Nusantara : Total War

[Cute Wolf]

Because the complete lack of mod that focus on the conflicts and historical events that shape what we called today "South East Asia", that time is known as "Nusantara"... In the recent discussion in our small Indonesians group; Me, Sonic, and Gaius Septimus Severus decide we should have a historical mod that covers the interesting history of the fall of Hindu-Buddhist empire, the rise of Islamic Kingdoms, and the European Invasion in this particular area and timeline...

The timeline of the mod will start at 1478 AD, at the verge of the Big War between Bhre Kertabumi (known as Brawijaya in Babad Tanah Jawi, and Bhre Kertabumi in Pararaton, the last king of Majapahit line in Java) and his muslim son, Raden Patah, the first sultan on Javanese muslim dinasty, Kasultanan Jawi. Both sides called numerous army and start amassed their powers in their border... The timeline is set at the end in 1798, in the historical event of bankruptancy of the VOC (Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie), the representative of the Dutch (united province) colony in the Indonesian Archipelago.

The Mod will feature the most interesting timeline in the History of South East Asia, and Indonesian archipelago in the focus. Majapahit is a great empire, but after the passing of his greatest general and minister, Gajahmada, many kingdoms under their rule starts to break, and try to extend their power as much as possible, using the confusion sows in that time of chaos. The Muslim exist since some hundred years ago here... but now they start to carve out their kingdoms, and even some nobility choose to convert and use their new religion as a justification to rebel against their former liege. As you can see (and read in the history) the Hindu-Buddhist empire is start to fall in Indonesia, while Islam start to spread in the previous kingdoms both from within, and invade from the outside. Meanwhile, some of the nobility support the Christian Missionary activity. And for more, the Christians is start to intensify their influence, gaining some prominent nobility, and peaked with European invasion of South East Asia.

In this mod, you'll lead your kingdom through "hard to choose" choices and fates. Will you support the growing Islamic faith, and abandon your old Gods and Buddha, choose to revive the glorious days of the Magnificent Hindu-Buddha Empires, or will you accept the Christianity, and gaining an upper hand to use the full advantage of incoming European invasion?

This time, the kind of soldiers serve in the army of the South Asian Powers varied greatly. While most states still maintain the old feudal based army, armed with old, but still effective method of spears, bows, and swords, increasing numbers of elites start to armed themself with chinese muskets, train their troops according to the Turkish-Ottoman tradition, and those who comes in contact with european missionaries even start to adopt contemporary european weaponary, giving them acess to Pike and Musket typically found only in european army.

You can choose to command a traditionalist army, based on old but numerous Spearmen and Archers, supported with War Elephants to stampede the insidious muslims and greedy christians alike, choose to command a gun and cavalry based muslim army, modelled after the Middle Eastern warriors, and clean the land from the filthy pagans and the evil christians, or choose to command Europeanized troops and put an end to the silly conflicts of misplaced muslims and heathen pagans. But be wary what path you choose, as you can expect, the Military reforms are historically tied with leading religion in that area, and as such, several certain fanatic berserkers are heavily ritualized and only found in Hindu temples, the Jihad warriors are drawn from arabian descendants and muslim santris, and as history approved, the europeans and christianized nobles are very fond using local christians in the style of european troops. Yes, religious buildings based reform (some kind of siege, heavy, and missile weapons reform found in some famous TW mods) is closer to the historical evidence present here.

So Join the Nusantara TW Group if you want to take part in the making of this mod... We'l discuss much things regarding historical armies, unit making, maps and cities, etc... any help is greatly appreciated, but we aimed specifically to get anyone coming from ASEAN, because the Historical Source of this timeline are relatively abundant, but almost all are still written only in their respective native languages, this is why we aimed the recruitment ads to those who are Indonesians, Malaysians, Filipino, Thai, and another ASEAN members... (Notice that Cutewolf, Sonic, GaiusSeptimusSecerus, the original conceptors of this mod, are Indonesian and couldn't read Thai, Tagalog, or Viets, and we did capable to understand Melayu, but with several misinterpreted meanings... :wall:).

As you can expect, the map in this campaign will be a map of ASEAN :beam:
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/Map_rough.jpg
EDIT: I know that campaign map will need about 70% of the area was land... maybe I'l try to made some Islands more "chubby" or closing the islands... well, maybe we'll start out first with making custom battle factions...

Proposed Factions

Factions:

Jawi Cultures: (Descendants of Jawa-Hindu Royal Blood)
1. Majapahit
2. Kasultanan Jawi
3. Pakuan Padjajaran
4. Sriwijaya

Melayu Clutures: (The Malayan Influenced Sultanates)
5. Aceh-Pasai
6. Malaka
7. Brunei Darussalam
8. Sulu
9. Banjar

Bugis Cultures: (The Strong Sea Trading Culture that conquer much of the central Indonesian archipelago)
10. Gowa-Makkasar
11. Moloku Kie Raha Ternate

Sea Warriors: (using the romano_british faction's unique traits in BI!)
12. Bajak Laut / Sea Warriors (yes, the mallacan straits, sumatran coasts, nusa tenggara, timor, and mollucan spice islands are infested with linked and mutually supporting pirate colonies and sea peoples)

Indochina: (The Chinesse-India Influenced Kingdoms of Indochina Peninsulla)
13. Siam
14. Champa
15. Khmer

Europeans: (Power Hungry Imperial-Colonialists that made their way to conquer the kingdoms in Southeast Asia... Emergent Factions (unplayable) in the main campaign... may have their own provincial campaign, set at a latter time...)
16. Spain
17. Portugal
18. Dutch
19. England

This mod will be based on BI for several reasons:

1. The ability to have multiple religion on one faction, as the religion is merely a trait, but carrying a big effect. As well as the ability to script some trigger that could induce the change of religious belief. (in M2TW, the religion, and religious change, is linked to entire faction, so we couldn't recreate a kingdom, who has Hindu Faction leader, has a son who embrace Islam, and another son who become a Christian.)

2. The existance of 3 basic religion, (Hindu-Buddhist is set as one religion, because the Hindu-Buddhist kingdoms in Indonesia is historically synchretic and mutually coexist, the two other religious belief are Islam and Christianity)

3. Horde and emergent faction, the europeans are coming in 1511 forward, in waves of invasion forces... We'll try to script their Invasion in the campaign by spawning them in the edge of the map, and then teleporting them to their historical landing site, and spawn their ships.

4. As well as romano_british as the Sea Warriors faction, they are the locusts of the sea, and able to mount some serious challanges on lands too... they aren't horde factions, but couldn't be eliminated entirely, and can survive without cities.

Thank you Very much for reading this humble presentation!!!
Hope you can join and support us in this mod! :thumbsup:
Just join our group if you are Interested: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=122

Cute Wolf, Sonic, and Gaius Septimus Severus

[Rahwana]

And About the units, we allready done some research, but not yet in modelling :wall:, but at least I have done the balancing type about some units relative to their historical strength.

Well, the unit type that we've allready got in almost complete sources in our places and timeline is the most often mentioned in Several native account, the longspearmen aka pikemen... and for the starter, I'll share some of my balancing research about (hopefully) all types of pikemen that exist in our storyline... (notice that some European Elite Pikemen are taken from Medieval 2 TW, but then, it could be present given the timeline that pikemen is still the staple infantry at that time...)

Pikemen will use the phalanx formation with long_pike attribute, quite similar to the phalangitai of ancient times in this mod
Unit size is supposedly in Large size. If numbers are rather odd (not factor of 10), then the extra numbers indicate officers.

Colonial Pikemen - 81 men
Pri A : pike 15,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 8,11,0
Mor : 11, normal, highly_trained
Attr : horde_unit
Comment: This pike unit represent the european colonists who armed themself with pikes, but not inclined to become part of standing military unit after settled, as you can see, they have horde unit ability to represent that, also used to roleplay if europeans are ousted, they are flee, but armed themself with pike as the easiest and still effective weapons to get

Pikemen - 82 men
Pri A : pike 16,4
Sec A : sword 12,4
Def : 9,12,0
Mor : 11, disciplined, highly_trained
Attr : -
Comment: This pike unit represent professional pikemen that the europeans get, they are decently armoured and armed, and historically used to great effect in the early days of conquests.

Colonial Pike Mercenaries - 81 men
Pri A : pike 15,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 8,11,0
Mor : 11, normal, highly_trained
Attr : mercenary
Comment: After taking a settlement in native region, sometimes the european colonists still trying to get some fortune in work as mercenary pikemen, or represent renegade european colonists turned against their former comrades. They are less effective than their professional counterparts, but in the early parts of the campaign, the native factions could get this unit to counter the invading pikemen.

Burgher Footmen - 82 men
Pri A : pike 18,4
Sec A : sword 12,4
Def : 9,13,0
Mor : 14, disciplined, highly_trained
Attr : -
Comment: Elite pike unit for the Dutch, taken from Teutonic campaign description.

Tercio - 82 men
Pri A : pike 19,3
Sec A : sword 11,3
Def : 8,15,0
Mor : 17, disciplined, highly_trained
Attr : very_hardy
Comment: Spain's Elite pikemen, from M2TW vanilla, but they have extra armours here...

Aventuros - 82 men
Pri A : pike 19,5
Sec A : sword 13,5
Def : 11,12,0
Mor : 16, impetuous, highly_trained
Attr : hardy
Comment: Portugal's hot headed, well armoured, and quite murderous elite pikemen, from vanilla M2TW of course...

Javanese Pikemen - 101 men
Pri A : pike 12,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 7,12,0
Mor : 10, normal, highly_trained
Attr : -
Comment: The early attempt of the Javanese to counter enemy pikemen with their terms, they historically have more men than european pikemen and better performance compared to another non-reformed native pikemen, but still somewhat inferior in one to one combat against european pikemen. They often described to have more armour than another native pikemen.

Malayan Pikemen - 101 men
Pri A : pike 12,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 6,10,0
Mor : 9, normal, highly_trained
Attr : hardy
Comment: The kingdom of Malaka (and melayu people afterall) try to counter early portugese Invasion with some desperate improvement, including getting longspears to counter portugese pikemen that invading their kingdom, these men are ultimately failed, but at least they are depicted as capable to exhaust enemy pikemen for a while...

Viet Pikemen - 101 men (hypothetical, need another historian!)
Pri A : pike 12,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 6,11,0
Mor : 11, normal, highly_trained
Attr : -
Comment: This pike unit is a filler because logically in the continent, lands are bigger than in the Archipelago, and they should at least incorporate some pikemen-ish tactics...

Reformed Native Pikemen - 122 men
Pri A : pike 16,4
Sec A : sword 12,4
Def : 5,13,0
Mor : 12, disciplined, highly_trained
Attr : very_hardy
Comment: Pikemen training in the lands of Christianized nobles (and thus heavily europanized) often incorporate some European officer to give better drills and accordingly, drawn more men into their rolls. Historically used in some areas that undergo significant christianization, and or have the local rulers allied to the europeans. They clearly less armoured than most enemy pikemen (because they are trained at comparably late period in the campaign), but their skill and numbers could easily overwhelm their oppositions. Historically, before 17th century christians are mostly enrolled in the very high quality, european styled army such as this.

Javanese Pike Militia - 101 men
Pri A : pike 12,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 7,12,0
Mor : 10, normal, highly_trained
Attr : no_custom
Comment: The AOR counterpart of Javanese Pikemen, used by non-javanese native factions.

Malayan Pike Militia - 101 men
Pri A : pike 12,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 6,10,0
Mor : 9, normal, highly_trained
Attr : no_custom, hardy
Comment: The AOR counterpart of Malayan Pikemen, used bynon-melayu native factions.

Viet Pikemen - 101 men (hypothetical, need another historian!)
Pri A : pike 12,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 6,11,0
Mor : 11, normal, highly_trained
Attr : no_custom
Comment: The AOR counterpart of Viet Pikemen, used by non-indochina native factions.

Native Pike Soldiers - 122 men
Pri A : pike 15,3
Sec A : sword 11,3
Def : 5,13,0
Mor : 12, disciplined, highly_trained
Attr : very_hardy
Comment: The Europeans also trained natives as better quality pikemen than most native improvisations could do... but they historically still somewhat less quality than those trained by christianized nobles, the counterpart of the Reformed Native Pikemen

Native Pike Mercenary - 101 men
Pri A : pike 11,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 5,10,0
Mor : 9, normal, highly_trained
Attr : mercenary
Comment: Local mercenary sometimes sold their service as poor quality pikemen, mentioned several times, but certainly almost land on the side of loser... at least this pikemen is a good holder of the line, except against another pikemen.

[G. Septimus]

And About the units, we allready done some research, but not yet in modelling :wall:, but at least I have done the balancing type about some units relative to their historical strength.

Well, the unit type that we've allready got in almost complete sources in our places and timeline is the most often mentioned in Several native account, the longspearmen aka pikemen... and for the starter, I'll share some of my balancing research about (hopefully) all types of pikemen that exist in our storyline... (notice that some European Elite Pikemen are taken from Medieval 2 TW, but then, it could be present given the timeline that pikemen is still the staple infantry at that time...)

Pikemen will use the phalanx formation with long_pike attribute, quite similar to the phalangitai of ancient times in this mod
Unit size is supposedly in Large size. If numbers are rather odd (not factor of 10), then the extra numbers indicate officers.

Colonial Pikemen - 81 men
Pri A : pike 15,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 8,11,0
Mor : 11, normal, highly_trained
Attr : horde_unit
Comment: This pike unit represent the european colonists who armed themself with pikes, but not inclined to become part of standing military unit after settled, as you can see, they have horde unit ability to represent that, also used to roleplay if europeans are ousted, they are flee, but armed themself with pike as the easiest and still effective weapons to get

Pikemen - 82 men
Pri A : pike 16,4
Sec A : sword 12,4
Def : 9,12,0
Mor : 11, disciplined, highly_trained
Attr : -
Comment: This pike unit represent professional pikemen that the europeans get, they are decently armoured and armed, and historically used to great effect in the early days of conquests.

Colonial Pike Mercenaries - 81 men
Pri A : pike 15,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 8,11,0
Mor : 11, normal, highly_trained
Attr : mercenary
Comment: After taking a settlement in native region, sometimes the european colonists still trying to get some fortune in work as mercenary pikemen, or represent renegade european colonists turned against their former comrades. They are less effective than their professional counterparts, but in the early parts of the campaign, the native factions could get this unit to counter the invading pikemen.

Burgher Footmen - 82 men
Pri A : pike 18,4
Sec A : sword 12,4
Def : 9,13,0
Mor : 14, disciplined, highly_trained
Attr : -
Comment: Elite pike unit for the Dutch, taken from Teutonic campaign description.

Tercio - 82 men
Pri A : pike 19,3
Sec A : sword 11,3
Def : 8,15,0
Mor : 17, disciplined, highly_trained
Attr : very_hardy
Comment: Spain's Elite pikemen, from M2TW vanilla, but they have extra armours here...

Aventuros - 82 men
Pri A : pike 19,5
Sec A : sword 13,5
Def : 11,12,0
Mor : 16, impetuous, highly_trained
Attr : hardy
Comment: Portugal's hot headed, well armoured, and quite murderous elite pikemen, from vanilla M2TW of course...

Javanese Pikemen - 101 men
Pri A : pike 12,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 7,12,0
Mor : 10, normal, highly_trained
Attr : -
Comment: The early attempt of the Javanese to counter enemy pikemen with their terms, they historically have more men than european pikemen and better performance compared to another non-reformed native pikemen, but still somewhat inferior in one to one combat against european pikemen. They often described to have more armour than another native pikemen.

Malayan Pikemen - 101 men
Pri A : pike 12,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 6,10,0
Mor : 9, normal, highly_trained
Attr : hardy
Comment: The kingdom of Malaka (and melayu people afterall) try to counter early portugese Invasion with some desperate improvement, including getting longspears to counter portugese pikemen that invading their kingdom, these men are ultimately failed, but at least they are depicted as capable to exhaust enemy pikemen for a while...

Viet Pikemen - 101 men (hypothetical, need another historian!)
Pri A : pike 12,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 6,11,0
Mor : 11, normal, highly_trained
Attr : -
Comment: This pike unit is a filler because logically in the continent, lands are bigger than in the Archipelago, and they should at least incorporate some pikemen-ish tactics...

Reformed Native Pikemen - 122 men
Pri A : pike 16,4
Sec A : sword 12,4
Def : 5,13,0
Mor : 12, disciplined, highly_trained
Attr : very_hardy
Comment: Pikemen training in the lands of Christianized nobles (and thus heavily europanized) often incorporate some European officer to give better drills and accordingly, drawn more men into their rolls. Historically used in some areas that undergo significant christianization, and or have the local rulers allied to the europeans. They clearly less armoured than most enemy pikemen (because they are trained at comparably late period in the campaign), but their skill and numbers could easily overwhelm their oppositions. Historically, before 17th century christians are mostly enrolled in the very high quality, european styled army such as this.

Javanese Pike Militia - 101 men
Pri A : pike 12,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 7,12,0
Mor : 10, normal, highly_trained
Attr : no_custom
Comment: The AOR counterpart of Javanese Pikemen, used by non-javanese native factions.

Malayan Pike Militia - 101 men
Pri A : pike 12,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 6,10,0
Mor : 9, normal, highly_trained
Attr : no_custom, hardy
Comment: The AOR counterpart of Malayan Pikemen, used bynon-melayu native factions.

Viet Pikemen - 101 men (hypothetical, need another historian!)
Pri A : pike 12,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 6,11,0
Mor : 11, normal, highly_trained
Attr : no_custom
Comment: The AOR counterpart of Viet Pikemen, used by non-indochina native factions.

Native Pike Soldiers - 122 men
Pri A : pike 15,3
Sec A : sword 11,3
Def : 5,13,0
Mor : 12, disciplined, highly_trained
Attr : very_hardy
Comment: The Europeans also trained natives as better quality pikemen than most native improvisations could do... but they historically still somewhat less quality than those trained by christianized nobles, the counterpart of the Reformed Native Pikemen

Native Pike Mercenary - 101 men
Pri A : pike 11,3
Sec A : sword 9,3
Def : 5,10,0
Mor : 9, normal, highly_trained
Attr : mercenary
Comment: Local mercenary sometimes sold their service as poor quality pikemen, mentioned several times, but certainly almost land on the side of loser... at least this pikemen is a good holder of the line, except against another pikemen.

Nice, but, like, all of them are pikemen
maybe some gunners will help :rifle:

EDIT:
Only Sonic can know the Unit stats, so I erased it...

[Cute Wolf]

it seems that no other South East Asian orgah's here....:laugh4:
But at least we allready begun our work...

Oh yeah, our research in gunners are about to be finished, and about faction symbols is soon updated...

EDIT: Sonic... your pikemen stats are sightly... just... have too phalangitai stats.... but whatever, it's your job to unit balancing...

[Cute Wolf]

Here's our verified faction symbols for Jawi Cultured factions, Aceh, Brunei, and Malaka:

Majapahit: The Majapahit Sun
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logomajapahit.jpg

Kasultanan Jawi: Boat and Joglo
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logokasultananjawi.jpg

Pajajaran: Ganesha
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logopajajaran.jpg

Sriwijaya: Sunrise on the River
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logosriwijaya.jpg

Aceh: Cresent & Star
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logoaceh.jpg

Brunei: The Brunei's Symbol (they are still exist now)
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logobrunei.jpg

Malaka: Crensnt & Star of Malaka state
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logomalaka.jpg

[wlesmana]

O hey, halo kawan se-tanah air! Dari bandung ya?

So Majapahit will be featured? As well as the island of Bali I assume. The biggest challenge will be the huge water area, making the mod's big fight occurring in the sea. I would also suggest the remodeling of all cities, since castles back then don't really rely on gates as their defense but on narrow pathways. It should be easier to do than other mods. Instead of a wall surrounding the outer edges of the city, you can have multiple layers of short gates inside the city with the "castle" in the middle, by the plaza, where the defenders will fight to the death.

Since you're going to be using BI as base (for religion), you can also introduce horde invasion, maybe the Yuen (Mongol) or the western explorers.

[Cute Wolf]

Halo Wlesmana! Mau ikutan? Sangat membutuhkan bantuan orang yang sudah pengalaman membuat model unit...

This mod is based in historical period at the fall of majapahit (1478), up to VOC (until 1798), so yes there was Invasion, but No mongol invasion... we have European Invasion!

The Island of Bali are the included, but as they are the last stronghold of Majapahit (the Balinese kingdoms are descendants of majapahit) and they are rather small on campaign map, maybe we only get 1 city on this Island represented. And If you want to play Balinese factions, you should play Majapahit :2thumbsup: as balinese are descendants of Hindu refugees refuse to acknowledge Islamic suzerainity on Java Island. Actually the earliest Gelgel dynasty are founded by the heir of Majapahit: Sri Aji Kresna Kepakisan... as his Father, Brawijaya dies at the battle with his step-brother, Raden Patah, who founded the Javanese Sultanate dynasty.

Yes, maybe we'll remodel the cities, but our first priority is completing our unit rooster, creating the maps (goddamit with the snows! I've made a rough map of Java Island as test, but it going to become white in winter :wall:), and our first relase will be custom-battle playable factions.

Yeah, I know the Poor AI navigation, but BI seems to give better sea faring invasion than standard RTW. And for something rather "looks ridiculous but true" I also hope to exploit AI stupidity (yes AI stupidity), to shape the campaign according to Historical facts... The Decisive Battles is waged on land, but Sea is important factor (afterall this is Indonesia! The Thessalocratic Empire grows here). The BI AI often sent sea borne invasion, but rarely in threatening force... THAT'S IT! We decide to let the local factions keep their "stupidity" at the campaign map (but then, in my EB experience, sometimes AI will land huge naval invasions), and move european forces by spawning huge Invading force, and teleport and spawn more... with scripts of course... so expect europeans to carve their colonies easily, and you, as the player, must try to unite the native factions to overthrow the ever-spawning europeans... Yeah, something that historically correct for a measure...

Minor Nitpick:Ini sebenarnya lambang ITB :laugh4: cuman karena pajajaran ngga ada data lambangnya... dan arcanya ditemuin banyak di bandung, (terutama di belakang Sabuga)... yaudah, kita pake buat lambang Pajajaran... lu pasti ketawa ngakak kalo liat ini karena tau ini kan lambang ITB!!!:
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logopajajaran.jpg

Sampai warna backgroundnya warna jaket almamater gw....

[G. Septimus]

@Lesmana: welcome, (untunglah ada org indo lagi, kirain cuma kt ber3 ama kakek2 yg namanya bmollsom
)
@ Wolf: that's why it looks so Familliar
I got a list of heroes:
Cornelis de Houtmann(VOC)
Command: 4
Loyalty: 7
Management: 6

Imam Bonjol (for Padangese Faction)- at that time their were 2 Padangese Factions,
The Paderi, and the other one that uses white clothes under Imam Bonjol
Command: 5
Loyalty: 5
Management: 6

If u can add piety. Points, it would be better
Traits; (if u can change/ add traits, u should add these)
-Padangsmen ( 3 piety-muslim 2 command)
Ancillaries: ( it would be better if there's some piety points)
Spice Trader (3 management)- for Europeans
- Priest of Ganesha (2 management) for Hindhu
- Missionary of Christ (2 managements 3 loyalty) for christians
- skilled sailor ( 1 Command against rebels)
- Indochinan Turncoat (1 command aginst Indochinans)

[Cute Wolf]

Good Job Gaius....... Your input about European explorers are good, because we'll try to spawn each one of them in the script, and it was you who decide their traits... but Imam Bonjol? He lived and fight in 1810++, making him completely out of our timeline... even we couldn't script the birth of Sultan Iskandar muda, Sultan Agung, and Sultan Baabulah, because they aren't present at the timeline, and their ancestors may revert to Hinduism or become Christians, depending on what you play...

But then, we could script non-royal related Heroes as spawned character that depends on some circumstances:

For Example

Untung Surapati, he'll be spawned if:
- The Faction is either Kasultanan Jawi, or Pajajaran, who at that time (1683) must own Cirebon
- The Faction leader must be either Islam or Hindu (He was originally Hindu, but he converted to Islam as Sultan Purbaya adopt him as a son) - in this game, he'll lead the rebellion if the religion of the leader is not a christian...
- The Faction in question must be at war with any European Factions
- Sunda Kelapa must be in European hands
*) when spawned, he'll also spawned with a full stack silver chevroned units so he could instantly lead an attack, and to emulate that he was allready a formiddable rebel leader.
Source: Babad Tanah Jawi & Babad Suropati, the latter depicts his conversion occured prior to become Prince Purbaya's adoption, but not before he escape from his Dutch lord.

Jaka Tingkir, he'll be spawned if:
- The faction is Kasultanan Jawi, at that time 1532, must own Pajang
- The Faction Leader must be Islam, and has great influence (5 or more)
- Kasultanan Jawi must be at war with any European Factions
*) when spawned, he'll be spawned only with his bodyguards, but they had gold chevrons allready.
Source: Babad Tanah Jawi

Arung Pallaka, he'll be spawned if:
- The Faction is Makkasar, at the time 1654, must own Bone
- The Faction leader is Christian and or Makkasar is Allied with the Dutch (only one condition need to be happened to get Aru Pallaka spawned as Makkasar general.)
*) If the condition is not fullfilled, Aru Palaka will be spawned as Rebel leader if Makkasar was at war with the Dutch and didn't own Bone (as happened in history)
*) When spawned, he'll get a stack of fully equipped, majority europan styled army. if he was spawned as rebels, he get several comrades with him...
Source: Bone literature http://www.4dw.net/royalark/Indonesia/bone3.htm
notes: Actually he was Dutch collaborationist :sweatdrop: but for the sake of Historical probability, he'll put his service in Makkasar if they turn into a Christian kingdom, or allied with the Dutch

and much more... that's why I read many historical accounts :egypt:

[G. Septimus]

OOh, sorry , Wolf,
got some other heroes and some fixes:

Cornelis de houtman
will spawn in June, 1596, arriving from the south-west (from Madagascar) with these units:
-Cornelis de Houtman (General's bodyguard, if we are able to dismount the general, but still a family member, it'll be better)
land units:
-Arquibusers x 3
-Musketeers x 2
-Burgher Footmen x 4
ships:under admiral Van Kligen
-Carrack x 1 (40 men)-historically it was the Dufyken, Houtman's ship -> picture: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/RG_Duyfken_Fetching.jpg/300px-RG_Duyfken_Fetching.jpg
-3 other light ships
another expedition will come again in 1598 , under
the more-powerful General:
Jacob van Neck
Command:6
Management: 6
Loyalty: 5
with these units:
-Pikemen x 5
-Jacob Van Neck (mounted general)
-Musketeers x 3
-Burgher Pikemen x 2
-Bassilisk (light cannon)x2
ships:
-Grande Carrack (80 men) x1 (admiral Van der wit)
-2 Carracks
-2 Gun Holks
they will land at Maluku, arriving from the west

[G. Septimus]

Flags:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/albums/thumbs/2/8364bc1183ebc91e883ffe3161db4ab4_2006.jpg?dl=1259339348
East Indian Company
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/albums/thumbs/2/40e70fbaeac11a89c884632aae1a901a_2007.jpg?dl=1259339348
Dutch East Indian Company/ VOC
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/albums/thumbs/2/aec26967f00520787718fd97736f8c3b_2009.jpg?dl=1259339431
Portugal-arrives in Maluku, Ternate, and Tidore main rival of Spain
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=258&pictureid=2008
Kingdom of New Spain-Arrives in Maluku, Ternate, and Tidore, main rival of Portugal

[Cute Wolf]

Oh right! Now I think about two types of Bodyguards for each factions (but then, some certain similar cultured factions will share bodyguards of course)

For Native factions:
- Infantry (armoured heavy infantry) as the guard of the Royalty
- Mounted (maybe melee, chariot, or missile) for the recruited generals, as well as the AI case, the scripted to spawn generals... as historical evidence says that the career generals usually moved to encourage and help his troops (implied they get a cavalry bodyguards for mobility), and usually (with some notable exception), the Royalty just sit back and encircled by his bodyguards (notice: in Babad Tanah Jawi it written as "Lungguh ing Patilesan" means LITERALLY SIT ON SHOULDER MOUNTED CART, watching the battle rages... lazy coward rulers :furious3:... so they got infantry bodyguards.

For Europeans:
- Musket armed Infantry bodyguards... (renamed Family Members as Civilian Officials) for those born in the family tree
- Cavalry, just like the ETW bodyguards, albeit with better stats :p

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Good luck with this mod! :2thumbsup:

[G. Septimus]

Good luck with this mod! :2thumbsup:
can you help us????????????
:help::beam:

[wlesmana]

Hahaha, ITB faction :laugh4:

I'm afraid I'm pretty pressed for time for another mod. I'm already finding it hard to find time for my own little mod. I can offer help in simple stuff, like faction symbols and such. I might be able to help with some preliminary unit models just so you guys got something to show. Just get me reference pictures.

[Cute Wolf]

Hahaha, ITB faction :laugh4:

I'm afraid I'm pretty pressed for time for another mod. I'm already finding it hard to find time for my own little mod. I can offer help in simple stuff, like faction symbols and such. I might be able to help with some preliminary unit models just so you guys got something to show. Just get me reference pictures.

Yeah, I know that you're the one that made great LOTR related mods, and you must be very busy :)
(Still sketching soldiers' models on paper and pencil... and waiting Sonic to finish his research on Gunners and halberdiers...)

[G. Septimus]

Hahaha, ITB faction :laugh4:

I'm afraid I'm pretty pressed for time for another mod. I'm already finding it hard to find time for my own little mod. I can offer help in simple stuff, like faction symbols and such. I might be able to help with some preliminary unit models just so you guys got something to show. Just get me reference pictures.
For Reference for European Units, we should see it at the M2TW database at:
http://totalwar.honga.net/versions.php?
There's a bunch of info including Kingdoms expansion,
And mods such as Stainless Steal, and TATW

[G. Septimus]

OK,
I got anothr hero idea:
Sultan Hassanudin, for Goa-Talo,
-spawned if vOC's Monopoly Trade has reached Goa-Talo
-also spawned as a normal Family Member with high Standards

[Cute Wolf]

OK,
I got anothr hero idea:
Sultan Hassanudin, for Goa-Talo,
-spawned if vOC's Monopoly Trade has reached Goa-Talo
-also spawned as a normal Family Member with high Standards

Hmmm.... it should be a bit Intriguing... because He was a royalty, but from another branch of Makkasar nobility (the starting FM will be descendants of Batara Gowa Tuminanga ri Paralakkenna, 9 generations before his rule, and they are still a Hinduist that time)... maybe we can spawn him if Makkasar is At war with the Dutch, the Faction leader is Islam (his paternal grandfather are married to the royalty and convert to Islam - before that he was born as Hinduist as well), but it wasn't guaranteed that he'll be adopted and become normal Family member afterall..... so he can't designated as heir, and never become "Karaeng" or Faction leader in Makkasar faction (which encompass all main kingdoms in south sulawesi and its suzerainity)

[Cute Wolf]

For Reference for European Units, we should see it at the M2TW database at:
http://totalwar.honga.net/versions.php?
There's a bunch of info including Kingdoms expansion,
And mods such as Stainless Steal, and TATW

Oh yeah, I almost completely forgot! The muslim-turkish-influenced army of Acehnese, and later Hardline sultanates as well.... we need more research... (not just place some desert infantry, but try to found them in the local literature (sejarah melayu, hikayat tuanku, hikayat hang tuah... dst)...

And remember only to carry european troop type that well-suited to fight in tropical cities (use logic), unless the literature indicate otherwise... Heavy armoured cavalry such as Gendarmes is obviously at huge disadvantage in tropical battles, but the Spaniards DID employ them here... :clown: :dizzy2: ... the "Ternate dan Tidore, Masa Lalu Penuh Gejolak" did mention that Spanish armies employ big cavalrymen clad entirely in armour, leaving only his eyes, while the majority of Spanish Cavalry are armed with javelins and ride local horses provided by their Tidore allies... that should be Gendarmes and Jinetes!!!! :smash:

:yes:

EDIT: This thread is cross posted (and re arranged) at TWC too... hoping to gain some additional members, not just 3 of us...

[Cute Wolf]

Update Update... my Faction Symbol research is updated!!!

Sulu: The official seal of Sulu Sultanate
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logosulu.jpg

Banjar: Rhino (Many Rhino sculptures was found arround 14& 15th century)
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logobanjar.jpg

Gowa-Makkasar: Rooster found in Gowa royal seal
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logogowamakkasar.jpg

Moloku Kie Raha Ternate: Pari Fish (Manta), found in Ternate city symbol today
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logoternate.jpg

Bajak Laut (Sea Warriors): Yes yes, this is a ship.....
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logobajaklaut.jpg

Siam: Thailand Royal seal
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logosiam.jpg

Khmer: Angkor Wat
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logokhmer.jpg

Campa: Shivabuddha
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logocampa.jpg

Yay..... all native Factions Finished... just waiting Gaius Septimus Severus validate the European symbol :yes:

[Cute Wolf]

Now, about the map.... here goes my "Chubbified And Somewhat Hooribly Packed" map concept..... :sweatdrop:

To reach certain hardcoded limit about map land and sea area comparison, I made some thickening of the map... well, this certainly ain't the final version, but I need input and critics from experienced map makers, what Island(s) should I made fatter? I allready made Java fatter by 200%, and another Islands is fatter too.....

https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/MainMapChubby.jpg

[G. Septimus]

Flags:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/albums/thumbs/2/8364bc1183ebc91e883ffe3161db4ab4_2006.jpg?dl=1259339348
East Indian Company
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/albums/thumbs/2/40e70fbaeac11a89c884632aae1a901a_2007.jpg?dl=1259339348
Dutch East Indian Company/ VOC
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/albums/thumbs/2/aec26967f00520787718fd97736f8c3b_2009.jpg?dl=1259339431
Portugal-arrives in Maluku, Ternate, and Tidore main rival of Spain
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=258&pictureid=2008
Kingdom of New Spain-Arrives in Maluku, Ternate, and Tidore, main rival of Portugal
These are the flags, EIC, Spain, Portugal, but I think i need to make the VOC bigger

[Cute Wolf]

Ok GSS, So, All the faction symbols is finished (creating 4 European faction symbol is just copypasta now...)

Btw, I merge some more islands, and to got the land to sea ratio as close as possible, I made 2 unacessed blocks, (maybe will use plain black tile, and act as european horde arrival point before teleport.....

Which one is better?

This
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/MainMapSkewed.jpg

Or the map before?

[G. Septimus]

Routes of Europeans:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=258&pictureid=2023
Black: early expeditions by Cornelis de Houtmann (VOC)
Blue: Later expeditions by Jacob van Neck (VOC)
Yellow: Spanish
Lavender: Portugish
note: French, and Brits will come to Indonesia in the early 1600's

[G. Septimus]

Ok GSS, So, All the faction symbols is finished (creating 4 European faction symbol is just copypasta now...)

Btw, I merge some more islands, and to got the land to sea ratio as close as possible, I made 2 unacessed blocks, (maybe will use plain black tile, and act as european horde arrival point before teleport.....

Which one is better?

This
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/MainMapSkewed.jpg

Or the map before?

Europeans won't come from the North-West, they come, either from South America, or From Madagascar

[Cute Wolf]

Horde arrival is made by emerging faction events, and MUST be on the land edge of the map (in RTW / M2TW, We can't made sea faring horde directly to the sea, they must spawn at a land first....)

So the "European Arrival" is not by ship, but by teleport (in script), and their ship is SPAWNED nearby them, to emulate they are arriving by ships....

Oh yeah, just got confirmation that the first map won't work, as we need +/- 70% Land area on the map.... We gonna use the second one... (don't worry, the two imaginary landmases will made into desert, and desert tiles will be coloured black, so they are technically part of the map, but visually out of the map :yes:

Now, we gotta fill the cities we should include, up to 192 cities for sure (200 is the hardcoded region limit, but we got 2 cities inacessible for both land, and 1 is used as sea... 5 maybe used for buffer, so 192 cities....) got any suggestion for those cities Gaius? Sonic?

[G. Septimus]

LOOK HERE!!!!!!!!!
for JAVA
THE MAP HAS BEEN ERASED and has been saved by CW

[G. Septimus]

Sorry, it's too big, can't get a smaller Resulotion
for Sumatera:
http://indahnesia.com/Images/Information/SUM/SUM_16th_century_map.jpg

[Cute Wolf]

Yeah... thanks.... after checking that names in Babad Tanah Jawi, I've got several important cities that should be included...

And faction owner at the start

Java
West Java:
- Cirebon -> Pajajaran
- Sunda Kelapa (now Jakarta) - Pajajaran
- Banten - Pajajaran
- Sukakerta (now Tasikmalaya) - Pajajaran
Central Java:
- Demak - > Kasultanan Jawi
- Mataram (sekarang Yogyakarta) -> Majapahit
- Pajang (sekarang di utaranya Surakarta) -> Kasultanan Jawi
- Purwokerto -> Majapahit
- Bonang (now Rembang) -> Kasultanan Jawi
East Java:
- Majapahit -> Majapahit
- Ampel ( now near Surabaya -> Kasultanan Jawi
- Pamekasan (now Madura island) -> Majapahit
- Kediri -> Majapahit
- Daha -> (West of madiun) -> Kesultanan Jawi
Bali:
- Bedahulu

Yeah, at least our mod have much progress now...

[G. Septimus]

Yeah... thanks.... after checking that names in Babad Tanah Jawi, I've got several important cities that should be included...

And faction owner at the start

Java
West Java:
- Cirebon -> Pajajaran
- Sunda Kelapa (now Jakarta) - Pajajaran
- Banten - Pajajaran
- Sukakerta (now Tasikmalaya) - Pajajaran
Central Java:
- Demak - > Kasultanan Jawi
- Mataram (sekarang Yogyakarta) -> Majapahit
- Pajang (sekarang di utaranya Surakarta) -> Kasultanan Jawi
- Purwokerto -> Majapahit
- Bonang (now Rembang) -> Kasultanan Jawi
East Java:
- Majapahit -> Majapahit
- Ampel ( now near Surabaya -> Kasultanan Jawi
- Pamekasan (now Madura island) -> Majapahit
- Kediri -> Majapahit
- Daha -> (West of madiun) -> Kesultanan Jawi
Bali:
- Bedahulu

Yeah, at least our mod have much progress now...
so, Bedahulu is a rebel city???????????
in 1596, Cornelis made the Dutch Fort (really, wooden castle in M2TW) Buitenzorg, now Bogor, West Java

[Cute Wolf]

so, Bedahulu is a rebel city???????????
in 1596, Cornelis made the Dutch Fort (really, wooden castle in M2TW) Buitenzorg, now Bogor, West Java

Oh, lol... I forgot to give Bali city Majapahit ownership....
Butenzorg remain just a fort for 300 years, and Java Island is relatively small, so 13-14 regions is allready busy (compare that with Italian peninsulla on EB)

Oh yeah, and hope we got some reply at the TWC http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=313706
after verifying the 70% Land ratio (or verivy not) I'll gonna made the map....

Yeah... better determine the city first, and now, how about some Sumateran cities?

North Sumatera:
- Kutaraja (now Banda Aceh) -> Aceh
- Pasai -> Aceh
.....
Central Sumatera:
- Palembang -> Sriwijaya
-
....
Far South Sumatera:
-
-
.....

any suggestion?

[Cute Wolf]

I've allready made some sketch of Javanese Soldiers:

Both in 2 skin version, for Starting as Muslim dominated factions, and for starting as Hindu-Buddhist dominated factions. One wearing light clothes, and one bare chested and muscled. - In Babad Tanah Jawi, when Fatahillah assault Sunda Kelapa, the Javanese Spearmen on the Pajajaran Side was clearly depicted as fought bare chested, when the muslims depicted wearing shirts.... Even in Negarakertagama, the lowest militia fought bare chested (only said they are wearing kain arround their waist, and trousers, carrying bamboo anyaman shields, armed with bows, goloks and tombak spears)

The Javanese militia usually fought with shortbows and golok (a heavy, thick, long knive, used for agricultural properties), the golok is technically an armor piercing shortsword, because it was heavy enough to dent steel sheet with its sheer weight.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=147&pictureid=2024

And this is the Spear Militia version, they are actually a very good spearmen that even capable to hold and repel Portugese pikemen when they attack Sunda Kelapa. Oh yeah, and maybe for some variation in skins, the hindu-buddhist may get a light sleeveless cloth (not too bare chested), and the Muslims got koko cloth.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=147&pictureid=2025

What did u think?

Maybe I'll update with more my unit concept.

About the elite & Nobility's armour, before the arrival of europeans, Hindu-Buddhist nobles fought in Steel and Brass armour, while the Muslims in Aceh fought in Middle Eastern styled chainmail armour. Their contact will eventually bring a bit of crossdressing between them. Movies and Films that depicts the nobility fought bare chested and unaroured are just a myth, because we also have their ancient armour at museum... they only rarely wears helmets, because it was indicate bravery, as well as method of recognition (the Hindu-Buddhist soldiers usually set their hair free, or tie in a topknot, while the Muslims youth mostly cut their hair.

[G. Septimus]

I've allready made some sketch of Javanese Soldiers:

Both in 2 skin version, for Starting as Muslim dominated factions, and for starting as Hindu-Buddhist dominated factions. One wearing light clothes, and one bare chested and muscled. - In Babad Tanah Jawi, when Fatahillah assault Sunda Kelapa, the Javanese Spearmen on the Pajajaran Side was clearly depicted as fought bare chested, when the muslims depicted wearing shirts.... Even in Negarakertagama, the lowest militia fought bare chested (only said they are wearing kain arround their waist, and trousers, carrying bamboo anyaman shields, armed with bows, goloks and tombak spears)

The Javanese militia usually fought with shortbows and golok (a heavy, thick, long knive, used for agricultural properties), the golok is technically an armor piercing shortsword, because it was heavy enough to dent steel sheet with its sheer weight.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=147&pictureid=2024

And this is the Spear Militia version, they are actually a very good spearmen that even capable to hold and repel Portugese pikemen when they attack Sunda Kelapa. Oh yeah, and maybe for some variation in skins, the hindu-buddhist may get a light sleeveless cloth (not too bare chested), and the Muslims got koko cloth.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=147&pictureid=2025

What did u think?

Maybe I'll update with more my unit concept.

About the elite & Nobility's armour, before the arrival of europeans, Hindu-Buddhist nobles fought in Steel and Brass armour, while the Muslims in Aceh fought in Middle Eastern styled chainmail armour. Their contact will eventually bring a bit of crossdressing between them. Movies and Films that depicts the nobility fought bare chested and unaroured are just a myth, because we also have their ancient armour at museum... they only rarely wears helmets, because it was indicate bravery, as well as method of recognition (the Hindu-Buddhist soldiers usually set their hair free, or tie in a topknot, while the Muslims youth mostly cut their hair.

we could use woad Warriors as base for Majapahit,
for Papuans, NUbian spearmen, and Cavalry.

http://hal_macgregor.tripod.com/gregor/Chariot.gif
this should be what a General's bodyguard will look like. 1 chariot=2 men, at the GEneral's chariot, there's gonna be 3, 2 Archers, and the General

[Cute Wolf]

No... Chariot is valued as frontline shock troops, and well, they are lead by Lesser Nobility... the higher Nobility rode Elephants!!! Well, I didn't want to just used RTW Models, they'll look ridiculous, especially their face is too caucasian, I'll use sonic's face as template for javanese army face if he's thinner (Sonic is really fat and I can't use my face because I'm chineese-dutch descendants, it will be funny I know, but unhistorical to have entire javanese army comprised of three quarter chineese, and a bit dutch)... How about your face??? (I'll try to get my friends' face too...)

And the bodyguards is clearly depicted as Infantry surround their generals in Babad Tanah Jawi, holding their generals in shoulder mounted carts if he was a royal family member, and just spent entire battle watching and directing, except when his line is broken, he'll dismount and fight on foot... (lazy royal blooded generals), only lesser career generals rode their horses / elephants into the battle from the frontline.

Oh yeah, Papuans are definitely different from africans, we must made entirely new models, and can't copy another mod's models because they don't have soldiers who wear batik skirt on their trousers... or having keris and Javanese styled bows for nobility (almost like a composite bows, but made from bamboo fibers, the commoners use wodden self-bows) Oh yeah, some tribal AOR soldiers will be depicted nude... or with loinclothes.

maybe the only vanilla models we'll use is horses, elephants, chariots, and perhaps Roman Peasants / Archers, because they could easily modified to wear blangkon and trousers....

[G. Septimus]

Nubian Spearmen really look like Papuans, they're really black

[Cute Wolf]

Papuans will only present in some AOR units.... maybe blowgunmen (tulup), papuan javelinmen (I think of Dani and Augamune Javelinmen as they are mentioned several times as highly sought mercenaries), and maybe some berserker-swordsmen.

[Rahwana]

Wow, you guys do anything fast....

And CuteWolf's face is really ridiculous on any of the Native troops... :laugh4: nothing will made any mod players ROFL when they see a chineese-dutch boys acts as native spearmen...

But now I present my research on Gunners, but I still amazed about their stats, but at least the historical evidences said: (unlike what Cute Wolf said previously, the arquebus is used, but really less effective as their ammo will have less power ad range... but they are still used because even the europeans know nothing more...) and the natives allready have matchlock handguns too, brought by Chineese and Arab Traders, and manufactured locally. Flintlock mechanisms (which in turns made massed gun as line infantry available), are late innovation and not included in this mod... and even I just know that in 15,16, and 17th century, terms musketters often used as specialized gun troopers who doing the skirmishing jobs...

Colonial Gunners (80 men)
-> European horde infantry armed with what so called gun... either matchlock arquebus, or pooly tuned muskets. Inaccurate and should be used only when necessary, they are the settlers that hope to get easy riches on tropical colony, and will be disbanded when they arrive in their new lands.

Arquebusiers (81 men)
-> Basic Gun armed infantry for most europeans, they have fear effects, but less range compared to crossbows, and the high humidity and usual rains render their blackpowder ineffective... because their matchlock compartements is easily pernetated by water vapors... at least they are still professional troops and highly disciplined.

Portugese Arquebusiers (81 men)
-> Basic Portugese gun infantry, with poor shooting skills, but wear heavy armours and more than eager to fight in melee (partly because their gun are often clogged in the tropics)

Skirmish Musketters (50 men)
-> Musketters are gunners equipped with better guns, who had better range, and as they fought in tropics, their matchlock guns often has extra tar and grease fixings to portect the powder compartement against humidity, and the richer often use whell-lock guns for better protection against dampness. Because of their exspensive upgrades on their guns, they are trained to shoot in considerably long range, and hence often used as early sharpshooters, before the real sharpshooters are available.

Frontiersmen (30 men) - 2 HP
-> Trained european men used to survive in the wild of unknown lands, and hostile natives, they are equipped with guns they often take care specially, and often rely on their whell-lock guns to do most of their killings. They can be used for counter ambush, as they know how to hide well in the wilderness, and their experience with nasty natives often gives them exceptional hand to hand fighting prowess with their swords.

Sharpshooters (40 men)
-> Sharpshooters are hghly trained with their often custom made guns, effectife in eliminating their enemies in extremely long range, they are quite exspensive soldiers though, and didn't fare well in melee....

Company Sharpshooters (52 men) -----
-> Company Sharpshooters are Dutch men trained in Sharpshooters tactics, and paid to doing so as the guardsmen of the VOC cargo, sightly more numerous than their fellow sharpshooters counterpart, and has somewhat better skill in melee, thanks to their nasty experience against native raids.

Militia Musketters (60 men)
-> These men are former colonial gunners, that gain better guns, and often used for sharpshooting enemy leaders if the real sharpshooters aren't present. They rely on guns as their only true kind of weapons, and despite carrying swords, they didn't have any real skill to use it....

Laskar Bedil (61 men)
-> Majapahit, Kasultanan Jawi, and almost all the natives had enough time against mongol invasion in 13th century, and more time to trade with chineese and Arabs, as such, even in the old Sriwijayan army, lies several troops trained to use chineese/arab matchlock guns, and they are really used to great effect, as Pieter Both mentioned that Mollucans and Bugis traders allready have guards who carry guns... But battle accounts said that they are just mediocre shooters, and many relied on their better than average skill in close combat.

Petembak Locok (81 men)
-> Aceh, Malaka, and nearly everyone who has significant muslim influence will have another approcah to get gunners on their side... they are directly adopt Ottoman tactics and drills, and even Portugese and Spanish soldiers face these men in battle will tell that they are somewhat similar with gunners from andalusia in tactics, discipline, and strategy. Historically, the refugees from Andalusia, when flying against Spanish Inquistition, go to the north africa, and then most made their hijrah to aceh. They still leave visible remnants in the genetics of Acehnese people, having some blond and blue eyes, especially seen in Aceh Jaya city, at the Al-Andalus sector, where most of their descendants still lies here until today....

Laskar Uthmani (62 men)
-> These men are elite Aceh gunners, trained directly with Turkish methods, they are highly capable gunmen, able to shoot imressively accurate in considerable range, even when compared with their european rivals.

Kallona ri Bugis (91 men)
-> Even before the arrival of the europeans, Bugis mariners allready equipped themself in firearms, mostly learned against the army of Imperial China, they are essentialy a close quarter gunners, well suited to take close actions when boarding enemy ships, but more than reliable to fight on land. Armed with close compartment matchlock pistols, they have shorter range than most gunners do, but then they are used to launch some gun volleys and then charge forward with their badik swords. (well, the only gun infantry who has gun as precursor weapons)

Kroco Lantak (100 men)
-> The most common, and numerous native gunners, while didn't have good melee prowess as the laskar bedhil do, they are armed with standardized guns, often fashioned from chineese and arab styled guns, rather than european style. They are relatively short-ranged, but often crucial to provide effective counters against supperior, but less numerous european gunners. They are largely untrained, and just know how to fire their guns and run afterwards, as guns is exspensive, but can be effectively used by militia.

Reformed Native Gunners (92 men)
-> They are professional gunners, trained in European ways, and despite outnumbered by Kroco gunners, they are disciplined and has regular drill, making them on par with the europeans, and often get advantage because they has better numbers. Trainable only in heavily europeanized / christianized area.

Native Gunners (92 men)
-> European trained natives as gunners, raied by European for their effective ranged garrison army.

Mercenary Colonial Gunmen (80 men)
-> Mercenary version of european colonial gunners

=== not much sure about another mercenary gunmen though... maybe added later

[Rahwana]

Yeah... not much sure about another unit type, Cutewolf, GSS... I have really no Idea when reading these sastra writings, when I found soo much gunner type that could be derived, especially in Aceh-Malayan-Bugis Muslim society... and about the hindu-buddhist kingdom's gunners, they are rather india and chineese influenced... even demak and pajang (Kasultanan Jawi in this mod), didn't have much arabian influence on their gun army... well, guns made me confused...

Now, I'll read about more traditional troop lists, you can still suggest some gunmen afterwards, but I think this is time to focus on traditional minded troops....

[G. Septimus]

Yeah... not much sure about another unit type, Cutewolf, GSS... I have really no Idea when reading these sastra writings, when I found soo much gunner type that could be derived, especially in Aceh-Malayan-Bugis Muslim society... and about the hindu-buddhist kingdom's gunners, they are rather india and chineese influenced... even demak and pajang (Kasultanan Jawi in this mod), didn't have much arabian influence on their gun army... well, guns made me confused...

Now, I'll read about more traditional troop lists, you can still suggest some gunmen afterwards, but I think this is time to focus on traditional minded troops....
Maybe we should apply guns for Traditional factions when:
1. They make alliances with The Europeans
2. They made a trade with THe Europeans
3. they are Protectorates (like S.Hassanudin's enemy, Arupalaka)

[G. Septimus]

Wow, you guys do anything fast....

And CuteWolf's face is really ridiculous on any of the Native troops... :laugh4: nothing will made any mod players ROFL when they see a chineese-dutch boys acts as native spearmen...

But now I present my research on Gunners, but I still amazed about their stats, but at least the historical evidences said: (unlike what Cute Wolf said previously, the arquebus is used, but really less effective as their ammo will have less power ad range... but they are still used because even the europeans know nothing more...) and the natives allready have matchlock handguns too, brought by Chineese and Arab Traders, and manufactured locally. Flintlock mechanisms (which in turns made massed gun as line infantry available), are late innovation and not included in this mod... and even I just know that in 15,16, and 17th century, terms musketters often used as specialized gun troopers who doing the skirmishing jobs...

Colonial Gunners (80 men)
-> European horde infantry armed with what so called gun... either matchlock arquebus, or pooly tuned muskets. Inaccurate and should be used only when necessary, they are the settlers that hope to get easy riches on tropical colony, and will be disbanded when they arrive in their new lands.

Arquebusiers (81 men)
-> Basic Gun armed infantry for most europeans, they have fear effects, but less range compared to crossbows, and the high humidity and usual rains render their blackpowder ineffective... because their matchlock compartements is easily pernetated by water vapors... at least they are still professional troops and highly disciplined.

Portugese Arquebusiers (81 men)
-> Basic Portugese gun infantry, with poor shooting skills, but wear heavy armours and more than eager to fight in melee (partly because their gun are often clogged in the tropics)

Skirmish Musketters (50 men)
-> Musketters are gunners equipped with better guns, who had better range, and as they fought in tropics, their matchlock guns often has extra tar and grease fixings to portect the powder compartement against humidity, and the richer often use whell-lock guns for better protection against dampness. Because of their exspensive upgrades on their guns, they are trained to shoot in considerably long range, and hence often used as early sharpshooters, before the real sharpshooters are available.

Frontiersmen (30 men) - 2 HP
-> Trained european men used to survive in the wild of unknown lands, and hostile natives, they are equipped with guns they often take care specially, and often rely on their whell-lock guns to do most of their killings. They can be used for counter ambush, as they know how to hide well in the wilderness, and their experience with nasty natives often gives them exceptional hand to hand fighting prowess with their swords.

Sharpshooters (40 men)
-> Sharpshooters are hghly trained with their often custom made guns, effectife in eliminating their enemies in extremely long range, they are quite exspensive soldiers though, and didn't fare well in melee....

Company Sharpshooters (52 men) -----
-> Company Sharpshooters are Dutch men trained in Sharpshooters tactics, and paid to doing so as the guardsmen of the VOC cargo, sightly more numerous than their fellow sharpshooters counterpart, and has somewhat better skill in melee, thanks to their nasty experience against native raids.

Militia Musketters (60 men)
-> These men are former colonial gunners, that gain better guns, and often used for sharpshooting enemy leaders if the real sharpshooters aren't present. They rely on guns as their only true kind of weapons, and despite carrying swords, they didn't have any real skill to use it....

Laskar Bedil (61 men)
-> Majapahit, Kasultanan Jawi, and almost all the natives had enough time against mongol invasion in 13th century, and more time to trade with chineese and Arabs, as such, even in the old Sriwijayan army, lies several troops trained to use chineese/arab matchlock guns, and they are really used to great effect, as Pieter Both mentioned that Mollucans and Bugis traders allready have guards who carry guns... But battle accounts said that they are just mediocre shooters, and many relied on their better than average skill in close combat.

Petembak Locok (81 men)
-> Aceh, Malaka, and nearly everyone who has significant muslim influence will have another approcah to get gunners on their side... they are directly adopt Ottoman tactics and drills, and even Portugese and Spanish soldiers face these men in battle will tell that they are somewhat similar with gunners from andalusia in tactics, discipline, and strategy. Historically, the refugees from Andalusia, when flying against Spanish Inquistition, go to the north africa, and then most made their hijrah to aceh. They still leave visible remnants in the genetics of Acehnese people, having some blond and blue eyes, especially seen in Aceh Jaya city, at the Al-Andalus sector, where most of their descendants still lies here until today....

Laskar Uthmani (62 men)
-> These men are elite Aceh gunners, trained directly with Turkish methods, they are highly capable gunmen, able to shoot imressively accurate in considerable range, even when compared with their european rivals.

Kallona ri Bugis (91 men)
-> Even before the arrival of the europeans, Bugis mariners allready equipped themself in firearms, mostly learned against the army of Imperial China, they are essentialy a close quarter gunners, well suited to take close actions when boarding enemy ships, but more than reliable to fight on land. Armed with close compartment matchlock pistols, they have shorter range than most gunners do, but then they are used to launch some gun volleys and then charge forward with their badik swords. (well, the only gun infantry who has gun as precursor weapons)

Kroco Lantak (100 men)
-> The most common, and numerous native gunners, while didn't have good melee prowess as the laskar bedhil do, they are armed with standardized guns, often fashioned from chineese and arab styled guns, rather than european style. They are relatively short-ranged, but often crucial to provide effective counters against supperior, but less numerous european gunners. They are largely untrained, and just know how to fire their guns and run afterwards, as guns is exspensive, but can be effectively used by militia.

Reformed Native Gunners (92 men)
-> They are professional gunners, trained in European ways, and despite outnumbered by Kroco gunners, they are disciplined and has regular drill, making them on par with the europeans, and often get advantage because they has better numbers. Trainable only in heavily europeanized / christianized area.

Native Gunners (92 men)
-> European trained natives as gunners, raied by European for their effective ranged garrison army.

Mercenary Colonial Gunmen (80 men)
-> Mercenary version of european colonial gunners

=== not much sure about another mercenary gunmen though... maybe added later

We should make the Gameplay settings to "Normal" for the numbers of troops, no army that
time could assemble an army so big, Make it Normal (80 men=40 men):beam:

Mercenary Colonial Gunmen (80 men)
-> Mercenary version of european colonial gunners
Natives could'nt "hire" Gunmen easily, so it must be set in a high Price (1500)

maybe some Elephants would be good to add here,
now, what will the General's Bodyguard be?????
this is my Suggestion:
-Euro:
Cavalry (like all General's Bodyguard Normally)
Armoured Swordsmen (like Agema, used for explorers such as de Houtmann)

-Javanese:
Cavalry

-South Sumatera(sriwijaya):
sumatran Elephants


OO yeah, got a list of euro units ready for Balancing:

-Armoured bodyguard, heavy infantry(for Cornelis de Houtmann)
Faction: VOC
weapon: Rapier
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Rapiere-img_0093.jpg/180px-Rapiere-img_0093.jpg
-Swordsmen Militia , Light infantry

Def: full-plated armor
faction: all euro

-Swords and Bucklermen/, Heavy INfantry
faction: all euro
Wep: Sword
Def: Shield, Metal Vest

-Dragoons, Missile Cavalry
pierces armour
weapon: Gunpowder
Def: Body Armor, metal helmet

I'll draw those units, I'll upload it someday.....

[Cute Wolf]

Maybe we should apply guns for Traditional factions when:
1. They make alliances with The Europeans
2. They made a trade with THe Europeans
3. they are Protectorates (like S.Hassanudin's enemy, Arupalaka)

Hey, he said that traditional factions got guns from Chinese and Arabs, europeans aren't needed....


We should make the Gameplay settings to "Normal" for the numbers of troops, no army that
time could assemble an army so big, Make it Normal (80 men=40 men):beam:

Mercenary Colonial Gunmen (80 men)
-> Mercenary version of european colonial gunners
Natives could'nt "hire" Gunmen easily, so it must be set in a high Price (1500)

maybe some Elephants would be good to add here,
now, what will the General's Bodyguard be?????
this is my Suggestion:
-Euro:
Cavalry (like all General's Bodyguard Normally)
Armoured Swordsmen (like Agema, used for explorers such as de Houtmann)

-Javanese:
Cavalry

-South Sumatera(sriwijaya):
sumatran Elephants


OO yeah, got a list of euro units ready for Balancing:

-Armoured bodyguard, heavy infantry(for Cornelis de Houtmann)
Faction: VOC
weapon: Rapier
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Rapiere-img_0093.jpg/180px-Rapiere-img_0093.jpg
-Swordsmen Militia , Light infantry

Def: full-plated armor
faction: all euro

-Swords and Bucklermen/, Heavy INfantry
faction: all euro
Wep: Sword
Def: Shield, Metal Vest

-Dragoons, Missile Cavalry
pierces armour
weapon: Gunpowder
Def: Body Armor, metal helmet

I'll draw those units, I'll upload it someday.....

Swords and bucklermen are Spanish Rodeleros, the English got armoured swordsmen, and the other two faction maybe have sightly inferior swords unit. And they can't be armed with rapiers, except for officers... because Rapiers are exspensive, and it only useful in duel, as it has long thin blade that easily dent or broken. You have golok or clurit at your home? then imagine the thin blade of Rapier get to be used to parry the heavy blade... they'll be instantly broken -> instant lol :wall:

Gunmen is well known, even the chineese exstensively used it before the european do, but your research carry somewhat contrary ideas.
1. The guns are ineffective, they are often clogged...
2. The guns are widely used...
So what does it means? If they are ineffective, why they are widely used?? = =a

About bodyguards, it was about a matter of debate... but then we may create 2 kind of bodyguards per faction... and the royalty and european officers got heavy infantry, because they are usually only observing battles, and if the line was wavered, they do dismount themself to reinforce their line... because this is not ETW, we can't dismount cavalry on the site, so we use heavy infantry bodyguards. Secondary bodyguards is recruitable to the player, and AI will get em spawned more often.

Oh yeah, GSS & Sonic, about your gunmen lists, I have a suggestion to separate the gun after european type reform, and the native guns... I know that Acehnese allready got many cannons and guns when they first fight portugese army, but I don't know that these men are moorish refuges (sudanese gunners FTW?)... Maybe one mercenary european gunmen is enough, but then we'll made 2 or 3 types of native mercenary guns.... especially I was interested in Korona ni Bugis, because some accounts said they are pirates and mercenaries... maybe we'll made 2 version of them, the supperior goes to Gowa-Makkasar, and pirates as factional army, and the inferior goes as mercenaries... wait, or pirates can train merc version??

[G. Septimus]

There will need to be a reform (If we can make it) of Europeans.
when they came, they still use armor, after the year 1680, they'ii use the ETW unit skins,
with better guns,
like Aquibusers change into Line Infantry, Musketeers-> Colonial Infantry, there will be a Special "Proffesional Army" that will be only loyal to they're General, like the VOC governor, will gain control of the entire VOC Regional commanders, and will introduce a policy the "Kerja Paksa" (hahahah I'll set it in our language, so the downloaders will be confused) in the reform era

[LeftEyeNine]

I like your enthusiasm which should not wane as it will be attracting the interest it deserves provided you're dedicated to produce something indeed. Keep it up.

[Cute Wolf]

Reform for europeans? VOC are more often relied at Native Pikemen and Native Gunmen to do their job... the europeans only formed the professional core of their forces..

EDIT: Oh yeah, this post, I'll announce the European logo... just wait in time when we facelift all the logo into the BI 's game UI!!! :yes:

Spanish:
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logoSpain.jpg

Portugal:
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logoportugal.jpg

English:
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logoenglish.jpg

And finally, after some ridiculous debate.... The Dutch!!!
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logodutch.jpg

[Cute Wolf]

I like your enthusiasm which should not wane as it will be attracting the interest it deserves provided you're dedicated to produce something indeed. Keep it up.

Wow thanks LeftEyeNine....
And how about any experienced map maker... could them lend some suggestions for my map?

[G. Septimus]

And finally, after some ridiculous debate.... The Dutch!!!
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logodutch.jpg

OI!!!!!
where's the blue??????
u need blue for the Dutch!!!!

[Cute Wolf]

Ok, now before the faction facelift will be done, look here at the faction lists... GSS, Sonic, did you agree about this?

Culture:
Jawi = Huns
Melayu = Eastern
Bugis = Nomad (Bajak laut will belongs to Bugis culture, because the Carthaginian cultures are bugged)
Indochina = Barbarian
European = Roman

[Cute Wolf]

OI!!!!!
where's the blue??????
u need blue for the Dutch!!!!

Blue? The Ridiculous debate about the dutch should be Orange dominated (dutch calls themself that time, House of Oranye).... or 3 colour red white blue..... but... what do you think? Well, I'll made 3 colour version for the dutch...

BTW, this is their flag and signature symbol that time... look as they are orange dominated:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Prinsenvlag.svg/125px-Prinsenvlag.svg.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Wapenschild_Republiek_der_Zeven_Verenigde_Nederlanden.gif

Oh yeah, here's the logo proposal...
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/logodutch3colour.jpg

Note:
Not artisticated yet.... they'll be get some canvas effects for the faction symbol

[G. Septimus]

THIS IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cute Wolf]

Nusantara TW Faction Lists (culture look previous posts)

huns = Majapahit
goths = Pajajaran
sarmatians = Sriwijaya
vandals = Kasultanan Jawi
sassanids = Aceh
berbers = Malaka
roxolani = Brunei Darussalam
celts = Sulu
burgundii = Banjar
lombardi = Gowa-Makkasar
ostrogoths = Moluku Kie Raha Ternate
franks = Siam
saxons = Champa
alemanni = Khmer
romano_british = Bajak Laut
empire_east = Dutch
empire_west = England
empire_east_rebels = Portugal
empire_west_rebels = Spain
slavs = (UNUSED, MAYBE WE CAN ADD ONE MORE FACTION?)
slave = Brigands
The entire symbols are:
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/entiresymbols.jpg


I've made the backdrop for the Menu... (made in .TGA file, preview here in .JPG)
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/backdrop.jpg

And for the Historical Battle pics
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/historical_battle_pic.jpg

And The Provincial Campaign
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/provincial_campaign.jpg

Any suggestion?

[G. Septimus]

HEY!!!!! MY MAP!!!!
thx for using it, Wolf

alright, my job ends here for the maps, and Factions,
now let's get to UNIT MODDELING
let's het on to the first 2 factions:
-Majapahit
-Kasultanan Jawi
who's gonna take this job????

the other one is:
Characters, starting characters, and others

[Cute Wolf]

Yeah... about the modelling.... maybe with this we should attract some experienced modellers....

Well, the UI is now complete (but I forgot to hide the slavs though):wall:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=147&pictureid=2027

Maybe we should start recruiting others now, for modelling... or wait until sonic finish his unit research?

EDIT: Both of us are now reading the TWC university archieves...

[wlesmana]

I've allready made some sketch of Javanese Soldiers:

Both in 2 skin version, for Starting as Muslim dominated factions, and for starting as Hindu-Buddhist dominated factions. One wearing light clothes, and one bare chested and muscled. - In Babad Tanah Jawi, when Fatahillah assault Sunda Kelapa, the Javanese Spearmen on the Pajajaran Side was clearly depicted as fought bare chested, when the muslims depicted wearing shirts.... Even in Negarakertagama, the lowest militia fought bare chested (only said they are wearing kain arround their waist, and trousers, carrying bamboo anyaman shields, armed with bows, goloks and tombak spears)

The Javanese militia usually fought with shortbows and golok (a heavy, thick, long knive, used for agricultural properties), the golok is technically an armor piercing shortsword, because it was heavy enough to dent steel sheet with its sheer weight.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=147&pictureid=2024

And this is the Spear Militia version, they are actually a very good spearmen that even capable to hold and repel Portugese pikemen when they attack Sunda Kelapa. Oh yeah, and maybe for some variation in skins, the hindu-buddhist may get a light sleeveless cloth (not too bare chested), and the Muslims got koko cloth.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=147&pictureid=2025

What did u think?

Maybe I'll update with more my unit concept.

About the elite & Nobility's armour, before the arrival of europeans, Hindu-Buddhist nobles fought in Steel and Brass armour, while the Muslims in Aceh fought in Middle Eastern styled chainmail armour. Their contact will eventually bring a bit of crossdressing between them. Movies and Films that depicts the nobility fought bare chested and unaroured are just a myth, because we also have their ancient armour at museum... they only rarely wears helmets, because it was indicate bravery, as well as method of recognition (the Hindu-Buddhist soldiers usually set their hair free, or tie in a topknot, while the Muslims youth mostly cut their hair.

Questions:
- What's on their heads? Blangkon? Helmet?
- What's your policy on model budget? Maximum efficiency (256x256 textures, less than 700 polys) or flashier graphics (512x512 to 1024x1024 texture, 1000-1500 polys)?
- Any actual photos on the design of weapons or shield or armor? Surely all those sinetron on Jaka Sembung or Mak Lampir or whatever has some reference material on weaponry of that age?

[Rahwana]

As I also read the "Babad Tanah Jawi" with Cutewolf, we know that the militia wears Blangkon on top of their heads, looks like just for fashion sense, because they only said:

"Wiwitane ing tanah jawi ana agama islam ing sawise sedhane prau ayam wuruk, tekanipun islam mirsani owahipun jaman. Miturut carita, sang prabu kertawijaya ing majapahit inu wis ngerti tata krama olah kanuragan, lan prajuritipun, biyasa ngagem badhong wesi lan kuningan, pisan ngagem blangkon. Dene sawise sunan ngampel kagungan prajurit jawi, lere prajuritipun dikandhani ngaggem klambi ben iso dibedhakno karo prajurit majapahit."

Well, I bet you can understood javanese, but for foreign readers, the translation is simpler: The javanese soldiers wear steel and brass cuirass, and put blankon on their heads, but after muslim forces start to build their own soldiers, Sunan Ampel said to the muslim soldiers to wear shirts, so they wil be different from Hindu-Buddhist soldiers...

Well, cutewolf is the artist here... he then draw the soldiers' equipment, and depicts majapahit soldiers bare chested, and muslim influenced soldiers wearing shirts, surely, this was only skin difference. Ask Cutewolf for more of the unit details... as we did debate each other, are the Hindu Javanesesoldiers wear trousers inside or only cawet (underwear panties)

EDIT:
Hmm.... about the UI, I think it's too purple dominated... maybe we should tone the colors a little? GSS? Wlesmana? I personally think there is too much purple in the UI.

[Rahwana]

Yupz, the mod work is get the mark.. as I've finished all the unit lists (the paper are still about to be verified by Cute Wolf first though, as we still have some disagreement about some units and ownership, as well as his silly tought that Elephant mounted general was about to bring imbalance in the game, so he insist all royalty bodyguards are either horse cavalry (chariot included) or infantry, but no elephant bodyguards), guys, what did you think about Elephant generals?

Oh yeah the progress:
1. Finishing Faction Symbol and All Unit Research --> Finished
2. Making their models, and skinning them
3. Creating a playable custom Battle version
4. Making a campaign map --> Partially, still researching more regions
5. Making the Structure & Buildings
6. Fitting the campaign into campaign map
7. Relase the full playable version

[Cute Wolf]

Yupz, the mod work is get the mark.. as I've finished all the unit lists (the paper are still about to be verified by Cute Wolf first though, as we still have some disagreement about some units and ownership, as well as his silly tought that Elephant mounted general was about to bring imbalance in the game, so he insist all royalty bodyguards are either horse cavalry (chariot included) or infantry, but no elephant bodyguards), guys, what did you think about Elephant generals?

Did you remember how ridiculous to taking India in EB? due to the Elephants used as general's bodyguard, and they are REGENERATING FOR FREE!!! Better made the Sriwijayan royalty as Infantry (like all the Jawi descendant generals), and Malaka royalty as cavalry (like all the heavily muslim influenced factions), and give them a special unit of elephant with "command" ability to improve their morale... yes yes, I know, this was historical mod, but nothing wrong with some balancing... (except you could find some ways to made their unit is never exceed more than 15 elephants, I know the Sultan of Malaka and his family personally ride his elephants to battle, but it was the ONLY elephants mentioned, better made him heavy cavalry, or well, we just try the same EB solution with Spartan generals, give Sultan Allaudin Rihayat Syah, and his son Mahmud Syah elephant bodyguards, but not special elephant bodyguards unit, as it will imbalance the game - actually malaka comes to an end in 1511, the surviving members of Malaka royalty then run and build the Sultanate of Johor, but they never mentioned to rode elephants personally again)


Oh yeah the progress:
1. Finishing Faction Symbol and All Unit Research --> Finished
2. Making their models, and skinning them
3. Creating a playable custom Battle version
4. Making a campaign map --> Partially, still researching more regions
5. Making the Structure & Buildings
6. Fitting the campaign into campaign map
7. Relase the full playable version

Well, put aside the elephant bodyguards issue and some ridiculous unit as "Dayak Legionaries" - search better words to describe heavy infantrymen throwing heavy javelins and armed with mandau swords! certainly not "legionaries" you Romaioi Barbaroi, and "(Tribe Name) Blowgunners" - It wasn't logically acceptable to have some Blowgunners in the game facing pikemen that has more range compared to their missiles... They only had effective deadly range in 4 m! usable only in ambush, and if you made them to 20 m blowgunners, they should using pressurized air instead of their breath... well, put aside they two and you just proceed to made their full descriptions... well, this wasn't our entire unit lists eh... we've still forgot to made unit sketch for The Indochina Factions and Sulu!!!... If they are not Majapahit's vassal initially, and later Aceh's vassal, and didn't interfere with Aceh and Demak afterwards, I'll gladly exclude them from this mods... but this mods aim in historical accuracy.... bleh.....

And about the Regions, we just got several cities that was important but placed close together... its a matter of preferences then....

Well... just keep up working guys! :2thumbsup:

Oh yeah, the Sumateran Army aka the Acehnese....
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=147&pictureid=2028

The locok gunners, armed with turkish matchlock musket, and wearing chainmail armour
The Malayan Spearmen, Halberdier, and Archers, the archer are depicted as Hidu version of the skin...
And the Aceh Andalus infantry, wearing chainmail, cone shaped shields, and armed with scimitars...

[Cute Wolf]

Questions:
- What's on their heads? Blangkon? Helmet?
- What's your policy on model budget? Maximum efficiency (256x256 textures, less than 700 polys) or flashier graphics (512x512 to 1024x1024 texture, 1000-1500 polys)?
- Any actual photos on the design of weapons or shield or armor? Surely all those sinetron on Jaka Sembung or Mak Lampir or whatever has some reference material on weaponry of that age?

Oh yeah... sorry Wlesmana... I was soo busy debating about units with sonic here....

On their heads are Blangkon for lower javanese soldiers, the elite one are wearing brass headgear as the sinetrons and films shows, but well, I'll try to photo the ancient Indonesian steel-brass Armour at Museum Geologi when I got a spare time, and slip my camera undetected.... (allready seen before when I got into the museum...... jalan - jalan lagi bosen terus masuk museum, karcisnya 5000 sih, dan ngga boleh motret lagi... halah takut amat barangnya difoto, emang ada jinnya yg ngga suka difoto kalee...)

Hmmm... let me guess, I aim this mod for our fellow Indonesians, hoping them to learn history in a fun way... as well as get a chance to change history (in TW)... Yeah, maybe this mod will be downloaded and played at schools and university computers, which most are rather low end computers (mahasiswa gt loh), so we may used maximum efficiency graphics... or about a bit better... but certainly not the really flashier ones...

[wlesmana]

If we're going for historical accuracy, then I really need reference pictures if you want models to be made. Last thing I want is to make something, then everyone chimed in on parts it should be altered for "historical accuracy" then the end product looks entirely different than the first model I submitted. Historical research should be finished before the model is made, otherwise the modeling process end up as trial and error and a lot of waster efforts and energy.

Give me a reference material of a unit that you're quite sure what it should look like, for instance, the guy with the kopiah that looks like a warrior "dagang sate Madura". Also, do kopiahs worn back then show the front side of their hair or completely covered like what politicians wore these days?

[Rahwana]

If we're going for historical accuracy, then I really need reference pictures if you want models to be made. Last thing I want is to make something, then everyone chimed in on parts it should be altered for "historical accuracy" then the end product looks entirely different than the first model I submitted. Historical research should be finished before the model is made, otherwise the modeling process end up as trial and error and a lot of waster efforts and energy.

Give me a reference material of a unit that you're quite sure what it should look like, for instance, the guy with the kopiah that looks like a warrior "dagang sate Madura". Also, do kopiahs worn back then show the front side of their hair or completely covered like what politicians wore these days?

Yeah, we'll get our unit lists soon finished (still some debating about their appearances in the refrences, as well as their naming and equipments)... btw, we did "translate" mere words to pictures... because as you know... Hikayat Melayu, Babad Tanah Jawi, and much of our historical refrences only get text contexts... while I allready go to the museum here (Museum Geologi bandung has some of the best artifacts in Majapahit, and early islamic periods, while Cutewolf says that he allready seen some other equipments in Jakarta and Semarang, We also seen some paintings and sculpture dated from 1300-1800 period (Museum AA and Galeri Seni Rupa ITB gives much detailed info...) The only things that made us forced to resort in Cutewolf's hand drawn paintings was simple... camera is strictly forbidden there...

Terakhir kali gw kesana (Museum Geologi ANJRITTT), Gw keluarin Hp buat motret armor yang ada disitu, dan beberapa lukisan yang bagus buat refrensi, eh... didatengin satpam...

Satpam (S) : Dik, maaf dilarang memotret disini dik...
Gw (G) : Ya pak... maaf (mau keluar aja, toh udah difoto)
S : Tunggu sebentar dik...
G : Ada apa pak?
S : kameranya bawa sini dik!!!
G : Loh ini kan punya saya...
S : maaf dik, kamera ini harus disita, karena sudah tertulis dilarang memotret disini!!!
G : ENAK AJA PAK!!! Saya Kan CUMAN FOTO PAK!!!!
S : Pokoknya bawa sini!!! (mau diambil)
G : Aduuuh... jangan pak....
S : Saya laporin polisi kamu... (temen - temennya satpam2 lain pada dateng!!!) Ada CCTV yang udah merekam apa yang kamu lakukan tadi!!!!
G : Maaf pak.... cuman foto aja emang kenapa?
S : yasudah... kita damai saja dik, tapi saya harus liat adek hapus gambar - gambar yang dari sini!!! (sambil tangan membentuk simbol yang sudah jelas tujuannya apa)
G : ya.. ya pak.... (terpaksa dihapus sambil diliatin satpam)
S : (diam, memandang penuh arti....)
G : ya.. ya pak... tau... (keluarin 50 rebu)
S : Kurang dik.... (sambil ngancem karena temen - temen satpamnya liatin gw juga)
G : Nih..... (Ditambahin ampe cepekceng!!!! Sialan tuh Satpam!!! :furious3:)
S : terimakasih dik...
G : (Dalam hati: SONTOLOYO!!! CUMAN MOTRET AJA BAYAR DAMAI SEGITU!!! KALO GUA NGGA KULIAH DI BANDUNG UDAH GW HAJAR TERUS KABUR AJA TUH SATPAM SIALAN!!!!!! :furious3:)

Si Cutewolf denger cerita gw ketawa ngakak... maklum, dia kan bisa nggambar paling tidak... sedangkan gw ilang cepekceng... huhuhu.....

[Cute Wolf]

Yeah, I just want to confirm that we did have a lot of artifacts (actually in Museum Geologi has more from Pajajaran than Majapahit!).... but the camera is forbidden by those scoundrels called themself Satpam... How to conceal a phone camera and evade detection?

But maybe we'll try to get refrences from sculpture and paintings in Galeri Seni Rupa... AFAIK, cameras aren't forbidden there.... (poor sonic... poor sonic... I can only gives you half a pizza for "Compensation", well, after that, he can't go to museum Geologi again... maybe I'll come and sketch those armoury with pencils and paper... so I could ngeles with "ini tugas seni rupa pak...") :clown:

EDIT: Oh ya, historical research is mostly finished except for Indochina factions... just wait while I compile Sonic's research, discuss, and sort them...

Just getting this pics when browsing the Internet for cinema films : Yippe, got this:
Thai Armours:
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/naresuanrn6.jpg

Vietnam Warriors:
https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/A3103406-61.jpg

Maybe we should start browsing films and cinemas? What did you think? Or just we should stick to scriptures and archeologic evidences? Well.... let's watch thai porn historical films then... :2thumbsup:

[Rahwana]

Well.... let's watch thai porn historical films then... :2thumbsup:

WHAT???!!!!! CUTEWOLF......... :furious3: more serious please......

Well, on the other side, because I had those bad experience with museum guards, it all depends on you to gather the pics for the armoury..... oh yeah, GSS... did you have acess to museum at TMII lately, I know that there was considerable ammount of artwork from eastern fringe of Makkasar and Maluku that time..... If I remember, the diorama also has some authentic weaponary the eastern Indonesians wields that time... and that site was allowing photography without flash... may you go there and collect some photos?

[G. Septimus]

WHAT???!!!!! CUTEWOLF......... :furious3: more serious please......

Well, on the other side, because I had those bad experience with museum guards, it all depends on you to gather the pics for the armoury..... oh yeah, GSS... did you have acess to museum at TMII lately, I know that there was considerable ammount of artwork from eastern fringe of Makkasar and Maluku that time..... If I remember, the diorama also has some authentic weaponary the eastern Indonesians wields that time... and that site was allowing photography without flash... may you go there and collect some photos?
Well, I found a bunch of Dioramas in The Monas Museum. It's a room fulled with Dioramas
of Indonesian History, from the first arrival of the Portuguese until now
So, Where's the text that you ment ?????

[Rahwana]

Well, I found a bunch of Dioramas in The Monas Museum. It's a room fulled with Dioramas
of Indonesian History, from the first arrival of the Portuguese until now
So, Where's the text that you ment ?????

Try browsing about Sullalat Us Salatin for our starters.... I remember I also found them on Internet, and as far as I can translate them, They explain some of their political condition, and even some detailed campaign against portugese armies and later british occupation... it was huge work of arabic literature about history of the sultanates in Malaysia... but I read them in the form of books at the library...

[wlesmana]

How about starting small first and pick a faction, like say, Aceh or Majapahit or Demak or whatever. Focus research on that so the sooner that is done, the sooner model work can start. Then we'd get something finished to show and something to base the rest from. If the focus is more on Indonesia, let's not get bogged down with Malaysia, Thai and Vietnam. We'll add those once we got more work done.

[Cute Wolf]

Maybe you're right... yeah... we need the experienced's advice very first...

Thank you very much Wlesmana for making us go back to sanity again.... :2thumbsup:

Maybe we'll focus on Java & Sumatera first...

Yeah, the Java, Sumatera, and Malaka map finished... but with some questionable regions though... it was ridiculous, how the 3 part of Java, Sumatera, and Malaka allready used 69 regions... the hardcoded is 199 right? we only had 130 more regions... argh!!!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=147&pictureid=2030

EDIT: Well, it looks like we allready get some map... so maybe we can made initial provincial campaign first... in this map, I think the best suited campaign is Portugese invasion of 1512... so we can focus on Malaka, Aceh, Sriwijaya, Pajajaran, Kasultanan Jawi, and Majapahit (as Jawa-Bali Hindu-Buddhist Cities)... as well as Portugal... (malaka and aceh share many unit, while the Jawi cultures also similarly share much unit, we can made 2 cultures' basic staple infantry first! and use Vanilla Phalanx Pikemen, LS Legionary, Bucelarii, and Companion Cavalry as Portugese army)...

Kalimantan is just unreachable and unconquerable region this time... I named it.... "Gaweruhwarman" - Javanese joke names: "I Don't know - warman"

----
It will be our first mod campaign!!! YAY!!!

And as our project grows, we can still include it as a provincial campaign choice!

----

The map regions is sonic's research, while the map drawing (in .TGA) is my job...

[Rahwana]

So. should we proceed with Portugese Invasion first? Or consider another part of the map? (personally after read about how Malaka falls in 40 days... I got the impressin that this campaign is ironical at best..... :no:

It was a tragedy yes... but are you suggesting a Campaign for - survival (getting a horde in front of your door right away at the start is veerryyy veeerrryyyyy disturbing....)

[Cute Wolf]

So. should we proceed with Portugese Invasion first? Or consider another part of the map? (personally after read about how Malaka falls in 40 days... I got the impressin that this campaign is ironical at best..... :no:

It was a tragedy yes... but are you suggesting a Campaign for - survival (getting a horde in front of your door right away at the start is veerryyy veeerrryyyyy disturbing....)

Yeah... I found out not only you have discontent with this campaign... someone in TWC forum also doing that

- removed image because unethical words -

And I've got really nice music (traditional music!!!) that completely suits the Jawi culture!!! :thumbsup:
http://www.mp3raid.com/search/download-mp3/1048294/lingsir_wengi.html

[Cute Wolf]

Yay! I allready made some skins (modifying vanilla models), but apparently...
As my face is Chineese dominated, and Sonic's face are too fat to be used as proper face... Just look at this fatass' face on the Vanilla Gothic Spearmen model...

I didn't know what this unit is.... (just for facelift experiment)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=147&pictureid=2038

Notice that I still have trouble to put Sonic's face in proper place... anyone has a suggestion for properly facelifting textures (notice: I didn't have any problem with body skinning, only How to proper facelift!)

:laugh4:

[wlesmana]

Ok, so I managed to squeeze in a few hours extra for this. I made a logo:
https://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7844/nuslogo.th.jpg (https://img402.imageshack.us/i/nuslogo.jpg/)

I also made the... uh, spearmen that looks like Madura satay vendor:
https://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1412/nus01.th.jpg (https://img137.imageshack.us/i/nus01.jpg/)https://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8093/nus02.th.jpg (https://img521.imageshack.us/i/nus02.jpg/)
https://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1424/nus03.th.jpg (https://img341.imageshack.us/i/nus03.jpg/)https://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3277/nus04.th.jpg (https://img341.imageshack.us/i/nus04.jpg/)

You can get the model and texture here (no LODs though): http://www.mediafire.com/?domzzc4zny0

I'll see if I can rework the faction symbols of the factions we're working on.

[Cute Wolf]

Ouw NICE! :yes: many thanks wlesmana....
We allready works on making campaign map!!!

(BTW this wasn't Maduranese satay vendor... :clown: the diorama said that sarung and peci allready become daily clothes for melayu, even before the fall of Majapahit. They are of course hust levies, and they certainly won't wear more elaborate uniform... that's the reason I draw them with Peci & sarung.... according to sonic's advice...)

EDIT:
Well, thanks... I can handle to create several colour of their skins to differentiate some factions, as well as giving them some armour to be used as another "more heavy armoured" units' varation... as long as they allready have a face!! :thumbsup: (I was experimenting several times with changing unit's outfit, but I always stuck with the face area.... )

EDIT AGAIN:
Centrin sialan!!! Ngga boleh download karena udah bates maksimum..... besok gw ambil di Hotspot dah.....ERROR
Maximum connection has been reached

While trying to retrieve the URL: http://download627.mediafire.com/ybzjoxtsswvg/domzzc4zny0/nus_spearman.rar

The following error was encountered:

* Maximum connection has been reached

Please wait until your other download session finished and try again


Generated Sun, 06 Dec 2009 18:05:02 GMT by proxybdg1.centrin.net.id (squid/3.0.STABLE20)

Padahal 1 mb aja nga ada... hikz..... centrin sialaaannnn.......

[wlesmana]

You can differentiate the factions by the color of their sarung I suppose. Anyone in the group know their way around 3dsmax a bit? I can make a bunch of weapons and texture, like the kris, parang, etc, then you can import/copy-paste on other models to create new units. That would save me a bit of time. Next I'll make the usual bare-chested warrior with blangkon.

Also, be advised that the texture is 512x512 so it is not the most optimal. You can easily shrink it to 256x256 at any time.

One more thing, is the mod aiming for pretty graphics or optimization/performance? The Malayu Militia is only 688 poly so it's not bad, still under 700. But other units may get more elaborate and past 700. If you're going for pretty graphics, I can add hands with fingers on the models.

[Cute Wolf]

Nope, this details is good enough :2thumbsup:
Three reason we decide to made this mod of BI are:
1) Availability of multiple religion in one family (father are Hindu-Buddhist, one son are muslim, one again are christian, are possible), This was the primary reason we made it.
2) BI has the Horde factions, and sea faring maniac "bug", we actually want to EXPLOIT THIS "BUG" / "AI IDIOCY" to made them attempt numerous futile low troops sea landing... but then occasionaly land really huge invasion force across the Sea... (even Kingdoms can't doing this more consistently, even after the AI behaviour are tweaked without the help of script)... this was to represent that in our time's reality... all the native factions somewhat underestimate the European's arrival, and less coordinated.... In the grand (barbarian Invasion) campaign, that we hope will follow these initial Portugese Invasion campaign, the Europeans are the only faction with scripted movement / spawning, so they will really made a lot of colony carving here (but only native factions are playable... that's the spirit!)
3) We want to share the enjoyment of historical learning (which our fellow Indonesian friends usually neglects history), but with lighter requirements, so more of them could enjoy this mod with typical "second hand of second hand of second hand computers" that unfortunately, many Indonesians have... getting M2TW Kingdoms will means that only dedicated gamers (like us that have our own highend desktop), could enjoy this mod... but RTW-BI requirenments are quite low, and most "ecek - ecek" computers could run it smoothly in large unit size... so more of them will found enjoyment of learning history and roleplay what our heroes, ancestors, and founding fathers do... :2thumbsup:

Yeah, I know how to operate 3ds max... basically... but right now I still read and do.. read and do... ("ngoprek - oprek") archieves of ORG and TWC "learn to mod" sections.... and still try with experimenting in my own... Yeah, I allready get the model and soon I will made their another skins... :2thumbsup: many thanks bro!

[Rahwana]

Glad to see you run your job smoothly Wolf! :thumbsup: And Thank you wlesmana for the awesome unit models.... too bad we must put arround the mapmaking, ui, modelling, skinning, etc who has direct involvement with photoshop and graphics to that Wolf! :bow: as he was the only one who had these programs here...

Oh yeah, about my unit research, I allready give my "complete handwriting of unit lists" to Cutewolf this morning... yeah, I cite some proper sources per each unit... and leave cutewolf to type that ....:wall: soory, I got most of the inspiration and read those documents in book form, so I must use pencil and papers... not counting that our beloved mod leader, Cutewolf, was also a tyrant assistant lecturer in lab, and give me tons of homeworks.... AARRRRRRGGGHHHHHHH even he didn't give me any compensation.... :wall: :sweatdrop: :whip:

So when he was complete verifying the lists (again) I'll move on with unit balancing.... :2thumbsup:

[G. Septimus]

According to the resources I got,
in 1511, Alfonso de Albequerqe, Conquers Mallaca, Capital of Malaka Sultanate,
he then becomes Governor of that area, he will arrive form the east, from Gowa

Conquest of Mallaka
In February 1511, through a friendly Javanese merchant called Ninchatu, Albuquerque received a letter from Rui de Araújo, one of the nineteen Portuguese arrested at Malacca since 1509. It urged moving forward with the largest possible fleet to demand their liberation, and gave details about the procedures. Albuquerque showed it to Diogo Mendes de Vasconcelos, as an argument to advance in a joint fleet. In April 1511, after fortifying Goa, he gathered a force of about 900 Portuguese, 200 Hindu mercenaries and about eighteen ships.[28] He then set sail from Goa to Malacca, against the orders of the kingdom and under the protest of Diogo Mendes, who claimed the command of the expedition.[29] Under his orders was Fernão de Magalhães, who had participated in the failed embassy of Diogo Lopes de Sequeira in 1509.
After a false start towards the Red Sea, they sailed to the Strait of Malacca. It was the richest city that the Portuguese tried to take, and the most important east point in the trade network where Malay traders met Gujarati, Chinese, Japanese, Javanese, Bengali, Persian and Arabic, among others, described by Tomé Pires as of invaluable richness. Despite its wealth, it was mostly a wooden built city, with few masonry buildings. On the other hand it was defended by a powerful army of mercenaries and artillery, estimated at 20,000 men and more than 2000 pieces. Its greatest weakness being the unpopularity of the government of Sultan Mahmud Shah, who favored Muslims producing dissatisfaction within other merchants.
Albuquerque made a bold approach to the city, his ships decorated with banners, firing cannon volleys. He declared himself lord of all the navigation, demanding the Sultan to release the prisoners, pay for the damage, and asking to build a fortified trading post. The Sultan eventually freed the prisoners, but wasn't impressed by the small Portuguese contingent. Albuquerque then burned some ships at the port and four coastal buildings, to test the response. The city being divided by the Malacca River, and connected by a bridge seen as a strategic point, on 25 July at dawn the Portuguese landed and fought in tough battle, facing poisoned arrows, taking the bridge in the evening. After waiting for the reaction of the sultan, they returned to the ships. As the sultan did not respond, they prepared a junk offered by Chinese merchants, filling it with men, artillery, sandbags. Commanded by António de Abreu it sailed the river at high tide onto the bridge, with success: the day after all had landed. Fighting fiercely, they broke down the barricades built in the meantime. Suddenly, the Sultan appeared, leading his army of war elephants to crush the invaders. Despite the surprise, one of the Portuguese, Fernão Gomes de Lemos, approached and spurred an animal with a spear, making him stand up and back. Other Portuguese emulated him and the front of elephants retreated in panic, overthrowing the army, and the sultan himself, wreaking havoc and dispersing it. [30]. During a week Albuquerque rested his men and waited for the reaction of the Sultan. Merchants approached, asking for Portuguese protection. They were given flags to mark their premises, a sign that they would not be looted. On 24 August the Portuguese attacked again, but the Sultan had fled the city. Under firm orders they looted the city, respecting the flags, which still was a fabulous drawing.
Albuquerque remained in Malacca preparing its defences against any Malay counterattack[28], immediately building a fortress, distributing his men in shifts and using stones from the mosque and the cemetery. Despite the delays caused by heat and malaria, it was completed in November 1511, its surviving door known as "A Famosa" ( the famous). He settled the Portuguese administration, appointing Rui de Araújo factor, and arresting and executing mercilessly a powerful Javanese merchant, Utimuta Raja, who maintained contacts with the exiled royal family.

after taking Mallaka, he goes to Siam, to conquer it

Character Name : Alfonso de Albuquerque
Faction: Portugal
Command: 5
Management: 3
Loyalty: 7
Traits:
Great Commander (+4 command)
Loyal (+3 Loyalty)
Good Portuguesean ( +2 loyalty to Portugal)
Able Adminstrator ( +2 Management)
Good Attacker (+1 Comm .when attacking )

Retuine:

Malayan Turncoat ( +1 command when fighting Malayans)
Catholic Priest ( +2 Loyalty to Euro factions)
Mercenary Captain (+ 20% money when looting + 1 command, 20% cost down to mercenaries

Units
Arquibusers x 3
Musketeers x 1
Pikemen x 2
Swordsmen Militia x 3
General's Bodyguard (mounted)
http://totalwar.honga.net/images/m2tw_1.03/units/portugal/%23se_late_bodyguard.png
http://totalwar.honga.net/images/m2tw_1.03/units/portugal/%23swordsmen_militia.pngX 3
http://totalwar.honga.net/images/m2tw_1.03/units/portugal/%23musketeers.pngx1
http://totalwar.honga.net/images/m2tw_1.03/units/portugal/%23portuguese_arquebusiers.png x2
http://totalwar.honga.net/images/m2tw_1.03/units/mercs/%23landschneckt_pikemen.pngx 3

[Cute Wolf]

Yeah... right GSS... we'll port M2TW models as portugese units!!! :thumbsup:

And Sonic.... STOP WHINNING!!! :furious3: and do your job.... Because we didn't have anyone who could be relied to dechiper those Arabic texts except you! (yah, kalau lu kebanyakan PR, kalo yg asistennya gw, lu tau kan kalo gw asisten paling galak disini.... salah sendiri yeee..... ngga mungkin kan gw ngasih bonus ke lu, karena dulu waktu gw ama mantan gw juga ngga ngasih bonus ama diaa...)

[G. Septimus]

Yeah... right GSS... we'll port M2TW models as portugese units!!! :thumbsup:

And Sonic.... STOP WHINNING!!! :furious3: and do your job.... Because we didn't have anyone who could be relied to dechiper those Arabic texts except you! (yah, kalau lu kebanyakan PR, kalo yg asistennya gw, lu tau kan kalo gw asisten paling galak disini.... salah sendiri yeee..... ngga mungkin kan gw ngasih bonus ke lu, karena dulu waktu gw ama mantan gw juga ngga ngasih bonus ama diaa...)

U should go to Total War Honga, there's enough unit data for Europeans,
VOC, EIC, and Portuguese units can be found there
suggested units (Euro)
General's Bodyguard
http://totalwar.honga.net/images/kingdoms_1.04_americas/units/spain/%23new_world_bodyguard.png
Sword and Buckler men
http://totalwar.honga.net/images/m2tw_1.03/units/spain/%23sword_and_buckler_men.png
Musketers
http://totalwar.honga.net/images/m2tw_1.03/units/spain/%23musketeers.png
Arquebuisers
http://totalwar.honga.net/images/m2tw_1.03/units/spain/%23arquebusiers.png
Dragoons
http://totalwar.honga.net/images/kingdoms_1.04_americas/units/spain/%23spanish_dragoons.png
Bassilisk
http://totalwar.honga.net/images/m2tw_1.03/units/spain/%23ne_basilisk.png
alright,
just need to wait for Sonic to make the Unit Balancing, for the models, we could just copy M2TW (due to the same eras)

[Cute Wolf]

Oh.. I see... but he wasn't chineese at least... he was just random malayan actor who had face like jacky chan....

Well, After several looking my M2TW and kingdoms units... I bring you the Almost Final European units for Portugese (after several days checking the resources' citation and seeing M2TW models)... here it is...

Original research work by Sonic

1) Portugese Knights (20 horsemen)
Pri Wp : Lance
Sec Wp : Longsword
Ability : disciplined, general_unit
Model : M2TW Portugese knights - relatively untouched
Note :
- Taken from account that afonso is usually guarded by his peer knights...

2) Lancers (41 horsemen)
Pri Wp : Lance
Sec Wp : Longsword
Ability : disciplined
Model : M2TW Demi Lancers - change colour
Note :
- Portugese employs several lancers to break Malaka's javanese mercenary army that guard the west side of the city

3) Cuirassiers (40 horsemen)
Pri Wp : Longsword
Sec Wp : -
Ability : disciplined
Model : M2TW Dismounted Conquistadores - will be mounted in this mod
Note :
- Horsemen who is heavily armoured, but carry only swords and shields to hack through Malaka's supperior numbers of militia, didn't know clearly yet if they are dropped their lance (allready used), or delibrately deployed without lance, because we allready had lancers, we think that Curaissier type (like in AOE 3) are more likely.

4) Jinetes (50 horsemen)
Pri Wp : Javelins
Sec Wp : Longsword
Ability : normal, very hardy
Model : M2TW Jinetes - add some mail shirt protunding from inside, but kept leather facing
Note :
- Light cavalrymen with javelins are employed as portugese's primary form of cavalry when they assault Jayakarta, Banten, and especially prevail in Timor and Maluku.... who is them except the famous Jinetes? (not know the true name yet... but they are certainly fought as light cav with javelins and swords)

5) Colonial Pikemen (81 men)
Pri Wp : Pike
Sec Wp : Shortsword
Ability : normal, horde_unit
Model : M2TW upgraded pikemen - change colour
Note :
- yeah, the horde pikey

6) Pikemen (82 men)
Pri Wp : Pike
Sec Wp : Shortsword
Ability : disciplined
Model : M2TW full upgraded pikemen - change colour
Note :
- professional pikey

7) Aventuros (82 men)
Pri Wp : Pike
Sec Wp : Shortsword
Ability : impetuous
Model : M2TW Aventuros - made to worn somewhat heavier armour at the torso, but less at hand and legs
Note :
- and elite pikey

8) Halberdiers (72 men)
Pri Wp : Halberd (2hand spear anim)
Sec Wp : Halberd (2hand axe anim)
Ability : disciplined, hardy
Model : M2TW Swiss guards - change colour
Note :
- Sulalat us Salatin also write that malakan Royal guards involved in Halberd duels with several portugese troops, so they had halberdiers too...

9) Swordsmen Militia (80 men)
Pri Wp : longsword
Sec Wp : -
Ability : normal
Model : M2TW Swordsmen Militia - relatively untouched
Note :
- Basic garrison infantry for Portugese, taken from europeans and armed with swords... well, maybe they depicted as didn't got buckler (just carrying swords in Hikayat Melayu), but I think adding a buckler is still acceptable.

10) Sword and Bucklermen (41 men)
Pri Wp : longsword
Sec Wp : -
Ability : disciplined, hardy
Model : M2TW upgraded swordsmen militia - giving them plate torso
Note :
- The elite Swordsmen variants, sonic says that they will have 2 HP

11) Colonial Crossbows (80 men)
Pri Wp : Crossbow
Sec Wp : Shortsword
Ability : normal, horde_unit
Model : M2TW crossbowmen - giving some more reinessance looking brigandine
Note :
- the horde crossbows

12) Crossbowmen (80 men)
Pri Wp : Crossbow
Sec Wp : Shortsword
Ability : disciplined
Model : M2TW Aventurier - relatively untouched
Note :
- and crossbowmen... given aventurier's outfit because they are depicted as heavy armoured

13) Colonial Gunners (80 men)
Pri Wp : Arquebus
Sec Wp : Gunstock (using gun in melee)
Ability : normal, horde_unit
Model : M2TW Arquebusiers - made to worn less elaborate clothes
Note :
- this one is the horde gunners

14) Portugese Arquebusiers (71 men)
Pri Wp : Arquebus
Sec Wp : Longsword
Ability : disciplined
Model : M2TW Fully upgraded Portugese Arquebusiers - relatively untouched
Note :
- and proffesional gunners who could fight in hand to hand (they failed to break the malaka's gun troopers in gun duels, but after all ammo are depleted, they are charging with their swords and win quite easily in Sulalat Us Salatin... the malakans blame the sudden tidal wave that made their gunpowder wet, but I think they really has some melee prowess as depicted in M2TW

15) Musketters (51 men)
Pri Wp : Musket
Sec Wp : Shortsword
Ability : normal
Model : M2TW upgraded musketters - relatively untouched
Note :
- The long range gun - skirmishers

16) Sharpshooters (20 men)
Pri Wp : Musket
Sec Wp : Shortsword
Ability : disciplined, body piercing (this will made them damn arse killers!)
Model : M2TW Musketters - relatively untouched
Note :
- Several account of Portugese employs "someone who could shot men dead in well aimed shots" and not just volleys are present in Hikayat, Sulalat, and Babad Tanah Jawi... maybe adding some body piercing gunners will emulate that (or made their missile values far higher?)

Anyone agree with this final non merc european troops for portugese? (I delete his elite crossbowmen and dragoons proposal, the first because Basteiros are unsure (it was AOE 3 upgrade for portugese crossbow, and didn't get special mentions), and the second because of lack in the mounted gunmen in the text (mentioned once in Sulalat us Salatin), but then BI didn't have mounted gunmen's animation (we'll use crossbow animation for gunmen, afterall BI's crossbow animation can be used for both crossbow and guns). I also named his frontiersmen "Sharpshooters" because of their nature...

[Rahwana]

After finished my Sulalat us Salatin book (with immense help of my Murrobi - I trick him to believe that I was about to become a religious man, and I tell him that I want to follow the example of acehneese and malakan sultanates, but after this historical research is complete, I'll eat pork and drank beer again..... :laugh4: it's a sin, but sin what? they are delicious and even cutewolf said "Lu sinting kalau minum" he was just moderate drinker afterall :clown: - yupz, rules from 1400 years ago aren't fit in this age, yes :yes:)

Well, I said that wholly European mercs comes MUCH later, after dutch and portugese colonies has firm grip here... Earlier mercs are written, but they are usually used as officers and trainers... and only a bit of them become the rank and file.... so we eliminate the possibility of free ranging colonial mercs, but we can made mercenary camp train european type mercenary, but they comes MUCH LATER, and they aren't exist in this Portugese invasion period.....

[Rahwana]

Well, another issues regarding to unit recruitments:

Apparently we *cough* mush have several large AOR about recruitment of Javanese units, or made Javanese type units trainable virtually anywhere, Almost all sultanates in Sumatera, Malaka, and Java rely on Javanese armoured spearmen as their heavy infantry core on a serious battle line.... Because we also know that Javanese are everywhere now.... they just can't survive without us... JAVANESSE!!!!!


HIDUP JOWO!!!!!

[Cute Wolf]

How about these concept art.....

https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/malakawar02.jpg

https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/malakawar03.jpg

https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/malakawar05.jpg

Well, at least it was the resume of the initial stages in our campaign, the portugese attack and Malaka sultanate responded (sonic hasn't yet finishes his research on Malakan rank and file)

Armoured elephants FTW!!!

Credit

Azhar Abdullah

http://azharsketch.blogspot.com/

[G. Septimus]

How about these concept art.....

https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/malakawar02.jpg

https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/malakawar03.jpg

https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Cutewolf/malakawar05.jpg

Well, at least it was the resume of the initial stages in our campaign, the portugese attack and Malaka sultanate responded (sonic hasn't yet finishes his research on Malakan rank and file)

Armoured elephants FTW!!!

Credit

Azhar Abdullah

http://azharsketch.blogspot.com/
AWESOME!!!!
You did'nt draw it yourself, right???
If u did, you're a hell of a drawer

[Cute Wolf]

I allready cite the author :laugh4: my friend draws it, not me.....

[Rahwana]

Hmm.... bet only two first images are from the blog, the last image certainly was your own drawing.... Did you forced us to get armoured elephants as bodyguard now.... :wink:

[Cute Wolf]

Hmm.... bet only two first images are from the blog, the last image certainly was your own drawing.... Did you forced us to get armoured elephants as bodyguard now.... :wink:

If they were royalty's personal unit, they should be properly armoured.... :juggle2:
Oh man...

[G. Septimus]

If they were royalty's personal unit, they should be properly armoured.... :juggle2:
Oh man...
maybe u should make it like the normal models, maybe this EB Model can give some help:
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/baktria/baktria_indian_elephant_armored.gif
this is the Baktrian armoured elephants, it uses Indian Elephants. maybe we can make the non-General unit "Sumateran Elephants". Sumateram Elephants are much smaller then the Indian one,
so maybe we could use the normal "Elephants" unit

[Cute Wolf]

Nah... the EB Elephants are all african (look for their ears!)... they are Indians in desceription only.... Maybe I will modify existed Indian elephants models and skins from Alex.

http://www.photokingdom.co.uk/articles/mammal/proboscidean/images/elephant_comp.gif

As you can see, Indian elephants are smaller, maybe I will use Alex Indian elephant model, with forest elephant skleton (the smaller elephants)

[Rahwana]

Dang dang dang..... ngoeeeekkkkkk!!!!!!! Bona dan Rong - rong!!!!!!

http://images.arashi82.multiply.com/image/20/photos/29/500x500/1/bona-01.jpg?et=GE0CwAlC7RoIAtCeXN2PLA&nmid=53011241

http://images.arashi82.multiply.com/image/8/photos/29/500x500/2/bona-02.jpg?et=3%2CcnHCMK6r3EtM3Sklpm6w&nmid=53011241

http://images.arashi82.multiply.com/image/8/photos/29/500x500/3/bona-03.jpg?et=8L92jorD4%2BTAg3KmbENp0Q&nmid=53011241

http://images.arashi82.multiply.com/image/8/photos/29/500x500/4/bona-04.jpg?et=eL88JyFUIDEIULVyX2h4zw&nmid=53011241

http://images.arashi82.multiply.com/image/9/photos/29/500x500/5/bona-05.jpg?et=68UaBqmE6J74npD5q%2CPYpA&nmid=53011241

http://images.arashi82.multiply.com/image/17/photos/29/500x500/6/bona-06.jpg?et=I7aNuukvV7YS9IGNf%2CzqSA&nmid=53011241

Gajahnya harusnya ukurannya segini........ :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[G. Septimus]

Dang dang dang..... ngoeeeekkkkkk!!!!!!! Bona dan Rong - rong!!!!!!

http://images.arashi82.multiply.com/image/20/photos/29/500x500/1/bona-01.jpg?et=GE0CwAlC7RoIAtCeXN2PLA&nmid=53011241

http://images.arashi82.multiply.com/image/8/photos/29/500x500/2/bona-02.jpg?et=3%2CcnHCMK6r3EtM3Sklpm6w&nmid=53011241

http://images.arashi82.multiply.com/image/8/photos/29/500x500/3/bona-03.jpg?et=8L92jorD4%2BTAg3KmbENp0Q&nmid=53011241

http://images.arashi82.multiply.com/image/8/photos/29/500x500/4/bona-04.jpg?et=eL88JyFUIDEIULVyX2h4zw&nmid=53011241

http://images.arashi82.multiply.com/image/9/photos/29/500x500/5/bona-05.jpg?et=68UaBqmE6J74npD5q%2CPYpA&nmid=53011241

http://images.arashi82.multiply.com/image/17/photos/29/500x500/6/bona-06.jpg?et=I7aNuukvV7YS9IGNf%2CzqSA&nmid=53011241

Gajahnya harusnya ukurannya segini........ :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
That's fvcking stupid, Sonic :thumbsdown:
I'll crush u 1 day :smash: when my EB can be playable again, I'll smash u and ur armies!!!
YOHOHOHO,
AND I"LL CRUSH U WITH BONA ELEPHANTS!!!!
even if I have to kill Romans..............
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/customavatars/avatar27011_1.gif

[Rahwana]

Hohoho.... right now, we still experiment with placing elephant box on top of small elephants, but that gives really ridiculous result.... wait..... where is the empty USB!?!?

Ok, we've try to get elephant javelinmen working (sucessfully) with chariot javelinmen animation, and kurdish javelinmen as placeholder model, but we only got a little problem... the box are soo small, so the javelinmen looks like standing on top of a toy box.... :thumbsdown: and for worse, smaller elephant size only support 2 rider soo badly..... (the front and the back man will be overlap each other....) and right now, cutewolf still stratching his head, how to enlarge the elephant box in his 3ds max...

[Cute Wolf]

Allright... allright, so finally I've gone into conclusion that javelinmen standing on top of a small elephants are ridiculously like surfboarding men... oops, elephantboarding men...... and you two should stop citating BOBO! :laugh4:
http://www.bobo.nl/Portals/1/BB01_kleurwedstrijd_Fiets.jpg
Adding some blue rabbit cavalry isn't a good idea, u know..... :smash:

Ok, like it or not... we'll stick to standard indian elephant provided in vanilla, and maybe used armoured elephants for bodyguards (they are african, but I can manage skins to get more metallic side of them, so they are basicaly extended armour rather than body...)

[Rahwana]

We'll get this points to elephant balancing (allready tested how they wreak havoc (at this stat) against some model test units. Currently, cutewolf are working on refining his elephant skins...

; Gajah pekerja, diambil dari yang biasa dibuat kerja di hutan... ngga pake baju.
type field worker elephants
dictionary field_worker_elephants ; Gajah Pekerja
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Medium_1
soldier greek_peltast_elephant, 20, 10, 1
mount gajah kecil
mount_effect horse +5, chariot +7
attributes sea_faring, can_run_amok, frighten_foot, frighten_mounted, very_hardy
formation 6, 10, 12, 16, 4, square
stat_health 1, 4
stat_pri 7, 45, javelin, 70, 45, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr thrown ap
stat_sec 7, 45, no, 0, 0, melee, other, blunt, none, 0 ,0.35
stat_sec_attr area, launching, ap
stat_pri_armour 5, 5, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 16, 7, leather
stat_heat -3
stat_ground 0, 0, -5, -2
stat_mental 11, impetuous, untrained
stat_charge_dist 100
stat_fire_delay 20000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 6, 8000, 2000, 400, 400, 8000
ownership sassanids, berbers, huns, goths, sarmatians, vandals, slave

[G. Septimus]

We'll get this points to elephant balancing (allready tested how they wreak havoc (at this stat) against some model test units. Currently, cutewolf are working on refining his elephant skins...

; Gajah pekerja, diambil dari yang biasa dibuat kerja di hutan... ngga pake baju.
type field worker elephants
dictionary field_worker_elephants ; Gajah Pekerja
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Medium_1
soldier greek_peltast_elephant, 20, 10, 1
mount gajah kecil
mount_effect horse +5, chariot +7
attributes sea_faring, can_run_amok, frighten_foot, frighten_mounted, very_hardy
formation 6, 10, 12, 16, 4, square
stat_health 1, 4
stat_pri 7, 45, javelin, 70, 45, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr thrown ap
stat_sec 7, 45, no, 0, 0, melee, other, blunt, none, 0 ,0.35
stat_sec_attr area, launching, ap
stat_pri_armour 5, 5, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 16, 7, leather
stat_heat -3
stat_ground 0, 0, -5, -2
stat_mental 11, impetuous, untrained
stat_charge_dist 100
stat_fire_delay 20000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 6, 8000, 2000, 400, 400, 8000
ownership sassanids, berbers, huns, goths, sarmatians, vandals, slave
That's only for the elephants, right????
maybe we should make the "Elephant Riflemen", like the Maratha ones. that can only be made when the
Natives are allied with the Europeans, like the British in India,

[Cute Wolf]

Simply no, we didn't have Elephant gunmen animation for BI, maybe we could use the carriage ballista anims, but that will be ridiculous (allready tested with bucelarii as models), even our elephant javelinmen will use chariot javelinmen animation, means that the rider will hush-hush with his hand when moving...

[G. Septimus]

I have a model for Infantry (I found it when I was searching Google)
https://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8185/rajputjavelinmen1sr0.jpg
for some Militia
but u know, I did'nt have a goddamn Idea where I found it, I think it's M2TW or something, cuz the units are'nt in one Standard Model

[Samofrome]

I have a model for Infantry (I found it when I was searching Google)
https://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8185/rajputjavelinmen1sr0.jpg
for some Militia
but u know, I did'nt have a goddamn Idea where I found it, I think it's M2TW or something, cuz the units are'nt in one Standard Model
pardon me if you don't want me here, but it does come M2TW, because the men in that unit is wearing differant hair stlyes and bands.

[G. Septimus]

pardon me if you don't want me here, but it does come M2TW, because the men in that unit is wearing differant hair stlyes and bands.
Hello, sam :ave:
Care to Join usin our effort to make a mod????

[Cute Wolf]

pardon me if you don't want me here, but it does come M2TW, because the men in that unit is wearing differant hair stlyes and bands.

Hiya, new face here.... are you a Singaporeans, Thai, Bruneian, Filipino, Kampucheans, or Vietnamese?
Or you are Portugese, Dutch, Spaniard, French, English, German, or Turkish?

It's a surprise to see you here.... we're need some help now!

---------------------

And about M2TW models, there was several skins for a model, but apparently we can just keep the basic model, and reskin it for RTW puropses...

[Samofrome]

Hiya, new face here.... are you a Singaporeans, Thai, Bruneian, Filipino, Kampucheans, or Vietnamese?
Or you are Portugese, Dutch, Spaniard, French, English, German, or Turkish?

It's a surprise to see you here.... we're need some help now!

---------------------

And about M2TW models, there was several skins for a model, but apparently we can just keep the basic model, and reskin it for RTW puropses...

Engilsh.

[G. Septimus]

Hiya, new face here.... are you a Singaporeans, Thai, Bruneian, Filipino, Kampucheans, or Vietnamese?
Or you are Portugese, Dutch, Spaniard, French, English, German, or Turkish?

It's a surprise to see you here.... we're need some help now!

---------------------

And about M2TW models, there was several skins for a model, but apparently we can just keep the basic model, and reskin it for RTW puropses...
He's a Brit, he lives in England,
BTW, thx for wanting to help us, Sam

[Cute Wolf]

Heck... the lastest source we read (babad Sriwijaya).... suggest that the Javanese Spearmen..... use OVERHAND SPEAR!!!
:furious3:

Now we must start to look for other's animation to be used in our mod... I allready confirm that with a real historian (he was history lecturer in UPI, we've meet when I ruining reading the UPI library about history...), he says that the evidence of Javanese line spearmen use overhand spear fighting could be seen in the Prajurit Jogo Karyo, from Palembang, Cirebon, and Yogyakarta, that still could be seen (in ceremony) even today... as they use overhand naturally because they tend to fight in really dense formation (Heck! that was too similar with Hoplite warfare!!!)

http://devry.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/yk_prajurit_jogokaryo.jpg

Maybe we can use javelinmen animation for melee :grin: what did you think?

EDIT : After reading much about the royal bloodline of mainline Indonesian monarch and Kingdoms
-> Sriwijaya -> Kediri -> Singosari -> Majapahit -> Demak -> Pajang -> Mataram -> Yogyakarta
we've known that the first Sriwijaya King (Dapunta Hyang Sri Jayanasa), was land on Sumatran shore with a refugee force of 20000 men strong. He was the eldest of surviving Princes of Sakawana Dynasty (Saka dynasty in India), that sucesfully evade the Ghupta's attempt to wipe them out of existance. He led his army that made of surviving nobility to evade Saka genocide that happened in India, and for more interesting things to point out, the Saka Dynasty adopt Hinduism... BUT DID NOT ADOPT THE CONCEPT OF CASTE!!! - Just like what happened in Indonesian Hindus today!!!

His core troops was made with Heavily armoured nobles, wearing helmet that shaped like (kacang mete) - that explains WHY TRADITIONAL JAVANESE HELMETS HAVE TEH SHAPE JUST LIKE PHRYGIAN CAPS!!!
http://firmanbudi.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/gatotkaca.jpg?w=237&h=300
And armed with bows and lances... his levies including some mounted archer scouts (WUT mounted archers?) and bow and sword armed levies.... (so we're saka descendants afterall....)

Well, those Hoplite like fighting style must be carried off from Baktria.....
I didn't think we'll discover this kind of surprising facts.....

==================================================================

For more interesting Information... Why the most Javanese Nobles have *cough* much lighter skin than most commoners?
That was happened because they aren't the native Javanese at all (at least they wasn't native 1400 years ago *cough*), they are Saka, and they tend to give their Saka blood to their fellow Saka... (that's why the rich Javanese family in not so long time ago forbids their daughters to marry lesser classes... no caste.. yes, but "pseudo interracial" marriage are rare (I call this pseudo because all were belongs to one Javanese race now). And while the nobility usually kept their archery skills, they gradually lost taste on daily horse riding (who want to rode a horse in muddy fields?), but still employs much light horse archers as scouts, as well as keeping some elite armoured HA for the nobility. The muddy plains on Indonesian archipelago (and java as the best case), did give some advantage to hit and run archery, but Quite disadvantage towards charging cavalry, that's why the Cataphract type of fighting are quickly phased out, in a favour of Bows and Swords combo. In the other hands, heavy infantry fighting in towns, seems to largely untouched until the advent of gunpowders (they still wearing plate/mail/scale armour, and fought as Saka Hoplites). that was why, Javanese heavy spearmen are depicted fought in very dense formation, while their lesser militia brethren fought much different way, with underhand spears...... Damn.... white Javanese are more Saka......

Too bad... Sonic is Black Javanese.... :laugh3:

[G. Septimus]

Heck... the lastest source we read (babad Sriwijaya).... suggest that the Javanese Spearmen..... use OVERHAND SPEAR!!!
:furious3:

Now we must start to look for other's animation to be used in our mod... I allready confirm that with a real historian (he was history lecturer in UPI, we've meet when I ruining reading the UPI library about history...), he says that the evidence of Javanese line spearmen use overhand spear fighting could be seen in the Prajurit Jogo Karyo, from Palembang, Cirebon, and Yogyakarta, that still could be seen (in ceremony) even today... as they use overhand naturally because they tend to fight in really dense formation (Heck! that was too similar with Hoplite warfare!!!)

http://devry.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/yk_prajurit_jogokaryo.jpg

Maybe we can use javelinmen animation for melee :grin: what did you think?

EDIT : After reading much about the royal bloodline of mainline Indonesian monarch and Kingdoms
-> Sriwijaya -> Kediri -> Singosari -> Majapahit -> Demak -> Pajang -> Mataram -> Yogyakarta
we've known that the first Sriwijaya King (Dapunta Hyang Sri Jayanasa), was land on Sumatran shore with a refugee force of 20000 men strong. He was the eldest of surviving Princes of Sakawana Dynasty (Saka dynasty in India), that sucesfully evade the Ghupta's attempt to wipe them out of existance. He led his army that made of surviving nobility to evade Saka genocide that happened in India, and for more interesting things to point out, the Saka Dynasty adopt Hinduism... BUT DID NOT ADOPT THE CONCEPT OF CASTE!!! - Just like what happened in Indonesian Hindus today!!!

His core troops was made with Heavily armoured nobles, wearing helmet that shaped like (kacang mete) - that explains WHY TRADITIONAL JAVANESE HELMETS HAVE TEH SHAPE JUST LIKE PHRYGIAN CAPS!!!
http://firmanbudi.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/gatotkaca.jpg?w=237&h=300
And armed with bows and lances... his levies including some mounted archer scouts (WUT mounted archers?) and bow and sword armed levies.... (so we're saka descendants afterall....)

Well, those Hoplite like fighting style must be carried off from Baktria.....
I didn't think we'll discover this kind of surprising facts.....

==================================================================

For more interesting Information... Why the most Javanese Nobles have *cough* much lighter skin than most commoners?
That was happened because they aren't the native Javanese at all (at least they wasn't native 1400 years ago *cough*), they are Saka, and they tend to give their Saka blood to their fellow Saka... (that's why the rich Javanese family in not so long time ago forbids their daughters to marry lesser classes... no caste.. yes, but "pseudo interracial" marriage are rare (I call this pseudo because all were belongs to one Javanese race now). And while the nobility usually kept their archery skills, they gradually lost taste on daily horse riding (who want to rode a horse in muddy fields?), but still employs much light horse archers as scouts, as well as keeping some elite armoured HA for the nobility. The muddy plains on Indonesian archipelago (and java as the best case), did give some advantage to hit and run archery, but Quite disadvantage towards charging cavalry, that's why the Cataphract type of fighting are quickly phased out, in a favour of Bows and Swords combo. In the other hands, heavy infantry fighting in towns, seems to largely untouched until the advent of gunpowders (they still wearing plate/mail/scale armour, and fought as Saka Hoplites). that was why, Javanese heavy spearmen are depicted fought in very dense formation, while their lesser militia brethren fought much different way, with underhand spears...... Damn.... white Javanese are more Saka......

Too bad... Sonic is Black Javanese.... :laugh3:
If you wanna know, I'm also Black.
If you try to see, most of the JAvans are Black, except those who are from Dutch Descedants (like my Grandmother)

[Cute Wolf]

If you wanna know, I'm also Black.
If you try to see, most of the JAvans are Black, except those who are from Dutch Descedants (like my Grandmother)

No, kraton descendants are distinctly yellow (not white!!!) you can observe that...
I know, dutch blood also give lighter skin, but try to browse the pics of javanese nobility too...

[Rahwana]

Well, before seeing the evidence first hand (also talk much with mr Sarwono the historian), It's hard to believe that Javanese Noble Heavy infantry fought as armoured hoplites.

EDIT: So, what we should do with them? Change the elite hoplite's headgear? or Made entirely new model?

Oh yeah... GSS, if you want to look for evidence... Look at mr Soeharto's portait. His face was typical Javanese noblemen. Light Yellow-Whitish skin, a bit little eyes (but still larger than Chinese), well built strature (as opposed to thin strature of average javanese)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Soeharto.jpg/170px-Soeharto.jpg
and his family
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Suharto_family.jpg
Yeah, he was the best example of how Javanese nobility look like...

The Sultans of Yogyakarta, Sri Sultan Hamengkubuwono IX
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Hbix.jpg/186px-Hbix.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/id/thumb/1/10/Sultan_hb_IX_PYO.jpg/180px-Sultan_hb_IX_PYO.jpg
And Hamengkubuwono X
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/id/thumb/4/4e/Sultan_hamengkubuwono_tenth.jpg/130px-Sultan_hamengkubuwono_tenth.jpg

Certainly they are don't like the Javanese commoners... compare that with my face on facebook, or your face :grin:

[holeymad]

do u guys still need help with this???

if so doing what?

[G. Septimus]

do u guys still need help with this???

if so doing what?
Sonic is still doing the Unit thingy........
better wit 'til he finishes. then we go to the next step

[holeymad]

ok just say if u need some help... i can do lots of things but i can do nice unit cards in 3ds max if u want.

[Cute Wolf]

Hmm... you can done some unit modelling, than we'll need your help... just wait when sonic comes back from his hometown (this holiday is also semester holiday for students, he gonna back to his hometown too...).

Just hope he didn't forget to finish off his translation job....

[holeymad]

here are some examples of some unit cards that i made... id be very interested in msking them...:beam:

[holeymad]

here are some examples of some unit cards that i made... id be very interested in msking them...:beam:

https://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/holeyfoley/chariot1big.png

https://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/holeyfoley/bigunitcard-1.png

https://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/holeyfoley/bigunitcard.png

and small ones:

https://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/holeyfoley/chariot1small.png

https://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/holeyfoley/smallunitcard.png

https://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/holeyfoley/smallunitcard-1.png



all of theme were my custom textures except for the cahriot that was dont by mattwill... hes a user at rome total war heaven.

[G. Septimus]

https://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/holeyfoley/chariot1big.png

https://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/holeyfoley/bigunitcard-1.png

https://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/holeyfoley/bigunitcard.png

and small ones:

https://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/holeyfoley/chariot1small.png

https://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/holeyfoley/smallunitcard.png

https://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/holeyfoley/smallunitcard-1.png



all of theme were my custom textures except for the cahriot that was dont by mattwill... hes a user at rome total war heaven.
We were searching some1 like u

[Cute Wolf]

Well, after sonic contact me, as he had consulting several history students, we've get several historians (but still students) helping sonic right now, but they are neither orgah's not total war fan, but they just want to help us recreate the historical battles of Medieval Indonesian history for education purpose. And well, we've allready got some conclusion, according to their input:

Lumayan banget, ada 2 anak UPI temennya Sonic, dan beberapa anak UGM (ngga tau semua totalnya berapa, sonic yg tau, tapi gw udah kontak via email), bagian pendidikan sejarah yang setuju mau bantu kita lebih dalam buat riset unit dan kondisi geopolitik di Indonesia saat itu, asal nanti kalau udah jadi, mereka boleh memakai animasi film dari mod ini buat materi edukasi sejarah di tingkat SMP dan SMA. Lumayan, sudah dikonsultasiin ke dosen - dosen mereka juga, dan mereka setuju membantu kita dalam menggali info yang dibutuhkan. Ngga harus cari-cari materi dari situs musium di Belanda lagi heheeh..... :thumbsup:

Cuman sebagai gantinya, mereka minta kalau kita serius dalam mengerjakan modifikasi ini..... :wall:
Nga boleh pasang babi bakar yang bisa lari - lari sebagai bonus, atau pasang muka babi di wajah malingsia dah....

Well, this mod will apply this:

1) Unit naming in their authentic / common native tongue naming.
2) Rather realistic AOR system (because we will still get all region recruitable for some basic factional units)
3) Almost Realistic unit size and division (luckily, the battles in Indonesian archipelago this time is fought mostly in hundreds to thousand scale, large unit size is more than enough)


But here is the downside, as we must redone something in our Portugese invasion mod:
1) They want us to redone some faction naming and symbols, especially on our some too generic factions, or using misplaced symbols for native kingdoms (proper war flag as faction symbol, not just the faction seal).
2) They did appreciate all the hardcoded aspects of BI engine, and the more screwed up M2TW possibility (so my distorted and chubby islands of my map is still fine), but all they want is realistic representation of battle system (slower, but more morale based), and rational unit cost, upkeep, and training system (still not yet clear, what they want... sonic isn't back yet)
3) Heavy modified field and siege battle behaviours, tweaked more closely to the standard way of fighting that time, remove the stone city walls and only important cities and capital could get exspensive wooden walls, so elephants could still easily bust it (DUH!) - but some cities will get stone walls pre built to represent they are allready built city walls, but with several growth penalty, so they are more like fortress (so they are forever town, or large town, with limited military training capability).

Oh yeah, the list of change is Redone the Factions: here it is....
- Aceh Darussalam (using crescent moon and 8 pointed star as symbol, the 5 pointed star is used at peace time, and it was used later)
- Kesultanan Syah Malaka (Kesultanan was part of his name... it was proper way they are called that time, the faction symbol is right though.)
- Nagari Sriwijaya (using lotus flower as symbol, not the Royal stamp :sweatdrop: (the former symbol proposed by me is the Stamp), had primarily hindu-buddhist FM, because....)
- Palembang Darussalam (allready there, and they are pissed off with their Sriwijayan neighbours, even when they share soo much unit... the historians insist that they are SEPARATE entity that coexisted, later they become large kingdom....)
- Pakuan Pajajaran (Yeah, the Ganesha symbol is ok)
- Bintara Jawi (rather than too generic "Kasultanan Jawi", the symbol is ok)
- Nagari Majapahit (all is ok)
- Portugal (all is ok, but the unit is revamped again.... not just porting out M2TW damn....)

[Rahwana]

Ok, so our recent addition of real history students (for doing their own research and final project) on historical research front is both blessing and a "curse" as we now must working this mod seriously.

Well, I suggest to doing some restructurisation and keeping our ORG side, to get a better shape, because the "real historians" are allready taking the historical research project.

How about that wolf? which position that we shall appoint (outside the historical research, because you allready told me that I was the historical research coordinator and real world public relations). While the map is almost complete now, and your ill intentioned attempt to fill flaming pigs vs elephant footballers as unit list is terminated now. Heheheh, so you must work seriously now wolf...

[Cute Wolf]

Well, yeah, just waiting GSS to confirm this, and I'll start a new, more serious thread about this at the forge.

[Rahwana]

Don't forget to round up all the interested member and confirming them :thumbsup:

[Rahwana]

Wolf? GSS? What are you doin? I'm fed up with overseeing historians... and you two didn't work a lot like me.... :furious3:

[G. Septimus]

Wolf? GSS? What are you doin? I'm fed up with overseeing historians... and you two didn't work a lot like me.... :furious3:
U said we were going to make a new Thread???
where is it????

[Cute Wolf]

Well, you are the one who must work with teh historians directly because you are the one who knows some of them personally :wink:

If you can create something with sotosop as I do, I'll switch with you...

[Cute Wolf]

Sonic is finally finished his Unit Balancing & cost calculating sheet (taking consideration of that day's cost of life, maintaining the arms cost, distance, wage rate, and many more thingies that I didn't understand - and with sleeping in my room for two night only for doing that calculation, with all his yellowish books, well, this sheet isn't finished yet, and I didn't quite understand, what it was for... all the numbers and rupiah refrences on paper, but at least, I want to shown his unit list and some of our EDU)

Well, at least our historian team (aside from some who refuse to work with us after knowing that leader is me...), doing their job rather nicely (well, so almost all the historians who works with us (3 students)) are either Sonic's friend, or woman..... :gorgeous:

Put your hopes high comrades! We're now working in our best pace!

EDIT: removed the attachments, posted the newer version w cav balance on my last post

[Rahwana]

At least, one job of creating a wholesale calculation about what they eat, what the price of weapons, what size of their families, and what their background wealth for infantry is finished..... Thank you for two day's food wolf :clown:

[holeymad]

hey how is the mod goin?

[Quirinus]

:hide:

Hi... Malaysian here, do you still need people? I'm afraid my modding experience is pretty basic (modifying EDB for academy law bonus, temple of Epona, etc), and my knowledge of the region's history is also almost non-existent, but I think I'm a fairly good writer, I could take a shot with writing unit/building/faction descriptions if you want...

Anyhow, I want to conquer the map as the Malayans! :pirate2: The entire archipelago shall know the rule of the Malayans! :clown:

[Cute Wolf]

:hide:

Hi... Malaysian here, do you still need people? I'm afraid my modding experience is pretty basic (modifying EDB for academy law bonus, temple of Epona, etc), and my knowledge of the region's history is also almost non-existent, but I think I'm a fairly good writer, I could take a shot with writing unit/building/faction descriptions if you want...

Anyhow, I want to conquer the map as the Malayans! :pirate2: The entire archipelago shall know the rule of the Malayans! :clown:

Yeah, every help we accept! Thanks for joining our team Quirinus! :2thumbsup:
Well, if you want, can you help us in getting entire "nama orang melayu" as much as you can? we need every name to be inculuded, (so not only histroically famous name, but also common name), oh yeah, we also need more women name for the engine sakes too...

[Cute Wolf]

hey how is the mod goin?

Historical research going very fine, unit balancing stats are finished for infantry (still adjusting some for cav and elephants though), model is still looking for modellers, and map is adding some cities an removing some unimportant one...

[Quirinus]

Yeah, every help we accept! Thanks for joining our team Quirinus! :2thumbsup:
Well, if you want, can you help us in getting entire "nama orang melayu" as much as you can? we need every name to be inculuded, (so not only histroically famous name, but also common name), oh yeah, we also need more women name for the engine sakes too...
Sure, I'll try to do that. I'm not actually Malay myself though, so my research will probably rely heavily on what's avaliable on the Internet, if that's alright. Also, is there a deadline? =]

EDIT: Preliminary research suggests that modern Malay names are derived from Arabic, Javanese and Sanskrit in addition to Malay... do you mean me to compile the Malay-derived names only, or the others as well? The article also says that most modern Malay names are Arabic-derived, I don't know if that was the case in the timeframe of the game?

Also, re: the elephant bodyguards, maybe we can limit their power by limiting the number of elephants in the bodyguard to something like 3-4 (on large unit size) versus the 12 or so of the normal ele unit? Just a thought.

[holeymad]

Historical research going very fine, unit balancing stats are finished for infantry (still adjusting some for cav and elephants though), model is still looking for modellers, and map is adding some cities an removing some unimportant one...

what kind of modeling are you talkng about?

[wlesmana]

Full time skinner (modeler) and texturer since I can only help part-time. But I think the main help needed right now is campaign mapper. Models can come later, we can just use placeholder models right now but campaign map needs to be priority since we will need it to adjust historical accuracy and gameplay.

[Cute Wolf]

Full time skinner (modeler) and texturer since I can only help part-time. But I think the main help needed right now is campaign mapper. Models can come later, we can just use placeholder models right now but campaign map needs to be priority since we will need it to adjust historical accuracy and gameplay.

You forgot... I am the Mapper :wink: and the map is on the very edge of finishing... just adding and moving some cities and adding some heights (I allready made, all flat map)

[Rahwana]

I've modifying the unit list for a bit after taking a whole night testing with vanilla models, and decide to change the balancing sheet for infantry a bit:


Histtory log :

2010 Jan 05 -> Sonic start sketching the equation

2010 Jan 15 -> Tweaked price of Pike (we did pay attention that pike is more exspensive than a sword, but it was more obtainable)
Modify upkeep (the weapon maintenance are included, not just mere eating and lifestyle sustained)
Tweaked Cost a bit (so there are still broad gap in armoured and unarmoured infantry price, but not too broad)
Give better description for light line unit
And getting more realistic stats for units =p --> Thanks for Cute Wolf that help me spent all night testing with vanilla models

==================================
MELAYU FACTIONAL BASED TROOPS
==================================


;Unarmoured Melayu Militia (Completed model)
type melayu infantry milisi melayu
dictionary melayu_infantry_milisi_melayu ; Milisi Melayu
category infantry
class light
voice_type Vanilla Eastern Infantry
soldier nus_dagangsatebawatombak, 60, 0, 0.95
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_swim
formation 1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 6, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 11, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr light_spear
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 1, 11, 2, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat -2
stat_ground 0, 0, 1, -2
stat_mental 13, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 40
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 884, 171, 68, 58, 884
ownership aceh, malaka, palembang, sriwijaya, bintara, slave
AOR REGION:
aceh, malaka = all
sriwijaya, palembang, bintara = Aceh, Sumut, Sem Malaka, Riau, Kepri, Sunda Kelapa
SHORT DESCR:
Militia forces, having unimpressive skill, but some better determination than most militias had, these men could be counted to bought substantial time against superrior forces, even if they will slaughtered in droves as the result.
BONUS:
morale +3

; Melayu Archer militia, carrying bow and shield, unarmoured.
type melayu infantry milisi panah melayu
dictionary melayu_infantry_milisi_panah_melayu ; Milisi Panah Melayu
category infantry
class missile
voice_type Vanilla Eastern Archers
soldier nus_dagangsatebawapisauamapanah, 60, 0, 0.8
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, hardy, can_swim
formation 1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 6, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 3, 1, arrow_un, 116, 24, missile, simple, piercing, none, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 7, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.08
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 1, 10, 2, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat -2
stat_ground 0, 0, 1, -2
stat_mental 9, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 20
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 767, 154, 92, 58, 767
ownership aceh, malaka, slave
AOR REGION:
aceh, malaka = all
SHORT DESCR:
Militia forces, recruited mostly from countryside peasants and port regions, choose to carry bows and operate as solely missile troops. Pathetically weak, but with proper support, they can become annoying skirmishers against most lightly armoured units.

; Regular Melayu light infantry, armed with bows, light shields, and using spears two-handed.
type melayu infantry serdadu laot
dictionary melayu_infantry_serdadu_laot ; Serdadu Laot
category infantry
class light
voice_type Vanilla Eastern Infantry
soldier nus_pemanahpakedestarbawatombak2tangan, 50, 0, 1
officer melayu_kepalaregu
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, very_hardy, can_swim
formation 1, 1.2, 2, 2.4, 5, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 3, 5, arrow_un, 116, 16, missile, simple, piercing, none, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec
stat_sec 13, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.144
stat_sec_attr light_spear
stat_pri_armour 4, 11, 2, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat -2
stat_ground 0, 0, 1, -2
stat_mental 10, normal, trained
stat_charge_dist 40
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1442, 263, 135, 171, 1442
ownership aceh, malaka, sriwijaya, palembang, slave
AOR REGION:
aceh, malaka = all
sriwijaya, palembang = Aceh Timur, Deli, Riau, Kepri, Malaysia
SHORT DESCR:
Regular light infantry, carrying bows and wielding two handed spears, these men envolved from marine combat troops long time ago, which their two handed spears act as boarding pike against enemy on the deck. But as sea fighting is more and more decided by ballista and cannon combat alone, they are now used as primary land infantry.


; Acehnese light mercenary swordsmen, armed with swords, wooden shields, and padded clothings.
type melayu infantry serdadu pedeung
dictionary melayu_infantry_serdadu_pedeung ; Serdadu Pedeung
category infantry
class light
voice_type Vanilla Iberian Infantry
soldier nus_prajuritpedangpakedestar, 50, 0, 1.05
officer melayu_kepalaregu
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, mercenary_unit, can_swim
formation 1.2, 1.5, 2.4, 3, 5, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 10, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 4, 10, 4, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat -2
stat_ground 0, 0, 3, -2
stat_mental 11, normal, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1427, 269, 90, 192, 1427
ownership aceh, palembang, slave
AOR REGION:
aceh, palembang = Aceh, Sumut, Sumbar
MERCENARY POOL:
Aceh-Sumut, Sumbar-bengkulu
SHORT DESCR:
Light swordsmen equipped solely for close combat fighting, these men carry their double bladed pedeung swords with pride and given right time and place, they can rip apart most enemies in brutal frontline assault, but their lack of proper protection made them mostly unsuitable to fight against heavy armed and armoured units on even terms.
BONUS:
morale +1

; Malayan light militia swordsmen, armed with swords and large bamboo shields.
type melayu infantry laskar melayu
dictionary melayu_infantry_laskar_melayu ; Laskar Melayu
category infantry
class light
voice_type Vanilla Iberian Infantry
soldier nus_prajuritpedangpakedestar, 50, 0, 1
officer melayu_kepalaregu
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, very_hardy, can_swim
formation 1.2, 1.5, 2.4, 3, 5, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 10, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 1, 11, 4, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat -2
stat_ground 0, 0, 3, -2
stat_mental 11, impetuous, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1187, 227, 90, 78, 1187
ownership aceh, malaka, palembang, sriwijaya, bintara, slave
AOR REGION:
aceh, malaka = all
sriwijaya, palembang, bintara = Aceh, Sumut, Sem Malaka, Riau, Kepri, Sunda Kelapa
SHORT DESCR:
Light swordsmen are useful element in a proper army, but finding suitable men that willing to carry the sword and charge towards enemy line means that a lot of these swordsmen are impetuous and inexperienced young men, they may be lack proper equipments, but they made up with raw, reckless courage.
BONUS:
morale +1

; Malaka elite marine infantry, armed with javelins and axes, wearing padded armour
type melayu infantry kampak laot
dictionary melayu_infantry_kampak_laot ; Kampak Laot
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Vanilla Mummy Axemen
soldier nus_pakedestarbawalembingamakapak, 30, 0, 1.2
mount_effect chariot +5
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, hardy, can_swim
formation 1.2, 1.5, 2.4, 3, 4, square
stat_health 1, 2
stat_pri 7, 9, javelin, 52, 5, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown ap
stat_sec 15, 9, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, axe, 0 ,0.165
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 8, 13, 3, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat -2
stat_ground 0, 0, 3, -2
stat_mental 15, impetuous, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2401, 476, 217, 333, 2401
ownership malaka, slave
AOR REGION:
malaka = Malaka, Johor, Pahang, Perak, Pattani, Kutaraja, Bentan, Tumasik
SHORT DESCR:
These men are the elite regulars of Malakan navy, primarily armed with axe that they use to climb up enemy decks and slaughter enemy crews within, they are the real menace of the sea, even some of them had some piracy background, made them somewhat hot headed, but they are still at their best when it comes to all round assault infantry.

; Malaka pikemen, wearing light mail, armed with pike and hardy enough to tire enemy troops, but not an outstanding troops themself.
type melayu infantry laskar tombak panjang
dictionary melayu_infantry_laskar_tombak_panjang ; Laskar Tombak Panjang
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Vanilla East Pikemen
soldier nus_pakedestarbawasarissasamapedangpendek, 50, 0, 1.1
officer melayu_kepalaregu
officer melayu_pembawapanji
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, very_hardy
formation 1.3, 1, 2.6, 2, 5, square, phalanx
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 13, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.1
stat_pri_attr long_pike, spear
stat_sec 9, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 6, 10, 0, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 9, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1376, 272, 129, 227, 1376
ownership aceh, malaka, slave
AOR REGION:
aceh, malaka = all
SHORT DESCR:
The kingdom of Malaka (and melayu people afterall) try to counter early portugese Invasion with some desperate improvement, including getting longspears to counter portugese pikemen that invading their kingdom, these men are ultimately failed, but at least they are depicted as capable to exhaust enemy pikemen for a while.
BONUS:
stamina +2

; Aceh-Malaka arabian styled heavy infantry, armed with long scimitars and round metal buckler, fight in middle eastern styled, light chainmail armour.
type melayu infantry pedang kauman
dictionary melayu_infantry_pedang_kauman ; Pedang Kauman
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Vanilla Numidian Legionaire
soldier nus_prajuritgayaarabbwapedang, 40, 0, 1.25
officer melayu_kepalaregu
officer melayu_pembawapanji
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest
formation 1, 1.5, 2, 3, 4, square
stat_health 1, 2
stat_pri 11, 9, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.205
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 10, 8, 3, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat 3
stat_ground 0, 0, -2, -2
stat_mental 12, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2063, 414, 157, 409, 2063
ownership aceh, malaka, slave
AOR REGION:
aceh, malaka = Malaysia, Sumatera, Semarang, Demak, Ampel
SHORT DESCR:
Long contact with Islamic powers at middle east influence many Sultanates at Sumatera and Malaka to employ heavy infantry similar to their middle eastern brethrens. Wearing light arabian mails, conical helmets, and carrying long scimitars, these men could be employed as shock troopers towards enemy infantry formations, or holding the crucial part of the battle line.

; Malakan strait infantry, armed with long scimitars, wearing no defensive measures except plain cloth, they are inferior, cheap shock troopers.
type melayu infantry tentara serbu malaka
dictionary melayu_infantry_tentara_serbu_malaka ; Tentara Serbu Malaka
category infantry
class light
voice_type Vanilla Hillmen
soldier nus_pakedestarbawapedangngabawatameng, 40, 0, 1.25
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, very_hardy
formation 1.3, 1.3, 2.6, 2.6, 4, square
stat_health 1, 2
stat_pri 13, 11, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.225
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 1, 13, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat -2
stat_ground 0, 0, 3, -2
stat_mental 15, impetuous, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1302, 266, 204, 38, 1302
ownership aceh, malaka, slave
AOR REGION:
aceh, malaka = Malaysia, Kepri, Riau
SHORT DESCR:
Intensive trade activity at the Malakan strait also bring intensive piracy activity aboard, these men are those who had some experience as counter-pirate militia, but even some of them are former pirates themself. Armed with Scimitars, and getting either reckless courage or religious zeal, these men are capable to shattering enemy line with one furious charge.
BONUS:
morale +5

; Acehnese shock troopers, 2 handed scimitars with light mail corslet, comprised from the cadres of the Askar Baitul Maqdis military academy
type melayu infantry peusangan askar
dictionary melayu_infantry_peusangan_askar ; Peusangan Askar
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Vanilla Sacred Band
soldier nus_pakedestarbawaklewang2tangan, 30, 0, 1.25
officer melayu_kepalaregu
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, hardy
formation 1.5, 2, 3, 4, 3, square
stat_health 1, 2
stat_pri 13, 15, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.285
stat_pri_attr ap
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 6, 15, 0, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, -2, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1872, 375, 286, 227, 1872
ownership aceh
AOR REGION:
aceh = Aceh, Deli
SHORT DESCR:
These men are the cadre of Askar Baitul Maqdis military academy. While supposed to get in a command position after completing their education, these young cadets are more than eager when the Sultan called them for war. Armed with large scimitars and wearing chainmail shirt, they are often become decisive shock troopers.

; Cheap line infantry from central Sumatera lands, armed with war axes and javelins, wearing padded corslets and realible enough to form a line.
type melayu infantry tentara melayu dalam
dictionary melayu_infantry_tentara_melayu_dalam ; Tentara Melayu Dalam
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Vanilla Mummy Axemen
soldier nus_pakedestarbawalembingamakapak, 45, 0, 1.2
mount_effect chariot +5
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, mercenary_unit
formation 1.3, 1.3, 2.6, 2.6, 5, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 5, 7, javelin, 48, 2, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown ap
stat_sec 9, 7, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, axe, 0 ,0.165
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 6, 11, 3, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 0, 0, 3, -2
stat_mental 9, normal, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1485, 287, 115, 257, 1485
ownership aceh, malaka, palembang, sriwijaya, slave
AOR REGION:
aceh, malaka = Sumbar, Riau, Bengkulu, Sumsel, Jambi
palembang, sriwijaya = Sumatera, Babel
MERCENARY POOL:
Sumbar-bengkulu, Riau-Kepri-Babel
SHORT DESCR:
These men are soldiers of Melayu Dalam, the area near the central Sumatera. They are armed as light line infantry, armed with axes and capable to form a reliable battle line.

; Light infantry from central Sumatera lands, armed with several light javelins for skirmish, as well as proper spears in overhead manner for melee.
type melayu infantry milisi melayu dalam
dictionary melayu_infantry_milisi_melayu_dalam ; Milisi Melayu Dalam
category infantry
class skirmish
voice_type Vanilla Carthaginian Skirmishers
soldier nus_ngapaketopibawalembingradabanyaktombakdipakediatas, 55, 0, 1.05
mount_effect chariot +7, elephant +9
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, very_hardy, can_swim
formation 1.2, 1.4, 2.4, 2.8, 5, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 5, 5, javelin, 60, 7, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr thrown
stat_sec 13, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.15
stat_sec_attr light_spear
stat_pri_armour 1, 12, 2, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat -2
stat_ground 0, 0, 3, -2
stat_mental 8, impetuous, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 994, 185, 140, 58, 994
ownership aceh, malaka, palembang, sriwijaya, bintara, slave
AOR REGION:
aceh, malaka, bintara = Sumbar, Riau, Bengkulu, Sumsel, Jambi, Babel
palembang, sriwijaya = Sumatera, Babel
SHORT DESCR:
Skirmishing tactics, primarily developed via ambush and guerilla warfare, best suited in swampy forest of central sumatera. These men are rather well skilled militia forces, but their lack of equipment as well as proper training made them suspectible to some degree of not well thinked actions.

; Malayan Slingers, somewhat a specialist unit, notice that stone projectile will be made inaccurate though :), so don't complain about long range
type melayu infantry aliali
dictionary melayu_infantry_aliali ; Ali - Ali
category infantry
class missile
voice_type Venilla Eastern Slingers
soldier nus_dagangsatebawaaliali, 45, 0, 0.85
mount_effect chariot +3, elephant +3
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, can_sap, very_hardy, can_swim
formation 1.5, 2, 3, 4, 5, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 2, 1, stone, 180, 32, missile, simple, blunt, none, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr ap
stat_sec 7, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.08
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 1, 10, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat -2
stat_ground 0, 0, 1, -2
stat_mental 9, low, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 773, 153, 79, 38, 773
ownership aceh, malaka, palembang, sriwijaya, slave
AOR REGION:
aceh, malaka, palembang, sriwijaya = Deli, Riau, Sumbar, Kepri, Babel, Malaysia, Nias, Mentawai
SHORT DESCR:
Slings are quite ancient weapons, and not surprisingly, the men capable to using it properly are few and limited to some local tribes who still utilize them. They are cheap levies, and perhaps best used in long range bombardment without specific targets, because their missiles are quite inaccurate.
PENALTY;
morale -2


Now, how about those "Sample units?"

[Rahwana]

Anyone had something to say about guns (currently, we are testing the stats with Vanilla Bucelarii, getting them siege_missile attribute, and siege weapon type, the projectile is "flaming" bullets (actually the stone which some better slingers thrown)) -> if we set normal arrow damage to 3 and 4, so what is the required standard damage for guns? (well, about getting AP attribute, or simply give them high damage - their 160 projectile speed are allready overwhelming)

[plutoboyz]

Sampurasun!
I'm from Bandung. I can help you with history of Pajajaran and other Hinduism Kingdom. but for modding I doubt I can help you.

[plutoboyz]

btw why Ganesh :bigcry:.

you can use Kujang or Tiger.

but I suggest this, due to Tritangtu

http://stat.ks.kidsklik.com/files/2009/12/untitled-2-copy.jpg

[Rahwana]

Hahaha, trims plutoboyz

Gw kuliah di ITB, dan kita waktu cari lambang perang yang dapat dikenali dari jauh (ingat mekanisme perang RTW), dan relatif simpel untuk digunakan sebagai motif pada pasukan (dan mudah dikenali), kita akhirnya milih lambang ITB (ganesha), karena selain mudah dikenali, dan diskin kedalam unit, arca Ganesha juga banyak ditemuin dalam benteng 2 pajajaran kan? sedangkan kalau kujang, sepertinya masih mungkin... tanya Cute Wolf kalo mau lebih jelas, dia artis 2d kita...

*. NB: kita ber2 kuliah di ITB, jadi mungkin si CW memberi lambang ITB sebagai kebangaan almamater :wall: kalau ada lambang yang dipergunakan secara luas selain ganesha mungkin bisa diganti.....

[Rahwana]

I've give the half finished unit lists to Cute Wolf, and he will drawn all the unit concept by hand now.... so who's the modeller? ready to take your job....

[plutoboyz]

Hahaha, trims plutoboyz

Gw kuliah di ITB, dan kita waktu cari lambang perang yang dapat dikenali dari jauh (ingat mekanisme perang RTW), dan relatif simpel untuk digunakan sebagai motif pada pasukan (dan mudah dikenali), kita akhirnya milih lambang ITB (ganesha), karena selain mudah dikenali, dan diskin kedalam unit, arca Ganesha juga banyak ditemuin dalam benteng 2 pajajaran kan? sedangkan kalau kujang, sepertinya masih mungkin... tanya Cute Wolf kalo mau lebih jelas, dia artis 2d kita...

*. NB: kita ber2 kuliah di ITB, jadi mungkin si CW memberi lambang ITB sebagai kebangaan almamater :wall: kalau ada lambang yang dipergunakan secara luas selain ganesha mungkin bisa diganti.....

waduh... lambang almameter ternyata:laugh4:. memang sih ganesha banyak ditemukan di situs arkeoligi pajajaran.


ngomong-ngomong, Kasultanan jawi logonya kabupaten demak kan?

oh iya hampir lupa. di pajajaran, Baladia onom galuh masuk jadi unit gak?

[plutoboyz]

Oh right! Now I think about two types of Bodyguards for each factions (but then, some certain similar cultured factions will share bodyguards of course)

For Native factions:
- Infantry (armoured heavy infantry) as the guard of the Royalty
- Mounted (maybe melee, chariot, or missile) for the recruited generals, as well as the AI case, the scripted to spawn generals... as historical evidence says that the career generals usually moved to encourage and help his troops (implied they get a cavalry bodyguards for mobility), and usually (with some notable exception), the Royalty just sit back and encircled by his bodyguards (notice: in Babad Tanah Jawi it written as "Lungguh ing Patilesan" means LITERALLY SIT ON SHOULDER MOUNTED CART, watching the battle rages... lazy coward rulers :furious3:... so they got infantry bodyguards.

For Europeans:
- Musket armed Infantry bodyguards... (renamed Family Members as Civilian Officials) for those born in the family tree
- Cavalry, just like the ETW bodyguards, albeit with better stats :p

I suggest Elephant for Padjajaran, due to Pasukan Gajah Putih Siliwangi.

[plutoboyz]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=147&pictureid=2024
...
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=147&pictureid=2025
...

sorry friend, aren't that too absurd if you use this model for Pajajaran.

[Skullheadhq]

I could make some nice symbols for European factions, if you want...

[Rahwana]

sorry friend, aren't that too absurd if you use this model for Pajajaran.

JAWA - dipake sama jateng dan jatim..... :clown:

[Skullheadhq]

You can use this symbol if you want:
https://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6250/66368186.jpg

[plutoboyz]

JAWA - dipake sama jateng dan jatim..... :clown:

duhhh bodohnya aku:wall:

disitu ada tulisan Pajajaran jadi dikira buat pajajaran juga

[Cute Wolf]

duhhh bodohnya aku:wall:

disitu ada tulisan Pajajaran jadi dikira buat pajajaran juga

AOR unit mas.... Area Of Recruitment :) Salam Kenal.... mau gabung juga?

[plutoboyz]

AOR unit mas.... Area Of Recruitment :) Salam Kenal.... mau gabung juga?

Mau!

[Cute Wolf]

Ok, and hence I allready verified sonic's calculation sheet (having tested it's campaign balance with modifying a certain mod which it has about the very same price range and combat mechanics, and what I say it gives a lot of AI recruitment in realistic terms (0 recruitment turns for levy units, 1 for regular, and 2 for elite), but still rather balanced and not draining much treasury anyway (but still DRAIN your significant proportion of da treasury).....

Well, cavalry cost and upkeep is guessed out... so all we left is pricing teh Elephants and Chariots

EDIT : And I have start working on the unit concept, that's why sonic gives me his unit list to verivy, whether units could share a model, and just get alternate skin (to save the time for modellers)....

Dan lu Sonic, tetep riset unit selain melayu.... kita masih banyak unit yang harus dicari dan dibikin konsepnya

[Cute Wolf]

I made the development thread on the Forge : https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2418049#post2418049

But anyway, I wnt to ask if this thread could be reserved for Indonesian / Malayan language discussion, because some historical data / research will inevitably use our mumbling who most the english readers couldn't understand... :embarassed:

Anyway (INDONESIA / MELAYU)

Sudah, kalo mau ngomong soal sejarah, diskusinya disini saja yah.... yang tread di forge buat development yang serius, ok? :2thumbsup:

[Quirinus]

Sorry about late reply...

The names:

Unarmoured Melayu Militia --> Melayu Light Militia
Ahh... personally I feel a word like "light" would be better than "unarmoured".

Melayu Archer militia --> Melayu Archer Militia
no change

Regular Melayu light infantry --> Melayu Regular Infantry / Melayu Infantry Regulars
The impression I get from the short descr is that it's a normal infantry unit that serves as the backbone of an army, so I feel like the "light" here is better omitted, since the name is pretty long.

Acehnese light mercenary swordsmen --> Acehnese Light Swordsmen / Acehnese Swordsmen
I feel that four words is a bit long for a unit name... and the merc part can be mentioned in the descr (something like "they often hire themselves as mercs for various factions" etc.) Same comment for the use of the word "light", however I guess Acehnese Swordsmen sounds a bit like a heavy inf. unit.

Malayan light militia swordsmen --> Malayan Militia Swordsmen
Same comment for the word "light" as above, "light" feels redundant with "militia", which to my mind already implies light troops anyway.

Malaka elite marine infantry --> Malakan Elite Marines
Dunno, just "elite marines" somehow sounds more kickass to me. haha.

Malaka pikemen --> Malakan Pikemen
no change

Aceh-Malaka arabian styled heavy infantry --> Moorish Heavy Infantry / Arabian Heavy Infantry
I don't play M2TW or ETW, is there a heavy infantry unit in the Arabian factions' rosters with an Arabian name taht we could adopt?

Malakan strait infantry --> Malakan Strait Infantry
no change

Acehnese shock troopers --> Acehnese Shock Troopers / Acehnese Shock Infantry
no change, with alternate name suggestion

Cheap line infantry from central Sumatera lands --> Sumateran Infantry / Hillmem / Axemen
Since they are exclusively avaliable in Sumatera, I thought maybe just "Sumateran Infantry", "Sumateran Hillmen" or "Sumateran Axemen". Don't know if there's a translation for "Melayu Dalam". "Inner-Malaya"? That can't be right. :confused:

Malayan Slingers --> Malayan Slingers / Malayan Levy Slingers
no change, with alternate name suggestion


Is this what I was supposed to do? Sorry if it's not. :sweatdrop:

Anyways I think I could take a shot at injecting some flavour into the unit descriptions (with some help with the facts) if you want, I can do it over the next one or two days.

[Cute Wolf]

Yeah, thanks quirinus! :idea2: it was good job then.... But what about their "Melayu naming" - it was made by Sonic... you two should get in contact then.... :yes:

[plutoboyz]

Hey cute wolf, how about this for Pajajaran Logo?
https://img682.imageshack.us/img682/2299/graphic1w.png
Better than ITB's Ganesh I think

[Quirinus]

But what about their "Melayu naming"
Do you mean you wanted the unit names translated into Malay, or... :sweatdrop: Sorry, a bit slow.

[Cute Wolf]

Do you mean you wanted the unit names translated into Malay, or... :sweatdrop: Sorry, a bit slow.

Yah, their name in Malay (soory my bad english....)


And Plutoboyz....
Hmm... tiger was actually a common symbolism in Hindu - Buddhist kingdoms in Indonesia... what made the Pajajaran different was a lot of Ganesha statues found.... interesting, but I must wait for sonic first... afterall, he was the head historian... and know better about that

[Rahwana]

https://img682.imageshack.us/img682/2299/graphic1w.png

Ok, so CW want me to speak in this matter...

Actually, this symbol is quite Ambigous... it was certain that Prabu Siliwangi was called "Macan", but it was rather a special case because his Heroism, and Ganesha statues are far more common in Pajajaran sites. Doesn't expect the faction will take a symbol which they only use in just 20 years, replacing what they use for 400 years.

Memang benar kalau masih belum jelas bahwa lambang ganesha belum tentu lambang pajajaran... tapi itu simbol yang paling sering terlihat... kalau lambang kujang atau macan... hanya ada pada beberapa situs tertentu, yang berhubungan dengan prabu siliwangi...

[Quirinus]

Yah, their name in Malay (soory my bad english....)
Okay I will get to that... though as you guessed, I am Chinese, and English educated, so my Bahasa Melayu is full of holes. Give me two days? :book:

Also, question to Sonic:

Preliminary research suggests that modern Malay names are derived from Arabic, Javanese and Sanskrit in addition to Malay... do you mean me to compile the Malay-derived names only, or the others as well? The article also says that most modern Malay names are Arabic-derived, I don't know if that was the case in the timeframe of the game?

[Cute Wolf]

Heheh... That's ok, as I was Chinese descendants too... :laugh4:...

AFAIK, most of the Malayan names after the spread of Islam are Arabic derived first name, with still Indo-language family name...... But they will use several words then...

We'll try to adjust the family name and front name... just like in EB, where two word front and family name can be found.... Just like "Abdullah Abdul Razak" will be "Abdullah" First name, and "Abdul_Razak" family name, and "Alaudin Riayat Syah" will be named "Alaudin_Riayat Syah", and "Seri Prameswara Dewa Syah" will be named "Seri_Prameswara_Dewa Syah"... so the Engine could generate some cross genrated name as "Alaudin Riayat Abdul Razak"...... well... did u understand?

[plutoboyz]

friend, I know this is crazy idea but how about putting ganesha, tiger and kujang together?

https://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9545/graphic2.png

sorry, can't resist:laugh4:

[Cute Wolf]

Hahaha... don't forget this is a historical based mod, so we try to stick to what history say :grin:

Oh yeah, nice pic! :thumbsup:.... I want to show it at my almamater.... :laugh4: (Gw dan sonic kuliah di ITB!!!) and hat they'll say....

[plutoboyz]

since we dont have information about Pajajaran logo, why we not use Galuh logo? they are once one kingdom, right? and during Sri Baduga Maharaja, this two kingdom is reuited.

[Cute Wolf]

since we dont have information about Pajajaran logo, why we not use Galuh logo? they are once one kingdom, right? and during Sri Baduga Maharaja, this two kingdom is reuited.

According to our historians, the Ganesha were their military symbol.... the only statue that Sunan Gunung Jati destroyed when he raze Keraton Pajajaran was Ganesha one... so it was their symbol of Military might...

[Rahwana]

They were reunited, it was right, but we must remember that Pajajaran is the dominant one. And if you ask about the authenticity of the Ganesh as their Military "Icon", we could say sure for 80% because they are always found near their guard posts. While the Galuh logo was far from military uses (Remember after all... this is Total War, and that logo would be fly at unit banner, as well as drawn on the Banner-Carrier officers.....)

Actually, the tiger symbol won't be used, but maybe we could use them for some mercenary skins afterall...

[plutoboyz]

According to our historians, the Ganesha were their military symbol.... the only statue that Sunan Gunung Jati destroyed when he raze Keraton Pajajaran was Ganesha one... so it was their symbol of Military might...

then be it! Ganesha.

but I've see many variation of ganesha symbol, which one?

[Cute Wolf]

then be it! Ganesha.

but I've see many variation of ganesha symbol, which one?

So that's why we took the easy way to gain a Ganesha Vector image :grin:
Copying our university logo..... :laugh4:

Seriously.... that Ganesha was based on arca found at the Sabuga...

[plutoboyz]

another question.

what kind of ship we use? pinisi, Jung Jawa, Jung Borobudur or jukung?

[Cute Wolf]

We'll think about it later... as we could use Roman ships for placeholder.... Ships is just eye candy then.... and when it was inluded, maybe it will look much like EB System of ships (extremely exspensive, because 1 ship means one full armada)

[Rahwana]

We'll think about it later... as we could use Roman ships for placeholder.... Ships is just eye candy then.... and when it was inluded, maybe it will look much like EB System of ships (extremely exspensive, because 1 ship means one full armada)

I think we won't use that system... paying exspensive upkeep for one armada just to shipping some small troops? meh.... I will made some variants of indonesian ships, with cheaper upkeep... so expect ship spamming and port blocade often... :devil:

[plutoboyz]

guys, I don't know if you still need this or not. its worth to read. maybe we can use it for aceh commander trait.
http://www.wacananusantara.org/4/60/struktur-militer-angkatan-perang-kerajaan-aceh-darussalam

[Cute Wolf]

Sonic allready have it... :oops:

BTW, what we lack is the information about Pajajaran military units, even the text didn't mention what weapons that their militias and regulars carry.... :yes: you should help to search that (aceh, Malaka, and Jawa are allready full blown with unit lists... but Central Sumateran and Pajajaran are few)

[plutoboyz]

Sonic allready have it... :oops:

BTW, what we lack is the information about Pajajaran military units, even the text didn't mention what weapons that their militias and regulars carry.... :yes: you should help to search that (aceh, Malaka, and Jawa are allready full blown with unit lists... but Central Sumateran and Pajajaran are few)

from my research of pajajaran unit:

-Pasukan Gajah Siliwangi (Some called it "Pasukan Gajah Putih Siliwangi")

Menurut sumber Portugis, di seluruh kerajaan, Pajajaran memiliki kira-kira 100.000 prajurit. Raja sendiri memiliki pasukan gajah sebanyak 40 ekor. Di laut, Pajajaran hanya memiliki enam buah Kapal Jung 150 ton dan beberaa lankaras (?) untuk kepentingan perdagangan antar-pulaunya (saat itu perdagangan kuda jenis Pariaman mencapai 4000 ekor/tahun).


-Pasukan Kuda Windu
special cavalry unit. riding Kuda windu, an unique horse. smaller than ordinary horse but faster

-Pasukan Belamati Pajajaran
Namun, pengetahuan masa lalu, siapa yang tahu secara persis. Taktik tempur Pajajaran yang kabarnya dimiliki oleh seribu anggota Pasukan Belamati Pajajaran, secara turun-temurun (terakhir dipunyai Dipati Ukur dan H. Prawatasari), tidak dicatat di kitab kuno yang kemudian jadi rebutan para pendekar seperti laiknya cerita-cerita silat karya Kho Ping Hoo.

-Baladia Onom Galuh
mystical betrayer army (similar to dead man of dunharrow on LOTR).
maybe we can make this as AOR UNIT.


for picture, I haven't found any picture. but we may use Nusantara online character :laugh4:.

[plutoboyz]

Pajajaran war equipment:
-Golok
-Tumbak
-Panah
-Kujang kuntul (used only by patih)
-Keris

[plutoboyz]

sorry for triple post, I can't edit my post.

I heard Museum Bumi Alit at Ciamis have good collection of Pajajaran artifact.

[Rahwana]

Yeah, it seems that you've got several pajajaran literatures... so maybe you should reccomend, what kind of weapons did their levies usually use...

[plutoboyz]

Yeah, it seems that you've got several pajajaran literatures... so maybe you should reccomend, what kind of weapons did their levies usually use...

Yeah I'm still looking for that. I just knew several weapon used in combat, but I haven't found for equipment of every unit.

[plutoboyz]

Yeah, it seems that you've got several pajajaran literatures... so maybe you should reccomend, what kind of weapons did their levies usually use...

I found this, few description from Museum Bumi Alit Artifact:
1. Pedang, cinderamata dari Baginda Ali RA, sebagai senjata yang digunakan untuk pembela diri dalam rangka menyebarluaskan agama Islam.

2. Cis, sebagai kelengkapan dalam berdakwah atau berkhutbah dalam rangka menyebarluaskan ajaran agama Islam.

3. Keris Komando, senjata yang digunakan oleh Raja Panjalu sebagai penanda kedudukan bahwa ia seorang Raja Panjalu.

4. Keris, sebagai pegangan para Bupati Panjalu.

5. Pancaworo, digunakan sebagai senjata perang pada zaman dahulu.

6. Bangreng, digunakan sebagai senjata perang pada zaman dahulu.

7. Gong kecil, digunakan sebagai alat untuk mengumpulkan rakyat pada zaman dahulu.

8. Kujang, senjata perang khas Sunda peninggalan seorang petapa sakti bernama Pendita Gunawisesa Wiku Trenggana (Aki Garahang) yang diturunkan kepada para Raja Panjalu.

ADD Pajajaran Troops:

Pajajaran Music corps, Supporting army morale

Dikenal oleh masyarakat sunda sejak masih memeluk agama Hindu dan pada masa kerajaan padjadjaran saat itu angklung di gunakan sebagai tanda waktu sembahyang dan pada masa jaman kerajaan Padjadjaran, kemudian di gunakan oleh kerajaan Padjadjaran sebagai instrument musik pada korps musik saat perang Bubat.

Fungsi angklung sebagai pemompa semangat rakyat masih terus terasa sampai pada masa penjajahan, itu sebabnya pemerintah hindia belanda sempat melarang masyarakat menggunakan angklung, pelarangan itu sempat membuat popularitas angklung menurun dan hanya di mainkan oleh anak- anak pada waktu itu.(kompas,tanggal 9 november 2007, halaman 14 kolom 7)Daimond 12:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[anz]

Wah kereen nih bro....

sayang gw gak ngerti ..ikut memantau bro...:wall:

[anz]

bro Bugis kingdom of Bone why not made separately with Gowa makasar bro??

sorry, my bad english..hhh

[wlesmana]

Modeler needs more pictoral references!

[plutoboyz]

Guys, do you know what is this weapon (the lowest)
http://wb8.itrademarket.com/pdimage/77/154877_pict0246.jpg
I'm little suspicious about it shape. it looks like kujang. and from the web where I found this image says

This product is some of souvenir from Sunda ( west Java)...
if this is true, maybe we can use this for Pajajaran army weaponry.

[Cute Wolf]

Modeler needs more pictoral references!

Wait for a bit Wlesmana :sweatdrop:

I still fed up with the final project (lagi TA gt loh...)

[Rahwana]

Wait for a bit Wlesmana :sweatdrop:

I still fed up with the final project (lagi TA gt loh...)

Bukannya TA lu tinggal cek SEM, terus impregnasi ion kedalam katalisnya? Cepet kerjain :whip:

Semoga sukses :2thumbsup:

[Cute Wolf]

Bukannya TA lu tinggal cek SEM, terus impregnasi ion kedalam katalisnya? Cepet kerjain :whip:

Semoga sukses :2thumbsup:

Jiah.... jangan ngomongin TA Gw disini :furious3: :oops: :laugh4:

Ntar... gw kalau udah beres ngurusin karakterisasinya gw gambar unit unitnya dah....

[Rahwana]

Jiah.... jangan ngomongin TA Gw disini :furious3: :oops: :laugh4:

Ntar... gw kalau udah beres ngurusin karakterisasinya gw gambar unit unitnya dah....

And stop whinning... start drawing! :whip:

[plutoboyz]

another Pajajaran Unit.
Ka Satrya Puragabaya, elit force of Pajajaran
...yakni Puragabaya. Mereka adalah para ksatria pilihan yang terdiri dari para putra bangsawan Pajajaran yang disiapkan menjadi pengawal pribadi para pejabat kerajaan....
Gambar Puragabaya by me
https://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9606/dsc00142id.jpg

[plutoboyz]

sorry for the pic. here.
https://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9606/dsc00142id.jpg

[Cute Wolf]

Did you sure they not wearing some kind of armour? Even Javanese militia cavalry wear a simple metal breastplate and armguards...... Nice concept BTW :thumbsup:

[plutoboyz]

Did you sure they not wearing some kind of armour? Even Javanese militia cavalry wear a simple metal breastplate and armguards...... Nice concept BTW :thumbsup:

I'm not sure too. many literature said Pajajaran army very relying on martial art. so I think they doesn't need armor and shield. their speed is their armor.

I draw it based on these
https://img36.imageshack.us/img36/7415/gambark.jpg

[Cute Wolf]

Hmm.... so in game terms of RTW-BI... they will be high skill, high damage, 2 hp units...

Wait for a moment... are you sure they didn't use any amour? (Tommorow, I'll go to Braga and check Kantor Pusat Budaya again....)

EDIT:

And for the Militia (which I'm sure still made the bulk of their army)... Sonic recently told me that their militia units are not armed with spears, but swords.... could you clarify that?

[plutoboyz]

Hmm.... so in game terms of RTW-BI... they will be high skill, high damage, 2 hp units...

Wait for a moment... are you sure they didn't use any amour? (Tommorow, I'll go to Braga and check Kantor Pusat Budaya again....)
..

I'm not sure?:no: Shield and armor might be used for some unit. but since they were noble solider, they must be have very high skill.
btw, we should visit some museum like Geusan Ulun and Bumi Alit.


...
EDIT:

And for the Militia (which I'm sure still made the bulk of their army)... Sonic recently told me that their militia units are not armed with spears, but swords.... could you clarify that?

since militia just a citizen, maybe They use Golok. for sunda culture we can call them Jawara instead of militia.

[Cute Wolf]

since militia just a citizen, maybe They use Golok. for sunda culture we can call them Jawara instead of militia.

They just carrying golok... and not Bow?

*. Javanese militia carry bow and golok... you can look my concept art several pages earlier.. they are mentioned as Jogo Karyo (literally "hansip"-Penjaga keamanan-Security Guards)...
If they also carry bows, we could use shared model for them....

[plutoboyz]

They just carrying golok... and not Bow?

*. Javanese militia carry bow and golok... you can look my concept art several pages earlier.. they are mentioned as Jogo Karyo (literally "hansip"-Penjaga keamanan-Security Guards)...
If they also carry bows, we could use shared model for them....

As far as I know, Pajajaran separate Archer and Sword. I have to do more research on this.

[Cute Wolf]

As far as I know, Pajajaran separate Archer and Sword. I have to do more research on this.

Hmm.... (sending an SMS to sonic)

Tommorow, we'll (hope to) update the unit lists again...

[plutoboyz]

Hmm.... (sending an SMS to sonic)

Tommorow, we'll (hope to) update the unit lists again...
good.:2thumbsup: any other question?

[plutoboyz]

sorry for the pic. here.
https://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9606/dsc00142id.jpg

EDIT: My bad, Their spear was Kujang not Keris. sorry:wall:

[plutoboyz]

do you need some description for pajajaran unit?

[Cute Wolf]

Yeah... sonic says he'll give the lists he made tommorow....

[plutoboyz]

Ok, I just found other unit from Sanghyang siksakandang karesian. it written:

...Dan perihatikanlah mereka yang dapat ditiru: mantri, gusti yang terkemuka, bayangkara yang menghadap, pangalasan. juru lukis, pandai besi. ahli kulit, dalang wayang, pembuat gamelan, pemain sandiwara, pelawak, peladang. penyadap. penyawah, penyapu. bela mati, juru moha, barat katiga, prajurit, pemanah, pemarang, petugas dasa dan penangkap ikan, juru selam dan segala macam pekerjaan. Semua setia kepada tugas untuk raja, itu semua patut ditiru sebab mereka melakukan tapan dalam negara...

...Segala macam hasil tempaan, ada tiga macam yang berbeda. Senjata sang prabu ialah: pedang, abet (pecut), pamuk, golok, peso teundeut, keris. Raksasa yang dijadikan dewanya, karena digunakan untuk membunuh. Senjata orang tani ialah: kujang. baliung. patik, kored, pisau sadap. Detya yang dijadikan dewanya, karena digunakan untuk mengambil apa yang dapat dikecap dan diminum. Senjata sang pendeta ialah: kala katri, peso raut, peso dongdang, pangot, pakisi. Danawa yang dijadikan dewanya, karena digunakan untuk mengerat segala sesuatu, Itulah ketiga jenis senjata yang berbeda pada sang prebu, pada petani, pada pendeta. Demikianlah bila kita ingin tahu semuanya, tanyalah pandai besi...


so, total unit I got:

Puragabaya: Elite royal Guard. most powerful unit I think.
weapon: tumbak and pedang
defensive: cloth, Kanuragan, martial art.

Pamanah: archer
weapon: Bow and arrow.
defensive: still unknown

Prajurit: standard soldier
weapon: Tumbak or Pedang.
defensive: Shield

Militia: citizen
weapon: bedog, baliung, Kujang bangkong.
defensive: none

(Mercenary)Jawara: mercenary champion
Weapon: golok
defensive: Martial art

Hulu Jurit: General
weapon: pedang, abet (pecut), pamuk, golok, peso teundeut, keris
defensive: unknown

Kuda windu: Cavalry unit
weapon: unsure, But looks like they use Tumbak and Sword.
defensive: unknown

Pasukan Gajah Siliwangi: Elephant cavalry
weapon: arrow, elephant's ivory.
defensive: unknown

Balamati Pajajaran: elite guard
Weapon: Pedang and Tumbak
defensive: (unsure) shield

but if able, could you add these?

(Mercenary) Baladia Onom Galuh: Mystical Betrayer army
weapon: various
defensive: since they were spirit, so...

Pasukan Angklung: morale support troops
weapon: Angklung music
defensive: none

[Rahwana]

Hmm... but CW said you named Pajajaran militia "Jawara"..... and with the info that they are sword armed... I think about made a "Supperior militia"... how about it?

[plutoboyz]

Hmm... but CW said you named Pajajaran militia "Jawara"..... and with the info that they are sword armed... I think about made a "Supperior militia"... how about it?

Ok, Thats better. Separate Jawara and Militia. I named Militia "Jawara". because Jawara is citizen, but have fighting skill.:2thumbsup:

[Cute Wolf]

So, what is their "militia" name? I'm sure we can't just place Indonesian - "Milisi Sunda" as a name, because Javanese militia got proper Javanese name (kalo melayu kita masih bisa ngeles dikit, tapi sunda dan Jawa itu sangat beda tata bahasanya)

[plutoboyz]

So, what is their "militia" name? I'm sure we can't just place Indonesian - "Milisi Sunda" as a name, because Javanese militia got proper Javanese name (kalo melayu kita masih bisa ngeles dikit, tapi sunda dan Jawa itu sangat beda tata bahasanya)

What is their Javanese name? Sunda dan Jawa yang sekarang memang sangat beda. tapi Sunda Kuna banyak memiliki kemiripan dengan Kawi. karena keduanya berakar pada sanskerta.

but seriously, I don't found any literature that said citizen recruited, armed and send to war. all of their soldier seems well trained.

[Cute Wolf]

Masalahnya adalah "Jogo Karyo" - Milisi Jawa.... bawaanya golok + panah.... gt... kata lu cuman bawa golok doang....

http://www.kaskus.us/images/smilies/ngakak.gif

- Lagi ngaskus

[plutoboyz]

Masalahnya adalah "Jogo Karyo" - Milisi Jawa.... bawaanya golok + panah.... gt... kata lu cuman bawa golok doang....

http://www.kaskus.us/images/smilies/ngakak.gif

- Lagi ngaskus

kalau yang dinamakan "militia" itu warga biasa yang dikirim ke medan tempur. sampai sekarang saya belum nemu itu catetannya warga sipil dikirim untuk bertempur. paling deket itu catetan tentang para jawara. mereka sih cuman petarung biasa yang kebetulan ikut perang kalau menyangkut kepentingan mereka atau dibayar. mangkanya saya tulis "mercenary".

soal "militia" alias relawan belum nemu bukti hisorisnya (untuk pajajaran) jadi kalau pun ada mereka bawanya Golok. karena setiap senjata itu ada aturan pemakainya tidak sembarang orang boleh pakai kujang atau lainnya (baca sanghyang siksakandang karesian). untuk warga sipil itu golok. paling jauh juga kujang, itu pun hanya kujang bangkong. jarang orang sipil yang punya kemampuan memanah yang masuk standar berperang. paling kemampuan memanah mereka rata-rata cuma cukup untuk berburu.

pedang, panah dan tumbak itu hanya digunakan orang militer.

[plutoboyz]

PAJAJARAN UNIT UPDATE:


Light Infantry:

-(existence doubted)Militia: citizen
weapon: bedog, baliung, Kujang bangkong.
defensive: none

-(Mercenary)Jawara: mercenary champion
Weapon: golok
defensive: Martial art
description: They are skilled fighter of their village. learning various deadly martial art make them an useful mercenary. their weapon, Golok is a short broad sword useful for cutting off enemy.

Heavy Infantry:

-Ka Satrya Puragabaya: Elite Feudal Army.
weapon: tumbak and pedang
defensive: cloth, Kanuragan, martial art.
description:Being a Puragabaya is a great honor. Puragabaya have a noble position among the communities. A Puragabaya combine nobleness, strength and eloquence of religion in him. Puragabaya a chosen young man who was appointed from among the nobility who have morals and manners of a noble and excellent physical ability. In order to become a Puragabaya must go through very heavy and difficult stages. Puragabaya required a simple life, living in a hermitage in the middle of the jungle, face exercises are the stakes are life. In addition to studying kanuragan art and martial art, Puragabaya also equipped with the religious knowledge. So a Puragabaya besides having very powerful and dangerous kanuragan, also has a high proficiency in religion.

-Pajurit Balamati Pajajaran: Elite Palace Guard
Weapon: Tumbak (standard weapon for guard) and Pedang
defensive: (unsure) shield.
Description: These are backbone of Pajajaran Military. secret recipes of the "Never-Defeated Pajajaran". Balamati is a great army numbered a thousand men. Their job is palace security and safety of the king as well as his officer and his relatives. As a Pajajaran royal bodyguard, Balamati vow to protect the honor of Pajajaran to death. Their oath has been proven in Bubat incident. They have some kind of attack that could break enemy chest, known as Sentak Dulang

-Pajurit: standard soldier
weapon: Pedang.
defensive: Shield

Missile Infantry:

-Pamanah: archer
weapon: Bow and arrow.
defensive: still unknown


Officer:

-Hulu Jurit: General
weapon: pedang, abet (pecut), pamuk, golok, peso teundeut, keris
defensive: unknown

Cavalry:

Kuda windu (removed, because it was Cirebon army)

-Pajurit Gajah Siliwangi: Elephant cavalry
weapon: arrow, elephant's ivory.
defensive: unknown



Suggestion:

-(Mercenary) Baladia Onom Galuh: Mystical Betrayer army
weapon: various
defensive: since they were spirit, so...

-Pajurit Angklung: morale support troops
weapon: Angklung music
defensive: none

That's all for now. this list will be updated as soon as I found more information.:book:

[Skullheadhq]

Also, the dutch translations are at the Portuguese Invasion thread.

[plutoboyz]

PAJAJARAN UNIT UPDATE:
just find another unit

Light Infantry:

-Pamarang: Soldier
weapon: Pedang
Defensive: unknown

-(existence doubted)Militia: citizen
weapon: bedog, baliung, Kujang bangkong.
defensive: none

-(Mercenary)Jawara: mercenary champion
Weapon: golok
defensive: Martial art
description: They are skilled fighter of their village. learning various deadly martial art make them an useful mercenary. their weapon, Golok is a short broad sword useful for cutting off enemy.

Heavy Infantry:

-Ka Satrya Puragabaya: Elite Feudal Army.
weapon: tumbak and pedang
defensive: cloth, Kanuragan, martial art.
description:Being a Puragabaya is a great honor. Puragabaya have a noble position among the communities. A Puragabaya combine nobleness, strength and eloquence of religion in him. Puragabaya a chosen young man who was appointed from among the nobility who have morals and manners of a noble and excellent physical ability. In order to become a Puragabaya must go through very heavy and difficult stages. Puragabaya required a simple life, living in a hermitage in the middle of the jungle, face exercises are the stakes are life. In addition to studying kanuragan art and martial art, Puragabaya also equipped with the religious knowledge. So a Puragabaya besides having very powerful and dangerous kanuragan, also has a high proficiency in religion.

-Pajurit Balamati Pajajaran: Elite Palace Guard
Weapon: Tumbak (standard weapon for guard) and Pedang
defensive: (unsure) shield.
Description: These are backbone of Pajajaran Military. secret recipes of the "Never-Defeated Pajajaran". Balamati is a great army numbered a thousand men. Their job is palace security and safety of the king as well as his officer and his relatives. As a Pajajaran royal bodyguard, Balamati vow to protect the honor of Pajajaran to death. Their oath has been proven in Bubat incident. They have some kind of attack that could break enemy chest, known as Sentak Dulang

-Pajurit: standard soldier
weapon: Pedang.
defensive: Shield

Missile Infantry:

-Pamanah: archer
weapon: Bow and arrow.
defensive: still unknown


Officer:

-Hulu Jurit: General
weapon: pedang, abet (pecut), pamuk, golok, peso teundeut, keris
defensive: unknown

Cavalry:

Kuda windu (removed, because it was Cirebon army)

-Pajurit Gajah Siliwangi: Elephant cavalry
weapon: arrow, elephant's ivory.
defensive: unknown



Suggestion:

-(Mercenary) Baladia Onom Galuh: Mystical Betrayer army
weapon: various
defensive: since they were spirit, so...

-Pajurit Angklung: morale support troops
weapon: Angklung music
defensive: none

That's all for now. this list will be updated as soon as I found more information.:book:

[Cute Wolf]

Hmm... you better check at the forge, Portugese invasion thread... I've uploaded final faction symbols...

[Rahwana]

And now... I want you all to help with Elephant prices... hmm... how much is elephant price now? anyone knows? :help:

[plutoboyz]

again, UNIT UPDATE
I bold new update. so you could easily notice it.
Light Infantry:

-Pajurit: standard soldier
weapon: Pedang.
defensive: Shield

Bayangkara: standard Guards
weapon: standard Tumbak
defensive: shield
They are Pajajaran law enforcer. trained to face criminal. they are also a palace guard. altough their name was similar to Majapahit's Bhayangkara, they are very different. They are more Police than Soldier.

-(existence doubted)Militia: citizen
weapon: bedog, baliung, Kujang bangkong.
defensive: none

-(Mercenary)Jawara: mercenary champion
Weapon: golok
defensive: Martial art
They are skilled fighter of their village. learning various deadly martial art make them an useful mercenary. their weapon, Golok is a short broad sword useful for cutting off enemy.

Heavy Infantry:

-Ka Satrya Puragabaya: Elite Feudal Army.
weapon: tumbak and pedang
defensive: cloth, Kanuragan, martial art.
Being a Puragabaya is a great honor. Puragabaya have a noble position among the communities. A Puragabaya combine nobleness, strength and eloquence of religion in him. Puragabaya a chosen young man who was appointed from among the nobility who have morals and manners of a noble and excellent physical ability. In order to become a Puragabaya must go through very heavy and difficult stages. Puragabaya required a simple life, living in a hermitage in the middle of the jungle, face exercises are the stakes are life. In addition to studying kanuragan art and martial art, Puragabaya also equipped with the religious knowledge. So a Puragabaya besides having very powerful and dangerous kanuragan, also has a high proficiency in religion.

-Pajurit Balamati Pajajaran: Elite Palace Guard
Weapon: Tumbak (standard weapon for guard) and Pedang
defensive: shield.
Description: These are backbone of Pajajaran Military. secret recipes of the "Never-Defeated Pajajaran". Balamati is a great army numbered a thousand men. Their job is palace security and safety of the king as well as his officer and his relatives. As a Pajajaran royal bodyguard, Balamati vow to protect the honor of Pajajaran to death. Their oath has been proven in Bubat incident. They have some kind of attack that could break enemy chest, known as Sentak Dulang

-Pamarang: Soldier
weapon: Pedang
Defensive: Shield


Missile Infantry:

-Pamanah: archer
weapon: Bow and arrow. also golok
defensive: still unknown. probably, none


Officer:

-Hulu Jurit: General
weapon: pedang, abet (pecut), pamuk, golok, peso teundeut, keris
defensive: His Balamati

Cavalry:

Kuda windu (removed, because it was Cirebon army)

-Pajurit Gajah Siliwangi: Elephant cavalry
weapon: arrow, elephant's ivory.
defensive: unknown

===========================================================================

Suggestion:

-(Mercenary) Baladia Onom Galuh: Mystical Betrayer army
weapon: various
defensive: since they were spirit, so...

-Pajurit Angklung: morale support troops
weapon: Angklung music
defensive: none

note:-please don't get confused between Pedang(Sword), Bedog(cutting tool) and Golok(short sword).
-Pajurit is Sunda Kuna for Army.

[plutoboyz]

And now... I want you all to help with Elephant prices... hmm... how much is elephant price now? anyone knows? :help:

I've no Idea about that.:shame:. I think it should be most expensive cavalry in faction.

[Rahwana]

Plutoboyz.... Bhayangkara is Majapahit Elite guards... Pajajaran didn't have them I think.... EDIT : Could you give more explaination to us? :sweatdrop:

Majapahit Bhayangkara is named from Bhayang (Shadow - bayangan), Kara (Core - pusat).... and was made into active militar unit, s well as secret police, by Gajahmada


I've no Idea about that.:shame:. I think it should be most expensive cavalry in faction.

Yeah... but how expensive? Did you think 10 horse is worth 1 Elephants?

[plutoboyz]

Plutoboyz.... Bhayangkara is Majapahit Elite guards... Pajajaran didn't have them I think.... EDIT : Could you give more explaination to us? :sweatdrop:

Majapahit Bhayangkara is named from Bhayang (Shadow - bayangan), Kara (Core - pusat).... and was made into active militar unit, s well as secret police, by Gajahmada...

they have, but different with Majapahit's Bhayangkara.
Source: Naskah Sanghyang Siksakandang Karesian
original:

Deung maka ilik-ilik dina turutaneun: mantri gusti kaasa-asa, bayangkara nu marek, pangalasan, juru lukis, pande dang, pande mas, pande gelang, pande wesi, guru wida(ng). medu, wayang, kumbang gending, tapukan, banyolan, pahuma, panyadap, panyawah, panyapu, bela mati, juru moha, barat katiga, pajurit, pamanah, pam(a)rang, pangurang dasa calagara, rare angon, pacelengan, pakotokan, palika, preteuleum, sing sawatek guna, Aya ma satya di guna di kahulunan. Eta kehna turutaneun kena eta ngawakan tapa di nagara.

Translated(Indonesia)
Dan perihatikanlah mereka yang dapat ditiru: mantri, gusti yang terkemuka, bayangkara yang menghadap, pangalasan. juru lukis, pandai besi. ahli kulit, dalang wayang, pembuat gamelan, pemain sandiwara, pelawak, peladang. penyadap. penyawah, penyapu. bela mati, juru moha, barat katiga, prajurit, pemanah, pemarang, petugas dasa dan penangkap ikan, juru selam dan segala macam pekerjaan. Semua setia kepada tugas untuk raja, itu semua patut ditiru sebab mereka melakukan tapan dalam negara,
I bold military unit


...
Yeah... but how expensive? Did you think 10 horse is worth 1 Elephants?
hmm... too much I think. 5 horse for 1 elephant is good.


...
Majapahit Bhayangkara is named from Bhayang (Shadow - bayangan), Kara (Core - pusat).... and was made into active militar unit, s well as secret police, by Gajahmada...
wow, GESTAPO

[Cute Wolf]

Good... so we have 2 unit with similar name.... maybe I suggest naming Majapahit Elite Guards :Bhayangkarapraja instead... because praja suffix means military cadet

[Rahwana]

wow, GESTAPO

No, they are a standing military unit with authority after several counter intelligence issues, much like kopassus


Good... so we have 2 unit with similar name.... maybe I suggest naming Majapahit Elite Guards :Bhayangkarapraja instead... because praja suffix means military cadet

Hmm... maybe -praja suffix is somewhat misleading with STPDN :laugh4: the sundanese Bhayangkara more deserve -praja suffix..... just kidding :clown:

Well, now seriously... adding -praja suffix for differentiating units is somewhat... made ahistorical additions... but in the sake of not confusing non-indonesian players, maybe we can add that... this is the first alternative...

But I have a second alternative, maybe we could search for "Bhayangkara" synonims in sundanese... it was way bit better...

Or Third Alternative... made the Majapahit Bhayangkara bodyguard unit (instead of Kraton Guards aka // Panjagan Njeron), so they could legally named "Punggawa Bhayangkara"

[plutoboyz]

Bayangkara for Pajajaran
Bhayangkara for Majapahit

how about that?

[Cute Wolf]

Bayangkara for Pajajaran
Bhayangkara for Majapahit

how about that?

Bayangkara = Pajajaran Regional security militia

Bhayangkara = Majapahit Elite Guards

---- Bedanya cuman pake BH apa ngga.... :laugh4: APPROVED!!!

[plutoboyz]

Bayangkara = Pajajaran Regional security militia

Bhayangkara = Majapahit Elite Guards

---- Bedanya cuman pake BH apa ngga.... :laugh4: APPROVED!!!

memang aslinya gitu, bedanya di konsonan awal ama kelas. coba aja baca naskahnya.

[plutoboyz]

btw, how about BGM? use default? or modify it too?

[Cute Wolf]

For our first relase, we'll use default music... we'll think about BGM later

[Rahwana]

For our first relase, we'll use default music... we'll think about BGM later

No... we will use Mak Lampir, Kuntilanak, and another mystery films soundtracks... as well as Lingsir wengi... as we secretly planned :devil: :skull:

[plutoboyz]

No... we will use Mak Lampir, Kuntilanak, and another mystery films soundtracks... as well as Lingsir wengi... as we secretly planned :devil: :skull:
so, we'll use some kind of "Indosiar-snake-guy-sinetron" BGM.:laugh4:

btw, degung? no? or other traditional music?

[Rahwana]

degung? no?

Well... maybe for the first relase... we won't actually include any music... (Now I am serious)
Because it wasn't our priority

[plutoboyz]

Well... maybe for the first relase... we won't actually include any music... (Now I am serious)
Because it wasn't our priority

ok, now lets forget music.

about our mods, how the progress? what we need except Modeler and skinners?

[Cute Wolf]

ok, now lets forget music.

about our mods, how the progress? what we need except Modeler and skinners?

Nothing except modellers and skinners :grin:

I have made the map, and sonic is the scripters...

Seriously... we just need modellers and skinners this time, as all is allready has someone who can doing that except modelling

[plutoboyz]

Nothing except modellers and skinners :grin:

I have made the map, and sonic is the scripters...

Seriously... we just need modellers and skinners this time, as all is allready has someone who can doing that except modelling

so we stuck here.....:wall:...

[Cute Wolf]

so we stuck here.....:wall:...

Don't say that... I just announce vacancy thread at TWC... maybe we'll get some modellers afterwards (if there was no skinners, I can skin myself... but I still learning about using 3DS max.... )

[plutoboyz]

Don't say that... I just announce vacancy thread at TWC... maybe we'll get some modellers afterwards (if there was no skinners, I can skin myself... but I still learning about using 3DS max.... )
good!:2thumbsup: hope we got replies there..

[Quirinus]

Hey guys... I have to resign from the team. Sorry about this, my results came out on Monday, and... well. You know the rest. :skull: Can probably make it again after May, if you guys still need any help by then. :no:

[Rahwana]

Hey guys... I have to resign from the team. Sorry about this, my results came out on Monday, and... well. You know the rest. :skull: Can probably make it again after May, if you guys still need any help by then. :no:


Don't worry then... :2thumbsup: thanks for all your input before Quirinus.. the four month before may is our modelling and skinning job (still need modellers though), and our historical research is only need to be cross verified once again (all historical research is done) Many thanks :bow:

[Cute Wolf]

Anyone knows Signifier One's account / username here? I PM him at TWC, asking for permission using his animation pack (as I Currently working with 3ds max, trying to create some units with vanilla anim, but found out that several unit needs specific animation, so we want to include his animation pack)

but he doesn't reply yet

[plutoboyz]

:sweatdrop:I thought it would be unfair if European got fancy and shiny faction logo while Nusantara faction not so I fix it, to make it equal and fashionable.


https://img709.imageshack.us/img709/1305/aceh.png
https://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2259/malaka.png

https://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9938/sriwijaya.png
https://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8905/sriwijayahindu.png

https://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4117/pajajaran.png
https://img714.imageshack.us/img714/731/bintara.png
https://img641.imageshack.us/img641/1408/majapahit.png

note:
-I've no Idea how to fix Bintara's logo. it shape so unclear?
-I'm little suspicious, why only majapahit got clean logo while other got Jagged-edge logo.:laugh4:


What do you think?

[plutoboyz]

also, do you still need Pajajaran unit concept? if you need I'll upload them soon.

[Cute Wolf]

also, do you still need Pajajaran unit concept? if you need I'll upload them soon.

1)Bintara's logo are taken from the Royal Stamp of Demak, taken from signature in the front of Mesjid agung demak's door. The Majapahit logo are the only one I has made in Corel :laugh4:, as the other logo is simply photoshop-work of copypasta and simple filling of PHOTO (thanks for refining.... BTW)


2) Maybe their cav, or I just give some cav from another jawa army?

[plutoboyz]

...
2) Maybe their cav, or I just give some cav from another jawa army?

that the problem... I haven't had cavalry description. so far I only know that Puragabaya also fight mounted.

[plutoboyz]

https://img25.imageshack.us/img25/731/bintara.png

Update: Bintara faction logo.

[Skullheadhq]

What about texturing some logos?

[Cute Wolf]

Anyone knows Signifier One's account / username here? I PM him at TWC, asking for permission using his animation pack (as I Currently working with 3ds max, trying to create some units with vanilla anim, but found out that several unit needs specific animation, so we want to include his animation pack)

but he doesn't reply yet

Just get his permission today... so we can start work arround with models at 3ds max, using his animation pack as reference skleton set


What about texturing some logos?

Hmm... maybe we should keep logo uniform this time....

[plutoboyz]

I hope This is Final.
Unit concept also already finished. just waiting my friend's scanner.

Light Infantry:

-Pajurit: standard soldier
weapon: Pedang.
defensive: Shield

Bayangkara: standard Guards
weapon: Tumbak
defensive: shield
They are Pajajaran law enforcer. trained to face criminal. they are also a palace guard. altough their name was similar to Majapahit's Bhayangkara, they are very different. They are more Police than Soldier.

-(existence doubted)Militia: citizen
weapon: bedog, baliung, Kujang bangkong.
defensive: none

-(Mercenary)Jawara: mercenary champion
Weapon: golok
defensive: Martial art
They are skilled fighter of their village. learning various deadly martial art make them an useful mercenary. their weapon, Golok is a short broad sword useful for cutting off enemy.

Heavy Infantry:

-Ka Satrya Puragabaya: Elite Feudal Army.
weapon: Kujang Pangarak and pedang
defensive: cloth, Kanuragan, martial art.
Being a Puragabaya is a great honor. Puragabaya have a noble position among the communities. A Puragabaya combine nobleness, strength and eloquence of religion in him. Puragabaya a chosen young man who was appointed from among the nobility who have morals and manners of a noble and excellent physical ability. In order to become a Puragabaya must go through very heavy and difficult stages. Puragabaya required a simple life, living in a hermitage in the middle of the jungle, face exercises are the stakes are life. In addition to studying kanuragan art and martial art, Puragabaya also equipped with the religious knowledge. So a Puragabaya besides having very powerful and dangerous kanuragan, also has a high proficiency in religion.

-Pajurit Balamati Pajajaran: Elite Palace Guard
Weapon:Kujang Pangarak and Pedang
defensive: shield.
Description: These are backbone of Pajajaran Military. secret recipes of the "Never-Defeated Pajajaran". Balamati is a great army numbered a thousand men. Their job is palace security and safety of the king as well as his officer and his relatives. As a Pajajaran royal bodyguard, Balamati vow to protect the honor of Pajajaran to death. Their oath has been proven in Bubat incident. They have some kind of attack that could break enemy chest, known as Sentak Dulang

-Pamarang: Soldier
weapon: Pedang
Defensive: Shield


Missile Infantry:

-Pamanah: archer
weapon: Bow and arrow. also golok
defensive: still unknown. probably, none


Officer:

-Hulu Jurit: General
weapon: pedang, abet (pecut), pamuk, golok, peso teundeut, keris
defensive: His Balamati

Cavalry:

-Kuda windu (removed, because it was Cirebon army)

-Ka Satrya Kuda Puragabaya: Mounted Elite Feudal Army.
weapon:n Kujang Pangarak and pedang
defensive: cloth, Kanuragan, martial art.

-Pajurit Gajah Siliwangi: Elephant cavalry
weapon: arrow, elephant's ivory.
defensive: unknown

================================================== =========================

[Rahwana]

Hmmm.... we're waiting for the scans! :2thumbsup:
BTW, I and CW are separated until next week (I Was at Cirebon now, and he in Bandung), so maybe we'll update this thread about next week.

[plutoboyz]

Hmmm.... we're waiting for the scans! :2thumbsup:
BTW, I and CW are separated until next week (I Was at Cirebon now, and he in Bandung), so maybe we'll update this thread about next week.

Here the scans, as promised.
PS: I forget to draw Jawara and Pajurit Gajah:shame:

-Puragabaya, 90% accurate
https://img249.imageshack.us/img249/8585/img007resize.jpg
-Balamati, 95% accurate
https://img638.imageshack.us/img638/56/img008resize.jpg
-Bayangkara, 90% accurate
https://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9584/img003resize.jpg
-Pamanah, 90% accurate
https://img713.imageshack.us/img713/2871/img006resizehgj.jpg
-Pamarang, 90% accurate
https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/7008/img004resize.jpg
-Mounted Puragabaya, 90% accurate
https://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9751/img005resize.jpg


if you ask why no one 100% accurate, because I haven't found real authentic picture. all of that concept based on text description, ancient manuscript, oral tradition and archeological stuff from museum :sweatdrop:.

[Cute Wolf]

Just create a new forum for better managing our mod (but currently we made this forum as a "really drunken" forum....)

http://nu3tara.forumotion.net

[Rahwana]

Well, I allready made a lot of the mod concept, the final unit system (cutewolf will refine it soon), the historical research, and testing the balance system...

But now, I must withdraw myself from this mod, at least temporarily until Jul or August, as I must going to "employment practises lecture" (mata Kuliah Kerja Praktek), by going as physics (and maybe more) teacher at a highschool at mentawai. Well, actualy, that was a volunteer job because the lack of teacher there... well...

At least, next week, I will go with plane to padang, and then sail to the mentawai...

Cutewolf are allready know about this, and because of this, all the work of this mod are now all Cutewolf's authority...
I hope when I going back to Bandung, we allready had the firse relase of Nusantara : TW


Thank You very much!

[plutoboyz]

sorry for slow research. I have to translate some manuscript. I just got some info from my history teacher (luckily she is Pajajaran speacialist!). Pajajaran unit armor is mostly leather armor. its concealed under clothing.

tier 1 armor: Pajurit, Bayangkara, Pamanah
-leather armguard
-leather cuirass
-wooden shield
-leather arm ring

tier 2 armor: Pamarang, Balamati
-brass armguard
-leather cuirass
-leather-covered wooden shield
-decorated brass arm ring
-leather helmet (not sure how its looks)

tier 3 armor: Puragabaya(mounted and unmounted), hulu jurit
-gold-covered iron armguard
-leather cuirass
-decorated gold-covered iron arm ring.

also, Ganesh statue are considered as guardian statue. like sphinx statue on giza. probably because he is protector God. and there are many Hindu-Siva follower. altough, Pajajaran has its own religion (Sunda wiwitan).

just asking, will Pajajaran have military reform? Jayadewata reformed Pajajaran military and also dig a trench around Pakuan. and later pajajaran have access to firearm due to Sunda-Portuguese treaty.

[plutoboyz]

I propose this trait list for Pajajaran FM only.


-Tohaan (lord)
descr: This man have known for his stragical and tactical skill. He deserve this title.
effect: +command point, +morale, +loyalty, +security


-Silihwangi (Successor of Wangi)
descr: This man have done great deeds. He is true man.
effect: +influence, +management

-Bélapati
descr: For him, running from battlefield is a disgrace. This man fight to death!
effect: +morale, +loyalty

-Sang Haji Ratu Pakuan (King) or Sri Paduka Maharaja (still king)
better we take description and effect from faction leader trait

-Ngéwa Ka Jawa (Hate Javanese, much like hate roman on EB)
descr: Due to Bubat incident, this man hate Javanese. especially Majapahit.
effect: +Morale, +command point against Majapahit

ethnicity

-Pituin (Pure Sundanese)
descr: This man are pure descendant of Sunda.
effect: +Influence, +loyalty

-Urang Cai (Water man)
descr: This man Hometown is Kawali. Capital city of Galuh
effect: +Morale

-Urang Gunung (Mountain man)
descr: This man Hometown is Pakuan. Capital city of Sunda
effect: +hitpoint


and for naming
Name (no surname)taken from Sunda Galuh Kings

Jayadéwata
Tarusbawa
Harisdarma
Sanjaya
Tamperan
Barmawijaya
Gilingwesi
Windusakti
Limbur Kancana
Munding Ganawirya
Sri Jayabupati
Sanghyang Ageng
Darmaraja
Sang Mokténg Winduraja
Darmakusuma
Linggabuanawisésa (My fav!)
Bunisora
Susuktunggal
Surawisésa
Nilakéndra
Ragamulya
Suryakancana
Citraganda
Ragasuci
Sang Mokténg Taman
Linggadéwata
Atmayadarma
Rakeyan Kamuning
Pucukbumi
Mundinglaya
Guru Gantangan
Sang Pamanah Rasa
Cakrabuana
Walangsungsang
Sang Lumahing

Name. from known Tohaan
Jagabaya
Ratu Sangiang
Ratu Saréndét
Anepaken
Pitar

Name. from Novel
Banyak Sumba
Mandiminyak
Anggadipati
Wirapraja
Tajimaléla

and if possible, could you please make Pajajaran Monotheistic? for historical accuracy.

[Cute Wolf]

no, we won't made those in depth trait for first relase..... but maybe we could made generic ethnic traits for all native factions... I'm affraid too many interlinked traits will affect loading times and stability (proneness to CTD)

As for religion, we only have 3 in BI. and only those 3 could cause unrest.... :grin:
Pagan = renamed to "Hindu-Buddha"
Zoroastrian = renamed to "Islam"
Christian

and we did have floating religion swapping system.. means you could change your FM religion via trigger (such as building churches, mosques, or stay for quite a long time in provinces with temples), except for the Europeans (they have higher treshold).

Sonic allready set the plan and that was tested, and those interlinked traits allready take a lot of in EDCT

[plutoboyz]

umm... wolf, how about Hindu general picture? we can use ETW picture for European and some Muslim picture for Muslim faction. but how about Hindu faction? or we'll use photoshop?

https://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7942/002oek.jpg?

[Cute Wolf]

this is the rough map.... (more regions will be added soon)
https://img638.imageshack.us/img638/7636/25737140835409780515010.jpg

[Cute Wolf]

We'll use our friend's photos on facebook (remember: we'll only take those schoolmates .... )
Or maybe we could use Eastern and Nomad general's mix (heck, they must be "browned" a bit, except for Sriwijayan cultures, which had white faces)
And for the Wuropeans, I'll think we could copy that for M2TW... or using Roman and Greek General....

And check my FB, How about the new map? (darn, IM2 can't be used to upload on Photobucket or imageshack)

[plutoboyz]

You may use mine if needed (I'm Pituin). btw, egyptian portrait pretty fit well as shown above (for clothing and skin tone). but alas, I can't figure how to make their eyes less gloomy.

Good work on the map! may I see west java region? :P

[Cute Wolf]

yeah, after made the base map and islands we'll do the smaller regions.... now, collecting major and mnor cities that MUST be shown on map are another issue, because the map was rather small

[plutoboyz]

for some unknown reason, my instinct tell me to make this
https://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2051/banner1j.jpg
What do you think?

[Cute Wolf]

kita kan ngga ada region kalimantan... :grin:.... ntar aja... mending ngurusin kota2nya dulu.... ok?

[plutoboyz]

kita kan ngga ada region kalimantan... :grin:.... ntar aja... mending ngurusin kota2nya dulu.... ok?

itu kan yang lama cuma diganti fontnya. lagian kalau kalimantan dibuang jadi tanggung liatnya.

ada tugas lagi?

[Cute Wolf]

lagi nyari nama kota, udah tinggal nambahin region per region yang penting2... karena map nya rada kecil, hanya kota2 penting yg bisa masuk (digedein 2 pixel, dan udah bakalan CTD) - map ini batas dari landmass ratio sih...

BTW, nama region sangat perlu karena ccuma bisa ditentuin selama proses mapping (dan ngubah map yg udah jadi itu susah :cry:)

ini nama internalnya


Internal Names: faction int: rebel faction int: culture: culture int:

--- mapping
Aceh- sassanids- Kurds- melayu- eastern
Malaka- berbers- Poeni- melayu- eastern
Sriwijaya- franks- Franki- sriwijaya- nomad
Palembang- saxons- Jutes- nomad
Pajajaran- vandals- Scordisci- sunda- barbarian // atau // jawa- hun (tergantung sikon, baik dipisah apa ngga ama jawa)
Bintara- sarmatians- Sarmatians- jawa- hun
Majapahit- huns- Saka- jawa -hun
--- non mapping
Portugal- burgundii- no rebel f- european- roman
VOC- slavs- no rebel f- european- roman


maksudnya yg mapping, masuk di descr_regions sebagai faction default owner (yg revolt ke siapa), krn itu, yg eropa ngga ada rebel factionnya