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PatrickNeil
11-11-2002, 22:01
Has anyone edited "ProjectileStats.txt" yet? When the patch is installed it turns up in the main folder. Seems to allow projectiles to be edited. I've wanted to make like, a missle launcher or something, and this seem to have everything one would need.

Just wondering if anyones tested this file out yet, and to get the disucssion on it going.

Patrick

V'ger
11-11-2002, 22:27
Hi,

Yes, I've changed a few things in there. Not sure if all of them work correctly or not, yet. I upped the range of bows, longbows, trebuchets and mangonels. I also changed it so that trebs and mangs can pivot. That part works, I know.

Kraxis
11-12-2002, 01:38
Take care when upping the range of the longbows.

I upped them to 7500 (well 120 meters is not much, 150 meters much better), but then the Longbowmen could not angle the arrows high enough to actually fire them. So they walked a short distance and tried again, again and again. So I set the Velocity to 180 (up from 150) that flattened the trajectory a bit.

I also upped the shortbows and the mounted bows to 5500.

Upped the LB Accuracy to 0.75 (from 0.6) and Lethality to 0.95 (up from 0.63).
Normal bows Accuracy to 0.70 and Letality to 0.75.
Mounted bows Accuracy to 0.6 (from 0.4) and Letality to 0.75.
But I did this just today so I haven't really noticed too much of a difference, but the range is good.

Also gave both Nahptas and javelins a slight up in range so they actually can be used with Skirmish on.

I also gave all dedicated archers 48 arrows (up from 28) and hybrid units (such as Ottomans and Jannisary Inf) stayed at 28.

Fearless
11-13-2002, 12:34
what file do I look in to increase the arrows?

V'ger
11-14-2002, 11:08
Hi,

You'll find ammo (arrows) in the crusader_prod11.txt file. Just look for ammo and then edit the appropriate units.

GilJaysmith
11-14-2002, 11:22
A couple of notes on the projectiles file:

Range is the range within which the shooting cursor turns green (modified by the relative height of the firing unit and the target point). If the shooting cursor is green then the unit can attempt to fire, but all that means is that the individual men start to look for targets and firing solutions.

Velocity is what determines the actual maximum range. If I remember rightly, the maximum range is the velocity squared and then divided by four, or thereabouts.

In practice we use Range to limit the firing range of projectiles which are fired at high speed: compare the stats for arrows and crossbow bolts to see this in action.

TryHigh determines whether the firer can try a plunging shot if the flat shot is blocked. (For most shots there are two firing solutions, one flat and one high, either side of 45 degrees).

The comment about minAngle and maxAngle is wrong... it says that 64 is straight up, but actually these numbers are in degrees, so 0 is flat and 90 is straight up. (We have numerous internal camera and angle systems - one comment in the source code reads "Murder on the Orientation Express" - and one of them translates a full circle into 256 units, thus 90 degrees is 64 units.)

Any other questions, fire away (ahem).

Gil ~ CA

Fearless
11-14-2002, 11:40
Thank you V'ger looks like I shall be a little busy this weekend tweaking the projectiles. I have always felt that the casulties were rather low. A thankyou also Giljaysmith for your threepence worth

Caledfwlch
11-14-2002, 13:27
Increased the longbows rate of fire a little. Apparently, at their longer range, a good longbowman could have up to four arrows in the air at once.
Don't forget, these guys had to train on a daily basis by law during peacetime.

Fearless
11-14-2002, 14:09
Hey Caledfwlch I see your a Senior Patron......How come with only 15 posts. Who did you Bribe?

Kraxis
11-14-2002, 14:42
Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ Nov. 14 2002,04:22)]Range is the range within which the shooting cursor turns green (modified by the relative height of the firing unit and the target point). If the shooting cursor is green then the unit can attempt to fire, but all that means is that the individual men start to look for targets and firing solutions.

Velocity is what determines the actual maximum range. If I remember rightly, the maximum range is the velocity squared and then divided by four, or thereabouts.

In practice we use Range to limit the firing range of projectiles which are fired at high speed: compare the stats for arrows and crossbow bolts to see this in action.

TryHigh determines whether the firer can try a plunging shot if the flat shot is blocked. (For most shots there are two firing solutions, one flat and one high, either side of 45 degrees).

The comment about minAngle and maxAngle is wrong... it says that 64 is straight up, but actually these numbers are in degrees, so 0 is flat and 90 is straight up. (We have numerous internal camera and angle systems - one comment in the source code reads "Murder on the Orientation Express" - and one of them translates a full circle into 256 units, thus 90 degrees is 64 units.)

Any other questions, fire away (ahem).

Gil ~ CA
Thanks Gil... Now I know I can set the LB Velocity to 175... Would prefer that as 180 is far too fast, and a far too shallow angle.

But what do you mean about comparing teh stats for arrows and crossbow bolts? It is possible to send bolts out to a range of 15600, what that what you meant?

About try high... when does that apply? In melee for instance or does friendly units not count as something blockin? 57 degrees is not much, it would send normal bows (at 5000) out to a range of about 4000...

Caledfwlch
11-14-2002, 14:59
Don't know Fearless, still quite chuffed though. At least now I can take a more active part in the Dungeon. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Lord Krazy
11-14-2002, 15:00
Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ Nov. 14 2002,04:22)]The comment about minAngle and maxAngle is wrong... it says that 64 is straight up, but actually these numbers are in degrees, so 0 is flat and 90 is straight up. (We have numerous internal camera and angle systems - one comment in the source code reads "Murder on the Orientation Express" - and one of them translates a full circle into 256 units, thus 90 degrees is 64 units.)

Any other questions, fire away (ahem).

Gil ~ CA
Gil,
when you say it's wrong, do you mean
that if I put 90 I will get 90 degrees?

Or do you mean the 64 will give me
straight up and just the definition
is faulty in that it does not explain this?


Thanks
LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I hope this one hits home. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Btw is this a real word "computationally" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Puzz3D
11-14-2002, 23:01
Kraxis,

Opps. Edited after clarification by GilJaysmith below.

Kraxis
11-15-2002, 00:30
Yeah I remember sevearal battles where I found bodies far behind the battleareas (in STW).

I kind of expected the Arbs to make kills behind the targets as well, while not as bad. But I don't seem to see any kills in numbers more than 3 if the target is not intended. Behind the target I have yet to see kills, so perhaps there is a perameter that lowers lethality beyond the target.

I must say I'm rather sad that the Longbows have to have such a high Velocity, it lowers their lethality... I thought it would go up, but apparently not...

I did a test with a fully shielded Hospitaller Foot Knights unit. That was with speed 200, and all the arrows hit a very low angle, and because of the increased Accuracy I could hear a massive *CLANG* every time a volley hit. That made me wonder if the Lethality was too small, as only one or two would fall every time.

By the way, were the Longbows lowered in rate to make them more durable? The 4 cycles of animations is the same for all bows.

Puzz3D
11-15-2002, 06:26
Kraxis,

I think lethality is a constant. You might get reduced effectiveness of archers at short range as you raise the speed parameter. That was what happened in WE/MI, due to the tendency of the archer to overshoot the target on low trajectories. At long range, you have reduced kills because the positional error due to accuracy is greater. I think you have to increase the accuracy to maintain the same kills/volley at longer range. That will help make up for the lost effectiveness at short range as well.

Kraxis
11-15-2002, 17:00
Well, my tests have showed that my modded Longbows now kill a lot more than before in the span of the unit closing with them, but not impossibly much. The range obviously adds a lot to this but I changed the other stats enough to let every volley kill as many as before (and perhaps more).
One positive sideeffect of the higher speed is lesser overshooting of advancing units.

But I'm sure that Lethality is the way to increase the killrate if you up speed, that is where the x-bows and arbs are vastly different from bows. Also it is limited how much you can up accuracy, you can ony make every arrow hit, but you can theoretically make every arrow kill two men.

Puzz3D
11-15-2002, 17:22
Kraxis,

How can one arrow kill two men?

GilJaysmith
11-15-2002, 18:53
There's no limit on how far a projectile will travel if it has a high enough velocity. This and the value of gravity and the angle at which it's fired determine its trajectory; the first solid thing it hits will stop it.

E.g. crossbows have a range of 5000 and a velocity of 250 whereas longbows have a range of 6000 and a velocity of 150. Therefore, longbow units will be able to start firing earlier at an approaching target, but crossbow bolts will travel further. On the other hand, longbows can 'try high', while crossbows can't. So if there's something in the way, e.g. a building or wall, longbows can try a high angle.

(To clarify for whoever asked this: you use 90 to mean straight up and 0 to mean flat in these angles. The comment is wrong in the sense that the projectile code doesn't use the 0-64 angle system, it uses proper degrees.)

When someone wants to take a shot, they try the 'low' firing solution. The code projects 24 frames along this solution to see what it hits. If it hits the intended target (or doesn't hit anything) then it assumes this solution will be OK, and takes the shot. If it hits anything during this 24-frame lookahead, the shooter will evaluate the 'high' firing solution if the projectile type allows it. The same lookahead is performed and if the projectile still doesn't look like it'll hit the target then the shooter doesn't take the shot. This is why you often see shooters going into their 'firing' animation but nothing being fired.

The 'low' firing solution relies on using the projectile's speed to get it to the target before it hits the ground. The 'high' solution relies on 'plunging' the projectile. The shooter will only use a firing solution if it's within the min and max angles for that projectile type, e.g. longbowmen won't fire any steeper than 57 degrees into the air.

Just a little glimpse of the magic :)

Gil ~ CA

Puzz3D
11-15-2002, 20:39
Ok. Thanks for clarification on that Gil.

Lord Krazy
11-16-2002, 00:00
Quote[/b] ](To clarify for whoever asked this: you use 90 to mean straight up and 0 to mean flat in these angles. The comment is wrong in the sense that the projectile code doesn't use the 0-64 angle system, it uses proper degrees.)

Thank's Gil

Lord Krazy
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Lord Krazy
11-16-2002, 00:04
Quote[/b] (Puzz3D @ Nov. 15 2002,10:22)]Kraxis,

How can one arrow kill two men?
Is this a trick question http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Puzz3D
11-17-2002, 15:14
Lord Krazy,

Kraxis said one arrow can kill two men. I don't see how that is possible.

Whitey
11-17-2002, 17:04
unless the stats are changed to arrows penetrate humans (like seige weapon missiles)

Lord Krazy
11-18-2002, 05:18
Quote[/b] (Puzz3D @ Nov. 17 2002,08:14)]Lord Krazy,

Kraxis said one arrow can kill two men. I don't see how that is possible.
He said
Quote[/b] ]you can theoretically make every arrow kill two men.
I don't know what the theory is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Krazy
11-18-2002, 05:22
Btw it says the name is only for a reference
in regards to the projectile.
This to me, implies you can change it.

Also has anyone used ningastars?

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Latro
11-18-2002, 13:55
So where is the link between 'MTLG' in the crusaders file and the table entry for 'mountedlongbow' in projectile stats.txt ? How are these two coupled?

Lord Krazy
11-18-2002, 17:55
Quote[/b] (Latro @ Nov. 18 2002,06:55)]So where is the link between 'MTLG' in the crusaders file and the table entry for 'mountedlongbow' in projectile stats.txt ? How are these two coupled?
If you open it in excel
row 53
mountedlongbow

after shortbow
before arquebus

It is the fourth row of stats.
they seem to be linked by order not by name.
so you could call it a neutron bomb if you wanted.
This is conjecture based on the what it said
about names in the names description.
if you want a real answere wait for Gil
to reply.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

GilJaysmith
11-18-2002, 21:29
Quote[/b] (Lord Krazy @ Nov. 18 2002,10:55)]It is the fourth row of stats.
they seem to be linked by order not by name.
so you could call it a neutron bomb if you wanted.
Yep, the projectile stats are in the same order as the projectile type enum, so MLTG (for example) translates to a particular row in projectilestats.txt. Swap the rows around to get some amusing results.

Gil ~ CA

Kraellin
11-18-2002, 22:24
and if you really want a hoot, raise the range of naptha throwers to about 20000 and their elevation angle to about 75 and increase significantly their destructive perimeter. nothing like good old napalm to thwart an enemy :)

K.

scsscsfanfan
11-19-2002, 00:22
will there be anyway to add new porjectile types?

GilJaysmith
11-19-2002, 11:17
Quote[/b] (scsscsfanfan @ Nov. 18 2002,17:22)]will there be anyway to add new porjectile types?
Afraid not. The hardcoding of the order also means that there's no way to extend it :( Not very mod-friendly... sorry.

Gil ~ CA

PatrickNeil
12-21-2002, 01:42
Bump for SmokWawelski. Maybe sticky-worthy? I dunno.

Patrick

Lion King
12-21-2002, 02:53
most certainly sticky it plz
i dont know how you CA guys say its not mod-friendly it took me 15 minutes to figure out how to make a mod, change all those units and projectile stats, textures sounds and campaign map it is VERY mod friendly, all those txt files have comments with loads of detail, they are a modding manual
of course, there are a few questions to be raised:
where is the file with the images of the arrows/naphta/javelins/explosions?
is there a way to make arrows/cannonballs explode like naphta bombs? i really need some modern artillery and the grenades launchers i made simply wont do alone

Lion King
12-21-2002, 03:01
oh, BTW, here is a shameless rip of what i posted in another thread, it might be helpful...
be aware i was talking about how to improve an archer

by editing the projectilestats.txt, you can change:

-range, how far can the unit shoot 5000 units=100 metres, you will also need greater "Velocity" for longer ranges

-Velocity, how fast does the missile travel. this makes the projectiles more accurate when shooting moving units, especially at longer distances

-Accuracy, the closer to 1, better (good for reducing friendly fire in melee battles)

-Lethality, one of the most important factors in the efficiency of a weapon. multiply this value by 18 (bydefault, not always i i will explain) and you get the percentage of a kill if the arrow hits a soldier.

-Power, measured in hit points taken when hit, used mainly for siege weapons. Even if your archers cannot hit walls, this makes it easier to kill kings, generals and unit commanders and lieutenants (the guys with the little triangular flags), kings/generals can take 10-30 hits (depending on luck, vices, virtues etc..) commanders have about 5-8 and lieutenants 2-4. most normal troops have 1 HP.

-Armour mod, the effectiveness of armour against this projectile, 1 is 100% and 0, 0%. For example, a knight has armour value 6, and the armour mod of the arrow that hits it is 0.5, the the damage/killing calculations will consider the armour as being 3.

-Reload time, pretty explanatory, i think it is in seconds, but im not sure

-Shoot immediated, if no ("n") the unit will have to reload before firing, not after. doesn’t make that much difference for archer, who have short reload times

-Reload moving, again, not much effect for archer for the same reason, defines whether the units can reload on the run

-Isgun, if yes only the first rank will shoot, then revolve so the others behind can have their go, leave it at no for maximum efficiency

-Try high, it is already yes, so they can shoot target of their line of sight by aiming at high angles (a hill or wall in-between)

-FireInRain: Can the weapon fire in the rain. Doesn't apply to artillery

-MinAngle: Minimum angle the weapon can fire at. 90 = vertically up.

-MaxAngle: Maximum angle the weapon can fire at. 90 = vertically up

-AccColDec: y if this projecitle should always accurate collision detection against models. This is computationally expensive

-LaunchFX: Name of sound effect to use when artillery fires. Note this is a name internal to the program and does not refer to a wav file

-Model: Name of the model used for an artillery piece

-bounce: y if the projectile can bounce

-minCrew: The minimum number of crew needed for an artillery piece

-numSoldiers: Affects loss of effectiveness as crew is reduced. Must be greater than minCrew
Effectiveness = SoldiersInUnit / (numSoldiers - minCrew)

-TurnSpeed: Turning rate of artillery pieces that can turn. Set to 0 for pieces that cannot turn
-ArtilleryReloadTime: Reload time of artillery. A value of 140 indicated 10 seconds

-FieldOfFire: The horizontal cone of fire for an artillery piece. It must turn (if it can) to engage targets outside this arc

-SafeShots: The number of shots an artillery piece can fire before it has a chance of exploding

-Safety: The chance of a gun exploding with each shot once it shot more than "safeshots". Multiply by 100 for a percentage

-HitXXX: The 5 hit values define what happens when the projectile hits various items

-blast radius: when it hits something, the projectiles (arrows) will "blow up", killing troops in a radius described in the field 50 units = 1 meter

-BlastKillChance: The percentage kill chance of a soldier in the blast radius being killed.

now this is theoretical stuff, based on my observations:

-to determine if the arrow hits a soldier, the program will atke into account the heigh and radius values the unit targeted has in the crusaders_unit_prod11.txt file.
-if it is a positive hit, then the chance in percent to kill a soldier is the lethality value multiplied by 18. this is the base chance, but it will be affected bt the unit's armour value, shield size and shield modifier value, all of those can be found in crusaders_unit_prod11.txt.
thus bigger units are easier to hit, but that doesnt mean easier to kill, as if they have heavy armour, a large/pavise shield and a full modifier (1) and get hit by low lethality arrows they will be VERY hard to kill.

Kraxis
12-22-2002, 19:20
Ahhh... I have to return here.

When I said one arrow could theretically kill two men it counted on the arrow penetrating the first man. Not that I expected it could at any time, but you could make the Lethality go up to make it a kill every time as well. It was more a statement of Lethality is more important til kill than accuracy than it was a statement of fact.

I have modded the ninjastar to be a composite bow, works very nicely.

Lion King
12-22-2002, 23:23
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Dec. 22 2002,12:20)]Ahhh... I have to return here.

When I said one arrow could theretically kill two men it counted on the arrow penetrating the first man. Not that I expected it could at any time, but you could make the Lethality go up to make it a kill every time as well. It was more a statement of Lethality is more important til kill than accuracy than it was a statement of fact.

I have modded the ninjastar to be a composite bow, works very nicely.
What do you write on the projectile value in the crusaders_unit_prod11.txt?
I only see normal stuff like GREN, XBOW, etc. no ninja star...

Saracen
12-29-2002, 18:53
I wanted to tinker with the gunpowder units so I increesed the accuracy on arquebus and handgun and am doing some testing. That definitly changes the killing power. Got to move it back down to something more reasonable. I see something in the list down on the bottom called bullet_from_model. Is there something I need to do with that? What is that? Also I want to now tinker with the artillery. I noticed their accuracy was much better in the default list already, yet there is a wide variation in the left-right spread of the shots which makes them damn near useless. What factor do I change to "reduce" this variation?

Kraxis
12-29-2002, 19:23
Lion, I expect you have madded the ninjastar stats so you can use them.

All you have to do is add NINJ in the correct spot for the unit you want to have the ninjastar stats.

GilJaysmith
12-29-2002, 19:26
Quote[/b] (Lion King @ Dec. 20 2002,19:53)]most certainly sticky it plz
i dont know how you CA guys say its not mod-friendly it took me 15 minutes to figure out how to make a mod, change all those units and projectile stats, textures sounds and campaign map it is VERY mod friendly, all those txt files have comments with loads of detail, they are a modding manual
of course, there are a few questions to be raised:
where is the file with the images of the arrows/naphta/javelins/explosions?
is there a way to make arrows/cannonballs explode like naphta bombs? i really need some modern artillery and the grenades launchers i made simply wont do alone
Can't add new stuff though, was what I meant.

The projectile textures are probably on textures\men\xplopage.lbm

Don't think you can make projectiles explosive... I think that's hardcoded, we create a different class for some projectiles rather than taking it all from the projectile stats: another shortcoming.

Lion King
12-30-2002, 00:55
Quote[/b] (Saracen @ Dec. 29 2002,11:53)]I wanted to tinker with the gunpowder units so I increesed the accuracy on arquebus and handgun and am doing some testing. That definitly changes the killing power. Got to move it back down to something more reasonable. I see something in the list down on the bottom called bullet_from_model. Is there something I need to do with that? What is that? Also I want to now tinker with the artillery. I noticed their accuracy was much better in the default list already, yet there is a wide variation in the left-right spread of the shots which makes them damn near useless. What factor do I change to "reduce" this variation?
Stuff_from_model is stuff that is shot by castle towers AFAIK and check my topic above for more info on how to improve missile units

Saracen
12-30-2002, 18:56
I'm afraid I don't see in your post what might effect the left-right-long-short fall of artillery???

TosaInu
12-30-2002, 19:21
The ninjastar stat from projectile.txt can be used in crusader-unit.txt by using NINJ for projectile (wordpad edit). You actually see a normal arrow fired from a archer when using this one.

There are also bolt from model, arrow from model and bullet from model. I expect you could use those stats for a unit too.

NINJ adds a 4th, arrow from model would be nice to add as 5th. How should it be referred to in unit-prod? I tried AFM, ARFM and the like, but no go.

Kraxis
12-30-2002, 23:03
Ahhh Tosa you bring a valid point there...

I would love to let the Mongols have very different stats from the others and the arrow_from_model would be a perfect candidate.
All we need now is for Gil to come around and tell how to do it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

GilJaysmith
12-31-2002, 20:47
Quote[/b] (Saracen @ Dec. 30 2002,11:56)]I'm afraid I don't see in your post what might effect the left-right-long-short fall of artillery???
The ranging-in done by artillery is handled in code; it's affected by the honour of the crew, and isn't moddable.

Saracen
01-01-2003, 06:31
What impact would increasing accuracy have? Can you take it above 1.0? It is one thing to range for a few shots but I find the artillery as a whole rediculous. It is of little use as it is currently configured. Catapults get many more kills than anything involving gunpowder. If you can't hit a massed army of thousands of troops after a couple of shots something is wrong IMO.

Lord Krazy
01-01-2003, 16:47
Quote[/b] (Saracen @ Dec. 31 2002,23:31)]What impact would increasing accuracy have? Can you take it above 1.0? It is one thing to range for a few shots but I find the artillery as a whole rediculous. It is of little use as it is currently configured. Catapults get many more kills than anything involving gunpowder. If you can't hit a massed army of thousands of troops after a couple of shots something is wrong IMO.
Indeed something is wrong
You should shoot your gunners http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Lion King
01-02-2003, 07:09
Quote[/b] (Saracen @ Dec. 31 2002,23:31)]Catapults get many more kills than anything involving gunpowder. If you can't hit a massed army of thousands of troops after a couple of shots something is wrong IMO.
Thats when my "Operation Upshot-Knothole" mod comes in http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
My beautiful cannon "Grable" fires a nuke at the enemy lines. In my test battle the enemies almost as many casualties as Hiroshima, with one shot. i was lucky my crew wasnt wiped out by the blast as they were only a couple miles away.
i am going to add the towers pretty soon. If you dont know what i mean, google for it
Seriously, its pretty cool http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Lion King
01-02-2003, 07:20
actually, if i find out how to rescale the explosions, i might even do some nuclear mushroom-like explosions

King David
01-10-2003, 22:32
Has anyone figured out how to make FIRE ARROWS yet ? If so let me know how to do it..

Kraxis
01-13-2003, 20:03
King David, just wait until the x-pac.

King David
01-14-2003, 03:57
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Jan. 13 2003,13:03)]King David, just wait until the x-pac.
Did you acomplish it ? My Sagitarii (Archers) could use them.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

King David
01-15-2003, 01:57
Just created some Fire arrows and Javelins for MTW. Go and get it here:
http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/

Mr Frost
01-15-2003, 14:32
I would like to know the name to use in Prod11.txt for both Arrow_from_model and Bolt_From_Model so I can use the arrow one for the advanced mounted archers {Mamlukes , Mongol Horse Archers etc} and the bolt one for mounted crossbows {so they wont have the full dismounted accuracy , just like mounted bows are less accurate} .

Gil ... ? Pretty please with T.J. crack-ho s on top http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

For interest , I modded accuracy up to .7 all foot bows , .6 mounted , .8 crossbows , .85 arbs . .25 jav , .05 napthas {in 60 man units http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif } , .1 for guns {makes a difference} , 1 for balistas {makes bugger-all difference} , lethality to .75 for Longbows , gave crossbows a reload time of 10 and alowed mounted bows to reload moving and used ninjastars for foot composite bows {as opposed to the less powerful ones used mounted} with accuracy .7 , lethality .75 and a .75 armourpeircing mod . I'll play with the velocities untill I'm satisfyed .

I need to be able to use those ****_from_model stats for mounted archery .

DemonArchangel
01-31-2003, 02:05
where is the proj. stats txt file located?

RangerLee
02-03-2003, 01:56
Hey guys, I have been building a Cemetary Ridge map in an attempt to recreat picketts charge. After seeing this post I have more hope seeing as the gunpowder units as they stand are usless in simulating a civil war battle.

Does anyone have a sample of a modified rifleman (sorry i do not know the name off hand) and handgunner file that I could take a look at and perhaps use? As well a modified cannon would be great as well.

If possible they could be sent to lforrest@cntus.jnj.com

Lord Krazy
02-03-2003, 08:25
We done a musket with bayonet as a sample.

TheLords_Musket_V2.zip


It should be on the org downloads.
I'm not sure as I never downloaded it.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

This is a graphic example of to get the effect.
If you want to change the projectile stats
well thats easier just improve the arqubus stats.
Take all the armour bonus away
and they will drop like flies.
I'v noticed by having all range units on the battle field works out ok for the kind of simulation you want.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Krazy
02-03-2003, 08:31
btw the rate of fire of the arquebus as it is,
in the game, roughly works out at the same rate of fire
you get from an 18th century musket so don't change that
unless you want to mod the springfield, I would suggest.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

RangerLee
02-03-2003, 22:56
Hey krazy thanks for the reply, I am going to dl the musket with bayonet and give it a shot

Have you seen any mods that put a musketman on horseback?

Lord Krazy
02-04-2003, 02:47
Now that you mention it yes.
We did one, yet again in conjunction with Welly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
I can't remember what I called it.
It's part of the request to community mod
TEST_TheLords_69_Units.zip
It on the beta downloads section

The bif is in a seperate download.
it should be mentioned in the 69_units download
I'm going to bed now so
tell me about it tommorow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

RangerLee
02-04-2003, 04:57
You and your boys are the sh*t, this will work real well in my Gettysburg battle maps I am making. Day 1 involved successful staling action of union calvery so that the North would hold the high ground. Now I can use those units, once again kudos to you.

As for the rate of fire, I do have to lower the reload time a little bit. The standard issue rifleman during that time was able to fire off 6 shots in one minute. Currently the units are lucky to get off 2 shots. So I am assuming the rate of fire value in the projectile.txt is in seconds.

This seems right though, the black powder weapons depected in MTW were very primitive and slow loading. Things improved much by the mid-late 1800's, even English military advisors in the south were impressed on the leathality of american firearms in that period.

RangerLee
02-04-2003, 05:00
As of yet I have not found either one of the files. I am still looking though.

Lord Krazy
02-04-2003, 20:43
I see what you mean http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/

TheLords_69_units are here

http://www.3ddownloads.com/strateg....MTWbeta (http://www.3ddownloads.com/strategy-gaming/totalwar/Z_Beta_Files/MTWbeta/)

the first version of the musket is here.

LK_musket_v1

the bifs should be here for the cavalry too.

MEN_BIFS_FOR_Lords_mod

I'll find them all and let you know asap:D

LK

Lord Krazy
02-04-2003, 21:54
http://www.3ddownloads.com/strategy-gaming/totalwar/MTW/Stats

or
http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Downloads.shtml:for downloads

(It's working know btw)


This is where you can get
TheLords_musket_v2

We are making a Napoleonic mod which will
have similarities to the kind of stuff needed
for ACW.I can make you yanky and rebel flags
and icons if you like.I'v got quite a bit of that stuff
here to use as base images.I were planning on
doing some stuff for ACW anyway.

With regards to the stats for the musket
seen as you won't need arrows and axes
and such you can have several different guns.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

RangerLee
02-04-2003, 22:48
Lord Krazy I bow before your awesome and awe inspiring skills. To top all that off you have been more then willing to help me out beyond what most would, thanks again.

I look forward to finishing this first battle and would love to send it to you to check out. Two sets of battle flags would be great to have, up until now I figured I would start small and use what was available with only a modified projectile stats but with what you have shown me I can do even more. So far my terrain is coming out very well, I even have emitsburg road and the farm house set up with a plush green ground with the wheat colored weeds. The "angle" is difficult since I do not have any low brick walls to work with so for now the imagination will have to be used.

BTW I cant wait to see your Napoleonic Mod, my thing right now is to make 3 battle maps for each day of gettysburg. Seeing what you are able to do your mod will be something that brings a tear to ones eye

Lord Krazy
02-05-2003, 18:43
Quote[/b] (RangerLee @ Feb. 04 2003,15:48)]

Quote[/b] ]Lord Krazy I bow before your awesome and awe inspiring skills

Get up and don't be silly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif



Quote[/b] ]To top all that off you have been more then willing to help me out beyond what most would,

They let me work on the basis that I do that for work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Quote[/b] ]I look forward to finishing this first battle and would love to send it to you to check out.

That would be nice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


Quote[/b] ]BTW I cant wait to see your Napoleonic Mod, my thing right now is to make 3 battle maps for each day of gettysburg. Seeing what you are able to do your mod will be something that brings a tear to ones eye

I know it's made me cry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

Don't hold your breath or you'll go as blue as
a yankies britches.

BTW the AI won't defend set positions
so it should be made to play as the Union.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/lordkrazy/images/4-picture1.jpg

RangerLee
02-09-2003, 20:03
Krazy, one last question is there away to set the amount of ammo. I have decreased the reload time a little bit but while defending the units always seem to run out of ammo to quick.

Lord Krazy
02-10-2003, 03:47
Quote[/b] (RangerLee @ Feb. 09 2003,13:03)]Krazy, one last question is there away to set the amount of ammo. I have decreased the reload time a little bit but while defending the units always seem to run out of ammo to quick.
Yes, this is in prod11.txt.

Under this heading.
"Stats and general info about this trooptype"

In this list you will find AMMO(10)

change the 10 to what ever you want.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Jon von
02-22-2003, 21:27
What about the "torch" line in projectile stats?

Lord Krazy
02-23-2003, 09:50
Quote[/b] (Jon von @ Feb. 22 2003,14:27)]What about the "torch" line in projectile stats?
At a guess I would say it was for the torch http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

You can change the stats and the lbm but that's it.


It's used by the men to burn things.

What is you want to know anyway? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Jon von
02-24-2003, 16:11
I could mod the ninjastar line and assign it to muslim archers unit: it's known that muslim archers were better than their west counterparts. Or could I assign it to genoese sailors: they were crossbowmen, they were very well trained shooters (= more accuracy than standard Xbowmen) but they had a smaller crossbow (= less lethality).
any suggestion?
Could the torch be used as fire arrows?

econ21
02-24-2003, 16:17
Jon von - I would say giving the Moslems composite bows was much more important than worrying about the Genovese sailors. They are much more significant in the grand scheme of things (ie many more troops are at stake) and do need something to help offset their lighter troops.

Jon von
02-24-2003, 23:01
can anyone post the list of untis with composite bows?
thanx

econ21
02-25-2003, 15:04
I would distinguish between horse and foot archers. The various types of horse archers probably all had composite bows, but I would make these shorter range than the foot ones (for gameplay, I'd probably leave the horse archers inferior to simple foot short bows and maybe leave them as they are). The foot archers with composite bows are probably all the Islamic and Byzantine units. It may be simpler to think which archers do not have composite bows (vanilla archers, Genovese archers, not much else I can think of off hand...).

Lord Krazy
02-25-2003, 20:06
Quote[/b] (Jon von @ Feb. 24 2003,09:11)]I could mod the ninjastar line and assign it to muslim archers unit: it's known that muslim archers were better than their west counterparts. Or could I assign it to genoese sailors: they were crossbowmen, they were very well trained shooters (= more accuracy than standard Xbowmen) but they had a smaller crossbow (= less lethality).
any suggestion?
Could the torch be used as fire arrows?

Quote[/b] ]I could mod the ninjastar line and assign it to muslim archers unit

Which is handy as no unit in the game uses it.
This means you will not have to worry about
effecting other units.


Quote[/b] ]Could the torch be used as fire arrows?

Yes it could.
But the torch is used by ALL units
so all units will throw fire arrows.
As this is not the effect you want then
the answere is NO.This is coded

Jon von
02-27-2003, 04:38
Are you sure that byz had comp bows?

Mr Frost
02-27-2003, 14:11
Quote[/b] (Jon von @ Feb. 24 2003,09:11)]I could mod the ninjastar line and assign it to muslim archers unit: it's known that muslim archers were better than their west counterparts. Or could I assign it to genoese sailors: they were crossbowmen, they were very well trained shooters (= more accuracy than standard Xbowmen) but they had a smaller crossbow (= less lethality).
any suggestion?
Could the torch be used as fire arrows?
You could , but as you only have one spare stat , you might want to simply use the standard crossbow stat and simply assume that the extra kills that can be attributed to the extra power of the full sized crossbow are actually happening because the Genoese Sailors are shooting more accurately {sort of susspend your disbelief on the issue} .

I did not realise the little fellows were historically crossbowmen I assume they were made archers so they could be obtaind in the Early Period {then the game is put out with a bug that allows crossbows to be made early anyhow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif} . I might mod them crossbow myself then . Thanks for the information http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Read my second repily in your Thread on what performance for crossbows and longbows . You will need to increase the velocity to 180 if you use those ranges .

Spino
03-06-2003, 23:32
Quote[/b] ]I could mod the ninjastar line and assign it to muslim archers unit: it's known that muslim archers were better than their west counterparts. Or could I assign it to genoese sailors: they were crossbowmen, they were very well trained shooters (= more accuracy than standard Xbowmen) but they had a smaller crossbow (= less lethality).
any suggestion?


Quote[/b] ]You could , but as you only have one spare stat , you might want to simply use the standard crossbow stat and simply assume that the extra kills that can be attributed to the extra power of the full sized crossbow are actually happening because the Genoese Sailors are shooting more accurately {sort of susspend your disbelief on the issue}.

I would sooner see you use that ninjastar weapon slot to create a generic compound bow for all archer units that historically used such weapons. I think it would be unfair to devote such a weapon solely to Muslim archer units but it makes perfect sense to give it to Janissary Archers and Infantry, Trebizond archers, Mongol cavalry, etc.

A quick solution would be to split the range, accuracy and velocity difference between a Longbow and a Shortbow, up the armor piercing capability a bit and voila.

Mr Frost
03-10-2003, 09:15
Quote[/b] (Spino @ Mar. 06 2003,16:32)]I would sooner see you use that ninjastar weapon slot to create a generic compound bow for all archer units that historically used such weapons. I think it would be unfair to devote such a weapon solely to Muslim archer units but it makes perfect sense to give it to Janissary Archers and Infantry, Trebizond archers, Mongol cavalry, etc.

A quick solution would be to split the range, accuracy and velocity difference between a Longbow and a Shortbow, up the armor piercing capability a bit and voila.
That's precisely what I did with the Ninjastars stat : I made it for composite bows .
I upped all infantry missiles accuracy a bit {they were not accurate enough for my liking} then modded Ninjastars draw length 25 {or whatever the standard for arrows is} , range 5500 , velocity 160 {and same velocity for Longbows} , accuracy .7 {same as for Short and Long Bows} , lethality .75 {same as I modded Longbows} , armour peircing .75 and so on .

I give them to some foot units {such as Jannisarys , Bulgarian Brigands , Trebizond Archers etc} and a very few cavalry {I can only remember giving them to Mongols , Mamluk Horse Archers and Sipahi of the Porte at present} . Some Cavalry archer units get Shortbow stats {such as Turcomans who were a cut above the basic standard} and have Mounted Longbow for the "Plain Vanilla" horse archers , Camel Jockies etc .

Spino
03-11-2003, 05:18
Quote[/b] ]That's precisely what I did with the Ninjastars stat : I made it for composite bows .
I upped all infantry missiles accuracy a bit {they were not accurate enough for my liking} then modded Ninjastars draw length 25 {or whatever the standard for arrows is} , range 5500 , velocity 160 {and same velocity for Longbows} , accuracy .7 {same as for Short and Long Bows} , lethality .75 {same as I modded Longbows} , armour peircing .75 and so on .

I give them to some foot units {such as Jannisarys , Bulgarian Brigands , Trebizond Archers etc} and a very few cavalry {I can only remember giving them to Mongols , Mamluk Horse Archers and Sipahi of the Porte at present} . Some Cavalry archer units get Shortbow stats {such as Turcomans who were a cut above the basic standard} and have Mounted Longbow for the "Plain Vanilla" horse archers , Camel Jockies etc .

LOL I did the same exact thing and used almost exactly the same values http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

However, I gave the Composite Bow to numerous units so I lowered the armor piercing ability to .85 instead of splitting the difference between the Short Bow and the Long Bow at .75. Had I only given this weapon to the Mongols I would have changed the value to .75 or better but it seems a tad too generous for your average Composite bow. Since the Accuracy and Lethality of the new Composite Bow (.6 & .63) is the same as the other infantry bows mounted units that wield this weapon will enjoy a considerable advantage over their counterparts.

Lastly, should I leave 'Try High' enabled (high angle shots) for the Composite Bow? As of right now the Short Bow is the only bow in MTW which cannot make high angle shots. Is this historical or even logical?

Here's a quick breakdown of who got what in my modifications:

SHORT BOW:
- Genoese Sailors
- Archers
- Desert Archers
- Turcoman Foot

COMPOSITE BOW:
- Trebizond Archers
- Bulgarian Brigands
- Janissary Bows
- Nizari
- Futuwwa
- Janissary Infantry
- Ottoman Infantry
- Golden Horde Warriors
- Hashishin

- Mamluk Horse Archers (completely justified as they were serious badasses http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )
- Byzantine Cavalry (I'm somewhat on the fence with these guys; they DO cost 400 and when dismounted turn into Trebizond Archers so...)
- Golden Horde Archers
- Sipahi of the Porte
- Boyars (better justifies their cost and gives them a much needed boost in the Late Era)

LONGBOW:
- Longbowmen (duh)

MOUNTED LONGBOW:
- Turcopole
- Berber Camel
- Turcoman Horse
- Horse Archers

If anyone disagrees with these changes and can back up their argument with historical and/or reasonable logic then by all means.... SAY SO

On a different note has anyone upped the range on Javelins and tested to see the effect is in battle? I rarely see javelin wielding infantry do much of anything in SP or MP games except get slaughtered. It seems that by the time they get close enough to use their javelins they get charged or run down, causing them to flee before they can let loose with a volley. This is especially problematic as the AI seems to purchase a fair number of javelin units in SP games. Spanish Jinetes on the other hand, are already pretty powerful as it is.

Let's hope CA gives us a few extra weapon slots for modding in VI

econ21
03-11-2003, 15:23
Spino,

What you did is interesting; I'm considering something similar. Was there a reason for giving the desert archers and Turcoman foot short bows? I view these as the main enemies of the Crusaders and understand they were armed with composite bows.

On a related point, I wonder if there is a case for upping the mounted longbow stats, as all the units essentially were using composite bows? I guess there should be some penalty relative to foot composite bows, as it is probably harder to aim and pull on horseback, but the outcome may be more comparable to foot shortbows.

There seems little objective data on the performance of the weapons, however, probably because so few bows survived from the period.

Simon

Spino
03-11-2003, 20:24
I am very reluctant to give Desert Archers Composite Bows simply because they offer the Muslim factions a superior alternative to plain vanilla Archers. Desert Archers possess slightly better Morale, superior Speed and even wield a Small Shield for protection. The drawbacks to Desert Archers are their preference for 4 row deep formations and they cost a paltry 25 florins more than regular Archers... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Since the Composite Bows I modeled do have some armor piercing capabilities I thought that would be a bit much for Desert Archers to have. I suppose giving the new Composite Bow to Turcoman Foot and Horse might be the sensible thing to do but those relatively inexpensive units would then enjoy the increased accuracy and armor piercing abilities that only elite mounted units now enjoy (Byzantine Cavalry excepted, and I'm still on the fence with respect to those guys). I was also tempted to give Short Bows to the inexpensive Ottoman Infantry but that would really put the AI controlled Turks at a disadvantage in Late Era games. What I really need is three more weapon slots so I can create a Mounted Composite Bow counterpart to the new Composite Bow (with lowered accuracy like the Mounted Longbow), and two non-armor piercing Composite Bows for both foot and mounted units.

On the javelin issue I increased the Range to 2000 and upped the Velocity to 90 and what a difference it made I set a bunch of Kerns against Murabitin and there was very little running back and forth without firing as with previous javelin exchanges. With the previous range of 1500 the AI was at a serious disadvantage with such troops because they are almost always in Skirmish mode and rarely ever got to work their magic in the face of a determined human opponent (for the most part they rarely got off the first volley before running away from their target) but now they can get off a volley or two before running to safety. Since 5000 distance units represents 100 meters then 2000 is not such a big deal. Perhaps 2000 might turn out to be too generous a distance but I must say those javelin exchanges I saw last night looked and felt right. In all fairness I did not do much testing but tonight I will create a series of battles that feature javelin units in a variety of situations.

Lord Krazy
03-14-2003, 00:59
With regard to using slots for
weapons they are not coded for.
When I stated that you could only use
the ones that fitted or were paired with certain animations
like arrows in arrow slots for example.
Well that's only if you want
to keep the original units
and graphics.

If you remove all the things you don't
want from the exploge.tga then you could make all the
arrows slots guns slots and no arrows will
show because you have removed
the graphic.
The torch could be made a gun that was
available to all units for example.

So if you are planning on removing weapons
and replacing them with other ones
and you don't care about loosing the old one
well you can do a lot more then.

I hope this is clearer
(as I wait for next confused email) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Mr Frost
03-14-2003, 07:58
I got around the Ottoman Infantry being weak with shortbows {instead of composite bows} by simply making them stronger . They seemed very little like their parchment description : well trained , well armed and armoured and able to match most other infantry . I increased their melee to 3 {I figure if they are well trained , then they should use their hand axes about as well as the Vikings} , defense to 4$ with sheild {well trained means in defensive skills also : parrying/blocking and they are supposed to be well armoured} and armour to 5$ with sheild {again , well armoured} then honour to 2 {well trained professionals have decent morale} and I think I increased their charge bonus to sit with the other improvements .
Now Ottoman Infantry fit their parchment description and what I understand of them in history ; they can hold their own in a pure infantry role in the late period {I'm modding from the base of Wes' Medmod IV 1.7 and I put them back in late period} so I can give then shortbows without weakening the Late Turks .
I figure not all composite bows are made equal : some will be well made and be powerful , but I figure cheap "government issue" for mere line infantry {Ottoman Infantry} might be only as powerful as short bows due to shoddy materials/quality control . They were just grunts afterall {as I percieve the was their masters looked on them} and not as lavishly equipted as the Jannisarys .

DemonArchangel
03-20-2003, 02:03
3 words: Naptha Grenade Launcher

Range: 9300
Velocity: 1000
BIG explosion

of course i modded back after seeing its sheer unfairness.