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Vuk
02-14-2009, 13:26
Simple name, simple plan.
The mod's aim will be simply to create more realistic gameplay. I have made such mods tweaking damage, running speed, reload speed, combat speed, missile capacity and range, price, bouncing patterns for cannons, and many other variables for all the other total war games so that I could enjoy a custom experience that was as close to real as could be achieved with the engine. I also cut units out and once even added a unit to do so, but generally left what they had. I made these mods only for myself however and my family, so this time, I think that I will release my rework to the public.
I will have to wait till I have played through the game several times as all of the factions before I can have an exact plan of what to do, but here are things that I will be concentrating on:

Reload time - realistic reload time, real life was balanced, so a game can be too without being unrealistic.
Movement speed - for infantry, cavalry, artillery, and naval units.
Range - again, as realistic as can be for the guns that are being used.
Damage - during this period one shot even if in the leg could often kill, and one to the head or torso nearly always did. This will be represented.
Accuracy - This will be a big balancer that will really make a difference between professional and non professional armies. The main difference will of course be between the firearms used, but the small difference between a professional and a semi professional soldier can make a large difference with the outcome of the battle.
Realistic Melee Combat Speed - something that no Total War game yet has been able to nail down.
A semi-realistic Naval Combat Model - this means things like no sailing against the wind. I am not a naval expert, but I will do my best to make this aspect of the game as realistic as possible, and will ask advice where I can.
Formation Densities - something that I have not seen realisticly represented in many of the screens so far.
Cost - Things that were massive Imperial investments will be in this mod.
All Fantasy Units will be KILLED - All of them.
Special Units such as Roger's Rangers will be removed and replaced with such generic units that respective factions can train, but will not be Uber. - fantasy units will not be added in their place.
Elephants and horsemen will be made realistic - Their combat roles will be forced to match what they were in real life.




Rebalancing a game for realism is an extremely long and tedious process, and requires very, very many hours of research and game testing. Also, I have a very busy schedule (I am in a Hungary studying now and will be working and studying when I go home for the summer) and not as much time as I would like to devote (and I am working on a M&B mod), so I will present no time frame for this mod or even say for sure if I will release it. It is a plan though that hopefully I will complete. (As I plan to do it for myself anyway, I cannot stand playing an unrealistic game)

Vuk

Allu X
02-15-2009, 02:48
Okay I have to agree that knowing CA we aren't going to get a balanced game, - makes modding more fun to be honest, however I do think this game will be more 'polished' than latter games in the franchise.
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Reload time - realistic reload time, real life was balanced, so a game can be too without being unrealistic.

I think the reload time will be already pretty solid since the reload animations are true to how it would be done in reality. Therefore, unless the animations are ridiculously slow for some reason, I doubt this would need to be done.

I think however, what should be shown is the reload rate of muskets compared to rifles. And smaller ship vessels, compared to the large flag ships with a lot more guns.
_______________________________________________________________

Movement speed - for infantry, cavalry, artillery, and naval units.

I think the main factor that will need to be changed is Naval units since is new to all of us, - especially changing how the speed varies in the wind. The others should be pretty sound since CA have had so many games in the past to perfect it.
_______________________________________________________________

Range - again, as realistic as can be for the guns that are being used.

I think perhaps range should be re-looked at, and changed accordingly so I agree here, - especially nailing the difference between muskets and rifles.
_______________________________________________________________

Damage - during this period one shot even if in the leg could often kill, and one to the head or torso nearly always did. This will be represented.

The problem with changing damage is that no matter what the number is, it'll never be realistic, since it does not base off range, or 'where' the bullet lands. At least not to our knowledge - if you make the damage too high then there will hardly be any wounded soldiers, something there was a lot of - and if too little then the time it takes to kill a single soldier becomes far-fetched.
_______________________________________________________________

Accuracy - This will be a big balancer that will really make a difference between professional and non professional armies. The main difference will of course be between the firearms used, but the small difference between a professional and a semi professional soldier can make a large difference with the outcome of the battle.

Accuracy should be represented to show the difference between muskets and rifles. Not sure how Naval accuracy will work.

Also, will accuracy differ depending on the amount of smoke on the battlefield? It seems to complex that they would of implemented it... but it would be awesome.
_______________________________________________________________

Realistic Melee Combat Speed - something that no Total War game yet has been able to nail down.

Again since most of the fighting is done by true animation rather than computer generated, the speed should be pretty okay and wouldn't require changing.
_______________________________________________________________

A semi-realistic Naval Combat Model - this means things like no sailing against the wind. I am not a naval expert, but I will do my best to make this aspect of the game as realistic as possible, and will ask advice where I can.

I hope this would be possible, - it'd also be cool if you could implement 'tacking' into the game again since it is now taken out.
_______________________________________________________________

Formation Densities - something that I have not seen realisticly represented in many of the screens so far.

I believe that CA already said on TWCenter that the soldiers could not be placed shoulder-to-shoulder because it affected the animations - so I think this would be pretty hard to mod.

If you mean how deep the ranks are, sure go ahead :)
_______________________________________________________________

Cost - Things that were massive Imperial investments will be in this mod.

It'd be nice if you did implement true costs and treasury, since no Total War game or Mod has ever been able to do this, - e.g. Britain will probably only start off with 10,000 guilder (or whatever the currency is) when really it should be in the millions.
_______________________________________________________________

All Fantasy Units will be KILLED - All of them.

I hope by this you aren't going to remove Rifle units, Black Watch, Organ guns etc.? Since they are all realistic units - Elephants I'm not too sure about.
_______________________________________________________________

Special Units such as Roger's Rangers will be removed and replaced with such generic units that respective factions can train, but will not be Uber. - fantasy units will not be added in their place.

Please don't do this D: - it's nice to have unique units for factions as it gives a sense of differential ism
_______________________________________________________________

Elephants and horsemen will be made realistic - Their combat roles will be forced to match what they were in real life.

Good :)
_______________________________________________________________

Overall I would definetley download this mod, - you should post this thread in the mod section of TWCenter also to get more opinions on changes etc.?

Vuk
02-15-2009, 15:35
Okay I have to agree that knowing CA we aren't going to get a balanced game, - makes modding more fun to be honest, however I do think this game will be more 'polished' than latter games in the franchise.
I hope so, it will save me work.
_______________________________________________________________

Reload time - realistic reload time, real life was balanced, so a game can be too without being unrealistic.

I think the reload time will be already pretty solid since the reload animations are true to how it would be done in reality. Therefore, unless the animations are ridiculously slow for some reason, I doubt this would need to be done.

I think however, what should be shown is the reload rate of muskets compared to rifles. And smaller ship vessels, compared to the large flag ships with a lot more guns.
The size of the ship did not effect that, it was the size of the guns on the ship that mattered (and yes, larger ships usually had larger guns). I intend to show the difference in reload speeds, do not worry. And I will find a way around animations if I have to (ei, if they are not already realistic). In M2 I added a delay time between animations. It meant that they stood there with their hands in the glass for a while, but the resulting effect was realistic, even if it did not look very pretty. Hopefully there will be a better way to do it this time around.
_______________________________________________________________

Movement speed - for infantry, cavalry, artillery, and naval units.

I think the main factor that will need to be changed is Naval units since is new to all of us, - especially changing how the speed varies in the wind. The others should be pretty sound since CA have had so many games in the past to perfect it.
CA has not gotten this right in any of their games, so I have no reason to believe that they will this time around (esp since none of their videos show it). If they do, I will be pleasantly surprised.
_______________________________________________________________

Range - again, as realistic as can be for the guns that are being used.

I think perhaps range should be re-looked at, and changed accordingly so I agree here, - especially nailing the difference between muskets and rifles.
_______________________________________________________________

Damage - during this period one shot even if in the leg could often kill, and one to the head or torso nearly always did. This will be represented.

The problem with changing damage is that no matter what the number is, it'll never be realistic, since it does not base off range, or 'where' the bullet lands. At least not to our knowledge - if you make the damage too high then there will hardly be any wounded soldiers, something there was a lot of - and if too little then the time it takes to kill a single soldier becomes far-fetched.
I plan to take these factors into account to make individual battles play out as realistically as possible. That is what I did with the other games, and hopefully this time I will have more options to work with.
_______________________________________________________________

Accuracy - This will be a big balancer that will really make a difference between professional and non professional armies. The main difference will of course be between the firearms used, but the small difference between a professional and a semi professional soldier can make a large difference with the outcome of the battle.

Accuracy should be represented to show the difference between muskets and rifles. Not sure how Naval accuracy will work.

Also, will accuracy differ depending on the amount of smoke on the battlefield? It seems to complex that they would of implemented it... but it would be awesome.

I do not know the limits of the engine yet (or my ability to use it), so I am not sure how much I will be able to do. I will definately show the difference between rifles and muskets though.
_______________________________________________________________

Realistic Melee Combat Speed - something that no Total War game yet has been able to nail down.

Again since most of the fighting is done by true animation rather than computer generated, the speed should be pretty okay and wouldn't require changing.
The combat speed could be changed in M2 where it was very unrealistic, and hopefully will be able to be changed here too if it needs it. If not, then less work for me ~;).
_______________________________________________________________

A semi-realistic Naval Combat Model - this means things like no sailing against the wind. I am not a naval expert, but I will do my best to make this aspect of the game as realistic as possible, and will ask advice where I can.

I hope this would be possible, - it'd also be cool if you could implement 'tacking' into the game again since it is now taken out.
_______________________________________________________________

Formation Densities - something that I have not seen realisticly represented in many of the screens so far.

I believe that CA already said on TWCenter that the soldiers could not be placed shoulder-to-shoulder because it affected the animations - so I think this would be pretty hard to mod.

If you mean how deep the ranks are, sure go ahead :)
_______________________________________________________________

Cost - Things that were massive Imperial investments will be in this mod.

It'd be nice if you did implement true costs and treasury, since no Total War game or Mod has ever been able to do this, - e.g. Britain will probably only start off with 10,000 guilder (or whatever the currency is) when really it should be in the millions.
_______________________________________________________________

All Fantasy Units will be KILLED - All of them.

I hope by this you aren't going to remove Rifle units, Black Watch, Organ guns etc.? Since they are all realistic units - Elephants I'm not too sure about.

I would definately not remove something like rifle units as they existed, and therefore were not fantasy units. If they include something like screeching women though, it is getting the axe. :P
_______________________________________________________________

Special Units such as Roger's Rangers will be removed and replaced with such generic units that respective factions can train, but will not be Uber. - fantasy units will not be added in their place.

Please don't do this D: - it's nice to have unique units for factions as it gives a sense of differential ism
I can make a generic scout unit with the same skin to replace Roger's Rangers for instance. The problem is that we make our own history in Total War, so specific units like that are not good. Also, i have a feeling they will unbalance the game. If someone wants to take a Ranger unit and name it Roger's Rangers, more power to em.
_______________________________________________________________

Elephants and horsemen will be made realistic - Their combat roles will be forced to match what they were in real life.

Good :)
_______________________________________________________________

Overall I would definetley download this mod, - you should post this thread in the mod section of TWCenter also to get more opinions on changes etc.?

Thanks, I am glad that you like the idea. I am not gonna bother posting it on the TWC as it is gonna be a long time before I even start, and I hardly ever check it. I just wanted to let people know that I would be working on it.

richyg13
02-24-2009, 00:10
Damage - during this period one shot even if in the leg could often kill, and one to the head or torso nearly always did. This will be represented.

The problem with changing damage is that no matter what the number is, it'll never be realistic, since it does not base off range, or 'where' the bullet lands. At least not to our knowledge - if you make the damage too high then there will hardly be any wounded soldiers, something there was a lot of - and if too little then the time it takes to kill a single soldier becomes far-fetched.



I'm wondering if it would be better then to try and increase the number of casualties healed after a battle instead? That could represent that most of the troops "killed" were only wounded are fighting fit again after the 6 month turn.

Vuk
02-28-2009, 17:51
I'm wondering if it would be better then to try and increase the number of casualties healed after a battle instead? That could represent that most of the troops "killed" were only wounded are fighting fit again after the 6 month turn.

That is a really good idea and something I tried in my M2 mod. Unfortunately though, I am afraid that I am not making this mod as I am not buying the game. Or at least not until certain unforgivable things are fixed. If I buy the game, I will probably start the mod up again.

EDIT: Another thing with that though is that a lot of the injuries were lost legs and stuff that did mean that they could no longer fight, so it would have to be not that great of an increase.
BTW, what's cooking Richyg? Long time no talk, lol. How is whiteheat coming? (That is the name of your game, right? I got a new computer, so I no longer have the link)

miniwally
03-01-2009, 00:00
y did you start the mod if you weren't going to buy the game

Vuk
03-01-2009, 07:02
y did you start the mod if you weren't going to buy the game

lol, I was gonna buy the game...until the demo came out. :thumbsdown:

richyg13
03-01-2009, 09:54
BTW, what's cooking Richyg? Long time no talk, lol. How is whiteheat coming? (That is the name of your game, right? I got a new computer, so I no longer have the link)

I had a sudden realisation we hade worked on something together before hehe.

White Heat took a bit of a nose dive but me and my bro started up another mod on the same engine shortly after and its been going steady for around 6 to 8 months now. Theres not much media to show as my bro wants to keep it under wraps for the most part until we have a major media release designed to have a "wow!" factor.


http://th02.deviantart.com/fs32/300W/f/2008/190/b/3/b31016ad399d9b941886e6ea1d1ce8e2.jpg
https://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc237/richyg13/svd_sniperrifle_stage8_textured_rig.png
https://i35.tinypic.com/2ahdxrn.jpg
http://www.crymod.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=32192&thumbnail=1

Vuk
03-01-2009, 11:03
I had a sudden realisation we hade worked on something together before hehe.

White Heat took a bit of a nose dive but me and my bro started up another mod on the same engine shortly after and its been going steady for around 6 to 8 months now. Theres not much media to show as my bro wants to keep it under wraps for the most part until we have a major media release designed to have a "wow!" factor.


http://th02.deviantart.com/fs32/300W/f/2008/190/b/3/b31016ad399d9b941886e6ea1d1ce8e2.jpg
https://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc237/richyg13/svd_sniperrifle_stage8_textured_rig.png
https://i35.tinypic.com/2ahdxrn.jpg
http://www.crymod.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=32192&thumbnail=1


lol, yeah, we worked together on Inca. :P Is it at all related to the CQB BF2 mod?

richyg13
03-02-2009, 00:25
lol, yeah, we worked together on Inca. :P Is it at all related to the CQB BF2 mod?

no not at all, 100% independent. Basically its a squad level tactical first person shooter where you lead a team of 8 men as part of a world organisation in an attempt to restore world order.

I can't say much more than that right now.

and i thought it was IncaTW hehe.