Your favourite Clan from STW

[Kagemusha]

In order to warm up with memories of the old.Which was your favourite Clan from STW?For me its currently Oda, but that stems lot more from its central position and many fronts that will create, rather then me liking the the Historical Oda Clan.

[AggonyDuck]

Takeda. There was just something so impressive in seeing hundreds of cavalry breaking the enemy on charge.

[Thermal]

Oda. Like the central position, rich lands and trouble with the rebellion, on Senjoku Jidai, its a real challenge to keep your lands.

[A Nerd]

Uesugi. I enjoyed the wealthy starting position, and the tactic involved to defeat a wealthy Hojo and oportunistic Imagawa. Also always loved to fight in Dewa!

[caravel]

Imagawa or Takeda, I find the rest of the clans relatively easy even on expert. With Imagawa and Takeda, the challenge is in holding both parts of your territories and joining them up. Oda would be my second choice.

[Kagemusha]

Imagawa or Takeda, I find the rest of the clans relatively easy even on expert. With Imagawa and Takeda, the challenge is in holding both parts of your territories and joining them up. Oda would be my second choice.

I always wondered how CA decided to place Imagawa lands on Kyushu in the original. I think it was maybe one of the most ahistorical things in STW. I can understand the Takeda lands in Aki from a longshot as Takeda clan of Aki were the Shugo of Aki province at the start of the century, but got mauled by Mori in the end. They were related to Takeda of Kai, but werent essentially the "same" Clan. While CA introduced the Aki Takeda as part of Kai Takeda. I wonder why they didnt add the Takeda of Wakasa into Takeda faction as they were also related to Takeda of Kai. To make things even more complicated, there were also Takeda in Kazusa, which was related to Kai Takeda, but was not part of it. They fought Satomi and Hojo and were ultimately destroyed by Satomi.

[NagatsukaShumi]

Mine was always the Uesugi, I can't really remember too many of my games now though but they were always my favourite. Ironically think I only ever completed Shoggy with Hojo and Shimazu.

[Tera]

One great thing about the TW series (not just Shogun) is different factions vary in difficutly inherently. I played basically all factions in Shogun - I'd say the hardest are Imagawa (split lands with no special units, at least Takeda has cavalry early on) and Shimazu (extremely poor lands). Easiest are definitely Hojo and Uesugi - wealthy and sheltered.

My favourite is Imagawa, not just because it's hard, but also because one of the generals (or was he a heir?) is Tokugawa Ieyasu - the REAL shogun :)

[Beskar]

Oda is cheap. Compared to the other clans, he traded with the west, so he had guns.

On the otherhand, Date Masamune is some one not to be underestimated. I would definitely support him.


What is a shame though, it is hundreds of years till the Shinsengumi. They had pretty much the best uniforms.

[ShadesWolf]

Shimazu all the way

[Monk]

Shimazu.

A relatively secure starting position in Kyushu meant that, once you dealt with the Imagawa in the north, you had your back to the wall to begin your march east. The major downside is you're starting dirt poor and building up your home provinces takes a lot of time.

[edyzmedieval]

Takeda. On Expert, that was a REAL challenge. And trying to take Shinano early on was something, without Hojo attacking you from behind or Uesugi using all of its armies.

[Gregoshi]

I like Uesugi, but have a very soft spot for Mori who I played in my very first campaign. Sure they have warrior monks but Mori was piss poor - quite a challenge. Guess that's why I like Uesugi now - rollin' in the koku!

[Gregoshi]

Er, not to nit pick, but the poll voting bars are not colour coordinated with the clan colours. :laugh4:

[Kagemusha]

Er, not to nit pick, but the poll voting bars are not colour coordinated with the clan colours. :laugh4:

~:mecry:

[Hosakawa Tito]

My favorite were the Mori and those Warrior Monks & No-dachi.

[kyushudan]

The Takeda. Of course to cav units are cheaper but I like the starting position. And it is very satisfying ejecting the Hōjō from the Kantō region.

[Kagemusha]

The Takeda. Of course to cav units are cheaper but I like the starting position. And it is very satisfying ejecting the Hōjō from the Kantō region.

Nice to see a new face of a STW player. Wellcome to the Org kyushudan!:bow:

[Swoosh So]

wolves

or the deadly shingens :p even tho only 2 of them :D

[andrewt]

Takeda. On Expert, that was a REAL challenge. And trying to take Shinano early on was something, without Hojo attacking you from behind or Uesugi using all of its armies.

I love that province. I remember it being connected to 9 other provinces.

[Tsar Alexsandr]

Imagawa lands in Kyushu were supposed to be due to a family relationship between the Ryzkoji (not sure on spelling) and the Imagawa clans. But... that's a different clan. XD Not Imagawa's. The Imagawa's were also related to the Hatekeyama and the Ashikaga I believe. But these clans were merely related, not working together. Maybe they just didn't want it to be too easy for Shimazu to take Kyushu.

[Tsar Alexsandr]

Also my favorite clan was Shimazu, cause I like swords, and the No-dachi bonus was a good incentive to play as them. XD

But the Takeda and Uesugi were favorites of mine as well. :D

[Kagemusha]

Imagawa lands in Kyushu were supposed to be due to a family relationship between the Ryzkoji (not sure on spelling) and the Imagawa clans. But... that's a different clan. XD Not Imagawa's. The Imagawa's were also related to the Hatekeyama and the Ashikaga I believe. But these clans were merely related, not working together. Maybe they just didn't want it to be too easy for Shimazu to take Kyushu.

So a similar case as the case with the Takeda of Kai and Takeda of Aki.Great post Tsar Aleksandr and wellcome to the Org and Dojo II!:bow:

[LittleGrizzly]

So a similar case as the case with the Takeda of Kai and Takeda of Aki.Great post Tsar Aleksandr and wellcome to the Org and Dojo II!:bow:

Shimazu!

great starting position (although crappy farmland) with some rebel terroritory, and Nods!


Although after I played multiplayer for a bit Oda was the only way you could really get a challenge, was a bit of a tightrope on expert even though i was infinitely better than the AI on the battlefield, so towards the end Oda was much more fun, though Shimazu will forever be my favourite....

[JAG]

Hojo all the way baby, because I was boring and just seemed to like them! :)

[Tsar Alexsandr]

You're welcome. :D Yeah I just ran into some information on the high ranked families of the day. Though not as powerful as some clans, some held high noble blood lines like Imagawa and his relation. Of course Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, and even Ieyasu Tokugawa showed hom much that really counts for... XD

Thanks. :D Dojo II is new to me, but I am the returned former Czar Alexsandr. XD I have now changed my title to a more authentic Russian one lol.

Shogun 2 is going to be great. I spent so much time playing the original Shogun, so many fond memories! And now getting to re-visit it, new and improved hopefully, this is going to be fun! :D

[Wishazu]

Imagawa all the way. They always provided me with the greatest challenge, being poor and seperated with no advantage in battlefield units. Also, I like the colour :)

btw, if anyone is interested in revisiting STW, take a look at the campaigns posted in the Sword Dojo.

[Martok]

The Hojo are still my favorite. I know they're probably too easy (their income potential is possibly even better than Uesugi's), but I love their position (being virtually surrounded by Takeda, Imagawa, and Uesugi) and the fact they could build their castles for cheaper. Also, defending Musashi against the Takeda cavalry hordes is always great fun. :2thumbsup:

[General Malaise]

I picked the Shimazu, partially for the reasons others stated (good, secure position yet still economically challenging) but mostly because their unit bonus was no-dachi and they were my favorite unit to use, not only because the sword-wielding samurai is the classic image of japanese warfare (albeit somewhat inaccurate) but because I enjoyed using infantry rush tactics. No-dachi weren't so great though on their own, compared to sohei especially, but the cost/upkeep bonus and the provinces with superior honor in producing them the Shimazu had made them quite worthwhile. Also because of that you could safely convert to Christianity earlier to get the jump on guns, whose morale-lowering effects worked well with shock infantry, as you didn't really need sohei so much (which also made your no-dachi more effective against monks, no longer being buddhist).

[ReluctantSamurai]

Oda....especially the 1580 campaign on Expert setting. Two-front war....battles hanging by a thread......Takeda and Imagawa wanting your head on your northern front.....Shimazu and Mori on your southern........

Plus I love the sound of gunfire rolling up the valley as the smoke drifts away on the wind........

[Gregoshi]

I tried Oda for the first time last year when I re-installed STW (and I think I'm going to have to do so again!). I got my head handed to me rather quickly. :laugh4:

[AnthoniusII]

Takeda. I was always fan of the "Mountain" Shingen and his wonderfull cavalry!

[frogbeastegg]

Shimazu. I enjoyed the starting position a lot, the balance between relatively secure borders and relative poverty. By the time I reached the mainlands the other clans had grown powerful and provided a lot of massive, important battles and solid opposition to my conquest.

[Tsar Alexsandr]

Shimazu. I enjoyed the starting position a lot, the balance between relatively secure borders and relative poverty. By the time I reached the mainlands the other clans had grown powerful and provided a lot of massive, important battles and solid opposition to my conquest.

Shimazu for you too? :D Yeah they had a great starting position. I always went after Shikoku after unifiying my little area of Kyushu. :D Before expelling Imagawa, (Not a hard task.) and the Mori. I liked the No-dachi bonus too.

[G. Septimus]

Uesugi. I dunno why, but I just llike it

[Vlad The Impaler]

I don't have a favourite clan; I finished the game with all of them many times;

[Thermal]

Shimazu are far to easy... ;)

[Tsar Alexsandr]

Too Easy! .... Maybe.... XD

But they're not the only ones that have a good start. :D

[The Black Ship]

Takeda... I always tried to have a Yari Cav unit in production when Takeda Shingen was due, although once he ended up generaling an Ashi unit.

[Wasp]

Uesugi. I like Kenshin a lot and good archers are always a plus.

[caravel]

Shimazu are far to easy... ;)
I agree. In fact I find Shimazu to be by far the easiest faction, despite their starting position in lands of low agricultural output. It's a simple matter of blitzing Imagawa and taking Chikuzen, Hizen and Chikugo which all have good farmland IIRC, then expanding on two fronts into Shikoku and Honshu - from then on it's a simple north easterly expansion with your "back to the wall". Converting to christanity is also a sound strategy for factions starting in the agriculturally poor Kyushu or south western Honshu as there is the additional trading post and church/cathedral income.

:bow:

[Gurkhal]

My favorites were Mori and Shimazu. But since I never got the hang of gundpowder weapons or understood the benefits of Christianity I left Shimazu for Mori, and lots of warrior monks.

As a funny side note I've only seen the AI convert to Christianity once, and that was the Mori Clan. To bad for them they didn't have any gunpowder unites when my Hojo came knocking.

[ReluctantSamurai]

But since I never got the hang of gundpowder weapons or understood the benefits of Christianity

The first part just takes practice. Set up custom battles on various maps and you'll get the hang of it.

The second part about the benefits takes more explanation. Each Portuguese trading post nets you 200 koku. This is on top of port trade. Build six churches and you get to build a cathedral in any province with a huge castle. Once the cathedral is complete, you make 200 koku for every church you own.

Now.....string five or six poor harvest years consecutive (I had seven on one occasion) and you begin to see the value of the koku generated by traders and the cathedral. It will save your butt during those lean years.

And this is not even getting into the battlefield value of muskets........................

[caravel]

Yes you can make a stupid amount of koku from Churches + Cathedral and the Portguese and Dutch trading posts combined. It more than makes up for the lack of monks. Tactics for gunpowder units differ of course. At first attempt they seem pretty poor, but once you get the hang of them they are an asset to a combined arms force. Like any missile unit they need supporting infantry (YS and/or YA), and good tactics/organisation to keep enemy cavalry/infantry at a safe distance.

[Gurkhal]

The problems I had with gunpowder unites was that one, they couldn't operate in most damp, and wet, weather. And that they didn't carry their guns loaded into the battle, which meant that when the enemy came into shooting range, they started to load their guns, which then took alot of time.

I hope however to be able to use guns more constructivly in the new Shogun game.

[ReluctantSamurai]

The problems I had with gunpowder unites was that one, they couldn't operate in most damp, and wet, weather.

This is, of course, a caveat for using guns. However, muskets (as opposed to the arquebus) can still fire in wet weather....just not as effectively. They still impose the morale penalty on the fired upon unit, though. And I never use musket exclusively for my missile unit, but always a combo with archers.


And that they didn't carry their guns loaded into the battle, which meant that when the enemy came into shooting range, they started to load their guns, which then took alot of time.

The antidote to this is to remove the fire-at-will from them. Since guns are a magnet for enemy cavalry, I devised a little trap for them. Guns in two lines instead of the usual three; loose formation, hold formation & hold position. I bait the enemy cav with a cav archer unit, gradually falling back towards my waiting guns. When the enemy cav unit gets within firing range, I wheel the cav archers through the muskets, who then close ranks. Now toggle the fire-at-will button and the guns fire as a unit, not just the front rank. At such close range, it's devastating. When the musket volley is over, the cav archers turn back and charge whatever is left standing. It takes precision timing but I've broken honor 5 and higher heavy cav with this tactic. Even if the enemy cav manages to get into your guns, your losses will be light and hey....guns are cheap....there's always more where they came from.......

[Gregoshi]

...and hey....guns are cheap....there's always more where they came from.......
You are one ruthless Daimyo! :laugh4: :bow:

[ReluctantSamurai]

You are one ruthless Daimyo!

I suppose that comes from playing too many Nobunaga campaign's:laugh4:

[O'Hea]

Back in the day I was a big Uesugi player (mostly because I was a fan of Uesugi Kenshin and they were easy to play), but I recently loaded the game back up and I'm really enjoying Shimazu. Christianizing and taking Tosa early on means high-honor guns and YA, plus cheap high-honor Nodachi from Satsuma. This gives you the most effective low-cost army in Japan, and lets you put more money towards infrastructure.

[frogbeastegg]

Heh. It's funny to see how many shimazu players took the guns and God route. I tried it once and found it not to my taste. I used to have terrible luck with the weather - it's like the computer was set to make it rain if I had 2 or more gun units.

Guns were awesome when the weather did stay fine though. 3 units of muskets could do nasty things to a charging enemy line.

Thinking back, hojo were the clan I wanted to like most. Rich to start out, positioned right next to more rich lands, easy to make into a short bordered, safe realm by a little bit of conquest, a nice purple colour ... I never completed any of the games I started with them. I always got bored quite early on.

[Martok]

H
Thinking back, hojo were the clan I wanted to like most. Rich to start out, positioned right next to more rich lands, easy to make into a short bordered, safe realm by a little bit of conquest, a nice purple colour ...
Don't forget about being able to purchase/upgrade castles for cheap! :beam:




I never completed any of the games I started with them. I always got bored quite early on.
That is one drawback of the Hojo: Once you've eliminated the Uesugi, conquered Takeda's lands in the east, and occupied/fortified Shinano to the point where you can expect to hold onto it, the campaign does tend to be a little too easy after that. (Likewise with the Uesugi, once they've done all those things and destroyed the Hojo.)

Still, in my experience, the Hojo early game is both very tense and (therefore) highly enjoyable, more so than most of the other clans. It's in the late game where they tend to fall down, as they're usually something of a juggernaut by then.

[Galvanized Iron]

Sith-clan of course, what a strange question.

[Basileus]

My vote goes for Takeda cause they where the ones i played the most, i did enjoy the Mori as well though.

[Yesugey]

Chokosabe! :stwshame:

[Gregoshi]

A question for the panel: why are Hojo and Imagawa so unpopular? I can guess Hojo is considered too easy, but that doesn't seem to be an issue with the Shimazu. As for Imagawa, they are in a similar situation as Takeda, so does the famed Takeda cavalry make all the difference?

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I always loved Imagawa. Hojo was a cool faction imo back in STW1.

[Seyavash]

Uesugi, I just loved the epic battles for shinano, plus I had a soft spot due to having watched Ten to Chi.

Mori was second just cause I love the red unis

[Yesugey]

A question for the panel: why are Hojo and Imagawa so unpopular? I can guess Hojo is considered too easy, but that doesn't seem to be an issue with the Shimazu. As for Imagawa, they are in a similar situation as Takeda, so does the famed Takeda cavalry make all the difference?

I tell you why: They have no characteristic unit, which gives its character to the clan. For Takeda its cavalry, so when you play Takeda, you train cavalry. for Shimazu its No-Dachi, for Mori its Shoei, et cetera...

But Hojo has castles, which is not makes a difference after few years, and Imagawa has Ninjas which is uneffective against important generals.

[Tsar Alexsandr]

Hojo's bonus on castles, was not interesting. Also they were purple. (Just saying.) And the Imagawa had the bonus on ninja, and the Imagawa name. No one want to become associated with Yoshimoto Imagawa... XD

Perhaps it had to do with their starting position's too? With Imagawa's random provinces, and Hojo's stable, but boring hold over Kanto, it just didn't pick up as being as popular as the other clans I guess. : /

Granted the Imagawa are a mix of Imagawa and Tokugawa, as it was a easy for the games makers. The Imagawa represent the Ryzkoji clan in Kyushu, and Tokugawa in Mikawa, as well as Imagawa itself as Suruga and Totomi.

In real life the Hojo had quite the interesting history as well. Ujiyasu Hojo was well able to hold off both Shingen Takeda and Kenshin Uesugi. Even winning back some Hojo castles that had fallen to Shingen.

I learned all this after I started playing though. So when I was still playing, nothing really drew my attention to either Hojo or Imagawa. : / That's just me personally of course. I'd love to play as more clans than I did now, looking back.

[Gregoshi]

I'm tempted to start a Hojo campaign just because they are so neglected. Same with the Imagawa...but the split territory is a mentally heavy cross to bare to start off.

I'm not sure if the clan game bonuses ever influenced my decision, but related image of the clan did. The cavalry reputation was an interesting incentive to play Takeda, but the game play bonus of Takeda with cavalry wasn't. Same with Mori & monks. I just play a Mori campaign and conquered half of Japan without rolling out one monk unit (though I was working on it at the time). The Shimazu/nodachi connection never interested me which was odd because green is my favourite colour. The relative safety of the Shimazu starting position made me uninterested in them, while the terrible starting position of the Mori and their poor lands fascinated me. The starting position of the Oda kind of terrified me and that was reinforced by having my tail kicked badly in a couple of attempts at an Oda campaign. From the poll Uesugi is popular too, but I just don't see archers as being the attraction. Is it the fairly rich (2nd richest) starting position, decent protected flanks but the danger of rich Hojo, Takeda cavalry, bloody Shinano the attraction for Uesugi? I think that was it for me - Uesugi have a good starting position geographically and financially but dangerous neighbors.

[Tsar Alexsandr]

Best of luck to you if you do. :D

Who knows. Maybe the Hojo will make for a really interesting game?

The unit bonuses are nice, but since you can build everything anyhow.... you're really just picking a starting position and a color. :D

I like Shimazu's no-dachi bonus. But I actually built a ton of cavalry too. :D So... you know. You gotta build whatever you need, not just what you get bonuses for.

[Kagemusha]

When playing Hojo. I tend to restrict myself a bit for more interesting game. I usually play so that i only go to war with clans that declare war to me and only be offensive against rebel provinces.This limits getting big too fast a bit.

[Shigemasa Oyamada]

Shogun Total War is the only Total War I haven't played, but the Late Sengoku period being one of my favorite periods in history I'd probably go for the Hojo.... Nobody ever expects the Hojo.....

[ReluctantSamurai]

Nobody ever expects the Hojo

In STW v1.12, if you are playing as anyone besides the Hojo.......you will........[nightmares about the Hojo Horde dance in the air]:sweatdrop:

[Shigemasa Oyamada]

Well, a friend is digging up a dusty copy of the game, so I will have my official verdict soon.... but I will play first as the Hojo :grin3:

[Shigemasa Oyamada]

Oh and I forgot to mention that if all the factions mentioned above are the only playable factions then they should include more like the Miyoshi, Satake, Asakura and the Azai.

[Kagemusha]

Oh and I forgot to mention that if all the factions mentioned above are the only playable factions then they should include more like the Miyoshi, Satake, Asakura and the Azai.

I also hope there will be more playable factions for this one and also wellcome to the Org Llewelyn!:bow:

[andrewt]

Yeah, the Hojo Horde is extremely easy. Shimazu has a good starting position but it doesn't get boring as fast as Hojo does.

IIRC, Hojo has one of the richest, if not the richest, starting position. They also only have 3 border provinces. I recall the rest being totally safe from invasion so you could move troops into the border provinces immediately. One of the border provinces, Musashi, has a river which makes defending it really easy. You can hold off larger numbers of Takeda forces using the river and Takeda is not as rich as you are.

From there, it's pretty simple to just attack Uesugi, who has the second richest lands in the game. I believe the easternmost province you can attack from the start blocks access to one of your border provinces so it doesn't add another province you have to defend. Not to mention the eastern Uesugi provinces are his richer and more defensible ones.

[Suraknar]

Mori has always been my favorite, and of course the Buddhist Monk units.

This meant that I had to wait a bit before I could get gunpowder units from the dutch instead of the Portuguese but it was hell of fun to establish a very powerful position filled with Buddhist temples.

[AggonyGrudge]

Budist Monks! = WiN But I prefer Uesugi.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Imagawa, but wish they also had Yamana to!