Hello; A few SP questions...

[MajorFreak]

Hi folks! Been playing STW for ages...wonderful game with many quirks. Here are some questions that have been vexing:Charge Bonus: I've read comments that the bonus only lasts for first contact, but it seems to last much longer than that...Am i alone in this assumption?Height Advantage: Follow up to the previous query...I'm assuming this advantage also lasts longer even when the combat becomes a scattered melee, is this the popular opinion?Garrisoning: Is there some advantage gained from putting troops in a fort? Say maybe a better province loyalty rating?Seasoned Generals spawns: I've noticed that a level 2 general is spawned Summer 1541...Is there anyone with a chronological list of Heirs/Generals spawned? (since i've heard such things aren't random)[/list]Advice for buildings: I've got three training castles...I can't decide which is more important...Archery center with potential for Legendary status+Swordsmith (cavalry archers optional)Spear center with potential for Legendary status+Armoury (Naginata & Heavy Cavalry optional)Sword Dojo with potential for Temple[/list]Thanks for taking the time to read and hopefully throw in some advice!

P.s. Almost forgot, the first thing i purchase is a ninja house so i can get my ninjas experienced while they kill shinobu/ninjas (simple passive stuff; no assassination attempts. They hit level 3 in no time flat. w00t!) They are just as good as shinobu and i'm leary of watch towers/border forts since my manual states the latter lowers my provincial loyalty?? Is this true? (follow up to that: Do ninja improve loyalty just like shinobu?)

[This message has been edited by MajorFreak (edited 04-15-2001).]

[borisus]

1-yes the charge bonus lasts for some time,zoom in(/,*)and look at the troops while thay charge,for exemple you can see that when thay charge the SA draw sowrds and lift them above thair heads,even after the impact thay still do that but after some time thay start to fight as usual.

2-i think that the height advantage is in efect as long as the troops stand on the heigher ground.

3-no.

as for the advice,build what is the most needed or acording to your playing style.

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"A WISE MAN ONCE SAID,LETS KICK THAIR ASS!"

[This message has been edited by borisus (edited 04-15-2001).]

[ShaiHulud]

Major... To my knowledge there is no value accrued from having units within the castle.

Re: Heirs list.... If you check the 'Sites' list here and go to 'Shogun Tips'
that site provides heir lists for each clan with year of arrival.

Ninja provide no boost to loyalty and are less efficient at catching other ninja(than are shinobi).

In the same vein as your method for boosting ninja honor, the easiest way I've found for boosting Shinobi honor quickly is to post them in a enemy or ronin province THAT HAS NO border defenses and let them send back info gathered. They gain honor from such spying.

Since the manual also states that border forts act as Shinobi one may assume that they provide a boost to the province they are in, yes? And, ANY improvements begun, according to the manual, has a deleterious effect on loyalty for a while.

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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Hmm. I always thought the decreased honor from improvements comes only with Improved etc. Farmland (since that, unlike castles, is really screwing with the peasant's lives big time), and possibly Mines. The (Euro) manual speaks of "land improvements", and I think calling Border Forts that would be a bit of a stretch...

The manual also states that Border Forts (and Watch Towers) lower loyalty because "nobody likes to feel they're being spied on". Logically, this would mean that they lower loyalty in adjacent *enemy* provinces, but I've never noticed this.

As for the building issue, this depends entirely on what kind of units you like to use. The third option, No-Dachi and Warrior Monks (shock troops) tend to take the biggest casualties though, so their training center will usually be the busiest.

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"1. Gi: the right decision, taken with equanimity, the right attitude, the truth. When we must die, we must die. Rectitude."

[Catiline]

Anssi, adjacentprovinces are being spied on by the otherside, that presumably would increase the peasants loyalty to their own Daimyo.

Also as Anssi says I think it is just farmland improvements that affect loyalty, peasants don't seem fusssed about Dojos.

As to the most important province it depends on your playing style, but I'd say the province making archers. It's surprising what you can do with infantry by changing the way their handled, but without archers you're knackered as you have no covering fire. Defences won't happen and atttacks will get cut up. As a rule if i've got the koku I double up on bog standard type dojos in at least a couple of provinces, so that if something untoward happens I'm not left with out somewhere to make archers or spearmen.

First post -Majorfreak, nice to have you with us http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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It's not a bug, it's a feature

[BanzaiZAP]

Fun thread!

Charge Bonus:
I'm not sure how long it lasts. I don't think the unit graphic really shows the bonus - the archers ALWAYS raise their swords over their heads as they engage. I don't know how to tell when the bonus is applied or not. I have seen many enemy go down under the initial impact, and then start do die in combat, so it doesn't seem to me like the bonus lasts any time length, but only got used for the initial "attack roll," to uses a pen/paper RPG term.

Height Advantage:
Actual combat is tracked per individual soldier, so as long as your guy is uphil of his opponent, he gets the bonus. Even if the units are well mixed on a hillside, it tracks the individual duels, rather than applying a bonus to the unit as whole.

Seasoned Generals spawns:
I think this is different for each clan. Many of those generals are actual historical figures!

Advice for buildings:
This varies with your play style, and also with available koku! Monks are great, but they're also hideously expensive. If you're taking lots of casualties, you may want cheaper troops. Monks die quite easily! I prefer to get standard archers, and give my spear dojo both an armory AND a swordsmith. That way both your yari samurai AND ashigaru are tougher and nastier. Ashigaru become the Secret Cavalry Killers, and soak up even more arrows in bridge-fights.

Personally, I don't use ninja very much. I'd rather get shinobi and kill his generals in combat!

-- B)

[smoothdragon]

I don't believe No-Dachi is worth producing. Even when hitting an archer unit from the flank or rear, the No-Dachi still manages to lose 1/5 or more of its fighting power. I am adverse to producing replacement units that are supposed to be elite but still die like fodder (it's probably why I never use ashi http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif). Warrior monks are expensive but their better defense and devastating offense is well worth it.

I have a question as well:

Will Creative Assembly include an option in a X-pack/sequel where we can relieve our troops? In the Romance of the Three Kingdoms series, a player can send home troops that are obsolete to cut annual expenses. In Shogun, I often find myself with a glut of archers that aren't in service and are only used to finish off seiges. Is there a way now to relieve them or will CA include such an option in a future patch/x-pack/sequel?

[MajorFreak]

Yes, a "mustering out" (read: disbanding) option would be really nice. Though there is a way to upgrade your old units... Quote Kikujiro, the "upgrade" thing is not a cheat / flaw. The game can track the armor / weapon upgrade status for each individual soldier, but the devs have chosen not to. If you combine an unarmored and armored unit (by dropping the former on the latter), all men in the unit will be armored. I think it's not terribly far-fetched to assume that the improved armor will be collected from the armored unit's dead - after all, looting fallen samurai was a big business in 16th century Japan.
Anssi Hakkinen[/QUOTE]Also note that there is an even more recent tip about how to combine units... Quote Go to the options on the menu screen,then click performance.There is a slider at the bottom that changes the number of men in a unit from 60 up to 120.Move it to 120,go back to game and combine the partial units.Go back to options and change it back to 60.Then continue your game.In your example you could make one unit of YC with 75 men in it.
Hosakawa Tito[/QUOTE]There is a bug where you lose your general/heir if you shuffle troops within an army (i believe it happens when you try to upgrade the general by dropping him on a unit within the same army...if you drop a unit on the general it's just a cosmetic bug where you lose the star icon for one turn, but he's still there)

[The Bear]

SMOOTHDRAGON: Yup, No-dachi are WM without the defensive bonus. So I only train no-dachi when i play as Shimazu, because of the +1 honor bonus in SATSUMA and Koku is scarce for Shinazu. I guess they originally intended the no-dachi to be a shock troop substitute for WM when you go Christian. The problem being that the incentives for going Christian do not outweight the cost. Furthermore, if you have already built a temple before going CHristian , you can still produce Monks.

[MajorFreak]

mmmmmmm...here's a question i keep forgetting to ask: Assassination: When does the lowered morale affect an army after the ninja kills the general? Is it during that season or the next?

[ShaiHulud]

Same season, thus you have to commit to both assassination and attack at the same time if you want to get the advantage. Gets touchy if you're facing Takeda Shingen, no? hehe

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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[Shiro]

It's always annoying when you send in a high honor ninja to do the trick and something goes wrong, so you're stuck facing a strong enemy with twice your forces.

IMO, Ninja are not always really worth it.

[This message has been edited by Shiro (edited 04-18-2001).]

[Catiline]

Personally i just use Ninja for the satisfaction of picking off emissaries, which is IMO their only real use unless your particularly rich. In which case you can ussually afford armies that'll boot any aI taisho into touch, so you don't need to go skulking about in the shadows.

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It's not a bug, it's a feature

[MajorFreak]

And yet another question i seem to have forgotten...Moral Support (sorry, bad pun. heh): Okay, so i've got a bridge defense that's sweet as heck. Although i've found my Yari samurai get a bit edgy when there's Ashigura "backing them up". Question is, do Ashigura count for providing a morale boost for Samurai, or not?

[solypsist]

not really. Here's an example how this works:

When an ashigaru unit turns and flees, there's a very good chance nearby ashigaru units will either flee too, or at least start wavering. Nearby samurai units aren't really affected unless a samurai unit flees, then everybody else usually checks their morale (if samurai flee, then lower-level ashigaru will most likely flee too..wouldn't you?)
This said, any troops protecting the rear and flanks do give some kind of bonus, it's not as great as the other way around (samurai flanking ashi), and the difference the ashi back-ups make you probably won't notice in the course of battle. To simplify: no real morale boost unless the ashi unit's honor is equal to or higher than the samurai unit's.

[MajorFreak]

Thanks for that...I assumed the AI was stupid and just assumed if there was even a single unit troop behind a squad it would boost the morale.

(I thought that since i saw a reduced enemy squad flank my guys they got all nervous, THEREFORE it was sort of AI stupidity giving any unit that flanks the same modifier to morale...)


[This message has been edited by MajorFreak (edited 04-20-2001).]

[solypsist]

when an enemy is flanking, it's different. An example:
there is a popular multiplayer strategy in which player A uses some archer cavalry to skirt the battlefield and (secretly) positions them in some woods behind the enemy army. the computer reads this as a potential flank attack (even tho there's no chance Player A will do this, and the archer-cav are invisible and very off to begin with). So to the enemy player, it seems as if his low honor units, ashi and such, start to get nervous and waver for no reason.
Game bug? maybe. But if you're aware of this sort of thing, you can work to avoid it, or at least compensate (what works against you can also work for you)

[ShaiHulud]

Soly... On morale... Ashi need equal or better, you say. Are monks and samurai attributed the same values? Archers, ND? Does an honor 3 Yari get full value from an honor 1 Yari in support?

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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[MajorFreak]

mmmmmm...interesting if he knows the answer.