questions of MP construction

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

version 8 multiplayer desync'd and has been put to one side,

medieval has many limits that are not readily apparent even WHEN you bump into them,
(like the maximum number of castles and upgrades that can exist in a buildprod file)


if you are certain you have made no end of file mistakes or corruptions
then
i am certain a hidden limit has been breached

i am wondering have you tried version 8_MP

without new models
(maybe there is a max limit to number of models in total)

with a limited number of clans (say 8 only - same as a viking campaign)
(maybe 8 in an expansion is the limit)

with a strictly restricted set of character names
(maybe too many Lord "spare hero slot" 's)
(maybe too many names in total)

with only original king/ character names, start leader stats, text files
(maybe a value has been broken and that throws out the games database)


:bow:

[Puzz3D]

Models might be causing the multiplayer desync with version 8. The MTW models are not deleted by the install, and they should have been. So we have a ton of extra models defined that are not being used.

However, we also increased the resolution of the cavalry sprites and changed their animations. This might be introducing additional delay resulting in desync. We only see the desync on 2v2 and up, and not that much on 2v2. However, 3v3 and 4v4 battles will just about always desync.

We don't have more castles than MTW. In fact, we have less which is causing some battles in SP campaign that should be a castle battle to be played on the internal generic map which has no castle and is a serious problem that I want to correct.

The problem is not the number of clans. We use 16 clans in version 5, and never have desyncs. Version 5 is also using the old cavalry sprites and animations, and the MTW maps with MTW models. So, I suspect it's either the models or the cavalry sprites, but there are other changes between version 5 and version 8 so it could be something else. Unfortunately, right now we can't investigate this because it requires at least 6 players to test, and R'as is not available to help with making new installs at this time.

We did try MTW maps with version 8 and it still desynced, but I don't know if the extra Japanese models were still present in the model file. Many other things are different between version 5 and 8, so it's not going to be easy to identify the problem unless we get lucky.

Thanks for the comments and interest.

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

dont have a copy of sam8_MP on hand, dont have a copy of MTW on hand at moment either.


From my earlier experience with modding mtw i can comfortably state that the castle battles getting resolved on a generic map is caused by the lack of matching maps for the castle_level/upgrade/terrain combination that the game is looking for

the game cannot look for an upgrade combo that is not listed in the buildprod file,

therefore there must be a class of terrain where a castle exists in the game,
but for which there is no defined map,

IIRC the map naming convention is terrain[mapnumber]_[castle-level]_[upgrade-level]


the hard solution is to trawl through the text file where the map terrain is defined and check that every Province terrain is defined correctly (no merged types eg NO hilly2flat etc) and that each named province type has a full set of castle maps (levels and upgrades).
(minimises the number of maps)


the easier solution is to simply list all possible terain combo's and
list the castle level/upgrade combo's (easy as look in prod file in samwars),
and then
copy/rename castle maps so you have at least one for each level/upgrade/terrain combination,
(a lot of maps, but a lot less time)


:bow:

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

...The problem is not the number of clans. We use 16 clans in version 5, and never have desyncs. suspect eliminated :bow:

Version 5 is also using the old cavalry sprites and animations, and the MTW maps with MTW models. So, I suspect it's either the models or the cavalry sprites, but there are other changes between version 5 and version 8 so it could be something else. Unfortunately, right now we can't investigate this because it requires at least 6 players to test, and R'as is not available to help with making new installs at this time....:bow:
very informative, the path is clear,
i will shortly begin my investigations.
:bow:

[R'as al Ghul]

Hi TechnoMage,

would be nice if you would spot something that we haven't considered yet.
Here's a link to a thread where we've listed all symptoms and thoughts so far:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=69991

I think we've tested MP on very generic maps. Iirc CBR and I did some test on
an ironboard map without any models. (is that right CB?)
It seems to be related to animations. Number of clans doesn't seem to be an issue.
I think Pink & Musket has about 200 units, so the number of units isn't a problem either.
Two cavalry units use the same mount which isn't exactly a mount but just different phases of the animation. But again, cegorach is using something similar in P&M and it works in MP.
We had to stop testing at some point because of lack of time.
Personally I'd love being able to play beta_8 MP because of the number of clans available, change in colours, change of map textures, models etc. We've put a lot of work into it and it's frustrating not being able to use it properly.

R'as

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

from your deductions it really is looking like unit animations

do you have a test configuration setup already?

i can operate 3 PC's simultaneous to test (i have 3 MTW-VI license's here) IF someone can tell me wether or not 3 systems can connect to a host and run the game through a netgear DG834 (wireless + 4x10/100)

[R'as al Ghul]

3 systems, 3 licenses = 3 nicknames and IP adresses = yes that should work.....
Maybe a bit of a hassle to set up the portforwarding, though.
Just try it, you seem to be tech savvy enough.

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

multiple external IP numbers? (single internet connection here)
is there a way around that?
can mtw use different ports?
can they be set on the local machine?
(has no-one written a fakeserver yet?)

aalso direct from gamespy help
(seems to indicate that you could use different ports!!)
What ports does GameSpy Arcade use?
If you are behind a firewall/proxy and are able to change its settings, Arcade needs the following TCP ports open in order to function:

· 6667 (IRC)
· 3783 (Voice Chat Port)
· 27900 (Master Server UDP Heartbeat)
· 28900 (Master Server List Request)
· 29900 (GP Connection Manager)
· 29901 (GP Search Manager)
· 13139 (Custom UDP Pings)
· 6515 (Dplay UDP)
· 6500 (Query Port)

Again, these are TCP unless otherwise specified and are bidirectional.

University Internet connections - Universities usually protect their networks with firewalls. In most cases these cannot be opened by you the user. You'll have to consult a technician at your University to see if a workaround is possible. It might be necessary to open more ports in order to run certain games. Also, please note that this is a list of recommended ports. It does not mean that your particular firewall will be easy to configure. Please consult your firewall/proxy manufacturer for detailed instructions. In reality, getting Arcade to work on certain restrictive networks may even be a little harder than opening these ports. DirectPlay games in all likelihood will not launch properly at all.


i have also seen a report here on the org where the player failed to allow the specific ports that mtw and mtwvi used,
yet was still able to play and host,
so maybe mtw is not "strict" as well,


seems to me all that needs be done is define/assign a range of ports "near" the ones gamespy and vi want for each individual machine,
then LOCALLY close the ranges that the other machines will use,
then set the internal ip's for each machine and (on the router) port forward each range for each machine...
?

[R'as al Ghul]

Can you disable the firewall of your router and forward all ports?
That way the IP's of the machines behind the router should be visible on the net with different IPs.
I'd recommend to use a personal firewall on each machine, like Sygate, and allow the game to access the network.
CA has written MTW in a way that fakeservers, like for STW, are impossible or very hard to set up.
The gameserver adress of gamespy seems to be hardcoded and is not read from a txt file, although such a txt file exists. They didn't want people being able to use fakeservers, like the Shogun one.
If gamespy turns off the server in the future the only way to play will be Hamachi.
Which, by the way, could be a solution to what you're planning, because it sets up a VPN and tunnels through everything. You can read it up on the net.

R'as

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

reading about Hamachi, will that connect to the arcade?

any fancy setting needed? (rome and m2tw require some fancy footwork)

setting up trashable drives, so i can, if needed, be "exposed" with little "cost".
I can have 3 systems up and running with VI, all i need to do is get them connected to gamespy/host...

do you have a version that we can test and try to find the desync cause?

[R'as al Ghul]

When you set up Hamachi you have to use the LAN MP option of the game.
No fancy settings needed.
Maybe you could just start with the regular beta_8 at first.

Then there's a version in this folder: http://www.mizus.com/Ras/temp/
called stws.rar which CBR and I used for testing.
There are three other archives in that folder called step1 - step3.
To be honest I can't remember exactly what the different steps do without checking out my saved versions first.
(I'll do that later, have to do other stuff first)
We started with the install of stws.rar on a vanilla MTW install and tried that, then the three steps add new animation files each time and have to be installed/extracted on the test version.(always main game folder as target) That way we wanted to find out which animation file is causing the trouble.
One step is adding a new NoDachi, one cavalry, etc.
The downloads aren't that big so just give it a go.

Cheers,

R'as

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

if we use hamachi to emulate a lan, then we dont need CD keys? (and i dont need to play with port forward :bow:)
I have 3 live systems here, plus 3 more assembled (warm storage).

This coming weekend I could set them up,
4 would be optimal with #'s 5 & 6 available

if we are going to hamchi tell me asap, so i have time to warm them up, install hamachi, VI and the mod
(and create a network)
(and tell me GMT times too, alarms to set...)

PS - whats the password to the rar?

[R'as al Ghul]

Ah, my mistake.
Will PM you to explain.
:bow:

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

so far i am unable to connect (via hamachi) to a game hosted locally (between 2 PC's),
need an offsite host to test against.

also R'as is unavailable this weekend,
any volunteers?

[Puzz3D]

Since you have 3 machines you could try a standard 3 player LAN game or 4 player game if you have 4 machines, and see if beta 8 desyncs. If it does, that would be a test bed for tracking down the problem.

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

I have 3 live,
1 other live but on holidays (it won a free trip to vegas),
3 warm (ready to run, o/s installed and all equip. avail.),
3 non compos mentis (no ram for them - o/s & equip. avail. and installed),
otherwise i'd run an 8x lan to test.

will 6 machine/players desync??

and if i wanted to allow one/several of you to hamachi in, then exactly which configuration would i need to run?

- Hamachi on best machine and allow you to tunnel in?

- or hamachi on all mine and tunnel into my own lan??
(which would be deathly slow, sending and recieving my own traffic...)

- or hamachi all mine and tunnel into your lan?
(again my wan link would be busybusybusy)

quite happy to run a solo "sixer" lan If you think that will desync, will NOT have time to do that for approx 20 hours

[Puzz3D]

quite happy to run a solo "sixer" lan If you think that will desync, will NOT have time to do that for approx 20 hours
As I recall, 6 player beta 8 battles nearly always desynced when playing over the internet. I don't know if they will desync when played on a LAN. Delay can cause a desync because the host machine only waits a certain amount of time for a response from the other machines in the battle before it considers a machine to be out of sync. Since there is less delay on a LAN it may very well be that you won't see a desync, but delay isn't the only possible cause of a desync. If you don't get any desync on a LAN, we can assume that delay is the cause of desync when playing over the internet. If you do see a desync on the LAN, we can assume that a calculation is giving a different result on the host machine than on the machine that desyncs. In this case, it would be important to note the cpu type of the host machine and the machine that dropped. MTW v1.0 games would desync when the machines had different types of cpu (Intel vs AMD). We may already have eliminated the cpu as the possible cause by observing desync between machines of the same cpu type, but I can't remember.

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

all intel, 2=p4 3k ht, 3=p4 ((forgot- not live yet), but no ht), 1=PentiumD, so nothing superfast

i will start at MP5 - If I get to MP8 and still get no desyncs then will go back to MP5 and increase detail settings until i can cause sufficient local lag, then i will run through the three incremental versions R'as has supplied.
:bow:

[Puzz3D]

Beta 5 doesn't have a desync problem, but you may want to run it just to be sure it works with your configuration. I was thinking of starting with beta 8 just to see if it desyncs with your configuration. If it doesn't, then we can't use your LAN for debugging this problem.

The best way to do the installs it to install MTW/VI, make a copy of it and install the mod on the copy. You can then copy the modded version to the other machines. This way you only have to install MTW/VI once and make copies of that each time you want to install a different version of the mod. There is no way to uninstall the mod, and the mod can only be successfully installed on an unmodded version of MTW/VI.

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

if beta 8 does not desync on 6 boxes then i will have #7 back on monday and can downsize the ram on 4/5&6 to bring a non compos box online as well.
i fully expect to see a desync on 6 boxes,

(it is faster to install the mod on all boxes than to copy installs of mtw across the lan)
what i have done is clone the installed copy
so that i have a base copy, a backup base copy, a beta 5 copy, a beta 8 copy and the three test increments that R'as has provided.
2 boxes complete, 4 to be done late today.

[Puzz3D]

Ok great! We were getting desyncs with beta 8 in large battles shortly after the the battle started before any units were engaged, but after armies were moving as I recall. However, it wasn't always like that. Sometimes the battle would progress beyond engagement before it desynced.

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

progress report
3 boxes complete, 1 box 40 minutes from complete (backing up image of built drive to external hdd now)
2 more boxes will be online overnight,

beta8 on 3 boxes, 2xP4 1xPentiumD , LAN, ping <50 = ALWAYS desynced, always.
(as a note of interest, the PentiumD always desynced, never the P4's)

beta5 on 3 boxes, 2xP4 1xPentiumD , LAN, ping <50 = all good

5.1, 5.2 and 5.3 = all good (3 boxes - if still good on 6 boxes then those increments can be added to the mix)

5.1 adds new flags and updated samarchers,
5.2 adds the new warrior monks,
5.3 adds new naginata, ashi, yarisam and nodachi.

if all 5.x variants test good on 6 boxes then i will add custom0 and custom9 to the mix = (thats the cavalry)


more incremental buildups,

Puzz - have you got
1. the new models in a pack? (with new text files adding models ONLY) (or even just the text, i can add to the required main text files)

2. the new maps and tiles in a pack (adding any entries need) (again a copy of the text entries will do and i can add into main text files myself)


what else was added to beta5 to make it beta8??

[Puzz3D]

These rar's have the necessary directory structure to unzip into the main game folder. The models pack has all the necessary files lbm, txt, etc. The maps_textures_stats pack has those three things which can be added separately. We did run some online tests that eliminated the textures from the cause of the desync, but that could be repeated to be sure. I don't think the textures are causing the problem. The unit prod file is much smaller than the one used in beta5 because we removed all the mtw/vi units. I don't see how problems in this file could cause a desync, but they can cause a crash.

SWbeta8_models.rar (http://www.mizus.com/hosted/Yuuki/SWbeta8_models.rar)

SWbeta8_maps_textures_stats.rar (http://www.mizus.com/hosted/Yuuki/SWbeta8_maps_textures_stats.rar)

[R'as al Ghul]

if all 5.x variants test good on 6 boxes then i will add custom0 and custom9 to the mix = (thats the cavalry)



Just a quick reminder,
adding the cavalry to beta_5 to achieve beta_8 status is not done by a simple overwriting
of the custom folders 0 and 9. We've used at least one other folder and it requires a change in the unit_prod file, too, to link the animations with the units.
I'll post some details later. You could also check out the beta_8 unit_prod by yourself and look at which
unit animation folders are linked with which unit.

R'as

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

thanks for that r'as,
copying the entire texture folder from 8 to 5.3 is what i have just done, (ver5.5)
now i will copy the unit prod and make a beta 5 startpos file point at the unit prod

incidentally, beta8 has far more clans than beta5, beta5 has 15,
and i mentioned early on that i was worried maybe an expansion mod can only have 15 plus rebels.
determining that is a long way off yet,
i want to get animations, maps, terrain, models and sounds eliminated from the list of suspects first.

HOW DID you get japanese terrain and architecture to show in MP selection please.

[R'as al Ghul]

HOW DID you get japanese terrain and architecture to show in MP selection please.

By modding one of the .txt files in Loc/Eng/ where the terrain types are listed.
I have replaced Lush with the Japanese textures and since beta_8 is intended to be only used for Samurai Warlords, no vanilla game, I just replaced the Lush string in that file. That way, when hosting MP games, it's easier for people to select the intended terrain for the map. We've done some maps especially for that terrain and they would look odd when using arid or something else.

R'as

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

when i use Beta5 mod (unit/build/start) with the textures folder from 8 = works 100&#37;

when i tried the MP11_unit file I was victim of unknow factions messages,
so i removed all factions other than 9 to 24,

but i have not the knowledge to remove the need for the MP11_build file,

i want to use beta5 startpos, with MP11_unit (with extra factions removed) and with STW_10_build - anyone got/can make please?


if the animation files from beta8 work in beta5, and the only difference is the actions pointers, and using the dervish folder for ninja,
then i should be able to use the beta8 mp unit prod (minus extra factions) with no crashes, but it is linked to the mp11 build prod and using both i get desyncs, always.


I want to be able to use the STW_MP11_unit_prod file with STW_10_build_prod and beta5 startpos.
Then we can eliminate the unit animations (and controls) entirely from the problem.

[R'as al Ghul]

but i have not the knowledge to remove the need for the MP11_build file,

i want to use beta5 startpos, with MP11_unit (with extra factions removed) and with STW_10_build - anyone got/can make please?
[..]
I want to be able to use the STW_MP11_unit_prod file with STW_10_build_prod and beta5 startpos.
Then we can eliminate the unit animations (and controls) entirely from the problem.

A quick idea:
1. the 10_build_prod is not listed in the startpos as build file.
or
2. the game is bitchy about the numbers, both unit and build file have to have the same number in the file name.

R'as

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

that method also desynced,

what changed with the cavalry that required all the changes in action pages?

and what exactly got changed in the unit file (other than stats of course)?

(going to recreate from ground up where i am up to now, then run a second set of desync tests before i go any further)
(ie make a custom build)
(i want to make sure i have not introduced an error myself)

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

say R'as - the reason i ask about all the changes to the actions pages for the cav is the beta5 and beta8 download cavalry bifs are the same, identical.
(just downloaded readbif)

i am sure i saw screenshots from barocca showing cav archers running with bows, and with quivers on their saddles,
why did the new cav bifs not make it into the mod?

[R'as al Ghul]

Many things changed with cavalry. The full archer animation of Hatamoto and CavArcher needed more space than was possible with just using the custom folders 0 and 9. Also some HCav and Hatamoto fighting and running anmations were left out. Some weapons (YariCav and NagCav) have changed because there's more space for them now. etc, etc.
Beta_5 doesn't touch any of the existing vanilla animations and it's still possible to play vanilla. With beta_8 we overwrite the vanilla files and have more space to include all the necessary animations.

If you can get everything running but the Cavalry animations then we know what the problem is.
If that is so, I think barocca will be able to solve that and it seems he'll be back soon.

R'as

[R'as al Ghul]

beta_8 Cavalry uses:
Armhorse, Bowman, CHHLBOW, Fullplar and Camel animations.
beta_5 uses:
Custom_0 and Custom_9

So, yes, you're right the custom folders are the same, I guess I forgot to delete them or planned to have a failsafe. If you check the other animation files you'll see the difference.

R'as

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

i see now what happened with cav, learning my way around the unit prod file now

is there any reason why every troop type is listed as missile, shock, spear, cavalry - even yari ashi?

progress report :-
(i have not yet added in any of the packs Puzz has given links to,)

i just tried the beta unit prod(with excess factions deleted) in beta 5 WITHOUT the beta8 cav animations, and desynced every time (i used the default anims from those locations, so it sure looked weird, knights running on their sides and so on,
but the point is the problem does not appear to be the cav animation files themselves,
for they were not used in the last test.


going to run the unit prod in a pure beta5 copy, (no updates), and see what happens
(if that desyncs then the culprit looks like the unit prod file)
back soon

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

sorry about the delay, wanted to run multiple test just to be safe

taking beta5 MP and using the MP unit prod from beta8, (removing all entries for factions 1 to 7 and 25 & above),
and including the "new" unit prod in a the beta5 mp startpos,
AND NO other updates
desyncs every time

the game does not care that the unit prod "calls" the wrong animation files, and thus what you see is all messed up,

it looks like there is an error in the unit prod file for MP beta8
and that is not my area of expertise,
i cannot even imagine an easy way to fix it, you would have to rewrite the unit prod, maybe by simply adjusting the beta5 unit prod and not removing the extra entries for crusader/muslim/viking units??

i am going to take a break now, if you rewrite the unit prod soon i can test it tomorrow,
(i am uncertain how long i can keep this lan in place - other people normally live here and it's rather crowded with 6 PC's up and running, wires, cables and extension cords all over the place - a few days at most, everybody will be home by wednesday evening and then we will need the space back)
:bow:

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

and as a cross reference test, beta5 stats and startpos files work fine in beta8 - as long as you dont mind the funky sideways floating horses because beta5 points at old style horse bifs, but uses the new style action pages.

so a new beta8 startpos is required before we can continue debugging
:bow:

[Puzz3D]

taking beta5 MP and using the MP unit prod from beta8, (removing all entries for factions 1 to 7 and 25 & above), and including the "new" unit prod in the beta5 mp startpos, AND NO other updates desyncs every time.

the game does not care that the unit prod "calls" the wrong animation files, and thus what you see is all messed up,

it looks like there is an error in the unit prod file for MP beta8 and that is not my area of expertise,
i cannot even imagine an easy way to fix it, you would have to rewrite the unit prod, maybe by simply adjusting the beta5 unit prod and not removing the extra entries for crusader/muslim/viking units??
I made the beta8 unit prod file from the beta5 unit prod file using the gnome editor. The gnome editor is known to sometimes introduce junk at the end of the saved file. It's possible that there are other bugs in the gnome editor. In any case, I'll make a new beta8 unit prod file starting with the beta5 unit prod and editing it with a text editor, and I will not remove any MTW/VI units.

[R'as al Ghul]

It's very well possible that Gnome has introduced an error in the unit_prod.
I think you don't notice it if you play a custom battle with beta_8_MP.
If it's just the unit_prod, it should be easy to fix. I don't think we've looked into that possibility yet.


is there any reason why every troop type is listed as missile, shock, spear, cavalry - even yari ashi?

Yes, it's a required entry but is not really relevant for MP. The AI uses that to determine which is which but I'm not not certain if this column is still used. Some of the columns need to be there but are leftovers from Shogun and not really used anymore in MTW.

R'as

P.S: Sorry for being vague, I write this all from the top of my head. I don't really have time to look it up. I do have the stuff with me on an external harddrive, though and if needed can provide more accurate info.

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

:bow:
i understand "talking off the top of my head" only too well, neither of you have been at all vague,
it is obvious you know the subject very well.


on a side note:-
the org's file download system has become a nightmare,
trying to find the old utilities is, well the only polite thing to say is impossible.
Many have vanished from 3Ddownloads, and even getting to the 3D (Atomic) downloads is challenging.

I also noted some mods have vanished from 3D as well,
War of the Roses for Medieval1 for example - completely gone from the downloads area.

The new system "claims" to have 5 pages in the tools download area, yet all those "pages" display the same set of categories, and it is slow to load pages. Not as slow as being forced to wait the 5 minutes at 3D/Atomic.

I too have been having to go to my external data storage to find tools,
but a stack of cd's a meter high is not an efficient method of storing data for fast retrieval...especially when one counted on the org always having them in download and thus has not catalogued each CD
(I had an ancient but efficient archivist catalogue tool around here somewhere, i can see the need for it again... will send the elves to delve for it...)
:bow:

[Puzz3D]

Here is a new MP unit prod file carefully created from the beta5 STW_MP10_unit_prod.txt file with the notepad text editor. I've named this STW_MP12_unit_prod.txt. You can edit \campmap\startpos\Samurai_Wars_MP.txt to point to this file.

STW_MP12_unit_prod.rar (http://www.mizus.com/hosted/Yuuki/STW_MP12_unit_prod.rar)

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

please test this.

based on Puzz new unit prod,
- added the religion Pagan to samurai units - allows Hoganji to have units,
- fixed references to the new cav bifs,
- fixed references to the new ninja bifs.

tested stable in 3v3 (6 players)

requires Samurai Warlords Single Player version 8 (THIS fix makes that an MP version!)
Samurai_Warlords_MP_v8.2k8 (in the org's medieval beta file upload area (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/Samurai_Warlords_MP_v8.2k8.zip)

and here is a mildly different version of the startpos file,
with Tokugawa, Taira and a couple of other clans that were "latent", they work fine, so 29 clans now
beta8.2k8.1.zip (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/beta8.2k8.1.zip)


BUT the fight animation for heavy cav has a mistyped reference set in one of its actions pages,
(i think R'as will know how to fix that?) there may be one or two others, but thats all i spotted.

[Puzz3D]

Many thanks TechnoMage of Shadows. I'm not sure how soon we can get this tested online. Previous online tests of the beta8 unit prod with beta 5 were inconclusive because we didn't have enough players in the test.



requires Samurai Warlords Single Player version 8 (THIS fix makes that an MP version!)
Samurai_Warlords_MP_v8.2k8 (in the org's medieval beta file upload area (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/Samurai_Warlords_MP_v8.2k8.zip)
Just to clarify, SW beta8 supports both singleplayer and multiplayer using two different unit_prod files by the player selecting either the "smap_8" or "Samurai_Wars_MP" era. I can modifiy the unit stats in this new multiplayer unit prod file to generate the required singleplayer unit_prod file for the next beta9 version of the mod.

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

i thought mp in beta 8 desynced, hence my experiments - to get the new clans into MP

i cannot look at anything this moment,
does the new unit prod point at the correct horse anims?
samhorse and samhorse2 changed from looking at custom(x) to armhorse - or similar,
check if the change IS in the file i modified
:bow:

[Puzz3D]

i thought mp in beta 8 desynced, hence my experiments - to get the new clans into MP
MP in beta 8 does desync when playing battles with more than 2 players.



i cannot look at anything this moment,
does the new unit prod point at the correct horse anims?
samhorse and samhorse2 changed from looking at custom(x) to armhorse - or similar,
check if the change IS in the file i modified
:bow:
That was an error of omission on my part when editing the beta5 unit prod last night. I'll fix it.

"CUSTOM9, NO, YES" ALL_FACTIONS changed to "ARMHORSE, YES, YES" NO_FACTION

The SP unit prod will require extensive work if a new one is going to be developed from the MP unit prod because many changes were made to it since beta5.

Edit: I uploaded the fixed version. Same filename as before:

STW_MP12_unit_prod.rar (http://www.mizus.com/hosted/Yuuki/STW_MP12_unit_prod.rar)

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

:bow:
thanks, i'll adjust that upload later

is there a show error command line switch? (-showerr is not it)
:bow:

[Puzz3D]

There is no command line switch that I know of to show errors. There is an "error.log" file in the main game folder that logs some types of errors. There is a -D command line switch the enables a debug mode. It runs the game in a window, and activates some keys for debugging the SP campaign.

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

from what i can see the mongols are built into the mod, yet when i make them active the game crashes,
when hosting MP at "host game"
when SP custom battle at "continue" after choose clan, before choose army.

sufficient units exist to make up the mongol unit roster with nothing more than changing the unit religion in the unit prod,
but first need to activate the mongols as a faction - a file is probably missing...

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

I have activated the mongols, all seems ok so far.


i have 2 questions

1 - how to change a factions religion (simply changing the 2 values in the startpos file is not enough)

2 - where is the toggle for unit available/not available in mp

:bow:

[R'as al Ghul]

You can activate the Mongols as a faction that's called Mongols but you won't have any units different to the Japanese factions. Our intention always was to import the Mongol units from Shogun: The Mongol Invasion. Time didn't permit that yet. There are almost 30 Japanese clans in beta_8 and I don't think there's much point in having another one just for the sake of having a faction called Mongols that's not different from the others. Another problem with the Mongols is that they're very difficult to playbalance in MP. (There was much discussion already about that topic)

Changing the religion of a faction is a rather complex endeavour. There's a whole file structure for the different cultures/ religions and all the required files need to be there before it works.

Making a unit available only for MP works by using the "No_Faction" instead of the "All_Factions" or a specific faction trigger.

:bow:

R'as

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

gotcha
thanks
mongols added and activated with mongol units!@!@!@!
(kinda - i cheated ... a little bit, but you'll see)
you'll need to mod the stats to suit MP

uploading now
TMS

[R'as al Ghul]

Thank you very much for your work, Techno_Mage, I highly appreciate it.
:bow:

I only just now had the opportunity to test the files you uploaded in custom battle.
It all works for me and all the intended changes we made to beta_8 work in custom battles.
Prices for MP are right, the unit animations are correct in the new unit_prod, so all is fine.
You say that it works on 6 machines in a LAN which is great and sounds promising.
I'm eager to test this new setup.
Because I'm a perfectionist I wanted to delete the second set of STW units from the unit_prod but when I do that, the startpos doesn't show up in the list. This change seems to introduce an unspecified error. I can't have that, makes me mad because I want to understand it but I guess I've to live with it now. :wall:
I thought I could make a patch that overwrites the old beta_8 MP startpos and prod files so as not to introduce another era. People tend to get confused easily.....
I'd call the patch beta_8.1, release that as a simple installer and if enough people have it installed it could be tested on Saturdays and Sundays. That okay with everybody?
I know that the core group usually has multiple installs and should have a beta_8 install sitting on their HDs, ready to play.
It would be nice if you join us, too, Techno_Mage.

I think I'd like to keep the added improvised Mongol era seperate from that, with its own startpos and prod files.

Comments?

R'as

[Puzz3D]

Because I'm a perfectionist I wanted to delete the second set of STW units from the unit_prod but when I do that, the startpos doesn't show up in the list. This change seems to introduce an unspecified error.
I don't understand this because there is no second set of STW units in the unit prod file. There are two separate prod files; one for SP and one for MP.

[R'as al Ghul]

In the unit_prod that you posted in post #43, there're two sets of units, both are the same units but one is tagged "ALL_FACTIONS" and one "NO_FACTION".
That's also the case in Techno_Mage's unit_prod.

[Puzz3D]

Oh! That is an oversight on my part. As I recall, having the two sets of units in one unit prod file caused a problem, but I can't remember what the problem was. I intended to remove the SP units from what I sent TechnoMage. The SP units are the second set. The last two lines, STW_SamHorse an STW_Samhorse2 have to be kept, and there are some blank lines after that which I was also going to keep. Then I was going to create the other prod file for SP keeping all of the MTW/VI units but with no STW MP units.

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

all of my work is in your hands to tidy, balance and refine,
all i have done is use a lan (and max detail settings) to work out what was causing the desync bugs,

as a bit of fun i also took the opportunity, presented by Puzz's refined unit prod, to bring the mongols into the mod to add some fun
:bow:

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

one small thing needs fixing

in the unit prod,
the samhorse entries (last two)
the faction recolour section needs to be changed from "NO" to "YES"
otherwise the units lose faction colours during charge and combat.

[Puzz3D]

in the unit prod,
the samhorse entries (last two)
the faction recolour section needs to be changed from "NO" to "YES"
otherwise the units lose faction colours during charge and combat.
Ok. Thanks.