Sir Kuma of The Org
08-10-2002, 09:31
Before posting here you may want to read the *friendly newbie forum* topic and the *make it clear where you stand* topic, that we're collected by Cheetah from the temp forum. A lot of point of views and some ideas are expressed there (maybe some will inspire you). So maybe you can pick it up from there.
Here they are:
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Originally posted by KukriKhan:
I've been reading & writing to net BB's for several years now. I prefer the format over chat and IM, because I have some time to think before responding.
Some BB's I've seen have a "Friendly Newby" forum, no flames or teasing allowed, where guys who haven't yet discovered/read the faq's come, get welcomed, and have their (grindingly repetitive) questions answered, or referred to the appropriate forum.
I'm an old guy, with a fair amount of patience...if such a forum were erected, I'd be glad to help out there.
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[This message has been edited by Cheetah (edited 08-05-2002).]
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Originally posted by Dom:
Well, since this forum was created to discuss the .Org this is precisely what I
am going to do.
When I started playing the game, I started visiting this place as well. This
site is THE site for the multiplayer junkies like myself to come
downloadstuff/lookuplinks/ask forhelpwithgame/strategy/etc.
This is all fine. People who are supporting the site do it for free and
provide excellent service. However, they are not getting completely nothing out
of it. It is their hobby (an assumption) and it gives them respect from the
community for all their charitable work (another assumption). There is nothing
wrong with that.
The problem is defining the line as to where that fine line is. Some of the
old vets come here and expect lots of unconditional respect and acceptance of
their views based on their status and their record in the community. Some new
people, on the other hand, come in and do not feel anything of sorts. Some of
them haven't played shoggy yet and they are waiting for MTW to come out.
They didn't have anything done for them by the "community guardians" yet they are expected to get in queue for a piece of respect. The most vivid example of skipping that queue is DD unceremonially barging in here, skipping all over the old guard heads and reflecting rays of enlightenment from his shining armour sitting on the high horse.
Some of the patrons have reasonably accepted his presence and tried to fish out as much good out of it as possible.
The others ones couldn't stand someone whose only "achievement" was to play a game, while their contibutions included years of honest work for the good of the community.
In order to florish .Org has to make clear where it stands. Whether it is a free space for the players to come and go, or is it the place where you get your membership card approved by the old guard after they have considered you pollitically safe.
think about it.
Regards, Ryurik
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Originally posted by Kurando
Originally posted by Dom:
In order to florish .Org has to make clear where it stands. Whether it is a free space for the players to come and go, or is it the place where you get your membership card approved by the old guard after they have considered you pollitically safe.
That's a very key point + first off let me say that I don't blame the new patrons for this, but it's been my experience that the vast majority of problems which do occurr at the dojo tend to happen during the release period of a new component of the Total War universe, (i.e. an expansion pack or whatever), and moreover the problems usually occurr when large influx new patrons all go overboard each trying to make a bigger splash than the next to get status and approval.
One possible solution might be to eliminate all icons and ranks, (except for the Admins and Moderators), or possibly to eliminate the registration dates and post counts from the patrons sidebars.
I worked like a dog to get the 500 competitive wins for my battlefield icon, and I wear it proudly, but I'd happily surrender it if that would help newer patrons feel more at ease and accepted.
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Originally posted by Lap:
I agree with you both. I have been playing STW for two years silently watching this site emerge as the only real good TW site (IMO). I agree with Dom saying that the new players don't have any respect for the veterans. Personally I have just come hear for news and I rarely surf the forums so I don't really have a lot of respect for the veterans. It's hard to really give enough respect to those who you have never known. This of course does not mean you have to act like an ass and disrespect everyone. Of course this will happen regardless. When MTW is released everyone knows that this site will have n00bs running around like mad and theres not much you can do save the "delete post" button.
Kurando is completely right (and honorable seeing as he volunteered to give up his ranks for the good of the site) in saying that ranks are bad. I run a Morrowind site and a couple of forums and I have had the same problems. New players come in and act like morons and jerks. I knew this would happen considering Morrowind just came out so the staff had a discussion about the ranks and icons. I am very glad we voted to have no icons. Icons promote flame wars and post farmers. I have seen it happen on countless forums. People will post "..." or n/t messages or just replies saying "yea", "no", or other one word answers just like that. It makes the forums messy, usually angers the vets and has no useful purpose. I also know that the vets are the responsible ones. They are almost never the cause of the problems. They also are generally humble and are well known enough that they don't need ranks. Everybody already knows them. These are the main reasons why veterans really don't need their ranks and rewards. I suggest you remove all ranks and awards for the good of the site.
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Originally posted by BarryNoDachi:
i know that a lot of ppl have spammed really hard to get their post counts (oops i mean worked) but i think this is something that the admin and staff need to talk about!
kurando it is noble of you to give up your rank and this is very kind gesture and thnx for my icon at the kenchi forums m8
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Clan Kenchikuka
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Originally posted by NinjaKilla:
It's funny you should be talking about this, but in the last couple of months, my whole attitude to the game as changed. It is understandable that some people are respected due to their playing skills, but I feel that the community as a whole puts far too much emphasis on this, rather than on making the community a friendly environment and welcoming in new players.
No disrespect Dom but I therefore treat your question with the same indifference that I treat the: Who's the best; who's a cheater 'discussions'. It's like when Nike started making snowboard equipment... the attitude: whos gives a shit as long as we're having fun, is far more beneficial than any superfluous politics.
Originally posted by Dom:
In order to florish .Org has to make clear where it stands. Whether it is a free space for the players to come and go, or is it the place where you get your membership card approved by the old guard after they have considered you pollitically safe.
LOL, what I'm trying to say is yes I agree, but it's down to the individual patrons to decide. Personally I don't care, people should just do what they want - I aint gonna read the crap. Gee... if only everyone were a enlightened as me.
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Clan Kenchikuka
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Originally posted by Toda Nebuchadnezzar:
You know ever since I joined this community near the beginning I have always liked it. The people were friendly and helpful and I learned that to be friendly and helpful was the way to become accepted in this community.
But to be honest if you look at our situation over the last two years you notice that it is very much like a soap opera. For example Neighbours or Eastenders (UK). Clan wars fire up because of something someone said. Mystery and intrigue is rife because of the conspiracy and infiltration of many clans and so on and so on. Then I realised that in Ancient Japan this is exactly how life was led. And to tell you the truth I kinda liked the way we were heading. Yes we were always helpful and friendly still but these little incidents for me brought us back 500 years to the time where we are all so interested in.(Well I am anyway )
But at the ORG I have always felt welcome. Infact when I first got here everyone said they were glad I had made it here finally, and the same was for every other newbie. Life was good back then.
Now I have been away for a month with exams and so don't know much about this Darkmoor person at all and so I can't really get into perspective what he/she was like. So I wont comment on that.
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The Icons and Post Counts
Now these I'm not bothered about. I mean its good to see that the Old Guard are still active. I wear my beginning date with pride because it tells people that I am dedicated to this game enough to have lasted this long. The personal icons are hassle to me. When the community was small back in 2000 it was rare for people to reach 1500 posts and so I think the personal icon/no. of posts was lower then. Still who cares, no-body needs a personal icon really. I mean its nice to look at but I would prefer icons to be clan related or admin/moderator related. Each clan has their own icon and every member is given it. Dunno how quickly the Dojo would load then but it's just a suggestion. Either that or get rid of them all together.
Post counts??? Who cares, its not how many posts you make its how useful and constructive they are. Yes everyone likes to make funny posts its human nature to try and make others respect you for one or all of your virtues. But personally a constructive post from a vet is just as useful as a constructive post from a newbie.
The idea of membership into the ORG is very clever. Because if you look at it, we almost have a system like that. Unless people have reached a certain amount of posts or been here for a certain amount of time, or have done something incredible for the community or won a tournament their views are clouded with the thoughts that they are not as constructive as old vet's ones are.
Although when I see newbies come in here, they have a very aggressive attitude usually, and are quick to state their feelings if they think other people are insulting them. But after a while when they have been "accepted" this attitude seems to die away, and they just get along with everyone else.
Anyway so I think I'm with you guys that ORG is a free place, and membership by the old vets isn't required, but is always nice to have. It's nice to feel wanted
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No Fear Legend.
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Originally posted by Rokkaku:
Its true, i think the "old gaurd" as someone put it are incredible powerful members of usefulness and contribution, there are the occasional posters though, with lower post counts, that arnt treated with nearly enough respect, I asw people getting annoyed at me when i was a ronin yet posting a lot of new topics and posts, Im now a legendary swordsmen and some people are aggravated that I got this in 5 days, I admit, maybe 20 %, or a bit more, was generally useless stuff, but I tried to make a positive impact on the community despite my relatively new comeing here. People thought I was desperate to up my post count because I was so new, well, that wasnt the case, sure, its nice to be a legendary swordsmen but i think a ronin should be treated with the same respect as a taisho.
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Originally posted by Hirosito:
i think most of your stuff was useful if a bit badly presented.
my only wish as a relative vet is that some 'noobs' took 30secs to think what they want to write and then put it all in one post rather than clogging the threads with 3 posts in 5 minutes in 1 thread.
i like the fact that i'm a kensai and i think that when newbies see that some people with a high post count object to certain behaviour it puts a certain calmness into the forums. i was away for 5 days and all hell broke loose and still yesterday there were some very objectionable post flying around in some threads...this might have been because kuma had given way at hte MTW i dunnno but still...and the babe thread had disappeared again i mean what's up with that
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Hirosito Mori
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
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Originally posted by Erado San:
Vets? Newbies? Two years ago we were only newbies. If you're a newbie now you'll be a vet tomorrow.
If vets want the respect of newbies they had better respect them as well, and the other way around of course.
If anybody needs advice or a question answered, you had better respect those that you want the answer from.
And if someone asks you a question you had better realise that at some time in the past you needed answers as well.
A community is a group of people with common interests and goals. If you don't want to put in your share, for Gods sake please leave now, whether you're a vet or a newbie.
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Originally posted by Momotaro Asakura:
I think the idea of Kuma's to have a bit of constructive look at the ORG and what is going on in its ranks is a very good idea.
For me I never pay much attention to the number of posts a member has but to the who is posting it & the quality of a post, so without this feature I don't believe it will effect the ORG in general. Originaly I think it was started to reward those who contributed to the community, a bit of a reward via the ranking system for frequent flyers or posters I should say. I think it has out lived its purpose despite it gives the forum a bit of character.
Generally speaking I have been around since the original ORG, before STW came out and the same new player influx and troubles happened as Kurando said at the introduction of any new expansion etc. I believe this surge situation is unavoidable and the question really is not how we combat it but how we bend and move with it to our advantage. It is like when we had a swarm of newbies online swearing and taunting the veterans into battles just cause they wanted to have a crack at a player with a three figure honor level. Calls for banning these players were quite common at the beginning of online STW yet we found a better way to handle them. We just ignored them collectivly as a group. They soon got the idea.
As an old administrator of Kenchikuka (Bows to Barry and Ninja ) I think that recently the forums have not been policed well and disturbing threads or posts have been let run too long. Yet I know how hard it is to juggle real life with the admin duties etc so it really is a tough call for an administrator when under the hammer. All involved need to give each other a bit of slack and I hope this special forum airs the situation for the better of the ORG.
Anyway I have rambled on too much, as to Dom's question - New players bring life to the org and I think that a community site is the only way to go. Close the doors and you will have a problem as do most clans at one time or another, a lack of members and forum vitality. Thus they die!
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Originally posted by Momotaro Asakura:
Very well said Eradosan, I totally agree!
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Originally posted by Schultzy:
I also have to say I totally agree with Eradosan too.
I will freely admit, before I saw the MTW demo on PC Gamer i had not heard of it, let alone ever played Shogun.
I, like a lot of people, had the demo "slowdown" problem and it was then i turned to the forums for help.
I found that though the problem had been posted Over and over chaps were still willing to help, pointing me towards the hardware acceleration solution, which was great!
However, in the course of my lurking here, I did read one message from someone, saying something along the lines of "all Newbies are arrogant." or some such like.
Well, i do admit, that did made me think twice about posting here but, one remark does not a forum make, and i've found (and i can only speak about things from my perspective) that this forum is one of the best i've visited in a long time and I have no worries about posting.
Regarding the ranks/post counts.
The only annoying thing there is my lack of knowledge concerning all things Japanese and the fact I don't know what they all mean!
It's a great place and I look forward to getting to know you all better as we wait for M:TW to hit the shelves!
Well, i think that was probably a bit more than my two pennethworth, so i'll Mach meinen Kopf zu!!
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"Jetzt ist der Winter unserer Rabattpreiszelten."
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Originally posted by Sir Kuma of The Org:
Just want to say that i am reading your posts very carefully, interesting and toughtful stuff.
Momotaro Asakura: When ever you see administrators like Erado-san or me doing a lot of mod work, there is a problem. The problem at the Org in this regard at the moment is that we are understaffed. We have excellent mods but they are overwelmed by the work. This in retrospect is one of the contributing factors of the fall out we had.
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La vie est un don.
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Originally posted by Momotaro Asakura:
Hi Kuma, yeah I could see how it happened, especially when you have the issues in the real world to take care of, like you said in another thread. What has happened has and I think that really the rubber band can only strech so far when you are being pulled from both ends. I think the point you raised really hits the nail on the head, not enough hands on deck to do all that is required rather than a lack of policing as I had said. Point taken!
Constructivly maybe all this happened at a good time cause we can certainly bet that the numbers are only going to increase here as the release of MTW grows near and god only knows how many when the game is in full swing. Time to plan for the future and to reduce the chance, as you say Kuma this 'contributing factor' from happening again.
The only way for the ORG to move is forward!
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Originally posted by Orda Khan:
Newbies are not treated with respect by veterans? I still consider myself new to this game I have never been mistreated by veteran players. What is meant by getting no respect anyway? Your posts being ridiculed?
Well all I will say is this. I have seen the sarcastic, condescending remarks levelled at some of my posts. They did not come from veterans. I will let you work out where they came from. As for the icons next to names, they are meaningless when ppl post the blatant spam posts as if being a Tai Sa means something. Anything that can be obtained in such a way is worthless and then they wonder why they don't get respect. It is all a bit funny really double standards usually are. I ask you, if a veteran does not show you the respect you think you deserve is that any worse than a complete stranger not just disagreeing with your post but openly abusing and mocking its author.
Respect is something you earn it can not be commanded and anyway doesn't everyone deserve to be treated with courtesy and respect? If not then we may as well scrap the lot. Judge yourselves before you judge others
.............Orda
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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."
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Originally posted by The Soul:
A very good post Orda. I hope a lot pay attention and not only read it.
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The Soul
"What people do to other souls
They take their lives - destroy their goals
Their basic pride and dignity
Is stripped and torn and shown no pity....
When this could be Heaven for Everyone"
Queen - Heaven for Everyone
MaJesticSoul Sakai
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Originally posted by Wavesword:
When I arrived here I was humble about STW questions but not about political questions or anything relating to the real world! With MTW coming out this is a time when we will all be beginners again.
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Originally posted by NagaoKagetora:
First of all I would like to say what a good job the Org does for the TW community. IMO without the Org and the guys that give up their time to run it, the whole STW online experience would be a lot poorer.
All in all these forums are probably the most intelligent,civil,enlightening that I have come across in my online gaming history, and thats down to the moderators and members. But its a diverse community....
We have people who have been around since the start of STW and even before the games launch.
We have people who have just discovered Shogun and like the rest eagerly await the next TW installment.
We have people with a wealth of STW gaming experience and Historical knowledge.
We have people who give up their knowledge and experience for the good of everyone else.
But like any online forum "community" there are those who crave attention, those who demand respect, there are jesters and jokers, spammers and flamers......and there will always be.
What im trying to say is that everything has good and bad points, the org included. I want to warn about being too self critical.
It is impossible to ensure that everybodys first impression of a forum/community will be a good one. Like wise every visit after that. Lets not forget that many peoples first and subsequent visits are happy ones.
Above all its the members and their attitudes which define this place (we the patrons need reminding of this every so often )....and over all the org makes for a good experience IMO.
Kagetora
Kenchikuka - Kampfgruppe Wiking
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Originally posted by Jochi Khan:
I am new to online gaming, in fact , new to gaming. This makes me a newbie. I have read with interest quite a number of posts on the Org. It supprises me that people can take a game so seriously. Surely it is meant to be enjoyable. To state that all newbies don't hold respect for vets. Firstly what have the vets done to demand respect? Secondly does a newbie have to bow before a vet before asking a question or asking for advice? I have had cause to post asking for advise and I have never had anything but a curtious answer. I have formed my opinion of individuals with some of their postings and if they want respect then they must first show respect. Read and digest the post by Orda Khan. Common sense if ever it was needed.
I am not some youngster feeling his way around I do have quite a few years service on this planet I don't wish to sound condesending but, lets work as a community help each other and enjoy life.When you get to my age you will realise that 'life is very short'.
One for all and all for one.......Jochi Khan
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[This message has been edited by Cheetah (edited 08-05-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Sir Kuma of The Org (edited 08-11-2002).]
Here they are:
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Originally posted by KukriKhan:
I've been reading & writing to net BB's for several years now. I prefer the format over chat and IM, because I have some time to think before responding.
Some BB's I've seen have a "Friendly Newby" forum, no flames or teasing allowed, where guys who haven't yet discovered/read the faq's come, get welcomed, and have their (grindingly repetitive) questions answered, or referred to the appropriate forum.
I'm an old guy, with a fair amount of patience...if such a forum were erected, I'd be glad to help out there.
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[This message has been edited by Cheetah (edited 08-05-2002).]
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Originally posted by Dom:
Well, since this forum was created to discuss the .Org this is precisely what I
am going to do.
When I started playing the game, I started visiting this place as well. This
site is THE site for the multiplayer junkies like myself to come
downloadstuff/lookuplinks/ask forhelpwithgame/strategy/etc.
This is all fine. People who are supporting the site do it for free and
provide excellent service. However, they are not getting completely nothing out
of it. It is their hobby (an assumption) and it gives them respect from the
community for all their charitable work (another assumption). There is nothing
wrong with that.
The problem is defining the line as to where that fine line is. Some of the
old vets come here and expect lots of unconditional respect and acceptance of
their views based on their status and their record in the community. Some new
people, on the other hand, come in and do not feel anything of sorts. Some of
them haven't played shoggy yet and they are waiting for MTW to come out.
They didn't have anything done for them by the "community guardians" yet they are expected to get in queue for a piece of respect. The most vivid example of skipping that queue is DD unceremonially barging in here, skipping all over the old guard heads and reflecting rays of enlightenment from his shining armour sitting on the high horse.
Some of the patrons have reasonably accepted his presence and tried to fish out as much good out of it as possible.
The others ones couldn't stand someone whose only "achievement" was to play a game, while their contibutions included years of honest work for the good of the community.
In order to florish .Org has to make clear where it stands. Whether it is a free space for the players to come and go, or is it the place where you get your membership card approved by the old guard after they have considered you pollitically safe.
think about it.
Regards, Ryurik
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Originally posted by Kurando
Originally posted by Dom:
In order to florish .Org has to make clear where it stands. Whether it is a free space for the players to come and go, or is it the place where you get your membership card approved by the old guard after they have considered you pollitically safe.
That's a very key point + first off let me say that I don't blame the new patrons for this, but it's been my experience that the vast majority of problems which do occurr at the dojo tend to happen during the release period of a new component of the Total War universe, (i.e. an expansion pack or whatever), and moreover the problems usually occurr when large influx new patrons all go overboard each trying to make a bigger splash than the next to get status and approval.
One possible solution might be to eliminate all icons and ranks, (except for the Admins and Moderators), or possibly to eliminate the registration dates and post counts from the patrons sidebars.
I worked like a dog to get the 500 competitive wins for my battlefield icon, and I wear it proudly, but I'd happily surrender it if that would help newer patrons feel more at ease and accepted.
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Originally posted by Lap:
I agree with you both. I have been playing STW for two years silently watching this site emerge as the only real good TW site (IMO). I agree with Dom saying that the new players don't have any respect for the veterans. Personally I have just come hear for news and I rarely surf the forums so I don't really have a lot of respect for the veterans. It's hard to really give enough respect to those who you have never known. This of course does not mean you have to act like an ass and disrespect everyone. Of course this will happen regardless. When MTW is released everyone knows that this site will have n00bs running around like mad and theres not much you can do save the "delete post" button.
Kurando is completely right (and honorable seeing as he volunteered to give up his ranks for the good of the site) in saying that ranks are bad. I run a Morrowind site and a couple of forums and I have had the same problems. New players come in and act like morons and jerks. I knew this would happen considering Morrowind just came out so the staff had a discussion about the ranks and icons. I am very glad we voted to have no icons. Icons promote flame wars and post farmers. I have seen it happen on countless forums. People will post "..." or n/t messages or just replies saying "yea", "no", or other one word answers just like that. It makes the forums messy, usually angers the vets and has no useful purpose. I also know that the vets are the responsible ones. They are almost never the cause of the problems. They also are generally humble and are well known enough that they don't need ranks. Everybody already knows them. These are the main reasons why veterans really don't need their ranks and rewards. I suggest you remove all ranks and awards for the good of the site.
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Originally posted by BarryNoDachi:
i know that a lot of ppl have spammed really hard to get their post counts (oops i mean worked) but i think this is something that the admin and staff need to talk about!
kurando it is noble of you to give up your rank and this is very kind gesture and thnx for my icon at the kenchi forums m8
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Clan Kenchikuka
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Originally posted by NinjaKilla:
It's funny you should be talking about this, but in the last couple of months, my whole attitude to the game as changed. It is understandable that some people are respected due to their playing skills, but I feel that the community as a whole puts far too much emphasis on this, rather than on making the community a friendly environment and welcoming in new players.
No disrespect Dom but I therefore treat your question with the same indifference that I treat the: Who's the best; who's a cheater 'discussions'. It's like when Nike started making snowboard equipment... the attitude: whos gives a shit as long as we're having fun, is far more beneficial than any superfluous politics.
Originally posted by Dom:
In order to florish .Org has to make clear where it stands. Whether it is a free space for the players to come and go, or is it the place where you get your membership card approved by the old guard after they have considered you pollitically safe.
LOL, what I'm trying to say is yes I agree, but it's down to the individual patrons to decide. Personally I don't care, people should just do what they want - I aint gonna read the crap. Gee... if only everyone were a enlightened as me.
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Clan Kenchikuka
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Originally posted by Toda Nebuchadnezzar:
You know ever since I joined this community near the beginning I have always liked it. The people were friendly and helpful and I learned that to be friendly and helpful was the way to become accepted in this community.
But to be honest if you look at our situation over the last two years you notice that it is very much like a soap opera. For example Neighbours or Eastenders (UK). Clan wars fire up because of something someone said. Mystery and intrigue is rife because of the conspiracy and infiltration of many clans and so on and so on. Then I realised that in Ancient Japan this is exactly how life was led. And to tell you the truth I kinda liked the way we were heading. Yes we were always helpful and friendly still but these little incidents for me brought us back 500 years to the time where we are all so interested in.(Well I am anyway )
But at the ORG I have always felt welcome. Infact when I first got here everyone said they were glad I had made it here finally, and the same was for every other newbie. Life was good back then.
Now I have been away for a month with exams and so don't know much about this Darkmoor person at all and so I can't really get into perspective what he/she was like. So I wont comment on that.
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The Icons and Post Counts
Now these I'm not bothered about. I mean its good to see that the Old Guard are still active. I wear my beginning date with pride because it tells people that I am dedicated to this game enough to have lasted this long. The personal icons are hassle to me. When the community was small back in 2000 it was rare for people to reach 1500 posts and so I think the personal icon/no. of posts was lower then. Still who cares, no-body needs a personal icon really. I mean its nice to look at but I would prefer icons to be clan related or admin/moderator related. Each clan has their own icon and every member is given it. Dunno how quickly the Dojo would load then but it's just a suggestion. Either that or get rid of them all together.
Post counts??? Who cares, its not how many posts you make its how useful and constructive they are. Yes everyone likes to make funny posts its human nature to try and make others respect you for one or all of your virtues. But personally a constructive post from a vet is just as useful as a constructive post from a newbie.
The idea of membership into the ORG is very clever. Because if you look at it, we almost have a system like that. Unless people have reached a certain amount of posts or been here for a certain amount of time, or have done something incredible for the community or won a tournament their views are clouded with the thoughts that they are not as constructive as old vet's ones are.
Although when I see newbies come in here, they have a very aggressive attitude usually, and are quick to state their feelings if they think other people are insulting them. But after a while when they have been "accepted" this attitude seems to die away, and they just get along with everyone else.
Anyway so I think I'm with you guys that ORG is a free place, and membership by the old vets isn't required, but is always nice to have. It's nice to feel wanted
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No Fear Legend.
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Originally posted by Rokkaku:
Its true, i think the "old gaurd" as someone put it are incredible powerful members of usefulness and contribution, there are the occasional posters though, with lower post counts, that arnt treated with nearly enough respect, I asw people getting annoyed at me when i was a ronin yet posting a lot of new topics and posts, Im now a legendary swordsmen and some people are aggravated that I got this in 5 days, I admit, maybe 20 %, or a bit more, was generally useless stuff, but I tried to make a positive impact on the community despite my relatively new comeing here. People thought I was desperate to up my post count because I was so new, well, that wasnt the case, sure, its nice to be a legendary swordsmen but i think a ronin should be treated with the same respect as a taisho.
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Originally posted by Hirosito:
i think most of your stuff was useful if a bit badly presented.
my only wish as a relative vet is that some 'noobs' took 30secs to think what they want to write and then put it all in one post rather than clogging the threads with 3 posts in 5 minutes in 1 thread.
i like the fact that i'm a kensai and i think that when newbies see that some people with a high post count object to certain behaviour it puts a certain calmness into the forums. i was away for 5 days and all hell broke loose and still yesterday there were some very objectionable post flying around in some threads...this might have been because kuma had given way at hte MTW i dunnno but still...and the babe thread had disappeared again i mean what's up with that
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Hirosito Mori
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
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Originally posted by Erado San:
Vets? Newbies? Two years ago we were only newbies. If you're a newbie now you'll be a vet tomorrow.
If vets want the respect of newbies they had better respect them as well, and the other way around of course.
If anybody needs advice or a question answered, you had better respect those that you want the answer from.
And if someone asks you a question you had better realise that at some time in the past you needed answers as well.
A community is a group of people with common interests and goals. If you don't want to put in your share, for Gods sake please leave now, whether you're a vet or a newbie.
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Originally posted by Momotaro Asakura:
I think the idea of Kuma's to have a bit of constructive look at the ORG and what is going on in its ranks is a very good idea.
For me I never pay much attention to the number of posts a member has but to the who is posting it & the quality of a post, so without this feature I don't believe it will effect the ORG in general. Originaly I think it was started to reward those who contributed to the community, a bit of a reward via the ranking system for frequent flyers or posters I should say. I think it has out lived its purpose despite it gives the forum a bit of character.
Generally speaking I have been around since the original ORG, before STW came out and the same new player influx and troubles happened as Kurando said at the introduction of any new expansion etc. I believe this surge situation is unavoidable and the question really is not how we combat it but how we bend and move with it to our advantage. It is like when we had a swarm of newbies online swearing and taunting the veterans into battles just cause they wanted to have a crack at a player with a three figure honor level. Calls for banning these players were quite common at the beginning of online STW yet we found a better way to handle them. We just ignored them collectivly as a group. They soon got the idea.
As an old administrator of Kenchikuka (Bows to Barry and Ninja ) I think that recently the forums have not been policed well and disturbing threads or posts have been let run too long. Yet I know how hard it is to juggle real life with the admin duties etc so it really is a tough call for an administrator when under the hammer. All involved need to give each other a bit of slack and I hope this special forum airs the situation for the better of the ORG.
Anyway I have rambled on too much, as to Dom's question - New players bring life to the org and I think that a community site is the only way to go. Close the doors and you will have a problem as do most clans at one time or another, a lack of members and forum vitality. Thus they die!
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Originally posted by Momotaro Asakura:
Very well said Eradosan, I totally agree!
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Originally posted by Schultzy:
I also have to say I totally agree with Eradosan too.
I will freely admit, before I saw the MTW demo on PC Gamer i had not heard of it, let alone ever played Shogun.
I, like a lot of people, had the demo "slowdown" problem and it was then i turned to the forums for help.
I found that though the problem had been posted Over and over chaps were still willing to help, pointing me towards the hardware acceleration solution, which was great!
However, in the course of my lurking here, I did read one message from someone, saying something along the lines of "all Newbies are arrogant." or some such like.
Well, i do admit, that did made me think twice about posting here but, one remark does not a forum make, and i've found (and i can only speak about things from my perspective) that this forum is one of the best i've visited in a long time and I have no worries about posting.
Regarding the ranks/post counts.
The only annoying thing there is my lack of knowledge concerning all things Japanese and the fact I don't know what they all mean!
It's a great place and I look forward to getting to know you all better as we wait for M:TW to hit the shelves!
Well, i think that was probably a bit more than my two pennethworth, so i'll Mach meinen Kopf zu!!
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"Jetzt ist der Winter unserer Rabattpreiszelten."
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Originally posted by Sir Kuma of The Org:
Just want to say that i am reading your posts very carefully, interesting and toughtful stuff.
Momotaro Asakura: When ever you see administrators like Erado-san or me doing a lot of mod work, there is a problem. The problem at the Org in this regard at the moment is that we are understaffed. We have excellent mods but they are overwelmed by the work. This in retrospect is one of the contributing factors of the fall out we had.
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La vie est un don.
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Originally posted by Momotaro Asakura:
Hi Kuma, yeah I could see how it happened, especially when you have the issues in the real world to take care of, like you said in another thread. What has happened has and I think that really the rubber band can only strech so far when you are being pulled from both ends. I think the point you raised really hits the nail on the head, not enough hands on deck to do all that is required rather than a lack of policing as I had said. Point taken!
Constructivly maybe all this happened at a good time cause we can certainly bet that the numbers are only going to increase here as the release of MTW grows near and god only knows how many when the game is in full swing. Time to plan for the future and to reduce the chance, as you say Kuma this 'contributing factor' from happening again.
The only way for the ORG to move is forward!
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Originally posted by Orda Khan:
Newbies are not treated with respect by veterans? I still consider myself new to this game I have never been mistreated by veteran players. What is meant by getting no respect anyway? Your posts being ridiculed?
Well all I will say is this. I have seen the sarcastic, condescending remarks levelled at some of my posts. They did not come from veterans. I will let you work out where they came from. As for the icons next to names, they are meaningless when ppl post the blatant spam posts as if being a Tai Sa means something. Anything that can be obtained in such a way is worthless and then they wonder why they don't get respect. It is all a bit funny really double standards usually are. I ask you, if a veteran does not show you the respect you think you deserve is that any worse than a complete stranger not just disagreeing with your post but openly abusing and mocking its author.
Respect is something you earn it can not be commanded and anyway doesn't everyone deserve to be treated with courtesy and respect? If not then we may as well scrap the lot. Judge yourselves before you judge others
.............Orda
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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."
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Originally posted by The Soul:
A very good post Orda. I hope a lot pay attention and not only read it.
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The Soul
"What people do to other souls
They take their lives - destroy their goals
Their basic pride and dignity
Is stripped and torn and shown no pity....
When this could be Heaven for Everyone"
Queen - Heaven for Everyone
MaJesticSoul Sakai
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Originally posted by Wavesword:
When I arrived here I was humble about STW questions but not about political questions or anything relating to the real world! With MTW coming out this is a time when we will all be beginners again.
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Originally posted by NagaoKagetora:
First of all I would like to say what a good job the Org does for the TW community. IMO without the Org and the guys that give up their time to run it, the whole STW online experience would be a lot poorer.
All in all these forums are probably the most intelligent,civil,enlightening that I have come across in my online gaming history, and thats down to the moderators and members. But its a diverse community....
We have people who have been around since the start of STW and even before the games launch.
We have people who have just discovered Shogun and like the rest eagerly await the next TW installment.
We have people with a wealth of STW gaming experience and Historical knowledge.
We have people who give up their knowledge and experience for the good of everyone else.
But like any online forum "community" there are those who crave attention, those who demand respect, there are jesters and jokers, spammers and flamers......and there will always be.
What im trying to say is that everything has good and bad points, the org included. I want to warn about being too self critical.
It is impossible to ensure that everybodys first impression of a forum/community will be a good one. Like wise every visit after that. Lets not forget that many peoples first and subsequent visits are happy ones.
Above all its the members and their attitudes which define this place (we the patrons need reminding of this every so often )....and over all the org makes for a good experience IMO.
Kagetora
Kenchikuka - Kampfgruppe Wiking
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Originally posted by Jochi Khan:
I am new to online gaming, in fact , new to gaming. This makes me a newbie. I have read with interest quite a number of posts on the Org. It supprises me that people can take a game so seriously. Surely it is meant to be enjoyable. To state that all newbies don't hold respect for vets. Firstly what have the vets done to demand respect? Secondly does a newbie have to bow before a vet before asking a question or asking for advice? I have had cause to post asking for advise and I have never had anything but a curtious answer. I have formed my opinion of individuals with some of their postings and if they want respect then they must first show respect. Read and digest the post by Orda Khan. Common sense if ever it was needed.
I am not some youngster feeling his way around I do have quite a few years service on this planet I don't wish to sound condesending but, lets work as a community help each other and enjoy life.When you get to my age you will realise that 'life is very short'.
One for all and all for one.......Jochi Khan
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[This message has been edited by Cheetah (edited 08-05-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Sir Kuma of The Org (edited 08-11-2002).]