change the end date.

Foot

[General Appo]

Wumpus, if you can show me anyone (I mean anyone) who has ever played to 14AD I will... well I won´t believe you.
The only way I´d ever play to 14AD was if I got really addicted to a campaign. Seeing it suddenly end would be a true relief.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Since the game engine does not have unlimited immerging factions; civil wars; internal unrest; realistic famine, disease, and rioting; or population troubles, by around 100BC you'll run out of things to do in a campaign. You would have to be going super slow to even have much left to conquer. And if you didn't conquer the map, an AI faction will have and you'll be bogged down in a war with a superpower. As it is, AD14 is almost too late...

Besides, game engine unit limits means that the Romans won't be getting any new units or anything.

[Cybvep]

Since the game engine does not have unlimited immerging factions; civil wars; internal unrest; realistic famine, disease, and rioting; or population troubles, by around 100BC you'll run out of things to do in a campaign. You would have to be going super slow to even have much left to conquer. And if you didn't conquer the map, an AI faction will have and you'll be bogged down in a war with a superpower. As it is, AD14 is almost too late...

Besides, game engine unit limits means that the Romans won't be getting any new units or anything.

BTW, some MTW2 mods, like The Long Road, implemented revolts of nobility. Any plans for putting something like that in? Having the player to worry more about internal struggles would be realistic and cool.

[V.T. Marvin]

... revolts of nobility. Any plans for putting something like that in? Having the player to worry more about internal struggles would be realistic and cool.
Seconded! Without internal tension, expansion gets too easy, even if one tries his best to restrain himself.

BTW - the civil war in your (MAA) AAR added greatly to the story. But it took a lot of modding and console-commanding to represent that.

Would be nice if the game itself allowed for eventual break up of a great empire. Im sure that would be a feature that would payed its worth even if something else (like one playable faction, maybe) would have to be sacrificed to that.

But whatever you do, you will have my support regardless! :bow: :bow: :bow:

[Puupertti Ruma]

Got an idea for an addition to the FAQ, as this has come up at least 2 times. To question answering the timeline of the mod it could be beneficial to note that EB uses 4 seasons per year and therefore it will have quite a lot more turns in it than say vanilla rome, or MTW2. Maybe a comparison stating that EB has X turns within A number of years, and vanilla Rome has Y turns within B years and vanilla MTW2 has Z turns in it's C years. Should stop people from asking for more timespan.

[Reverend Joe]

Question:

Does Foot wear a giant Dr. Scholl's rubber pad and/or foot powder all over his body?

~;p

[Hax]

Perhaps making an 'small/quick questions' thread will help in two ways:

1) So this forum won't be clogged up with the same old questions ever again (or small questions)
2) So newbies have a place to put their questions and see whether it's been answered already.

[sedlacekj]

I wonder if the max unit size in M2TW is restricted to 150, or is there some way to have larger units like 240, or more?

[Foot]

I believe in Kingdoms the max unit size is something like 250.

Foot

[sedlacekj]

Does anyone make a CAS exporter for Kingdoms? I already did that to M2TW.

[Foot]

Vercingetorix's CAS importer/exporter that was made for RTW works with all CAS files in both M2TW and Kingdoms. However, this FAQ is about EBII, please don't ask questions that belong elsewhere. That is a general modding question (in fact both of yours were) and belong in the general modding forums for M2TW.

Foot

[chenkai11]

I don't play Kingdom much, I wonder is there a way to train a later reformed unit with existing veteran units?

What I mean is, after I got the reform, can I convert a veteran libyan spearmen to libyan heavy spearmen and still carrying the experience? Instead of training a unit.

In EB1 I can only do it by disband the libyan spearmen and train the later one, but the problem is the experience you gained will be lost.

[redworah]

will there be hotseat like in kingdoms that would be the greatest

[Foot]

I don't play Kingdom much, I wonder is there a way to train a later reformed unit with existing veteran units?

What I mean is, after I got the reform, can I convert a veteran libyan spearmen to libyan heavy spearmen and still carrying the experience? Instead of training a unit.

In EB1 I can only do it by disband the libyan spearmen and train the later one, but the problem is the experience you gained will be lost.

Not really possible in most cases. This is because we cannot change a unit stats mid-game. The only exception to this is the armour upgrade, which not only changes the stats of a unit but also changes the model. But this has limited usage as all the other stats must stay the same (so only the armour of a unit can change in the reform).

Foot

[chenkai11]

Not really possible in most cases. This is because we cannot change a unit stats mid-game. The only exception to this is the armour upgrade, which not only changes the stats of a unit but also changes the model. But this has limited usage as all the other stats must stay the same (so only the armour of a unit can change in the reform).

Foot


That's great, so if I understand it right, for libyan spearmen reform, you will be able to upgrade the armour to represent the reformed unit?

[Foot]

No, because I didn't mention the libyan spearmen once at all, therefore it would be premature and unfounded to come to the conclusion that the libyan unit would use this above mechanic.

Foot

[chenkai11]

I understand. The libyan was just a sample I concluded that might be applied to the reformed unit.

Thanks for the answer, I can see EBII will have many surprises to come.

[wumpus]

Wumpus, if you can show me anyone (I mean anyone) who has ever played to 14AD I will... well I won´t believe you.
The only way I´d ever play to 14AD was if I got really addicted to a campaign. Seeing it suddenly end would be a true relief.

Actually, I can't show you anyone, Herr General, because I don't know of anyone who's so; but it would be a nice thing to keep in mind that I have plenty of time with which to take on the whole of Europe and Asia, because I like my campaigns to be taken slowly, deliberately, and to savor every moment of it. EB [0.8, 1.0, or 1.1] is meant to be a realistic simulation of empire-building, and the Roman Empire was able to limp along until well beyond A.D.500. Would asking for a little more time till A.D.100 (if it were possible to be built into the game) too much to ask? After all, I think if a campaign lasts until A.D.14 and beyond, the main problem is how to handle revolts and rebellions, and not just trying to conquer more lands or factions, and that would give a different [but interesting] flavor to one's game. I don't believe that it would be an addiction, but being more of satisfying one's thirst to prove to himself his true mettle.
And, actually, I don't play much of other games (although I do a little of them) than RTW and its derivatives (not even much of M:TW or M2TW); and to play a very long campaign until the unquestionable conclusion is, for me, total satisfaction.
Have a very good life ahead. Hawooh.

[Foytaz]

Q: Will rebellions\cicil\domestic wars be included in EB2? with the possibility for the player to choose the side?, eg. current rulling house in Ptolemaoi or Seleukia facing tons of troubles which causes instability and unrest and most powerful gov/gen is about to revolt and do so. Player should have possibility to choose the side like it was in MTW years ago.

[Foot]

Q: Will rebellions\cicil\domestic wars be included in EB2? with the possibility for the player to choose the side?, eg. current rulling house in Ptolemaoi or Seleukia facing tons of troubles which causes instability and unrest and most powerful gov/gen is about to revolt and do so. Player should have possibility to choose the side like it was in MTW years ago.

There is no current known way of doing this. There are things we can do to represent civil war, but we cannot allow the player to choose sides. Largely because we cannot allow the player to choose their heir.

Foot

[Foytaz]

There is no current known way of doing this. There are things we can do to represent civil war, but we cannot allow the player to choose sides. Largely because we cannot allow the player to choose their heir.

Foot

I recall in Medieval TW always if coup d'etat occured you've been asked: do you back the rebels???, so I thought it is possible in RTW/M2TW as well but apparently it is not. Anyways it'd be quite intriguing to have such option.

[General Appo]

Player should have possibility to choose the side like it was in MTW years ago.


Yeah...as you pointed out that was a MTW feature, not an MTW2 one. And you can´t add new features like that. But don´t blame CA. Love CA. I do. They created the platform for the greatest thing in existence.

[Foytaz]

They created the platform for the greatest thing in existence.

that's true!!!

[Cute Wolf]

What about horde factions in M2TW engine... will the Yuezhi Back? I love them very much...:yes:
And how about the aedui, averni, sweboz, casse, sauromatae, and saka, can play as horde faction?

I know a M2TW mod that allows the players to play as mongols / timurids... perhaps enlarging the map a bit, and place 3 stack of yuezhi in the extreme edge of the map...:2thumbsup:

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Yuezhi probably won't be in EB2, still too early to have them in any form.

Hording probably won't be used either, since it can't differenciate between being conquered and displaced. When Caesar took over Gaul, the entire populace didn't pick up and go elsewhere.

[Cute Wolf]

At least they can emergent as mongols and timurids.... historic enough, right?

[Ludens]

At least they can emergent as mongols and timurids.... historic enough, right?

It would be quite historical, but the team probably wants to use the faction slot for something that people can actually play. I suspect that, if we will be seeing the Yuezhi at all, it will be as a several stacks of rebels suddenly appearing in the east.

[Khazaar]

What are your thoughts complexitywise? Will you outdo EB1 in terms of complexity (meaning more Units, Traits, Regions, Strats etc.) or is that not possible/useful?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Some things are hardcoded and have a maximum amount, such as regions and units. EB1 has the max number of regions for RTW/M2TW and is nearing the max number of units. As far as traits, scripting, and such go, you can expect an even greater level of complexity compared to EB1.

[a completely inoffensive name]

... and is nearing the max number of units.

How close are you to the limit?

[Megas Methuselah]

How close are you to the limit?

Yeah, how close are you? Will there be enough for the new factios? And will the Augustans be cut off?

[JbG]

Can I ask if you have any plan of changing the multiplyers on the unit sizes. I would really love to play with higher unit sizes so I was thinking maybe you could make the multiplyers higher on Ultra unit size (or the equal) and just normal on the lower ones.

[Mithick666]

wich version of medieval II kingdoms we will need? v 1.03 or 1.05?

[Elcmar]

Largely because we cannot allow the player to choose their heir.

Foot

Is there any way to crack this - not being able to choose an heir really limits rp potential

[A Very Super Market]

Well, you can choose the person who becomes the heir, when the leader dies.

[DaciaJC]

I recently read the "Should the Augustan Reform be eliminated" poll-thread, and it seems as if the availability of unit slots is a present problem?

Is there an estimate of how many unit slots EB filled in RTW, and how many are left over? Apparently, M2 doesn't expand on the number of units available.

[Puupertti Ruma]

I recently read the "Should the Augustan Reform be eliminated" poll-thread, and it seems as if the availability of unit slots is a present problem?

Is there an estimate of how many unit slots EB filled in RTW, and how many are left over? Apparently, M2 doesn't expand on the number of units available.

If I recall correctly EBI used either 420 or 480 of the 512 unit slots available. They wanted to save some slots for EBII, but apparently they are re-evaluating every unit going to be included, so this "saving up the spaces" probably didn't matter. Which is ok, if you ask me...

[DaciaJC]

If I recall correctly EBI used either 420 or 480 of the 512 unit slots available. They wanted to save some slots for EBII, but apparently they are re-evaluating every unit going to be included, so this "saving up the spaces" probably didn't matter. Which is ok, if you ask me...

Wow. Strange of CA to offer ten extra faction slots but no more unit slots to match. :wall:

[a completely inoffensive name]

Wow. Strange of CA to offer ten extra faction slots but no more unit slots to match. :wall:

That's how they roll.

[Noddy The Beefy Egg]

Marcus, the word is actually medieval. Furthermore, good that you posted this, will avoid some unwanted questions.

Are you doing a Bosnian AAR for hoi2? A party called HAX

[Hax]

Huh, no I'm not.

[Kozu]

Will there be a hotseat campaign option in EBII? I would enjoy the mod much more if i could crush my friends at it too.

[Phalanx300]

Will there be more videos showing off units? Thats really the best way of showing a unit, those Hoplite, Thureophoroi and Peltastai Makedonikoi unit videos were great! :2thumbsup:

[Tux]

Will there be a hotseat campaign option in EBII? I would enjoy the mod much more if i could crush my friends at it too.
Sadly no, this is not possible since CA didn't added this feature in the main game so maybe in their next TW game.


Will there be more videos showing off units? Thats really the best way of showing a unit, those Hoplite, Thureophoroi and Peltastai Makedonikoi unit videos were great! :2thumbsup:
Maybe why not, it does take time to make them so only if those members have time they will be done. What I can say for sure is that nice and plentiful renders of them will be done.

Btw, you forgot the oxybeles...


If I recall correctly EBI used either 420 or 480 of the 512 unit slots available. They wanted to save some slots for EBII, but apparently they are re-evaluating every unit going to be included, so this "saving up the spaces" probably didn't matter. Which is ok, if you ask me...
Yeah well that also happened because of the reduced number of faction slots but now they will be more units, faction specific.

[Phalanx300]

Maybe why not, it does take time to make them so only if those members have time they will be done. What I can say for sure is that nice and plentiful renders of them will be done.

Btw, you forgot the oxybeles...


Ok good news, and forget them yes, though I must say I like the unit previews better. :sweatdrop:

[Tux]

Ok good news, and forget them yes, though I must say I like the unit previews better. :sweatdrop:
We all do.~:) Then you'll like the next preview which should be released in a couple of months.

[Phalanx300]

We all do.~:) Then you'll like the next preview which should be released in a couple of months.

Mmm, so does this mean the next preview will be in a couple of months? :clown:

[Majd il-Romani]

Well, you can choose the person who becomes the heir, when the leader dies.
wait a minute, you can? How?

[A Very Super Market]

I think it's in the FAQ. An official announcement, at least.

[Puupertti Ruma]

I think a little clarification is in order.

EB team has stated that it is in some clever way possible to choose which character becomes the next heir to the throne. Most probably this is by boosting his influence or some other trait which directly specifies the next heir. It is still impossible to change the heir.

So, if you have a leader Alexander, and his heir is Polymachos, you can't change the heir to be Aristoteles instead of Polymachos. The hardcoding makes it so Polymachos will be the next leader when Alexander dies, unless he dies before of course. But you can, with modding, specify that Aristoteles will be the next heir when Alexander dies, instead of some drunken lout that has spent all his life getting lover of beauty traits.

[Alexandros_III]

That is my biggest complaint about M2tw. I always hated it.

[Kozu]

[QUOTE=alin;2272647]Sadly no, this is not possible since CA didn't added this feature in the main game so maybe in their next TW game.QUOTE]

I already have other mods that play hotseat on the grand campaign it only requires that i use the kingdoms disc instead. ive seen it said that EB2 will be using kingdoms anyway surely it can be done here too?

[Tux]

I already have other mods that play hotseat on the grand campaign it only requires that i use the kingdoms disc instead. ive seen it said that EB2 will be using kingdoms anyway surely it can be done here too?
Ohh I see, I haven't played kingdoms(just a little M2TW) so I didn't knew that, thus my sorries of responding without knowing all the details...

Some of the other members should and will answer this, but theoreticaly it shouldn't cause any problems even with scripting.

[tls5669]

Ok I have a few questions

1. Will the ships be remodeled? Another mod I play a lot is Roma Surrectum, (sorry if another mod is not allowed to be mentioned) it has neat looking ships.

2. Will weapons be upgradeable?

3. Will religions be expanded? i.e In RS the Greeks and Romans got to chose from like ten different temple types. Referring to the question above if the Romans built a temple dedicated to Vulcan, or the Greeks to Hephaestus then weapons could be upgraded. If a temple for Neptune or Poseidon was created then ships being built there would get command stars at creation.

3. Will there be merchants?

4. Will there be priests? And do they have to walk around converting providences?

[Foot]

1 Yes

2. No. Their bonuses completely disrupt any balancing

3. Temples won't give unrealistic bonuses. Temples and the representation of God will be handled unlike vanilla or any other mod.

4 & 5. No. Although we may use them for other purposes.

Foot

[tls5669]

Thank god for 4&5 they were a PITA in MTW2.

[Sarkiss]

will hoplites be able to switch to a secondary weapon, a sword?

[Foot]

will hoplites be able to switch to a secondary weapon, a sword?

No, that is not possible given the limitations of the engine.

Foot

[Noddy The Beefy Egg]

Europa Barbarorum II FAQ



Q: Is EB2 going to be for the Kingdoms expansion?
A: Yes, EB2 will be designed for Kingdoms and will only work with the Kingdoms expansion.





I need kingdoms i cant download it it's illegal i need to buy it i wanna buy it

[Noddy The Beefy Egg]

1 Yes



4 & 5. No. Although we may use them for other purposes.

Foot

Double Post!

A proposal of Religions:
Roman Paganism
Druidism
Carthaginian Paganism
Greek Paganism
Zorastorianism
Hinduism?
Tengriism (Saka and Sauromatae only)
Bhuddism
Judaism (Only in Jewish regions)
I think that's it

[A Very Super Market]

Download it from Steam.

And there aren't that many religion slots. Besides which, they're annoying and innacurate.

[Noddy The Beefy Egg]

Download it from Steam.

And there aren't that many religion slots. Besides which, they're annoying and innacurate.

I can't buy it online were poor the recession obama is not fixing the economy
If i download it from steam can i mod it?

[A Very Super Market]

You can't afford it? There is no free, legal way to get it.

If you do download it from steam, you can mod it.

[A Very Super Market]

You can't afford it? There is no free, legal way to get it.

If you do download it from steam, you can mod it.

[Megas Methuselah]

I need kingdoms i cant download it it's illegal i need to buy it i wanna buy it

Well, it won't be released for a couple/few years. You can wait.


I can't buy it online were poor the recession obama is not fixing the economy
If i download it from steam can i mod it?

Lol, troll.

[Sarkiss]

No, that is not possible given the limitations of the engine.

Foot

too bad.

have you come up with Yervandid coat of arms yet?

[Foot]

too bad.

have you come up with Yervandid coat of arms yet?

There is no evidence left of what a Yervandid symbol may have looked like. With regards to the Hayasdan faction symbol I'm tempted by a horse and sun motif. We know that horses were revered amongst the Caucasian people, and were heavily associated with Mithra, who became very important very early on (he is recorded as early as Xenophon's Anabasis in Armenia). Then of course there is Anahita, the mother of Armenia and revered highly amongst the trinity of gods. However, I am not sure of any symbol associated with her, and given the importance of horses, both in daily life and religious symbolism, I'm more tempted by the horse motif.

Foot

[Sarkiss]

There is no evidence left of what a Yervandid symbol may have looked like. With regards to the Hayasdan faction symbol I'm tempted by a horse and sun motif. We know that horses were revered amongst the Caucasian people, and were heavily associated with Mithra, who became very important very early on (he is recorded as early as Xenophon's Anabasis in Armenia). Then of course there is Anahita, the mother of Armenia and revered highly amongst the trinity of gods. However, I am not sure of any symbol associated with her, and given the importance of horses, both in daily life and religious symbolism, I'm more tempted by the horse motif.

Foot

have you seen the coins of Yervand II depicting Sacred Pegasus? somewhat coincides with your horse idea.

[Bootsiuv]

Well, hello there everyone. Just checking in on my all time favorite mod. Been spending a lot of time playing FfH2 for Civ 4 recently.

Was going through my games and saw my Medieval disc, and thought I would see how things are going.

So, how's Glenn and his mischevious Eques? :P

[a completely inoffensive name]

The descendent's of your EB Tavern thread have been banished twice from the EB forums and are now flourishing well in the most active social group in all the org.

[Megas Methuselah]

The descendent's of your EB Tavern thread have been banished twice from the EB forums and are now flourishing well in the most active social group in all the org.

Indeed. God is on our side.

[Andros Antonius]

Looks like it's got a lot of potential to be another great game. I love EB so far. But when I first saw this, I thought it would be actually set in the Medieval era and not the same as the last one. I guess it's going to be somewhat different as far as gameplay even if the concept is the same. At least people with only M2TW will be able to enjoy the game then. Lookin forward to it.

[Mediolanicus]

I thought it would be actually set in the Medieval era and not the same as the last one.

That would require a totally different team, no? Since they are all specialists in the Classical/Hellenistic period.

[bovi]

At least people with only M2TW will be able to enjoy the game then.
Actually you need the Kingdoms expansion as well.

[Andy1984]

I was wondering whether the MIC-system still forces the team to give the same barracks to several factions? In EB1.2, both the Arche and the Ptolemeans had the same barracks, which I believe was part of the reason why an AI-controlled Arche collapses so quickly. If every faction would be given different barracks, the AI won't be able to blitz anymore, thereby improving the survival chances of AI-factions.

kind regards,

Andy

[bovi]

While I am not quite sure that we can have as many MIC types as we want, I think we can. Additionally, the recruitment of units can rely on several more mechanics than a mere MIC, as we have a lot more options available to us due to being able to script recruitment conditions with event counters.

We could now for instance say that a unit is only available in Bartixia if you have created a Megaclasmai Factory, Plasma Reservoir and Duck Pond there, the Zork reform has happened, Atlantis is controlled by the evil Godzilla faction, and the happiness level of Uranus is at least Content. Good times.

[bovi]

The EB 2 FAQ is *quite* not the place to discuss DRM. Discussion deleted. There have been other threads on our boards which can be reused, if someone feels they have new points to make (none of those made here are new).

[kuro570]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed already but I was wondering if EBII will still allow us to take generals hostage and be able be able to ransom him back to his faction for mnai? Also is it possible to be able to actually charge an amount or is it hardcoded that the cost be random?

Will EBII incorporate any new features like you give them back their general you can improve relations with that faction, kill them right off the bat and be hated etc. I for one think that the diplomacy in M2TW is much better and allows for some interesting faction relations and alliances not yet conceivable with the RTW engine.

[A Very Super Market]

What you described is essentially Vanilla M2's system for dealing with the spoils of battle. Namely, ransoming, executing, or releasing the prisoners you've taken.

[kuro570]

Yeah

[The General]

The funny thing is though that you only should be able to ransom nobles (not just FMs though, "noble" units too) as they were the only ones worth the money. Peasant levies etc. were usually killed on spot. (Concerning M(2):TW ransom mechancis)

[kuro570]

Either way ransom could be very profitable which is an even bigger reason to concentrate on winning for me, ransom and sack every city I encounter I'll stay rich forever with Rome lol

[A Very Super Market]

You aren't fabulously wealthy as the romans? How many Quinquiremes have you got?

[kuro570]

All my money go into fighting the Gauls, Aeverni, and Sweboz, or rather protect Patavium and Segesta which they seem to have taken a liking to and the rest goes to building since rebellions keep sprouting up every turn. ; ;

Atleast if I had the ransom feature I could probably make some money off of these battles lol

[Khan]

Sorry guys I have been away from EB for some time now, loved EB1 btw, I can see quite a lot of previews which is encouraging, are you fellas progressing at your desired pace?

[mirage41]

Hi,

I was wondering what are the EB teams plans for dealing with battlemap settlements and ambient structures? So far I believe no one has cracked the ability to edit the models for settlements I believe. How do you plan to deal with this since church spires and minarets in Rome or Babylon won't look very nice.

[WarpGhost]

Is EB2 going to take advantage of the M2TW feature that splits cities into Urban and Fortress pathways? If so, do we know how they're going to operate within the context of the mod?

[Foot]

Is EB2 going to take advantage of the M2TW feature that splits cities into Urban and Fortress pathways? If so, do we know how they're going to operate within the context of the mod?

Please take the time to read the previews. you will find what your answer in them.

Foot

[A Very Super Market]

If you had read a recent preview, you would learn that they are using the fortress path to simulate a nomadic province.

[WarpGhost]

Yes I'd seen that, but thats not what I was getting at. I could have worded my question better. In anycase, the answer is evidently no, its not being used to create an Urban/Fortress option, its been turned into a limited regional option. I wasnt sure it would work within the context of the ancient world and regionalised militaries, and it obviously hasnt been approached in anycase. Presumably then its hard-coded to only being a two-option mechanic anyway?

[ziegenpeter]

You aren't fabulously wealthy as the romans? How many Quinquiremes have you got?

Btw: Is the pirat spawn rate increased? And the AIs naval recruitment in general? Because once you killed of the enemy's ships in your area, you've got your peace on sea for the rest of the game and thus big fleets are quite useless.

[The General]

Presumably then its hard-coded to only being a two-option mechanic anyway?

It is.

[Tux]

Hi,

I was wondering what are the EB teams plans for dealing with battlemap settlements and ambient structures? So far I believe no one has cracked the ability to edit the models for settlements I believe. How do you plan to deal with this since church spires and minarets in Rome or Babylon won't look very nice.
We haven't spent too much man power there because of that but recently we have started working on battlefield building models since now it's possible to modify the settlement models and the only issue that remains is the pathfinding which has to be cracked.

[WinsingtonIII]

This question may be a bit (OK, maybe even really) premature, but I was wondering if the team was considering making EB2 a mod-foldered mod so that when you install the mod it does not directly modify the base files in the M2TW directory but instead has it's own mod-folder.

The reason I ask is because I remember that to install EB1 you had to have a clean install of RTW. Now, I do use one mod for M2TW (Chivalry II it's called), but it is mod-foldered so that the underlying files are unchanged, and therefore my M2TW is still technically a clean install, which is something I have tried to keep that way just in case EB2 requires a clean install. However, if EB2 directly overwrites the main directory files, this could mean that other mods (and vanilla if you really wanted to play it) would not function properly. Now, I'm obviously willing to sacrifice all other mods for the greatness that will be EB2, but I do enjoy medieval era mods sometimes, and it would be nice to be able to keep them. So, just a suggestion, if it's possible to mod-folder EB2 it would be nice, because then other mods could still function without strange problems.

[Foot]

EBI is mod-foldered, we don't effect any of the vanilla files. When it comes to EBII we will endeavour to make it mod-foldered. However it appears that at least one file needs to replace a vanilla file (the banner.xml one), however we will probably work on a start-up script that will copy our one over when you play and then replace it when you have finished.

Foot

[WinsingtonIII]

EBI is mod-foldered, we don't effect any of the vanilla files. When it comes to EBII we will endeavour to make it mod-foldered. However it appears that at least one file needs to replace a vanilla file (the banner.xml one), however we will probably work on a start-up script that will copy our one over when you play and then replace it when you have finished.

Foot

Oh OK, thanks for the information. For some reason I thought EB1 was not mod-foldered, I don't know where I got that idea. That's an interesting idea for working around the fact that one file needs to overwrite. Thanks again for letting me know.

[Andy1984]

I've got two questions and a suggestion regarding EBII, so here they are:

(1) My first question relates to the usage of four-horse chariots in battles. We know these chariots were used in parades and ceremonies. Montvert believes these chariots to be used at Magnesia, but his only source for this is Livius (who could hardly have been more informed about the battle than we are). Persians seem to have deployed four-horse chariots as well. I haven't found a credible source yet for the deployment of four-horse chariots, but if I will I'll let you know. My question is whether the EBII-team considers four-horse chariots? (RS has a four-horse chariot as unit.)

(2) Has the MTW2-engine or the Kingdoms-engine been known to retrain AI-units? In other words: are we likely to see an EBII-AI that retrains her units as well?

(3) My third is more a suggestion. In EBI, I didn't encounter that many truly impressive empires (apart from the ones at the start of the timeframe). While it is certainly true that Rome and her allies weren't bound to become the empire they would become, the Roman empire in my opinion demonstrates clearly that at least the administration, cohesion or any other factor of centralization could be found to turn one of the starting factions into an empire of the Roman size. I believe the reason why the AI in EBI fails to grow to these sizes is the following. Thanks to the wonderful moneyscript, each faction is capable to have at least some funds, with an average of 20.000/2=10.000 mnai to spend each turn. This enables smaller and poorer factions to build out their economy, hire some mercenaries and eventually forge their own mini-Hai or mini-Pontos empires. However: they hardly grow beyond a certain size, even if the player leaves them alone. This is because eventually, this 10.000 mnai on average isn't sufficient to construct buildings or to wage the multifront wars the Romani, the AS or even the owners of the Agean are engaged in. The bigger these empires, the more opponents to engage who have equally 10.000 mnai to spend on little more than mercenaries (since they have far less settlements, like Bactria).

If we add a minor adjustment to the money-script, this problem would be solved (that is: if the team believes this to be a problem). If we give each faction 20.000 mnai until their finances are positive, and an additional 500 mnai for each settlement owned on top of this already positive treasury, an AI would have on average 10.000 + 500*s to spend. This would be 11.000 for a two settlement faction (which enables them to do just anything they do in EBI), and a stunning 15.000 mnai for a 10-settlement faction. I believe this would enable AI-factions to grow to an even bigger size than they do now. It would also reflect the idea that bigger empires were capable to muster greater forces (whether mercenary or more soldier-like).

If the team is convinced empires of the Roman or Alexandrian size are too ahistorical for the given time-frame because of administrative or cohesion-related limitations, shouldn't these limitations be imposed by unrest due to the 'distance to capital' and related traits instead of financial limitations? This can be realized by giving fewer happiness-bonusses to buildings, which would make it harder for both the player and the AI to subdue far-away regions.

kind regards and thanks in advance,

Andy

[Ludens]

I can only reply to the third question. While I don't have EB installed on this computer, I know that the early versions of the money script did give a bonus per city. However, this made the silver/yellow death problem even worse. I am not sure how your solution will help start-up empires but not the existing ones. Secondly, you cannot draw conclusions about faction-expansion on the basis of EB1. The M2:TW strategic A.I. may not work the same, and there are many new options (and new factions) to consider.

[Andy1984]

I can only reply to the third question. While I don't have EB installed on this computer, I know that the early versions of the money script did give a bonus per city. However, this made the silver/yellow death problem even worse. I am not sure how your solution will help start-up empires but not the existing ones.
I didn't know the team already experimented with bonusses per city. Please discard the following text. I typed it earlier, but now realise it has certain major flaws in it. One of them being the fact that expanding empires already receive huge financial bonusses by looting big cities (which doesn't seem to pull off the empire-building I expected it to do). Therefore I believe this idea needs to be better worked out by me, before I can even hope to make a decent statement. I left the text so those interested could read it.


Even existing empires would not be sustainable for prolongued periods of time, because even existing empires will still have too limited resources when they start throwing away their money by depletion of the mercenary-pool in Sardinia. I believe the difference made is that factions that expand thanks to either luck or great generals are more likely to hold on temporarily to their resources because they now have some extra funds to do so. Existing empires would also benefit from it, but only in the short run. Because even for them, building ships or sending an army to Arabia is not going to rescue their empire. In the long run, it seems to be a matter of time before even the additional bonusses gained from cities are insufficient and factions start to overexpand... leading to a collapse. The higher the bonus per city given, the greater the variability of the size of (bigger) empires. The smaller this additional-city-bonus, or the bigger the standard amount of money each city gets, the smaller this variability.

These are issues not faced by smaller factions, as they tend to be the ones without military harbors, or without opportunities to place stacks without moving them (Southern-Italy, Southern-Iran, North-Africa, Arabia). Whatever the Lusotanni or Bactria do in the beginning of the game, they'll almost immediately benefit from it. If they initiate a construction, this will add to their demographic growth or to the quality of units trained. If they deplete some mercenary pool, these mercenaries will be standing next to their capital and close to the target they'll attack. Smaller factions, or at least factions that can't build ships, seem to be run more efficiently by the AI. Hence my idea to compensate for it. But it will be a subtle balancing, that's for sure.


Secondly, you cannot draw conclusions about faction-expansion on the basis of EB1. The M2:TW strategic A.I. may not work the same, and there are many new options (and new factions) to consider.
You're right. We should wait and see how factions in EB2 behave. In the mean-time I can experiment with different money-scripts in EB1.

kind regards,

Andy

[mydognamedrikki]

Dont know if this was asked or answered, but will the Kingdoms, Steam Version of the game work with this mod

[XSamatan]

It will. You will have to break the launcher, meaning it might be difficult to play several mods at teh same time, but it will work just as the 'real' version.

XSamatan

[Chelovyek]

Is the original EB music going to be kept for EBII? Is it likely that any new music will be added?

[Ludens]

It's not easy to find skilled musicians that are willing to donate their work, so the original music will be kept. I assume the team will try to add new music, but I don't think that is a priority.

[Balbor]

If we add a minor adjustment to the money-script, this problem would be solved (that is: if the team believes this to be a problem). If we give each faction 20.000 mnai until their finances are positive, and an additional 500 mnai for each settlement owned on top of this already positive treasury, an AI would have on average 10.000 + 500*s to spend. This would be 11.000 for a two settlement faction (which enables them to do just anything they do in EBI), and a stunning 15.000 mnai for a 10-settlement faction. I believe this would enable AI-factions to grow to an even bigger size than they do now. It would also reflect the idea that bigger empires were capable to muster greater forces (whether mercenary or more soldier-like).

If the team is convinced empires of the Roman or Alexandrian size are too ahistorical for the given time-frame because of administrative or cohesion-related limitations, shouldn't these limitations be imposed by unrest due to the 'distance to capital' and related traits instead of financial limitations? This can be realized by giving fewer happiness-bonusses to buildings, which would make it harder for both the player and the AI to subdue far-away regions.

kind regards and thanks in advance,

Andy

Stainless Steel uses a money script to give the AI extra help but it's not without its problems. I've found many factions are always bankrupt, even though they are getting loads of extra money, this is because they cannot afford the upkeep of there armies but at the start of each turn they are given more money to recruit more units, so they get into a never ending cycle. Using Spy and assassins to destroy the infostructure of settlements or blockading busy ports becomes pointless and ineffective as they don't any any money anyway except for the start of there turn and they spend it automaticlly. This might not be a problem with EB2 if the recruit refresh times are increased (to represent the 4 turns per year as oppsosed to 1 turn per year) and reduce the number of recruitment slots (3 max should really be enough) that way the factions won't be able to chrun out 20+ units every turn and its cash reserves would be able to build up.

I'm pritty sure he AI does retrain units in M2TW. They always seem to bring units up to full strengh if they are in a plague infected city.

[Balbor]

will settlement upgrades be linked to the walls like they are in M2TW, I hope not as i like the idea of huge settlements with basic walls

[XSamatan]

I doubt this can be made, IIRC there is atm nobody in the mod-sphere capable of doing this.

XSamatan

[Balbor]

I doubt this can be made, IIRC there is atm nobody in the mod-sphere capable of doing this.

XSamatan

so all huge cities will have massive walls? :(

[Foot]

so all huge cities will have massive walls? :(

Sort of. They don't have to, but to attack them you need to get suitable siege equipment for the wall that they are set to have. However, if you take away the wall bonus the walls won't actually appear on the battlemap, iirc.

Foot

[Balbor]

Sort of. They don't have to, but to attack them you need to get suitable siege equipment for the wall that they are set to have. However, if you take away the wall bonus the walls won't actually appear on the battlemap, iirc.

Foot

So on the campaign map the walls are there as far as the game is concerned and it won't let you attack without correct equipment or open doors?

Can the Wall bonuses be applied to another building to allow a settlement with fake walls build them later on?

Another building/settlement question.

Is it possible for 2 different building to give bonuses to different religion conversion? So building 1 is converting religion 1 by +15% and building 2 is converting religion 2 at 10%, so overall religion 1 is converting 5% of the population.

[Foot]

So on the campaign map the walls are there as far as the game is concerned and it won't let you attack without correct equipment or open doors?

Yes.


Can the Wall bonuses be applied to another building to allow a settlement with fake walls build them later on?

Yes


Another building/settlement question.

Is it possible for 2 different building to give bonuses to different religion conversion? So building 1 is converting religion 1 by +15% and building 2 is converting religion 2 at 10%, so overall religion 1 is converting 5% of the population.

Yes, if you fudge it. A building of one type of religion will be destroyed if the settlement is conquered by a faction of another religion, so this couldn't be done mid-game (though I can't recall how the game handles hinterland buildings and this feature). However, it would only give an overal bonus of 5% if there were only two religions. However, this isn't something that we could reasonably do in game due to the auto-destruct nature of "religious" buildings.

Foot

[Balbor]

Yes, if you fudge it. A building of one type of religion will be destroyed if the settlement is conquered by a faction of another religion, so this couldn't be done mid-game (though I can't recall how the game handles hinterland buildings and this feature). However, it would only give an overal bonus of 5% if there were only two religions. However, this isn't something that we could reasonably do in game due to the auto-destruct nature of "religious" buildings.

Foot

Is it possible for a factions building list to include building for different religions conversion, or is religion hard coded to give a bonues to what ever the settlements controlling factions religion is?

[QuintusSertorius]

Is someone going to update the question about factions with the Getai, Qart-Hadast and Romani?

[B-Wing]

Is it possible for a factions building list to include building for different religions conversion, or is religion hard coded to give a bonues to what ever the settlements controlling factions religion is?

I can't remember exactly how it works, but I do believe it is impossible for a settlement to have religious buildings that differ from the owner faction's. I read somewhere on a thread about the mechanics of religion in M2TW that opposing religious buildings are automatically destroyed when a different religion takes over.

[QuintusSertorius]

I was looking again at the February Preview (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=113007), in particular the hoplites. Has the problem of secondary weapons for hoplites been fixed in EB2? As in do hoplite units now have swords as secondary weapons once again?

An unrelated point, but how easy is it to do a migrated faction game in the M2:TW engine? Are the console commands the same? While there's no need to do an Pergamene (or Bosphoran) one now, I quite like playing as Kyrene, which isn't a faction.

[QuintusSertorius]

What are the system requirements for EBII? I'll be needing to get a new computer anyway, since I can't run M2:TW on this old rig, what should I be aiming for? Should I be avoiding the 64-bit O/S like the plague (given all the problems they seem to cause EBI)?

[bobbin]

I have vista 64 and it runs fine.

I don't think we can give a system requirements as it isn't finished yet although as of now it runs perfect with maxed out settings on my 3Ghz E8400, 4gb ram & 512mb ati HD4870.

[QuintusSertorius]

The funny thing is though that you only should be able to ransom nobles (not just FMs though, "noble" units too) as they were the only ones worth the money. Peasant levies etc. were usually killed on spot. (Concerning M(2):TW ransom mechancis)

In Hellenistic warfare, it wasn't just nobles who might be spared. Mercenaries in particular might be hired by the army who captured them, if they were good.

[Ca Putt]

(trolling a bit): what about levies and kleucheroi? I presume It'd be much more profitable to main tain them as farmers as their loyalities are not as close as that of higher ranks.(note this is a question)
concerning the ransom mechanism, ransoming mercs(and not the odd pezhetairos, princeps, Dugunth(damn singular), Steppe rider etc.) would not really make sence tho.

[QuintusSertorius]

(trolling a bit): what about levies and kleucheroi? I presume It'd be much more profitable to main tain them as farmers as their loyalities are not as close as that of higher ranks.(note this is a question)
concerning the ransom mechanism, ransoming mercs(and not the odd pezhetairos, princeps, Dugunth(damn singular), Steppe rider etc.) would not really make sence tho.

A significant proportion of those fighting in Hellenistic armies on both sides were mercenaries. They knew the business of war and could be counted on to perform all the boring tasks that make up campaigning. They would fight as much as they needed to, and no more. There were campaigns won by simply buying the other side, rather than fighting them.

Given they were on both sides (friends, relatives and other family on different sides of the battle), and their loyalties were interchangeable, it didn't make sense to alienate them by executing them. How then might the mercs in your own service feel, if your enemies extended the same courtesy to them in the event they were captured?

[Ca Putt]

no, I know that. I asked: waht about peasants, as they may not be hired on the field by the winner but may hae been usefull to cultiate the conquered land.
with it does not make sence to ransom them I did not mean that they'd be executed but that paying ransom for mercs is rather strange. don't always think the other one is opposing you, that makes conversation much more annoying and much less fun ;)

[QuintusSertorius]

no, I know that. I asked: waht about peasants, as they may not be hired on the field by the winner but may hae been usefull to cultiate the conquered land.
with it does not make sence to ransom them I did not mean that they'd be executed but that paying ransom for mercs is rather strange. don't always think the other one is opposing you, that makes conversation much more annoying and much less fun ;)

I agree, killing the men who'd be tilling your new conquests doesn't make a lot of sense. In wars between "civilised" powers, I expect prisoners were taken and executing them was seen as bad form.

[QuintusSertorius]

I someone going to update the stickied previews thread, and the first page of this one with the new info?

[Foot]

no, I know that. I asked: waht about peasants, as they may not be hired on the field by the winner but may hae been usefull to cultiate the conquered land.
with it does not make sence to ransom them I did not mean that they'd be executed but that paying ransom for mercs is rather strange. don't always think the other one is opposing you, that makes conversation much more annoying and much less fun ;)

Doesn't make any difference. Ransom mechanics are not modifiable in the way that would be necessary to tweak it correctly. Its not worth worrying about.

Foot

[Ca Putt]

well I' fine with that, it acutally was more of a history than gameplay question. hence the trolling warning :D

[QuintusSertorius]

Are any of the factions which have already been previewed going to get as much detail as the Lugiones did? I'm thinking Pergamon in particular, being the faction I'm most interested in. Its preview looks rather cursory now, by comparison.

[Foot]

In game, they will be certainly be getting as much detail. However when it comes to previews, we won't be going over the same territory twice. Previews are there to show off what we have achieved so far, and we won't be spending time to make them all as extensive and extraordinary as this.

Foot

[Populus Romanus]

I read the the Europa Barbarorum team was going to be rearranging many province borders, and I had an idea for Italy. The region of Samnium was always very distinct from its neighboring areas, and is not included in EB. I was thinking that perhaps this province could be added in EB2. I know that the Europa Barbarorum team is already strapped for privinces, and other areas probably need representation more direly, but if possible, could this be addressed?

[sevenfaces423]

Question: Will there be a "beta test"? and if so, how could one sign up? I'd really like to, since EB has taken up more of my time than almost anything else this past month.

[QuintusSertorius]

I have vista 64 and it runs fine.

I don't think we can give a system requirements as it isn't finished yet although as of now it runs perfect with maxed out settings on my 3Ghz E8400, 4gb ram & 512mb ati HD4870.

Is 4GB RAM likely to be the recommended (as 2GB is recommended for EB right now) amount? Is all that script-processing memory-intensive?

[vollorix]

Has anyone yet tested SSDs instead of using a classical harddisc? I mean, a system is only as fast as the slowest part, right?

[bobbin]

Hard drive access speeds really don't really make any noticeable difference to performance in computer games. RAM, GPU and CPU are the main factors.


Is 4GB RAM likely to be the recommended (as 2GB is recommended for EB right now) amount? Is all that script-processing memory-intensive?

I think we at too early a stage to make such a recommendation, I'll just say that right now it runs perfect with my set up.
Because of better scripting commands your average EBII script will be less intensive than a similar EB one, but we will be doing more with EBII so they will probably balance out.

[QuintusSertorius]

Fair enough. I've actually got a new machine now, an Acer Aspire Revo 3600; RAM is easily upgradeable (I can get to 6GB cheaply, currently has 2GB), but the rest I think is fixed. Reasonable graphics card, but the processor is Intel Atom 330 (two 1.6Ghz cores). It's not really designed as a gaming machine (though it's markedly better than my previous), so I'm wondering if I'll end up needing a beefier proper desktop when EBII appears. I can't even run EB with all the graphical options maxed out on it.

[vollorix]

I asked about the SSD because when i´m playing EB there seems to me like kind of delays when loading the campaign maps after the battles, for example. And it´s exactly, when the most CTD accure in my games. For shooter games it might be not of interest, but with all the stuff installed on the hard disc, the data folders must be read etc. i somehow suspect that strategy games would run more smoothly, especially the heavy scripted EB. Since i don´t have a SSD yet, i thought, someone on the dev team might have tried it out. It needs a test, but since my pc is too old to integrate that new technology ( or would be at least not really efficient ), i´d wait till i´ll have to buy the new one. And i suspect, i´d need it to play EB2 to my full satisfaction ;)

[bobbin]

Thats a issue with the way RTW handles RAM, its got nothing to do with your hard drive. I seriously doubt you will see any noticable performance increase, your money would be better spent on a better graphics card or more RAM.


Fair enough. I've actually got a new machine now, an Acer Aspire Revo 3600; RAM is easily upgradeable (I can get to 6GB cheaply, currently has 2GB), but the rest I think is fixed. Reasonable graphics card, but the processor is Intel Atom 330 (two 1.6Ghz cores). It's not really designed as a gaming machine (though it's markedly better than my previous), so I'm wondering if I'll end up needing a beefier proper desktop when EBII appears. I can't even run EB with all the graphical options maxed out on it.

Your CPU might hold you back a bit, M2TW doesn't support multicores as far as I know, so it will only use one of your cores, giving you in effect a single 1.6Ghz processor.

[QuintusSertorius]

Your CPU might hold you back a bit, M2TW doesn't support multicores as far as I know, so it will only use one of your cores, giving you in effect a single 1.6Ghz processor.

Ah, makes sense. Presumably R:TW doesn't support them either, which would explain why there isn't much difference between old and new machine playing EB.

[bobbin]

Correct.

[QuintusSertorius]

Did I read correctly somewhere that the map is bigger (in terms of size, not number of provinces) in M2:TW? So we'd get bigger (and more detailed?) provinces?

[XSamatan]

Yes, the map will be 1.3x the size of EB1

[adishee]

Fair enough. I've actually got a new machine now, an Acer Aspire Revo 3600; RAM is easily upgradeable (I can get to 6GB cheaply, currently has 2GB), but the rest I think is fixed. Reasonable graphics card, but the processor is Intel Atom 330 (two 1.6Ghz cores). It's not really designed as a gaming machine (though it's markedly better than my previous), so I'm wondering if I'll end up needing a beefier proper desktop when EBII appears. I can't even run EB with all the graphical options maxed out on it.

For some reason, M2TW runs far better than RTW on my latest computer. It's very weird.

[fomalhaut]

The actual playing of the game (campaign and battle) i'm sure will be on par with MTWII as far as performance goes, but will the scripts cause a huge performance drop during the turn change like in EBI? Or is the MTWII infrastructure much more efficient and doesn't destroy performance as much?

MTWII runs perfect for me and turns change in about 3 seconds, but even AlexEB takes about 30 seconds for turns for me.

[bobbin]

Scripting in M2TW is a lot more efficient, but then we are doing a lot more with it than in EB so it's hard to say.

[fomalhaut]

hopefully it doesn't get to Stainless Steel levels, where it literally takes about 3 minutes for a change in turn for me and i know it's not just me, many stopped playing because of that. I trust the EB team though!

[fightermedic]

hopefully it doesn't get to Stainless Steel levels, where it literally takes about 3 minutes for a change in turn for me and i know it's not just me, many stopped playing because of that. I trust the EB team though!

yea as great as SS is that really kills the game for me :(

[QuintusSertorius]

I can't say I'm bothered about how long the between-turn processing is; if we get a really deep, detailed experience then its worth it, IMO.

I'm really looking forward to the Gaza campaign, is there any more detail on what it will involve? Will it be a limited-scope campaign with two factions and something like 20 turns? Or just a collection of battles?

EDIT: The preview stele of long ago says you have to play as Ptolemy; is that still the plan?

[Satyros]

will hoplites be able to switch to a secondary weapon, a sword?
No, that is not possible given the limitations of the engine.

Foot

Oh man ..

:sad2:

Satyros

[tanker]

Oh man ..

:sad2:

Satyros
Isn't that everyone's gripe about the pikes in the unmodded game?

[fomalhaut]

I read that the concept of the Syrakusan Hoplite as a unique unit was not exactly well supported? Even with that, will the Hoplites of Syrakuse still have a very unique skin at least? I think many would agree that they are one of the best looking units in the game, the bronze/blue color scheme with the shield design was very cool.

[Populus Romanus]

I wouldn't be too sad to see them go, if means that new factions get enough units.

[Ptolemaios]

I don´t know if this has ever been adressed before but are you going to make Northerneuropean soldiers larger than their Mediterranian counterparts. I have no idea how hard this is to do, but I think it´s possible since you are already altering the sizes of the different horses used in the ancient world (Like to be seen in the Pritanoi preview). It would be just a nice bit of detail adding to this already awesome work.

[sareth]

yo!

demand will probably been asked a million times ... but when it comes out? I'm not in the skin

p.s. This is my first msg, thanks to everyone for the tremendous work you do for free

[B-Wing]

No time soon, sareth. There will however be some sort of mini-campaign that functions like a tutorial which will be released before the first full release. No idea how soon that may be.

[Qvintvs]

I am extremely surprised and amazed that the question "when it comes out?" is not in the FAQ. Please put it up there...

[Tuuvi]

I am extremely surprised and amazed that the question "when it comes out?" is not in the FAQ. Please put it up there...

The reason it's not up there is because there is no definite release date. (I'm guessing I'm not on the team)

[Horatius Flaccus]

Yes, but I thin Qvintvs point is that it should say "when it's done" in the FAQ, so you will have less people asking for a release date. Don't think that it will really help, though.

[bobbin]

Q: When will EB2 be released?
A: Although research and concepting from Europa Barbarorum can be used for Europa Barbarorum II, all unit have to be remade. This will take a large amount of time and an accurate estimate of a release date cannot yet be ascertained. If you can model/skin units in M2TW and want to help us finish EB2 quicker, visit the Recruitment Thread and tell us what you can do.

It's already in there.

[fomalhaut]

you can't really blame them(us), it's going to be a very high quality product and people are just quite excited for it. I for one look forward to it more than any other game.

[Qvintvs]

Will EBII have it's own campaign AI? I really hope it will, because then it will be, like, the best AI ever! :D

[Populus Romanus]

I would like to see it that if you enter the territory of a neutral state or an ally without having military access that there is an automatic declaration of war. That would actually make military access worth something for once. Furthermore, it makes sense. To accompany this, perhaps the AI could be made to value military access much more highly?

[Foot]

I would like to see it that if you enter the territory of a neutral state or an ally without having military access that there is an automatic declaration of war. That would actually make military access worth something for once. Furthermore, it makes sense. To accompany this, perhaps the AI could be made to value military access much more highly?

In what way is this even a question, let alone a Frequently Asked one. Please use post appropriately in pre-existing threads.

Foot

[bobbin]

I would like to see it that if you enter the territory of a neutral state or an ally without having military access that there is an automatic declaration of war. That would actually make military access worth something for once. Furthermore, it makes sense. To accompany this, perhaps the AI could be made to value military access much more highly?

I would be possible but I doubt the AI would deal with it very well, they would probably be triggering wars all the time. Like Foot said though, this isn't really the right thread for requests.

[Populus Romanus]

In what way is this even a question, let alone a Frequently Asked one. Please use post appropriately in pre-existing threads.

Foot

It is a question in that I am stating what I would like to see and leaving it up to you to answer if it will or will not be. And if I am not mistaken, this is the thread that you post questions that do not warrant their own thread.

[Foot]

1. Stating a desire does not a question make.
2. FAQ stands for Frequently Asked Questions. Your desire is not a frequently asked question.

Once again, please use these forums appropriately. If you have an idea or suggestion (your post was both of these) then please post it in its own thread or in a thread that already includes other similar suggestions. Its an interesting idea, and may well generate a discussion, one which I would rather not have clogging up this thread.

Foot

[Ca Putt]

you could have posted it here: What are the main things you want to see fixed from EB1 in EB2??? (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?128072-What-are-the-main-things-you-want-to-see-fixed-from-EB1-in-EB2/page10)

that's the appropriate thread. but I would like to add that the AI does get quite upset when you enter their territory in M2TW, they do not immediately declare war but they get pissed off. - in my first game I played HRE and by moveing my FL into the empire, I got a declaration of war from the Milanese :(
what I'd howeer find nice would be that the AI would honor the players Territory, or at least give a dialogue option to get them out(diplomat)

[B-Wing]

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous that you can lose standing with an AI faction for passing through a corner of their territory, but they'll walk all over yours. But I'd be willing to bet that this sort of thing can't be modded.

[QuintusSertorius]

Right, I actually do have some money to buy a new rig, so which of these things is better (I can mix and match them):
Graphics card: Sapphire HD6750 OR ATI Radeon 6770
Processor: AMD Phenom II x4 955 3.2GHz OR AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4GHz
RAM: 8GB DDR3 - should that be enough?

My tech expert tells me I should be installing the game on an SSD hard drive so it loads much faster; is that going to be the case?

[bobbin]

Well the second options for your graphics card and processors are the better choices, it depends how much money you want to spend. For ram 8gb is more than enough.

I'm unconvinced about using SSD's to improve gaming perfromance, they seem to be a bit OT for most peoples needs. Yes they are faster than normal HD's but AFAIK the gain you would get probably isn't worth the cost.

EBII runs perfectly on my 3Ghz C2D with 4Gb RAM and ATI HD4850 graphics card, so anything you go for will be able to handle it with ease. One more thing I will say is that you will need to buy a 64bit OS if you are going to have more than 4GB of RAM, this is because 32bit OS's cannot use more than that.

[americanu197]

Will it be ready this year?
I think thats a FAQ addressed in a sensible manner

[Hax]

Will EBII have it's own campaign AI? I really hope it will, because then it will be, like, the best AI ever! :D

I think so. Maybe not in the first release, but there will certainly be a proper campagin AI.

[B-Wing]

I don't remember who exactly, but a team member did state recently that he expected the first release to be sometime in 2012.

[Tauern]

When will EB II be released? I read about december 2011.

[Ptolemaios]

There is no fix date for the release. As I recall the team said sometime next year, but don´t expect it too soon.

[Ca Putt]

Most rumors point to a release in 2012. But keep in mind that some time before there will be a release of the fullversion they will release the Gaza campaign. So I assume the Gaza campaign will come 2012 and let's see when the rest comes ;D

[Stark]

Will hotseat be supported for EB2?

EDIT - I just saw this was asked before, but no team member answered it.

[victorbritesp]

With license, I do not know if already they had asked but at the time where the EBII goes to treat itself, will have the participation of the Hebrew people (Israeli) with the culture and the religion of them? If the reply it will be why do not go to make this? debtor!

[Moros]

With license, I do not know if already they had asked but at the time where the EBII goes to treat itself, will have the participation of the Hebrew people (Israeli) with the culture and the religion of them? If the reply it will be why do not go to make this? debtor!
I'm sorry but I do not understand what you are trying to ask. So if you could rephrase, I'll try to give it another go.

On the hotseat question. As far as I know it hasn't been on our agenda. Perhaps it will be in the future.

[victorbritesp]

Sorry, I am brasilian! i use the "google tradutor"

----- Portuguese

Oque estou querendo saber é: É possível que vocês coloquem no EBII o povo hebreu (povo de israel, judeus e etc)? Com a cultura e a religião deles...

Por exemplo, para o nome do Deus dele vocês poderiam colocar alguns Deuses pagãos (Baal etc...) e Yahew (yeshua... etc)

Oque vocês acham? You can use the system for certain buildings to choose gods as it was in RTW?

Consegue me entender agora?

---------------------------------------------- In English

I'm wondering if it's possible that you put in EBII the Hebrew people (people of Israel, Jews, etc.)? With the culture and their religion ...

For example, for the name of his God you could put some Pagan gods (Baal etc ...) and Yahew (yeshua. etc. ..)

WHAT do you think?

Can you understand me now?

Tranks

[Moros]

Sorry, I am brasilian! i use the "google tradutor"

----- Portuguese

Oque estou querendo saber é: É possível que vocês coloquem no EBII o povo hebreu (povo de israel, judeus e etc)? Com a cultura e a religião deles...

Por exemplo, para o nome do Deus dele vocês poderiam colocar alguns Deuses pagãos (Baal etc...) e Yahew (yeshua... etc)

Oque vocês acham? You can use the system for certain buildings to choose gods as it was in RTW?

Consegue me entender agora?

---------------------------------------------- In English

I'm wondering if it's possible that you put in EBII the Hebrew people (people of Israel, Jews, etc.)? With the culture and their religion ...

For example, for the name of his God you could put some Pagan gods (Baal etc ...) and Yahew (yeshua. etc. ..)

WHAT do you think?

Can you understand me now?

Tranks
Ah yes. I understand what you mean now.

The Hebrew people were not an independent at this point so we can't include them as a faction it wouldn't be until about hundred years later until they revolted against Antiochus IV. They will be represented as much as any other region though. Possibly there will be regional units, but they will not appear in the first release. They will of course be mentioned in the relevant province description and other relevant descriptions and game elements. An own faction would however be in outright conflict with our criteria and history.

Their religion was peculiar for the age, certainly. Frowned upon even. Will it be included in possible game mechanics and descriptions? Sure if relevant. Not directly sure when and where, but it will probably be rather limited.

Temples will of course be present and again one can opt between a few gods to build a temple for and the effects will be related to the deity chosen.

[victorbritesp]

But remember that at that time, had the entire civilized world, some non-Jewish converts to Judaism!

Could you put to the factions of asia minor, and Egypt and other factions of africa - asia the option of temples to the god of the Jews?

What about the year 0? will have some event that depicts the birth of Christ?

Thank you!

Because I am a Christian, and I think that Christians would like to put the participation of our true God in the game! it may seem silly, but ... Sometimes I get behind the foot having to build temples to bacco ... or Jupiter, or even nirod when they could make space by the "yahew" .... understand?

[bobbin]

But remember that at that time, had the entire civilized world, some non-Jewish converts to Judaism!
Not that many though, at the time it was a minor region which only held importance in Judea and the few places that had large Jewish populations (eg Alexandreia).


Could you put to the factions of asia minor, and Egypt and other factions of africa - asia the option of temples to the god of the Jews?
We won't be doing that, there is no evidence that I know of for any of our factions erecting Jewish temples or supporting the Jewish religion, the best anyone did was to not interfere in Jewish religious matters.


What about the year 0? will have some event that depicts the birth of Christ?
When that event happened it went unnoticed by the world. Even in Judea Jesus was unknown until he started to preach in his 30s. SO no there will not be a special event.



Because I am a Christian, and I think that Christians would like to put the participation of our true God in the game! it may seem silly, but ... Sometimes I get behind the foot having to build temples to bacco ... or Jupiter, or even nirod when they could make space by the "yahew" .... understand
We won't be doing that, it would not be historically correct, Judaism no matter how much influence it has had since, was a minor religion at the time and mostly limited to Judea. Even among the Jews it was not universally practised. You are more than welcome to try and create a temple to Yahweh sub mod when EBII is released though.

We will keep the Temple in Jerusalem as a wonder and make destroying it increase unrest in the region significantly, but beyond that I don't think there is anything else we would do.

[victorbritesp]

You are more than welcome to try and create a temple to Yahweh sub mod when EBII is released though.

sorry, but I did not understand What you meant to say

[bobbin]

I meant that when EBII is released you could try and edit the game to create a new temple for Yahweh for yourself.

[victorbritesp]

hammm!

yeah! can be...

you know when the EBII will be released? have a aproximally date?

[Moros]

you know when the EBII will be released? have a aproximally date?

That question is asked above and is in the faq. The answer is no we do not have a release date, sorry.

[JohnS]

I was wondering how things were progressing. I also know this can get annoying with people asking questions. I guess what would help if we got an update from time to time so we wouldn't have to bother asking such questions.

[Arjos]

I guess what would help if we got an update from time to time so we wouldn't have to bother asking such questions.

What (http://twitter.com/#!/ebteam)

are (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?106937-All-the-Previews-In-One-Thread)

you (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?140870-Preview-Arabia)

babbling (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?235-Europa-Barbarorum-II)

about? (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=454)

[King Chris]

Firstly I apologize if this is in the wrong place.

In MTW2 the ability to see the upgrade of armor is pretty cool.

(I build a leather tanner, retrain troops, and they have an increased defense, AND wear the leather on the battlefield)

Is his going to be implemented in EBII in any way?

Thanks

[Arjos]

Is his going to be implemented in EBII in any way?

Yes, it will be used to depict eras: early, middle and late...

[JMRC]

Right. But those eras correspond to Reforms, which can occur under specific situations. Basically, the upgraded units are available after those Reform events and not by buildings.

[King Chris]

Ah, I see, thanks.

As the previews go its looking good, keep it up!

[King Chris]

Again sorry.

I often play Stainless Steel 6.4 at the moment, and like the way they have incorporated:

a) The added gore mod
b) All faction families have surname.

If its possible to spill, will either of these be added to EBII? I understand the surnames may be harder as I know you like your detail, and it may not always be available. Especially that far back.

[Moros]

a) Tux has doing great work on blood and dust textures.
b) That was already part of EB, where applicable.

[King Chris]

Thanks again.
For me they add another small layer that makes it much more appealing to see a bloodied unit make it out of battle.
And i may suffer from ruling family OCD :shrug:

[Satyros]

Is the mod going to be released in a finished version (1.XX) or will it be more like EB1 with its "beta" (0.XX ) releases for the general public ?

Satyros

[Tux]

Is the mod going to be released in a finished version (1.XX) or will it be more like EB1 with its "beta" (0.XX ) releases for the general public ?

Satyros

It'll be similar to EB1, however we hope to solve more of the CTD issues from the start compared to what happened to EB1.
And that may be quite possible since M2TW is more stable than RTW was.
I apologize for the late response.

[Satyros]

No need to apologize , thank you for answering .

We are still waiting , we will wait as long as it takes .

Never fear about our loyalty .

I will buy a new PC to enjoy EB2 at the most sick level of detailed awesomeness .

I hope you guys are all well .

Satyros

[Goreuncle]

Hi people! I don't mean to be rude but...
Why do you keep developing this mod after so many years? This mod seems already obsolete to me.
The way I see it, when EBII finally comes out few people will want to play it. Don't get me wrong, I love and admire EB and I still play it from time to time...but with Rome 2 coming I don't see the point of this mod anymore.
I bet people is starting to think about EBIII (based on Rome 2).

Take care!

[Kival]

I don't care much fore Rome 2; I'd still love to play EB 2, though.

[Ailfertes]

Hi people! I don't mean to be rude but...
Why do you keep developing this mod after so many years? This mod seems already obsolete to me.
The way I see it, when EBII finally comes out few people will want to play it. Don't get me wrong, I love and admire EB and I still play it from time to time...but with Rome 2 coming I don't see the point of this mod anymore.
I bet people is starting to think about EBIII (based on Rome 2).

Take care!

I don't agree at all. EB II will almost certainly be much more worked out in aspects of historical accuracy, difficulty, roleplaying aspects, traits, and gameplay mechanisms such as leaders and families, nomadism and settlement, building development, provincial government, ...
Rome 2 will look better, have better animations, and probably have some innovative aspects. But Rome 2 will be all about war. EB II will be all about the world you play in. Which IMHO has much more appeal. I will be bored with Rome 2 very early on. I will be able to keep playing EB II for years, as I have been playing EB for years.

[JMRC]

I bet people is starting to think about EBIII (based on Rome 2).
There is no garantee that RTW2 will allow modifications on it. It will probably follow the path of its predecessors and allow only a minimal degree of visual changes and that's it. So, most probably, MTW2 will continue to be the last TW game to allow a reasonable level of modifications. As such, if you want to make a mod which better represents this period in History, you have to do it with MTW2, even if obsolete.

[Ca Putt]

Good points lads, good points.

I'd like to add one point that while it may sound a bit silly to 9out of 10 gamers I think does help the download numbers of EB2:

R2TW will have much higher requirements and many people who "do mods" are reluctant to upgrade their rig. Thus while EB2 runs on all reasonably gamey machines people have out there R2TW will force some people to get anew rig, while this does not scare hardcore fans, Modusers will reassess: cost(R2TW)=50$+1000$=1050$=a lot, cost(EB2)=0$+10(in case they do not have M2TW yet)$=10$=not much.
And frankly M2TW actually is a reasonably pretty game(well apart from those horrid vanilla skins that are replaced by EB) it has mixed units, and a ok poly count. while one could say RTW is just soo horrid(all units look the same) that one needs to upgrade the same is not true for M2TW. R2TW will surely be much prettier and have some fancy features that EB2 will sorely lack(naval warfare and realistic strat map rivers in particular) but It's not like EB would not have perks aswell. Starting from more than 8 playable factions, extensive scripts and a more reasonable Province capital choice(CA wtf!!) not to forget that it stretches east ~2 provinces further.

Another also often overlooked reason:
one should not change horses in midstream. I* have seen quite some Mods die because they changed the engine before they actually released a version. A good example here is the "EB mod" for Mount and Blade. switching engines may retain research, but you loose all the work done in code Textures and Models may be imported but are often obsolete. A new engine often also means new possibilities and thus spurs more concept work. You essencially throw away most of your work and start from scratch, just to have an "obsolete" mod by the time you're done, afterall large Mods normally take much longer than "real" games do make, afterall modders do it in their free time. and often Modding teams are much smaller than Dev teams at microsoft etc. Finaly switching engine also disgruntles a lot of fans and thus disposes of a large portion of the mod followers as most people follow mods for games that they own rather than mods from good modders.

Total conversion Mods make old games interesting again, they don't improve on new games.

*the great mod observer.

[Arjos]

Modusers will reassess: cost(R2TW)=50$+1000$=1050$=a lot, cost(EB2)=0$+10(in case they do not have M2TW yet)$=10$=not much.

Seriously, those complaining really need to engrave that part in their brains: IT'S FREE!!!
For me and most people, deciding whether to spend 1k is a choice between being able to eat and pay the bills for 2 months (even less) or not XD

And that's the materialistic take on it, R2TW will never even remotely reach the depth of EBII, Shogun 2 had like 5 gainable traits, 3 ancillaries and when you are like 1-2 traits from birth lol

Then again, if all you care about are graphics, buy the damn thing and be happy :P

[Miaow]

I'd be more worried about the AI, especially the campaign map AI. IIRC, the M2:TW AI is even worse than R:TW's is, and then there are things like the cavalry bug (making proper charging not happen all too often). Empire was pretty dire also, but S2:TW was a huge improvement in campaign AI and an incremental one in battlemap AI. Assuming R2:TW's AI is as good or better than Shogun 2's, I'm sure that's something we'd like to have for EB.

[Arjos]

Nah, the campaign AI is far far better, especially the diplomacy (I've seen this in many mods already)...
As for the cavalry charges, I think it had to do with the vanilla stats, regarding at what distance the lances were lowered. Again in mods I've had no troubles with charging, retreating and charging again :)

[Ca Putt]

The lance "bug" was more than compensated by the onipresent OP-ness of heavy cavalry in M2TW, there are few mods where Cavalry isn't THE battle winner*, no matter how small their units. While I do see the problem, It hasn't been anyway near game breaking in the past and with the EB aim(Cavalry is great but Infantry wins battles) I don't think it will be problematic at all.

*lately I mopped up a scripted dutch rebellion with 8 units of pikemen, 8 units of Spearmen and 4 units of crossbowmen, with 5 units of bodyguard sized Knights a unit of Militia crossbowmen, sergeants and mounted sergeants each. you could say I'm an inpeccible General, or you could say Cavalry is awfully powerfull in M2TW.

[QuintusSertorius]

I don't agree at all. EB II will almost certainly be much more worked out in aspects of historical accuracy, difficulty, roleplaying aspects, traits, and gameplay mechanisms such as leaders and families, nomadism and settlement, building development, provincial government, ...
Rome 2 will look better, have better animations, and probably have some innovative aspects. But Rome 2 will be all about war. EB II will be all about the world you play in. Which IMHO has much more appeal. I will be bored with Rome 2 very early on. I will be able to keep playing EB II for years, as I have been playing EB for years.

Agreed. R2:TW will be more vanilla CA rubbish, which I have zero interest in. I bought M2:TW on budget a year or so ago in preparation for EBII, but haven't even installed it yet. I won't play it unmodded, not even worth my time, though I have occasionally looked for other total conversions of the same standard as EB to try. Fundamental issue, though, is that I don't much care for the medieval period and even less for fantasy-inspired ones.

[Arjos]

I have occasionally looked for other total conversions of the same standard as EB to try. Fundamental issue, though, is that I don't much care for the medieval period and even less for fantasy-inspired ones.

Invasio Barbarorum II isn't bad, its team is working on several scenarios, which are quite interesting...
With those completed (2 out of 3 were already released), they will mix it all up for the "world" map campaign...

Of course if you don't like the late antiquity, I can't think of any mod for M2TW, other than EBII :P

[sareth]

hi to all!

how is everything?

I have a curiosity: the performance of the mod in development and the engine itself, as they are?

[Rex Somnorum]

How detailed is the representation of local cultures and religions, like Judaism? And how can the player influence their development? From the meagre information I've gleaned, most of the important buildings will primarily determine the relation of the ruling or occupying power to the regional community. Will that correspond to a cultural exchange?

[V.T. Marvin]

hi to all!
Thank you and hello back to you! :ave:

how is everything?
Pretty busy, but fine overall. Afterall, it seems that winter has finally decided to go away from my place and the Sun is startin to show up at times, so it will only get better I guess. ~;)

I have a curiosity: the performance of the mod in development and the engine itself, as they are?
That is a good question, but a difficult one to answer. Luckily for me I have bought a "Skyrim-grade" laptop last year, so the game runs smoothly for me. Actually the loading times are much shorter than I experience while playing EB 1.2 on the same computer. But that might be not only because the M2TW engine is better and more efficient, but also because we still do not have so much text - historical descriptions mostly - crammed into our development version of the mod. In any case, I believe that given how old M2TW is and how powerful most of computers made in the last few years are, there will be no problem running the game in reasonable detail at a reasonable speed.

Related to that is of course the stability issue and here I have to admit that this is something that we have to improve before public release. Yes, there are mysterious CTDs occurring from time to time - as is to be expected in any complex software still under development - and it would be prudent to assume that even after public release there will still be some. Hopefully it will not detract from the enjoyment of the game too much. Just remember - or ask around - what performance EB 0.74 or EB 0.81b have had...

So brace yourself, but do not be afraid! :yes:


How detailed is the representation of local cultures and religions, like Judaism? And how can the player influence their development? From the meagre information I've gleaned, most of the important buildings will primarily determine the relation of the ruling or occupying power to the regional community. Will that correspond to a cultural exchange?
First of all, welcome to the .Org in general and to the EB community in particular. Please enjoy a virtual beer straight from Pilsen, cheers! ~:cheers:

The game is necessarily running of very high level of abstraction - just consider how huge area in RL the game map is supposed to represent and how little tools we have in the game engine to make such things really matter. That said, this is an issue that is considered seriously by our historians and attention is paid to it. What we can do is provide historical information on subjects that otherwise cannot be directly represented in the game. For instance, every province - and there are 199 of them - will have it own "building" precisely as a medium to confer information about the geography, history and society of the region to the player in the building's description. Than there are traits. while there is a hard-coded limit of 30 factions at max in the game, there are ways to represent various tribes, ethnicities and such, that composed the larger game faction, as traits for the game characters. These are another medium to provide historical information, but more importantly they matter in things like how well a particular character fare in governing a particular city or commanding an army, etc.

The cultural interplay is actually even more restricted as the game engine allows at most 10 "cultures" and 7 "religions" - so there is not too much granularity we can aim for, but still some ingenious mechanisms has been devised which I am not going to spoil right now, but generally I can say with confidence that yes, local cultures and religions do matter, have fairly detailed representation and could be manipulated by the player. Within reason of course.:sneaky:

[QuintusSertorius]

Nah, the campaign AI is far far better, especially the diplomacy (I've seen this in many mods already)...

Admittedly I don't have a lot of faith in CA in this regard (since AI is much harder to get right than graphics), but I'd be curious to know more.
Does the AI respect alliances and such, or more specifically, are the military and diplomacy AI actually aligned now (they weren't in R:TW)?
Will the AI accept peace treaties when you've decided you've had enough of defeating them?
Does the AI put together proper, large armies, rather than fragmenting their forces and sending endless streams of useless, too-small armies to annoy but never actually threaten?
Does the AI defend its settlements when you invade, rather than fleeing?
Is the rebel/slave/unaligned faction a challenge to other AI factions? One of the things that annoys me a little about the simulation aspect in EB is that all those independents are a pushover, leading to imperial juggernaughts in far too short a time.
Lastly, is there an equivalent to the Force Diplomacy minimod in M2:TW?

[V.T. Marvin]

I've waited this long and can continue waiting (I'm a father now, which I wasn't back in 2007/8 when I was first playing EB1, I barely notice the days going by any more!) because I know the finished product will have been worth it.
Thank you for your kind words and congratulations to your family, friend! :flowers:

I am father of two by now, which I wasn't back in 2007/8 when I was first playing EB1, and I can tell you that while there are some compatibility issues between family and EB, it is still manageable. :yes:

Now to your questions in the preceding post - I have not played vanilla M2TW at all and neither any other mod for it, because, exactly as you, I am simply not interested in it. Therefore I really do not know how well the engine does perform on these issues and I fully agree that these are among the top most important ones for a satisfying gameplay. This is how I joined the Team - waiting for EB2 long enough to finally decide to speed things up a little...

However, there are some good news - the diplomacy and AI behaviour is to a significant extent moddable. Currently, we do not have a Team member dedicated specifically to this aspect of the game. So, if you are willing to sacrifice some of your free time - and with kids you cannot have a good sleep anyway - you can help us on this front. Contributing to EB2 is a nice way to distract your thoughts between changing nappies or cooking dinner I assure you! :clown:

[Arjos]

Does the AI respect alliances and such, or more specifically, are the military and diplomacy AI actually aligned now (they weren't in R:TW)?

They respect them, yes.
Betrayals are still possible, but their standing needs to be lowish for it. Or if your ally shares all its borders with you, it will demand military access or declare war, but accept peace and alliance once again, provided you offer access...
Factions with high relations, will stick together...

I do not know, at a coding/engine level, whether they are aligned though...


Will the AI accept peace treaties when you've decided you've had enough of defeating them?

It depends on how many settlements the specific faction has left I think...
But it's very common for say a faction suffering defeats and with 2-3 (sometimes even more, especially if you don't border with them), to sue for peace and accepting most demands...


Does the AI put together proper, large armies, rather than fragmenting their forces and sending endless streams of useless, too-small armies to annoy but never actually threaten?

It tends to stick to large armies yes and also sends decent stacks on naval invasions...


Does the AI defend its settlements when you invade, rather than fleeing?

Not really sure what you mean here...
I've usually seen settlements with full stacks (in EBI). AI vacating settlements and running away is new to me...

In M2TW, there are mods with scripted garrisons, so even if the AI has left it with a unit, depending on the settlement's size it spawns a stack inside. So definitely a sub-mod possibility...


Is the rebel/slave/unaligned faction a challenge to other AI factions? One of the things that annoys me a little about the simulation aspect in EB is that all those independents are a pushover, leading to imperial juggernaughts in far too short a time.

That will depend on how the team scripts it...
The pushover/short time is because they don't recruit or retrain. But I think already with the alex.exe the retrained units. I don't know whether it's harcoded or not for the eleutheroi to be unable to recruit. Hopefully it will be just a matter of editing few entries, but ofc it must be kept in mind, that starting with so many provinces, they would overrun everybody else. So in the end, the best of compromises will have to do...


Lastly, is there an equivalent to the Force Diplomacy minimod in M2:TW?

Don't know, but I don't see why it couldn't be modded...

BTW all of this comes from my experience with M2TW's mods. I haven't played any vanilla title (except Shogun 2) for more than a few hrs...

[cahtush]

That will depend on how the team scripts it...
The pushover/short time is because they don't recruit or retrain. But I think already with the alex.exe the retrained units. I don't know whether it's harcoded or not for the eleutheroi to be unable to recruit. Hopefully it will be just a matter of editing few entries, but ofc it must be kept in mind, that starting with so many provinces, they would overrun everybody else. So in the end, the best of compromises will have to do...



Don't know, but I don't see why it couldn't be modded...

BTW all of this comes from my experience with M2TW's mods. I haven't played any vanilla title (except Shogun 2) for more than a few hrs...

I have seen rebels train units in vanilla, must be something with EB. Can the eleutheroi use all barracks? Might be that otherwise.

[B-Wing]

I don't know much about modding, but in Stainless Steel (M2TW mod), rebel settlements will increase in units and buildings over time. That could just be the result of scripting, but I think they have an actual AI that allows them to improve.

[Mithridates VI Eupator]

One of the reasons for the Eleutheroi's inability to train new units is the fact that as the single largest faction in the game, their huge amount of units quickly causes them to go bankrupt. You can experiment in EB1 by setting the money script to give them copious amounts of money each turn, and they will sometimes start to recruit units. This is not recemmended, though, as it will severly unbalance the game.

[QuintusSertorius]

One of the reasons for the Eleutheroi's inability to train new units is the fact that as the single largest faction in the game, their huge amount of units quickly causes them to go bankrupt. You can experiment in EB1 by setting the money script to give them copious amounts of money each turn, and they will sometimes start to recruit units. This is not recemmended, though, as it will severly unbalance the game.

In many my last games, I regularly gave the Eleutheroi 100,000 or more mnai a turn via the console (and often picked certain settlements to add extra units to their garrisons), and it didn't "severely unbalance the game". It slowed down the advance of the other AI factions, but still not enough for my tastes. There certainly wasn't an advance of the rebel settlements, since they only seem to defend what they have, not try to expand.

[d'Arthez]

Let's wildly assume that the average settlement is defended by 8 units, and that the average upkeep per unit is 500. Which is probably on the conservative side, especially since cavalry units are quite expensive in upkeep. No Eleutheroi city in EB comes even close in terms of making 4000 Mnai / turn. The only way they could do that is second tier mines, in a minerally rich province. As far as I know, no settlement starts with those mines.

Add in all the rebel stacks, scripted defenders, pirates, etc., and it is obvious that the Eleutheroi are crippled in debt from the get-go. In order for them to develop, you would need to give them copious amounts of money, to the tune of 100 000 Mnai for every 20 settlements they own. At the start of the game that would be more than 600 000 Mnai / turn. I think someone actually experimented with giving them about 3000 Mnai / turn for every settlement they owned. That massively reduced expansion in Eleutheroi lands. Doing so would only require some minor changes to the script.

Back on topic:
I am not too worried about this particular issue in EB2. I am sure the first version won't have it solved - it is a matter of testing and tweaking. A blunt method such as "add_money" may work in general, but that may conflict with historical reality, and AI practice.

For EB, there were the AI faction progress threads, which also helped in identifying issues that lead / have led to unwanted AI behavior, such as the formation of Grey Death / Yellow Fever, factions expanding to unwanted areas (Hayasdan to the steppes, Pahlava up north, rather than to the south; Sweboz saying hello to the Romans in 250 BC). It is all in finding the right balance, and that requires serious testing.

[QuintusSertorius]

Thank you for your kind words and congratulations to your family, friend! :flowers:

I am father of two by now, which I wasn't back in 2007/8 when I was first playing EB1, and I can tell you that while there are some compatibility issues between family and EB, it is still manageable. :yes:

Now to your questions in the preceding post - I have not played vanilla M2TW at all and neither any other mod for it, because, exactly as you, I am simply not interested in it. Therefore I really do not know how well the engine does perform on these issues and I fully agree that these are among the top most important ones for a satisfying gameplay. This is how I joined the Team - waiting for EB2 long enough to finally decide to speed things up a little...

However, there are some good news - the diplomacy and AI behaviour is to a significant extent moddable. Currently, we do not have a Team member dedicated specifically to this aspect of the game. So, if you are willing to sacrifice some of your free time - and with kids you cannot have a good sleep anyway - you can help us on this front. Contributing to EB2 is a nice way to distract your thoughts between changing nappies or cooking dinner I assure you! :clown:

Another child on the way, too!

Hmmm, my modding in the EB1 days was rather limited to cosmetic changes (names of things, colours on the minimap, etc) and the odd bit of tinkering with descr_strat.txt, but I'll have a look at what's involved and assess whether it's something I could learn how to do.


They respect them, yes.
Betrayals are still possible, but their standing needs to be lowish for it. Or if your ally shares all its borders with you, it will demand military access or declare war, but accept peace and alliance once again, provided you offer access...
Factions with high relations, will stick together...

I do not know, at a coding/engine level, whether they are aligned though...

Standing is a new concept in M2:TW isn't it? Might that offer some means of having more sensible diplomacy?


It depends on how many settlements the specific faction has left I think...
But it's very common for say a faction suffering defeats and with 2-3 (sometimes even more, especially if you don't border with them), to sue for peace and accepting most demands...

Doesn't sound much changed from RTW; there if you shared a border peace was basically impossible. Frankly it's the ones who share a border where being able to have meaningful diplomacy matters.


It tends to stick to large armies yes and also sends decent stacks on naval invasions...

Hmmm, does this mean that like with BI's executable, anyone bordering on the same body of water treats you as a constant invasion target?


Not really sure what you mean here...
I've usually seen settlements with full stacks (in EBI). AI vacating settlements and running away is new to me...

I got it a lot in EB1, I'd send my single not-full-stack army into enemy territory, and sometimes have to spend some time chasing down their armies. Worse still, sometimes I'd bring them to battle, only for them to run away the moment the battle started.


In M2TW, there are mods with scripted garrisons, so even if the AI has left it with a unit, depending on the settlement's size it spawns a stack inside. So definitely a sub-mod possibility...

There might be something there.


That will depend on how the team scripts it...
The pushover/short time is because they don't recruit or retrain. But I think already with the alex.exe the retrained units. I don't know whether it's harcoded or not for the eleutheroi to be unable to recruit. Hopefully it will be just a matter of editing few entries, but ofc it must be kept in mind, that starting with so many provinces, they would overrun everybody else. So in the end, the best of compromises will have to do...

If EB1 is anything to go by, the danger isn't that the Eleutheroi might be too strong, but that they are fundamentally far too weak. In a normal game, all the independents are normally gone within 50 turns. That's far too fast, IMO.


Don't know, but I don't see why it couldn't be modded...

BTW all of this comes from my experience with M2TW's mods. I haven't played any vanilla title (except Shogun 2) for more than a few hrs...

I'll have to do some digging. I hope so.


Let's wildly assume that the average settlement is defended by 8 units, and that the average upkeep per unit is 500. Which is probably on the conservative side, especially since cavalry units are quite expensive in upkeep. No Eleutheroi city in EB comes even close in terms of making 4000 Mnai / turn. The only way they could do that is second tier mines, in a minerally rich province. As far as I know, no settlement starts with those mines.

Add in all the rebel stacks, scripted defenders, pirates, etc., and it is obvious that the Eleutheroi are crippled in debt from the get-go. In order for them to develop, you would need to give them copious amounts of money, to the tune of 100 000 Mnai for every 20 settlements they own. At the start of the game that would be more than 600 000 Mnai / turn. I think someone actually experimented with giving them about 3000 Mnai / turn for every settlement they owned. That massively reduced expansion in Eleutheroi lands. Doing so would only require some minor changes to the script.

Back on topic:
I am not too worried about this particular issue in EB2. I am sure the first version won't have it solved - it is a matter of testing and tweaking. A blunt method such as "add_money" may work in general, but that may conflict with historical reality, and AI practice.

For EB, there were the AI faction progress threads, which also helped in identifying issues that lead / have led to unwanted AI behavior, such as the formation of Grey Death / Yellow Fever, factions expanding to unwanted areas (Hayasdan to the steppes, Pahlava up north, rather than to the south; Sweboz saying hello to the Romans in 250 BC). It is all in finding the right balance, and that requires serious testing.

I'd completely forgotten about the money script, thanks for reminding me. It seems there was a more elegant solution than the one I was using, and I wasn't adding nearly enough money. Is there an equivalent in EB2?

As to historicity, I find the disappearance of everything independent, and emergence of 8-10 superpowers within 50 game years a lot less credible than a strong, vibrant Eleutheroi remaining until late into the game.

I did an awful lot of FD-augmentation in some of my game to prevent ahistorical expansion, it would be nice if the EB2 team had found some way of preventing that.

[Arjos]

Standing is a new concept in M2:TW isn't it? Might that offer some means of having more sensible diplomacy?

Yes, there are 10 levels (iirc). It does help a lot...


Doesn't sound much changed from RTW; there if you shared a border peace was basically impossible. Frankly it's the ones who share a border where being able to have meaningful diplomacy matters.

In M2TW they still accept peace, even if they border you. Ofc you would've to act pretty fast, to further your relations. Because depending on how bad the standings deteriorated, during the conflict, the AI would try to regain its status soon as it feels confident...


Hmmm, does this mean that like with BI's executable, anyone bordering on the same body of water treats you as a constant invasion target?

Absolutely not, only if the AI faction has low diplomatic standing...
In the diplomacy menu, it's also stated what a given faction wants from its relation with you (be that trading, peace, alliance or conquer)...

[Cybvep]

In regard to rebels, I think that it's possible to check their treasury in a script, right? Then you can ensure that they will have a surplus once every year or so. Most likely, you can even base this on in-game year or progress of other factions. Shouldn't be too hard, as long as there are proper triggers in place.

[Rex Somnorum]

What will religion represent within the game? Except for a few coy references, the issue was never directly broached.

What's the hardcoded limit for the number of religions, for that matter?

[Moros]

It will represent the socio-political culture of the region, I guess. Some region are typically more tribal while others might be used to imperial administration, but eastern tribalism is of course still rather different from North European one. It represent whether the dominating faction's administration/governement/... is compatible with that of the local population. However obviously a faction's way of administration can change or evolve as well. The parthians might start out as tribal pastoralist but would historically end up as a true empire. Obviously we will allow a player to do this as well.

I believe the number was 7, but I might be mistaken.

[LusitanianWolf]

It will represent the socio-political culture of the region, I guess. Some region are typically more tribal while others might be used to imperial administration, but eastern tribalism is of course still rather different from North European one. It represent whether the dominating faction's administration/governement/... is compatible with that of the local population. However obviously a faction's way of administration can change or evolve as well. The parthians might start out as tribal pastoralist but would historically end up as a true empire. Obviously we will allow a player to do this as well.

I believe the number was 7, but I might be mistaken.
Wow, quite interesting! I realy like the concept!