Demosthenes the General - 425 BCE

[Marshal Murat]

The "Demosthenes the General" is going to be a single-character, multiple choice alternate history (SCMCAH) based the Kraxis model. I hope you enjoy...

Athens, Attica, Spring 425
Demosthenes clenched the scroll in his hand, pacing back and forth in his courtyard. The orders weren't clear, but this wasn't Sparta, was it? The Assembly, they trusted their commanders to use their initiative. Then again, they trusted anything the demacrats said, if trust was the word. Trust wasn't something that was in great supply, stripped away by the ravages of the Plague. There were still some cases of the plague, nothing like the Great Plague five years before. It had appeared two years before, in the winter months. Then he'd had his commission, sent off into the mountains of Aetolia. The thoughts of those massacres still came to him, his hoplites butchered in the ravines, at the mercy of those Illyrian tribesmen. They never stood a chance, floundering in their armor through the bush and trees. The Aetolians were too fast. He'd redeemed himself later, in Ambracia. Blood for blood, his allies massacring almost the whole population of Ambracia, running them down like beasts in a hunt.

Now, he was going to join two other commanders, Eurymedon and Sophocles, and lead a fleet of warships to fix what Eurymedon had screwed up in Sicily. Demosthenes army had opened the way to Sicily. His efforts had secured bases from Piraeus to Corcyra, and from there the Athenian navy had sailed to Sicily, hoping to assist the city of Leontini against Syracuse. After some 'discussions', Eurymedon had dropped the conflict and sailed home. Demosthenes then listened as Cleon led the attacks on Eurymedon, charging bribery and corruption, leading the demos to cry for his head. Instead they got a pretty penny. The punishment fit the crime. Maybe it was a crime, but Demosthenes didn't care. Now his fleet was to sail from Piraeus to Sicily, raiding the Peloponnese on the way west.

His deliberations were interrupted by a knock on the door. With a finger snap, one of the slaves appeared and drew the door open. Demosthenes turned to appraise the visitor. A tall man, his body tanned, scarred by battle.
"Commander, I'm the Chief Naval Supply officer, down from the Admiralty in Piraeus. We have the expedition supplies in order, but we need your approval. If you have any changes, I'll run it by the other two commanders, and see if they approve it." With that he pulled a scroll from his cloak, and gave it to Demosthenes. Nodding quickly, the officer retreated back to his office in the port. Demosthenes also retreated into his study, reviewing the supply list. It was mostly in order, save for the amount of light troops. It seemed too few for this voyage, especially since they would be raiding, at least some. Experience in Aetolia told him he would need light troops, not hoplites and cavalry. No that would have to change...his forces wouldn't be facing Spartans, they would be marching through Attica.
That brought up another topic, one Demosthenes had been pondering. Where exactly would they raid? The naval powers of Athens enabled her forces to strike wherever, whenever. The navy, however, needed supply bases. They would be supplied from Aegina for the southern trip, and then Zacythus on the way north. However, the southern end of the Peloponnese would be trouble. Another valid point.
The warships, too, they would require commanders. While it was possible for the three generals to command the 40 warships, it was troublesome. The fleet of warships was composed of about 20 warships, light corvettes, double-banker cruisers, and triple-banker battleships. 5 supply ships, and 15 troop transports. Who would command what?
Demosthenes knew that Sophocles end Eurymedon would like to discuss this as well, along with Cleon. Tomorrow, for dinner. Until then, he would debate his choices.

Troop Roster

1 Company of Hoplites (300)
1 Company of Marines (300)
3 Platoons of Archers (75)
1 Platoon of Slingers (25)


1. 300 hoplites out of 800 soldiers, it seems to many heavy troops for this operation.
A. Argue for more archers (50) and Marines (150), reducing the heavy troops to 100.
B. Argue for more peltasts (100), archers (50), and slingers (50), reducing the heavy troops to 200.
C. Eliminate the hoplites entirely, replacing them with 150 Marines and 150 Peltasts.

2. Where in the Peloponnese will the armada raid?
A. Sparta and Laconia itself! Strike at the home of the Spartans, violate their sacred soil.
B. Megara, pay them back for allowing the Spartans to march through.
C. Raid Messenia, the home of the Spartan helotry.

Naval Roster

Warships 20
Supply Ships 5
Troop Ships 15


3. Which order would you place the naval forces?
A. Sophocles commands warships, Eurymedon and Demosthenes command either supply or transport
B. Eurymedon commands warships, Sophocles and Demosthenes command either supply or transport
C. Demosthenes commands warships, Eurymedon and Sophocles command either supply or transport

I'll answer any questions, and I plan on pushing this game through the initial stages. I will decide/obey orders by July 18th, and post a new chapter July 20th (GMT)

[seireikhaan]

1) C: replace the hoplites altogether with 150 peltasts and 150 marines. We're here on a raiding mission, not to engage in any kind of large battle. Lets get a lighter, more mobile army, and hit and run, keeping away from any significant army that will be thrown at us. We're on their territory, and so, even if we have a lot of heavy infantry, they will have many more than we could ever hope to field. Lets drop the dead weight.

2) C: Raid Messenia, home of the Spartan helotry. Civilized Greek society cannot function without Helots. We must hit their heart, their hard labor. We must either liberate the Helots, or if they refuse and wish to stay, slay them.

3) C. Demosthenes commands warships, Eurymedon and Sophocles command either supply or transport. Demosthenes seems to comprehend what this mission's really about. Therefore, I would judge it best to leave the warships under his command.

[King Kurt]

I would go for

1) B - this seems a more balanced force and it would be good to have a few hoplites to fall back on if the lights get into trouble. Also, the way I read it, this gives the most troops - 200 hoplites, 300 marines, 100 peltasts, 125 archers and 75 slingers.
2 and 3) - I am in agreement with makaikhaan - seems good choices to me.

[DemonArchangel]

1.) and 2.), what KK said.

3.), I disagree. An army marches on its stomach. Demosthenes should command the supply ships instead. The loss of a few warships means that the troop transports and supply ships could still flee.

[Marshal Murat]

Athens, Attica, Spring 425

Demosthenes licked his fingers, savoring the taste of olive oil and wine. The study-room held the three commanders and Cleon, all working off the dinner. The topic turned swiftly to the expedition, Cleon and Eurymedon squaring off immediately.
"What will you charge the Syracusans for this raid Eurymedon? Plan on buying a couple hundred acres?" Cleon began quickly, glaring at the commander.
"You know those charges were false, you goat-sucking demagogue! I never took any bribes from those Dorics." Eurymedon shot back.
"Of course you didn't, noble commander. The silver and gold appeared, like Poseidon's spring!" Cleon remained unmoved, the pleasure of tormenting Eurymedon too great.
"Shut-up you sheep-loving Spartans! We have serious issues to discuss. Like how much I'll get from the next bribe!" Sophocles patted Eurymedon on the arm, reassuring his fellow commander.
"There won't be any bribes, gentlemen, but there will be fighting," Demosthenes spoke up, calling the small assembly to begin serious discussion.
"Agreed, and as such, I propose that we not waste valuable resources pillaging the Peloponnese. How are we to intimidate the Sicilians if we don't have any capable men?" Eurymedon said.
"We are to carry the battle to the Lacedaemonians, as they have carried war to Attica. What harm is there, raiding? Pericles and his hoplites raided the Peloponnese constantly. We won't be facing crack Spartan Peers, and we can always retreat to our ships." Demosthenes replied.
"What happens if we are trapped like Aetolia? Was that so easy and painless eh Commander?" Eurymedon's statement cut to Demosthenes, fear returning as the infamous expedition was recalled to his mind.
"It was heavily armored hoplites against light peltasts and archers. Slingers and rangers! Hoplites cannot fight out of phalanx and expect to win! That is why I propose that reduce the hoplites by a hundred men adding a couple platoons of peltasts, archers, and slinger. We command speed, and they can always fall back on the hoplites if things get rough." Demosthenes replied, his voice stoic and solid. Tens mangled and broken in the bush, the primeval fear as his men raced back to the ships, shedding armor and shields.
"Eurymedon, you know, the hoplites cannot compete with the light raider. Why do you think we employ Rangers and peltasts, archers, slingers? They soften the hoplites, reducing their cohesion, breaking them." Sophocles added, hoping to add the light troops to the total.
"Pericles often carried hoplites with him to Megara, raiding those traitors!" Eurymedon replied, invoking the statesman who carried Athens through her initial years.
"Pericles is dead, Eurymedon, and so is the battle of the hoplite. We need all the hoplites we have for siege. We can spare the light troops." Cleon retorted, ending the debate. The light troops would be sailing.
"Well, if that's the case, I say that we strike at Messenia. We won't face the Peers there. We'll ravage those Spartan farms, incite the helots to revolt. Bring those oligarchs to justice." Eurymedon said, getting a nod from Cleon. The commanders nodded, the point settled quickly.

"Who will command the ships?" Demosthenes asked, earning a moment of silence.
"I think that, while Demosthenes has experience with light warfare, we should give the command of the warships to Eurymedon, the supply ships to me, and the transports to Demosthenes." Sophocles suggested, looking around at the assembled gentlemen.
"Demosthenes seems to understand this war better than you two, and hasn't yet taken a bribe from any Dorics. Why give the warships to a possible traitor?" Cleon stated, locking eyes with Eurymedon.
"You piece of shit, I'm NO TRAITOR!" Eurymedon roared, leaping up to rush at Cleon. Sophocles intercepted him, holding him back from Cleon, smiling as he watched the commander roar in fury.
"I would prefer to command the warships, yes." Demosthenes said, hoping to overwhelm Sophocles wit the threat of both Cleon and himself. Sophocles settled Eurymedon down first, then turned to Demosthenes.
"I don't believe that you have any of the skills necessary for a naval commander. I will command the warships. Since they are your light troops, I suggest you command the transports, and Eurymedon will command the supply ships." Sophocles replied quietly.
"I have just as much command experience as you do Sophocles, maybe more! I deserve the command of the warships."
"Just as true, Demosthenes. However, what use are warships worth on land?" Eurymedon stated in reply.
"I don't think that it's worth it, giving the command of the most important arm of Athens to the infantry commander. You, Cleon, don't trust Eurymedon with the warships, so why not trust him with some safe grain?" Sophocles said.
Demosthenes remained resolute, but eventually Cleon joined with Sophocles and Eurymedon. The vote was decided.

As the guests left, Demosthenes silently fumed about being given command of the transports. All fine, since he had been given the light troops. Hopefully they would make up for losing command of the warships. At least they were attacking Messenia, the least dangerous target. Now, as commander of the transports, he would, obviously, have to transport troops. Maybe some practice will ensure that the men are ready. He would probably exercise the men at Salamis, maybe Aegina. Should he invite Sophocles?
The sailing date was set, two weeks from today. The fleet was almost ready, still taking on additional gear and assembling the crews for the ships. Perhaps he could stop by the fleet depots and get some additional materials for the transports.
The final decision would be what to do about Eurymedon and Sophocles. He knew Cleon was more or less on his side. Was it out of genuine understanding or simply to get at Eurymedon? Demosthenes didn't know, but he did know that he would have to decide how to confront the two other commanders.

1.Training for amphibious operations.
A. Get the men assembled, train for amphibious operations on Salamis.
B. Why risk men and material? The men were trained fairly well, they would know what to do.
C. Train for amphibious operations with Sophocles and the fleet.

2. Transports
A. Purchase grappling hooks and boarding gear
B. Fix the transports up with additional sails
C. Don't worry about the transports

3. Sophocles and Eurymedon
A. Try to reconcile and get on with the mission
B. Don't worry about relations, they're fine the way they are
C. Talk to Cleon, request new commanders.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

If I could say something then ..

1.B 2.C 3.C

I would like to know what happens IF Demosthenes feels himself a bit over confident :beam:

[DemonArchangel]

1.) C. Any amphibious assault will have to be done in conjunction with the navy.
2.) B. Spare sails are useful, especially since transports don't have oars.
3.) A, the rationale being that it will take too much time to find new commanders, and that we need to get the raid ASAP.

[Marshal Murat]

Final Decision is gonna be July 22nd.

[AggonyDuck]

1C, 2B, 3A.

[Motep]

1: C ... same rationale as with Demon

2: A
I would say B, since there are a small number of transports, an attack by an enemy fleet could prove disastorous. At the very least, the extra speed could help you outrun enemy vessels for a safe retreat. But, Ill go with A, for if there is unfavourable wind, the transports can hope to capture enemy ships, and stave them off with a concerted effort.

3: A. Reconcile, there is no time to get new commanders, you must strike fast and hard!

[King Kurt]

I'm with Motep - C,A,A

[Marshal Murat]

New Chapter will be posted Tomorrow (July 24th).

It's going to be a big one as well, gonna give you guys some time to mull your decisions since I will be gone for a week. Just a heads up. :2thumbsup:

[Marshal Murat]

Straits of Salamis, Attica, 425 BCE

The oars crashed again into the sea, the crew working out the kinks in the timing. They were all very well trained, very experienced crews. That didn't mean there weren't errors. A couple close runs between transports and the battleships of the fleet, they weren't making Demosthenes feel any better about his situation. The boat rocked again, the oars crashing into the sea. The Straits was roiling as warships and transports turned in formation, working out kinks.
"Signal Sophocles to draw his battlewagons back. I want to see how well we can beach these mules." Demosthenes ordered the lieutenant, who used two flags to communicate with the admiral on the Medea. The reply was quickly translated.
"He's drawing back to give you operating room."

Ever since the dinner, Demosthenes had tried to patch things together with Sophocles and Eurymedon. The former was willing to see past differences. The latter was more stubborn, more antagonistic. He even seemed to hope for failure so he could claim some glory. Demosthenes hoped they weren't ever put in such a position.

The helmsman jerked the tiller, angling the transport back onto course. The transports were all heading for the shore, pebbled like the shores of much of Greece. The armed troops were standing on the deck, armed with ladders and gangplanks. The shore grew and grew as his transports raced in. They were in a line, the warships far behind, watching the converted ships drive for shore. With a crash the oars continued to thrash the sea, and then they were raised. Then they struck down again, slowing the transport, another crash and they had slowed the transport again. The entire ship braced as the ship ground into the beach.

Clattering and clanking, the gangplanks were lowered and ladders thrown over. Hustling over and out, the peltasts and slingers took the shore, followed by the Marines, and then the final group of hoplites. Demosthenes watched the organized chaos, the troops forming into contingents and marching onto the beach. Nodding at the success, Demosthenes ordered the men back aboard. Pulling off the beach, he drilled them several more times, each one as good as the last. They were well-trained. After he was satisfied the orders were drilled into them, Demosthenes ordered the transports back to the warships. They would work on formations.
"Signal to Sophocles that we will work on formations." The flags flew around.

Demosthenes watched the wreck in slow motion. They had run the drill twice before. The battleships would turn and pass through the line of transports to engage an imaginary foe behind them. This time, however, one of the battleships hadn't turned fast enough. The tiller had broken in mid-turn, the battleship trying to maneuver on oar-power alone. The transport helmsman had tried to avoid the battleship, but the drill was so close, he could only barely avoid striking the battleship amid-ships. With a crash and clatter, the transport broke tens of oars. The two ships then sheared, the oars splintering into little slivers. Chaos as marines and hoplites tried to swim in their armor. The two ships began to slowly sink, the crewmen dropping over the side as quickly as possible.
"Signal stop to all ships! Pull close to get the sailors!" Demosthenes yelled, stripping off his armor. Sophocles signaled the harbor to send out fishing craft to pick up anyone missed.

Piraeus, Attica, Spring 425 BCE

The warships, transports, and supply ships were all resting on the beach, waiting to be launched in the morning. Thousands of slaves, crewmen, shipwrights, Marines, and traders all worked to ready the ships. Demosthenes, Sophocles, and Eurymedon were all prowling amongst the fleet, checking on their crews. Demosthenes heard the rumbles from the crews, many discussing him. 'Demosthenes lost a thousand men in Illyria, trying to find glory!' 'Demosthenes was responsible for that accident. He wants the command of the warships. That was a warning to Sophocles!'. Demosthenes silenced rumors as quickly as possible, but what to do in the long term? He worried as the sun slowly rose, but he knew worrying wouldn't help. He'd just have to figure something out, soon.
The next few hours went quickly, the fleet readying and launching into the straits. Turning slowly, the fleet launched out to sea, driving southeasterly. The Aegina fleet was subdued by the Athenians, so there wasn't any current threat. They were scheduled to lay in at Aegina that night, and meet up with local Athenian guides.
"Let's go men! Sacrifices are completed, the auspices are good." Sophocles cried out from the small shore altar. With a shout the fleet shoved off into the sea.

Aegina, Aegean Sea, Spring 425 BCE
The shore was crammed with the warships and transports, the crews ashore drinking. Demosthenes was already preparing the route southward to Messenia, then to Corcyra. The Athenian guides were all experienced, but that wasn't the problem. The real problem was that once his men got to Messenia, what could they really do? They would be marching in, burning, inciting helots, then marching out. The Spartans did the same in Attica, and what good did that do? It wasn't helping the war against the Spartans. If the helots thought they could incite war against the Spartans, they would have done so. He just had to decide how to incite the war with the helots.
If he were to incite rebellion, how would he supply the helots? What guidance would they have?

1. What to do with the rumors about Demosthenes?
A. Get a priest to sacrifice a goat or two to get a good omen.
B. Announce to the men that you don't seek glory, just a victory over the Spartans. Give up command of the transports and tag along with Sophocles.
C. Have several of the gossipers executed for treason against the state.

2. What is the Messenia plan?
A. Raid, pillage, plunder. Don't worry about inciting them to revolt until return from Sicily
B. March in-land, incite rebellion. Assault Spartan garrisons, take the gear and give them over to the helots. Lead a guerrilla conflict against the Spartan forces
C. Land in Messenia, find a defendable naval base, and set up shop
D. Raid Gythium, port of Sparta, and take several ships, sail them to Messenia, and organize the ablest helots into companies and get them aboard. Sail thence to Corcyra, arm them, and lead them back on raids against Sparta.

3. Supplies for Messenia
A. If the guerrilla war, get supplies from Athenian convoys on scheduled days at locations.
B. If fort, retain several warships for supply and raid purposes
C. Don't worry about supplies. Take from the Spartan farms, and get the helots with you.

OOC: I'm gonna be gone for a week, so don't worry if you think this has gone dead. It's not you, it's me :2thumbsup:

[Sarathos]

1.C.) To keep the men loyal those who speak against must be punished. This will keep the men fearful and controlled, it will also stop further incidents occuring the in future.

2.B.) Attacking Spartan garrisons will give the men good experience in battle and in guerrilla tactics as well as showing the helots how it is done. Arming the helots with Spartan weaponing familirizes them with the enemy as this equipment is freely available.

3.A.) Though this plan is rather dangerous, you can't fight a war without supplies.

[King Kurt]

For the first 2 I am with Sarathos - i.e. C and B - i also agree with his reasoning.

For 3, I would propose C - this is the least complicated version and helps stir up things. Living off the land is par for the course for this style of warfare. Leave the more complicated logistics for specialised things like weapons, armour etc.

[Franconicus]

Great new interactive! Well done, M.M.!

Well, I know little about that time and region, so may I ask a few questions before I participate?

1) We have a small army of well trained soldiers. We also control the sea. Our target is Sicily, on the way we will attack Messinia as a kind of intermezzo, right? By the way, what are marines in that time?
2) The commanders do not fit together well. The soldiers do not believe in our skills.
3) What do we know about the political situation? What are our allies, what are the allies of the enemy (Sparta, right?) What are neutrals and what is their position?
4) What is the military situation at Sicily?

As far as I can see we have three issues. We must have a clear command structure, we must get the loyalty of the soldiers and we must have a plan.

This is my idea. We must find some soft points of the enemy to make some easy points. Soldiers will follow theirs leaders as long as they get victories. The raid against Messenia will increase their trust in us and believe in their own strength.
Then we should invade Sicily. I would like to start with a raid against a soft point far a way from our real destination. Let’s strike hard with all our men. Another victory! Maybe we can recruit some auxiliaries there. Burn down everything that tries to resist us! The news about our invasion will spread soon.
Then divide the troops. Leave commander E. with a small platoon (maybe 40 lights) and sail to our main target. E has the mission to move quickly, destroy the backyard of the enemy. collect local support and attract the main army of the enemy. He will keep the impression of an invasion. He has to move fast to avoid any battle.
The main army will sail to the main target. Commander S will take the ships, while we command the troops. Then we should try to attack a major city, maybe we can take one by surprise (they should think our army is far away). Then the fleet sails back to pick up E.

My votes?
Here they are:

1A. Get a priest to sacrifice a goat or two to get a good omen. There is no good in punishing soldiers because they do not believe in our skills. We should focus on killing the enemy, not our soldiers!
2A. Raid, pillage, plunder. Don't worry about inciting them to revolt until return from Sicily. Easy victories is what we need. No time to waste, no men to waste. This is just the prelude.
3C. Do not worry about supply at all. Should we decide to leave a garrison here, which is something I do not support, then leave commander E, too.

[Reverend Joe]

I'm going with Franconius on this: A, A, C.

And I like the interactive as well. :2thumbsup:

[DemonArchangel]

AAC for the win.

[Marshal Murat]

Hello Gents! (and any ladies)

I'm back, and I will be updating around 1600 or 1700 EST with information previously requested.
I will then work on next chapter, and update that around 1900 EST.

[Marshal Murat]

1. The expedition to Sicily is intended to prevent the Syracusans from providing their sister states in Doric Greece with corn and provisions easily found on the island of Sicily. When the Athenians first landed in Rhegium and marched around, they failed to take the city of Syracuse, and suffered some setbacks. Laches sends word to Athens about the situation in Sicily, and the Athenians equip 40 ships to assist the war in Sicily (still a small theater). The main concentration of Athenians is around Rhegium, Lipari Islands, and northern Sicily. Doric forces are concentrated along the Eastern coast and southern Sicily.
a. Marines would be something of the ‘gray area’ between peltasts speed and hoplite arms. They would wear leather cuirass, open helms, a thrusting spear, two darts, and a hoplon shield.

2. Is that a statement or question?

3. See Map

https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee125/Tokugawa141/PelopponesianWar.jpg

4. See 1

[Franconicus]

Thank you!

Just one more question:
What about money? How much gold do we have for our campaign?

[Marshal Murat]

This campaign's treasury is adequate for providing supplies for the troops, repairing any ships, and ensuring troop pay. There is some extra cash on hand for anything that will arise, and the generals have some more personal money to use, and Demosthenes can always appeal to Cleon for cash. I'm not in a position to say "Demosthenes has 10 talents in gold, 5 gold ingots, etc."

[Franconicus]

So no money to buy allies or bribe enemies.:scared:

[Marshal Murat]

Will be updating this thread. Expect a new chapter on Friday....

Whoooohohooo!

[Marshal Murat]

Messenia Raid

Pylos, Ionian Sea, Spring 425 BCE, Morning
Demosthenes could see his Marines in the leading ships, ready to meet any opposition on the shore. Luckily, the island was deserted. His flotilla was one of many Athenian convoys, sailing across the Aegean and Ionian seas, driving away pirates and fighting of Athenian independence. There was another Athenian fleet on it's way to Corcyra, hoping to beat a Spartan fleet there. The war never stopped. Demosthenes fleet didn't either. He was proud of the small religious ceremony in Aegina. The gods had given him a good goats, their entrails were favorable, and the fleet was ready to push on. There had been some rumblings before the men found out Demosthenes had picked the sacrificial goats. If the gods favored his choice of an omen, they must favor him. Demosthenes turned and spoke to Sophocles.

"So, are you still gonna write a play about our little sacrifice?" Demosthenes said nonchalantly, prodding Sophocles honor.
"Of course. The audience would eat that up." Sophocles replied, tugging at his beard as he watched the first warships beach. The Spartans were not there, still in Attica. The landings were unopposed. Now, into Messenia.

"Don't stay too long, Demosthenes. We've got to leave in two days. Now, get on with it. We'll hold here." Eurymedon said, pulling his helmet down. The rest of the fleet moved to beach the ships.
"Let's get this over with."

Helot farm, Messenia, Spartan Territory, Spring 425 BCE
Demosthenes stood with the helots, staring at the small map they drew in the dirt. His contingent of troops were 150 marines, 50 hoplites, slingers, and archers, and 100 peltasts, lounging outside the farmhouse, eating what food was available, enjoying the small fruits held by the helots. (400 total troops )
"What sort of Spartan forces are we looking at?" Demosthenes asked, pointing to the rocks that symbolized the Spartan forces.
"We found almost a hundred trainees and instructors to the north, called in to suppress another helot insurrection. Then Sparta heard about your expedition. They sent almost 500 Spartan troops from the East, followed by 800 Corinthian, Tagean, and Laconian troops." The helot was very old, his beard snowy white, his skin tanned and scarred.
"How many helots can we get from your tribes here?" Demosthenes asked, scanning the small map again.
"We have about 600 helots ready for arms, but many are without weapons. There would be more, but some of us wonder if you are staying or not. We had hoped you could provide us with more gear, to carry on a general conflict."
"We don't have any surplus on us, so we can't give you anything now. When we return, however, we can get you more supplies, more weapons."
"You don't plan on staying?" The helot looked surprised.
"No, we must get on to Sicily."
"Well, then why should we help you, if you don't plan on staying? We risk death every day, especially these days. We can help you, but don't count on a friendly return reception. We are but humans."
"I know, I know."

Messenia Road, Messenia, Spring 425 BCE
"Captain, there aren't any helots here. The scouts, they found nothing."
The Spartan captain looked over the flat plain ahead, broken by large irrigation ditches and small farmhouses.
"The scouts are children. Take them back out, and take the swords. We'll root out those slaves and give them a what for." The captain snapped at the salpinx player who piped a call.
Demosthenes watched from a farmhouse as the Spartans marched from the road down into the fields of grain and corn. They were mostly boys, just before their induction into the Spartan army.
"Alright, when they pass the second ditch, blow." Demosthenes ordered the helot, who held a large horn in his hands. The helot saluted, and Demosthenes descended from the loft and down into the farmhouse. There his marines and hoplites stood, ready to fight.
"Don't take any prisoners. Don't worry, they are farmboys." Demosthenes pulled down his helm, and led the 200 soldiers. The field was cut horizontally by five irrigation ditches, the farmhouse was behind the fifth. The Spartans were crossing in a large block, going across the second ditch. The third was dry, filled with peltasts.
The horn filled the air, and the peltasts rose as one. Hurling darts and javelins, they skewered many of the boys and captains. The peltasts broke left and right. Motioning forward, Demosthenes led his men at a walk, easily passing over the irrigation ditches. The fourth ditch was filled with slingers, who appeared and began to fire off stones, striking the company of Spartans, who began to slow and fall apart.
They broke and scattered off like the peltasts. The armed companies behind Demosthenes watched as they crossed the ditch, and faced off against the Spartan youthes. They were woefully underequipped, but threw themselves forward. The spears thrust forward and out, shields battering down the boys. They were like dogs, and were slaughtered. Demosthenes took out quite a few. His men took minimal casualties, and as the boys ran they were cut down by the peltasts, slingers, archers, and helots who joined the fight. It was too easy.

Pylos, Ionian Sea, Spring 425 BCE
The armies of Athens sat near their ships, waiting to leave. The helots were given any weapons taken, and arsenals were broken into. Now the helots spread anarchy, hoping to draw the Spartan army to Messenia. The fleet had avoided a storm, and was about to leave, laden with food, wine, and a new sense of ability. The night was young, and the generals sat to discuss their options.
"I don't think we should leave. I've done alot here. The helots are ready to revolt." Demosthenes argued.
"Don't worry about them. They will be perfectly fine. We will return, and we will lead the helots against the Spartan army." Eurymedon replied.
"We have our orders, we will be carrying them out." Eurymedon carried on, "We just have to decide where to land."
"What where we should strike first." Sophocles added.
"Who we should befriend." Eurymedon tacked on finally.

Decisions...
Where to strike? Where to Land?
https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee125/Tokugawa141/sicily_map.gif

[Franconicus]

Where to strike? Where to land?


Tricky! There are 6,000 soldiers of Athens against 11,000 men of Syracuse. Our small detachment won’t change things fundamentally.

There are also 6,000 Carthaginians. However, neither Athens nor our local allies will be pleased if we ally with them.

Alright, let’s see what we can do!

Our task is to stop the supply of grain for Sparta. We will probably not be able to assault Syracuse. However, there is another way. I think we should try to secure our superiority over the waves by sinking every Syracuse ship. Further more we should burn down the harvest as well as farms, harbors etc.. This should be possible with our small task force and enough to reach our goals.

I guess our way from Greece will lead us to the shores of southern Italy first. Let’s get in contact with the local Greek cities there. Invite them to join our alliance and the war against Syracuse. Argue, that Athens and her allies guarantee free trade and that the fall of Syracuse would increase wealth and power of the Greek cities at southern Italy. Point at the fact that Athens is close enough to support her friends, but has absolutely no ambitions in that region! Athens has to fight Sparta, and that is the only reason why we are here.

Maybe we can get new allies. This would please the people of Athens and strengthen our army. Maybe we can get more ships, troops and gold!

Then we should stop at Liparian Isles to repair our ships and to get in contact with the commander of the fleet there. He does not know about our orders (even we do not) and maybe we can make him support our little adventure. Maybe he can accompany us on the way south. Together we could penetrate the harbor of Syracuse and sink everything we find. This would be enough to secure our naval dominance during our campaign.

Our main target should be the southern coast. Invade Pachynus first. Don’t know, if it supports Syracuse, but we should gain it or at least burn it. Then let’s jump back into the boats and attack Camerina and Gela. Gela could be the starting point for a small mission for General E. He could land with 40 lights and march across the island to Enna, Agyrium, Aetna and Catane. His goals are to attract the Syracuse army and to gather allies. At Catane he could be picked up by our navy.

The main troops should sail back to the eastern part and invade Catane and Leontini. If we were successful, we have some new allies and the main part of the southern Syracuse army is down south. Then we should block the garrison of Messana: Our detachment blocks the road to Syracuse. We can build our defense along the river south of Leontini. The Athenian army can block Messana itself, while our northern fleet blocks the harbor. Although we are outnumbered, there is the chance that we can make them surrender or at least make them give up Messana.

One word to our troops: We have only few heavy soldiers, and this could become a problem. At Sicily, we will see cavalry – and we do not have any! Our light troops will hardly stand a cavalry charge, so we have to depend on our hoplites. We must keep this in mind and try to hire some cavalry!

[Franconicus]

What's up? Did I say something wrong?:cry:

[Marshal Murat]

I was hoping for more participation....

[DemonArchangel]

The only problem is that what Franc said is so spot on, that it can't be argued with. I agree with him.

[Franconicus]

So the games stops because I am too - smart?:scared:
So it happened again!

Jokes asise - there must be someone out there with much better ideas!! Come on!

[Marshal Murat]

I've just read Peloponnesian War by Donald Kagan (again!), and I've decided I'll give this another shot. It's unfair of me to penalize Franc for making a wise decision. So I'll take your suggestion, and hopefully I'll have a (large???) update by next week. I'll see how this works out.

:2thumbsup:

[Franconicus]

Great!
Go on!!!!

[Prince Cobra]

In few weeks I can also join.

[Marshal Murat]

Rhegium, Italy, Spring 425 BCE
Demosthenes followed the friendly Senator as he weaved his way across the Rhegium agora. Surrounding Demosthenes was the alien town, bustling in strange colors and with strange customs. There were Greeks, but also Italians like the Etruscans, Sabines, and Samnites. There were Carthaginian traders, Spanish and Gaulish merchants. All crowded into this one agora. Spectacular. Demosthenes pressed on through the heaving crowd as he followed the Senator (who moved very fast for someone approaching 70), who arrived before the open bronze doors of the Rhegium Senate.
"Wait here, I'll announce you." That was all the Senator said as he disappeared into the seats of Senators of Rhegium. Quickly a herald appeared and announced loudly, hushing the assembled Senators.
"General Demosthenes of Athens to speak before the Senate."

Demosthenes strode in boldly, his blue cape lined with chasing dolphins dragging on the marble floor. The Senators eyed him quietly, sizing up the Athenian warmaker before he ever began to speak. Demosthenes stopped in the middle of the semi-circle of Senators and put his hands behind his back. (Deep breath)
"Senators of Rhegium, I come from Athens, and I come in peace. I'm leading with my two generous commanders a naval armada to defeat the threat of Syracuse and bring peace to the island of Sicily and her surrounding environs. My armada of 50 ships is no great fleet to subdue you or any honest Greek city-state. We are protecting our allies in Sicily, as you would your allies. We are humble supplicants, asking for your help in protecting Sicilians from the Syracusans, by lending us soldiers and ships to drive the Syracusans from their ill-gotten gains and restoring them to the, to use your tongue, "ante-bellum" situation. If you do not seek to assist us, it will be your loss when we divide up the spoils of Syracuse to all those she wronged on this island and beyond. Thank you Senators."
Demosthenes then bowed and looked to exit by the bronze doors, but the two heralds shook their heads, and Demosthenes turned to the assembled Senators.
"Demosthenes, why have you really come here? What is your purpose in this part of the world?"
"I'm here, Senator, to prevent the tyranny of Syracuse. Leontini has asked for our help, and we are here to assist."
"Surely, Demosthenes, you heard of the Congress of Gela? Sicily is at peace."
"Ah, yes, that false peace. If that is so, then why does Syracuse need allies in Messana? Why do Syracusans hold other Greeks in bondage? We are here, by order of the Athenian Congress, to drive Syracusans from their hostage cities, to defeat Syracuse and her allies, and to liberate the Greeks from the Syracusan yoke."
"I think Demosthenes this is simply Athenian imperialism, taken to a new level. Far from your stomping grounds in the Aegean, aye Athenian?"
If I was here to conquer Greeks and expand the Athenian hegemony, then I would've brought more ships.
Thank you, Demosthenes, that is all
Demosthenes strode out, head high as the Senators began to deliberate.

Athenian Naval Depot on Lipari Islands, Spring 425 BCE
The ships were all cantered on the shore, being scrubbed clean by her crews. Today was a day of light duty as the transports, troop transports, and warships were all being cleaned up and polished. Demosthenes was still in Rhegium, assembling and drilling the soldiers of Italy. Rhegium figured out they had more to gain from this war than to sit on the side-lines. They and their allies ended up providing almost 5,000 soldiers along with 30 warships of various conditions. Now Sophocles, Eurymedon, and Demosthenes' 2nd, Alexander, were all working out the details of their next move.
"We can't move too many men from Himera. The Carthaginians would move in, especially if they see Sicily's strongest forces bleeding each other dry. We head inland, get more troops, and then hit Messana. Link up with Demosthenes, head south." Sophocles proposed first.
"I say we move south to Pachynus, down south. Hit there, move west, to Camerina. We then drop me off with enough soldiers, and then we'll march across Sicily to Leontini. Show how really impotent these Syracusans are, even in their back yard." Eurymedon proposed.
"We move to the Greek fort, demonstrate against Messana, and then Demosthenes hits them from the harbor while they watch the land troops." Alexander proposed.

Syracuse Senate
Midas, a Carthaginian trader and "friend of Athens" watched the deliberations of the Syracusan Congress, as most Syracusans were. The Syracusans were afraid, angry, and ready to fight. Not surprising, really, but that's what they were. Hemocrates, the "genius of Gela" stood before the assembly as he decried the "Imperialism of Athens" and the "Debauchery of the Italians". He knew how to stir up a crowd, and the Syracusans were already mad. Midas took notes, careful notes, as he watched. Two paymasters wanted this information, and he had to get one unbiased copy at least. Hemocrates finally got to what Midas wanted. The call-up.
"We Syracusans must gather our armies, our navies, our allies, and prepare for the coming struggle. Therefore, I propose we call up all levels of soldiers in Syracuse. We send embassies to our allies, to prevent the Tyranny of Athens, we build ships, and we appeal to Sparta and Corinth. Onward, my friends, for today we see the beginning of the Athenian downfall."

Choices - You can open these to interpretation within the general framework.
1. Sophocles Plan
2. Eurymedon Plan
3. Alexanders Plan

[King Kurt]

Welcome back Marshall - good to see this IH back.

I like the look of Alexander's plan - quite simple and makes good use of our best asset - the mobility given to us by the fleet. Messana is the target, so let's not mess about with other things. The fort and the fleet give us a route out if necessary.

[Franconicus]

Yes, it is nice to see it running again.

And it is nice to see that our little platoon grew to an army, now.:yes:
Are there any details about our troops? Do we have information about the stregth and destribution of the enemy's navy?

I assume that we command all Greek forces on the map, right?

So now we have an army equal to the army of the enemy. That is good. Yet, Messana is strongly fortified and has a good garrison. We would get a bloody nose attack them from the land or the see side.

Therefore, I would make some other proposals, although I am still uncertain and open for any idea.


First of all, we should send the message we have from the Suracusians to Athens. Tell them that Syracuse is preparing a powerful campaign with strong land and sea forces. This will underline the importance of our mission and maybe give us some golden gifts. Also tell the senate that we found new allies.

About Messana: although this is not the goal of our campaign, we should think about taking it. As I said before, every direct attack is in vane. Therefore, we should try to cut them off. The pro is, that the strong garrison has to be supplied. The con is, that Messana could be supplied be the sea route.

Therefore, we must destroy the fleet of our enemies!!!!
There are three other good reasons for this. First of all, destroying the ships of the enemy will end the grain supply for Sparta, which is our main target. Second, after sinking all the enemy's ships, we will have free hands for the rest of our adventure. Last, but not least, let's make our new allies fight immediately. A naval victory and they will hardly want to change sides. Furthermore they would benefit from the victory, too.

Therefore I say find the ships of the enmy and sink them. I assume that the main squad is at Syracuse, therefore we should attack them there. So go for it and do it now, before they get the fleet alert!!

In the meanwhile our army can start to block from the land side. If we destroy the enemies fleet - which we will if KK commands it - then we can extend our efforts.
We should build one ring around Messina. Fortify our fort and 2,000 men are enough to defend it.
Then we should land south at Leontini with 5,000. This will force the cities there to join us and we can build another line of defence along the river to stop all troops coming from Syracuse.

A final raid to the southern coast to distract the enemies attantion and to release us from unpleasant company.

How about that?

At this point, we should make peace offers! We do not want to conquer this part of the world - not yet I mean.

[King Kurt]

Is it only me and Franc that like playing as Greeks???

[DemonArchangel]

I've been busy. I'll play next chapter.

[Marshal Murat]

I''ll be posting the next chapter in a day or two, since my school has slacked off as of late and I'll have time.

[Csargo]

I think Alexander's plan is the best option.

[Marshal Murat]

Greek Fort, Summer 425 BCE Day 1
Sophocles and Eurymedon watched from the ramparts as the troops marched in. About 3,000 men were marching to complement the 2,000 man garrison, another 2,000 troops on the road from Himera under Alexander. The Syracusan and Messenian troops were watching them, mounted and swift, ranging across the rolling hills of Northern Sicily. Local allied Sicels had driven many of the mounted menaces from their territory, but they were still hindering operations, especially reconnaissance and foraging. Luckily the warships were still operating, constantly bringing supplies from the Lipari Naval Depot and Rhegium, with the complements of Demosthenes.
"We're going to need to bring up horsemen from somewhere. These mounted troops have made us blind in the face of the Messenians. I have it from Leontini sources that the territory down south is even worse for hoplitry." Sophocles shaded his eyes as he watched the sun set, listening to the steady clank-clank of armor and sandals.
"Obviously, but how we're going to get them and pay for them is a problem. We need those troops, and the local Greeks know that too! They're gonna jack up the price since they know we're desperate for the cavalry," said Eurymedon.
"That doesn't mean we can't get them. We'll get them somehow. Once Messana is captured, we'll deal with the problem." Sophocles said, and gulped silently.

Greek Fort, Summer 425 BCE, Day 2
The Messanian troops had arrived about mid-day. Thousands of Messana troops were arrayed in a battle formation across the plain from the Greek Fort, watching the Athenian troops from behind a light screen of cavalry. The two generals and the men marched out under the ramparts, the Athenian troops leading on the right, about 2,000 men assembled. The center was held by 500 Mylae hoplites, and the left by 2,000 Athenian, Lipari, and Corcyran marines, the additional 500 peltasts ranging before the line of Allies.
"6,000 Messanian troops, mostly hoplites. About 1,000 peltasts and 500 cavalry are included. I advise we hold off until Alexander arrives."
"Goat-shit Eurymedon. We've got the numbers to hold off the hoplites. We'll attack."
"Alexander's troops will give us an edge, especially with the numbers they have."
"What happened to the 4,000 original troops in Messana?" Eurymedon asked.
"I think the Messanian troops pulled one over on us. Trying to split our men up before we can link up."
Sophocles replied.
"Well, what are we going to do?"
"Attack".

Sophocles pulled out 1,000 Athenian troops, holding them behind the right flank, as Eurymedon commanded the line of hoplites and marines. The whole line advanced in cadence, the Messanian troops marching forward to meet the bronze line. The plain of battle rumbled with the marching footsteps, the two lines shifting in battle as they prepared to meet. The horsemen rushed to try and disrupt the lines, but were driven back by peltasts. The Messanian peltasts rushed forward, but were met by another volley of javelins and the rushing Allied peltasts. Releasing a volley they retreated behind the line of Messanian hoplites, who continued the advance. The Messanian horsemen rallied with the peltasts, moving behind the right flank of the Messanian advance, facing the 2,000 Allied marines. Sophocles saw the move and stopped his hoplites, and turned them and marched to the far flank. The lines closed in closer, the men leveling spears quickly.
Sophocles saw the Marines ready, but they were unsteady, even before the clash. His men marched a little quicker, moving down behind the line. Then the lines closed. Eurymedon and the Athenian hoplites smashed together with Messanian troops, lighter provincial troops. The Messanian right smacked into the Marines, who fought back as best they could. Sophocles dressed his line, watching, waiting. Then the Marines broke and the Messanian light troops gave chase through and around the Messanian line. The Athenian hoplites marched forward into the routing Marines. The Messanians had split up to allow the horsemen and peltasts through, seeing an easy victory. Then hundreds of Athenian hoplites appeared, marching forward in full battle panoply. Bronze shields glittered and spearpoints struck. The peltasts and horsemen were surprised to see them so close. Sophocles had held the men back because he supposed the horsemen would strike the critical right flank, but he assumed his right flank. The Messanian troops saw the pre-battle dispositions and knew what Sophocles was up to, so the horsemen changed flanks. The marching had obscured the Athenian march to their left, hiding Sophocles and his men until the Messanian troops were breaking through the Marines. Then like a thunderbolt the Athenians appeared, troops of a veteran caliber, striking the Messanians where they least expected it. The Messanian right and left broke, falling back to Messania or whatever refuge they could take. The horsemen suffered the most, riding pell-mell into what they thought were retreating Marines only to fall on the spears of Athenian hoplites.
The Battle of the Greek Fort was over as the cavalry screened the Athenians from pursuing any farther.

Messania, Summer 425 BCE, Day 3
Demosthenes and the Rhegium troops and ships had sheltered behind a squall line as they approached the harbor, hiding their approach. The Syracusans had reinforced their northern city, hoping to prevent the straits from falling to the Athenians. They had failed, as Demosthenes heard from a recent dispatch carrier, sent by Sophocles from the Greek Fort. The Messanians had sent out their whole army to defeat the Allies, or contain them while Syracuse sought out Demosthenes with their fleet. The Messanians had succeeded, even though they had suffered casualties in the action. The Athenians were making slow headway against the thickening screen of cavalrymen, who bowed back under the Athenian advance. Eurymedon and Sophocles had hired some cavalry, but they weren't able to advance as quickly as they had hoped. No matter, Demosthenes thought as he waited for the squall to drive in to shore. The ships weren't suffering too much, the Rhegian ships built for this weather. The Syracusans had sent their fleet northward, their ships at par with his fleet at the moment, but they had failed to find him. So they were in Messania, waiting out the squall. Demosthenes watched and waited as his ships slid closer and closer to the harbor entrance. The walls were shoddy, and poorly manned despite the news of Demosthenes leaving port. They failed to appreciate his sense of timing.
The Messanian sentry watched with horror as the Rhegian ships splashed against the sea-wall. Inside, the Syracusan fleet was tied up or beached, waiting out the lashing squall. The sentry sought to raise the alarm, but was cut short by a swift Rhegian arrow. Several marines scaled the wall and secured the harbor entrance. Rain cut down and a howling wind heralded the arrival of Demosthenes into Messania.

Messania, Summer 425 BCE, Day 12
The city of Messania was captured, the Messanian and Syracusan cavalry driven southward beyond Catania and Leontini, held at bay by the active patrolling of the Athenian allies. Demosthenes and the other Generals had assembled an army of 12,000 men in Messania with nearly 80 warships of various sizes and descriptions. The loot taken from the Syracusans significant, ensuring that the stretch of coast from Messania to Leotini was either held in alliance of peaceful and benign neutrality. The war was looking up. The three generals mulled over the next decision...

Sophocles: "I strongly suggest we set up a serious base here in Messania, send out calls for allies of Athens against Syracuse. We assemble a force that can both invest Syracuse for a siege, and also ensure that no other Sicilian city-state turns against us."

Eurymedon: "We move now, striking south to Syracuse. We invest the city, turn the aristocracy against the public, and pull down the city from the inside out."

Demosthenes: "I say we assemble troops in Leotini, send emissaries to the various city-states asking for support, appear that we are waiting for more help. We then send the bulk of our forces around to western Sicily, to Pacyhnus or Gela, attack and capture those cities, and then move in against the Syracusan state.

[Franconicus]

Hooray! Great news - great victory!

How to go on?
Once again, I have a different view than the commanders. A great man once said that after a victory it is time for diplomacy. Let's go!

We have been sent here to end the support for Sparta, not to conquer new colonies, not to get involved into a neverending campaign. Our allies are uncertain - they do not want us dominating the island - and there is also Carthage.

So, here is my proposal.

Send an ambassador to Syracuse. Bring him the greetings from Athens as well as our respect for the good fight and our regreds that so highly civilized people have to fight each other.
Let's end war. As we are on top, we will suggest the conditions:

1) We give back Messana as well as all POWs.
2) All fortifications of Messana will be destroyed and stay destroyed.
3) Syracuse will deliver her navy.
4) Syracuse will pay us an annual tribute, big enough to hinder them from building a new fleet immediately, but not so high that they have to suffer or cannot defend against any enemy.
5) This Syracusian politician who argued against Athens will be delivered to us, too.
6) Athens will retreat from the island, but stay allied with the other Greek cities.

This agreement would have plenty of pros. We can concentrate back to the man war, while all support for Sparta is gone. Syra simply does not have the ships and will have to care for his own business. Our Italian allies will be pleased, Syra is weakened, their ships will dominate and they have to agree that there is no threa from Athens.

Then we sail back with our prisoner, new tribute and new allies.

In case Syra does not agree, our allies will see that it is necessary to go on fighting. Then we have to attack the fleet of Syracuse. Without the fleet, it is only a question of time until they have togive in.

[DemonArchangel]

Hmm... Once again, Franconicus is right, but partially. I suggest diplomacy, but to pursue an alliance with Carthage. If the Carthaginians help us against Syracuse and Sparta in exchange for the whole of Sicily afterward, everyone wins.

[Franconicus]

Hmm... Once again, Franconicus is right, but partially. I suggest diplomacy, but to pursue an alliance with Carthage. If the Carthaginians help us against Syracuse and Sparta in exchange for the whole of Sicily afterward, everyone wins.

No, we loose our Italian allies. They won't be pleased by a Carthagian superpower.

[DemonArchangel]

Or we could arrange to divide up Syracuse's territory amongst our Italian allies if they help us destroy them.

[Franconicus]

Is there anything coming here?