The Big New Yorker- [TBNY] concept thread

[Askthepizzaguy]

https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/Big%20New%20Yorker/new_york_skyline3.jpg



The Big New Yorker

Huge Mafia Game

aiming for 100 players




https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/Big%20New%20Yorker/BigNewYorker.png


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Interested Parties: (22/100)

ArpeggiateTHIS
Azathoth
Beefy187
Beskar
Captain Blackadder
Diamondeye
Diana Abnoba
Double A
God Emperor
johnhughthom
Khazaar
Methos
Pinman
Renata
remake20
Seon
splitpersonality
Skooma Addict
Subotan
wideyedwanderer
YLC
Zack






Introduction:

I've finally decided to do a huge mafia game. There isn't room on the calendar for such a game this year, so I'm aiming for 2011 for this game. Obviously there will be some Capo IV fatigue, so I plan on having a bit of a break between Capo IV and this game.

For this game, I will not be hosting any other games on this or any other website.
During this game, I will not accept invitations to join games. Hosting this will be my entire experience until the number of living players drops to 40.
This will probably be a one-time only deal... like Resident Evil: Dark Falls, I will put a lot into making this game special, but it may only happen once.


I am encouraged by the successes I've had hosting RE: Dark Falls, Murder Manor III, and Star Fox: Lylat Wars. If the Star Wars: Fall of the Order game goes well, then I believe I will have proved to myself I have the skills necessary to do a huge game, which has only ever really been done by one or two or very few other hosts, if I am not mistaken. I don't take this lightly.Inspirations:

Seeing Capo di tutti Capo IV as a possible event happening at the end of this year or early next year made me think back to the fun I had during Capo III. I've never had an idea that I thought would compare to Capo, and none that would warrant a large number of players. Well, a number of influences have got me thinking about how to make a game that is nearly as fun as Capo was, but still unique enough to call it my own.

Another game which inspired me was YLC's Blood, Money, and Power. I sat down and was a small part of the design process there, and I see the potential. I especially like the idea of heists and theft, and hiring people to work for you by contract.

Civilization Fanatics Center's Night of the Werewolf series of games have a style all their own. I've borrowed elements from NOTW to enhance Lylat Wars, for example. I believe I could use a couple of game concepts from NOTW and apply them here, specifically "support votes", items, income, personal goals, strength, and so forth.

The general idea of giving everyone something to do.... everyone having a pathway to power. Such as what I did with Resident Evil: Dark Falls. Everyone had the ability to develop their character, or build it right from the start to become talented in one or two areas. Also, they could choose their own direction, who they trusted, and if they wanted to kill their own teammates or not. Even basic townies didn't necessarily have to be basic.... or goody-goody. They could turn evil.

The more complex serial killer roles from Capo III and the Demon from Murder Manor III has lead me to construct some pretty badass serial killer roles. If there is one game that could use a really evil serial killer, it is this game.

I've also drawn on my experience hosting dozens and dozens of games and playing, I believe, at least 75+ games in the past 2 years alone. I know what works and what doesn't.Challenges:

Can I recruit 100 people, or nearly that many?
I believe so. I've gotten 60 players easily for Resident Evil, and with the number of people on my friends list and the contacts I have at CFC and TWC, I believe I can push this one past 80 players easily. I also hope, hope, hope if there is one game you play, it is this game. So I will be accepting all kinds of people into the game. That means lots of lurkers, which means lots of places for the mafia to hide. :beam:

Will this be a different experience from the Capo series?
Unfortunately, in order for this game to be interesting to the individual player, in a game this size, people have to have something to do besides vote with their lousy 1 vote even if they are a basic townie. Which means, a Capo-like system of advancement or actions or a NOTW-like system of money, items, and personal goals. I believe you will find some similarities to the Capo series in terms of game mechanics. But, since GH and CR have been able to pull off similar mechanics, I know that it isn't a total ripoff, especially if I design it from the ground up using my own vision. I will need to make it my own and distance it from Capo IV on the calendar, but otherwise I think I can make it a very unique experience.

Can I handle game balancing for a game of this magnitude?
Yes. I already know what the challenges are, where the cheap moves are, and how to work around them. Thankfully I know what to do here. It won't be a broken game even if one family gets an early lead, or if the families get wiped out quickly.

Can I handle the writeups?
Easier than Resident Evil: Dark Falls. So yeah.

Keeping track of dozens and dozens of player's actions and sending out results?
This will be easier than Resident Evil: Dark Falls in all areas except quantity of results. But since each result is a blurb, that's easy enough... will be the hardest part of the game once it gets going, but I know I can handle it.

Will I finish the game?
Haven't left one unfinished yet. If I did REDF I can do this one.

Real life happens....
I know, but with 48 hour days and 48 hour nights, I will have enough time. I might need to give myself an extra day in between phases to break and send out results. People can use that time for voting if they want, I suppose.

Won't this game take forever? Especially with reviver roles?
Hey, are you peeking ahead? Yes, this game will take a while. But if you recall, nobody died during the first few phases of Resident Evil: Dark Falls. This game is designed to not necessarily require everyone to be dead for the game to be over. The game could be over with 40 people left alive. There are also roles that can cause people to die and not get revived. (If you lose your head, you can't get that fixed in the hospital...) Revivers are also not 100% effective, and you cannot revive someone who has been dead for longer than 1 day/night cycle. After that, they kind of.... rot.

:oops:

When the mafia families get big enough, they will be able to murder several people per round. Then the game will speed up. There will also be vigilantes running around killing people. I anticipate I can do 7 phases or more inside of a month, and the game shouldn't take longer than 20-30 phases. Less time than my Resident Evil: Dark Falls game.

Player fatigue! Hey, don't make it too big and complicated, man! I have a real life I have to live!
The game will be quite simple. You don't have to organize massive town networks, you don't have to organize anyone if you don't want to. You can go out on your own and do your own thing. You can even just focus on voting and staying alive if you wish. It's not like you necessarily HAVE to put a lot into this game. Maybe you do a little bit of group work at the beginning to choose a career, and then you spend the rest of the game just doing that one task over and over again and hoping for success... and then voting however way you please.

It's quite easy to become a vigilante and just kill people if you want to. Eventually you can become so good that you become quite the fearsome force. Someone will catch wind of your work and end your life, but hey, at least you got to kill things. Play this game as you like. You could also decide to become a politician, and try to get people to bribe you for your vote. :evil: So seriously, you can find ways to have fun even without massive networking ability.

This game should be more fatigue for the game host than the players, as usual. Don't worry about that. And if you do go inactive, people will probably use you as cover to hide from investigation, or steal from you. So I honestly don't care if you go inactive. :laugh4:

There will be NO WOGS this game. You want inactive people gone? Vote for them or vigilante kill them. Or just pretend they don't exist, at your peril.... :evil:Game Setup:

I will obviously adjust this to fit the actual scale of the game. If I had my dream game, and I had all 100 slots filled, then the game setup will be as follows:

8 mafia Dons
-This is the head of the mafia family. When this person dies, if there were 3 or fewer mafiosi under his employ, that family is no more. His former workers become unaffiliated mafia (neutral). If there are 4 or more people under his employ, they vote for a new Don and continue.

60 corruptible roles
-These are the various townspeople who would be willing to work for a mafia family, but until they do, they will be trying to destroy all the mafia, or just earn some cash. There may also be special roles here.

30 incorruptible roles
-These are the various townspeople who would never consider working for a mafia family, and will stop at nothing to destroy the mafia. There may also be special roles here.

2 serial killers
-Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.Game Roles:











Townsperson



Once you reach level 1 in any category, you do not need to work in groups anymore.








Investigator path: (Lawful)

working with 3 people, perform 4 investigations (level 1), successfully investigate a mafioso (level 2) and successfully investigate another mafioso (level 3)

- Level 1 [Gumshoe] 50% chance of successful investigation, cannot see through inconclusive.
- Level 2 [Private Eye] 75% chance of successful investigation, can see through inconclusive with a second scan.
- Level 3 [Forensic Investigator] 100% chance of successful investigation, can see through inconclusive.

Medic path: (Lawful)

working with 4 people, successfully revive 2 people (level 1), successfully revive 1 more person (level 2) and successfully revive 2 more people. (level 3)

- Level 1 [Nurse] 25% chance of reviving a person
- Level 2 [Doctor] 50% chance of reviving a person
- Level 3 [Surgeon] 75% chance of reviving a person

Legal path: (Lawful)

Working with 3 people, successfully save someone from the lynch (level 1), successfully save 2 others from a lynch (level 2), and successfully save two more people from a lynch.

- Level 1 [Public defender] 25% chance of saving someone from a lynch, or protecting someone from investigation.
- Level 2 [Defense attorney/prosecutor] 50% chance of saving someone from a lynch, or protecting someone from investigation.
- Level 3 [District attorney/Judge] 75% chance of saving someone from a lynch, or protecting someone from investigation.

Politician path: (Neutral)

Under construction. You will need to gain enough votes for Governor or Senator, or have had to have been Governor or Senator, but I haven't fully designed this system yet.

- Level 1 [City Councilor] Gains the ability to do support votes
- Level 2 [State Senator] Has two support votes
- Level 3 [Congressman] Has two support votes, or two lynch votes

Governor- (incumbent) can stop a lynch, double lynch, or choose between lynches. Also chooses lynch method.
Senator- (incumbent) has three votes.

Roleblocker path: (Criminal)

Working with 4 others, you must successfully block someone 3 times (level 1) then successfully block someone 3 more times (level 2) and then 3 more times (level 3).

- Level 1 [Sergeant/Singer] 50% chance of blocking someone.
- Level 2 [Lieutenant/Dancer] 75% chance of blocking someone.
- Level 3 [Captain/Prostitute] 100% chance of blocking someone.

Defender path: (Criminal)

Working with 3 others, you must successfully defend someone 4 times (level 1), then successfully defend against a mafia attack (level 2) and again successfully defend against mafia attack (level 3).

- Level 1 [Watchman] 50% chance of defending someone
- Level 2 [Security Guard] 75% chance of defending someone
- Level 3 [Personal Bodyguard] 100% chance of defending someone

Vigilante path: (Criminal)

Working with 4 others, you must successfully kill someone 3 times (level 1), then successfully kill someone two more times (level 2) and then successfully kill someone three more times (level 3).

- Level 1 [Vigilante] 50% chance of killing someone
- Level 2 [Hitman] 75% chance of killing someone
- Level 3 [Assassin] 100% chance of killing someone

Criminal path: (Criminal)

Working with 4 others, you must successfully execute a criminal action 2 times. (Level 1) Then 2 more times (level 2) and then 2 more times (level 3).

- Level 1 [Crook] 50% chance of success doing a criminal action (theft, dealing, murder)
- Level 2 [Thug] 75% chance of success doing a criminal action (theft, dealing, murder)
- Level 3 [Gangster] 100% chance of success doing a criminal action (theft, dealing, murder)















Gangster










Don- (management) +$1,500 per day
Luca- (muscle work, management, legal work) -$1,000 per day
Made- (dealing, grunt work, theft) -$500 per day
Wiseguy- (muscle work, grunt work, theft) -$200 per day


-Dealing (drugs, gambling, firearms, prostitution, tobacco, alcohol) Generates Income
-Theft (steal from person, steal from business) Generates Income
-Grunt work (murder)
-Muscle work (protection)
-Management (recruitment [Don] and investigation.)
-Legal work (defend from investigation)

Recruitment:

Criminal: Can be recruited by consent for free, or against their will for a one-time charge of double their daily income.
Neutral: Can be recruited by consent for a one-time charge of triple their daily income, or against their will for a one-time charge of 10 times their daily income.
Lawful: Can be recruited by consent for a one-time charge of 10 times their daily income, but not against their will unless with a special item or ability.
Incorruptible: Cannot be recruited by any means.

















F.B.I.- Federal Bureau of Investigation









Wiretapping
- Level 1 [Special Agent]- (classified)
- Level 2 [Division Chief]- (classified)
- Level 3 [Deputy Director]- (classified)

Investigation
- Level 1 [Special Agent]- (classified)
- Level 2 [Division Chief]- (classified)
- Level 3 [Deputy Director]- (classified)

Undercover
- Level 1 [Special Agent]- (classified)
- Level 2 [Division Chief]- (classified)
- Level 3 [Deputy Director]- (classified)














Serial Killers










Serial Killer
- Level 1 [Killer]- 75% chance of successful murder. (kill 2 for next rank)
- Level 2 [Murderer]- 90% chance of successful murder. (kill 2 for next rank)
- Level 3 [Slayer]- 100% chance of successful murder. (kill 2 for next rank)
- Level 4 - 150% chance of successful murder. (kill through protection, kill 2 for next rank)
- Level 5 [Ripper]- 200% chance of successful murder (kill through protection), or 100% chance of killing twice.














[B]Special Roles








These are specialists and can perform unusual tasks in addition to their regular townie or criminal duties. I won't be revealing those here.Game Mechanics:

Money/Income


Everyone makes money. Some earn more than others, depending on their chosen career path. Certain actions also earn money. You want to become rich, that boosts your score. You can also bribe people to do things, if you have money. Mafia need money to pay their gangsters. Without money, mafioso become disloyal and can be recruited by another family. If they don't get paid enough times, they might just decide to whack their own Don....

Become the richest person of your alignment to boost your score at the end of the game.


Personal Goals


Some things you want to do before you die. Accomplish these goals to greatly boost your score. Example:
Vendetta: The Dons of the Tataglia and Corleone families must die. or
Jack of all trades: Become skilled at at least 3 different occupations. (I'll try to think of better ones than this... :sweatdrop:


Items


These items can boost your strength, or assist in certain actions, such as robberies, defense, assassination, or deflecting assassinations on yourself. They can be sold at auction or to anyone you wish, or given away. Some are just worth money.

Example:
Silenced beretta: Adds +1 strength and adds 10% chance of success when performing a murder.


Strength


If you fail an action in a dangerous situation (trying to roleblock a mafioso, trying to steal from a guarded person or business, trying to murder, trying to defend someone, etc) you can lose strength. If you lose all of your strength, you can die. If you are low on strength, you might consider a less dangerous line of work.

Example:
Strength 3


Scoring

Using a points system similar to the one I used for Resident Evil: Dark Falls, your score will be weighted as follows:

1. Team victory/Individual Victory (50% of total possible points here)
2. Rounds of survival (10% of possible points here)
3. Rounds voted (5% of possible points here)
4. Rounds with night actions sent in (5% of possible points here)
5. Total money made during game (10% of possible points here)
6. Personal Goals completed (10% of possible points here)
7. Bonus points achieved (10% of possible points here)
Last Don Standing- Bonus points
Wealthiest Mafioso- Bonus points
Wealthiest Criminal- Bonus points
Wealthiest Neutral- Bonus points
Wealthiest Townie- Bonus points
Wealthiest Incorruptible- Bonus pointsCorporations:

If there's 100 players, there will be 10 starting corporations.






Magna Media Enterprises- Advertisement, News, Television, Radio
Useful Utilities Company- Power, Water, Gas, Telecommunications
Friendly Financial Corporation- Banking, Insurance, Loans, Investments
Creative Construction Services- Construction, Demolition, Land clearance
Core Computers Limited- Computer hardware/software manufacturing and sales
Regal Retail Management- Retail sales, management, and product distribution
Evening Entertainment Incorporated- Bars, restaurants, nightclubs, theaters
Realistic Real Estate, LLC- Real estate sales, rental and lease properties
Serene Security Incorporated- Home and business surveillance, alarms, security systems, personnel
Authoritative Automotive Company- Automotive manufacturing, sales, and distribution


If there's 100 players, there will be 10 starting players per corporation. Each player will be ranked randomly. People can switch corporate affiliations, and therefore some companies might have more than 10 employees. Next to each rank is how much their salary or income is.Day Jobs:





Owner- $500 per day salary, plus $100 per day per employee (cannot leave company)
Chief Executive Officer- $1000 per day salary
Chief Financial Officer- $900 per day salary
Chief Operations Officer- $800 per day salary
Chief Human Resources Officer- $700 per day salary
Vice President of management- $600 per day salary
General Manager- $500 per day salary
Manager- $400 per day salary
Assistant Manager- $300 per day salary
Supervisor- $200 per day salary
Foreman- $150 per day salary
Lead personnel- $100 per day salary
Senior personnel- $75 per day salary
Personnel- $50 per day salary
Intern- $0 per day salary


When someone leaves the company voluntarily or dies:

Everyone underneath that person is promoted by one rank, or until all ranks in between are filled. Killing your superiors might be one way of advancing up the corporate ladder.


"Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream?"
-Homer Simpson



Recruitment and employment:

Any member of any corporation can attempt to hire more people for their corporation. All they have to do is offer that person a position. The hired person will immediately become the lowest-ranked member of the corporation, if they agree to switch corporate affiliation. The owner of the corporation will wish to remove the number of employees from rival corporations and add to his own, because that means larger personal profits for himself.

People can request to not be invited to any new corporations if they wish (for OOC reasons, perhaps.... less private messages clogging up their inbox, or any other reason)

People who are making a low salary in a large corporation might wish to join a smaller corporation to move higher up the corporate ladder. If they are going for a money or corporate based victory, or have a personal goal involving such a move, they might wish to resign from one company and be hired by another. Smaller corporations therefore have an advantage when hiring people, but their owners make less money. Larger corporations will be worth more when stealing from them, but can afford to hire more security. They might also decide to offer sign-on bonuses to new hires, which might make them more interested to join, even if it means a lower wage.

No one can fire employees of a corporation... (technically)

For story purposes, let's suggest the employees and management are unionized, and the firing process is too complicated and takes years to accomplish. Of course, they could be "fired" by the grim reaper.... being dead means you don't collect a paycheck anymore. :wink:

Players can actively seek better opportunities elsewhere...

By posting their desire for new employment publicly. When contacted by another corporation interested in hiring them, they can list their qualifications (such as experience doing nighttime abilities, or their ability to manipulate the tally, or their ability to appeal a lynch or block a lynch, etc). A player's powers come in handy and if they wish to offer such powers to a corporation, they might be able to negotiate a higher sign-on bonus. All sign-on bonuses must be approved by the Owner of the corporation, since it comes out of his personal finances, unless employees of the corporation got together and pooled some of their own personal cash to create a sign-on bonus. New hires are under no obligation to remain loyal to this corporation... they could accept the sign-on bonus and then quit the company the next day. Obviously such dishonest behavior might be met with reprisals... such as being murdered. A corporation might demand loyalty for x number of rounds, or for the rest of the game, in exchange for such sign-on bonuses. Again the employee is under no real obligation to comply, except under threat of death, perhaps.



Forming your own corporation:

So, you feel unappreciated by the corporate establishment? Can't find an awesome job in another company? Well.... ambitious ones might decide to form their own corporation!

Ah, but it's not as easy as snapping your fingers together. There are some prerequisites.





1. You must quit your former career and thus become unemployed.
2. You must convince 4 other players to quit their former career and join your upstart corporation.
3. The 5 of you must send me a message declaring your intentions to form a corporation, telling me who is the owner and who are the employees, in what rank.
4. Starting a business isn't cheap. It will cost $5,000 to form your own corporation. You can pool your money together to pay this start-up cost, or the new Owner can bear the full burden if he wishes. The rule is, you cannot spend more money than you have.

Note: Once you form your own corporation, or you are an owner of a corporation, you CANNOT change corporate alignment.

Night Jobs

Your corporate salary and affiliation relates to your "Day job". You get money every day for your corporate Day Job.

At night (or during the day, if applicable) you moonlight and do a "Night Job". What you earn that night depends on your actions and your experience level.







Unskilled (Vanilla) Townsperson- $100 per action.



Gumshoe: $150 per action
Private Eye: $200 per action
Forensic Investigator: $400 per action



Nurse: $150 per action
Doctor: $300 per action
Surgeon: $500 per action



Public defender: $150 per action
Defense attorney/prosecution attorney: $400 per action
District attorney/Judge: $750 per action



City Councilor: $50 per action
State Senator: $200 per action
Congressman: $500 per action
Governor: $1000 per action
Senator: $800 per action



Police Sergeant/Lounge singer: $150 per action
Police Lieutentant/Exotic dancer: $250 per action
Police Captain/Prostitute: $500 per action



Watchman: $100 per action
Security guard: $200 per action
Personal bodyguard: $300 per action



Vigilante: $0 per action
Hitman: $0 per action
Assassin: $0 per action



Crook: $0 per action
Thug: $0 per action
Gangster: $0 per action

Don: $1500 per day (minus expenses for hired goons)
Luca: $1000 per day
Made: $500 per day
Wiseguy: $200 per day

F.B.I Level 1- $100 per day
F.B.I Level 2- $200 per day
F.B.I Level 3- $300 per day

Serial Killer Level 1- $50 per day
Serial Killer Level 2- $75 per day
Serial Killer Level 3- $100 per day
Serial Killer Level 4- $200 per day
Serial Killer Level 5- $500 per day

Special Roles- Salary not revealed
Team Victory Conditions:

Mafia Victory: One family must become 50% or more of the remaining population of New York (Total Mafia victory)

Mafia Alliance Victory: Less than 20 players remaining, Other Dons agree to a peace with the largest mafia family (lesser mafia victory, ranked by power and wealth)

Neutral Victory: All Dons are destroyed and neutral players are the largest remaining faction, and there are no more incorruptible townies remaining. (Total Neutral victory)

Neutral Alliance Victory: Neutrals agree to a peace with the largest mafia family (lesser mafia victory/neutral victory, ranked by power and wealth)

Town Victory: All mafia Dons and Serial Killers are destroyed. (Town victory, score based on how many actual townies, incorruptible townies, and neutrals remain)

F.B.I. Victory: All true mafiosi and other criminals are eliminated, F.B.I faction still exists. (Total FBI victory)

Serial Killer Victory: Serial Killers remain alive at the end of the game. (Serial Killer victory)

Draw by majority agreement: All Serial Killers and FBI are eliminated, less than 10 players remaining, remaining criminals, neutrals, mafiosi, and townies agree to a draw by majority vote. (Draw, ranked by power and wealth)

Corporate Victory: All Serial Killers and FBI are eliminated, less than 10 players remaining, All remaining players belong to a single corporation and agree to a town/mafia draw by unanimous agreement. (Therefore, only one Owner remaining)

Note: Owners of corporations cannot change corporate alignment.Neutral Alignment:

Mafia Gangsters who have lost their Dons and could not form their own family will become Neutral aligned.
Corruptible townies who go down the "criminal" career path and remain that way become Neutral aligned.
Corruptible townies who go down the "politician" career path and remain that way become Neutral aligned.
Incorruptible townies cannot become Neutral aligned.
This might be a viable route to victory if there is an intense mafia war in the endgame and not enough townies to win via town victory.
This is a viable route to victory for former Mafia gangsters who think they have a better chance siding with the town/neutrals than rejoining a mafia family.
Going neutral might assist in your personal quest for wealth or a Corporate victory, since neutrals are less of a threat to the town and the mafia, and can be easily bribed...Individual Victory conditions:


This means you share the victory with whichever team won the game. You must complete all your personal objectives and survive (if necessary).
You are also ranked by total points, so your team can lose and you can fail your personal objectives and die, and still rank very high.









This post is not finished. I will return to post more, but I need a break.

[johnhughthom]

You mention support votes, I've seen them mentioned in the rules of games at CFC but can't remember ever seeing them used never mind actively influence a voting result. How would they work in this?

[Diamondeye]

Me and Seon would like to claim the SK roles

Sounds interesting!

[Subotan]

*Takes off Chinese Communist hat and puts on his Yankees cap*

Yes.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You mention support votes, I've seen them mentioned in the rules of games at CFC but can't remember ever seeing them used never mind actively influence a voting result. How would they work in this?

Support votes:

These are like negative votes. They are often used to spare someone from a lynch at the last moment when they are forced to reveal they are a special role (like an investigator or doctor or something). A few people switch their lynch votes to support votes, and all of a sudden the tally against a person has dropped by six. That can very much influence the vote.

It could be used by unscrupulous (read: all) politicians to save certain mafiosi from death... for a price of course. Everything costs money, especially votes. :evil:


Support votes are in green and counter lynch votes.

Example:


Johnhughthom: (2) Askthepizzaguy, Diamondeye.

Unvote: Johnhughthom, Support Johnhughthom.


Johnhughthom: (0) Askthepizzaguy, Diamondeye.

See? Went from 2 votes to zero based on just my support. Worth a penny or two?

[Double A]

Pizza, you had me at the pizza.

[Zack]

You mention support votes, I've seen them mentioned in the rules of games at CFC but can't remember ever seeing them used never mind actively influence a voting result. How would they work in this?
The reason people never use support votes is because it's usually better to just vote for someone else instead of supporting (for various reasons).

[Pinman]

This just looks incredible.

[Double A]

The reason people never use support votes is because it's usually better to just vote for someone else instead of supporting (for various reasons).

Unless there isn't a clear second?

[Captain Blackadder]

In though I must say that pizza looks horrible soo cheesy

[Double A]

CB, it doesn't matter what a pizza looks like as long as it tastes good.

However, pineapple and ham have been known to make a pizza look tastier...

[Askthepizzaguy]

This just looks incredible.

What about the game? Stop ogling the pizza, man! There's a game underneath that! :clown:


I know it is incredibly delicious, but you must resist. The pizza is a lie.

[Double A]

I wish all lies tasted that good.

[Khazaar]

I enjoyed the NYC pizza, delicious... mhmmmhm. The only worry I have is that all these options are going to make it hard to focus on scumhunting, but this looks rather like Capo upgraded anyways. Maybe the focus is not town vs. maifa but rather who becomes Capo di tutti Capi.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I enjoyed the NYC pizza, delicious... mhmmmhm. The only worry I have is that all these options are going to make it hard to focus on scumhunting, but this looks rather like Capo upgraded anyways. Maybe the focus is not town vs. maifa but rather who becomes Capo di tutti Capi.

Well not everyone will need to focus on scumhunting.


I haven't fully explained the game yet but much of it will be, for many players, working towards building your scum family and forming alliances to achieve power and wealth. The mafia families may not all want to destroy each other immediately, perhaps their first goal is grabbing up as many players as they can and building a thriving business, and then trying to protect those interests with the usual mafia muscle.

Secondly, there will be townspeople who can do down a rather neutral path, focusing on gaining political power and gaining votes, and then selling those votes to the mafia or to dedicated townies seeking justice. Such townies may have mafia contacts and, for a price, would be willing to look the other way. Sure, this means hardcore townies won't like them very much, but it's unlikely to be a move done by a mafia Don himself, so such politicians are not necessarily the first target for vigilantes and so forth. Or maybe they are, and the mafia would be willing to protect them from harm. You see, there's a lot of backscratching between organized crime, business, and politics.

Thirdly, people who have chosen to be dedicated scumhunters will likely be forming vigilante squads and detective groups and some protection on investigators. So those people will be more focused on scumhunting than anyone else. Maybe they can get the job done.

The focus is still on town versus mafia, but there's also a focus on personal achievement, personal power, personal wealth, and the power and influence of your team or mafia family. What might be more pressing is the threat the serial killers pose. You might even see some town and mafia cooperation on that point. I can't predict what will happen.

When I go into the business aspect of the game, and the political aspect of the game, and the money aspect of the game, alternative objectives become clearer for the town and mafia. I'll talk about that soon.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Corporations, Day and Night Jobs, and victory conditions: (Still in design phase)



Ok here's what I have for ideas so far.

Corporations:

If there's 100 players, there will be 10 starting corporations.






Magna Media Enterprises- Advertisement, News, Television, Radio
Useful Utilities Company- Power, Water, Gas, Telecommunications
Friendly Financial Corporation- Banking, Insurance, Loans, Investments
Creative Construction Services- Construction, Demolition, Land clearance
Core Computers Limited- Computer hardware/software manufacturing and sales
Regal Retail Management- Retail sales, management, and product distribution
Evening Entertainment Incorporated- Bars, restaurants, nightclubs, theaters
Realistic Real Estate, LLC- Real estate sales, rental and lease properties
Serene Security Incorporated- Home and business surveillance, alarms, security systems, personnel
Authoritative Automotive Company- Automotive manufacturing, sales, and distribution


If there's 100 players, there will be 10 starting players per corporation. Each player will be ranked randomly. People can switch corporate affiliations, and therefore some companies might have more than 10 employees. Next to each rank is how much their salary or income is.





Day Jobs:


https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/Big%20New%20Yorker/Day-400.png






Owner- $500 per day salary, plus $100 per day per employee (cannot leave company)
Chief Executive Officer- $1000 per day salary
Chief Financial Officer- $900 per day salary
Chief Operations Officer- $800 per day salary
Chief Human Resources Officer- $700 per day salary
Vice President of management- $600 per day salary
General Manager- $500 per day salary
Manager- $400 per day salary
Assistant Manager- $300 per day salary
Supervisor- $200 per day salary
Foreman- $150 per day salary
Lead personnel- $100 per day salary
Senior personnel- $75 per day salary
Personnel- $50 per day salary
Intern- $0 per day salary


When someone leaves the company voluntarily or dies:

Everyone underneath that person is promoted by one rank, or until all ranks in between are filled. Killing your superiors might be one way of advancing up the corporate ladder.


"Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream?"
-Homer Simpson



Recruitment and employment:

Any member of any corporation can attempt to hire more people for their corporation. All they have to do is offer that person a position. The hired person will immediately become the lowest-ranked member of the corporation, if they agree to switch corporate affiliation. The owner of the corporation will wish to remove the number of employees from rival corporations and add to his own, because that means larger personal profits for himself.

People can request to not be invited to any new corporations if they wish (for OOC reasons, perhaps.... less private messages clogging up their inbox, or any other reason)

People who are making a low salary in a large corporation might wish to join a smaller corporation to move higher up the corporate ladder. If they are going for a money or corporate based victory, or have a personal goal involving such a move, they might wish to resign from one company and be hired by another. Smaller corporations therefore have an advantage when hiring people, but their owners make less money. Larger corporations will be worth more when stealing from them, but can afford to hire more security. They might also decide to offer sign-on bonuses to new hires, which might make them more interested to join, even if it means a lower wage.

No one can fire employees of a corporation... (technically)

For story purposes, let's suggest the employees and management are unionized, and the firing process is too complicated and takes years to accomplish. Of course, they could be "fired" by the grim reaper.... being dead means you don't collect a paycheck anymore. :wink:

Players can actively seek better opportunities elsewhere...

By posting their desire for new employment publicly. When contacted by another corporation interested in hiring them, they can list their qualifications (such as experience doing nighttime abilities, or their ability to manipulate the tally, or their ability to appeal a lynch or block a lynch, etc). A player's powers come in handy and if they wish to offer such powers to a corporation, they might be able to negotiate a higher sign-on bonus. All sign-on bonuses must be approved by the Owner of the corporation, since it comes out of his personal finances, unless employees of the corporation got together and pooled some of their own personal cash to create a sign-on bonus. New hires are under no obligation to remain loyal to this corporation... they could accept the sign-on bonus and then quit the company the next day. Obviously such dishonest behavior might be met with reprisals... such as being murdered. A corporation might demand loyalty for x number of rounds, or for the rest of the game, in exchange for such sign-on bonuses. Again the employee is under no real obligation to comply, except under threat of death, perhaps.



Forming your own corporation:

So, you feel unappreciated by the corporate establishment? Can't find an awesome job in another company? Well.... ambitious ones might decide to form their own corporation!

Ah, but it's not as easy as snapping your fingers together. There are some prerequisites.





1. You must quit your former career and thus become unemployed.
2. You must convince 4 other players to quit their former career and join your upstart corporation.
3. The 5 of you must send me a message declaring your intentions to form a corporation, telling me who is the owner and who are the employees, in what rank.
4. Starting a business isn't cheap. It will cost $5,000 to form your own corporation. You can pool your money together to pay this start-up cost, or the new Owner can bear the full burden if he wishes. The rule is, you cannot spend more money than you have.

Note: Once you form your own corporation, or you are an owner of a corporation, you CANNOT change corporate alignment.




Night Jobs


https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/Big%20New%20Yorker/Night-400.png

Your corporate salary and affiliation relates to your "Day job". You get money every day for your corporate Day Job.

At night (or during the day, if applicable) you moonlight and do a "Night Job". What you earn that night depends on your actions and your experience level.







Unskilled (Vanilla) Townsperson- $100 per action.



Gumshoe: $150 per action
Private Eye: $200 per action
Forensic Investigator: $400 per action



Nurse: $150 per action
Doctor: $300 per action
Surgeon: $500 per action



Public defender: $150 per action
Defense attorney/prosecution attorney: $400 per action
District attorney/Judge: $750 per action



City Councilor: $50 per action
Congressman: $200 per action
Senator: $500 per action
Governor (incumbent): $1000 per action
Senator (incumbent): $800 per action



Police Sergeant/Lounge singer: $150 per action
Police Lieutentant/Exotic dancer: $250 per action
Police Captain/Prostitute: $500 per action



Watchman: $100 per action
Security guard: $200 per action
Personal bodyguard: $300 per action



Vigilante: $0 per action
Hitman: $0 per action
Assassin: $0 per action



Crook: $0 per action
Thug: $0 per action
Gangster: $0 per action

Don: $1500 per day (minus expenses for hired goons)
Luca: $1000 per day
Made: $500 per day
Wiseguy: $200 per day

F.B.I Level 1- $100 per day
F.B.I Level 2- $200 per day
F.B.I Level 3- $300 per day

Serial Killer Level 1- $50 per day
Serial Killer Level 2- $75 per day
Serial Killer Level 3- $100 per day
Serial Killer Level 4- $200 per day
Serial Killer Level 5- $500 per day

Special Roles- Salary not revealed




Team Victory Conditions:



https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/Big%20New%20Yorker/pewter_trophy_lrg.jpg


Mafia Victory: One family must become 50% or more of the remaining population of New York (Total Mafia victory)

Mafia Alliance Victory: Less than 20 players remaining, Other Dons agree to a peace with the largest mafia family (lesser mafia victory, ranked by power and wealth)

Neutral Victory: All Dons are destroyed and neutral players are the largest remaining faction, and there are no more incorruptible townies remaining. (Total Neutral victory)

Neutral Alliance Victory: Neutrals agree to a peace with the largest mafia family (lesser mafia victory/neutral victory, ranked by power and wealth)

Town Victory: All mafia Dons and Serial Killers are destroyed. (Town victory, score based on how many actual townies, incorruptible townies, and neutrals remain)

F.B.I. Victory: All true mafiosi and other criminals are eliminated, F.B.I faction still exists. (Total FBI victory)

Serial Killer Victory: Serial Killers remain alive at the end of the game. (Serial Killer victory)

Draw by majority agreement: All Serial Killers and FBI are eliminated, less than 10 players remaining, remaining criminals, neutrals, mafiosi, and townies agree to a draw by majority vote. (Draw, ranked by power and wealth)

Corporate Victory: All Serial Killers and FBI are eliminated, less than 10 players remaining, All remaining players belong to a single corporation and agree to a town/mafia draw by unanimous agreement. (Therefore, only one Owner remaining)

Note: Owners of corporations cannot change corporate alignment.



Neutral Alignment:


https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/Big%20New%20Yorker/Neutral.png

Mafia Gangsters who have lost their Dons and could not form their own family will become Neutral aligned.
Corruptible townies who go down the "criminal" career path and remain that way become Neutral aligned.
Corruptible townies who go down the "politician" career path and remain that way become Neutral aligned.
Incorruptible townies cannot become Neutral aligned.
This might be a viable route to victory if there is an intense mafia war in the endgame and not enough townies to win via town victory.
This is a viable route to victory for former Mafia gangsters who think they have a better chance siding with the town/neutrals than rejoining a mafia family.
Going neutral might assist in your personal quest for wealth or a Corporate victory, since neutrals are less of a threat to the town and the mafia, and can be easily bribed...


Individual Victory conditions:


This means you share the victory with whichever team won the game. You must complete all your personal objectives and survive (if necessary).
You are also ranked by total points, so your team can lose and you can fail your personal objectives and die, and still rank very high.

[Double A]

So Pizza, what's the difference between cops and hookers?

Uh... besides the obvious, anyway.

[Zack]

Can''t wait!

[pevergreen]

100 players? You'd be lucky to get that many, and if you did, I'd wager 20-40 inactives.

Too complicated for me, I'd have to pass on this one.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So Pizza, what's the difference between cops and hookers?

Uh... besides the obvious, anyway.

Players can request to perform their actions as a cop or as a dancer. Some people, macho types mostly, might not take kindly to the idea of dressing their awesome character up in drag and trolling the streets offering "love" for pay. For ease of writeup purposes, everyone in the game will be referred to as "he" by default, except when their identity is known to be otherwise. (Such as when lynching a female player, or a female player is being murdered)

When you think of Mafia Dons, you think of men; it would seem strange for Don Tataglia to dress up like a hooker. But I guess if he really wants to... :shrug: that's why if he's dressing up like a cop, it might make more sense. But that's for aesthetic purposes.

Having people "arrested" every night, multiple times a night, can get pretty dry, write-up wise. Having businessmen, mobsters, and politicians seduced by the ladies would make the writeups a bit more interesting to read. Of course, businesswomen, female gangsters, and female politicians could always be seduced by male strippers and so forth. And I'm not necessarily limiting that to opposite-sex pairings either. Perhaps Senator so and so likes his strippers to have hair on their chest. I'm not all that concerned with the gender aspect, but some people might be.

If there are any other differences between roleblocker cops and roleblocker strippers, I haven't decided yet.

[Double A]

What about making one illegal and one legal?

(obviously the cop would be the illegal one and the strippers would be legal :tongue:)

[Askthepizzaguy]

What about making one illegal and one legal?

(obviously the cop would be the illegal one and the strippers would be legal :tongue:)

Well, the problem there is the why.

Why would I do one or the other. What purpose does it serve, and wouldn't it reveal something about the person doing the blocking?

See I wanted to do it like the incorruptibles were cops and the corruptibles were strippers, but the issue there is that it acts as a poor man's investigation against the person in question. I don't want to make it mean anything or make it too revealing, see?

So if it related to something in-game, then it would reveal too much. Still, I'm toying with ideas. Let me know if you have any.

[Double A]

What about the assassin? What if you want to vig someone?

Oh wait, yeah murder is against the law isn't it?

Oh! What about trackers? That would be a twist.

[Askthepizzaguy]

What about the assassin? What if you want to vig someone?

These seem like vague questions. Can you be more specific?


Oh! What about trackers? That would be a twist.

There might be roles in the game that I haven't mentioned, to cut down on the vanilla-ness of the game. But if you see a role isn't listed, it either won't be in the game or it will remain a secret. Don't you worry, I am aware of most kind of mafia roles and have included all that I wish to.

[Double A]

These seem like vague questions. Can you be more specific?

I meant what if you killed someone not for the mafia, and weren't an SK.


There might be roles in the game that I haven't mentioned, to cut down on the vanilla-ness of the game. But if you see a role isn't listed, it either won't be in the game or it will remain a secret. Don't you worry, I am aware of most kind of mafia roles and have included all that I wish to.

Well, with 100 people, you're bound to :tongue:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I meant what if you killed someone not for the mafia, and weren't an SK.

There are several ways to kill in this game.

1. As a serial killer, that's pretty much what you'll be wanting every night. (Serial Killer)
2. As a mafia scumbag, you can perform a murder quite easily with another or a group of your brethren. (Mafia gangster)
3. As a townsperson or neutral who wishes to perform some scumtastic tasks, you could go out and murder someone. (Neutral/criminal)
4. As a townsperson training to be a vigilante/hitman/assassin, you can vigilante kill. (Town/Neutral)

What are the differences?

A serial killer will never need to work with anyone else to perform a murder, but they can if they wish.
A mafioso will likely need to work with someone else to perform a murder. Only a mafia Don could perform a murder alone, and I might reserve that for if their whole family gets destroyed.
Townies or former gangsters who perform criminal acts (theft, dealing, murder) will be able to perform a kill, but with a greater "criminal" impact on their alignment and may be misread as mafia when investigated.
Townies who confine their work to just hunting certain suspects (vigilantism) will focus on just performing kills. They will get some kind of bonus for doing this. Perhaps they will be less likely to be caught or wounded during the kill attempt than townies on the "criminal" path would.

All of these forms of murder are against the law, but then again so is lynching. This is a nearly lawless city in a state of martial law. Lynching someone or killing them in the name of vigilante justice will have little or no impact on your alignment. Performing murders as a scumbag or townie criminal will have an impact on your alignment (and proficiency).


A Mafia Don will usually be the most skilled at performing a murder.
A serial killer or townie assassin will be the next most skilled.
High ranking mafiosi will be the next most skilled.
Less skilled vigilantes and mafia wiseguys will be the next most skilled.
Finally, amateur criminals (townies on the criminal career path) trying to bust heads will not be very proficient at it.



Does that even answer your question? I'm still not sure what you're asking, exactly.



EDIT: Come to think of it, the "Ripper" level of Serial killer easily matches a mafia don. So yes, they can become equal.

[Double A]

Yes, it does. Thanks Pizza!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Perhaps some numbers would help,

A Mafia Don will usually be the most skilled at performing a murder. (This means his chance of performing a successful kill will quickly climb over 100%, in other words having a chance to murder through protection, and at some point will have a 200% chance, which kills through almost any protection.)

A serial killer will be the next most skilled. (They start off under 100%, but can climb to 200%, making them as deadly as the deadliest Mafia Don)

High ranking mafiosi or townie assassin will be the next most skilled. (Even untrained, gangsters performing a kill correctly, with the right numbers involved, begin at 100% as a base standard, then you add in items and any other multipliers. Townie assassins will be formidable, once trained.)

Less skilled vigilantes and mafia wiseguys will be the next most skilled. (These roles will kill at close to, but not quite, 100% efficiency against an unarmed target)

Finally, amateur criminals trying to bust heads will not be very proficient at it. (There will be considerably less than 100% efficiency, and there will be a fair chance of being caught or injured in the process)

[Double A]

Yeah that helps :beam:

[Zack]

I'm not seeing anything about strippers or hookers, am I missing something in the rules?

[Subotan]

Uh oh...random percentage chance of successful kills...

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm not seeing anything about strippers or hookers, am I missing something in the rules?

Check "Game Roles"

See:


Roleblocker path: (Criminal)

Working with 4 others, you must successfully block someone 3 times (level 1) then successfully block someone 3 more times (level 2) and then 3 more times (level 3).

- Level 1 [Sergeant/Singer] 50% chance of blocking someone.
- Level 2 [Lieutenant/Dancer] 75% chance of blocking someone.
- Level 3 [Captain/Prostitute] 100% chance of blocking someone.

[Double A]

Uh oh...random percentage chance of successful kills...

It's not a random percentage, Pizza already has the numbers worked out :tongue:

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's not a random percentage, Pizza already has the numbers worked out :tongue:

I have already formed three likely scenarios for this game, based on what I know of you and who I predict will join the game. Then I rolled all of the results.



First of all, if 87 people join the game, then Yaseikhaan wins the game for the town by becoming a one-man townie death squad and simply assassinating everyone, ending up hitting an impressive 4 mafia Dons personally. When asked why he was being such an awesome townie this game, he said and I quote: "I wasn't trying to win the game for the town. I just wanted to kill things."

If 93 people join the game, then Tincow wins the game by being the owner of the last corporation left standing. Interestingly enough, he started his own Corporation and still won because he is that bureaucratically efficient.

If I get 100 people to join the game, then I foresee God Emperor winning the game as a Serial Killer. Incidentally, what he does to Romanic in round 17 is too horrendous to describe.

[Double A]

:laugh4:

[Subotan]

Say if we are allocated the role of the Owner of a Coropration, can we rename it?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Say if we are allocated the role of the Owner of a Coropration, can we rename it?

....No. :beam:

[Secura]

The tireless production machine rolls on, huh? :P

I admire how you devised this alongside the Star Wars one that you've got planned too... I've struggled to pull a small game together, two large games at once is way out of my league! I'm certain that this will be just as good as the rest of your games, and I'm sure alot of people are going to enjoy it. :3

[Romanic]

If I get 100 people to join the game, then I foresee God Emperor winning the game as a Serial Killer. Incidentally, what he does to Romanic in round 17 is too horrendous to describe.



If we get 100 players, I'm dropping from the game! :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

So folks, you should be able to see the general format and concept...

What am I missing? (besides secret roles or subplots.... I'll handle that) Is there something you'd like to see in this game that you don't?

Are there parts of the game you don't like or don't understand why they are there? Any criticisms about the balance/fairness of certain roles? Are there parts of the game I need to clarify or make more concrete? For example:

1. I see I need to detail the politician career path and legal path a bit more
2. I need to define what investigations reveal better.
3. I need to define the criminal path a bit more
4. Items and strength need more information.

And so on. I am aware the game is relatively complicated by comparison to a regular mafia game, but... in my opinion there's just some "overwheming" due to the game mechanics description being large. No one will know the game mechanics by memory alone. That's why it is written down. Even a game like Monopoly has an instruction booklet or the rules written on the box, because even a simple game like that has somewhat detailed rules. This isn't dungeons and dragons, though.


Sample Roles

Note: This will not be what your ROLE PM looks like. It includes my commentary and sample strategy. I obviously won't include such helpful hints in your actual ROLE PM. This is just to give you a general idea of what to do.

Suppose you got a townie role (corruptible) and you were a manager in the Automotive corporation. Let's also suggest I might have randomized some extra skill in certain areas, or powers due to item distribution. In this case, you have an inherent bonus when performing a murder or a theft because you are particularly sneaky.


Townie- (corruptible)
Alignment- Lawful
Day job: Manager- (Authoritative Automotive Company)
Night job: unemployed- (not skilled yet)
Attribute: Sneaky- (extra 20% bonus when performing theft or murder)
Personal Goal: Be elected Senator

Strength: 3

Item: Antique hunting rifle
+10% when performing a murder



Townie- corruptible

This means you could be forced to become a mafia against your will, but it is also fairly easy for you to become mafia intentionally. You have what it takes to do evil things, somewhere inside of you. You can murder and kill and do whatever you want, and the town will not want to lynch you for it because you're one of them. Because you're corruptible, the mafia will want to recruit you and make you one of them. Killing you is probably not on their to-do list. All you really need to worry about are townies on the vigilante path, townies on the criminal path, or serial killers.

Day Job: Manager- $400 per day

That means you earn $400 per day, which is below average. You want to earn better than average to keep up with others in the wealth race, so you might want to join some upstart corporation as CEO or CFO, that would present a significant pay increase.

Night job- unemployed
Attribute: Sneaky- (extra 20% bonus when performing theft or murder)

Chances are, you might want to keep your options open, and play as a criminal, so you can become more skilled at stealing, dealing, and murder. You might join a mafia family, or you might remain independent. Or you could ignore your natural talents, because you want to go for the investigator path. Maybe if necessary you can become an investigator/vigilante down the road.... use your murder talents once you've found some mafia.

Alignment- lawful

Because you are lawful, no one will suspect that you're a criminal for a while. But the more you perform criminal acts, the more your alignment will be shifted from lawful to neutral, and then from neutral to criminal. If you want to go down the criminal path, you won't be forced to become mafia very cheaply for some time.

Personal Goal- Be elected Senator

This is a relatively simple goal. You have some political ambitions, and fulfilling them means you've done what you wanted to do before you die. The trouble with Senators is that they have extra voting power, which means you will be a prized addition to a mafia family. Some investigators might want to check you out. If you use your powers to affect the tally and lynch mafia, they might want to take you out.... or bribe you. In any case such a career will impact how others view you, because it is high profile. If you don't try to lynch mafia at all, you will likely be tossed out of office quickly. For you, that's not a problem because your goal is to become Senator, not remain such.

Still, you must decide if it is worth pursuing your personal goal.... obviously it factors into your points, but you could always save it for later. If you survive, and there are less people interested in being Senator, it might be an easy goal to fulfill. You could even make it your campaign slogan: "I promise to only serve one term, to complete my personal goal." I will still try to make it difficult, as several other people might have that same goal.

Strength: 3

You have an average amount of strength. If you perform dangerous tasks and fail, you will lose strength. When you get down to 1 strength, any failed dangerous task is death.All in all, you have areas you're interested in and things you'd probably be good at.


Townie- (incorruptible)
Alignment- Lawful
Day job: Chief Operations Officer- (Regal Retail Management)
Night job: unemployed- (not skilled yet)
Attribute: Patient- (extra 5% bonus when performing nurse/doctor/surgeon tasks)
Personal Goal: Become a police lieutenant

Strength: 4

Item: A.A.C. Nitro 7, turbocharged (expensive sports car)
+10% evasion (helps avoid being killed by murder/vigilantism)



Townie- incorruptible

This means you can never become mafia. You will want to seek out and work with all other incorruptible townies. You will also become a target for the mafia to murder, because you will never join the mafia. You can only win if the town wins, so you have to try to convince people to go down lawful paths and resist the mafia's influence. You might try to bribe people to do lawful actions with you, to resist their power. If you can build a network of defenders and investigators and doctors, then you might do well.

Day Job: Chief Operations Officer- $800 per day

That means you earn $800 per day, which is higher than average. You will probably stay loyal to this company, and since you're not interested in much beyond a town victory and fulfilling your personal goals, you might just ditch the whole "wealth" concept and spend every dime you have gaining people's loyalty and keeping them down the lawful path. You might wish for your company to win the game, but you're not as interested in a corporate victory unless the town is mostly destroyed.

Night job- unemployed
Attribute: Patient- (extra 5% bonus when performing nurse/doctor/surgeon tasks)

You would make a particularly good doctor, and because they are in such demand, you should probably do that. However, you don't necessarily have to do this. In fact you have a goal to become a police lieutenant, so you might want to do that first.

Alignment- lawful

Because you are incorruptible, your alignment (lawful, neutral, criminal) is unimportant. Your actions will change your alignment by investigation but you will always be incorruptible. You're an idealist like that.

Personal Goal- Become a police lieutenant

This goal will take some effort to accomplish. It is also less important to you than a team victory, so you don't necessarily need to go down the roleblocker path just to accomplish a personal goal which might be a distraction from your other ambitions.

Strength: 4

You could perform dangerous tasks like theft or murder and fail, and still survive. If you become injured, your strength drops.So that's another role. Here's another:


Serial Killer- (corruptible)
Alignment- Neutral
Day job: Vice President of management- (Core Computers Limited)
Night job: unemployed- (not skilled yet)
Attribute: Alert- (extra 10% bonus when avoiding night kills)
Personal Goal: Kill a total of 3 Corporation owners or Mafia Dons.

Strength: 5

Item: Police radio scanner
+50% anti-roleblock (helps avoid being blocked by police officers. You're also naturally less interested in dancers/strippers.)



Serial Killer- corruptible

This means you can pretend to be a mafioso. You can perform standard townie or mafia tasks in addition to your regularly scheduled serial killings.

Day Job: Vice President of management- $600 per day

That means you earn $600 per day, which is roughly average. You might use this money to bribe people into protecting you, or performing investigations for you. Or maybe to buy items off of people, or bid on items.

Night job- unemployed
Attribute: Alert- (extra 10% bonus when avoiding night kills)

You're always going to be a serial killer, so that's what you'll be working on. However, you can take part in group activities and have them work, even if you're doing something your serial killing that night.

Alignment- neutral

You start off neutral and can attempt to do whatever you like with your alignment. You can take part in groups and change your alignment that way. You will always be corruptible and this, can join the mafia if you wish. If you're less interested in being recruited as mafia, you could take part in more lawful acts.

Personal Goal- Kill a total of 3 Corporation owners or Mafia Dons.

Just what it says. Kill heads of mafia families or corporations to make yourself nice and notorious. :evil:

Strength: 5

You will be performing dangerous tasks often, so you need to have high strength. Note that you will only lose strength as it relates to your serial killing action, not failed group actions.

[Renata]

I like. :)

[God Emperor]

Wonderful .. I suggest a 100 people join this game :idea2:

... and ofc sorry to Romanic for the gore yet to come.. was needed :rifle:

[Splitpersonality]

In.

[Askthepizzaguy]

1. I see I need to detail the politician career path and legal path a bit more
2. I need to define what investigations reveal better.
3. I need to define the criminal path a bit more

Politicians

Senators

Every 3 day phases, elections are held to determine who will be the two Senators from the state of New York. The top two candidates by vote will become the new Senators. This causes their vote to be counted three times, giving them significant influence over the tally.

Senators have additional security around them, because they are elected officials. They have an additional 25% resistance to night kills.

Governor

Every 2 day phases, elections are held to determine who will be the next Governor from the state of New York. The top candidate by vote will become the new Governor. This allows them to pardon anyone they please (forces a No Lynch), or cause a double execution from a tied vote (Double Lynch) or choose between two candidates in a tied vote (Single Lynch). They can also suggest methods of execution, if they give me their method in advance. If they would like to write the execution, they can send it to me for approval; but I have creative control and I may reject their suggestion for any reason.

Governors have additional security around them, because they are elected officials. They have an additional 50% resistance to night kills.

City Councilor

Every person who collects Senatorial votes will have those votes added to their running tally. When they have collected 30 Senatorial votes over their lifetime (even from previous phases) they will be granted the title of City Councilor. This grants them they ability to do support votes.

Support votes act as a negative vote, which means that they can influence the tally by reducing the number of votes against any particular candidate, without having to suggest an alternative candidate. City Councilors have the advantage of being able to bandwagon a lynch candidate, and then quickly reverse the bandwagon if necessary.

Example: If Sigurd and Seamus are the only two voting for Sasaki, but someone reveals that Sasaki is an incorruptible doctor, and Seamus is a City Councilor, then Seamus can single-handedly reduce the amount of votes for Sasaki to zero by unvoting Sasaki and then cancelling Sigurd's vote for Sasaki with a support vote of his own. Politicians might ask for bribe money in order to perform this task, even to spare pro-town roles. If Sasaki himself were a City Councilor, he can cast a support vote for himself, negating one vote against him. The mafia will be interested in bribing their way out of a lynch.

Any former Governor or Senator is automatically granted the position of City Councilor when he leaves office.

State Senator

Every person who collects Gubernatorial votes will have those votes added to their running tally. When they have collected 30 Gubernatorial votes over their lifetime (even from previous phases) AND they have been granted the position of City Councilor (30 Senatorial votes or previous experience as Senator or Governor), they will be elected to the State Senate. This grants them the ability to do TWO support votes (but they only have one lynch vote).

A State Senator has significant influence over the vote tally. If the lynch vote is anywhere near close, a single State Senator or a pair of State Senators can upset the balance of power and allow some other candidate to get the noose, eliminating the need to petition the governor for a pardon.

State Senators have additional security around them, because they are elected officials. They have an additional 5% resistance to night kills.

Congressmen

If a person has moved up the ladder from City Councilor to State Senator, they can become Congressmen. Those who are elected to Congress can never be removed from office (just like real life! :tongue2:) and they will have the power to either double-vote for a lynch or double-support-vote against a lynch.

In order to move from the State Senate to Congress, someone must Run For Congress. They must then gain at least 20 Congressional votes, or 50% of the total vote, whichever is lower.

Congressmen have additional security around them, because they are elected officials. They have an additional 15% resistance to night kills.Lawyers

Public Defender

At level 1, a Public Defender has a 25% chance of sparing someone from a lynch during the day, or protecting someone from investigation at night. They can only do one or the other in a given day/night cycle.

Defense Attorney

At level 2, an attorney must decide between the Defense Attorney or Prosecution attorney path. If they choose the Defense Attorney path, this person has a 50% chance of sparing someone from a lynch during the day, or protecting someone from investigation at night. They can only do one or the other in a given day/night cycle.

District Attorney

At level 3, a Defense Attorney becomes the District Attorney. This person has a 75% chance of sparing someone from a lynch during the day, or protecting someone from investigation at night. They can only do one or the other in a given day/night cycle.

Prosecutor

At level 2, an attorney must decide between the Defense Attorney or Prosecution attorney path. If they choose the Prosecution Attorney path, this person has a 50% chance of overriding defense attorneys/forcing a lynch during the day, or protecting someone from investigation at night. They can only do one or the other in a given day/night cycle.

Judge

At level 3, a Prosecution Attorney becomes the Judge. This person has a 75% chance of forcing a lynch (overriding defense attorneys, etc) during the day, or protecting someone from investigation at night. They can only do one or the other in a given day/night cycle.Investigations


- Level 1 [Gumshoe] 50% chance of successful investigation, cannot see through inconclusive.
- Level 2 [Private Eye] 75% chance of successful investigation, can see through inconclusive with a second scan.
- Level 3 [Forensic Investigator] 100% chance of successful investigation, can see through inconclusive.

First investigation:


reveals Inconclusive, Lawful, Neutral, Criminal (alignment)
reveals day job


Second investigation:


reveals Lawful, Neutral, Criminal, Incorruptible, (alignment) Neutral, Mafia, F.B.I (team affiliation)
reveals highest-ranked night job


Third investigation:


reveals Lawful, Neutral, Criminal, Incorruptible, (alignment) Neutral, Mafia, Serial Killer, F.B.I (team affiliation)
reveals day job and all night jobs
reveals special roles
Criminals


Criminal path: (Criminal)

Working with 4 others, you must successfully execute a criminal action 2 times. (Level 1) Then 2 more times (level 2) and then 2 more times (level 3).

- Level 1 [Crook] 50% chance of success doing a criminal action (theft, dealing, murder)
- Level 2 [Thug] 75% chance of success doing a criminal action (theft, dealing, murder)
- Level 3 [Gangster] 100% chance of success doing a criminal action (theft, dealing, murder)

Forming your own mafia Family:


You need at least 3 members to form a new mafia family
Each founding member (who is not ex-Mafia) needs to have performed 1 successful theft, 1 successful deal, and 1 successful murder. (criminal path)
All founding members of the family must be criminal-aligned.
All founding members must voluntarily join this new organization and unanimously vote someone in as the Don.
Before the Don can recruit new members, at least 1 member of the family must be a level 3 criminal (Gangster) or be former mafia from another family.

[Methos]

I voted "Consider me signed up!"

[Skooma Addict]

Ditto ^^^ Count me in

[wideyedwanderer]

I'm in.

[Beefy187]

Long Version
I tried planning (in my head) this type of game while back. But couldn't get it to work out, so its nice to see someone do it :bow:
It looks great. I'll definitely try my best to join this game if time allows it.
Curse you pizza for creating fun looking games :smash:

Short Version
In!:beam:

[remake20]

Sure WTH I'll play.

[Joooray]

If I'm around at that time, I'm most definitely IN!!

[landlubber]

I'm interested, but I am a little confused. The mafia Dons can recruit, right? Do they start with any partners, or do they have to recruit them all?

[landlubber]

Oh, and another question: You get to choose what night job you enter, as long as you work with other people, correct? Can you change your job once you've reached level one of one job?

[Winston Hughes]

Item: Antique hunting rifle

That sounds familiar...

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm interested, but I am a little confused. The mafia Dons can recruit, right? Do they start with any partners, or do they have to recruit them all?

They can recruit, and start with nobody.


Oh, and another question: You get to choose what night job you enter, as long as you work with other people, correct? Can you change your job once you've reached level one of one job?

You can choose what night job you enter, as long as you work with other people.

You can attempt to perform any task at any time, but if you have not reached the second level in that task (i.e. you can attempt the action by yourself now) then you must perform the task with the required number of people.

[Diamondeye]

That sounds familiar...

Road to Ruin?


Attribute: Patient- (extra 5% bonus when performing nurse/doctor/surgeon tasks)

Nurse tasks? :tongue:

[Winston Hughes]

Road to Ruin?

Remember those heroic (if somewhat unsanitary) fugitives, the Three D's: Dickie, Dazzler and Delilah?

Dazzler was shot by some mean soldiers at the end of Journey to Nowhere, then Dickie got eaten by zombies whilst rummaging through a garbage can in Resident Evil.

Delilah, however, is still on the loose. If rumours are to be believed, she was last seen in the possession of some Syntech mercenaries as they fled Dark Falls in a helicopter...

[Double A]

Never heard of them.

[Diamondeye]

Remember those heroic (if somewhat unsanitary) fugitives, the Three D's: Dickie, Dazzler and Delilah?

Dazzler was shot by some mean soldiers at the end of Journey to Nowhere, then Dickie got eaten by zombies whilst rummaging through a garbage can in Resident Evil.

Delilah, however, is still on the loose. If rumours are to be believed, she was last seen in the possession of some Syntech mercenaries as they fled Dark Falls in a helicopter...

Actually I just mis-remembered the name of Journey to Nowhere. It was what I tried to refer to. So I got your reference :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sign ups for this game are OPEN!

If I can't get at least 70 players, I can't host it. Please sign up now, by following this LINK:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?131165-Sign-up-thread-Star-Wars-Big-New-Yorker-or-game-to-be-determined.-%28Sign-ups-OPEN!%29

[Askthepizzaguy]

Believe it or not, we may get enough players for me to host this one.

I would like to entertain suggestions from you guys....

My thought is that the money system might be a bit overcomplicated.

The thing is, I wanted there to be a battle between corporations, and for there to be some kind of incentive to have mafia and corruptible town working together on something, such that they could win together, that way there is less of an anti-mafia jihad like there was in Capo III, although there will still be plenty of folks who want to see such a thing happen.

In order for corporations to function, there needs to be a system which rewards a streamlined corporation (money goes directly to the top, fewer employees to pay) but which also rewards ambition (victory for corporation requires elimination/absorption of all other corporations, but you cannot absorb the CEOs) and makes a larger corporation harder to maintain (less money to employees at the bottom, who are interested in money, and therefore are more susceptible to being hired by a different company for better pay or for bribes.)

The system also hasn't been tested yet, and there's much math involved.

The money system also prevents the mafia from simply hiring everyone in sight as a mafioso. You need to pay your goons, after all.

I could scrap the "item" system and the "personal goals" system, to make it simpler, but frankly I wanted those in here, because that has the capability of turning every character into an interesting, non-cookie-cutter character.

Do you guys prefer a game with some depth to it, or would you rather I streamline this?

[God Emperor]

Imo, Depth just makes things more interesting, even though it may be a little flawed as it is experimental. I think it is normal that players tend to enjoy games the more, if they have some special role (like being mafia) . Adding Depth everyone has a larger role to play, as they can influence the game in more ways.

[ULC]

Do what feels comfortable pizza, and what you think would make others feel comfortable. IMHO, if there are to many variables, neither the host nor the player can keep up. Find the focus to the game, and concentrate on it. If this means the corporations and what they bring to the table are the focus, then remove the peripheral mechanics because all they are going to do is distract.

Maybe it would be best if the mafioso only wished to become the leaders of corporations, and the town must fight against such corruption. This would pit the Corporations against each other, while also pitting them against the mafioso. Townies could be "Employees" with a distinction of "Regular Joe" for the corruptible, and "Idealist/Purist/Loyal" for the incorruptible, with possibly different game outcomes based upon which section of the incorruptible townies are in the majority at the end.

To prevent Corps from being quickly singled out as mafia controlled, one could set it up so that the game obviously ends when all the mafia are eliminated, but the actual victor is the corporation which has the largest amount of networth, and only those who are part of that corporation actually receive the townie win. Put a cap on corporation size to prevent late game hopping to one corporation (and maybe create rivalries to the point you'd kill to get into the winning corporation) or make it so it is a bad idea (mafia autowin if they are in control of said corporation even if the townies outnumber them?)

One thing I am against is the items though - I don't see the need really, they don't seem to be a key component and add to complexity. I am also against strength - it discourages players and feels like an exclusionary mechanic instead of an inclusive one. You want to engage your players, not discourage them - it'd be better if they gained something for trying, no matter what, so they get points for playing. Let the actual leveling system reward players who are successful or take the correct risks.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I may take your advice regarding strength.

Maybe the items too. Could be an idea for a sequel if the rest of the mechanics work.

[Jarema]

I'm new in mafia games, but I feel that , like YLC said, there should be no strength in the game (at least not in the way it is for now). I also agree (but to the lesser extend) with having no items.
But I like the rest of your design more than I like the rest of YLC proposition

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'd like to revive this concept, do a bit of a redesign on it to make it a little less complicated, and to adjust some of the numbers to make advancement easier, that way people won't have to wait until the very endgame to have a powerful role.

Will need some time to go over the mechanics and do a redesign, but if you liked Capo IV and want to do something similar in the future, post here.

[Populus Romanus]

In ftw.

Even if I can't kill you personally, Pizza, I will kill everyone you ever knew or loved in Capo.

[Askthepizzaguy]

In ftw.

Even if I can't kill you personally, Pizza, I will kill everyone you ever knew or loved in Capo.

Tell them how you're going to kill them.

Kill them.

Then tell them how you just killed them.

[Montmorency]

I remember this. One of the first things I saw back when I joined.

[Nightbringer]

I would be interested in taking part.

[Jarema]

Be in

[johnhughthom]

Still very interested.

[Askthepizzaguy]

All right.

Now, my question to you fine folks is.... do you think you'd be able to handle the dual game?

There's the Capo-like roles of doctor and vigilante and so forth, but there's also the Day roles of being a member of a corporation and trying to work your way up the corporate ladder, and possibly even trying for a Corporate victory, which is total domination of the game by a single corporation.

It's a lot to juggle and Capo was a lot for some people.

You also have to figure, people do have real lives and sometimes go inactive, team games involving complicated strategies where teammates don't show up, can have problems.


Do you want to try for the game to be hosted mostly as-is, or should I gut the whole money/corporation system altogether?


As game host, I can handle it behind the scenes, as a player, you can elect to ignore it unless you're a mafioso and need money to pay your fellow gangsters. But are you even interested in the game as it is, or would you prefer it with no money system?

[johnhughthom]

Personally I like it, but looking at the vote you had a while ago this was the least popular of your options and it was most likely the complexity of the dual roles that put people off. For me, the only thing I would change is the number of corporations, ten seems an awful lot to start with, particularly when the players can form new ones.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Well that number would be based on if we had 100 players or so.

If we have less and I expect we will have less, then you'd have fewer corporations. One for every 10 players, probably.

This gives you a starting "base" team of a whole lot of people and a reasonable excuse to contact people you're not necessarily too familiar with.


"Hey! We both work for the same corporation, want to work together on other things/share strategies on how to make our corporation win/I think our CEO is a serial killer" and so on.

I'd welcome suggestions on tweaking it.

[johnhughthom]

I was just thinking that fewer corporation = fewer chances for promotion and a large bunch of interns desperate to get on the payroll. What would they do to get that first foot on the ladder? It would tie the day and night games more closely together. "Hmm, should I kill this guy to help my mafia family, or this guy to improve my chances of promotion at the brewery?"

[Askthepizzaguy]

I was just thinking that fewer corporation = fewer chances for promotion and a large bunch of interns desperate to get on the payroll. What would they do to get that first foot on the ladder? It would tie the day and night games more closely together. "Hmm, should I kill this guy to help my mafia family, or this guy to improve my chances of promotion at the brewery?"

I actually thought the pay rate differences were enough in that regard. Unless you're a top executive, you're losing the money race by a wide margin.

As such, even a paid low-rate worker isn't earning a lot of cash, and they're behind. What if a smaller corporation has space for an executive? They'll switch corporations in a heartbeat.

Why be loyal to X-company when Y-company is offering you a job that pays twice as much? As such, it's harder for a Corporation to maintain employees unless the executives offer "bonuses" under the table and bribe their lower paid workers.

Company loyalty is crucial to a corporate victory. Loyalty can be expensive to buy.

These are just some of the dynamics I imagined. You also have to figure, corporations will be subject to crime, and they can lose funds that way. And employees might be able to steal from their own company easier than they can steal from another...

How about corporate spying? work for another company while secretly reporting to another.... for a price...

Come on now, with a money system, there will be enough intrigue behind the scenes that some might not even care that there's a mafia family out there. The mafia game might not be as interesting or pressing as a hostile takeover or massive corruption scheme.


Oh, I want to introduce scummy game mechanics which allow for personal glory, cloak and dagger betrayal, and epic victories that don't necessarily involve murder. So juicy.



Oh please let me host it with the money system intact. It will be like YLC's Blood Money and Power game which I helped him design, except I'll actually host my game!

[johnhughthom]

It will be like YLC's Blood Money and Power game which I helped him design, except I'll actually host my game!


Will you stop mentioning that! It was a crime it died so early.

Fair enough on your other points, as always you have a much better idea of the big picture than me.

[Jarema]

I will try to handle it, I promise. It sounds good!

[El Barto]

So you are lunching this game after all, Pizza?

[landlubber]

Reserving a spot. :bow:

[scottishranger]

In if it starts. Looks really interesting

[classical_hero]

This is interesting, but we should wait for the new Year to start this and wait for some of the Capo fatigue to go away.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh yeah, this isn't starting until spring or whatever.

[El Barto]

Erm, classical and me live in the Southern Hemisphere, so it's spring here right now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

OMG, this game just got a rather excellent character added to it.

It made me squee. There's going to be a special role in this game which might just capture your attention, and no, he's not a shyster. :laugh4:

This could very well be my favorite special role I've created to date, and that includes Renata's Mace Windu in ATPG Mafia II with the item collection mission.

[Montmorency]

Is it Ben Reich?

[El Barto]

Please don't tell me you're putting Frau Blücher into the game…

[classical_hero]

Erm, classical and me live in the Southern Hemisphere, so it's spring here right now.

Actually it is summer here in Australia, since we start the seasons at the start of the month.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Please don't tell me you're putting Frau Blücher into the game…


Who or what is a Fraublucher?

[Jarema]

look here:
http://www.snopes.com/movies/films/blucher.asp

[Zack]

Pizza -- I obviously can't speak for others, but on paper, this game looks (and always has looked) like the second-most-amazing game ever (behind Resident Evil, of course). Note I said on paper. After Capo, I realized that I really don't like huge games. If it had fewer players, I would love to play. 100 players, though, is a big turn-off to me.

[Kagemusha]

Actually in this game there seems to be so many dimensions that a huge crowd should not hurt the game so much.I am definitely interested.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hey guys-

This thing is getting redesigned (very very similar to what it is now) and I would VERY VERY MUCH like to have some "beta testers" so to speak.

You'd be privy to game mechanic information that will be public knowledge anyway, I just need you guys to tell me if the game seems balanced, playable, fun, not too complicated, but still deep enough for all to enjoy, and more specifically, if there's enough fun stuff that networkers and loners and small-group people alike can all enjoy. And if the game won't be broken by ahem.... no-shows.


VOLUNTEERS NOW. :whip:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza -- I obviously can't speak for others, but on paper, this game looks (and always has looked) like the second-most-amazing game ever (behind Resident Evil, of course). Note I said on paper. After Capo, I realized that I really don't like huge games. If it had fewer players, I would love to play. 100 players, though, is a big turn-off to me.


I doubt I will get 100 players, firstly.

Secondly I agree, 100 is too many. I'll cap it around where the other Capo games were. 70-80 max. I'll have reserve players to cover for dropouts.

It's still going to be a large/huge game, though.

I'd like to sell you on a few things, though. This game is shifting focus away from being a classical mafia game, in which the town and the mafia are mortal enemies, and the focus is on killing the other factions to win. This game will be more about character growth, and plotting different strategies/routes to victory than simply murdering everyone.

Since I've been sitting on this game for a year, and I've had experiences since then which have given me new perspectives and ideas, I can safely say that this game WILL be a different experience than what you'd expect after Capo.

This is not going to be a 17-murder per night kind of game. The mafia will have more interesting things to do than murder, unless they're at war with another mafia family or feel threatened by the town. The town will have more interesting things to do than form 10 vigilante teams.

This will ALSO shift focus away from having bunches of attack and defense teams for the purposes of character growth like Capo. This will be a more individualist game, or it will involve smaller groups of folks whose skills and money reserves complement one another.

There will also be more protection for the identities of mafia dons and serial killers, who will be very difficult to catch through brute force spreadsheet style solves.

Detectives will not be overpowered, and will follow a capo-like system.



I am going to outline my new vision for this game in an updated thread with a mission statement followed by a detailed sheet of information showing what I'm changing, why, and essentially how the game works.

This game will basically have an instruction manual and basic how-to guide. The rules will be common sense, but given the nature of the game being so non-vanilla, the rules will be rather thick reading. More for reference.

The BIG BAD rules will be brief, to the point, and posted before the mechanics-related rules. Ok?



New thread will pick up where this one leaves off. Redesign is underway! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?139411-The-Big-New-Yorker-2012-Relaunch)