Empire Map

[Polemists]

So now that we know where we start and what we own.

I was wondering anyone has managed to collage a map since those old days when we did it based on old pictures and world maps.

I know there are lots of side screenshots out there, but I would really like to see a full map. This may be impossible and the game is only a week away. But as lots of magazines are releasing photos if anyone is gifted in graphics I'd like to see a full ETW map :) (Fog of war is fine just like to see the provninces and how they layout.)

[Relic]

I too would love this! :beam:

[miniwally]

You got any of these as i was looking on google and it's just the same 6 appearing over again (4 Europe,1 North America nd 1 south America I think) for at least first 36 pages. Left side of england and ireland, Right side of england and scotland, Right side of spain, Greece.

[Schiltrom]

if anyone is gifted in graphics I'd like to see a full ETW map

It's more a question of who has the pictures at their disposal to do this than who has the ability. It's not like someone will just have every gaming magazine around.

[miniwally]

sorry to go off topic but i like your pirate ship :D

[Sir Beane]

This http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20090224035300088.html?page=mediaFull (http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20090224035300088.html?page=mediaFull) screenshot probably has the latest most-up to date picture of the mini-map we have seen so far.

http://uk.media.pc.ign.com/media/958/958390/imgs_1.html - thats the rest of them.

Here's a close up of the mini-map.


https://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/BeanetheOrange/Mappic1.jpg


A larger version.

https://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/BeanetheOrange/Mappic2.jpg

[Fisherking]

But the other two were included on that one screen shot!

Did they lack detail?

[Sir Beane]

But the other two were included on that one screen shot!

Did they lack detail?

Other two what?

What I want to know is, if recent info is correct and Switzerland is not a faction, why is there a province in exactly the right place for the Swiss Confederation. A province that clearly doesn't belong to the surrounding powers?

[Fisherking]

Other two what?

What I want to know is, if recent info is correct and Switzerland is not a faction, why is there a province in exactly the right place for the Swiss Confederation. A province that clearly doesn't belong to the surrounding powers?


To the right of the factions.




http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20090224035320557.html?page=mediaFull

[Sir Beane]

To the right of the factions.




http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20090224035320557.html?page=mediaFull

Oh, the other two mini maps. I didn't bother posting them because they haven't changed at all from the versions we had previously. You'll be pleased to note that it looks like there are around 6 Native American factions though. :2thumbsup:

[Hollerbach]

Haven't been keeping up with the trickle of info, but some of the territory sizes look odd, like only a single territory for france but several for north africa. Most of India seems to be one big territory that is surrounded by a few tiny ones, instead of being a few medium sized territories. I guess the new system of buildings on the map etc must make territories a different kind of entity than in previous games?

[Sir Beane]

Haven't been keeping up with the trickle of info, but some of the territory sizes look odd, like only a single territory for france but several for north africa. Most of India seems to be one big territory that is surrounded by a few tiny ones, instead of being a few medium sized territories. I guess the new system of buildings on the map etc must make territories a different kind of entity than in previous games?

They are. Territores are done on a country basis in Empire. Spain is one, France is one, England is one etc. Provinces have mulitple cities, but still fall if you take the capital. More cities appear as your population increases. Each city id the hme of a specific chain of upgrades. For example Portsmouth in England would be a naval city.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I have some questions:

http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20090224035237604.html?page=mediaFull

Agent called ... a Scholar???? :dizzy2:
And female rulers??

http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20090224035306213.html?page=mediaFull

Sir Baene - from this picture you can see that there is no Switzerland. There is just mountainous region with dense forest.:inquisitive:

http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20090224035313135.html?page=mediaFull

So we have priests in this game too.

This makes me wonder why did CA told us that there are fewer agents?
We have gentlemen, rakes, scholars and priests. Not that much fewer if I may say!

Sry for going off-topic like that. :embarassed:

[Marten]

Other two what?

What I want to know is, if recent info is correct and Switzerland is not a faction, why is there a province in exactly the right place for the Swiss Confederation. A province that clearly doesn't belong to the surrounding powers?

This province, dear Sir Beane, is the country (or better state) i am currently living. The Capital is Stuttgart, known also as Capital of the best sports cars ever made (have to say this - they are paying my E:TW copy). :2thumbsup: And below that beautiful town you will find the famous Black Forest.

But, south of the Rhine is indeed the place where Switzerland belongs - now it is a black hole on the map. Seems to me, you won't be able to cross the forest. :no:

See:
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/956/956728/empire-total-war-20090224035306213.jpg

[Sir Beane]

I have some questions:

http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20090224035237604.html?page=mediaFull

Agent called ... a Scholar???? :dizzy2:
And female rulers??

http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20090224035306213.html?page=mediaFull

Sir Baene - from this picture you can see that there is no Switzerland. There is just mountainous region with dense forest.:inquisitive:

http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20090224035313135.html?page=mediaFull

So we have priests in this game too.

This makes me wonder why did CA told us that there are fewer agents?
We have gentlemen, rakes, scholars and priests. Not that much fewer if I may say!

Sry for going off-topic like that. :embarassed:

Scholars are just another name for Gentelmen, probably a faction variation.

Yes you can have female rulers this time around.

While there may be no Switzerland there is clearly a province not owned by another faction which is exactly the size and shape of Switzerland. You can see it on the mini-map.

Preists are known as missionaries and seem to be a recent addition.

And there are fewer agents. ETW has three.: Gentelaman, Rake, Missionary. M2TW had 6: Spy, Assassin, Diplomat, Merchant, Preist, Princess. It also had heretics, witches and Inquisitors which I doubt ETW will have.

[Jack Lusted]

Scholars are Indian gentlemen. And as agents now spawn instead of being recruited(some buildings increase the spawn rate/max amount of agents) you have less of them around.

[Haxorsist]

It looks like the Scholar is just the Maratha version of the Gentleman, because according to CA there didn't exist any gentlemen in India.~D

Edit: nevermind. =)

[Hollerbach]

Hmm, the 'scholar' looks very much like the scientist 'great person' from CivIV. Actually a lot of ETW is reminiscant of CivIV (the diplomacy sound very CivIV like for instance, and the tech tree sounds very Civ), and the battle interface looks to have picked up the best parts of Sid Meiers 'Civil War' games (button for advance and withdraw, left wheel right wheel etc). Not that this is a bad thing, these are all great improvements!

Thanks for the info Beane, will be interesting to see how this plays out. btw looking at the first pic in the previous post it looks like in fact India is made of many small territories? Maybe the lines of the mini map don't mean what they did in the past?

Edit: Okay, so a bazillion posts came in while I was typing, I was referring to post #13 when I said 'in the last post'. However, if gentlemen spawn at a rate influence by buildings and upgrades then they sound even more like the 'great people' from CivIV. As I say though, I don't consider this heinous plagarism, games should adapt and evolve picking the best bits out of other successful games.

[Sir Beane]

Scholars are Indian gentlemen. And as agents now spawn instead of being recruited(some buildings increase the spawn rate/max amount of agents) you have less of them around.

Thanks Jack :2thumbsup:. Can you comment on why there is what appears to be an empty province instead of the Swiss Confederation?

[Sir Beane]

Hmm, the 'scholar' looks very much like the scientist 'great person' from CivIV. Actually a lot of ETW is reminiscant of CivIV (the diplomacy sound very CivIV like for instance, and the tech tree sounds very Civ), and the battle interface looks to have picked up the best parts of Sid Meiers 'Civil War' games (button for advance and withdraw, left wheel right wheel etc). Not that this is a bad thing, these are all great improvements!

Thanks for the info Beane, will be interesting to see how this plays out. btw looking at the first pic in the previous post it looks like in fact India is made of many small territories? Maybe the lines of the mini map don't mean what they did in the past?

India is made up of many small territories, I guess they decided to divide it up more than certain areas of Europe. I think the lines still mean the same thing.

[Jack Lusted]

Thanks Jack . Can you comment on why there is what appears to be an empty province instead of the Swiss Confederation?

We've tried to avoid having too many provinces in the game, and this has resulted in Switzerland not being a province.

[Sir Beane]

We've tried to avoid having too many provinces in the game, and this has resulted in Switzerland not being a province.

Thanks Jack :2thumbsup:.

[Marten]

Just to please the PO (i don't know how to minimize the pic in the post):

http://www.pic-upload.de/20.02.09/9u2y6.png

Taken from totalwar-zone, thanks to 6b12ga!

[Polemists]

So it's there...it's just not a province.....am I the only one who is lost? :dizzy2:

[Hollerbach]

Yeah, seems odd considering how many provinces there are on say the easy coast of the (now) USA. Surely adding in an entire country by making that little blob a province would not have been too bad, even if it wasn't made a major faction or anything?

[Sir Beane]

Just to please the PO (i don't know how to minimize the pic in the post):

http://www.pic-upload.de/20.02.09/9u2y6.png

Taken from totalwar-zone, thanks to 6b12ga!

Wow! Those are incredible (and also huge). Thanks Marten! :2thumbsup:

@ Polemists

It looks like its an inaccesible area of map, or a province with no capital city. There is clearly an empty area of map in the shape of Switzerland.

Perhaps Switzerland didn't want to be included in a war game? They do love their neutrality.

[Polemists]

Yes no war games, they are only willing to take your money and give away your personal information...but not war...that would be wrong :P

I don't know...it just seems odd....i mean it's like a whole chunk of the map of now nothing...wierd

[Marten]

Imho, CA missed a great chance for a real hardcore trade scenario: Make switzerland a "trade only" province.
Without possibility to unlock or conquer them - just for further processing the chocolate from overseas. :clown:

And to loan some money ... in delicate affairs.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Lol.. now we know what is the first nation that modders add to the game! ~:D

[Fisherking]

Well so much for neutrality…


The 18th century was a period of relative peace and prosperity, until its last decade when French revolutionary troops invaded and destroyed the old political system.
During the 18th century, great advances were made in scientific agriculture. New industries got off the ground, including clockmaking and textiles.
Learned and patriotic societies sprang up all over the country. Swiss intellectuals discussed new scientific and philosophical ideas with their counterparts abroad. At the same time, they promoted Swiss national awareness, going beyond narrow cantonal boundaries.
The new industrial and intellectual elite challenged the entrenched ruling circles.
The century ended in Europe-wide turmoil after the French revolution and France's subsequent wars against European monarchies.
French troops invaded Switzerland in 1798, broke the power of the ruling élites there and temporarily destroyed the cantonal system by creating the centralised Helvetic Republic.
For the first and only time in their history the Swiss were forced to abandon their neutrality and provide troops for France.



During the French Revolutionary Wars, the revolutionary armies boiled eastward, enveloping Switzerland in their battles against Austria. In 1798 Switzerland was completely overrun by the French and became the Helvetic Republic. The Helvetic Republic encountered severe economic and political problems. In 1798 the country became a battlefield of the Revolutionary Wars, culminating in the Battles of Zürich in 1799.
In 1803 Napoleon's Act of Mediation reestablished a Swiss Confederation that partially restored the sovereignty of the cantons, and the former tributary and allied territories of Aargau, Thurgau, Graubünden, St. Gallen, Vaud and Ticino became cantons with equal rights.
The Congress of Vienna of 1815 fully re-established Swiss independence and the European powers agreed to permanently recognise Swiss neutrality. At this time, the territory of Switzerland was increased for the last time, by the new cantons of Valais, Neuchâtel and Geneva.



You know what else!

I don’t know where they got their history or Placement of American Indian factions from, but if I were giving them a grade on it…I would flat fail them!

It would seem they have taken out a few provinces for what ever reason. But they just took the lands of two large tribes and a few smaller ones and gave it to a medium sized one because of name recognition no doubt.

I have to say I am hugely disappointed.

[Skott]

CA has never been known for being historically correct. In some ways they fail worse than Hollywood. And we know how badly Hollywood does when it comes to making a movie with History in it. :laugh4:

[Sisco Americanus]

Just to please the PO (i don't know how to minimize the pic in the post):

http://www.pic-upload.de/20.02.09/9u2y6.png

Taken from totalwar-zone, thanks to 6b12ga!


hmmm.... something is odd about the 13 colonies.... like, there aren't 13 of them.

[Sir Beane]

hmmm.... something is odd about the 13 colonies.... like, there aren't 13 of them.

Some of the missing provinces probably don't get their own province but are part of another.

[Alexander XXI]

Here is a map I have found, which is said to be fairly accurate.

https://i44.tinypic.com/s3o4s4.jpg

[Polemists]

That's pretty good, still think some of those colors are kinda ugly but that's just me :P..the map will look much better once I remove some of those other colors :laugh4:

So was looking through some screenshots, noticed one of the tabs says Policies, next to National Summary in the screenshot with Government pulled up for India.


Is this our technology tree I'm guessing?

[A Very Super Market]

What the bugger, Prussia doesn't even have Brandenburg?

Edit: Never mind, stupid mistake.

[quadalpha]

What the bugger, Prussia doesn't even have Brandenburg?
I think it does. It's the same colour as East Prussia.

[Incongruous]

I have my fingers crossed, the fact is I am sceptical about giving a country as huge as France only two provinces, one being Alsace and the other one "France". I really hope this does not result in a complete push over of a nation...

[Jack Lusted]

I have my fingers crossed, the fact is I am sceptical about giving a country as huge as France only two provinces, one being Alsace and the other one "France". I really hope this does not result in a complete push over of a nation...

Those big single provinces such as France and Spain can recruit more units a turn than other regions, and produce a lot more cash. May be a single province but they are a lot more valuable than a lot of other provinces. In one French campaign I played France was making me more money than my 2 other most valuable regions combined.

[Robespierre]

I have my fingers crossed, the fact is I am sceptical about giving a country as huge as France only two provinces, one being Alsace and the other one "France". I really hope this does not result in a complete push over of a nation...

I reckon it may have the opposite effect. France could be really hard to conquer, because even if you can take Paris, then you're stuck with finding some way to win the peace and calm the nation down. Partition is not an option, you cannot just parcel France out between your allies, and occupation could be really expensive, cricket organizer has to do due diligence, burble burble, rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb & custard but now its all gone pear shaped :wall:, so if Paris cannot be defended it may be better to accept reasonable tems offered by the French, change of govt., vassalage, rather than to conquer them.

this is really cool.

i love the new map but i thought they said it will be possible to spin it round and view it from other angles like a real map.

[Sir Beane]

.

Those big single provinces such as France and Spain can recruit more units a turn than other regions, and produce a lot more cash. May be a single province but they are a lot more valuable than a lot of other provinces. In one French campaign I played France was making me more money than my 2 other most valuable regions combined.

Thanks Jack! That makes a lot of sense, and goes some way to explaining how such large provinces will work. :2thumbsup:

[Marten]

2 Guys who played at Sega Headquarters in Munich posted in another (german) forum:

"We took France in 5-6 years out. But we were allied with Prussia (they played as Britain), Austria and some other countries." The AI attacked their reinforcements, sent reinforcements to Paris and tried to re-conquer the northern territorries of France. Also, as they sacked Paris, Spain (allied with France) started an invasion in southern France and battled the Austrians. The oversea provinces of France changed to "New France".
They played campaign on "Normal".

On "Hard" they lost the skirmish battle against the AI. The AI tried to outflank them. As one guy tried to strengthen his lines on the flanks, the AI managed to break his lines in the center with a heavy infantry charge, supported by heavy artillery fire.

All this sounds very promising to me!

[Sir Beane]

2 Guys who played at Sega Headquarters in Munich posted in another (german) forum:

"We took France in 5-6 turns out. But we were allied with Prussia (they played as Britain), Austria and some other countries." The AI attacked their reinforcements, sent reinforcements to Paris and tried to re-conquer the northern territorries of France. Also, as they sacked Paris, Spain (allied with France) started an invasion in southern France and battled the Austrians. The oversea provinces of France changed to "New France".
They played campaign on "Normal".

On "Hard" they lost the skirmish battle against the AI. The AI tried to outflank them. As one guy tried to strengthen his lines on the flanks, the AI managed to break his lines in the center with a heavy infantry charge, supported by heavy artillery fire.

All this sounds very promising to me!

But how could they re-conquer the Northern territories of France when France is only one province? Apart from that it all sounds interesting however. Except taking out France in 5 - 6 turns. That sounds like the game is too easy.

[Marten]

But how could they re-conquer the Northern territories of France when France is only one province? Apart from that it all sounds interesting however. Except taking out France in 5 - 6 turns. That sounds like the game is too easy.

Because they first conquered the small villages and factories in northern france to weaken the infrasturcture and income of the french. Spain tried to conquer the small villages in southern france to get the benefits from the buildings there. As i read, there were some tough battles with the Austrians to get these. And yes, i have to clarify myself (got this wrong) i meant 5-6 years, so 10 -12 turns. I will edit asap! :shame:

After the successful siege of Paris they got mail some turns later from the french nobility; somewhat like "we are very disappointed in your government". They ignored this and a few turns later spawned a rebel army with french flag in southern france. :yes:

And finally, france isn't only one province. It's 2 if i got it right -> Paris, France and Strasbourg, Alsace-Lorraine? :book:

[Hollerbach]

Hmm, so in the map in post #34 it makes it look like there is continous live areas between Europe and India. I thought that these were two seperate 'theatres' (with America being a third) that you could only get between by boat. All the screenies I've seen have had only a single theatre in the spot that the 'world map' has been in past games. I wonder how this land bridge between the two theatres will function?

[Sir Beane]

Because they first conquered the small villages and factories in northern france to weaken the infrasturcture and income of the french. Spain tried to conquer the small villages in southern france to get the benefits from the buildings there. As i read, there were some tough battles with the Austrians to get these. And yes, i have to clarify myself (got this wrong) i meant 5-6 years, so 10 -12 turns. I will edit asap! :shame:

After the successful siege of Paris they got mail some turns later from the french nobility; somewhat like "we are very disappointed in your government". They ignored this and a few turns later spawned a rebel army with french flag in southern france. :yes:

Ahhh that sounds much better :2thumbsup:. Especially the bit about the rebel army. :beam:

These huge multi-national fights over territory will be a great feature of the game if they happen frequently.

[Marten]

Hmm, so in the map in post #34 it makes it look like there is continous live areas between Europe and India. I thought that these were two seperate 'theatres' (with America being a third) that you could only get between by boat. All the screenies I've seen have had only a single theatre in the spot that the 'world map' has been in past games. I wonder how this land bridge between the two theatres will function?

If you are able to conquer the Ottomans (or just play as them) you can get to India by land. In my 3rd or 4th campaign i will try for sure (as Russia). :yes:

[PBI]

Because they first conquered the small villages and factories in northern france to weaken the infrasturcture and income of the french. Spain tried to conquer the small villages in southern france to get the benefits from the buildings there. As i read, there were some tough battles with the Austrians to get these. And yes, i have to clarify myself (got this wrong) i meant 5-6 years, so 10 -12 turns. I will edit asap! :shame:

After the successful siege of Paris they got mail some turns later from the french nobility; somewhat like "we are very disappointed in your government". They ignored this and a few turns later spawned a rebel army with french flag in southern france. :yes:


Excellent - so conquering the homelands of a major European nation is going to be somewhat like conquering the Papacy in MTW - it might not be too hard to overrun them, but they will re-emerge before long. Should make acquring and holding a large empire in continental Europe a real struggle.

Interesting about Spain raiding southern France - do we know for certain if planting armies on the satellite towns in a province will cause you to gain the benefits of those towns, or simply deny their use to the enemy?

Bizarre about Switzerland - I understand wanting to keep the province count down, but I can't quite see why it didn't make the cut when there are so many other relatively small nations in Europe. It'll be strange to have basically a big hole in the center of Europe.

[Sir Beane]

Excellent - so conquering the homelands of a major European nation is going to be somewhat like conquering the Papacy in MTW - it might not be too hard to overrun them, but they will re-emerge before long. Should make acquring and holding a large empire in continental Europe a real struggle.

Interesting about Spain raiding southern France - do we know for certain if planting armies on the satellite towns in a province will cause you to gain the benefits of those towns, or simply deny their use to the enemy?

Bizarre about Switzerland - I understand wanting to keep the province count down, but I can't quite see why it didn't make the cut when there are so many other relatively small nations in Europe. It'll be strange to have basically a big hole in the center of Europe.

I'm almost certain it was due to Switzerland declining permission to be used in a military game. They dislike anything that could potentially infringe on their neutrality. It would certainly explain why Switzerland still appears to be a province, but with nothing in it.

If it was legal action CA might be obliged not to say so.

I do hope factions can re-appear in their homelands. It's much more realistic than taking the whole of France and its 20,000,000+ population with an army of a few thousand redcoats in Paris.

[PBI]

I'm almost certain it was due to Switzerland declining permission to be used in a military game. They dislike anything that could potentially infring on their neutrality. It would certainly explain why Switzerland still appears to be a province, but with nothing in it.


They were in MTW though, but I suppose it was more in a sense of their initial wars of independence rather than a setting where it's practically the aim of the game to violate their subsequent tradition of neutrality. And they certainly weren't in M2TW aside from mercenaries, more's the pity. I'm wracking my brains trying to think of other games featuring Switzerland and coming up blank; perhaps you are correct.

[Hollerbach]

I'm almost certain it was due to Switzerland declining permission to be used in a military game. They dislike anything that could potentially infring on their neutrality. It would certainly explain why Switzerland still appears to be a province, but with nothing in it.


Wow, if that's true that is incredible! I mean it's not like countries usually get asked permission to incude them in games, i.e. "Dear Germany, can we make yet another game depicting your countrymen as hordes of brown shirted zealots who can't shoot straight?". I'm sure Iraq didn't give permission for it to be used in the all Gulf war games that have been made. But it does seem very strange that the Swiss aren't there so this does seem a possible explanation.

I'm not well versed on European sensibilities, so maybe this is not so surprising for those more aware of how the Swiss would feel about this...

[PanzerJaeger]

Wait, how can Switzerland decline permission to be used in a video game? Do countries have a legal claim on their likenesses in media? :inquisitive:

[PBI]

I guess they could refuse to allow the game to be sold in Switzerland.

[Sir Beane]

Wait, how can Switzerland decline permission to be used in a video game? Do countries have a legal claim on their likenesses in media? :inquisitive:

No, but they could refuse to let the game be sold in their country. And if an entire nation asks you not to do something you probably have to listen. I imagine is Switzerland did ask not to be included CA probably wouldn't think it worth arguing.

[Oleander Ardens]

I'm almost certain it was due to Switzerland declining permission to be used in a military game. They dislike anything that could potentially infring on their neutrality. It would certainly explain why Switzerland still appears to be a province, but with nothing in it.

:laugh4:

[Sir Beane]

To explain the Swiss situation, the way I see it.

Switzerland appears to be a province, impassible, with no city and no owner. Essentially a big hole in the middle of Europe with nothing in it. Other factions have not been put in, but their territory has been given to nearby factions, not left deserted.

One possible reason for this is that perhaps CA were not able to include them in the game even though they wanted to. A reason for this could be Switzerland itself asking not to be included.

Switzerland are famously neutral, and I can see a game where you could potentially attack them or attack as them upsetting the government somewhat. They tend to get very annoyed at anything threatening their neutrality.

This is just a theory of course, designed to offer a possible explanation to their mysterious absence and the inclusion of a deserted province.

[Greyblades]

They didnt object to being in superpower 2 (great game but only after the 1.4 patch) even though players(like me) enjoyed nuking them when they sat around doing nothing, good times.:2thumbsup:

Forgive me for stating the obvious but isnt that pink blob, in the middle of alexanders map, Switzerland?

[A Very Super Market]

Well gosh, the Swedes are pretty neutral too, and you don't see them complaining. This 300 years back anyways, so how can it threaten their neutrality

[lars573]

hmmm.... something is odd about the 13 colonies.... like, there aren't 13 of them.
Yeah and CA is actually putting in more than actually existed in1700. :laugh4: Georgia was named after the regining monarch when it was founded, George II IIRC. There aren't 13 colonies until after 1763, when Vermont is ceded to Britain by France. I wiki'ed Confederation of New England. Appearantly it was real and was basically the modern US states of Massachusetts and Connecticut united as one colony. Only problem was it ceased to be in 1684. And never included Rouge Island (as they called Rhode Island) or New Hampshire as the games province appears too.

But your always going to have such things. Look at the province of Acadia, the capital given is Fort Nashwaak (~modern city of Fredericton). I've never heard of that before, I had to look it up. The main French settlments in Acadia were Port Royal (now Annapolis Royal), which was the capitol of Acadia, and Louisbourg. Louisbourg being founded after mainland Nova Scotia was given to Britian after the war of Spainish succesion.

[A Very Super Market]

I don't think the warrant 13 different colonies. Grouping them into New England is good.

[Sir Beane]

They didnt object to being in superpower 2 (great game but only after the 1.4 patch) even though players(like me) enjoyed nuking them when they sat around doing nothing, good times.:2thumbsup:

Forgive me for stating the obvious but isnt that pink blob, in the middle of alexanders map, Switzerland?

It is, or where it should be. recent screenshots and maps have sown that there is no actual city in that province, and it is not owned by a faction.

http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20090224035306213.html;jsessionid=13ikacgrh6csb (http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20090224035306213.html;jsessionid=13ikacgrh6csb)

The screenshot in that link should illustrate what I mean. You can tell there is a province there though. It's all very odd.

[Beskar]

To explain the Swiss situation, the way I see it.

Switzerland appears to be a province, impassible, with no city and no owner. Essentially a big hole in the middle of Europe with nothing in it. Other factions have not been put in, but their territory has been given to nearby factions, not left deserted.

One possible reason for this is that perhaps CA were not able to include them in the game even though they wanted to. A reason for this could be Switzerland itself asking not to be included.

Switzerland are famously neutral, and I can see a game where you could potentially attack them or attack as them upsetting the government somewhat. They tend to get very annoyed at anything threatening their neutrality.

This is just a theory of course, designed to offer a possible explanation to their mysterious absence and the inclusion of a deserted province.

I bet Switzerland could be put in the game as well.

There could be another reason. How would they portray Switzerland and wouldn't Switzerland require it's very own special AI?

Switzerland as you say, is a very neutral country and only fights when attacked to defend their boundaries. They are also a very rich country, so they would have very impressive technology, plus a population willing to do anything to defend it.

Also, Switzerland is situation in an area which is hard to access and thus, easy enough for them to defend.

I think there are so many factors to make Switzerland accurate within the game that it was too much trouble than it was worth to have the province in.

Would be very interested in seeing a modification to the game where Switzerland is in. There are several loopholes which could be used to make it realistic.

[Liberator]

I bet Switzerland could be put in the game as well.

Switzerland as you say, is a very neutral country and only fights when attacked to defend their boundaries. They are also a very rich country, so they would have very impressive technology, plus a population willing to do anything to defend it.


Switzerland is very rich now, but in the 18th century it was one of the poorest places in europe. :book:

And this is in a way also a reason why they kept there independence: there simply wasn't much to loot and as you said the area is easy to defend.

[Megas Methuselah]

Here is a map I have found, which is said to be fairly accurate.

https://i44.tinypic.com/s3o4s4.jpg

I know this map is fairly outdated (Russia is still brown in it, while it was changed to green), but if they don't put the Chippewa in here, I'm really going to be pissed off. They were a major power in the Great Lakes area in North America, and not having them in the game is like not having Austria in the game. And the Hurons were all but wiped out in their war with the Iroquois in the 17th century (before ETW), and so they shouldn't be a major Native American power anymore at all...

:no:

[Greyblades]

The only thing that bugs me about the map at this point is that I wont be able to invade the western coast of America even though I will still see it in the minimap

[Megas Methuselah]

They won't put it in, because they're too lazy to research the tribes in the areas.

[Greyblades]

Yeah but did they realy have to get my hopes up by including the outline in the minimap?

[Beskar]

Switzerland is very rich now, but in the 18th century it was one of the poorest places in europe. :book:

And this is in a way also a reason why they kept there independence: there simply wasn't much to loot and as you said the area is easy to defend.
For some reason, I thought Switzerland were technologically advanced and quite rich in those days too. But that could be the reason. They are that poor, it isn't worth the effort to invade.

An interesting way to mod Switzerland then, is to make it a poor area, but give the faction a big income per turn, so they can have an upkeep of a strong army or make it that garrisons spawn when some one invades, to represent the defenders, sort of like a revolt system, to represent the people picking up their arms to defend. Latter is most likely the best way, but harder to code.

[Sir Beane]

For some reason, I thought Switzerland were technologically advanced and quite rich in those days too. But that could be the reason. They are that poor, it isn't worth the effort to invade.

An interesting way to mod Switzerland then, is to make it a poor area, but give the faction a big income per turn, so they can have an upkeep of a strong army or make it that garrisons spawn when some one invades, to represent the defenders, sort of like a revolt system, to represent the people picking up their arms to defend. Latter is most likely the best way, but harder to code.

An even more difficult modding challenge would be getting other factions to recognise Swiss neutrality. Historically Switzerland haven't often needed to fight, as other nations mostly left them alone (with some exceptions).

You can't stop a Total War faction from invading things though, it just isn't in there nature :laugh4:.

I was looking forward to making Switzerland into a world power, invading all of Europe and burning it to the ground. It's much easier to be neutral when theres no one left to fight you :2thumbsup:.

Alternatively it would be fun to Roleplay an entirely neutral nation, just sitting there growing economically and minding your own business. Perhaps occasionally beating up invading powers who get to greedy.

[Beskar]

I think the Swiss ruling the world would just be making everyone a protectorate and taxing them while they otherwise did whatever they wanted bar attacking Switzerland, as the leader of this Switzerland sits back in Guevara on his throne of skulls.

[General SupaCrunk]

Wow! Those are incredible (and also huge). Thanks Marten! :2thumbsup:

@ Polemists

It looks like its an inaccesible area of map, or a province with no capital city. There is clearly an empty area of map in the shape of Switzerland.

Perhaps Switzerland didn't want to be included in a war game? They do love their neutrality.

You have missed one region in South America which Belongs to France.

[SwordsMaster]

So is all of France 1 province? And all of Spain? And all of New Spain? And Anatolia?
Jaysus. Modding Gods come to our rescue

[andrewt]

For some reason, I thought Switzerland were technologically advanced and quite rich in those days too. But that could be the reason. They are that poor, it isn't worth the effort to invade.



They didn't get rich until the 20th century, when tax evaders, organized mobs and corrupt dictators like Marcos of the Philippines and Suharto of Indonesia can easily hide their wealth there to give their banks a huge asset base.

[Beskar]

So is all of France 1 province? And all of Spain? And all of New Spain? And Anatolia?
Jaysus. Modding Gods come to our rescue


They have more than one city/town/etc. These spawn based on population of the areas.

Basically, instead of capturing Benidorm and now its yours to build up, etc. You can capture them and take resources, etc, however, it's still part of Spain, so you got to take over Madrid to take over the whole area.

[SwordsMaster]

I got that, but still. Even the UK is getting 3! I understand about the unrest and nationalistic feelings. But still, in the war for the spanish throne, Barcelona was one of the last cities to continue fighting, and this cannot be represented or even in any way recreated or even the possibility of the famous sieges of Zaragoza or Vitoria if the only city on the peninsula is Madrid...

[Sisco Americanus]

Yeah and CA is actually putting in more than actually existed in1700. :laugh4: Georgia was named after the regining monarch when it was founded, George II IIRC. There aren't 13 colonies until after 1763, when Vermont is ceded to Britain by France. I wiki'ed Confederation of New England. Appearantly it was real and was basically the modern US states of Massachusetts and Connecticut united as one colony. Only problem was it ceased to be in 1684. And never included Rouge Island (as they called Rhode Island) or New Hampshire as the games province appears too.

But your always going to have such things. Look at the province of Acadia, the capital given is Fort Nashwaak (~modern city of Fredericton). I've never heard of that before, I had to look it up. The main French settlments in Acadia were Port Royal (now Annapolis Royal), which was the capitol of Acadia, and Louisbourg. Louisbourg being founded after mainland Nova Scotia was given to Britian after the war of Spainish succesion.



Yeah, I certainly understand the design decision to not have the 13 Colonies/United States actually represented by 13 provinces or regions or whatever you want to call them. I was just enjoying the irony, given that in the game they are literally named "The Thirteen Colonies" and there are only like eight of them.

:laugh4:

[quadalpha]

I got that, but still. Even the UK is getting 3! I understand about the unrest and nationalistic feelings. But still, in the war for the spanish throne, Barcelona was one of the last cities to continue fighting, and this cannot be represented or even in any way recreated or even the possibility of the famous sieges of Zaragoza or Vitoria if the only city on the peninsula is Madrid...
I thought the idea was that the towns will eventually develop and can be fought over and beseiged.

[Sir Beane]

I thought the idea was that the towns will eventually develop and can be fought over and beseiged.

They can, but taking them won't net you a province, you'll just gain the city and it's bonuses.

[quadalpha]

They can, but taking them won't net you a province, you'll just gain the city and it's bonuses.
Right, my point was that there shouldn't be any concern about lack of cities to fight over.

[Sir Beane]

Right, my point was that there shouldn't be any concern about lack of cities to fight over.

It's a good point, I think the new province system will work really well. Still I won't mind if modders decide to add more provinces :2thumbsup:.

[Jack Lusted]

I think there is some confusion about the new province system in Empire. There is only one settlement in each region, and there are a series of towns and villages throughout a province. Settlements come in three kinds based on the number of main building slots in them(5, 4 or 1), and towns can be ports(3 different chains), farms, winery, mines etc. or some town slots can be one of 4 building chains. Villages will over time 'pop' and become towns/ports where you choose what building chain to go with them. You need to take the main settlement in order to conquer a region and recruiting troops are done then.

Those towns outisde the settlement can be occupied by an enemy which damages them and removes the benefits you're getting from them which can cripple a faction. Bigger provinces have more towns/villages and so make more money and are more valuable. As bigger provinces also have more population they also make more tax income.

[Sir Beane]

I think there is some confusion about the new province system in Empire. There is only one settlement in each region, and there are a series of towns and villages throughout a province. Settlements come in three kinds based on the number of main building slots in them(5, 4 or 1), and towns can be ports(3 different chains), farms, winery, mines etc. or some town slots can be one of 4 building chains. Villages will over time 'pop' and become towns/ports where you choose what building chain to go with them. You need to take the main settlement in order to conquer a region and recruiting troops are done then.

Those towns outisde the settlement can be occupied by an enemy which damages them and removes the benefits you're getting from them which can cripple a faction. Bigger provinces have more towns/villages and so make more money and are more valuable. As bigger provinces also have more population they also make more tax income.

Thanks Jack :2thumbsup:. Can you make use of the bonuses from occupied towns, or do you have to take the province first?

How quickly towns pop is based on population growth isn't it? If so what is the limit on the number of towns a province can have?

[Jack Lusted]

Can you make use of the bonuses from occupied towns, or do you have to take the province first?

You have to take the region first.


How quickly towns pop is based on population growth isn't it?

Yes.


If so what is the limit on the number of towns a province can have?

It's how many villages there are in a province, so it is a pre-defined amount.

[Sir Beane]

You have to take the region first.



Yes.



It's how many villages there are in a province, so it is a pre-defined amount.

Thanks again :2thumbsup: I can't wait to get to grips with the new province system. :beam:

[Meneldil]

Wait, how can Switzerland decline permission to be used in a video game? Do countries have a legal claim on their likenesses in media? :inquisitive:

Yeah, a country simply can't do that.

Switzerland isn't included because CA couldn't be arsed to make them a faction, and that's about it.

[Greyblades]

CA did all those tiny german states but were too lazy to do switzerland?

[Sir Beane]

Yeah, a country simply can't do that.

Switzerland isn't included because CA couldn't be arsed to make them a faction, and that's about it.

If you look somewhere firther up in the thread I've mention a few ways that Switzerland could have persuaded CA to not include them.

I could be completely wrong of course, but it seems odd that in earlier screenshots there was a faction in that Switzerland shaped hole, and now there is nothing. Seems like at one point Switzerland was intended to be in the game.

[tibilicus]

If you look somewhere firther up in the thread I've mention a few ways that Switzerland could have persuaded CA to not include them.

I could be completely wrong of course, but it seems odd that in earlier screenshots there was a faction in that Switzerland shaped hole, and now there is nothing. Seems like at one point Switzerland was intended to be in the game.



Why would a country actually care that much to not want to be included in a video game though?

It's not like the Russians have any control over the fact they're constantly the bad guys in nearly ever fps game. It just doesn't logically make sense.

[Sir Beane]

Why would a country actually care that much to not want to be included in a video game though?

It's not like the Russians have any control over the fact they're constantly the bad guys in nearly ever fps game. It just doesn't logically make sense.

Switzerland takes it's neutrality, very seriously. But it's just a theory you know, to explain why there seemed to be a Swiss faction and they disappeared, leaving a Switzerland shaped province with nothing in it. I wouldn't be as suspicious if their territory had just been given to another faction.

[tibilicus]

Switzerland takes it's neutrality, very seriously. But it's just a theory you know, to explain why there seemed to be a Swiss faction and they disappeared, leaving a Switzerland shaped province with nothing in it. I wouldn't be as suspicious if their territory had just been given to another faction.

So let me get this straight there's just a blank square on the map where they're meant to be?


:inquisitive:

[Sir Beane]

So let me get this straight there's just a blank square on the map where they're meant to be?


:inquisitive:

Take a look at the screenshots.

http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20090224035306213.html?page=mediaFull

Look above Savoy and below Stuttgart. The area of forest is where Switzerland should be. You can see white province lines surrounding it, but there is no city there and the mini-map doesn't show that that area is owned by any of the surrounding factions. It's like no-mans land.

Also check out page one, there are several pictures uploaded by me and Marten that show the province where Switzerland should be.

[gollum]

Originally Posted by tibilicus
So let me get this straight there's just a blank square on the map where they're meant to be?

Yes and its probably fair and good as an approach. It has been used before in classic tabletop games like "Rise and Decline of the third reich" and "World at War" by Avalon Hill.

[tibilicus]

Take a look at the screenshots.

http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20090224035306213.html?page=mediaFull

Look above Savoy and below Stuttgart. The area of forest is where Switzerland should be. You can see white province lines surrounding it, but there is no city there and the mini-map doesn't show that that area is owned by any of the surrounding factions. It's like no-mans land.

Also check out page one, there are several pictures uploaded by me and Marten that show the province where Switzerland should be.

How odd. I was going to suggest that maybe it's because they weren't of any significance in this time from but that's far from the truth and I'm sure Switzerland played a much bigger role than factions like Georgia which have been included..


Ah well it's a mystery..

[SwordsMaster]

I think there is some confusion about the new province system in Empire. There is only one settlement in each region, and there are a series of towns and villages throughout a province. Settlements come in three kinds based on the number of main building slots in them(5, 4 or 1), and towns can be ports(3 different chains), farms, winery, mines etc. or some town slots can be one of 4 building chains. Villages will over time 'pop' and become towns/ports where you choose what building chain to go with them. You need to take the main settlement in order to conquer a region and recruiting troops are done then.

Those towns outisde the settlement can be occupied by an enemy which damages them and removes the benefits you're getting from them which can cripple a faction. Bigger provinces have more towns/villages and so make more money and are more valuable. As bigger provinces also have more population they also make more tax income.

Thanks for the reply Jack. This however still means that complex regions like Spain or France are very underrepresented, while the relative weight of small german principalities is given more value than the much more complex mechanics in these bigger realms.

Perhaps this mechanic is ok for the colonial territories, with one capital and resource-building spread throughout the province, but I can't help but feel that France needs a Bordeaux or a Marseille (or both) and Spain needs a Barcelona or a Cadiz or a Seville. These aren't exactly random villages or "ports" or "mines".

[A Very Super Market]

I think this would is to better represent nationalism, and the political antics of Europe. It isn't like Rome or M2 when a territory is just a territory, even losing a bit of your homeland is devastating and not accepted. If they were all separate territories, you would eventually get situations where important cultural homelands are being traded aroun.

[Robespierre]

There is only one settlement in each region, and there are a series of towns and villages throughout a province. Settlements come in three kinds based on the number of main building slots in them(5, 4 or 1), and towns can be ports(3 different chains), farms, winery, mines etc. or some town slots can be one of 4 building chains. Villages will over time 'pop' and become towns/ports where you choose what building chain to go with them. You need to take the main settlement in order to conquer a region and recruiting troops are done then.


I would like to ask two questions about this.

Do the towns each get a name as they pop or can they be named by the player?

Do the building chains include barracks etc. to build troops/ ships? if so can these not be used once captured unless you control the main settlement?

cheers Jack! allow no thought of cuckoo clocks cheese or the B-vord to distract you from these vital issues!

[Jack Lusted]

Thanks for the reply Jack. This however still means that complex regions like Spain or France are very underrepresented, while the relative weight of small german principalities is given more value than the much more complex mechanics in these bigger realms.

Not really as France and Spain can produce more troops per turn than those smaller provinces and vastly more income.


Do the towns each get a name as they pop or can they be named by the player?

They all have names assigned to them at the start of the game.


Do the building chains include barracks etc. to build troops/ ships? if so can these not be used once captured unless you control the main settlement?

Barracks are in the main settlement only.

[Marten]

Thanks for the info Jack! Can you please read the Posts #42 and #44 and clarify if this is possible in the game then?

From what i read in the german forum, is the behaviour of the AI in this "AAR" (the content i wrote) thinkable? Or just wishful thinking?

[Jack Lusted]

Yes the AI does go round damaging slots in enemy provinces in wars, which means you need to deal with them or have a severly crippled province.

[Greyblades]

Hey jack, do the AI prioritise reigions or does it treat them as all with equal importance?

[Marten]

Yes the AI does go round damaging slots in enemy provinces in wars, which means you need to deal with them or have a severly crippled province.

Mange tak Jack! :2thumbsup:

So the AI will support their allies and also battle their enemies (like the spanish and austrian in the AAR) on foreign soil?

[Jack Lusted]

It does make judgements based on the wealth of a region and what each region has in it.

[Sir Beane]

This is all great info Jack :2thumbsup: Many thanks :beam:.

[Discoman]

Jack, if the enemy sacks or controls a village do they get a share of the resources being produced?

[Greyblades]

I actually I was thinking will they think of priorities historically? IE will the Britain AI be more Likely to divert troops from, and so weaken, the colonies to defend England instead of, say, India even though England makes less money than India?

[lenin96]

Barracks are in the main settlement only.

Can you tell us if it's possible to mod them in for minor settlements?

Anyway great imformation:2thumbsup:.

[SwordsMaster]

Ok. I'm still not too convinced, but I suppose I'll have to wait and see how it works before I come back to criticise again...

[Wandarah]

They won't put it in, because they're too lazy to research the tribes in the areas.

Yes, a title of this size is obviously a product of laziness.