Police abuses

[Papewaio]

What I query is why so minimal charges and why only one of them?

Surely an adult beating up a child would get far worse?

And two adults together, even if one doesn't do the swinging but ably aids and abets the other by holding the child down?

Or is there somewhere in the law that states cops can do whatever they want and their superiors will let them off?

15-year-old girl 'assaulted' in jail cell: policeman charged (http://www.smh.com.au/world/15yearold-girl-assaulted-in-jail-cell-policeman-charged-20090302-8lmp.html)

[Rhyfelwyr]

Woah, the way he flipped in that video really took me by surprise. :sweatdrop:

The situation doesn't add up from the video, I can only guess he must have been under real stress or something like that, especially considering the way he flails out rather than doing more professional looking moves.

Of course it doesn't make what he did OK, but even policemen are human I suppose.

[tibilicus]

Woah, the way he flipped in that video really took me by surprise. :sweatdrop:

The situation doesn't add up from the video, I can only guess he must have been under real stress or something like that, especially considering the way he flails out rather than doing more professional looking moves.

Of course it doesn't make what he did OK, but even policemen are human I suppose.

was just watching this earlier. Boy does that guy not take to kindly to shoes being flung at him. I guess the girl must of also said something to him that really pushed his buttons.

I trust the courts will deal with this case.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I was going to make a joke about "kid didn't get off their lawn" but it doesn't really fit. :/

[Proletariat]

Can anyone with some legal knowledge weigh in on how the charge was 4th degree assault? What the hell is first degree? Rape? I must be missing something here
:dizzy2:

[Hosakawa Tito]

What I query is why so minimal charges and why only one of them?

Surely an adult beating up a child would get far worse?

And two adults together, even if one doesn't do the swinging but ably aids and abets the other by holding the child down?

Or is there somewhere in the law that states cops can do whatever they want and their superiors will let them off?

15-year-old girl 'assaulted' in jail cell: policeman charged (http://www.smh.com.au/world/15yearold-girl-assaulted-in-jail-cell-policeman-charged-20090302-8lmp.html)

From what I observed, only one officer used excessive force. The other only helped to put on the handcuffs.


Of course it doesn't make what he did OK, but even policemen are human I suppose.

As human as anyone, with all the foibles & weaknesses that implies. The knothead will pay a hefty price, maybe even lose his job. Many city & state lockups have video coverage; I can't imagine he wouldn't know that....

[Major Robert Dump]

I can't believe you people, haven't you ever heard of shoe guns and sock bombs and shoe-lace bio toxins. They had to get that other shoe off her before she hurt someone.

I suppose you think it's wrong to charge people with battery on a police officer when they fart at them, too? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2687768

Next you will tell me that cops shouldn't be allowed to:

Demand free food
http://www.boston.com/news/odd/articles/2008/08/07/chicago_cop_suspended_for_demanding_free_starbucks/

Assault the wal-mart greeter for doing his job
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D960CEBG0&show_article=1&catnum=9

Taser a pregnant woman holding a child and post photos on myspace of guns, drugs and recklessness
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2aa_1197076807

This story is good:
Allegedly arrest the wrong person while the dash cam is mysteriously not on, then forcibly strip search her with male cops, and leave her naked in the cell for 6 hours, and sue the station that airs the video for "invasion of privacy"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvr3dWU4no8&eurl=http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/02/police-assault-woman-who-called-for.html

and my personal favorite,
fart on unconscious woman's head
http://www.8bm.com/diatribes/volume02/005/097.htm

Sorry, got google happy

so did anyone ever hear how that case in LA county turned out with the deputy who told the air force guy to "stand up" then shot him in the back? I can't find anything new on the story

[Major Robert Dump]

Wait I forgot about this old one, I love this one.
Cop pepper sprays girl for possible shortchange in the drive-thru
I ain't got no 20s
http://www.videosift.com/video/Policeman-Pepper-Spray-Teen-For-Short-Change

[Strike For The South]

Bullies whom never grown up.

[Major Robert Dump]

Woot check out the shiners on this lady and check out the pool of blood on the floor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB_Hl4bcQNc&feature=related

[Mooks]

People who like to boss others around look to drill seargents as a nice career to have, people who like to bully others and impose their "authority" look to the police force as a nice career.



Or is there somewhere in the law that states cops can do whatever they want and their superiors will let them off?

The more I read and hear other peoples testimony, the more I think this is true.


This story is good:
Allegedly arrest the wrong person while the dash cam is mysteriously not on, then forcibly strip search her with male cops, and leave her naked in the cell for 6 hours, and sue the station that airs the video for "invasion of privacy"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvr3d...alled-for.html


The people in this video have the same mindset as rapists. Rapists dont rape for sexual release, they do it for the feeling of domination and control.

[Crazed Rabbit]

What I query is why so minimal charges and why only one of them?

They. Are. Police. That is the reason.

My Friend Got Charged With Fourth Degree Assault For Spitting In The Face Of A Guy Who Had Just Spit In His Face. In The Same State.


Or is there somewhere in the law that states cops can do whatever they want and their superiors will let them off?

It's unwritten - the blue wall of silence. Much, much more effective than any 'stop snitching' program.

Take a look at this story. (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/2006-12-14-unser-trial_x.htm) Cops brutalize a man, and one officer from another country spoke up about it at the trial of the brutalized man (as often happens, the police charged the victim with crimes to cover up their own.)

Now, does the Sheriff punish the cops who beat up the victim? No; he calls the boss of the cop who told the truth and complains about him. The cop who tells the truth is put under investigation for wearing his uniform while testifying for the defense.

His boss also apologizes (http://mgbralley-whatswrongwiththispicture.blogspot.com/2006/12/blue-wall-intimidation-and-bullies.html) for the honest cop who had the gall to tell the truth:
“As Secretary of the APOA i feel it is my duty and responsibility to apologize to you and your officers. Ofc. Sam Costales does not represent APD/APOA. The majority of our officers look at the BCSO as our brother and sisters in blue. We are embarrassed and ashamed of Ofc. Costales's testimony in the Unser trial. If there is anything we can do to rebuild the damage caused by Sam please let me know.”

Some more:
ALBUQUERQUE — An Albuquerque police officer has sued his boss and the Bernalillo County sheriff, alleging he has been defamed and retaliated against since testifying against Bernalillo County deputies in a resisting arrest trial.

Officer Sam Costales, in a federal lawsuit filed last week, alleged there's an unwritten "blue code of silence" in which officers are expected to lie or keep silent to avoid contradicting fellow officers or situations that would make another law enforcement agency look bad.

And he said officers who break that code are punished by "derogatory comments and smear campaigns," ostracism within the department and retaliation and by other officers refusing to back them up on calls in the field.

Costales is seeking unspecified damages.

His lawsuit, which alleges violations of civil rights, was filed against Police Chief Ray Schultz, Sheriff Darren White, Albuquerque Police Officer Association secretary James Badway, the police department, the sheriff's office and five officers identified as John Does.

A spokeswoman for White said Tuesday he had not received the complaint and could not comment. The deputy city attorney who handles such complaints is out of the country

and unavailable for comment, her office said Tuesday.
Four-time Indy 500 winner Al Unser Sr. was arrested in August 2006 on charges of disobeying police orders to leave a roadblock at a crime scene near his property. Unser was acquitted last December.

Costales, 52, was subpoenaed by the defense and testified on Unser's behalf, telling jurors he saw deputies pull Unser from his vehicle and throw him to the ground. His testimony, in which he described deputies' actions as "rude" and unprofessional, contradicted sheriff's deputies.

Schultz later announced an internal investigation into whether Costales had reported his version to superiors and into why he wore his police uniform when testifying; the department subsequently cleared Costales of any wrongdoing.

The lawsuit said Costales witnessed the deputies' "rough treatment and improper arrest of Mr. Unser and it made him sick to his stomach."

He said he reported the alleged misconduct to his superior, but neither the police or sheriff's departments investigated. He also alleged that instead of investigating deputies' actions, White called Schultz to complain about Costales' testimony.

The lawsuit said that despite requests for transfer, Costales remains on patrol in a dangerous neighborhood, under a cloud of hostility, and wonders every time he gets a call whether other officers will back him up.

Costales said criticism by White and Schultz created a hostile and potentially life-threatening work environment and that stress has forced him to seek mental health treatment and take medication for anxiety and sleeplessness.


so did anyone ever hear how that case in LA county turned out with the deputy who told the air force guy to "stand up" then shot him in the back? I can't find anything new on the story

Nope, haven't read what happened. It's amazing what police get away with - incredible, in that it defies credibility. There are thugs with badges, and there are cops who don't report them. There are precious few 'good cops'.


The knothead will pay a hefty price, maybe even lose his job.

As opposed to normal people, who would go to jail.


I trust the courts will deal with this case.

You can't trust the courts or internal police reviews in this country. Cops can, and have, get away with murder.

In summary - Never talk to the police. Never trust them. Never let them in or search anything if they ask.

They are not your friends.

CR

[Major Robert Dump]

I actually know a lot of good cops, but I'm sure even they could lose their temper if in difficult situations, and sometimes I hear them complain of situations where cops are being punished for something and I think, wow, they are getting what they deserve whats the problems. All in all, it's not a job I would care to have

It's really like any other line of work in that you will have people working there who are not-so level headed. Most police stations do ploygraphs for applicants, which are honestly a total load of crap because they don't prove anything. I think PDs that require their officers to have bachelors degrees prior to hiring typically have a more solid roster of quality cops, but anymore a degree can be obtained fairly easily so maybe it will become irrelevant.

I did, however, finally get rid of my old surveillance equipment from my PI days and buy a small minicam which I usually keep with me. They come in very handy. Had a small mini recorder that looked like a ballpoint pen that actually saved my butt in a wrongful termination lawsuit when I worked for a large retailer. Then I almost got fired for violating company policy by recording. I record everything now, down to the guy on the phone telling me the checks in the mail

[Crazed Rabbit]

Yeah, there are cops who do intend to do good.

But they are, sadly, the same ones who cover for the bad cops.

Being cooperative with most probably wouldn't be a problem. But it can turn into a big problem, and I don't see a reason to take that chance.

Surveillance is always a good idea. The only reason we're hearing about this is because of the video.

CR

[rasoforos]

Second guy is not charged because he didn't participate and was under training...

...judging by how he stood idle while a grown up man was beating a teenage girl I can say that he is definitely perfect cop material.

It is a sickening assault. Unfortunately the police attracts bullies and good for nothings who want to have power. In Greece (my country) policemen ranks somewhere between slime molds and snails in the great list of things mainly because of only using force (unnecessarily) when the odds are for them.

If that person goes unpunished (and proper punishment would be imprisonment) the respect for police will fall even more and I am also afraid that people might start taking the law in their hands. He should receive exemplary punishment and not a free holiday like he did.

[naut]

In summary - Never talk to the police. Never trust them. Never let them in or search anything if they ask.

They are not your friends.
:bow:

[Husar]

Their motto here is:

Your friend and helper.

or

Dein Freund und Helfer.

Some black sheep as well I'm sure but generally I haven't noticed many problems with our police here.
Could be that they require Abitur or so.

[InsaneApache]

I'm sure I've posted this in the past. Anyway about a decade ago I was on holiday in the Algarve and was watching the local Portuguese telly in a bar.

The scene I witnessed was, to say the least, bizzare. There was hundreds of GNR guys beseiging a town police station. The local police were in riot gear and the GNR guys were in full uniform. After a while the GNR guys threw all their weapons into a huge pile in front of the police station door and then a fight started.

I watched, bemused, as they slugged it out, live on screen. I turned to the barmaid and asked her what was going on. She said that two GNR guys had beaten a gypsy to death and had been promptly arrested by the town police. Their colleagues had then marched on the station demanding that they be let out and chanting that they couldn't arrest us, we are the police! :dizzy2:

It cartainly made my day watching coppers bash other coppers. A win win. :2thumbsup: :laugh4:

[Papewaio]

From what I observed, only one officer used excessive force. The other only helped to put on the handcuffs.

A cop who has someone in their custody has a duty of care to them. A minor should not be put in this situation where they can be violently assaulted. So why can't the state which is ultimately responsible for these guys be sued?

If Joe Citizen held down a child, held her hands behind her back so she cannot shield her face, and then watch John Doe smash his fist into her head a couple of times, said Joe Citizen would not be charged with aiding a crime?

I do not agree with the idea that cops are above the law. My own view of how the law would be approximately the following:

1. Normal crime, normal punishment.
2. Attack a cop or a judge in uniform, higher punishment for the crime.
3. A crime committed by a citizen who is within the law system and within their purview, the higher punishment for the crime then those above.

[Hosakawa Tito]

A cop who has someone in their custody has a duty of care to them. A minor should not be put in this situation where they can be violently assaulted. So why can't the state which is ultimately responsible for these guys be sued?

If Joe Citizen held down a child, held her hands behind her back so she cannot shield her face, and then watch John Doe smash his fist into her head a couple of times, said Joe Citizen would not be charged with aiding a crime?

I do not agree with the idea that cops are above the law. My own view of how the law would be approximately the following:

1. Normal crime, normal punishment.
2. Attack a cop or a judge in uniform, higher punishment for the crime.
3. A crime committed by a citizen who is within the law system and within their purview, the higher punishment for the crime then those above.

Here's a follow up article. (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/399955_deputyweb13.html) He will also face Department charges on top of the criminal/civil ones. Google 4th degree assault in Washington State: the penalty is possible 1 year in jail & $5,000 fine.The officer overreacted to the female kicking her shoe at him. He was well within his right to place her on the wall to subdue/restrain her and place cuffs on her. Taking her down by the hair and punching her on the ground when it was obvious by the video that she was not resisting constitutes excessive force, being a minor has no real relavence, he'd be just as wrong if it was an adult. The second officer involved will be required to provide written testimony on what happened, and with video of the incident there's no way he could lie about it. He will have to testify against the agressor or face criminal and departmental charges himself. Unless one can prove he purposely held the victim down so the other could assault her, which I don't think one can, he was following procedure to restrain and handcuff a person who assaulted (kicking a shoe) at a fellow officer. It's not his fault that the officer used excessive force instead of just restraining/controlling/handcuffing that person.

We have been using video's in any of the jails I have worked at for years. I welcome them because they also protect and provide evidence for me and my colleagues from assault and justify our use of force. We don't get paid to be punching bags for every anti-social :daisy:, and aren't required to, but you gotta use your head, know the law and follow correct procedures.

Seems to be a lot of assumption & inuendo made here, but cops only seem to make the best headlines when some of them do something wrong. People tend to forget that they are us...


Second guy is not charged because he didn't participate and was under training...


Don't know how true this statement is, but if he's a trainee than that means he's also on probation. So he's at the mercy of the Department and can lose his job even if not charged with a crime. IG will make him a deal he can't refuse.

[InsaneApache]

I'm sorry. I don't know what universe you inhabit but being a minor in my opinion does make a difference. An adult has full recourse to the law, a minor is a child and as such must be protected at all costs by the law/authorities

Anything else is a travesty of common decency.

[Major Robert Dump]

He was merely pointing out that the law doesn't differentiate between victims ages unless the law broken was one where a person being a minor is inherent in the law itself, like child endangerment or contributing to the delinquency of a minor. In other words, assault and battery is assault and battery, whether the victim is 27 or 15. If the prosecutor wants something pertaining specifically to the fact that it was a child, there are a whole slew of child abuse/child neglect/sexual assault laws that do take age into account. A lot of states have adopted statutes where sexual assault of someone under 12 is a different and more hefty charge.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I'm sorry. I don't know what universe you inhabit....

Your point could have been made without the verbal slight, IA. Poor form.

[Papewaio]

If you are under sixteen in NSW and you are given dental or medical treatment without your guardians consent. The Dr can be charged with assault and battery.

49 Medical and dental treatment

(1) Where medical treatment or dental treatment of a minor aged less than sixteen years is carried out with the prior consent of a parent or guardian of the person of the minor, the consent has effect in relation to a claim by the minor for assault or battery in respect of anything done in the course of that treatment as if, at the time when the consent is given, the minor were aged twenty-one years or upwards and had authorised the giving of the consent.

(2) Where medical treatment or dental treatment of a minor aged fourteen years or upwards is carried out with the prior consent of the minor, his or her consent has effect in relation to a claim by him or her for assault or battery in respect of anything done in the course of that treatment as if, at the time when the consent is given, he or she were aged twenty-one years or upwards.

(3) This section does not affect:

(a) such operation as a consent may have otherwise than as provided by this section, or

(b) the circumstances in which medical treatment or dental treatment may be justified in the absence of consent.

Minors generally can't be charged as an adult. And adults that do crimes against children are generally given harsher treatment. Although there are obvious breaches of this (a man who raped a 4 year old got a suspended sentence :wall: ).

[Hosakawa Tito]

I'm sorry. I don't know what universe you inhabit but being a minor in my opinion does make a difference. An adult has full recourse to the law, a minor is a child and as such must be protected at all costs by the law/authorities

Anything else is a travesty of common decency.

I'm merely pointing out that the charge of 4th degree assault & use of excessive force isn't age specific, and minors have as much protection under the law as anyone. Let's also not forget the 15 year old isn't being held for stealing bubble gum. And though the video doesn't show it, judging from the officer's explosive reaction I imagine the shoe struck him in the "family jewels". That doesn't justify use of excessive force, but I wonder what the average person's reaction would be to being kicked in the crotch....

[InsaneApache]

Your point could have been made without the verbal slight, IA. Poor form.

You're right, I apologise Hosakawa Tito. One too many before bed. :shame:

[Kralizec]

but even policemen are human I suppose.

Policemen are supposed to be professionals and able to keep their head cool under stressful situations. This guy should be fired and charged for assault :juggle2:

[LittleGrizzly]

And though the video doesn't show it, judging from the officer's explosive reaction I imagine the shoe struck him in the "family jewels". That doesn't justify use of excessive force, but I wonder what the average person's reaction would be to being kicked in the crotch....

I certainly wouldn't explode into violence, i have had a good few situation where i could have hit a minor (with a similar amount of justification to this guy) had a girl half my size jump up and hit me in the eye (it didn't hurt... bit of a shock though) and a little kid poke me in the eye on purpose (though he did apologise just after im sure he did it on porpuse and it stung a little)

I would expect a police officer to be at least as cool headed as me, i would never hit someone who's being restrained by someone else, its just wrong and even more so in this situation...

What should the trainee officer have done ?

Ill admit if i was a trainee i wouldn't be quite sure what to do.... do you stop your senior officer ? can you be sure your supposed to stop your senior officer or if your supposed to handcuff the minor ?

[Mooks]

[B]
What should the trainee officer have done ?

Ill admit if i was a trainee i wouldn't be quite sure what to do.... do you stop your senior officer ? can you be sure your supposed to stop your senior officer or if your supposed to handcuff the minor ?


If you see ANYONE hitting a restrained little girl then you should stop them.

[Papewaio]

I'm merely pointing out that the charge of 4th degree assault & use of excessive force isn't age specific, and minors have as much protection under the law as anyone. Let's also not forget the 15 year old isn't being held for stealing bubble gum. And though the video doesn't show it, judging from the officer's explosive reaction I imagine the shoe struck him in the "family jewels". That doesn't justify use of excessive force, but I wonder what the average person's reaction would be to being kicked in the crotch....

I see 3 sets of issues here.

1. Violent cop.
2. Systemic corruption in the lack of charges & what would be expected to happen to someone else in the wider community.
3. Failure of duty of care for a professional with a minor in there care.

1 = Bad
2 = Unjust
3 = Unethical

Not sure what video you are watching. Because the shoe doesn't seem to get very high nor very fast, so unless the cop is hung like a donkey (which given his anger levels indicates more like Maradona)... then I don't think it got him in the family jewels.

Nor would it excuse his assault. Nor does it excuse what seems to the rest of the world a systemic problem where the cop is getting a soft touch in charging from his superiors. I do still wonder what would happen to two adults who were not police officers doing the same thing. It seems most people have skirted that. If two adults did this would they expect at worst 4th degree assault for one and sweet nothing for the other? I don't think so. And this is were the law is falling, the moment there is one law for one set and another for the rest it is the very definition of corrupt.

Generally for professionals (Dentists, Doctors, School Teachers) they have a duty of care to minors. This results in the potential for charges to be laid against the professionals if they do something to a minor while they have authority over them, charges that would not be applicable for other adults who do not have a duty of care to them. For instance the age of consent used to be higher for students and their teacher. So I do find it abhorrent that this is a minor who is getting assaulted. Just because the Law does not differentiate this, does not make the situation just.

[LittleGrizzly]

If you see ANYONE hitting a restrained little girl then you should stop them.

Of course you do... i was just ... thinking out loud shall we say, about why the trainee officer reacted how he did...

I simply said i would be quite unsure what to do...

It is hard when your personal morals point to one course of action and then someone senior to you in work points to a different course of action...

I can't remember the study or the findings to well, but didn't they basically prove that most people would follow bad orders given the right conditioning/scenario ?

Though i haven't watched the video my post was mainly based on what has been said in the thread...

[Scurvy]

Unacceptable from a police officer judging by the video, although I think your being slightly unfair on the trainee, up until the punches on the floor, it was no more than (extremely) over-zealous restraint, which police sometimes have to do, it is also not shown what occured previously - I fear I would act in a similar way to the trainee in that situation, and it's very easy to fool yourself into thinking you would act differently in any given situation - the officer doing the assualt should be charged and fired though

[Papewaio]

BTW the teenager was booked with third degree assault for her part in the fracas. :laugh4:

[Husar]

Well, I say sack the police officer if I haven't yet.
The shoe can't possibly have hurt him, there's no real energy or force behind it from what can be seen in the video.

The trainee, well, either he is a scumbag as well or he just knew that if he didn't do what the other guy did he might lose his job/be considered a rat etc. That's group behaviour/esprit de corps/whatever it's called for you.

[Whacker]

One of the biggest problems I have with police these days is the refusal to admit any kind of wrongdoing under any circumstances. I'm not sure if this is wholly or partially driven by legal accountability, but it still disgusts me. I watched this video, the cop was clearly way out of bounds and out of control. The legal system can and should punish him for it. It's not only this instance either, the recent video of the guy shooting the person who was already restrained on the ground and not resisting, random videos like what Mr. Dumper posted, those all disgust me. The police administrations over those individuals should have admitted what happened, apologized, and worked to make amends for what happened. This constant "We were in the right, it was justified" BS does nothing to help themselves or their image with the public. And people wonder why kids (and adults) these days do not like cops in general.

Regarding some of the sentiments expressed that the cop "was only human"... While that is true, law enforcement is a serious matter that deals with our civil liberties and rights, and also life or death situations. Law enforcement officers by definition have the ability to affect these rights in many different ways in the course of doing their jobs, therefore they MUST be held to the utmost rigorous standards given what is at stake.

[Hosakawa Tito]

You're right, I apologise Hosakawa Tito. One too many before bed. :shame:

That's quite all right IA; I took no offense. It's an emotional subject with little real evidence available to us of all the mitigating circumstances that led up to this apparent use of excessive force, heck there isn't even any audio which would be a big help. However, something caused this officer to react the way he did, and that is what needs to be found out and addressed so measures can be taken to try and prevent future incidents. One can enact all the laws, rules, procedures & directives one wants, but it's always the human element in the equation that trips us up. All one can do is require that law enforcement act in good faith and to the best of their abilities in the performance of their duties.


Not sure what video you are watching. Because the shoe doesn't seem to get very high nor very fast, so unless the cop is hung like a donkey (which given his anger levels indicates more like Maradona)... then I don't think it got him in the family jewels.

Mere speculation on my part as are many of the assumptions on what led up to the incident, including the charges or lack thereof so far. We have no idea about what occured from the moment this young person was apprehended up to the beginning of that video, nor the officer's role in any of it except what the video has shown. You might be entirely right or only partially right in your speculations; without more of the story and the time to analyse the info and why it happened as it did...who really knows for sure. This one's in the public spotlight and there will be an accounting.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I'm merely pointing out that the charge of 4th degree assault & use of excessive force isn't age specific, and minors have as much protection under the law as anyone. Let's also not forget the 15 year old isn't being held for stealing bubble gum. And though the video doesn't show it, judging from the officer's explosive reaction I imagine the shoe struck him in the "family jewels". That doesn't justify use of excessive force, but I wonder what the average person's reaction would be to being kicked in the crotch....

I read an AP article saying that, according to court documents, the shoe struck him about the knee.

The BBC has a version of the video where you can see the shoe striking the officer and you can see clearly he does not flinch as he would if it struck his crotch with any force.

I believe police and other such agents should be charged with harsher penalties for the same crimes, because of the greater responsibility they have, and the fact that they have abused their power and responsibility. But I'd settle for them getting equal treatment.

Fun fact - I talked with my mom about this, and she told me how my Uncle was attacked by cops way back. He was a passenger in a car stopped by cops and started asking questions and generally not being a submissive little peasants. So the cops hit him a bit. My grandmother takes him to complain and the police say they can't file a complaint because they don't live in Milwaukee (where the attack happened) but outside of the city. And they said my uncle 'fell' down on his own. Funny how so many people lose all coordination around cops.

CR

[Yoyoma1910]

I read an AP article saying that, according to court documents, the shoe struck him about the knee.

The BBC has a version of the video where you can see the shoe striking the officer and you can see clearly he does not flinch as he would if it struck his crotch with any force.

I believe police and other such agents should be charged with harsher penalties for the same crimes, because of the greater responsibility they have, and the fact that they have abused their power and responsibility. But I'd settle for them getting equal treatment.

Fun fact - I talked with my mom about this, and she told me how my Uncle was attacked by cops way back. He was a passenger in a car stopped by cops and started asking questions and generally not being a submissive little peasants. So the cops hit him a bit. My grandmother takes him to complain and the police say they can't file a complaint because they don't live in Milwaukee (where the attack happened) but outside of the city. And they said my uncle 'fell' down on his own. Funny how so many people lose all coordination around cops.

CR

It's a good thing there are cameras to watch the cops now. Maybe your uncle will quit falling down so much.

[Major Robert Dump]

Another one of my favorites:

this kid put a camera in his car and went to an area where a local cop had apparently harrassed and falsely arrested one of his friends. What ensues is utterly shocking, when he stops in an empty commuter parking lot, the cop threatens him with false charges, no turn signal (lie), almost hitting the cop car on the turn (cop was off his side of the road), swerving (lie),admits to screwing the guys friend, sees the camera and says he would just tear it out after the arrest -- and then doesn't arrest the kid and lets him go with the camera even after the kid tells him the city of St Louis had settled with him for a previous police brutality case (i think back up arrived so the cop had to back off a little). This cop is the height of stupidity. Enjoy:


http://www.noob.us/miscellaneous/cop-lies-and-threatens-kid-for-nothing/


I once posted this on another forum and, in true nature of the "we all stick together no matter what" mentality that has been discussed here, some people in law enforcement were like "OMGZ HE PUT A CAMERA IN HIS CAR AND WENT LOOKING FOR TROUBLE WHAT A SCUMBAG" Cuz, ya know, that totally excuses the cops habitual behavior.

Hmmm, I had a link to the police chief defending the cop, but the page has since been disabled. I might also note that the police officers dash cam was mysteriously not on, ya know, the cam would "show a different story." Riiiight.

[Major Robert Dump]

Baltimore cop telling some children they can't skateboard at the location, except one kid has headphones and doesn't immediately hear......hilarity ensues....wow, I mean wow, just wow


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GgWrV8TcUc&eurl=http://www.infowars.net/articles/february2008/120208Cop.htm

[Whacker]

It's a good thing there are cameras to watch the cops now. Maybe your uncle will quit falling down so much.

What makes it even more fun for everyone is that laws are starting to spring up which state something along the lines of "people cannot film or photograph cops while performing their duties", under the guise of it being a tool for organized crime to perform reprisals on individual's families.

[Major Robert Dump]

Hey, look, Fatty the Baltimore cop (from above) strikes again!!! I hope this guys career came to a grinding halt.....but probably not. Maybe he's just mad he doesn't get a real cop car....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Mts9gMGKo

[InsaneApache]

Why is he dressed like that? and why is he driving around in a Noddy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noddy_(character)) car?

I think I'd be pissed off if I had to dress as a clown and drive a toy car for a job. :laugh4:

He's just a bully and needs bringing down a peg or two.

[Major Robert Dump]

Cop arrests firefighter who is trying to treat a wounded accident victim, because fireman wouldn't move the truck

http://flashovertv.firerescue1.com/Clip.aspx?key=D199D2C3A56E6F86

[Crazed Rabbit]

Cop shoots dog, then the department changes its story after they find the woman videotaped the incident:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FFlWGeb_aw

CR

[Major Robert Dump]

hey thats down the street from me CR

heres some cops shooting a peaceful protester with rubber bullets, then laughing about it later in the AAR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G63FEamhpA0&feature=related

[Yoyoma1910]

What those cops really needed was a horse (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc9QpcTXt4U), to block the camera.

[Major Robert Dump]

Speaking of dogs getting shot, at 3:03 in this old video they shoot a dog that must weigh all of 6 pounds. the suspects turned out not to be the ones the cops were looking for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv0T2X1dXcI&feature=related

[Crazed Rabbit]

And this classic one of a Chicago cop beating up a small woman (http://www.policeabuse.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=699) bartender (and initially getting a misdemeanor after investigating cops refused to look at the video). A 2020 video that includes more police abuse and an investigation into the code of silence.

CR

[Major Robert Dump]

hey i remember that one, the bystanders in that bar are ***** for not helping out, I don't care if he was an off-duty cop, once you start breaking the law you have to pay the piper, too. Makes me sick the cops tried to cover it up and it had to be leaked to the press.

Reminds me of the "tragedy" of the off-duty cop who was shot by responding deputies while trying to apprehend some "hooligans" in a parking lot, turns out he was drunk (drunk and gun is no-no) and the surveillance from inside the restraunt shows that he started the fight. A tragedy, not quite.

Cops tell crippled man to "stand up" then dump him out of wheelchair.
http://www.policeabuse.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=328

[RZST]

heres the kicker though. what do we DONT see?

what happened before the incident?

did the girl say anything?
did the girl threaten the officers?

look, im not taking the police side on this but i dont judge quickly too. i like to see the WHOLE picture.

(yes yes, the officer mmad the little girl to hell but there HAS to be a reason why yes?)

[Yoyoma1910]

I don't have a video, but here is the Wiki on

Antoinette Frank. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoinette_Frank)

A New Orleans police officer. She robbed a restaurant, where she offered off duty protection, murdering her partner and two restaurant employees.

[Major Robert Dump]

And this classic one of a Chicago cop beating up a small woman (http://www.policeabuse.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=699) bartender (and initially getting a misdemeanor after investigating cops refused to look at the video). A 2020 video that includes more police abuse and an investigation into the code of silence.

CR

That whole news story is good, has some stuff already posted, but the cop on cop DUI stop near the end really says more than nay of us ever could.

[Major Robert Dump]

heres the kicker though. what do we DONT see?

what happened before the incident?

did the girl say anything?
did the girl threaten the officers?

look, im not taking the police side on this but i dont judge quickly too. i like to see the WHOLE picture.

(yes yes, the officer mmad the little girl to hell but there HAS to be a reason why yes?)


Which clip are you talking about?

[RZST]

the OP one XD

[Crazed Rabbit]

From reading various articles, I do not think the girl threatened the officer. She may have been less than polite. That's the sum of what happened before.

There is a reason - the cop is a bully, who thinks that he's above the law.


Cops tell crippled man to "stand up" then dump him out of wheelchair.

I'm surprised the cops apologized. I mean, of course they should, but so often they don't.

CR

[Xiahou]

From reading various articles, I do not think the girl threatened the officer. She may have been less than polite. That's the sum of what happened before.
It really doesn't matter anyhow. I'm not aware of any rule that allows a cop to give a suspect in custody a savage beating, no matter what the suspect says to them.

In these videos, I work under the assumption that we're not seeing the whole story. I assume she was mean, rude, uncooperative ect. Clearly, the officer was very mad at her. But that's still no justification for what he did. They were locking her in a cell when she half-heartedly kicked a shoe at him and he responded by beating her. There's no justification for that no matter how much she antagonized the him. :no:

[Papewaio]

Justice Dept. looking into alleged deputy assault (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=76238&page=36)

"Assistant US Attorney Kelly Harris says the Justice Department just got its first look at the video Friday and that federal charges may be warranted.

“We do have jurisdiction anytime there is an allegation of excessive force by a police officer,” said Harris. "It falls under deprivation of rights under the color of law. It's a federal criminal statute.”"

I hope the feds throw the book at him. Just wonder if there is something for conspiracy to pervert justice as the rest of the department didn't do such a bang up job in charging him correctly... although there is enough evidence to say that even internally the investigators were not impressed with Schene's statements. I wonder if they will reopen his shooting and killing someone at a federal level. If the Sheriff's department can't effectively uncover such an assault until the video went public what actually happened at the shooting?

And the car... apparently she took her mums car without permission.

"According to court documents, Calhoun complained of breathing problems after the episode and medics were called to check her. A short time later, she was taken to a youth detention center and booked for investigation of auto theft and third-degree assault, the latter accusation concerning the confrontation with the deputy. Calhoun has pleaded innocent to taking a motor vehicle without permission. She was never formally charged with assault."

And I still love how she was going to be up for third-degree for the fight when it was all one way in the physical blows from the cop... who btw is 6'2" and 195 pounds... not some little guy with a Napoleon complex.

[KukriKhan]

The biggest problem with an authority figure abusing his granted power is the eventual breakdown of respect for the rule of law.

Just look at the lack of respect shown law enforcement in general in this thread, comprised of posters from all over america, europe and australia.

THAT is why "assault under color of law" is assault of the worst kind, and is rightfully sanctioned severely in viable republics/democracies.

[_Tristan_]

I do not agree with the idea that cops are above the law. My own view of how the law would be approximately the following:

1. Normal crime, normal punishment.
2. Attack a cop or a judge in uniform, higher punishment for the crime.
3. A crime committed by a citizen who is within the law system and within their purview, the higher punishment for the crime then those above.

I don't know if this is the case in most countries but I can tell you that in France, commiting any offense while being employed by the Police is an aggravation by itself (whatever the offense from theft to violence...).

And I can tell you that it is judged particularly severely in courts.

As a counterpoint, law officers (judges/policemen) are protected and violence against them is also aggravated. But, I know, from first-hand experience that the courts are more lenient against the offenders against cops than they are against their victims...

There are no excuse to the behaviour of that cop in the cell, but as some of the posters stated, being a cop is not being a super-hero... They are as fallible as the next guy, altyhough they should be held to a higher standard.

The fact is that there is no way to know what went down between the girl and the cop(s) before she was put into that cell.

How was she arrested ? I read she was arrested for car theft... Maybe she tried to run one of the cops over...

I am not trying to excuse the man but only to find some rationale for his "losing it big time"...

[Xiahou]

And this classic one of a Chicago cop beating up a small woman (http://www.policeabuse.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=699) bartender (and initially getting a misdemeanor after investigating cops refused to look at the video). A 2020 video that includes more police abuse and an investigation into the code of silence.

CR
Holy cow, the one where the cop turns off the camera when dealing with a drunken woman in custody is astonishing- I think it's around the 7 minute mark. Clearly getting angry, he walks over to the camera and turns it off. When it's turned back on her hair and clothes are in total disarray and she's laying on the floor in a pool of blood. He explains that she slipped. :no:


The biggest problem with an authority figure abusing his granted power is the eventual breakdown of respect for the rule of law.

Just look at the lack of respect shown law enforcement in general in this thread, comprised of posters from all over america, europe and australia.

THAT is why "assault under color of law" is assault of the worst kind, and is rightfully sanctioned severely in viable republics/democracies.You're always going to have a few bad eggs, no matter how how hard you try to screen them out. I think everyone understands that. The problem is when the "good" cops keep their mouths shut or, even worse, try to cover up for them out of some misplaced sense of brotherhood.

It would be a lot better if the bad cops were singled out and reported by their peers. But instead, it seems like their culture makes it so that its the one who blows the whistle on their abuse of power who is ostracized and punished.

[Whacker]

You're always going to have a few bad eggs, no matter how how hard you try to screen them out. I think everyone understands that. The problem is when the "good" cops keep their mouths shut or, even worse, try to cover up for them out of some misplaced sense of brotherhood.

My personal perception is that the number of "bad eggs" is far greater than others would state it is. All my life I've hated cops, given my interactions with them, even when I wasn't a bit of a troublemaker in my teens (note that I have never been arrested or even handcuffed in my entire life). There are a few that teach at my Kung Fu school, as I've got to know them they do seem more human and one can see their side of the fence a bit better, but my general dislike remains. This thread hasn't helped of course.


It would be a lot better if the bad cops were singled out and reported by their peers. But instead, it seems like their culture makes it so that its the one who blows the whistle on their abuse of power who is ostracized and punished.

"Don't snitch." Not only that, but the upper echelons of police structures will generally do whatever it takes to back up their subordinates, even when they are clearly in the wrong and way out of bounds. Again this is what I maintain perpetuates and if anything is strengthening the "I don't like cops" attitude that in my view is becoming much more prevalant through the US.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Here's another recent one:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/sfl-bn-0304video,0,1616907.story

Watch the video.


Sunrise man cleared after elevator video shows he did not batter Fort Lauderdale officers
Sunrise man had been accused of attacking officers

By Tonya Alanez | South Florida Sun-Sentinel
March 5, 2009

After a beat down in an elevator, Joshua Daniel Ortiz ended up with his nose broken and facing a charge of battering a Fort Lauderdale Is your Fort Lauderdale restaurant clean? - Click Here. police officer.

The 22-year-old Sunrise man was surprised and delighted to learn Wednesday that Broward prosecutors were dropping the case against him after reviewing an elevator surveillance video showing three officers aggressively rush and beat Ortiz to the ground.

Once the Dec. 5 video surfaced, it altered the course of the case. It contradicted police reports that Ortiz provoked and attacked Officers Derek Lade, Stefan Silver and Steve Smith.

"They were just sitting there watching my life go down the drain with those charges," Ortiz said Wednesday. "I've been going crazy thinking my life is over. It's barely started and it's over."

The looming legal charges delayed Ortiz's enrollment in college classes, he said.

Police first charged Ortiz with felony battery on a law enforcement officer.

But after seeing the video obtained by Ortiz's defense attorney, Stephen Melnick, prosecutors downgraded the charge to a misdemeanor resisting charge. Upon further review, prosecutors dropped the case entirely.

Once again, we have the cops attacking an innocent man, because they are cowards and bullies.

Once again, we have them charging the assault victim with a crime and lying about what he did.

And for the latest ************* time in a row, we have the cops getting away without any punishment!


Fort Lauderdale police internal affairs investigators reviewed the incident more than a month ago and found no violations of policy or procedures, said Sgt. Frank Sousa, the department's spokesman.

"It was not a beating," Sousa said. "The video clearly shows that [Ortiz] made a movement toward the officer.

Not a beating? He got his nose broke, because he approached an officer with his hands down? What kind of planet are these guys on? What kind of country do they think they live in? The thing that gets me most is that they know exactly.

They attacked him and tried to destroy his whole life with false charges. They wanted to destroy his life to cover their bullying, arrogant actions.

And they receive no punishment!

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -
-- Thomas Jefferson

CR

[InsaneApache]

Hands down CR? He had them in his pockets, that's even worse.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Remember how cops often shoot-on-sight (http://www.scntx.com/articles/2009/02/21/breaking_news/98.txt) any dogs (http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/article971611.ece)they come across that do not immediately run away? If they come to your house and your dog barks or bounds out to meet them (http://www.sdcitybeat.com/cms/story/detail/do_everything_you_can_to_save_my_dog/7584/) or even is chained up (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/012209dnmetgarland.16d2a18d.html?ocp=1#slcgm_comments_anchor) it's likely to get killed and the cop receive no punishment.

But should a police dog die of natural causes, they'll give it a grand funeral (http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/mar/07/police-dog-remembered/). The double standard is disgusting, and symbolic of what is wrong with the police. (http://forums.officer.com/showpost.php?p=1594650&postcount=11)

CR

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Okay, so the general sentiment of many posters is that far too many police are abusive and/or actively counterproductive.

What is to be done?

Do we dispense with police forces and rely on local committees of vigilance?

Do we dispense with police forces and leave law enforcement up to the citizens themselves?

Do we disarm police?

In other words, please shift from "what's wrong" to "what's to be done."

[Husar]

From a conservative point of view, nothing would be done as that would be progressive and only lefties are progressive. ~;)

Well, as for my POV, I think the police force should undergo some changes, a bit less brotherhood, training with an emphasis on helping people, not shooting people. Maybe a different motto and perhaps reliable checks and balances that are not police officers themselves.

[KukriKhan]

Much of police work requires the guy to be a mostly independent operator, making judgments on behalf of the government/people, and taking what he thinks is appropriate action.

I wouldn't take that away. Instead: tech-up. I'd find better ways to monitor our public guardians, for review by their non-uniformed authorities. Individual policeman-mounted minicams/sound recorders, gps trackers, portable, easily-accessable criminal databases and law libraries for his reference. That kinda stuff.

When a bad one shows up, or a good one has a really bad day, the record will show his mistakes, as well as any aggrevating circumstances.

[Crazed Rabbit]

The problem, as I see it, is that police are not accountable.

So we need to make them accountable. There has to be real punishment when they screw up.

Immunity for their actions must be removed, so they can be sued individually, and we can let a jury decide if what they did was right. This is a very important part. Right now the punishment is decided by their brothers-in-arms - we need an independent review and application of the same laws to police that they would face if they were civilians.

If a cop comes to your house without a warrant and shoots your dog, he must receive the same punishment as anybody else.

They must face real punishment - civilian review boards with access to absolutely all files in a case, with the power to suspend and fire officers.

All laws against surveillance of the police must be overturned immediately.

Their files on their activities must be completely public - reports of all raids carried out and the individual result of each raid.

It must be a felony for a police officer to lie on a report. Those who lie to cover up crimes or implicate the innocent must face especially serious charges.

In short, we must completely tear asunder the blue code of silence and leave cops open to all normal avenues of punishment in our legal system.

This is just off the top of my head.

CR

[Major Robert Dump]

Okay, so the general sentiment of many posters is that far too many police are abusive and/or actively counterproductive.

What is to be done?

Do we dispense with police forces and rely on local committees of vigilance?

Do we dispense with police forces and leave law enforcement up to the citizens themselves?

Do we disarm police?

In other words, please shift from "what's wrong" to "what's to be done."



What's wrong is more fun and interesting.

There's nothing that can be done until the Blue Code of Gay Silence is broken and shattered by some cops with both morals and testicles. A similar mentality exists in the military and it's wrong there as well, even more wrong I'd say because the military is very forgiving of genuine mistakes made under stress.

What's funny is when you hear stuff like I can't speak out "I got a family to support." Hmmmm, that's the same line a lot of drug dealers, thiefs and robbers use. Funny indeed.

[Major Robert Dump]

Hands down CR? He had them in his pockets, that's even worse.

You miss the point. In the article, the report from the officer who got assaulted said the kid "was in a fighting stance with fists raised"

So again, we have them lying. and yes, hands in pockets is bad, but its not like he had a chance to take them out. So in excusing the cops, the initial lie is overlooked completely because his hands were in his pockets perhaps. Oink

[KukriKhan]

So, it's the lie, false report/witness thingee.

I agree. Either we (the citizenry) agree with the report, or we don't. If we don't, then the law-enforcer gets sanctioned. If we do, then...

tech up.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Much of police work requires the guy to be a mostly independent operator, making judgments on behalf of the government/people, and taking what he thinks is appropriate action.

I wouldn't take that away. Instead: tech-up. I'd find better ways to monitor our public guardians, for review by their non-uniformed authorities. Individual policeman-mounted minicams/sound recorders, gps trackers, portable, easily-accessible criminal databases and law libraries for his reference. That kinda stuff.

When a bad one shows up, or a good one has a really bad day, the record will show his mistakes, as well as any aggravating circumstances.

I can't speak for other states or law enforcement entities but in the NYS Dept. of Corrections, State Police, Sheriffs this has been initiated and evolving for almost 20 years now.


There's nothing that can be done until the Blue Code of Gay Silence is broken and shattered by some cops with both morals and testicles.

Easier said than done when one is trying to change/suppress/redirect human nature itself. And that applies to all strata of the Law Enforcement community, from the judges, commissioners, politicians, right down to the grunts in the trenches. Coverups don't just happen because management wants to protect the cop. Many would gladly sacrifice any grunt if they could do so and save/preserve their own liabilties. What needs to be done is to convince the cops who perform their jobs in good faith that they are safe from retailiation (from peers & management) and it is in their best interests for reporting those that don't act in good faith, and then actually follow through on that promise. Anyone who has ever worked in law enforcement will probably tell you that the "brotherhood" is a natural result of and quite indicative of a feeling of "us against the world"; criminals on one side and management/civilians on the other. There aren't too many Serpico's out there, and falling on your sword doesn't pay the bills or feeds your family. Figuring out how to change this culture takes time, money, and the political fortitude *from those just as flawed as the rest of us humans* to fix it. So, who gets to watch the watchers and judge the judgers?

[Papewaio]

Anyone who has ever worked in law enforcement will probably tell you that the "brotherhood" is a natural result of and quite indicative of a feeling of "us against the world"; criminals on one side and management/civilians on the other. There aren't too many Serpico's out there, and falling on your sword doesn't pay the bills or feeds your family. Figuring out how to change this culture takes time, money, and the political fortitude *from those just as flawed as the rest of us humans* to fix it. So, who gets to watch the watchers and judge the judgers?

That brotherhood happens a lot in other government departments. Just watch what happens to whistle blowers. It also happens in any large organization (NGO's, Corporations etc), and more so where the organization is under pressure, understaffed (and has a hard time recruiting, as management will be loath to let go any head count), and has a lack of transparency and accountability.

One of the things that used to happen in the UK was that it wasn't local police that investigated police problems. It was police from another county. This doesn't address the code of silence. But it does remove one of the problems of mates having to investigate mates. It also removes management from the cycle where they may have vested interests in head count and empire building (having a bit of leverage on someone is excellent fodder for would be empire builders who delight in climbing the middle management ladder).

Make the system as a whole more transparent and accountable. Mind you this would mean that those in the upper echelons would have to be dealt with.

[InsaneApache]

Excellent and succinct points about how the Uk investigates police crime. There is also another layer that you may not be aware of. The Police Complaints Authority.

In fact they may have even transcended them.

[Major Robert Dump]

You're right, Tito, it exists on all levels of government, and Pape is right that it exists everywhere else, too. Anyone who has ever worked in any level of management for a company in which they started at the bottom and worked their way up probably saw their old chums turn cold to him/her once the job title changed. And then the peers in management may do or say things about the workers that is equally superficial and cold. On top of that, you have intra-company rivalries.

Not to sound pessimistic, but I don't think it will ever be fixed. The "tech up" idea is probably the best one so far, but even that is going to have its workarounds and flaws because its administered by humans.

I don't know about this whole "all cops are evil" mantra being chanted by some. I try to maintain a friendly, professional relationship with my local police. I'm not scared of them, but I also don't trust them unless it's one that I know very personally which, incidentally, means I'm part of the problem because in essence I'm getting preferential treatment from cops I grew up with or hung out with before they were cops. I've tried to be friends with cops, both new relationships initiated by them and relationships where I have known the guy all my life. It only works out if we never, ever discuss politics or police work. Not that we fight or anything, but eventually something is always said by the cop that just makes me not want to be around him anymore, I guess because they consider me one of the boys, I dunno. I'm sure I've told some of these stories at the .org before.

[Xiahou]

I try to maintain a friendly, professional relationship with my local police. I'm not scared of them, but I also don't trust them unless it's one that I know very personally which, incidentally, means I'm part of the problem because in essence I'm getting preferential treatment from cops I grew up with or hung out with before they were cops.Indeed. It never ceases to amaze me how a local cop will let someone off for a traffic ticket if the person pulled over can name drop. I know many people who've done it. Things like that seem innocent enough, but preferential treatment is preferential treatment and it shouldn't happen in our justice system whether it's a speeding ticket, a DUI, or a serious crime.

I think "tech up" is a good starting point, but just having police watching each other isn't good enough. Police need to expect that everything they do while on duty is being watched and possibly taped by the public and they need to act with accordingly. Even though I think some of those cop watch groups can be obnoxious, I absolutely support what they're doing.

[LittleGrizzly]

Britian has come up with a great way to see most crimes commited by police on urban streets.... i don't think it goes down to well with you lot having camera's everywhere though :tongue:

[Major Robert Dump]

we can't use CCTV because it would make our electricity bills too high.

[Hosakawa Tito]

A recent local case: Judge resigns, attorney pleads guilty in tampering case. (http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/585859.html)


“I would expect that, as a consequence of this plea, Ms. Adams may lose her license to practice law.”

Both the attorney & judge should lose their license to practice law, but this will be at the discretion of NYS Bar Association and State Politicians. The judge will get a mulligan and keep his law license, just like all the convicted & connected pols do like Spitzer, Hevesi, Crangle etal...


Make the system as a whole more transparent and accountable. Mind you this would mean that those in the upper echelons would have to be dealt with.

And that's the rub, politics, power, and human nature are a corrosive corruptible combination. Upper echelon also pretty much means self-regulating....

[Xiahou]

Just to chime in with some local corruption news of my own- you know it's got to be good when it makes it to the UK press (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5864483.ece).
LIKE many other 15-year-old schoolgirls, Hillary Transue was not quite as respectful as she might have been towards the teachers at her Pennsylvania school. Yet she was a clever, computer-savvy pupil who had good grades and had never been in serious trouble.

One day, for a joke, she published a spoof article on the MySpace social networking website, mocking the assistant principal at her high school in Wilkes-Barre. The teacher complained and, to the astonishment of her family, Transue was charged with harassment and hauled into juvenile court.

That was where the family’s surprise turned to horror. After studying the case for two minutes, Judge Mark Ciavarella sentenced Transue to three months in juvenile detention. She was led out of the court in handcuffs.

Two years later it is Ciavarella’s turn to go to jail and Transue is among several hundred former inmates of local juvenile detention centres who are suing for compensation after one of America’s most sinister judicial scandals of recent times. Basically, judges were sentencing children to juvenile detention in return for kickbacks from the detention center. This one seems like it keeps getting bigger and uglier by the day as the feds shine light on the dark underbelly of county government. :sweatdrop:

[Papewaio]

Excellent and succinct points about how the Uk investigates police crime. There is also another layer that you may not be aware of. The Police Complaints Authority.

In fact they may have even transcended them.

My uncle after being a super tanker captain became a policeman in Wales. And a cousin in the UK police force too. While my mum worked at Scotland Yard in the internal investigation unit as a secretary.

[Major Robert Dump]

Just to chime in with some local corruption news of my own- you know it's got to be good when it makes it to the UK press (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5864483.ece).Basically, judges were sentencing children to juvenile detention in return for kickbacks from the detention center. This one seems like it keeps getting bigger and uglier by the day as the feds shine light on the dark underbelly of county government. :sweatdrop:


Not that much different than private prisons spending hundreds of millions lobbying and donating to lawmakers for strict marijuana laws.

[Hosakawa Tito]

That brotherhood happens a lot in other government departments. Just watch what happens to whistle blowers. It also happens in any large organization (NGO's, Corporations etc), and more so where the organization is under pressure, understaffed (and has a hard time recruiting, as management will be loath to let go any head count), and has a lack of transparency and accountability.


There is a stigma attached to being a whistle blower aka snitch, and it applies to all groups and work environments from school children on up. Some of it is justified because sometimes the whistle blower/snitch has their own not so virtuous agenda in mind. Even those with the best intentions are going to be reluctant or soon discover the fact of this stigma. It is most extreme in a prison setting. Among the inmate population snitches are despised more than baby rapers, and in any serious disturbance or riot the first ones the rioters go after are the snitches.

Among law enforcement & military grunts, snitches are also not socially acceptable and are considered a tool of the darker side of management. In my department our internal investigative unit is called IG, Inspector General. Most of the investigators are also ex corrections officers and are about as popular as a dose of the clap. Been that way long before my time, and probably will continue to be long after I'm gone.

[Xiahou]

Not that much different than private prisons spending hundreds of millions lobbying and donating to lawmakers for strict marijuana laws.I understand your point, but it's wildly different. The judges were sentencing children to detention for minor offenses, or non-offenses in exchange for kickbacks under the table.

Lobbying legislators is the legally recognized method for influencing the law. Bribing judges is not. :no:

[Crazed Rabbit]

There is a stigma attached to being a whistle blower aka snitch, and it applies to all groups and work environments from school children on up. Some of it is justified because sometimes the whistle blower/snitch has their own not so virtuous agenda in mind. Even those with the best intentions are going to be reluctant or soon discover the fact of this stigma. It is most extreme in a prison setting. Among the inmate population snitches are despised more than baby rapers, and in any serious disturbance or riot the first ones the rioters go after are the snitches.

Among law enforcement & military grunts, snitches are also not socially acceptable and are considered a tool of the darker side of management. In my department our internal investigative unit is called IG, Inspector General. Most of the investigators are also ex corrections officers and are about as popular as a dose of the clap. Been that way long before my time, and probably will continue to be long after I'm gone.

Unlike other groups, however, the police enforce the law. They deform the very justice system when they cover up for each other.

It's also near the third anniversary of a man killed for making small-time bets with friends:

Sal Culosi (http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/display.php?id=36743)


Sal Culosi was shot and killed by a Fairfax County cop three years ago last Saturday.

He was about to be arrested for taking football bets, the quarry of a dubious sting operation that seemed timed to make a news splash ahead of the upcoming Super Bowl. (Why dubious? Well, the only major bettor was an undercover police officer, and the alleged bookie, Culosi, covered all the bets himself.)

Culosi had no criminal record and owned and operated an optometry practice. He was unarmed, not fully dressed, and standing in front of his house in Fair Lakes when a bullet from a SWAT team member’s pistol went through his heart.

County officials say the killing was an accident, and that Officer Deval Bullock unintentionally fired the .45-caliber kill shot. According to the county’s version of events, a car door grazed Bullock’s arm and caused his trigger finger to twitch.

No criminal charges were ever filed against Culosi’s killer. Veteran prosecutor Robert Horan, in explaining shortly after the shooting why he wouldn’t pursue an indictment against the officer, said Bullock was tired from working an organized deer hunt in the morning before he killed Culosi.

Why call out a SWAT team? So they can play dress up and pretend they're like real soldiers? Getting away with murder. :shame:

Also, this article by the former Police Chief of Seattl (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norm-stamper/police-brutality-deal-wit_b_173427.html)e helps explain why brutality occurs:

Disclosure: During my rookie days back in the sixties as a San Diego police officer I used excessive force, more than once. I remember most of the incidents, though I'm sure I've conveniently forgotten some. I'm ashamed, wish to hell I hadn't done it. But I did, and visceral memories of these incidents help shape an answer to the question of why certain cops engage in brutal behavior, and others don't.
...
So, how do we prevent this kind of behavior in the future?

Please don't say through (1) more thorough screening of law enforcement candidates, or (2) better training. They're both important, of course. Critical, in fact. But law enforcement, for the most part, doesn't pick bad apples. It makes them, and not through academy training.

Forty-three years ago I was an idealistic, vaguely liberal 21-year-old when the San Diego Police Department hired me. The last thing on my mind was taking to the streets to punish people. And lest there be any doubt about the department's policy, the police academy, even then, drove it home: excessive force was grounds for termination.

So, why did I abuse the very people I'd been hired to serve?

Not to get too psychological, I did it because the power of my position went straight to my head; because other cops I'd come to admire did it; and because I thought I could get away with it. Which I did--until a principled prosecutor slapped me upside the head and demanded to know whether the U.S. Constitution meant anything to me.

It comes down to this: real cops, those with a conscience, those who honor the law, must step up and take control of the cop culture.

Some others here have mentioned upgrading technology, which I also think is good. Ideally, cops would be on tape whenever they are working.

CR

[Whacker]

Several folks have mentioned increased surveillance through technical means of law enforcement. I couldn't agree more with this, nothing makes people thing things through more carefully than realizing they are being recorded.

However.........

I think the bigger problem by far is that even WHEN things ARE recorded, such as the numerous posts in this thread of law enforcement being generally out of control for no real reason, nothing has happened to majority of the individuals involved, barring an occasional "paid leave".

The bottom line is that this kind of crap isn't going to stop unless the behavior is cut off at the knees. Just like little children, they learn what they can and can't get away with, and will cheerfully do whatever they know they shouldn't because they know there will be no repercussions.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I think the bigger problem by far is that even WHEN things ARE recorded, such as the numerous posts in this thread of law enforcement being generally out of control for no real reason, nothing has happened to majority of the individuals involved, barring an occasional "paid leave".

The bottom line is that this kind of crap isn't going to stop unless the behavior is cut off at the knees. Just like little children, they learn what they can and can't get away with, and will cheerfully do whatever they know they shouldn't because they know there will be no repercussions.

Indeed.

Anyway, here's a video that proves a Chicago Cop arrested a sober man and lied about what happened on his report:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1470350,CST-NWS-duivideo11.article

Apparently they are 'considering' filing charges against the cop.

CR

[Lord Winter]

In all fairness though, don't the cops deserve the benfit of the doubt in some cases?

[Crazed Rabbit]

We can't give the benefit of the doubt to a group of people who have and will continue to lie to protect themselves and their compatriots. They only tell the truth when it is convenient for them.

They have squandered and abused the benefit the public has given them, and as such do not deserve it.

CR

[Major Robert Dump]

In all fairness though, don't the cops deserve the benfit of the doubt in some cases?


Um, no, because of that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing we pride ourselves on. Police Officers carry a huge authority and responsibility, a very tough job. But the mere fact that one has a badge means ones word is the gospel, 100% truth, and when it turns out an officer has blatantly lied to protect himself or to punish an innocent then that officer has perverted justice, the law and the constitution and should not only be fired, but prosecuted as well.

[Lord Winter]

No ones denying that there are bad cops, and that they should be fired. I understand CR's arguement about the stigma of whistleblowing, but I still think you can take many isolated examples and blow them out of proportion. For example the story that first started this thread, could the officer have handled it better, yes. That does not make him an evil saddistic beign though.

[Major Robert Dump]

I disagree.

While I'm not justifying this either, at least I can understand when a cop slaps around someone they just had to chase through a pitbull-infested trailer park or in a 100mph car chase through 2 counties or pulled drunk out of a car with 2 babies inside.

But this guy was acting as a jailer. In a jail. Whether he is a power freak, was having a really bad day, or was hung over from the night before -- that doesn't matter. Humans are humans, and if you allow them to physically abuse people then that will naturally become an outlet of their frustrations. Unless that man in the first video had just finished some highly intense situation that the female was a part of I cannot see how anyone could not view this as simple abuse of power.

On the same note, had she done that shoe-kick thing in Iraq she might get 3 years :laugh4:

[Husar]

That does not make him an evil saddistic beign though.

Yes it does, he's beating a restrained teenage girl!

[Mooks]

I disagree.

While I'm not justifying this either, at least I can understand when a cop slaps around someone they just had to chase through a pitbull-infested trailer park or in a 100mph car chase through 2 counties or pulled drunk out of a car with 2 babies inside.


This reminds me of some advice of a guy I once knew, not really a friend but I knew him well. He told me in a serios tone "If you run away from the police, do not get caught. Because that cop will beat the living **** out of you". He is in prison now, quite a lot of contact with the police; probaly too much of it.

[LittleGrizzly]

In all fairness though, don't the cops deserve the benfit of the doubt in some cases?

No, the citizen deserves the benefit of the doubt until a police officer can prove otherwise!

[Crazed Rabbit]

Don't be an immigrant storeowner in Phildelphia, lest you run awful of the organized crime gangs (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20090320_DRUG_RAIDS_GONE_BAD.html?page=1&c=y)there:

Drug raids gone bad
Shopkeepers say plainclothes cops barged in, looted stores & stole cash

By WENDY RUDERMAN & BARBARA LAKER
Philadelphia Daily News

rudermw@phillynews.com 215-854-2860

ON A SWELTERING July afternoon in 2007, Officer Jeffrey Cujdik and his narcotics squad members raided an Olney tobacco shop.

Then, with guns drawn, they did something bizarre: They smashed two surveillance cameras with a metal rod, said store owners David and Eunice Nam.

The five plainclothes officers yanked camera wires from the ceiling. They forced the slight, frail Korean couple to the vinyl floor and cuffed them with plastic wrist ties.

"I so scared," said Eunice Nam, 56. "We were on floor. Handcuffs on me. I so, so scared, I wet my pants."

The officers rifled through drawers, dumped cigarette cartons on the floor and took cash from the registers. Then they hauled the Nams to jail.

The Nams were arrested for selling tiny ziplock bags that police consider drug paraphernalia, but which the couple described as tobacco pouches.

When they later unlocked their store, the Nams allege, they discovered that a case of lighter fluid and handfuls of Zippo lighters were missing. The police said they seized $2,573 in the raid. The Nams say they actually had between $3,800 and $4,000 in the store.

The Nams' story is strikingly similar to those told by other mom-and-pop store owners, from Dominicans in Hunting Park to Jordanians in South Philadelphia.

The Daily News interviewed seven store owners and an attorney representing another. Independently, they told similar stories: Cujdik and fellow officers destroyed or cut the wires to surveillance cameras. Some store owners said they watched as officers took food and slurped energy drinks. Other store owners said cigarette cartons, batteries, cell phones and candy bars were missing after raids.

This isn't the first time Cujdik has made the news (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20090223_Cop_added_insult_to_injury__she_says.html):


OFFICER JEFFREY Cujdik was the first cop to burst through the front door, gun drawn.

Lady Gonzalez froze. Terror gripped her five young children as Cujdik and eight other narcotics cops stormed the Kensington home.

" 'Where are the guns?! Where are the drugs!' " Cujdik shouted during the December 2007 raid, Gonzalez said. "I didn't know what they were talking about."

Then things got worse. Gonzalez said that one of the cops - not Cujdik - pulled up her shirt and bra and fondled her breasts.

The raid was prompted by a drug buy at the house three days earlier, according to a search warrant.

A police informant bought a packet of cocaine from Gonzalez's husband, Albert Nunez, on their front porch while Officer Robert McDonnell watched, according to the warrant.

But that informant, Ventura Martinez, now says that the search warrant was based on a lie: He never bought drugs from Nunez.

Anyone want to bet on the punishment? It's 10-1 odds they get no punishment.

CR

[KukriKhan]

It's been a whole heckova lotta fun reading the continuing saga of police malfeasance and criminal activity.

As to punishments handed out to law enforcers, I'd like to point out that prevailing (US) law puts extra sanctions and provisions on officers under any kind of inquiry or interrogation.

They have the same Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination as we other citizens do. Additionally, they fall under laws known as "Garrity" and "Lybarger" provisions, as well as O.North v US. Simply put: if the person's job demands that they answer questions or be terminated from employment for failing to follow an order (to answer/testify), then any information gleaned during such questioning CANNOT be used in any other proceeding, like a criminal trial.

So, for example, Colonel North, being an active-duty Marine, was compelled to testify to Congress in the Iran-Contra hearings, but that testimony could not be used against him in any criminal proceeding.

Many Internal Affairs investigators use a form similar to this:


CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTION STATEMENT
Garrity v. New Jersey, 385 US 493 (1976)
Spevack v Klein, 385 US 551 (1956),

On ____/_____/____ at ______hrs, at _________________I, ________________________
(Location) (Officers Name)
was ordered to submit this report (give this statement) by _____________________________.
(Name and rank)

I submit this report (give this statement) at his order as a condition of my employment. In view of possible job forfeiture, I have no alternative but to abide by this order.

It is my belief and understanding that the department requires this report (statement) solely and exclusively for internal purposes and will not release it to any other agency. It is my further belief that this report (statement) will not and can not be used against me in any subsequent proceedings; I authorize release of this report to my attorney or designated representative.

I retain my right to amend or change this statement upon reflection to correct any unintended mistake without subjecting myself to a charge of untruthfulness.

For any and all other purposes, I hereby reserve my CONSTITUTIONAL right to remain silent under the FIFTH and FOURTEENTH AMMENDMENTS to the UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION and any other rights PRESCRIBED by law. Further, I rely specifically upon the protection afforded me under the doctrines set forth in Garrity v. New Jersey, 385 US 493 (1976), and Spevack v Klein, 385 US 551 (1956), should this report (statement) be used for any other purpose of any kind whatsoever.


___________________________________________
(Officers Signature)

to question officers.

So, if we decide we want more unencumbered accountability for police/military wrong-doing, we're gonna have to rewrite law, and re-think the role and rights of the guys we pick to protect us.

[Papewaio]

So go to confession and the sin is resolved. Nice.

And as for the military. Combine the you can't get charged because you were ordered to confess or you lose your job. With if you resign you can't get charged with a war crime. :wall:

[Crazed Rabbit]

NYPD cops beat a man restrained on the ground with a metal baton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frL6rRbGAdw).

Cops from Peoria, Illinois, torture a man who gave himself up after a car chase (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf9qKYa2pGY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcarlosmiller.com%2F&feature=player_embedded). It was so blatant and violent that some cops were actually charged with crimes.


So go to confession and the sin is resolved. Nice.

Isn't it though? They shouldn't have such protection.

CR

[Crazed Rabbit]

Of course what happens when all this criminal action is covered up and police officers get away with this is that people no longer respect the police.

And these sort of demonstrations happen:
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/306703.html

In Oakland a criminal killed three cops and injured another before being killed. And because of the actions of the police department, there are people supporting what he did, in a way.

CR

[Major Robert Dump]

Guy gets ticket for not having a front license plate, sees cop off duty later with no front license plate and cop denies being a cop, sees cops at police station where several of the vehicles don't have fron license plates:

http://www.break.com/index/police-double-standards.html


You know, a posting by a fellow taverner in another thread who thinks its a giant media conspiracy against cops has rekindled my gusto to dog up some of the older stories that were posted in the thread that I believe was started when the off-duty air force guy was shot.

So far, I'm not having much luck as the examples I am trying to get from Oklahoma City are not showing up in the archives of the states only real online news source, The Daily Oklahoman, because it appears they don't archive online that far back. Anyway, looks like we are running out of recent stuff (give it a few days, right?) so I'll keep looking.

In the meantime, heres the one that started it all the first time:
Deputy pulls over car after short chase and crash, the drunk illegal immigrant driver flees, the passenger -- an iraqi war vet -- is on the ground trying to talk his way out of having a gun pointed at him. Note the cops dash cam would not have recorded this, and the cops initial report was complete BS but taken as the word of God (even though the wounded vet and eyewitnesses denied what the cop said was true) and was recanted and prosecuted only when the video shot by a bystander was aired.


cop: "get up, get up" BANG BANG (victim screams) shut the **** up

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8027854162700568157&q=ktla

[KukriKhan]

So backroom consensus is: Police = teh bad.

This pdf (http://www.albany.edu/sourcebook/pdf/t1432003.pdf) survey of US police departments as part of city/county budgets works out to about $200 per resident, per year for police services.

Should we do away with police, since they are so bad? Take back that money? Hire rent-a-cops instead?

[LittleGrizzly]

Should we do away with police, since they are so bad? Take back that money? Hire rent-a-cops instead?

I don't think all police should be done away with... quite happily remove those street crawlers whose only job appears to be to annoy ordinary civilians over minor quibbles.

Im happy to pay for the cops that catch murderers, paedophiles, bank robbers or similar big time thieves....

Of course this has to be combined with things like ending the wasteful war on drugs, could get rid of a decent portion of the police force right there...

Some of the money wasted on this could be spent on reforming those already down the wrong path or ensuring they never take thier first steps onto the wrong path...

[Major Robert Dump]

Heres a story of the trial for the Chino cop:
http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_6145556

And while I don't have an immediate link, I have found copy/pasted articles in other forums with identical stories saying that the deputy was acquitted of all charges. So a "stress" defense worked, although why a police officer would be telling a prone man to get up in the first place -- which they don't do unless you are restrained or the scene is contained -- is beyond me. Still seems like the only reason he told him to get up was so he could shoot him. I mean, who ya gonna believe, a bunch of immigrants who probably won't even talk to cops, or good ole boy Webb?



Here's the New Years shooting in the BART station of the unarmed man restrained and face down. Apparently he was "struggling" which people tend to do with two knees in their back and one on their neck, but you decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKKQ-gzc_Yw&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNmcaew0qEU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcarlosmiller.com%2F2009%2F01%2F06%2Fbart-police-shoot-unarmed-man-caught-on-citizen-video%2F&feature=player_embedded

This is likely the catalyst for the anti-police demonstration that CR posted above.

Dash cam footage of a football player being pulled over for stopping at a redlight with his flashers on, then going on when waved through by the only car around, so he could get to the hospital to see his dying mother-in-law whose cancer just crashed. I would almost say this cop is one of the good ones, because a lot of them would have tasered/peppered the woman and aunt for fleeing the scene and going into the hospital, but I won't go that far. Watch the whole video, the end with the nurses and the other cop is hilarious

http://www.khou.com/video/index.html?nvid=345703

This actually happens all the time around here, but it's local news and gets lost in the archives. I generally believe if you are rushing to the hospital for whatever reason you should call 911 and tell the cops and ask not to be messed with or to be escorted, but local protocol actually says the cops are not supposed to escort you and are supposed to have EMS show up and transport you so you can feed the municipal tax machine some more. In the last year, we've had one man detained and arrested while his son siezured in the car of the hospital parking lot, and another pulled over 6 blocks from the hospital and forced to wait on an ambulance for his passenger, and thats just in this suburb of OKC, and we have arguably the most professional police force in the metro, although our city council did just pass an anti-littering ordinance that makes the accused prove they didn't do it rather than place the burden of proof on the police.


Trooper (with 8 complaints in his pocket already) tickets man for driving in break down lane while wife is in labor, even after other troopers permitted it, and doubts her labor claims and wants to see her belly. Public outrage. State magistrate drops ticket. Troopers reinstate ticket. Public outrage. Troopers drop ticket. LOL In the cops defense, I do know the pregnant wife excuse is used often amongst people in a hurry, which is where the escort them or get an ambulance rule comes into play. Again, I think escorting is the more viable option.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/02/state_police_dr.html


DOC officer stabs girlfriend, flees, crashes into prison van, killing another DOC officer:

http://www.policelink.com/news/articles/100264-on-duty-doc-officer-killed-in-crash-by-off-duty-doc-officer-fleeing-stabbing

Drunk off duty cops get into wreck with cop in uniform who is driving personal vehicle. one drunk cop pulls gun, uniform cop pulls gun too, drunk cops arrested. As of now, only open container charges are filed. Anyone want to bet he wont get any sort of felonious pointing a weapon charge? Anyone want to bet what would have tranaspired had he not gotten into an accident with another cop, but with you or me?

http://www.policelink.com/news/articles/100612-deputy-pulls-gun-on-city-police-officer-following-crash

[Major Robert Dump]

So backroom consensus is: Police = teh bad.

This pdf (http://www.albany.edu/sourcebook/pdf/t1432003.pdf) survey of US police departments as part of city/county budgets works out to about $200 per resident, per year for police services.

Should we do away with police, since they are so bad? Take back that money? Hire rent-a-cops instead?

Nah, I don't think the police are bad, but they are certainly open to scrutiny like everyone else, and should be held accountable like everyone else, and that is done with information, education and transparency, not the ole boy system and coverups, not by blowing off criticism as a media/lefty conspiracy against authority.

If you ignore something, it only gets worse. In fact, Policelink.com recently ran a story on that showed cameras were more likely to protect officers careers and bodies than the likelihood that they would ruin the officer for misconduct etc. Scrutiny and standards are about protecting both sides, and no matter how many decent people I know and love who work in law enforcement I will never, ever use that as a reason to withhold criticism or disgust in situations involving cops acting inappropriately.

Far too often, people hide behind their choice of being a public servant -- whatever the hell that means anymore, as I just heard the Kennedys referred to as a family of servants -- as a means to be treated differently. It shouldn't work that way, people see right through it, although in most cases they are unable to stop it. So it builds and builds. Then you get knee jerkers having pro-cop killer rallies in Oakland and voters calling for the heads of Congress for misconduct only to replace them with clones of a different party.

[Husar]

You know, a posting by a fellow taverner in another thread who thinks its a giant media conspiracy against cops has rekindled my gusto to dog up some of the older stories that were posted in the thread that I believe was started when the off-duty air force guy was shot.

Well, you know, I'm not excusing the cop, but calling a guy a hero just because he can put screws onto a plane is media bias to me. And if every American does it, it's public bias or whatever.

[Major Robert Dump]

Well, you know, I'm not excusing the cop, but calling a guy a hero just because he can put screws onto a plane is media bias to me. And if every American does it, it's public bias or whatever.


He was an military police officer on leave from Iraq, he was not a mechanic as far as I know. I don't know what he did or where he went, but yeah the "hero" moniker is tossed around all too often and most soldiers will deny the label, even the ones who were in harms way.

As an MP, he should have known better to let himself be put into a situation like that, which begs the question: whats safer, punching the driver going 100 mph and trying to commandeer the car, or laying on the ground unarmed with a cop standing behind you? I guess we know the answer now.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Some more recent stories:
In Michigan, a reporter is charged with enough crimes to put her away for 20 years (http://www.metrotimes.com/news/story.asp?id=13812) because she took pictures of a crime scene;
Bukowski is accused of crossing a police barrier to take photos and then resisting State Police troopers after they ordered her to move. Bukowski claims to have put up no resistance, saying she never had the chance. She describes immediately being set upon by hostile officers who roughly grabbed her and took her camera, erasing photos she'd taken of the scene.

"They assaulted me, as far as I'm concerned," says Bukowski.

At the February hearing, Hathaway smacked down Assistant Wayne County Prosecutor Thomas Trzcinski, who attempted to justify the police action — which could be interpreted as the illegal destruction of evidence — by saying it was an attempt to protect families of the deceased from enduring the emotional trauma of seeing grisly pictures of dead loved ones in the paper. Aside from the fact that the bodies were covered with tarps, Hathaway correctly pointed out that its not the duty of the police to act as censors. There is, after all, something called the First Amendment.

Hathaway also expressed the desire to see the matter put to rest before going to trial.

But at last week's hearing, the judge — to News Hits, at least — seemed to have jumped the fence, adopting a tone that seemed openly hostile toward Bukowski. At one point he talked about her crossing the barrier of yellow tape — still only an allegation at this point, mind you — motivated only by the desire to get sensationalized photos.

"I'm an investigative reporter," Bukowski told News Hits afterward. "I was documenting the scene." She also says she was at least 70 feet from any body.

Hathaway also made a crack about Bukowski — who contends that she's being targeted for prosecution because of previous work that was critical of both police and the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office — having an inflated opinion of her own celebrity.

In New York State, police kill two dogs, (http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/623439.html) just for the heck of it, on a drug raid that produced no drugs and no arrests.

A South Buffalo family wants answers after police shot and killed two of their dogs during a raid Saturday, leaving blood puddled on a living-room carpet and speckled on the wall.

Police, who were looking for a drug suspect and narcotics, left the Indian Church Road home without finding any evidence or arresting anyone, according to residents of the house.

The incident has left the family distraught and angry over the loss of the dogs, Essy and Moosey.

“It was just the most traumatizing, horrible thing,” said Rita M. Patterson, 27, who lives in the house with her 68-year-old father, Daniel J. Patterson.
...
Before she knew what was happening, police wearing masks and helmets and carrying automatic weapons had broken through the door. They tied her hands with a zip tie and put her on the floor.

Her father pleaded with police not to shoot the dogs, but they wouldn’t allow him to grab the dogs and put them in another room, Patterson said.

One of the officers started firing a shotgun at the two dogs, one a pit bull and the other a pit bull-boxer mix.

One of the dogs was shot three times: once in the throat, once in the back and the last time in the leg while trying to run away, Rita Patterson said.

The other dog was cowering behind a table. Neither was a threat to the police, the residents said.

The police had a warrant for the home, but it named no suspects. It said only that investigators were looking for a white male and Hydrocodone. Information that led to the warrant, according to the warrant itself, came partly from an informant, Rita Patterson said.

In Chicago, a man set up and jailed for six months (http://www.wbbm780.com/pages/3717513.php?contentType=4&contentId=3406204) before being released without charge is suing:

This suit claims Plewa and other officers entered Hernandez’s home on April 16, 2008 when he was not home. The officers had previously secured a warrant to search the home by falsely representing that they had obtained facts from an anonymous “confidential source.”

The officers claimed they had recovered drugs and drug paraphernalia as well as $1,000 in cash, the suit said.

When Hernandez learned officers had been inside his home, he voluntarily went to the police station and was interrogated by officers. When officers told him to give them guns or the names of drug dealers, Hernandez did not do so and was arrested.

Hernandez was sent to the Cook County Jail where he remained from April until October 2008 until charges were dropped in his favor – a total of six months. During his six-month incarceration, Hernandez missed the birth of a child and lost his jobs, the suit said.

The suit alleges Hernandez’s constitutional rights were violated and that his prosecution was malicious and caused emotional distress.

The suit also accuses the city of Chicago of allowing the “confidential informant” process to lead to arrests without probable cause and to pursue wrongful convictions through “profoundly flawed investigations.”

The suit seeks an unspecified amount of money, as well as attorneys' fees.

It's not just brutality, but a pervasive violation of rights and justice.

CR

[Major Robert Dump]

I gotta tell ya man, no-knock warrants and warrants based soley on confidential sources are the bane of the war on drugs. It gets civilians and cops killed, and it violates peoples rights to know their accuser. To hell with protecting informants identities, as the vast majority of informants are criminals themselves and only informing to get preferential treatment, and I would be willing to bet a lot of the infromation is based on vendettas or just completely made up because someone needs some evidence to back up their gut feeling.

This crap with the dogs happens all the time. This crap with warrants being served on secret information, your city spending a few grand gearing up a dozen police in war gear and busting into your home, only to find a small amount of drugs -- or better yet, nothing at all -- and then all the red tape you gotta go through to get your house repairs paid for by the cops....its disgusting. If the police in my town find no drugs but do find paraphanelia, they will scrape the insides of the instruments until they can get a gram of resin, at which point they now have a possession charge. Yay. Talk about fruits of their labor, the streets are safer now.

[Major Robert Dump]

Here's a real beauty.

Unarmed woman kneeling with child killed by SWAT member because, he says, he thought people were shooting at him from inside the bedroom. So who was shooting? Other cops, shooting the dogs:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/07/experts_say_woman_was_on_knees.html

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/518/lima_ohio_swat_team_kills_young_mother

And, he's exonerated of all wrongdoing:
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/08/lima_jury_reaches_verdict_in_o.html

not so much as a misdemeanor negligent assault conviction.


This sort of reminds me of the guy in NYC, 10 years ago, shot 41 times. Plainclothes cops, who witnesses said did not identify themselves, chased the man to his home. As he reached for his wallet, one cop opened fire. Another cop, who was such a fat pig he couldn't keep his balance, fell backwards, which prompted the other cops to think he had been shot. Hail of bullets ensues. All officers acquitted. The Street Crime unit was disbanded in 2001 because of "budget issues" but we all really know why it was disbanded: because it had a systematic pattern of questionable shootings and issues of abuse, many of which involved officers not identifying themselves before they escalated the situation, and some of which involved misconduct using their plainclothes as a coverup. Good riddance Gestapo.

I mean, dude was shot in the bottom of the foot even.
http://www.ny1.com/content/news_beats/law_enforcement/93363/amadou-diallo-remembered-on-10th-anniversary-of-his-death/Default.aspx


Hey, speaking of waving a gun around and not identifying yourself (according to witnesses, at least) but more importantly, shooting an unarmed, fleeing man for what amounted to a misdemeanor:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/may2007/nypd-m24.shtml

[Papewaio]

So backroom consensus is: Police = teh bad.

This pdf (http://www.albany.edu/sourcebook/pdf/t1432003.pdf) survey of US police departments as part of city/county budgets works out to about $200 per resident, per year for police services.

Should we do away with police, since they are so bad? Take back that money? Hire rent-a-cops instead?

Go the free market way and have healthy competition, with transparency and accountability and bonuses. Not saying that their should be private police forces, but maybe a decentralisation for some and some sort of competitive vibe (best county gets a performance based pay bonus) etc. Mind you moment you go down KPI incentives the system gets worked. So need to make a system that brings out the best in people not awards a dodgy version of brotherhood.

Heck I would love to see the top ten police get million dollar bonuses as long as all the corrupt ones were handled.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Go the free market way and have healthy competition, with transparency and accountability and bonuses. Meh. Been there, done that. Hire-a-cops, private armies - that's got a name, feudalism.


As for police in general, I've been on the receiving end of both the best and the worst of the police. Some have been very kind, going above and beyond the call of duty for me. I've also stared at the wrong end of the barrel of guns wielded by trigger-happy little fascists in uniform. And I do am pretty much a law-abiding citizen. Thank God I was white or I might not have been around anymore to post here. :shame:

[Major Robert Dump]

Go the free market way and have healthy competition, with transparency and accountability and bonuses. Not saying that their should be private police forces, but maybe a decentralisation for some and some sort of competitive vibe (best county gets a performance based pay bonus) etc. Mind you moment you go down KPI incentives the system gets worked. So need to make a system that brings out the best in people not awards a dodgy version of brotherhood.

Heck I would love to see the top ten police get million dollar bonuses as long as all the corrupt ones were handled.

Honestly I don't know how a "top cop" system would work without it being based on quotas and inherently causing cops to trump up charges and try to get even more arrests for things which don't need to end in arrests.

Many cities and counties have a traffic citation quota system than is enacted either constantly or when the local budget needs more money. Most of the cops I know hate the quotas, and it enrages the public. Personally, I don't have a problem with it as it keeps the roads a little safer, but when the city does enact a quota for budget reasons the police department warns the local papers, who in turn warn the people, and towards the end of the month when the quota deadline hits people darn well better mind themselves on the road. So one could argue that that does, or does not work.

Convictions in general, however, from the perspective of drug task forces seeking budgets or district attorneys seeking re-election, is something that is paramount in touting for justifying ones own existence. Theres no shortage of examples of American DAs and sheriffs going to ridiculous extremes to prove their worth come election time, whether it be the Duke Lacrosse team, Phelps smoking pot, busting poker games etc. They need convictions to prove their worth.

What's even more scary is the manner by which the Oklahoma Drug Tasks Forces report their records to the state legislature to pander for funds. First, until 2 years ago, they never distinguished between felony arrests/convictions and misdemeanor arrests/convictions until our US Senator Tom Coburn called them on it. Turns out the Forces were netting far more misdemeanor and insignificant arrests than felonies.

Second, the reporting still does not distinguish between number or people arrested/convicted vs the number of individual charges. I'll give you an example:

Man has marijuana in his house. For whatever reason, he gets raided. Police find marijuana. One would think possession charge, right? In addition to possession, he can also be charged with: 1-a felony if he has a legal firearm in the closet, possession of firearm while in commission of a crime; 2-a misdemeanor of possession of marijuana without a tax stamp, although that one is a catch-22 and you can't legally apply for a tax stamp for illegal marijuana; 3-a felony of possession of marijuana while within 1000 feet of a school, church or park, a charge you will get no matter where you are in town because it has been zoned to include crosswalks, bus stops, church auxillary building that aren't even labeled, and public land thats not really a park but people use for jogging, ball, etc; 4-a misdemeanor of possession of marijuana with intent to distribute, if you have more than an ounce (despite being like everything else, the more you buy the cheaper it is) or if you have sandwich bags in your house anywhere, can be bumped up to a felony if within 1000 feet of a school, church or park, see number 4; 5-a misdemeanor of possession with a child present, if there is a child present anywhere on the property, to include the children of other tenants in the apartment/duplex/condo complex. And my personal favorite, 6, a misdemeanor maintaining a dwelling where drugs are kept or sold, which in basic english means you own a house and have drugs, and is nothing more than a pre-requisite charge to justify the cops to confiscate everything you own so they can pad their budget (5-10% of Cleveland County Sheriffs budget comes from seized personal property sales) on the grounds that your entire estate was purchased with drug money. Also, if you have more than 200 dollars in cash on one individual in the house and got the distribution charge, you can be charged with 7 a misdemeanor of possession of drug proceeds.

So we have 1 guy, in a condo he owns, in possession, committing one crime really, but he is charged with a possible 8, redundantly stacking 7 on top of the possession charge. Drug task force reports to legislature this as 8 charges brought, 8 convictions gained, but does not mention that they all came from the same unlucky individual. Oh, and his life is ruined, as is the life of his family, he is now a felon and a convict, will go to prison and be raped, will come out of prison and be unable to find work and will become one of those people like the ones at the Oakland rally. Now that's progress.

That is where top cop competitions get us. They don't want to win the drug war, because then they won't have jobs and there will be no one to fill the prisons with.

Now, if we had a competition where the cop who shot the least unarmed people got a prize, I would go all in.

[KukriKhan]

Just as an aside, I offered a personal anecdote:

Once upon a time, in a previous life, I was a Military Policeman. One of my assignments was to the now-deactivated Presidio of San Francisco, smack dab in the city of San Francisco, abutting the Golden Gate Bridge, containing part of the Port of SF, a National Cemetery, and part of a Cal State highway.

We typically had five 2-man patrols on duty. We'd often get "hot-pusuit" assistance requests from SFPD. Some speeding motorist, or wanted criminal would be chased by: SFPD, MP vehicles, CHP (Highway Patrol/State Police) officers, Border Patrol guys, US Customs Police, Park Police jeeps, and DEA enforcers.

It was not unusual to see a single civilian car pulled over, surrounded by 7-8 police vehicles, all painted differently, with lights flashing, and the various cops, in different uniforms, trying to untangle whose bust it was, and who had jurisdiction.

We (MPs) usually lost those arguments, unless the 'perp' was an active-duty Army guy, stationed at Presidio, driving a vehicle registered on-post.

Very Keystone-Coppish looking, now that I look back. :)

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Was it better when we had beat cops and an officer was personally responsible for things on his beat being quiet?

In short, do we want police enforcing laws or establishing order? The former is far more impartial, butnecessarily imperfect because we would need a catastrophic percentage of our workforce in police uniforms to enforce all of the laws we have on our books in our heavily legalistic Western nations. If we ask them to impose order, however, we must accept that the methodology used will involved force and that the police involved will never/cannot be completely accountable for that force as would be a private citizen. By the way, historically, police have had much more success enforcing order than they have laws.

[Papewaio]

Meh. Been there, done that. Hire-a-cops, private armies - that's got a name, feudalism.


As for police in general, I've been on the receiving end of both the best and the worst of the police. Some have been very kind, going above and beyond the call of duty for me. I've also stared at the wrong end of the barrel of guns wielded by trigger-happy little fascists in uniform. And I do am pretty much a law-abiding citizen. Thank God I was white or I might not have been around anymore to post here. :shame:

Not privately owned. Civic cops who can get paid far more then now. What is good for private industry and large government should be applied to police. That includes the accountability and transparency, but it also should include paying them more as professionals if they are performing well.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Not privately owned. Civic cops who can get paid far more then now. What is good for private industry and large government should be applied to police. That includes the accountability and transparency, but it also should include paying them more as professionals if they are performing well.

I disagree. Such a course will, as MRD noted, enshrine the target system and the drive for personal greed. Since it is usually politicians that set the targets, you will get short term, populist targets that policemen simply implement mindlessly for money, rather than the public good.

What's needed is a return to the concept of public service and the recognition by the public of the status that service should have. Service for the greater good of society is what being a policeman used to be all about, and they would be recognised for that service, not by sordid bonus payments, but by a grateful neighbourhood.

When everything is about money and individual aggrandisement, one will always end up with self-serving cliques. Therein lies the tragedy of our modern world.

[Husar]

Well said Banquo, I completely agree. :2thumbsup:

[Papewaio]

That is fair and well when the idea of service given had reciprocal benefits such as pension, food, housing, medical care, respect etc

Now in the modern capitalist societies were all users pay even those those in service (civic, police, firemen, nursing, army etc) have to pay out of their pocket for it. Over time a lot of those expected reciprocating services are dropped for the user pays system (pay your own meals, accommodation, training, etc as per private enterprise). Lets face it a plaque and a medal does not a lifestyle make. And there is nothing honourable about not being able to provide for ones own family.

Also as we now live in nation states and not tribal neighbourhoods it is a bit late to hope that happy neighbours will look after you for service to the nation. As the nations are set up for capitalists, I don't think that it is fair that doing the right thing should get penalised on societies score card of money, while those whose service is to themselves in business get a better deal.

Please also not that it has to rest on a system that is transparent and accountable. And that I have already stated the problem with KPIs is that the results will be made to cater for them and as such we have to have a system that caters for human fallibility (obviously the mechanism for accountability has to be thorough).

[Louis VI the Fat]

Australia, the UK, the USA? Your police brutality is as nothing compared to the depths of depravity consistently reached by the French police.

For those interested, Amnesty International published an utterly damning report (http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/france-police-above-law-20090402) yesterday.

The most devastating find is the policy of charging victims of police violence with criminal offences if they dare to file a complain afterwards.

Newspapers are full of stories of people being fined thousands of euros for attacking police battons with their forehead. :furious3:

Unlawful killings, beatings, racial abuse and excessive use of force by law enforcement officials are prohibited under international law in all circumstances. Yet in France, reports of such human rights violations are rarely investigated effectively and those responsible seldom brought to justice, Amnesty International said in a new report published today.

Amnesty International’s report Public Outrage: police officers above the law in France, condemns the fact that allegations of police ill-treatment, racial abuse and excessive use of force continue while procedures for investigating such allegations are still failing to live up to the standards required by international law. The organization notes the increasing trend for people who are the victims of or witnesses to ill-treatment by law enforcement officials find themselves charged with the criminal offences of insulting or assaulting a police officer (“outrage” and “rebellion”).

The numerous cases that Amnesty International has researched in the course of preparing this report show that although the victims of ill-treatment and other human rights violations include men and women of all age groups, the vast majority of complaints concern French citizens from ethnic minorities or foreign nationals.

[InsaneApache]

I was stopped just outside Metz a couple of years back by Frances finest. A few miles earlier I'd seen a motorbike gendarme on the other carriageway run to his bike and get on his radio when he'd clocked my plates.

Aye, aye I thought, a bit of the non-entente cordial about to descend on moi. Sure enough a few miles further on I spied the flashing blue lights in my rear view mirror. I defy anyone not to glance down at your speedo when you see the coppers coming up fast behind you. :yes:

Anyroad, there were four of them on bikes. One came up alongside and stood up on his bike and looked inside the van. A few seconds later another came alongside and flagged me down. By now I had two at the front and the other two were following along the rear. They gesticulated for me to follow them and took me to a layby.

Now in the UK I've been stopped a few times and the first thing you do is get out of your vehicle. Not in France matey boy! As I started to get out all four of them started shouting "Stay where you are!" and reached down to ther holsters. Now you have to understand that we in the UK are just not used to seeing blokes tooled up, never mind coppers. I froze and put my hands back on the wheel, you see I've seen CSI and I know how it works. :sweatdrop:

To cut a long story short, they searched me and the van on the pretence of a customs check. (yeah right) They asked me if I was carrying anything, I said I was, two bottles of Chianti I'd picked up in Perugia. They were distinctly unimpressed.

After about twenty minutes, during which they also checked my passport on their mobile phone, they let me go, clearly disapointed. I resumed my journey but about ten miles further on I started shaking. I'd never come close to having a gun pulled on me and it was a tad unnerving.

At least they didn't hit me on the back of my head with their handcuffs wrapped aroung thier fist, ala knuckledusters, like the British cops used to do to unruly teenagers back in the 70s. Life's full of little tender mercies.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Last time my bicycle was stolen, I went to the police. I had borrowed a bike to get to the station.

'Good afternoon. My bicycle was stolen earlier today and..'
'I see you arrived here on bicycle. How did you get it?'
'My friend was so kind to lend me hers. Anyway, my bike was stolen where I work, which is at...'
'Where did you get your bike?'
'Huh?'
'Your bike! I am quite sure you stole it. Begone or I'll put you in custody while I check the origin of your bicycle.'

Louis leaves, part confused, part seething with rage. ~:confused: :furious3:

Cop shouts 'Hah! Glad to see you run with your tail between your legs! Proves I was right, doesn't it!?'


*thank God I am white :shame:*


they searched me and the van on the pretence of a customs check.Pretence indeed. They searched you because you are British. On the scale of suspect foreigners, that is still alright. For a fun time with French coppers, try, say, a Bulgarian license plate. Or put on a bullet-proof vest and disguise yourself as an Arab or a Black. :skull:

Welcome to Latinistan, where 'frustrated little men with shiny uniforms', of some sort or another, forever manage to make people's lifes miserable. Oh well, all peoples get the cops they deserve. The UK has unarmed bobbies. The US trigger-happy pigs. France little fascists with flashy uniforms.

[InsaneApache]

Now you mention it they did have uniforms on that looked like a cross between the US 7th Cavalry and the Waffen SS. :laugh4:

Oh I'm fully aware that the reason I was stopped was because I had British number plates. Gotta say their English was excellent, much better than the average bobbies French I'd imagine.

Their faces when they were told that I had Italian wine (and no French) was almost worth the hassle. :laugh4:

[Vladimir]

Last time my bicycle was stolen, I went to the police. I had borrowed a bike to get to the station.

'Good afternoon. My bicycle was stolen earlier today and..'
'I see you arrived here on bicycle. How did you get it?'
'My friend was so kind to lend me hers. Anyway, my bike was stolen where I work, which is at...'
'Where did you get your bike?'
'Huh?'
'Your bike! I am quite sure you stole it. Begone or I'll put you in custody while I check the origin of your bicycle.'

Louis leaves, part confused, part seething with rage. ~:confused: :furious3:

Cop shouts 'Hah! Glad to see you run with your tail between your legs! Proves I was right, doesn't it!?'


*thank God I am white :shame:*

Pretence indeed. They searched you because you are British. On the scale of suspect foreigners, that is still alright. For a fun time with French coppers, try, say, a Bulgarian license plate. Or put on a bullet-proof vest and disguise yourself as an Arab or a Black. :skull:

Welcome to Latinistan, where 'frustrated little men with shiny uniforms', of some sort or another, forever manage to make people's lifes miserable. Oh well, all peoples get the cops they deserve. The UK has unarmed bobbies. The US trigger-happy pigs. France little fascists with flashy uniforms.

Wait a minute: "hers"? Either that would prove your point or subject you to more mockery.

Assuming, of course, that French bikes are gender-oriented like U.S. bikes. Or maybe you people all ride girl bikes. ~;)

Regarding your last paragraph: Read my sig. Do French fascists dress better? (j/k, of course)

[Husar]

Man Louis, that sounds really bad. :sweatdrop:

I wish the whole world had cops like we do, okay there was one who called me an idiot because I was a little confused when he bought something from me, but all the others I've come across seemed pretty nice, maybe it's because many of them have hot female colleagues? That might be relaxing. :shrug:

Also Louis, I would have let him check who the bike belongs to if your friend gave it to you, she would probably tell him that and then he wasted a lot of time and would still have to work on your issue. But maybe that's just because i never learned to fear the police, rather to respect them and see them as friends, as their motto suggests. :shrug:

[Hepcat]

In Britain I found the police approachable and nice enough. Though in France they often looked really pissed off and so I tended to avoid them. And despite this they stopped me for no reason (or at least none I could really think of except maybe they thought I was on drugs/carrying drugs which is crazy). :inquisitive:

I had gone for a walk around Provins, and then was walking back into the town (I'd ended up outside it) when suddenly this police car pulled into the Railway station car park in front of me, two police get out and demand my ID. So I told them in French that I don't have my id because I just went for a walk around the town so I left my passport at my friend's place and that I was from NZ. At first they seemed skeptical for some reason, but I remembered I had my NZ YHA membership card in my wallet so I showed them that and suddenly they changed their attitudes completely and asked me a bit about how I was finding Provins and whether I was cold or not. I suppose they must have thought I was on drugs because there was snow on the ground, it was a freezing day and I was walking around with a thin sweater on and thin trousers seemingly unaffected (I was too lazy and cheap to buy winter clothes so I just toughed it out with my summer gear). And I guess I also do look a bit stoned when wandering around listening to my ipod. But the whole incident give me quite a fright. Just the way they drove the car in front of me, got out and asked me for id in a very aggressive way. :sweatdrop:

At least my French was good enough to talk with them. ~D

[Louis VI the Fat]

Their faces when they were told that I had Italian wine (and no French) was almost worth the hassle. :laugh4:You know, I'm still very angry about your post. Those bastards are a disgrace to France! This is no way to deal with foreigners. They should've shown you what France is really about, and have dragged you out of the car for a right good beating for carrying Italian wine.


More seriously:
You know what they say, the French disrespect the law but love authority. The English respect the law and hate authority.
Germans, I'm afraid, love both. (Law and authority that is, not their western co-continentals)

And in the end, we all get just what we deserve. France, and indeed Latin Europe, gets little fascists with shiny boots, mirroring sunglasses and flashy uniforms. It's the ancient love for the strong man, the macho, whether in politics or on the street corner.
Meanwhile, cars are parked six lines thick in the middle of the street, traffic rules don't mean anything and the last time I've seen somebody wait in line was in science-fiction movies or America.
:wall:

The British have bobbies with reflecting yellow yerseys. They look more like road workers than policemen to me. At the risk of sounding repetitive, I think Britain has the best law enforcement culture in the world. Together with the Dutch. Possibly Scandinavia as well.

The Germans have, well...after the final bankruptcy of Prussian and other authoritarianist streaks a few decades ago they've been having an alright law enforcerment culture.

Don't know where America or Australia fit in this. (But no, despite their speaking a slightly related language, neither are British)

[Louis VI the Fat]

Good to see you, Hepcat! :balloon2:

(At least, I think you've been away. I haven't been as active recently as in times past)


Man Louis, that sounds really bad.He was just making it perfectly clear that he was in a position to make my life more miserable than I could make his. If I require him to do twenty minutes of work, he'll show me he's got all night to prevent me from doing that. My insolence of undermining the authority of a uniformed man by parting him from his coffee for twenty minutes could not go unchallenged.

I didn't need a police report for insurance, and I wasn't under any illusion (anymore) that the police would make any effort whatsoever to retrieve a bicycle or catch a thief. So what do you do? Waste three days of fighting bureaucracy just to be able to fill in a useless form that will find its way to the bottom of a drawer before you've even left the police station? :shame:
Wait a minute: "hers"? Either that would prove your point or subject you to more mockery.

Assuming, of course, that French bikes are gender-oriented like U.S. bikes. Or maybe you people all ride girl bikes.The bastard wasn't interested in my bike. He was interested in his coffee and his authority.

We do have male and female bikes. Most women just ride male bikes though. My last bike was the same colour as my profile page. Which you American brutes would probably deem 'girlish'. Me, I'd deem it all-pervasing personal style.

[Strike For The South]

We do have male and female bikes. Most women just ride male bikes though. My last bike was the same colour as my profile page. Which you American brutes would probably deem 'girlish'. Me, I'd deem it all-pervasing personal style.

1. Since when did bikes have genders?
2. You're talking to a man with size 14 purple crocs. I have STYLE

[Samurai Waki]

I've never once had a problem with the Police in the US, yet for some reason whenever I've gone north into Canada the Mounties sure have a hard-on for making sure I'm not doing anything illegal. I always thought they were supposed to be gentlemen, but it could just be the fact that the folks up in Calgary and Edmonton don't like Americans much, though I've never gotten that impression from most of the people I've known up there.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Australia, the UK, the USA? Your police brutality is as nothing compared to the depths of depravity consistently reached by the French police.


The jackbooted little asses may be terrible in terms of trying to avoid work, but I'm not seeing anything that much worse in terms of brutality.

Some recent news:
In Philly, a white cop uses racial slurs (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/20090401_Student_s_article_leads_to_desk_duty_for_officer.html)and describes blacks as 'animals' to a journalism student on a ride-a-long. Imagine what he says to other cops.

Student's article leads to desk duty for officer

A Philadelphia police officer has been put on desk duty after he was quoted spouting his disgust for the black residents in the community he patrolled.
...
At one point during a three-hour, midday patrol-car ride together in January, Thrasher reportedly pointed out recent homicide scenes, three of which involved multiple gunshots.

"People in this neighborhood don't care about each other," Thrasher was quoted as saying. "They'll shoot each other for drugs, for money, for bulls-. All they care about is their reputation. They want to look tough."

After Thrasher responded to a call about an argument, he reportedly dismissed the incident to his lieutenant as "TNS. Typical n- s-."

At another scene, where a man was shot in the back of the head by his daughter's boyfriend, Thrasher said: "These people are . . . disgusting. It's like they're animals."
...
McDonald quoted Thrasher on tensions in the community between police and residents, with Thrasher saying: "People hate us here. They spit at us."

Two cops in Baltimore beat a handcuffed teenager with clubs (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512110,00.html), and their sergeant helps them cover it up. That was five years ago. Four years ago one cop was actually convicted of second degree criminal assault. He is still on the force, with pay. They've been paying a convicted criminal for four years.

BALTIMORE — Two Baltimore police officers beat a teenager with a baton and a pool stick while he was handcuffed and shackled, then tried to cover up the attack with their sergeant's help, according to a federal indictment unsealed Wednesday.

Officers Gregory Mussmacher and Guy Gerstel and Sgt. Wayne Thompson face charges of civil rights violations in a six-count indictment.

Gerstel and Thompson have retired. Mussmacher, 34, has been suspended with pay since the April 2004 incident, even though he was convicted in February 2005 of second-degree criminal assault, police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said.

Mussmacher remained under suspension because city police were cooperating with the FBI, which was investigating the beating, Guglielmi said. But Guglielmi could not explain why Mussmacher was not kicked off the force immediately after his conviction. Mussmacher received a suspended sentence and probation.

The alleged beating victim, Benjamin R. Rowland, filed a federal lawsuit against Mussmacher and Gerstel in 2007, seeking $6 million in damages. The lawsuit was settled out of court.

Rowland is identified only as "B.R." in the indictment.

According to the indictment, Mussmacher hit Rowland in the face with a baton and Gerstel struck him in the back with a pool stick after he was arrested on April 27, 2004. Rowland was 17 years old at the time.

The indictment says Gerstel obstructed justice by lying under oath in a state proceeding about the presence of two other officers when Rowland was arrested. Gerstel is also accused of making false statements to the FBI about his role in the beating.

Thompson and Mussmacher submitted false police reports about Rowland's arrest and how he was injured, according to the indictment.

Before beating Rowland, Mussmacher removed the teen's handcuffs, set aside his badge and gun and offered to fight Rowland, the indictment says. The teen was never charged with a crime as a result of his arrest.

Gerstel faces up to 35 years in prison if convicted of all three charges against him; Mussmacher faces 15 years, and Thompson faces five years.

No attorneys had entered appearances on the officers' behalf Wednesday, and their initial court appearances had not yet been scheduled, said Marcia Murphy, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney's office in Baltimore.

Joseph E. Spicer, who represented Mussmacher in the lawsuit, declined to comment. Rowland's attorney in the lawsuit, Robert L. Smith Jr., did not immediately return a message.


In Connecticut, (http://www.connpost.com/breakingnews/ci_12037318) cops get a tip from a woman that a guy was doing cocaine at his house. Naturally, they gather together 21 officers with body armor and machine guns and raid his house. They don't knock on his door, but toss in two grenades designed to disorient and confuse. They then break down his door. One cop thinks he was hit in the foot, though he isn't, and moves forward, bashing the guy with his bulletproof shield.

Let's look at this; two extremely loud grenades go off in your house, which has previously been shot at, you can't hear or see anything. And these well armed men in masks are breaking in and hitting you.

So the guy, according to the cop, grabs hold of the arm of the cop bashing him. Now, the cops have all their guns drawn as they break into this guy's house. They sent 21 officers to practically wage war on this guy.

So the cops all have their guns out and ready to get these two cocaine smokers lying in their house. When one of them grabs the arm of the guy (if he really did at all) the cop starts firing wildly with his gun, killing the guy.

In the Twin Cities, a cop shoots an unarmed teen eight times, killing him (http://www.twincities.com/ci_12039570). And then he gets a medal for the murder. Especially significant since the cops planted a gun on the kid.

Santa Fe cops beat a man (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6349894.html) they stopped for walking down the middle of the street, who's father had just died. There's a video; they yell 'stop ******* resisting' as they beat him and slam him onto the ground. Two cops are laying on top of him, punching him in the head and body as he's pinned to the ground, continuing to tell him to stop resisting. Oh, and they pepper spray him while he's on the ground. The cops charge him with assault on police, then resisting arrest. He is acquitted and the city of Santa Fe settles a police abuse lawsuit with $125,000.

Now, you tell me - if two large men have you pinned to the ground and are directly on top of you, hitting you in the head, are you going to lie motionless and not even try to block the blows? Also, the police denied the existence of the video at first.

And then we have stories like this - a laid off man gearing up with body armor and guns to kill policeman. (http://kdka.com/local/officers.shot.Stanton.2.975820.html) Normally I'd give at least a half hearted condemnation of this, but after all I've read, I don't feel up to it.


Gunmen Kills Three Pittsburgh Police Officers
PITTSBURGH (KDKA/AP) ―

A man opened fire on officers during a domestic disturbance call Saturday morning, killing three of them, a police official said.

Of course, while I wouldn't shed many tears for some of the worse scumbags in this thread meeting such an end, those were just random cops who hadn't necessarily done anything wrong.

But then the cynic in me says they likely have done bad things, they supported bad and corrupt cops through their participation in a code of silence, and would likely have violated the rights of other citizens in the future. I suppose the shooter here is someone who's read a little too much Unintended Consequences.

Or maybe the rest of us haven't read it enough.

CR

[KukriKhan]

Poor Crazed Rabbit. This anti-cop crusade has obssessed him. Imagine what it must be like to wake up every morning, determined to find yet another police atrocity to share with us.

Too bad there are so many, he never fails to find new material.

I begin to understand his other obssession: gunpowder-based self-defense.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Poor Crazed Rabbit. This anti-cop crusade has obssessed him. Imagine what it must be like to wake up every morning, determined to find yet another police atrocity to share with us.

Too bad there are so many, he never fails to find new material.

I begin to understand his other obssession: gunpowder-based self-defense.

I'm concerned, not obsessed. And I was supportive of the second amendment far before I realized what so many police were up to.

As I've said, I'm not so much anti-cop as I am anti-police-officers-assaulting-people-and-getting-away-with-it-because-the-system-covers-for-them.

I know I post a goodly amount of stories in this thread. But I don't scour the internet. I go to one single blog, run by one guy, who posts once or twice a day. One post will generally have a round-up of the latest news. And even then I don't run right over here to post it.

I simply don't wake up every morning "determined to find yet another police atrocity to share with" you guys.

Anyway, here's a story of how the Phoenix Police manufactured some crimes against a blogger who was ripping into their cover-ups (http://badphoenixcops.blogspot.com/2009/03/homicide-and-thier-lies-with-andrew.html) and other wrongdoings, so they could raid his house and take all his computer equipment and data. (http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/02/phoenix-police-raid-home-of-blogger-whose-writing-is-highly-critical-of-them/)

CR

[KukriKhan]

Sorry, old friend. I didn't mean that as a personal critique, just a kind observation. But you're right, in the context of your entire day, finding and posting a couple of police abuse links represents probably a mere 15 minutes. It's just that those contributions have come to dominate this thread/topic, so as a reader I say: "OK. I get it. Police abuse is widespread, and documentable."

Now what are we gonna do about it?

Or is the purpose of this thread to explore the length and depth of law enforcement depravity?

You wrote:

I'm not so much anti-cop as I am anti-police-officers-assaulting-people-and-getting-away-with-it-because-the-system-covers-for-them.

Then what we have is not a police problem, but a courts problem, yes?

[Husar]

[...]which has previously been shot at[...]

:no:

What kind of "civilized" country is that???

Most houses here were last shot at 60 years ago, seems like over there almost every house gets shot at frequently. Maybe that neighborhood needs more policing. :mellow:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Sorry, old friend. I didn't mean that as a personal critique, just a kind observation. But you're right, in the context of your entire day, finding and posting a couple of police abuse links represents probably a mere 15 minutes. It's just that those contributions have come to dominate this thread/topic, so as a reader I say: "OK. I get it. Police abuse is widespread, and documentable."

Quite. But this thread is only one of many I contribute to, and only a fraction of the backroom. Has the point been proved in this thread? Yes, I suppose so. But it's easier to simply maintain this one then open a new one whenever some particularly disgusting incident occurs.


Now what are we gonna do about it?

Or is the purpose of this thread to explore the length and depth of law enforcement depravity?

You wrote:

Then what we have is not a police problem, but a courts problem, yes?

Some of each, but mostly police in this case (there are many problems with unscrupulous prosecutors, but there actions don't contribute to this problem so much). It's the police who cover up for one another, lie and plant guns and intimidate witnesses and make it so no prosecutor can put together a case in the first place. Even the cops who don't directly commit the crimes know what happens and let it happen. As has been side, this 'blue wall of silence' must be shattered.

CR

[Husar]

Well, here's the other extreme. (http://www.policelink.com/news/articles/102339-three-pittsburgh-officers-were-ambushed-at-door) :no:

[Vladimir]

I'm surprised CR missed this (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30070062/?Gt1=43001). Bloody fascists!

:laugh4:

[KukriKhan]

Heh. Detroit PD: shot at, stabbed & generally beaten and diss'd so often, they've lost their sense o'Yuma.

Still, it pays regular. Unlike most jobs there, in that town.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I'm concerned, not obsessed. The world needs more of your concern, not less. Bad enough as it is, being shot at or beaten by a gang of street punks is one thing. By the state is another one altogether. Democracy and liberty is the limitation and accountability of state power, it is the prevention of gangs of armed men from beating and shooting other people.

This is all not a trivial concern.

[Crazed Rabbit]

More on the culture of corruption/blue wall of silence.

In Fresno a Chief is under fire (http://www.ksee24.com/news/local/42338027.html) for interfering in internal affairs investigations to protect violent cops.


Wednesday, through a department spokesperson, Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer refused to comment on allegations he's condoned a culture of violence within the force.

Dyer declined to discuss accusations made by a member of his own force, that he had a hand in manipulating the outcome of internal affairs investigations.

But, attorneys pushing a lawsuit against the chief and the department hope to show that Dyer's own misconduct set a tone for the department.

In a February 26th deposition obtained exclusively by KSEE 24 News, Dyer admitted he violated police procedure in the past.

The civil rights lawsuit claims Dyer's misconduct opened the door for other officers to behave outside of policy.

In Hawaii a chief is also under fire - by his own officers, for actually disciplining them (http://www.kitv.com/news/19118208/detail.html):


HONOLULU -- Honolulu Police Department Chief Boise Correa on Monday defended himself against criticism from the police officers' union, which wants him ousted.

He told KITV he is taking his own survey of police brass.

A survey taken by the union and completed by about half the police officers found 87 percent of them want a new chief. That number is up from the survey in 2005, when 78 percent of them wanted a new chief.

They said they felt Correa treats officers unfairly in discipline and other matters.

Correa said disciplining officers is unpopular at times, but necessary to maintain the department's integrity. He said all the data point to success at the top of his department.

"We had a low, the lowest crime rate in 75 years. We had the lowest amount of complaints ever reported to the police commission," Correa said.

Correa told KITV he is asking captains and above for their suggestions to improve the Police Department.

The Honolulu Police Commission must decide whether to reappoint or replace him when his term ends in August.

Some commissioners have told people they are amazed at how passionate the rank-and-file are in their opposition to Correa and they are leaning against reappointing him, sources said.

The Police Commission deciding his fate is made up of Mayor Mufi Hannemann's appointees, who sources said has privately told people he does not support retaining Correa.

Over in Denver a while back, some undercover cops beat the ever-loving **** out of a fifty seven year old man (http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=97466). One of them, undercover, swore at the old man, saying he ran a red light on his bike. The man knocked the baseball cap off of the cop. So naturally, the cops do the standard "three cops pummeling with fists" while they've got him on the ground.

And then, while he's on his stomach, hand behind his back, with three cops on top of him, one of the cops pulls back his head and slams it face first into the pavement. And then they charge him with assault on a police officer, lying in all their reports, and not interviewing any witnesses.

But luckily, the whole thing was videotaped (http://www.9news.com/video/default.aspx?aid=58967). You can hear the guys' teeth cracking as his face is slammed into the ground. And the cop who slammed the guy's face into the pavement was actually charged with a crime - second degree assault. (http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=112048)

The videotape didn't come out until after the victim's trial had began. Because the cops didn't know there was a tape, they lied under oath about what happened.

CR

[Banquo's Ghost]

One thing that intrigues me is that in the US based crime dramas I like to watch, no suspect is ever interrogated with an official tape running - video or audio.

This strikes me as odd, and open to wide abuse - if it's actually what happens. The lack of such protection for suspects may of course, simply be a dramatic device, minimising the disruption of the storyline.

Do police have to record all interviews? If not, why not?

[Crazed Rabbit]

One thing that intrigues me is that in the US based crime dramas I like to watch, no suspect is ever interrogated with an official tape running - video or audio.

This strikes me as odd, and open to wide abuse - if it's actually what happens. The lack of such protection for suspects may of course, simply be a dramatic device, minimising the disruption of the storyline.

Do police have to record all interviews? If not, why not?

I believe in real life it's a mixed bag, with a trend towards more recording. Not entirely sure, though.

CR

[Banquo's Ghost]

I believe in real life it's a mixed bag, with a trend towards more recording. Not entirely sure, though.

CR

Interesting, thank you. So as far as you know, it's not a legal requirement across the country?

Are policing responsibilities set at state level or some other legislative level? (I ask because it informs the question of accountability of police forces in the USA, the root, I think, of the abuses you are highlighting).

[Vladimir]

Recordings are a good idea and usually end up exonerating the officer in question. So much so that if he did any research on it, the results would shake CR out of his frenzy. But no, in a country as large and diverse as the U.S., recording isn't mandatory everywhere.

Banquo, please don't base your perceptions of U.S. law enforcement on law enforcement dramas. As a former instructor of mine says: "Don't waste your time with novels."

[Banquo's Ghost]

Banquo, please don't base your perceptions of U.S. law enforcement on law enforcement dramas. As a former instructor of mine says: "Don't waste your time with novels."

Don't worry, I have no intention of doing so. However, since I have never seen the inside of a US police station (nor have any plans in that direction) crime drama provides at least a starting point to ask something that bothered me as I read this thread.

Oh, and your instructor was utterly wrong about novels - but that's a different thread. :beam:

Thanks for the information. :bow:

[Crazed Rabbit]

So, what do you call it when a person says you won't have your children returned to you unless you give them money? Kidnappers, right?

Or, in one Texas town, police: (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/05/texas.police.seizures/)


TENAHA, Texas (CNN) -- Roderick Daniels was traveling through East Texas in October 2007 when, he says, he was the victim of a highway robbery.

Police in the small East Texas town of Tenaha are accused of unjustly taking valuables from motorists.

The Tennessee man says he was ordered to pull his car over and surrender his jewelry and $8,500 in cash that he had with him to buy a new car.

But Daniels couldn't go to the police to report the incident.

The men who stopped him were the police.

Daniels was stopped on U.S. Highway 59 outside Tenaha, near the Louisiana state line. Police said he was driving 37 mph in a 35 mph zone. They hauled him off to jail and threatened him with money-laundering charges -- but offered to release him if he signed papers forfeiting his property.

...

Texas law allows police to confiscate drug money and other personal property they believe are used in the commission of a crime. If no charges are filed or the person is acquitted, the property has to be returned. But Guillory's lawsuit states that Tenaha and surrounding Shelby County don't bother to return much of what they confiscate.

...

Jennifer Boatright and Ron Henderson said they agreed to forfeit their property after Russell threatened to have their children taken away.

Like Daniels, the couple says they were carrying a large amount of cash --- about $6,000 -- to buy a car. When they were stopped in Tenaha in 2007, Boatright said, Russell came to the Tenaha police station to berate her and threaten to separate the family.

"I said, 'If it's the money you want, you can take it, if that's what it takes to keep my children with me and not separate them from us. Take the money,' " she said.
Don't Miss

The document Henderson signed, which bears Russell's signature, states that in exchange for forfeiting the cash, "no criminal charges shall be filed ... and our children shall not be turned over" to the state's child protective services agency.

Maryland resident Amanee Busbee said she also was threatened with losing custody of her child after being stopped in Tenaha with her fiancé and his business partner. They were headed to Houston with $50,000 to complete the purchase of a restaurant, she said.

"The police officer would say things to me like, 'Your son is going to child protective services because you are not saying what we need to hear,' " Busbee said.

CR

[Strike For The South]

To be fair, this was only done to minorites and "people whom ain't from 'round here are ya boi" So it doesn't count.

[Husar]

Well, my personal opinion is that driving around with lots of jewelry and 8,500$ cash is pretty nuts anyway, much safer to have the money in your bank account and let the banks handle the payment process. Of course that way you support the New World Order and the banks will take your money away and control your life but even when you pay cash and drive around in Texas, the fuel stations (and police) do the same to you. :laugh4:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Or, in one Texas town, police: (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/05/texas.police.seizures/)That's just third world. I know America likes states rights, county rights, much autonomy for local law enforment. But this is just insane. Civilized America should clamp down on this.

Kidnapping they say. I call it sheer piracy. Aye, these scally wags should paint a Jolly Roger on their police vehicles when they go buccaneering passing-by landlubbers.

[InsaneApache]

Unbelievable. :jawdrop:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Criminals pretending to have badges: (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-fatal-home-invasion-043009,0,7458573.story)

Deputies said two suspects armed with a long-barrel weapon burst into a south Orange County home this morning and shot one of the residents to death.

Orange County Sheriff's Office investigators said the victim is a 38-year-old man who lived in the residence at 1901 Rose Boulevard. They have not released his name.

Preliminary reports show the suspects knocked on the door and yelled "Police, open the door!" sometime after 1 a.m. The suspects rushed inside and fatally shot the victim, reports show.

In Oregon, an excessive force cop gets a 'cop of the year award' (http://www.kval.com/news/local/44854337.html)- I guess that's what they reward.

More on the theft-by-cop (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/Property_seizures_seen_as_piracy_.html)mentioned above (an earlier article).

Law enforcement authorities in this East Texas town of 1,000 people seized property from at least 140 motorists between 2006 and 2008, and, to date, filed criminal charges against fewer than half, according to a review of court documents by the San Antonio Express-News.

Virtually anything of value was up for grabs: cash, cell phones, personal jewelry, a pair of sneakers, and often, the very car that was being driven through town.
...
Some lawmakers, fed up with calls from irate constituents, say enough is enough. Sen. John Whitmire, D-Houston, chairman of the Senate Criminal Justice Committee, said the state’s asset forfeiture law is being abused by enough jurisdictions across the state that he wants to rewrite major sections of it this year.

“The idea that people lose their property but are never charged and never get it back, that’s theft as far as I’m concerned,” he said.

Sen. Juan “Chuy” Hinojosa, D-McAllen, believes some law enforcement agencies in his cash-strapped district in the Rio Grande Valley have become so dependent on the profitable seizures that they routinely misapply the state’s civil forfeiture law.

“In a lot of cases, they’re more focused on trying to find the money than in trying to find the drugs,” he said.

That means law enforcement agencies in the Valley tend to target vehicles heading south into Mexico rather than northbound cars, Hinojosa said, because the southbound vehicles are more likely to be transporting cash — the profits from the drug trade — as opposed to just the drugs.

In 2008, three years after stripping a man of $10,032 in cash as he drove south along U.S. 281 to buy a headstone for his dying aunt, Jim Wells County officials returned the man’s money — and the county then paid him $110,000 in damages as part of a settlement. Attorney Malcolm Greenstein said criminal charges never were filed against his client, Javier Gonzalez, nor any of the dozens of people whose records he reviewed. People were given the option of going to jail or signing a waiver, Greenstein said. Like Gonzalez, most signed the waiver.
...
But in Tenaha, a town of chicken farms that hugs the Louisiana border, critics say being a black out-of-towner passing through with anything of value is seen as evidence of a crime.

Tenaha Mayor George Bowers, 80, defended the seizures, saying they allowed a cash-poor city the means to add a second police car in a two-policeman town and help pay for a new police station.

“It’s always helpful to have any kind of income to expand your police force,” Bowers said.

A Missouri cop strangles and knees a suspect in the neck (http://www.kctv5.com/news/19428434/detail.html)- after he's already been handcuffed.

Watch the videos.



Geoffrey Alpert is a professor of criminology at the University of South Carolina. For the past 25 years, his research has focused on high-risk police activities, specializing in use of force.
...
"I don't know how you'd make an argument to be normal, for that activity to be justified. There's no reason for it. Even if he was fighting, even if he were wrestling, you don't put a knee in someone's neck," Alpert said.
...
Neither Lee's Summit police officials nor Heil wanted to talk on camera, but in a statement the department said, "The use of force was deemed appropriate, and the actions of the officers were considered appropriate, as well, based on training and procedure."

EDIT: Another story. This time a town threatens a business (http://www.wickedlocal.com/raynham/news/x362994242/Raynham-officials-not-loving-two-alleged-McDonald-s-incidents) because the manager, legally, doesn't talk to the police.

CR

[Vladimir]

:laugh4:

Silly Rabbit, you're doing the same thing the anti-gun nuts do to argue against firearm possession.

[LittleGrizzly]

Silly rabbit is (checks tribesman signature).... ahh fine and acceptable... just avoid the word poor...

So rapidly avoiding turning this into a gun thread, is your point Vlad, that these examples of bad policing are very rare and no laws should be passed or policy put into place to prevent these events from happening as most police are good guys who should be left to get on with the job ?

[/S]hey thats the same logic the pro gun nuts use![/S]

That logic is severly flawed...

Police need some of the greatest oversight and restrictions on thier powers as they are quite literally the law, especially in examples that CR came up with, or my personal experiences with cautions and the like, police can very often be judge, jury and executioner fine collector. Once one or a few police officers have made the decision they can not be stopped before/during the event and later on its almost impossible to prove you have been wronged...

[Vladimir]

So rapidly avoiding turning this into a gun thread, is your point Vlad, that these examples of bad policing are very rare and no laws should be passed or policy put into place to prevent these events from happening as most police are good guys who should be left to get on with the job ?

:inquisitive:

I know 2 + 2 can equal 1, 0, or a variety of other numbers but most likely the answer is 4.

How do you pass laws against something which is illegal?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Here's a video from Alabama with a very unusual ending:
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2009/05/five_birmingham_police_officer.html

A suspect leads police on a chase in a van. He's forced off a freeway on-ramp and the van flips, knocking him out and ejecting him. He lands face down on the ground.

And then five officers fall upon him like rabid dogs, kicking and beating him.

But the unusual bit is that the five officers were fired!


Five Birmingham police officers have been fired for a January 2008 beating of an already-unconscious suspect with fists, feet and a billy club, a battering caught on videotape until a police officer turned off the patrol car camera, city and police officials said today.
...
Police Chief A.C. Roper called the video "shameful." Mayor Larry Langford said it was "disgusting."

Roper said the video shamed the police department and the citizens served by the department, saying it was especially troubling because these were seasoned, veteran officers.

But we have something else:

Authorities believe the video, [see the full 20-minute chase here] taken after a high-speed chase by several area law enforcement agencies ended when the fleeing suspect's van flipped, has been seen by numerous Birmingham officers and up to a half dozen supervisors over the past year. But top city and police officials weren't made aware of the taped beating until they were contacted by the district attorney's office two months ago.
...
Roper said there will be additional disciplinary action against supervisors who failed to report the incident to higher-ups. He has demanded the Internal Affairs Division track down every supervisor who saw the videotape, including those who have since retired. He said the department is reviewing its reporting mechanisms and policies.

Yup - supervisors saw this and did nothing. They protected criminals. That is the modern mentality of the thin blue line.

Also distressing are some of the comments.

Here's another, where an officer breaks the shoulder of an 83 year old woman:
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090519/NEWS/90519037/-1/NEWS04

Here's one about a cop on trial ((!) only because of the video) for bodyslamming a woman and breaking her jaw:
http://www.lohud.com/article/20090519/NEWS02/905190396/1018/Fellow+cop+testifies+Simoes+used+excessive+force+on+woman

And, after all the child, woman, and restrained person beatings, sometimes we need a little levity, like this video of a guy following and pulling over a young cop and getting into his face (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quf0ihNEdmI). And not even getting arrested! So fun.

And then the cop gets disciplined by the department! (http://www.delmarvanow.com/article/20090519/NEWS01/90519036)

CR

[Banquo's Ghost]

I have renamed the thread, since it has long passed the original single example and evolved into a wider reportage of incidents of police abuse.

:bow:

[InsaneApache]

Walking on the Moon was definatly abusive.

[seireikhaan]

I know that these incidents are crazy, but what exactly has the point of the thread become? That police forces need better regulation on who is allowed to become officer? Harsher punishment for thug cops?

[Crazed Rabbit]

I know that these incidents are crazy, but what exactly has the point of the thread become? That police forces need better regulation on who is allowed to become officer? Harsher punishment for thug cops?

In a sentence, I want some real, actual punishment for cops who break the law - and a dismantling of the system of silence and cover ups in police departments that protects them. Discussions on how to achieve that would certainly be appropriate. I think civilian oversight boards with full, constant access to all police documents and reports, and the power to discipline and fire cops, would be good. Something that's not the pathetic internal reviews that exist today.

The thread seems to have become a listing of abuses I use to prove that not only do abuses exist, but that they are systemic. Plus it means I don't start a new thread whenever I round up another batch of cop news items.

CR

[seireikhaan]

In a sentence, I want some real, actual punishment for cops who break the law - and a dismantling of the system of silence and cover ups in police departments that protects them. Discussions on how to achieve that would certainly be appropriate. I think civilian oversight boards with full, constant access to all police documents and reports, and the power to discipline and fire cops, would be good. Something that's not the pathetic internal reviews that exist today.

The thread seems to have become a listing of abuses I use to prove that not only do abuses exist, but that they are systemic. Plus it means I don't start a new thread whenever I round up another batch of cop news items.

CR
Well, I would not say that police abuses are systemic- I find the word a bit strong. Certainly a problem, no doubt. I rather like the civilian oversight board idea, but it would be a bit tricky in practice; do the members get paid, is it a full time job? Would it be more like jury duty, where anyone could potentially get called in for a given service? Hmm....

[Vuk]

You know what I think is much more dangerous and in need of urgent reform? Legislative abuses. They are much more common, have much worse consequences often times, and they are barely ever touched. You are not gonna root out the bad jackets until you go after the suits. Go for the guys up top who allow this type of corruption and replace them with honest, diligent people. 99% of police I believe are decent people, and a lot of police abuses are caused by repeat offenders who should have been fired the first time. The reason that they weren't is because of the corrupt supervisors and such. Go after the suits, and the jackets will tow the line. Go after the jackets (who are mostly innocent, dutiful people who put their lives on the line for you and I) and all you will do is scare away good people from the profession, and only opportunists who know hirer ups will join, and nothing will be done about them. The good cops will feel defensive, feel like they are being treated unfairly, and their morale will be considerably lowered. When police exercise too great an amount of caution, innocent people can die. That is what will happen when you attack the police men and women themselves (and you know what? Most of them don't deserve such accusations as are usually leveled against the force as a whole (except Stateys, they deserve it all :beam:)).

Go after all the :daisy: corrupt bureaucrats (which there are a lot more of) and you will take care of most of the problems with police abuses AND get rid of so much of the financial corruption that is crippling many municipalities. (My county comes to mind *cough*) And you know what? I bet that abuses AGAINST cops are a LOT more common than abuses by cops against civs. Why is no one crying about all the violence done to police? What, are they not human beings? Is it irrelevant?

[Husar]

And, after all the child, woman, and restrained person beatings, sometimes we need a little levity, like this video of a guy following and pulling over a young cop and getting into his face (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quf0ihNEdmI). And not even getting arrested! So fun.

And then the cop gets disciplined by the department! (http://www.delmarvanow.com/article/20090519/NEWS01/90519036)

CR

I'm not arguing the other cases, those five cops beating the unconscious man was really sick, good riddance.
But this case above, well, he was speeding, 100mph is not scary but the guy who makes the video sounds like some weird sadist as well, trying to harass the cop for it and enjoying that the cop doesn't know what to do. that the cop does not beat or arrest him actually speaks for the cop if you ask me.
Don't get me wrong, the cop shouldn't be speeding at all but the video guy goes a bit too far not only with his language but alsowhen he tries to hold up the cop by blocking the path of his car, he's got the video and the cop's name, the rest is just provocation and the cop is a better cop for not falling for it.

[LittleGrizzly]

The guy had a somewhat noble cause... its a shame he is a complete idiot, he should have had a go at the copper for speeding without reason... instead he makes himself look like a bit of a wind up artist who is just trying to annoy the cop rather than do something for the common good...

TBH i think he was doing it because he dislikes cops rather than some noble cause, still good things are done that way sometimes...

Why is no one crying about all the violence done to police? What, are they not human beings? Is it irrelevant?

Same reason civilian deaths are cryed about alot more than soldiers deaths... police are there to put themselves on the line and look after civilians, so when a thug beats a cop that is a tragedy, but when a cop beats a civilian for little reason it is so much worse...

partially because they are the law and are more likely to get away with it
partially because they are supposed to protect us and are doing the opposite
partially because we don't pay thugs to beat up policen offiicers but when police offiicers beat up civilians were paying them to do it...

im sure theres one or two i missed there...

I think a large portion of the problem with police forces is arrogance, cops by and large seem a lot more arrogant and on a power trip than any other group i could think of in society. You could say it is inevitable, we put them in charge and plenty of people when in charge let it go to thier head, so i can't say ihave really got a good idea how to change individual police officers personalitys...

But stuff like cams on cars (preferably with no 'off button) civilian oversight board (with a range of people like human rights activist, and maybe people in the mould of CR and Vuk, and maybe older/retired officers with spotless records and reputations, so you get a good range of views at the board)

I think police should have less ability to do things such as on the spot fines and cautions, these things really do make them judge, jury and executioner.... not sure, but i think you can't really appeal against these either, oversight from non officers is essential i feel to any punishment...

Ohh and that includes DNA and fingerprints, we shouldn't have them taken on the whim of police officers...

[Vuk]

The guy had a somewhat noble cause... its a shame he is a complete idiot, he should have had a go at the copper for speeding without reason... instead he makes himself look like a bit of a wind up artist who is just trying to annoy the cop rather than do something for the common good...

TBH i think he was doing it because he dislikes cops rather than some noble cause, still good things are done that way sometimes...

Why is no one crying about all the violence done to police? What, are they not human beings? Is it irrelevant?

Same reason civilian deaths are cryed about alot more than soldiers deaths... police are there to put themselves on the line and look after civilians, so when a thug beats a cop that is a tragedy, but when a cop beats a civilian for little reason it is so much worse...

partially because they are the law and are more likely to get away with it
partially because they are supposed to protect us and are doing the opposite
partially because we don't pay thugs to beat up policen offiicers but when police offiicers beat up civilians were paying them to do it...

im sure theres one or two i missed there...

I think a large portion of the problem with police forces is arrogance, cops by and large seem a lot more arrogant and on a power trip than any other group i could think of in society. You could say it is inevitable, we put them in charge and plenty of people when in charge let it go to thier head, so i can't say ihave really got a good idea how to change individual police officers personalitys...

But stuff like cams on cars (preferably with no 'off button) civilian oversight board (with a range of people like human rights activist, and maybe people in the mould of CR and Vuk, and maybe older/retired officers with spotless records and reputations, so you get a good range of views at the board)

I think police should have less ability to do things such as on the spot fines and cautions, these things really do make them judge, jury and executioner.... not sure, but i think you can't really appeal against these either, oversight from non officers is essential i feel to any punishment...

Ohh and that includes DNA and fingerprints, we shouldn't have them taken on the whim of police officers...

When someone is noble enough to put their life on the line, it is just as horrible when they are abused as a civi who does not put his life on the line. I get your point, but a human being is a human being. I find it hard to understand how you can say that one innocent person being beat up or killed is somehow not as important as another. The uniform does not make them ANY less human, it simply is their chain of responsibility and their medallion of pride. When they neglect their responsibilty or abuse their power, it is certainly horrible, but no more horrible than someone who dutifully bears that responsibilty and puts their life on the line being abused or killed.

[Mooks]

You know what I think is much more dangerous and in need of urgent reform? Legislative abuses. They are much more common, have much worse consequences often times, and they are barely ever touched. You are not gonna root out the bad jackets until you go after the suits. Go for the guys up top who allow this type of corruption and replace them with honest, diligent people. 99% of police I believe are decent people, and a lot of police abuses are caused by repeat offenders who should have been fired the first time. The reason that they weren't is because of the corrupt supervisors and such. Go after the suits, and the jackets will tow the line. Go after the jackets (who are mostly innocent, dutiful people who put their lives on the line for you and I) and all you will do is scare away good people from the profession, and only opportunists who know hirer ups will join, and nothing will be done about them. The good cops will feel defensive, feel like they are being treated unfairly, and their morale will be considerably lowered. When police exercise too great an amount of caution, innocent people can die. That is what will happen when you attack the police men and women themselves (and you know what? Most of them don't deserve such accusations as are usually leveled against the force as a whole (except Stateys, they deserve it all :beam:)).

Go after all the :daisy: corrupt bureaucrats (which there are a lot more of) and you will take care of most of the problems with police abuses AND get rid of so much of the financial corruption that is crippling many municipalities. (My county comes to mind *cough*) And you know what? I bet that abuses AGAINST cops are a LOT more common than abuses by cops against civs. Why is no one crying about all the violence done to police? What, are they not human beings? Is it irrelevant?

Exactly what bureaucrats are you talking about? Are you talking about the Police Chiefs or what?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Vuk; we have laws against assaulting people, including the police. When the police are assaulted, or abused, the people who did it are prosecuted. Often much more than if they had abused someone who wasn't a cop. The legal system gets into gear and the abuser is held to account for their actions.

The damnable thing about all the abuse by cops is that they are so very rarely held to account if they break the law and abuse people. That's my biggest problem, and why police abuses are so terrible; they are not punished. By the virtue of their position and their fellows, they do not have to answer for their crimes; they are above the law.


The reason that they weren't is because of the corrupt supervisors and such. Go after the suits, and the jackets will tow the line. Go after the jackets (who are mostly innocent, dutiful people who put their lives on the line for you and I) and all you will do is scare away good people from the profession, and only opportunists who know hirer ups will join, and nothing will be done about them.

Sorry, but it certainly is not just supervisors. All levels are complicit in not reporting abuse. Rank and file cops who cover up for abusers should be hunted down with the abusers. Doing so will result in less power-tripping scumbags joining, and less covering up for cops who abuse their power.


But this case above, well, he was speeding, 100mph is not scary but the guy who makes the video sounds like some weird sadist as well, trying to harass the cop for it and enjoying that the cop doesn't know what to do. that the cop does not beat or arrest him actually speaks for the cop if you ask me.

Ya, the guy who made the video is no saint. The cynic in me says the cop didn't arrest him because he was too inexperienced and alone.

Another, not funny, video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtgRAr4wnFQ

More cops acting like rabid dogs when they come upon a suspect who has gone prone and spread eagle on the ground.

And, of course, the police union says the kick was justified as a "distraction blow" (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/05/the-kick-deliver-by-an-el-monte-police-officer-to-the-head-of-a-car-chase-suspect-laying-on-the-ground-at-the-ending-of-a-tel.html);


The kick to the head delivered by an El Monte police officer to a car-chase suspect lying on the ground at the end of a televised high-speed pursuit was a legally justified “distraction blow," an attorney for the police union said today.

Dieter Dammeier, attorney for the El Monte Police Officers Assn, said the officer acted within his training and department policy when he delivered the kick.

“Unfortunately these things never look good on video. Sometimes officers have to use force when dealing with bad guys,” said Dammeier. “The officer initially came upon the suspect alone. The suspect hadn’t been searched and was a parolee and a gang member. The individual officer saw some movement. He feared the parolee might have a weapon or be about to get up. So the officer did what is known as a distraction blow. It wasn’t designed to hurt the man, just distract him."

El Monte officers, he said “are trained to deliver a distraction blow to stop a [suspect] doing what they planning on doing.”

CR

[Meneldil]

Ridiculous.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I knew it!

Tough-talking Crazy Rabbit chickens out (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D35uQCtr4EY&feature=related) when law enforcement uses excessive force.

Cowardly Rabbit. :no:

[Meneldil]

:daisy:, les poulets :laugh4:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Oklahoma Highway Patrol stops an ambulance (http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0509/626636.html) on the way to the hospital after the ambulance didn't out of the way of a HWP car that was coming up behind it. The trooper apparently thought he had gotten flipped off as he passed. Apparently the troopers felt the need to demonstrate what big manly men they are, albeit with amazingly petty grievances. So they pulled over the ambulance, without one care to the patient except to assert their authority and bully unarmed men. To top it off, the rageaholic troopers actually choked one of the EMTs.

Be sure to watch the video and read the EMT's statements.

EDIT: In Louisiana, (http://www.wwltv.com/topstories/stories/wwl052609cbmonitor.1db943ac.html) the Fraternal Order of Police supports a bill that won't let the public see the vast majority of officer misconduct records.

CR

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

A cop was raided by his own force's SWAT team. (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lapd-harass28-2009may28,0,2018022,full.story) Of course, they found nothing and it possibly came from departmental squabbles.



The phone in his upstairs bedroom woke him from a dead sleep at 4 a.m. His wife was away visiting her family, and their two small children slept down the hall. The voice on the line identified himself as a lieutenant with the LAPD's elite SWAT unit. The house, he told Franklin, was surrounded. Peering out of the bedroom window, Franklin saw it was no joke: a knot of heavily armed officers were pressed up against the house. Snipers were perched on the neighbor's porch. A helicopter hovered overhead.

Franklin had no idea what his own Police Department would want with him. He asked for time to roust his 7-year-old daughter and 3-year-old son. He had 20 minutes, the SWAT officer said, or police would come in and get him.

Before Franklin pulled open the front door and walked into the blinding glare of spotlights, he put himself between his little boy and girl and took their hands in his own. "I wanted the police to be able to see our hands," he recalls. "I didn't want to give them any reason to shoot us."

[Louis VI the Fat]

Dernière modification par Banquo's Ghost 05-25-2009 à 13:10. Motif: The rules apply in French too. I copied and pasted this to my hard drive. ~;)

It is an implicit acknowledgement by the mods that French is an official language of the Backroom. When the rules apply in French, then French applies to the rules. Furthermore, by Common Law practice, your decision grants explicit legal status.

All of which is entirely superfluos of course, since French is already a permissable .org language. Just a safeguard against any possible future powergrabs - always keep a close watch on the perfidious Anglos.

:beam:

[Crazed Rabbit]

A cop was raided by his own force's SWAT team. (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lapd-harass28-2009may28,0,2018022,full.story) Of course, they found nothing and it possibly came from departmental squabbles.

It definitely did:

Franklin is a tightly wound man. When he describes the LAPD's six-hour search of his house, his jaw clenches and he seethes words like "degrading" and "humiliating." He recalls how he was made to sit in the back of a police van with his children, guarded by someone wearing the same uniform he wore each day. He remembers how neighbors gathered to gawk as drug-sniffing dogs were led inside, dogs that left paw prints on his bed. He talks about the quiet fury he felt as his demands for an explanation were ignored.
...
If the explanation of officers who oversaw the search is to be believed, the incident was an unfortunate mistake born of honest police work. However, Franklin, in a lawsuit and interviews, has alleged that the search was the culmination of a campaign of retaliation orchestrated by his supervisors, with whom he had feuded.

Over the course of a year, LAPD officials reviewed Franklin's accusations and dismissed them as unfounded. So, Franklin sued the officers who ordered the search, as well as the LAPD, for violating his civil rights, inflicting emotional distress, and negligence. Late last year, 12 jurors listened to what Franklin had to say and decided the officers should never have disturbed his life on Woodlawn. Corners were cut, they decided, lies were told.

After nearly five years in the Marine Corps, Franklin joined the LAPD in 1984 and established himself as a capable, if unremarkable, cop. His personnel file is full of positive performance evaluations, noting his work ethic and unbending adherence to department policies. Franklin was rarely disciplined -- his most serious misstep coming when he berated a patrol officer who stopped him for a traffic violation.

But he is not a cop's cop. By his own account, Franklin has reported several partners for perceived abuses, even telling a suspect once that his partner had unlawfully arrested him. In 2000, after being promoted to sergeant, Franklin was assigned to the department's Pacific Division on the Westside, where he solidified his reputation as a strict, by-the-book supervisor and a rabble-rouser who didn't shy away from criticizing other cops. More than once, he says, he raised eyebrows when he ordered officers to release suspects taken into custody under dubious circumstances.

Mistake my :daisy:. It was retaliation against an honest man, a good cop.

In other news, manly cops beat, mace, and hit a 13 year old kid with a club. (http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/courier_times/courier_times_news_details/article/28/2009/may/29/moms-complain-of-excessive-force-by-police.html)

In more news, they sic a dog on a handcuffed suspect. (http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/news_details/article/28/2009/may/29/excessive-force-lawsuit-costs-township-25k.html)

One police chief has to tell his cops to stop whining about how a convicted wife-hitting cop was fired. (http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20090529/TOPSTORIES/905289897/1042/NEWS01?Title=Blake-urges-officers-to-move-on)

Cop lies, saying a DUI suspect was behind the wheel of a car, when video shows he was in the back seat. (http://www.gazette.net/stories/05282009/montnew172931_32539.shtml)

CR

[Major Robert Dump]

Haven't been able to contribute to this thread because of real life issues, one of which -- incidentally -- involves my less-than-savory interaction with the Comanche County sheriffs department outside of Ft Sill in the horribly violent city of Lawton, Oklahoma. I have some pictures to post but left the film at the parents, and my cell phone recordings are fairly low quality which prompted me to go buy a 600 dollar phone.

I'll post more info later as things slow down for me, but lets just say that I pulled over on a country road to help a little old man with his car trouble, he pulled a gun on me and I was shot. I got away, and so did he, and the sheriffs department accused me of everything except what I said happened, including: drug deal gone bad, suicide attempt, shot myself while cleaning my gun, shot myself to get out of army.....so i stopped cooperating and the case was handed over to military CID, who then informed me that the sheriffs dept had acted unprofessionally and negligently, and I retained a civilian attorney to tell the sheriff to back off before I hit them with a defamation lawsuit.

I'm fine, BTW, bullet entered above left hip, traveled about 4 inches and made a right turn and exited through my love handle. Entry wound bigger than exit wound, caliber unknown, hurt like hell and I didn't even go on profile.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Haven't been able to contribute to this thread because of real life issues, one of which -- incidentally -- involves my less-than-savory interaction with the Comanche County sheriffs department outside of Ft Sill in the horribly violent city of Lawton, Oklahoma. I have some pictures to post but left the film at the parents, and my cell phone recordings are fairly low quality which prompted me to go buy a 600 dollar phone.

I'll post more info later as things slow down for me, but lets just say that I pulled over on a country road to help a little old man with his car trouble, he pulled a gun on me and I was shot. I got away, and so did he, and the sheriffs department accused me of everything except what I said happened, including: drug deal gone bad, suicide attempt, shot myself while cleaning my gun, shot myself to get out of army.....so i stopped cooperating and the case was handed over to military CID, who then informed me that the sheriffs dept had acted unprofessionally and negligently, and I retained a civilian attorney to tell the sheriff to back off before I hit them with a defamation lawsuit.

I'm fine, BTW, bullet entered above left hip, traveled about 4 inches and made a right turn and exited through my love handle. Entry wound bigger than exit wound, caliber unknown, hurt like hell and I didn't even go on profile.

:shocked2:

I'm glad to hear you are recovering, MRD. Your story is astonishing, but in the context of this thread, not surprising. I just don't understand why the policemen would distrust a serving soldier so meanly.

Take care - we always miss you. :bow:

[Samurai Waki]

Jesus, MRD I'm glad you're relatively okay!

I won't make any comments in reference to your case, suffice it to say, I hope you're able to shove every inch of you're black polished combat boots up this guys :daisy:

Get well! and have a speedy recovery!

[Crazed Rabbit]

Haven't been able to contribute to this thread because of real life issues, one of which -- incidentally -- involves my less-than-savory interaction with the Comanche County sheriffs department outside of Ft Sill in the horribly violent city of Lawton, Oklahoma. I have some pictures to post but left the film at the parents, and my cell phone recordings are fairly low quality which prompted me to go buy a 600 dollar phone.

I'll post more info later as things slow down for me, but lets just say that I pulled over on a country road to help a little old man with his car trouble, he pulled a gun on me and I was shot. I got away, and so did he, and the sheriffs department accused me of everything except what I said happened, including: drug deal gone bad, suicide attempt, shot myself while cleaning my gun, shot myself to get out of army.....so i stopped cooperating and the case was handed over to military CID, who then informed me that the sheriffs dept had acted unprofessionally and negligently, and I retained a civilian attorney to tell the sheriff to back off before I hit them with a defamation lawsuit.

I'm fine, BTW, bullet entered above left hip, traveled about 4 inches and made a right turn and exited through my love handle. Entry wound bigger than exit wound, caliber unknown, hurt like hell and I didn't even go on profile.

:dizzy2: Wow! Glad you're alright.

In Maine, the police raid a fundraiser and seize money intended for a charity (http://ow.ly/a3Hw) that gave food to the needy - because the fundraiser was a poker game, which apparently required a license.

BUXTON, Maine -- Buxton police raided a building where people were trying to raise money to give free food to the needy.

It happened at the Narragansett Pythian Sisters Temple on Route 22 where people were playing the card game Texas Hold'em to benefit the Buxton Community Food Co-op.

But state police said the game was illegal.

That's because whenever a gambling tournament is held to raise money for a group and takes place at its headquarters, a permit is needed and the co-op didn't have one.

So, state police seized cards, poker chips and $500 in cash -- money the food co-op desperately needed.

A member of the co-op, Joann Groder, said she is very, very sad about what happened.

"We've had a lot of people who come here -- people who are out of work, people who have cancer. We have a lot of people," said Groder.

But state police are standing by what was done.

"In this particular case they weren't licensed, and they knew they weren't and they knew they needed one," said Lt. David Bowler of the Maine State Police.

The money from the co-op's card game is currently being held as evidence while the investigation continues.

Groder now plans to hold a pot roast dinner to raise money for the co-op.

A lawsuit alleges pervasive racism and sexism at a police department in California. (http://www.contracostatimes.com/california/ci_12480143?nclick_check=1)

Five Burbank police officers have filed a discrimination lawsuit alleging racial prejudice, sexual harassment and retaliation when they complained about the mistreatment.

The officers' 63-page complaint filed in Los Angeles Superior Court Thursday seeks damages that their lawyer says could cost the city as much as $25 million.

The plaintiffs are Burbank Lt. Omar Rodriguez and officers Cindy Guillen-Gomez, Steve Karagiosian, Elfego Rodriguez and Jamal Childs.

Defendants in the case are the city of Burbank, the police department, the chief of police and a number of individual police officers.

Burbank City Attorney Dennis Barlow did not immediately return a call for comment.

The plaintiffs' attorney, Solomon E. Gresen, said the officers were the targets of "unbelievably offensive racial, sexual and ethnic slurs."

"It has become so pervasive that it has long been a department practice," said Solomon. "The BPD is run as an insider's club where if you aren't white, male and heterosexual, you had better keep your mouth shut and play along with the bigots or suffer the consequences."

Lt. Rodriguez, a 21-year member of the force, alleges to have been a victim over his time on the force to offensive racial, ethnic and sexual preference slurs.

Rodriguez also alleges to have been placed on administrative leave April 15 after complaining about retaliatory action and that he was demoted the next day and reassigned to the
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patrol division.

Similar complaints of racial, ethnic and sexual harassment were made by Cindy Guillen-Gomez, a 9-year veteran.

Karagiosian and Elfego Rodriguez allege to have been removed from an elite special enforcement division and then excluded from the formation of its successor because of their respective Armenian and Latino heritages.

Childs, an African-American, alleges to have had similar experiences of discrimination and to have observed and reported numerous instances of racial and gender-based bias, harassment and retaliation.

Cop in San Bernnardino steals valuables from the people he arrests. (http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_N_ndeputy29.4de131e.html)
The San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department is investigating one of its deputies on allegations he took wallets, jewelry and other items from people he arrested.

Last week, detectives searched Deputy Ricker Hunt's Apple Valley home, his truck and his locker at the sheriff's Adelanto Detention Center, where he is assigned, according to an affidavit returned Thursday to San Bernardino County Superior Court.

Found were a baggie with metal jewelry, a box with coins and a bracelet, a digital camera, credit cards and identification belonging to two men cited or arrested last August, wrote sheriff's Sgt. Chris Fisher.

In Fisher's affidavit seeking the warrant, the same items are described as previously seen at the deputy's home after he cleaned out his desk when reassigned from the Apple Valley station to the jail.

Hunt, 49, could not be reached for comment Thursday. The 24-year department veteran has not been arrested or charged.

Sgt. Dave Phelps, a sheriff's spokesman, said Hunt is not currently working but did not release any further information.

According to the affidavit, the sheriff's probe began May 19 after officials received a tip that Hunt was in possession of property belonging to people he contacted on patrol in Apple Valley.

In September 2008, someone found a wallet in Hunt's home that belonged to a 28-year-old man he arrested eight months prior on suspicion of transporting marijuana and child endangerment, Fisher wrote. The wallet contained the man's Social Security card and credit cards.

When someone confronted Hunt, he said, "He might have obtained (the) wallet accidentally," Fisher wrote. It was returned to the sheriff's property room, and there is no evidence any of the information or credit cards were ever used.

Earlier this year, a different wallet and identification holder were found at Hunt's home, Fisher wrote. With them were the bag of men's and women's jewelry, silver coins and a Canon PowerShot digital camera.

Hunt arrested one of the men pictured on an identification card in his possession last August on suspicion of drunken driving, Fisher wrote. The vehicle was towed after the arrest, and the man told Fisher he didn't report it because he assumed someone from the tow yard had stolen the items.

The other man whose wallet was recovered had been cited in Apple Valley for speeding, also last August, records show.
Two deputies beat handcuffed teens - and are then fired and arrested! (http://www.wwl.com/pages/4498234.php?)
wo Jefferson parish sheriff's deputies have been arrested and kicked off the force after brutality allegations. A couple of teenagers say the deputies beat them up in Marrero.

According to the teens, they were playing paintball at an abandoned Marrero apartment complex last weekend when approached by deputies Cornell Farlin and Shawn Henry. The teens claimed Farlin and Henry handcuffed them, and then began punching and kicking them, even using their police batons, before releasing them with a summons.

"I think the message here is the quickness in which we responded to the complaint, that we take this very seriously," said Sheriff Newell Normand at a news conference Friday. "This type of conduct by our officers will not be tolerated."

Sheriff Normand said the two accusers also said there were other deputies present during the beating. The sheriff says the investigation continues.

CR

[Husar]

MRD, glad you're okay, or on the way to being okay again. :sweatdrop:

[Crazed Rabbit]

More women in Philadelphia speak out about the cop who sexually assaulted them (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/46605117.html). He hasn't been charged with a crime.

CR

[Crazed Rabbit]

A Texas cop tasers a 72 year old (http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner~y2009m6d2-Texas-cop-Tasers-greatgrandmother) great grandmother because she refused to sign a speeding ticket she received (which may not be against the law anyway).


A traffic stop for speeding in Travis County, Texas, led to the Tasering of a 72-year-old great-grandmother by a deputy. Feisty Kathryn Winkfein apparently so frightened the law-enforcement officer when she "used some profanity" and "got violent" that he felt it necessary to subdue her with a potentially dangerous jolt of electricity.

Winkfein was reportedly doing 60 in a construction zone where the posted speed limit was 45 when she was pulled over. She was ticketed but declined to sign the ticket, leading the police officer to place her under arrest lest civilization collapse for want of the surrender of a penny's worth of ink.

At this point, the stories diverge. According to Precinct 3 Constable Richard McCain, Winkfein cursed and refused to cooperate. She says nothing of the sort occurred. "I wasn't argumentative, I was not combative. This is a lie," the woman told a news reporter for Fox 7.

Either way, it's difficult to see how the issuance of a speeding ticket to an elderly woman devolved to the point where a grown, trained law-enforcement officer could be considered justified in subjecting the speeder to an electric jolt intended to disrupt her nervous system -- no matter what command of profanity she displayed.

Given that the speeding ticket had already been issued, it's also difficult to understand what purpose was served by prolonging the encounter and demanding a signature. A similar incident in Utah in 2007 between a state trooper and a motorist also resulted in a Tasering after the driver declined to sign a speeding ticket. In that case, the officer escalated the matter to a violent conclusion even though Utah law doesn't actually require a signature. Texas law apparently follows the same reasoning, considering the signature merely a promise to appear in court, not a necessity for the validity of the ticket itself.

...

After being Tasered along the road for failing to put pen to paper, Kathryn Winkfein was taken to jail and booked for resisting arrest and detention. Not surprisingly, she's hired a lawyer.

A different cop (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/local/story/759907.html)at a traffic accident demands a photographer not shoot the accident, then knocks his camera to the ground, causing $1000 worth of damage and handcuffs him when he doesn't obey. An hour later he's released without charge.
The incident occurred near midnight Friday. Travis Washington, a photographer with Channel 3 for about three years, was sent to the scene of a fatal accident on Interstate 485 near Beatties Ford Road.

Washington and a photographer for WSOC (Channel 9) were shooting video of the scene from an embankment overhead, next to the Beatties Ford Road bridge, said Dennis Milligan, news director of Channel 3.

“A couple CMPD officers started shouting orders at him to stop shooting. And they approached and continued to shout orders to take his camera down.

“He felt like he was doing his job. He asked them why. A female officer stepped up and started to grab the camera out of his hands, and it fell to the ground. She told him, ‘Because you're not showing proper respect to people in the accident.'”

Washington was then handcuffed and put into a cruiser, where he was held for about an hour before being released without charges. He was treated afterward at an emergency room for a minor back injury related to the confrontation, said Milligan, who went to the scene after the station's assignment desk alerted him.

Police took no action against the Channel 9 photographer.

Milligan said the dialogue during the confrontation was recorded by the camera, but he wouldn't release a copy because it hadn't yet been made available to investigators.

Police declined Tuesday to give an account of the incident.

“It would be inappropriate for us to comment right now because there's an internal affairs investigation,” said spokesman Rob Tufano.

Washington is on vacation this week and couldn't be reached for comment.

“We have a difficult situation here because it's not up to the Police Department or any police officer to decide what a newspaper or television station or radio station gathers at the scene of an accident,” Milligan said. He said the photographers were not creating a safety hazard to motorists or lingering close to the area where emergency crews were working.

“I'm hoping this is a limited situation with a police officer who, for whatever reason, had a lapse of judgment. We're concerned about our First Amendment rights being compromised in this situation.”

Robin Whitmeyer, Channel 9 news director, said it's common for officers to tell photographers to back up if they're too close to a scene, but she'd never heard of police ordering cameras shut off. “We control the content, and they control the scene,” she said. “It's not their choice to tell us what to shoot or not to shoot.”

Apparently they think they are the law.

CR

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, here's another doozy out of New Jersey, complete with video:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/06/jersey.police.beating/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
Some cop just attacks, unprovoked, a man standing on a street corner. He gets out of his car and throws the man to the ground, whaling on him with a metal baton.

Surveillance video shows a Passaic, New Jersey, police officer beating a 49-year-old man standing idly on a street corner.
The beating was captured on surveillance cameras outside Lawrence's Grill and Bar in Passaic, New Jersey.

The beating was captured on surveillance cameras outside Lawrence's Grill and Bar in Passaic, New Jersey.

Surveillance tape from Lawrence's Grill and Bar in Passaic on May 29 shows a police car pull up to Ronnie Holloway, who is standing still on the curb outside the restaurant. After a few moments Holloway zips up his sweatshirt -- because the female officer in the car instructed him to do so, Holloway said.

At that point, the other officer in the vehicle, Joseph R. Rios III, exits the car, grabs Holloway and slams him onto the hood of the police car. He then pummels Holloway with his fist and baton.

Holloway said he had exchanged no words with the officer before he pounced on him.

After the incident, police locked Holloway in a holding cell for the night and did not provide treatment for his injuries, according to Holloway's attorney, Nancy Lucianna. Those injuries included a torn cornea and extensive bruising to the left side of his body, she said.
...
The Passaic Police have filed three charges against Holloway: resisting arrest, disorderly conduct and wandering for the purpose of obtaining controlled dangerous substances.

You have to wonder just what the **** is wrong with these cops. The cop attacked a peaceful man for no reason and then they tried to ruin his life further by lying and saying he committed a crime.

CR

[Crazed Rabbit]

Two grown men, wait I'm sorry - not men but cowards with guns, childish cowards in adult bodies, shoot a five pound Chihuahua. (http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Family-Outraged-After-Officer-Shoots-Their-Dog/s8GbE4dftEigqCUBVDkUzA.cspx)

And then there's this one, where cops shot a barking dog. (http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/article1001160.ece)

And this one, where cops shot a seven month old puppy (http://vindy.com/news/2009/apr/14/youngstown-police-shoot-8216aggressive8217/) - the cops were 'in fear for their lives'.

In Alabama, more cowardly men - amazing how cops practically wet their pants when they see dogs, and need to open fire to save themselves from any dog they see - shoot unprovoked at dogs, (http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/metro.ssf?/base/news/124393052594000.xml&coll=2) then arrest the owners for "disorderly conduct" because the owners were cursing at the cos and wouldn't shut up when told.

Here, cops order a man to release a dog on a leash, (http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/46870377.html?index=1&c=y) saying they'll tase him if he doesn't, and refuse to let him tie off the leash to something. He finally drops the leash, the cops rush him, the dog bites a cop, and the cops shoot it. Then the cops lie profusely about the whole thing.

Here, an unleashed K9 cop dog gets in a fight with a leashed dog. Cops shoot the leashed dog. (http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/42882177.html#)

These cops are trigger happy and without regard for the rights of others. None, of course, received any punishment.

CR

[Fragony]

Another one for your collection CR, after tasering didn't calm down the chihuaha he saw no other option then shooting it. Took 3 bullets before the threat was neutralized.

http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/raar/2009/06/politie_schiet_bijtende_chihua.html

[Major Robert Dump]

I love this thread. It will never die. Comanche County Sheriffs Department can rot in hell. Parents will bring my bullet hole pics in july when they come visit me in Virginia and I will post the transcript of my "interview" with Deputy Dawg. Will prove to be a laugh riot, this I promise.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Sad news from Yonkers, NY.

In 2007, a woman's niece was hit with a beer bottle in a car. Cops arrived, and the woman was distraught. But she didn't assault officers.

Wayne Simoes, thug-with-badge, decided she needed to be subdued, so he walked over, picked her up and threw her onto the ground, breaking her jaw and doing this to her face:
GRAPHIC IMAGE!
https://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5097/irmamarquezofficerwayne.jpg

His excuse was that he slipped on the floor. Watch the video (https://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5097/irmamarquezofficerwayne.jpg) and see for yourself.

The cop was acquitted of violating the woman's civil rights. (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7690702) Fellow cops applauded him, his lawyer, and the jurors.

And a 2000 study on the Police Code of Silence: http://www.aele.org/loscode2000.html


Conclusions

1. The police Code of Silence exists.

2. Some form of a Code of Silence will develop among officers in virtually any agency.

3. The American criminal justice system and in particular law enforcement, has been negligent by not attempting to resolve the negative impact the code.

4. The Code of Silence breeds, supports and nourishes other forms of unethical actions.

5. Because the code is an essentially natural occurrence, attempts to stop it all together will be futile.

6. The Code of Silence in law enforcement is more dominant and influential than most other vocations or professions.

7. It is virtually impossible for a law enforcement agency to effectively determine how extensively the Code of Silence exists within its own organization.

8. It is now possible to identify the specific assignments and units that are most at risk to the harmful aspects of the Code of Silence.

9. Whistle-blowers are generally not supported by the administration of law enforcement agencies.

10. The use of state-of-the-art ethical dilemma simulation training can be an effective way to prevent the code’s injurious ramifications.
Out of 55 total conclusions.
CR

[Megas Methuselah]

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/Regina+woman+bothered+after+police+mows+down+ducklngs+Ring+Road/1678272/story.html

Here's another one, Rabbit. Guy was probably late for his donuts and coffee or something. Ran over a bunch of ducks.

[Husar]

I agree with the woman, quite frankly he should lose his job over this at the very least, I mean here I thought policemen were meant to rescue little kittens out of trees and close roads for little ducklings to walk across safely and that :daisy: just rolls over them. :thumbsdown:

[Crazed Rabbit]

A cop pulls his gun out at McDonald's (http://cbs4denver.com/investigates/denver.police.suspension.2.1049330.html) because he thinks his order is taking to long.

He's been placed on paid leave. Any normal person would have been arrested. Of course, normal people wouldn't point a firearm at somebody because they thought the food was slow - what kind of person would do that?

CR

[Fragony]

freaky indeed

[Lord Winter]

A cop pulls his gun out at McDonald's (http://cbs4denver.com/investigates/denver.police.suspension.2.1049330.html) because he thinks his order is taking to long.

He's been placed on paid leave. Any normal person would have been arrested. Of course, normal people wouldn't point a firearm at somebody because they thought the food was slow - what kind of person would do that?

CR



A spokesperson for the Aurora Police Department said they plan to present the case -- now classified as a felony menacing incident -- to the Arapahoe County District Attorney's Office Thursday for possible filing of criminal charges.


It's not like they're doing nothing.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Yes. But a normal person wouldn't get such nice treatment.

Anyway, here's an update (http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/06/cop-to-be-sentenced-for-beating-bartender.html?track=email-alert-breakingnews) on a Chicago cop who viciously assaulted a small female bartender off duty, after assaulting two other people earlier that same day;

A Chicago police officer avoided jail time today for pummeling a woman who was tending bar, even though prosecutors produced a previously unseen video showing him beating someone else at the bar hours earlier.

Anthony Abbate was sentenced to two years probation for beating Karolina Obrycka in February of 2007. He could have gotten up to five years for the attack, which was captured by the bar's security camera and shown around the world.

Judge John Fleming said he decided against jail because he did not believe the crime was serious enough and throwing Abbate behind bars would not be a deterrent to others.

Yup. No time in jail. Not one single day for this 'man' who still has his job as a police officer.

Some testimony from the trial:

In testifying Tuesday, Abbate, who stands 6 foot 1 and weighs more than 250 pounds, contended he retaliated against the bartender, Karolina Obrycka, after she threw him into a shelf, causing him to hit his head. He had stepped behind the bar without permission at Jesse's Short Stop Inn.

"She tried to stop him, and she used reasonable force," Fleming said of Obrycka, who is 5 foot 3 and 125 pounds.
...
Abbate slammed Obrycka against the bar, then violently threw her to the floor. He repeatedly kicked and punched her on the floor as she struggled to evade the blows. He held her by one hand as he took full swings at her head with his right fist.

Abbate testified he felt threatened when he fell into the wall.

"Did you feel in danger when she grabbed you from behind, body-slammed you up against the wall and nearly took you to the floor?" asked his lawyer, Peter Hickey.

"Yes," Abbate said.

"Were you going to stand there and let her hurt you some more?" Hickey asked.

"No," Abbate replied.

Later on cross-examination, Abbate had to withstand a withering, sarcasm-tinged series of questions from Assistant State's Atty. LuAnn Snow.

"So you felt you were in physical danger from Karolina Obrycka?" Snow asked.

"Yes, when she threw me against the wall and I hit my head," Abbate huffed.


CR

[Crazed Rabbit]

Another dog shot, inside a fenced property, and more lies from the cops. (http://www.timesnews.net/article.php?id=9014762)


According to Deputy Chief David Quillin, the incident occurred about 7 p.m. while police were chasing two suspects in the area of Carrington Court.

Witnesses have told the Times-News that police told children playing outside to get back, as they were looking for two black males suspected of breaking into a nearby home.

Quillin told the Times-News that Officer Darrell Johnson stepped over a low wire fence on Derwood Court as he was running after a suspect. He then “encountered three pit bull/bulldog-type dogs.”

“Those dogs charged at him in a very aggressive manner,” Quillin said.

“(Johnson) tried to retreat, but he did not have that opportunity. They continued to charge at him in a very aggressive manner, and that’s when he was forced to fire. As a result, one of the pit bulls died.”
...

But this — among other points — is where residents of the apartment complex who witnessed Sunday’s incident disagree.

Richie Hammonds, 1005 Derwood Court, No. 4, owned “Mace” for three years, since he was a puppy. Contrary to police, he says there were not three dogs in his back yard when Officer Johnson stepped over his fence, but only Mace. His other two dogs remained on the back porch.

And while Johnson’s report on the incident states he traveled about 20 feet into the fenced-in yard when he encountered the dogs, three witnesses have told the Times-News that he only placed one foot over the fence.

“He put his foot back outside the fence, pulled out his weapon and shot him,” said Jonathan Suit, Hammonds’ neighbor. “There wasn’t a noise made, the dog wasn’t running. It was just walking toward him.”

“The officer stepped over the fence,” said Amanda Bellamy, another of Hammonds’ neighbors. “Mace came out of his doghouse, was walking up to (Johnson) to smell him. The officer stepped back out of the fence, pulled his weapon and shot that dog. That dog would not have come out of that fence. It’s an electric fence. They’re scared to death of it. The dog walked up to him wagging his tail.”

“The dogs smell the juice and stay at least two feet back from it,” Hammonds said. “Mace was 10 feet away when (Officer Johnson) shot him.”

Hammonds claims that after the shooting, Johnson said “I hate pit bulls.”

Bellamy and Suit told the Times-News that Johnson remarked he “didn’t like those damn pit bulls anyway.”

Another point of contention is that police say they were chasing a suspect.

“The cops were supposed to be chasing two black men who just robbed a place, and yet they didn’t even pursue the chase once they shot the dog,” said John Adams, landlord of the apartment complex.

“They weren’t chasing anybody,” said Suit. “They were just looking around. They weren’t after anybody. But to read the paper (police) made it sound like there was a guy in their sights they were running after. That’s not true. I was here; I saw the whole thing.”

Witnesses told the Times-News that police were called to the area to search for two black males. Quillin said the suspect Johnson was chasing was Hammonds’ neighbor, Joe Shupe, 27.

Shupe, a white male, was arrested and charged with resisting and evading arrest.


Shupe, according to the report, claimed “he was running because he was trying to hide from officers and thought there was a warrant out for him.” He was arrested and charged with resisting and evading arrest.

“They said they were chasing after two black guys,” Hammonds said. “They just arrested (Shupe) to make themselves look good.”

Bellamy says Shupe went up the hill behind his apartment where an officer then asked what he was doing.

“(Shupe) come back through his apartment and back on his front porch,” Bellamy said. “I guess they decided they better take somebody to jail. They got him for resisting and evading arrest. He didn’t resist nothing. They didn’t chase him.”

“If he was in pursuit of somebody, and the dog was going to try and bite him, he should have shot the dog and went on after who he was going after instead of standing there,” Hammonds said. “He stood there and said ‘The reason I shot him was because I hate pit bulls.’ That was his exact words. It took everything I had not to hit that guy.”

CR

[Vladimir]

Good. They should have got all three.

[Lemur]

Here's one for you, CR, complete with pictures:

Woman Says Cop Arrested Her, Punched Her, Grabbed Breasts for Carrying Pug in Subway (http://gothamist.com/2009/06/30/woman_says_misogynistic_cop_arreste.php)

Greenpoint resident Chrissie Brodigan says she was riding on the L train between Bedford and First Avenue when her pug, who has health problems, overheated and began vomiting in the tote bag she was carrying him in. As she was leaving the subway station with the dog in her arms, she says a police officer's attempt to issue her a ticket turned ugly, and when she became upset the cop began saying, "If you're going to act like a woman I'm going to treat you like a woman."

According to Brodigan, the arresting officer's name is Witriol (badge number 942838). After seeing a photo, she identified him to us as Joel Witriol, who in 2006 became New York's first Hasidic cop. Brodigan, 32, says Witriol would not accept her explanation that she was carrying the pug because it was sick, and she believes that the disturbed crowd that gathered to witness the arrest only made him angrier. She tells us, "He punched me in the back (there are bruises), he handcuffed me, and in the scuffle grabbed my breasts and pinched them."

Melissa Randazzo, a speech language pathologist who lives in Williamsburg, witnessed the arrest and tells us, "something about it seemed very wrong. The cop's tone seemed really inappropriate and he kept saying things like, 'Are you going to act like a woman?' She tried to walk away, and then he grabbed her and pushed her against the wall outside the turnstile." Randazzo ran up to the street level to call 911 to, as she says, "call the cops" on Witriol, and soon some 20 officers had descended into the Bedford station. They then ordered the witnesses to disperse. Brodigan describes what happened after she was arrested:


They took my pug and he told me he was taking him to the pound where he would be "put down." I was taken to the J stop headquarters. I wasn't allowed to call a lawyer and I was put in a cell with handcuffs on with two other women who spit on me and hit me in the head, because they weren't in handcuffs and I was crying so much it bothered them. I was given 3 tickets: failure to produce ID, disorderly conduct, and failure to have dog in a container. I have a court date in August. I asked for a pen to write the badge numbers down before I left and they refused to give me a pen and covered up their badges. My pug was returned. They had him behind their desks and were playing with him."

The NYPD press office declined to verify any information about the arrest; the spokesman told us that because these are misdemeanor charges, they "usually don't hear anything about that." Brodigan adds that, "So many people saw what happened that I just would really like for everyone to submit complaints, because this man shouldn't be able to do this to women—to anyone."

[Crazed Rabbit]

Good. They should have got all three.

Aww, I hear you can still get into North Korea if you hurry.

Anyway, here's a story (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/27/AR2009062702306.html?hpid=moreheadlines) where a cop pulled a guy out of his car, punched him twice, then threw him to the ground, because he didn't get out of his car fast enough. You can see in the video how he's holding his hands out to not resists as he's thrown down. To top it off, he lied in the police report, saying the driver assaulted him and getting charges filed against him. The prosecutor dropped the charges. The police say the cop's actions were appropriate and the charges should not have been dropped.

This is the same cop who killed an unarmed man in a park. His alleged crime? An open container of alcohol.

And here we have the same cop escalating a stop into a violent situation.

Will he face any charges for lying and blatantly calling an innocent man guilty? Nope! His fellow cops defend him?

Prince George's County police are reviewing the actions of an officer who arrested a motorist on charges of slugging and tackling him during a traffic stop in Hyattsville. A police video of the encounter last year shows the officer yanking the man out of his car, slugging him twice and tackling him.

"Step out of the car now, or I'll have you out of the car," Cpl. Steven Jackson says after the motorist does not comply with three rapid-fire demands to exit the car.

"You yelling, but you have to give me a reason to step out of the car," Shawn M. Leake, 24, replies.

Jackson opens the driver's side door and pulls Leake out of the car. Almost immediately, Jackson makes a fist and slugs Leake in the face, then quickly slugs him again in the face, the video shows. Leake does not hit or appear to try to punch Jackson.

After the second punch, Jackson grabs Leake around his neck and tackles him onto the street, and the two tumble out of camera range.

In a charging document, Jackson wrote that once Leake was out of the car, "he immediately took a combative stance and struck me with a closed fist uppercut to my face." As he tried to arrest Leake, Jackson wrote, "the defendant continued to fight me and even tackled me to the ground into the next lane of oncoming traffic."

County prosecutors dropped charges against Leake in January after defense attorney Douglas I. Malcolm subpoenaed the video of the encounter, which was recorded by a camera mounted in Jackson's police cruiser. Malcolm provided a copy of the video to The Washington Post.
ad_icon

Maj. Andy Ellis, a police spokesman, said that an internal investigation of the incident has been completed and that police supervisors are reviewing the findings. Ellis declined to elaborate but said that, after reviewing the video, he thinks Jackson's actions were appropriate.

"When an officer is involved in a violent incident, he's going to use his best recollection when writing up the statement of charges," Ellis said. "If there's a discrepancy, that should be clarified in court."

Leake could not be located. A union representative said Jackson would not comment.

Jackson's encounter with Leake occurred on the afternoon of May 25, 2008, three months before Jackson, moonlighting as a security guard, fatally shot an unarmed man in Langley Park. Jackson is on paid administrative leave while police and the Justice Department review his actions in the fatal shooting of Manuel de Jesus Espina, 43, on Aug. 16.

Jackson told police that he was attempting to arrest Espina for having an open container of alcohol in a stairwell. Police have said Espina was struggling violently with the officer. Espina's son and two other witnesses have said Espina was not resisting when he was beaten and shot.

...
Ellis said Jackson stopped Leake, who was driving a Cadillac, in part because the vehicle's windows were tinted. The tinted windows made the situation more dangerous for Jackson because he could not see whether other people were in the vehicle, Ellis said. Ellis said Leake had been previously arrested in Anne Arundel County for resisting arrest, a charge that was dropped. Ellis said he did not know whether Jackson knew of that charge at the time of the traffic stop.

Vince Canales, president of the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 89, said that the videotape "clearly shows that the suspect was resisting arrest" and that Jackson's actions were justified.

Ellis and Canales said they think prosecutors should not have dropped charges against Leake. Jackson charged Leake with assaulting a police officer, reckless conduct and failure to obey a lawful order.

In a statement, State's Attorney Glenn F. Ivey (D) said: "After reviewing the videotape and all the evidence, I decided not to prosecute [Leake]. We will continue to review the actions of Corporal Jackson in this and other cases."

Another officer can also be seen in the video. Ellis declined to identify the officer or make him available for an interview.

Ellis noted that Jackson's charging document states that the officer suffered a split lip that required several stitches.

In the video, after Jackson tackles Leake and the two tumble out of camera view, the two engage in a conversation, which is captured by the police video.
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"You hit me in my [expletive] lip," Jackson says.

"I did not hit you, man," Leake replies. "I was trying to get out of the car. My leg was stuck to the thing."

"Dude, it's all on tape," Jackson said.

Leake replies, "You hit yourself when you tried to knock me out."

CR

[Louis VI the Fat]

:balloon2: Rabbit for Preside...wait, CountArach is running too. Arach for Greens, Rabbit for GOP candidate in 2012!

Clean up law enforcement culture and put an end to these bastards. :thumbsdown:

[Hosakawa Tito]

Nah, let's make him the top cop instead.

[Crazed Rabbit]

:balloon2: Rabbit for Preside...wait, CountArach is running too. Arach for Greens, Rabbit for GOP candidate in 2012!

Clean up law enforcement culture and put an end to these bastards. :thumbsdown:

Well CA is in Australia, and I'm in America. So it should work out.


Nah, let's make him the top cop instead.

If only... Down with the blue wall!

CR

[Louis VI the Fat]

Nah, let's make him the top cop instead.
Here's (https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DMJZAr27oXh8) what CrazedRabbit is - in his dreams. :beam:

[Crazed Rabbit]

A Police 'Alcohol Inspection' (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gay-bar-raid6-2009jul06,0,869366.story) at a gay bar in Fort Worth ends up as a raid after officers saw ""sexually explicit movements", naturally assumed the dancing folks were "taunting" them, and began arresting and hitting willy-nilly, giving one patron a brain injury.


Reporting from Fort Worth -- Todd Camp and some friends had just marked the 40th anniversary of the police raid on New York's Stonewall Inn by screening a documentary on the historic gay riots and then heading for drinks at the Rainbow Lounge.

Camp remembered looking across the bar, packed with gay and some straight couples, and marveling how much times had changed since Stonewall -- the spark that ignited the gay rights movement.

And then the police came.
...
Seven people were arrested, and witnesses said one man had his head slammed into a door by law enforcement officials. Chad Gibson, 26, was hospitalized with a brain injury and released Saturday.
...
At the Rainbow Lounge, witnesses said, officers forced their way through the crowd and grew physically and verbally aggressive. They claim the officers arrested people at random, never asked for identification and didn't check blood-alcohol levels on site.

"I've never been so terrified in my life," said Thomas Anable, the bar's accountant. "People were crying. . . . No one knew what to do."
...

"You're touched and advanced in certain ways by people inside the bar; that's offensive," Halstead, the police chief, told Dallas-Fort Worth TV station WFAA. "I'm happy with the restraint used when they were contacted like that."

After at least an hour at the bar, officers had handcuffed about 20 people and put them facedown on the sidewalk beneath a "grand opening" banner, witnesses said.


People advanced in certain ways on the officers! They should be glad they weren't all shot! Which still would have been called "appropriate" and "restrained" by the police anyways.

A cop in Oregon reports unsafe firearms (http://www.kval.com/news/local/48560212.html#idc-container)handling to his bosses and promptly faces retaliation and punishment:

According to the suit, while responding to police calls as part of a K-9 unit, Hagen reported several "negligent and unintended firearms discharges by SWAT team members" that put the SWAT team, other police officers and the public in "extreme danger."

Hagen says he made numerous requests for more training and equipment. Instead, Hagen alleges he was then subjected to an "ongoing campaign of retaliation and harrasment."

In May 2008, he says he was told he would lose his spot on the K-9 team in august 2008. During those months, Hagen claims his supervisor publicized his departure and ridiculed him.

In October 2008, Kerns decided to keep Hagen on the K-9 team.

The next month, Hagen was written up for insubordination. And last May, Hagen was removed from K-9 duty.

Now, he is seeking the extra salary he would received on the K-9 team and several hundred thousand dollars for emotional distress.

CR

[Fragony]

Another one for your collection.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8ba_1246892244

All this should make the discussion on keeping guns more interesting.

[InsaneApache]

Land of the free, home of the brave. :shame:

[Adrian II]

OK, I'm officially shocked, tasered and bedazzled. I mean, police abuse happens in every country, but this sort of thing seems to be more widespread in the US. The examples given remind me of the Russian local police, the Guardia Civil in Franco's Spain, the Moroccan police in the seventies, the local cops in Johannesburg and Cape Town. In short, it is the sort of thing you would expect in a third world country or a (semi) dictatorship. The only exception maybe is France where federal cops take fascism pills for breakfast. The British police, too, seem to be taking those lately.

Have you guys ever been to Germany? They have the best, most helpful, polite and efficient sort of police you can imagine. Totally professional. I have been there a lot and I have never, ever had a bad experience with German coppers. Let's all copy their model, I say.

But what is their model? Different pills for breakfast? Enlighten us, oh eastern brothers.

[Furunculus]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/5764906/China-riots-300-Uighurs-stage-fresh-protest-in-Urumqi.html

1400+ people arrested and 156 dead, go the police!

[CountArach]

Well CA is in Australia, and I'm in America. So it should work out.
Blegh. You can have the job.

[Xiahou]

Another one for your collection.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8ba_1246892244

All this should make the discussion on keeping guns more interesting.

You know, I almost get the impression that the cop knows he screwed up once he comes down from his rage-induced high. His aggressive attitude quickly fades and, although it's difficult to tell with his face blurred, he seems to give several nervous glances at his dashboard cam.

[Fragony]

You know, I almost get the impression that the cop knows he screwed up once he comes down from his rage-induced high. His aggressive attitude quickly fades and, although it's difficult to tell with his face blurred, he seems to give several nervous glances at his dashboard cam.

Could be military.

[Vladimir]

Have you guys ever been to Germany? They have the best, most helpful, polite and efficient sort of police you can imagine. Totally professional. I have been there a lot and I have never, ever had a bad experience with German coppers. Let's all copy their model, I say.

And if you refuse to submit a sample for a blood alcohol test they'll take the sample from your broken nose. They are polite and professional but try acting like a fool on meth and see how they react. Don't mess with the Polzei. :furious3: = :policeman: :smash:

America is a very open society and very critical about government authority. Therefore, you'll see a far greater percentages of abuses here then you'll see from other countries. Many of these stories here are initial reports. Often times these are from the alleged victims. We have a much larger and more diverse culture (set of cultures?) than most (I'd say all) European countries. Think about these facts after you have your initial emotional reaction. You're reminding me of the poor, backward people all around the world who base their perceptions of the country on movies.

[Husar]

Well, it was obvious what was going to happen once the guy refused to show his driver's license just because the cop yelled at him.
Doesn't mean the cop should have tased him but I surely wouldn't argue with an american cop.
What's weird is that the guy has no driver's license at the back of his car, could have been a getaway car or something so maybe the cop was a bit afraid himself at first. Clearly the cop was not the only one doing something wrong although the tasing weighs a bit more than having no license plate + speeding.

[Adrian II]

Oh dear, Vladimir has an America First fit again.

Loosen up mate, this is not about Yurp versus 'Merca. Like I said, if anything French police can be just as bad as those US coppers that ere mentioned. And you're not going to destroy the well-known reputation of the German police with your little anecdote about a bloody nose. Come up with something better and I might listen.

[Vladimir]

Oh dear, Vladimir has an America First fit again.

Loosen up mate, this is not about Yurp versus 'Merca. Like I said, if anything French police can be just as bad as those US coppers that ere mentioned. And you're not going to destroy the well-known reputation of the German police with your little anecdote about a bloody nose. Come up with something better and I might listen.

Yea, I know that sounded a bit too serious. No offense intended, just pointing out some facts about American law enforcement.

Oh, and don't :daisy: with the Polzei.

[Husar]

And you're not going to destroy the well-known reputation of the German police with your little anecdote about a bloody nose. Come up with something better and I might listen.

It's funny that I can't think of anyone I know who was ever mistreated by our police but then I don't know anyone who throws rocks at policemen, maybe that makes a difference.
Most of the stories I hear are about policemen either doing their job or even letting people off lightly.
I guess the same applies to the US although you only hear the negative stories.

I wasn't really aware our police had a reputation for beating people up, if they're rock throwing commies or fascists I do actually support that though and will chant "Go police!" from a safe distance. :sweatdrop:

[Whacker]

Perhaps it's because cops in Deutschland actually behave like honorable professionals and go about their duties in the manner that one entrusted with civil service for the peace should? Perhaps it's because they actually behave like civil servants and generally treat people respectfully, and don't view their authority and power as toys to be wielded for their benefit? Perhaps they have more self control and do not fly into seeing-nothing-but-red rages when they come up against less than compliant people in bad situations, and then beat the living tar out of them and then charge them with everything in the book possible?

I don't know if any of these are 'facts', I'm just saying for arguments' sake.

My impression of law enforcement was positive when I visited Yermany a few years back. We stopped and I asked for directions when we couldn't find a place we were looking for. Guy was very nice, didn't speak much english at all, and was patient enough and friendly with me and my crappy German skills to help point it out on the map and give us the quickest and best way to get there. I don't talk to cops any more in the US, the one or two times in the distant past I've stopped to ask for directions while walking around unfamiliar big cities, dudes acted as if I was a huge idiot and wasting their precious time.

[Xiahou]

And if you refuse to submit a sample for a blood alcohol test they'll take the sample from your broken nose. You know, I heard almost the same thing from a former Army nurse- something along the lines that if you refuse the German police a blood test, they'll just beat a bucket out of you and use that. Sounds lovely. :smash:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Have you guys ever been to Germany? They have the best, most helpful, polite and efficient sort of police you can imagine. Totally professional. I have been there a lot and I have never, ever had a bad experience with German coppers. Let's all copy their model, I say.

But what is their model? Different pills for breakfast?On a hunch, I'd say that the German model is based on an allergy to authoritariansm in general and abuse of power by the state in particular. This permeates German thought. This was very notable in the seventies, when Germany struggled to find an answer to terrorism while limiting state powers to a level thought acceptable.

As a consequence, German law enforcerment is very professional, often humane and friendly.


When I was stopped for an alcohol test in Germany, I called the officer a fascist and used his hesitation to steal his hat and set fire to his moustache. Then I ran off, shouting: 'You want to shoot fleeing people in the back again, you communist!?'



France where federal cops take fascism pills for breakfast.
I posted a devastating study earlier in the thread here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2197008&postcount=121). Disgraceful behaviour.

[Whacker]

When I was stopped for an alcohol test in Germany, I called the officer a fascist and used his hesitation to steal his hat and set fire to his moustache. Then I ran off, shouting: 'You want to shoot fleeing people in the back again, you communist!?'

And people still seriously wonder why the French and Yermans don't get along very well....

:balloon2:

[Husar]

:laugh4: @Louis

And I think I got adrian a bit wrong up there, I got the impression he was talking about a bad reputation, missed his previous post.

But yeah, I'm generally very happy with our police. :beam:

[Adrian II]

And I think I got adrian a bit wrong up there, I got the impression he was talking about a bad reputation, missed his previous post.Sigh... Did you stick with that diet Banquo's Ghost and I recommended?

You didn't, huh? :no:

[InsaneApache]

Is he sarcasm intolerant?

[Husar]

Sigh... Did you stick with that diet Banquo's Ghost and I recommended?

You didn't, huh? :no:

I always jump to the first unread post but sometimes between reading a thread and marking all topics read, there are new posts, so next time I jump to the first unread, I might miss a few. :shrug:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well here's one that really takes the cake: (http://www.wwmt.com/articles/new-1364381-mexico-girl.html)

Policeman hits New Mexican girl in head with Taser

NEW MEXICO (NEWSCHANNEL 3) - A girl from New Mexico is recovering after being hit in the head with a Taser by police.

It all started when the 14 year old got in a fight with her mother. Her mom drove her to the police station looking for help.

When they got there the girl took off running and the police chief later found her in a nearby park.

When he approached the girl the chief says she took off running again. He says he told her to stop, but when she didn't, he hit her with the Taser.

The girl says that's not what happened.

"He didn't try to do anything, he just decided to use the Taser," said the girl.

The Taser hit the girl in the head and back. She fell and a stick got lodged in her face. She had to have surgery and now has staples in her head where the Taser hit her.

The girl's mother says she's outraged and filed a lawsuit against the police department.

The police chief says he defends his actions.

https://img266.imageshack.us/img266/484/10656571bg2.jpg
The chief doesn't regret his actions: (http://www.newschannel10.com/Global/story.asp?S=10656571)

The controversy continues in Tucumcari over the police chief's decision to tase a 14 year old girl.

Chief Roger Hatcher says he had no choice but to tase 14 year old Kailee Martinez after she refused to obey his order to stop running away from him, following a physical fight with her mother.

Hatcher reportedly tased Kailee once in the back and once in the head. She needed 18 staples and six stitches to close the wound.

Kailee claims he tased her for no reason. She says she did not try to run away. Her family hired a lawyer to sue the city and police chief.

Chief Hatcher would not talk to us on camera because this is an on going investigation. He did tell NewsChannel10 he does not regret his actions. He adds he warned her several times and had no other choice when she did not listen to him.

So causing grievous harm to someone who is absolutely no threat, committed no crime whatsoever, is justified? Instead cops seem to think tasers are their personal torture compliance tools.

EDIT: Oh yeah, in Atlanta the police union fights the citizen review board set up after cops killed a grandmother then planted drugs (http://www.sundaypaper.com/Blogs/TheRamageReport/tabid/235/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/4256/Default.aspx) on her corpse.
CR

[Whacker]

This is something that I've struggled with a bit.

On one hand, cops do need the ability to do their jobs within reasonable bounds. Reasonable is obviously up for discussion, and I think that today's cops often go far, far beyond that. CR's last post is a poster child.

On the other hand, people are only human, and a good chunk of modern law completely disregards this fact. Specifically, I am referring to the fight or flight instinctive mechanism that is within us all. Modern law states that running from the cops is a felony (misdemeanor?). This completely disregards the fact that quite often, cops ARE indeed scary, power crazed fools who will use their wall of blue silence and unwavering administrative support to achieve their ends no matter what happens to whom. Without knowing more than what CR just posted, I guarantee you that little girl was scared out of her wits and trying to get away. Those were her fight or flight instincts kicking in hard, she was confronted with something huge and scary, knew she couldn't fight it, and decided to run away, I guarantee it. The fight or flight instinct is very often powerful enough that "reason" cannot countermand it. Because of this, I think that when cops use force to "subdue" someone who is utterly terrified of them, poses no danger (as in they are little girls, normal people, not violent felons, etc) to the public or themselves, it is utterly wrong and the cops should be held fully liable here and the laws should support that. There is a huge, astronomical difference between someone who just robbed a store and shot the clerk, and doesn't want to face justice, vs. your average joe who may be faced with someone supported by the law who had a bad day and could very well hurt or kill them with near impunity.

[Husar]

Absolutely agree with Whacker.

Also someone just sent me this video:

language warning (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNNz5kl4w-A)

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

[InsaneApache]

:laugh4: "If you don't pick the ticket up I'm gonna summon you for littering". :laugh4:

[Meneldil]

I posted a devastating study earlier in the thread here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2197008&postcount=121). Disgraceful behaviour.

Wow. I personally know a policeman. Each time we meet, he tells me of some policemen stories. I find him to be somewhat of an arrogant snob with the people he faces during his job (oddly, he's pretty well educated and a good speaker), but then, when he starts criticizing his coworkers for being to harsh, I'm like 'wtf? Is this happening in France?'

Some movies made by a former policeman were released lately, and they clearly shown that french policemen are quite often not better than the people they're supposed to stop.

[Prodigal]

What I query is why so minimal charges and why only one of them?

Surely an adult beating up a child would get far worse?

And two adults together, even if one doesn't do the swinging but ably aids and abets the other by holding the child down?

Or is there somewhere in the law that states cops can do whatever they want and their superiors will let them off?

15-year-old girl 'assaulted' in jail cell: policeman charged (http://www.smh.com.au/world/15yearold-girl-assaulted-in-jail-cell-policeman-charged-20090302-8lmp.html)

A very good example of this is happening right now in the UK, a teacher (49 years), freaked & open a family sized jar of whoop ass on three 14 year old boysin a classroom as far as I know.

Now I'm not condoning what he did, nor do I know the circumstances, (only heard this on the radio in passing), but he's up on attempted murder. This begs the questions why isn't the officer who pushed, hit, & killed an inoccent pedestrian facing simliar prosecution? He in effect comitted murder, the man is dead as a consequence of his actions.

I really don't know anything about the charges against the policeman in the UK, but I very much doubt he'll ever end up in court.

[Xiahou]

Absolutely agree with Whacker.

Also someone just sent me this video:

language warning (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNNz5kl4w-A)

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:See, that cop was the model of restraint. That needs to be incorporated into training videos for other policemen. Most of the other balls of rage we've profiled in this thread would have probably shot that man to death. :sweatdrop:

Bravo to that officer for being a professional. :2thumbsup:

[Megas Methuselah]

See, that cop was the model of restraint. That needs to be incorporated into training videos for other policemen. Most of the other balls of rage we've profiled in this thread would have probably shot that man to death. :sweatdrop:

Bravo to that officer for being a professional. :2thumbsup:

Lol. There's one cop who has my respect.

Another one was a dude who actually stopped his car to let me cross the street. :inquisitive:

[Fragony]

Fargo 2?

[Lemur]

Not even cute little animals are safe from Jeresey's finest. NJ police use pepper spray on a groundhog. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090725/ap_on_fe_st/us_odd_groundhog_pepper_spray_2)

Police in northern New Jersey needed pepper spray to thwart a groundhog on the attack. Boonton resident Alex Scott told police the rodent chased him when he entered his garage and tried to get his truck. Police Sgt. Mike Danyo and Officer Paul Ryan said the groundhog went on the attack when they arrived.

Police said Danyo tripped and fell. His partner sprayed pepper spray into the groundhog's face, giving the officers time to snare it.

[Zim]

Well, obviously they had to spray it, since NJ cops don't get tasers. :clown:

OC spray is used on dogs fairly often, so I could see a cop defaulting to it when dealing with other animals. Beats having to shoot them.

[Lemur]

You clearly have an anti-groundhog prejudice. You probably hate gophers too, you despicable speciesist. Will no-one stand up for the rights and responsibilities of the noble groundhog?

[Zim]

It's not the groundhog species I have a problem, it's the groundhog culture. Many of my best friends are groundhogs. :clown:

I do have some questions for those officers, though. Did they warn the groundhog? Did they ask it to comply?

[Banquo's Ghost]

You clearly have an anti-groundhog prejudice. You probably hate gophers too, you despicable speciesist. Will no-one stand up for the rights and responsibilities of the noble groundhog?

As I understand it, groundhogs are tough to stop. On their day, they just keep coming back.

[Hosakawa Tito]

The varmint cong are an implacable enemy. https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/hoppy84/152404.jpg

[KukriKhan]

US Officers Down (permanently) 2009 - so far (http://www.odmp.org/year.php).

Just for compare and contrast purposes. 73 so far this year. 2008 = 138. 2007 = 192. 2006 = 156.

RIP fellas. :bow: You still-alive guys: rip out the bad apples amongst you, and don't mind the criticism of the civvies. That criticism is protected by you too. God bless you, and thanks for trying to keep us safe and free.

[Ironside]

US Officers Down (permanently) 2009 - so far (http://www.odmp.org/year.php).

Just for compare and contrast purposes. 73 so far this year. 2008 = 138. 2007 = 192. 2006 = 156.

RIP fellas. :bow: You still-alive guys: rip out the bad apples amongst you, and don't mind the criticism of the civvies. That criticism is protected by you too. God bless you, and thanks for trying to keep us safe and free.

Talk about different cultures. In Sweden 31 cops have been killed on duty, since 1900. Half of them was killed before 1930.

Even if I count 31 that's been killed in duty with hard counting (assult, gunshot vehicular assult), that gives an average on about 70 killed/year in the recent years.

Adding the obviously needed population factor, it's still about 10 times more dangerous to be a cop in the US.

[Husar]

Well, I noticed a lot of them died in traffic, maybe they stopped a car, stood at the side of the road and got hit by a car or something, the ones where a cop was run over on purpose seem to be marked as Vehicular Assault. :shrug:

[HoreTore]

Talk about different cultures. In Sweden 31 cops have been killed on duty, since 1900. Half of them was killed before 1930.

Even if I count 31 that's been killed in duty with hard counting (assult, gunshot vehicular assult), that gives an average on about 70 killed/year in the recent years.

Adding the obviously needed population factor, it's still about 10 times more dangerous to be a cop in the US.

Well look at the bright side, Ironside; you're not lagging far behind when it comes to murdered politicians :smash:

[Vladimir]

Talk about different cultures. In Sweden 31 cops have been killed on duty, since 1900. Half of them was killed before 1930.

Even if I count 31 that's been killed in duty with hard counting (assult, gunshot vehicular assult), that gives an average on about 70 killed/year in the recent years.

Adding the obviously needed population factor, it's still about 10 times more dangerous to be a cop in the US.


Well, I noticed a lot of them died in traffic, maybe they stopped a car, stood at the side of the road and got hit by a car or something, the ones where a cop was run over on purpose seem to be marked as Vehicular Assault. :shrug:

This is something people forget. The biggest cultural difference is the culture of ignorance vs. education. Instead of researching the cause of death, people jump to conclusions.

[Ironside]

Well look at the bright side, Ironside; you're not lagging far behind when it comes to murdered politicians :smash:

True, it's sad when your politicians permanently needs bodyguards. :no: Do you have any idea on what minister posts that's bodyguard protected in Norway?


Well, I noticed a lot of them died in traffic, maybe they stopped a car, stood at the side of the road and got hit by a car or something, the ones where a cop was run over on purpose seem to be marked as Vehicular Assault. :shrug:

That would probably be under the struck by vehicle category. Traffic death are probably due to rapid and aggressive driving when responding to a crime and following CR:s theme, general disrespect of the traffic laws as they won't be punished for it (except when getting themself killed).


This is something people forget. The biggest cultural difference is the culture of ignorance vs. education. Instead of researching the cause of death, people jump to conclusions.

:inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive: Are you demonstrating by example? :inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive:

Did you read the link? Did you notice that I excluded all factors that possibly could be counted otherwise based on the given data?

Anyway, that is certainly part of the explaination on why the US police are so fond of the SWAT teams.

[Lemur]

Who would you rather tase, a groundhog or a non-compliant 72-year-old (http://jonathanturley.org/2009/07/29/video-officer-tasers-72-year-old-great-grandmother-after-a-dare/) great-grandma?

[Husar]

That would probably be under the struck by vehicle category. Traffic death are probably due to rapid and aggressive driving when responding to a crime and following CR:s theme, general disrespect of the traffic laws as they won't be punished for it (except when getting themself killed).

Well, that seems weird, when you see/hear a car with a siren coming here you have to make way, drive to the side of the road and let them pass that is, is that not the case in the US? There's also one saying "Cause of Death: Vehicle pursuit".

[Mooks]

In Sweden does the goverment have the "war on drugs" that they have over here in the States? Id imagine cops mostly die from trying to tango with drug-related people (gangsters, cartels, dealers etc)

[Ironside]

Well, that seems weird, when you see/hear a car with a siren coming here you have to make way, drive to the side of the road and let them pass that is, is that not the case in the US? There's also one saying "Cause of Death: Vehicle pursuit".

And there Vladimir might actually have a point, forgot to compare it with normal traffic death statistics. The US police are simply a large enough group to have those numbers.


In Sweden does the goverment have the "war on drugs" that they have over here in the States? Id imagine cops mostly die from trying to tango with drug-related people (gangsters, cartels, dealers etc)

Nothing that would validate the "war on drugs" title. Drug dealers are certainly arrested, but in general that "war" part is missing. Even organised crime usually don't respond by gunfire during arrest.

[HoreTore]

True, it's sad when your politicians permanently needs bodyguards. :no: Do you have any idea on what minister posts that's bodyguard protected in Norway?

Our PM walks alone from his home to the parliament.

[Zim]

Yes,
in many states you also have to pull into the left lane and/or slow down significantly if a police officer has pulled someone over on the side of the road. Doesn't stop people from plowing down officers or running into their cars (even when that car is off the road, with lights flashing. :inquisitive: ).

Traffic stops are one of the most dangerous things a U.S. law enforcement officer does.

One of my instructors at the academy had responded to a major crash a couple year back. His squad car was completely off the road (as were both cars involved in the crash). Someone still managed to rear end him when he had sat in the passenger seat to write some notes. Broke several bones and he couldn't work for a couple months... :sweatdrop:


Well, that seems weird, when you see/hear a car with a siren coming here you have to make way, drive to the side of the road and let them pass that is, is that not the case in the US? There's also one saying "Cause of Death: Vehicle pursuit".

[Lemur]

Traffic stops are one of the most dangerous things a U.S. law enforcement officer does.
Hmm, my information may be out-of-date, but I was told that "domestic disputes" were the #1 killer of policemen.