Napoleonic Mod [Archive]

Lord Krazy

03-10-2003, 17:13

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Mar. 09 2003,23:10)]LK,

What exactly are you planning on in terms of how far your going with this mod. What do you need help with -

1) creating more units
2) prod11/build13/projstats
3) images/icons/buildings (tech tree stuff)
4) loc/eng file changes
5) startpos file changes
6) a new campaign map
7) researching the Nap era

There may be a relatively easy way to do 1) above - creating new units (with different colours for, say, trousers, stripes, epaulettes, plumes etc ) based on your original 7 bifs (same ideas I had with the Lords Romans).

Enough people understand enough of the 3 files in 2) - but it still means a lot of changes to prod11 (in fact almost a complete rewrite).

Major changes to 3) will be required for a Nap mod 'cos it means changing almost everything in MTW so you'll need a few people working on this alone. Still, these changes can be ongoing over time as per Patrician.

If you planning major changes as per 4), 5) and 6) then let me know. A lot of this should be relatively straightforward now.

7) should be straightforward enough. Just a case of changing the prod files really to present more firepower and less melee differences.

Let me know what your planning and I'll see if I can assist in some of the parts - other parts I'll be steering well clear of http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Welly
Let me see what did you leave out ?

Nothing

Good

Making the new units we can do at at a reasonable pace.
The icons and such are not an issue really.
That does not mean others are not welcome.
We don't want to monopolise we just want to make it work.
At present it's an open shop open ended project.
How far do we want to go?
A campaign from 1700 to 18 something
With the major powers at the time
France Britian_Hanover Austro_Hungarian
Prussian Russian Spanish Turks
you get the idea.
As we know they all loved each other
and like to visit regularly.

The projects you are working on will aid this project
no end.I'v already taken into account these factors.

4, 5, 6 and 7
are more the things we need help with

Your involvement would be more than welcome
to say the least.

Thanks

regards

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Krazy

03-10-2003, 17:19

Quote[/b] (Dramicus @ Mar. 09 2003,22:46)]Im too lazy to actually try them out, why dont you post some screens of battle? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Bad excuse but however http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

http://mysite.freeserve.com/lordkrazy/images/7-picture2.gif

Wellington

03-10-2003, 17:41

LK,

I'll send you an E-mail with an image or 2 (jpeg's - not too big)

Welly

Knight_Yellow

03-10-2003, 17:49

Those are sweet pics.

im looking forward to this1 very mutch

just a thought will the brittish have a "thin red line" formation or a bonus if they do? since i belive that was the standard formation.

Baron von Beer

03-10-2003, 18:01

My those are strange looking knights... with those sticks that make a flash, and knock a man down from across the field... sureley it is the Devil at work

Well, if it is.. being evil has never been so good

Ming the Merciless

03-10-2003, 20:23

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif Wow

This has got to be the most promising mod I've ever seen for Medieval I always wanted someone to do this theme. Really looking forward to this one

Lord Krazy: When do you think it will be finished?

Also, what are you planning in the way of artillery? I would really like to see a galloper-gun (you know a horse-drawn light cannon which can move and deploy) and I think it would fit in with the time period, Is this possible?

Thanks for such great work LK

Dramicus

03-10-2003, 21:38

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Mar. 09 2003,23:10)]Because in that case you'd probably also be too lazy to look at the screen shots. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
true, true......

LK: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif NICE http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif those are SWEET, errm, maybe I should try em out.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Dramicus

03-10-2003, 21:56

err, im getting errors for all of the new inf, something to do with the actions in the texture folder...
All i did was back up all the folders which were involved and then extracted your mod...

help plz

edit: and I get an error message when it starts up that says something about the english light inf being invalid, they dont show up for selection either...

Lord Krazy

03-10-2003, 22:53

Quote[/b] ]err, im getting errors for all of the new inf, something to do with the actions in the texture folder...
All i did was back up all the folders which were involved and then extracted your mod...

help plz

edit: and I get an error message when it starts up that says something about the english light inf being invalid, they dont show up for selection either...

I screwed up the directories names maybe.
Add the file manualy for the moment.
I'll update it soon with a few more units
and sort out other problems such as this too.

The files work on my pc so it should just be a directory
problem.

That's what you get for being lazy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Krazy

03-10-2003, 22:55

This is what they look like.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/lordkrazy/images/5-picture1.gif

Knight_Yellow

03-10-2003, 22:58

just a thought but can we get some highland regiments?

i mean plenty scotts fought for old britania in their own regiments.

Lord Krazy

03-10-2003, 23:10

I see the problem I gave you the wrong prod11
just add an EnglishLightInfantry

copy the line from the arqubusier and just change the name
if this is too hard wait for the update http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Brother Derfel

03-10-2003, 23:29

OOOhhhhh cool 95th rifles there LK Lol, you could have a hero Richard Sharpe (anyone else read the Bernard Cornwell novels?)

And Knight Yellow has a point, there were a great many Scotish regiments, and a third of the British army at the time was actualy Irish

This looks fantastic, best and most promising Mod i have seen so far.

If you do some Imperial Guard Marmaluks I will love you for ever (well at least be happy for a while) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Lord Krazy

03-10-2003, 23:47

How about mamluk scots http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

http://mysite.freeserve.com/lordkrazy/images/8-picture2.gif

Dramicus

03-10-2003, 23:59

Found it

Had to use my 1337 moding skillz but I found and fixed the prob...

you had a folder called "Actionpages" where it needed to be named "ActionsPage" .... nothing big, but it does stop the anyone from using it.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Knight_Yellow

03-11-2003, 00:56

now cumon u know u have to have at least 1 guy with a bag pipe now or maybe a bag pipe unit -2 moral to the enemy maybe?

Lord Of Storms

03-11-2003, 01:18

LK I am currently assisting Welly on a Holyland mod in conjunction with LMM devolopment, but if you need someone to work in Startpos/Names etc. I am your man after all you need someone to change the stuff in the "curly brackets" LOL http://www.emotipad.com/emoticons/Big%20Thumb%20Up.gif

Lord Krazy

03-11-2003, 04:20

Quote[/b] (Dramicus @ Mar. 10 2003,16:59)]Found it

Had to use my 1337 moding skillz but I found and fixed the prob...

you had a folder called "Actionpages" where it needed to be named "ActionsPage" .... nothing big, but it does stop the anyone from using it.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Well done you see your not that lazy after all.

It was not meant for the anyones
but I get your point. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Your very demanding for a lazy person http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Alrowan

03-11-2003, 04:50

ooohhhhhhhhhhh

that looks awesome.. we need to play some online

Lord Krazy

03-11-2003, 05:14

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Mar. 10 2003,17:56)]now cumon u know u have to have at least 1 guy with a bag pipe now or maybe a bag pipe unit -2 moral to the enemy maybe?
Why just the enemy? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

A bagpipe unit could be made
but I'm not going to as I have better things to do
thank you. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Like dancing cannons http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Krazy

03-11-2003, 05:40

Quote[/b] (Alrowan @ Mar. 10 2003,21:50)]ooohhhhhhhhhhh

that looks awesome.. we need to play some online
You just need someone with the same set of file.
Ones that work that is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I don't supose you have a map
of Waterloo by any chance? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

SOS thanks I'll be in touch.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Krazy

03-11-2003, 06:07

Quote[/b] (Brother Derfel @ Mar. 10 2003,16:29)]a third of the British army at the time was actualy Irish
I know of the these Irish regiments
Name followed by regiment number

Royal Irish 18

Inniskilling 27

Royal County Down 86

The Prince of Wale's Own Irish 87

The Connaught Rangers 88

The Prince of Wale's Tipperary 99

His royal bla bla bla The County of Dublin 100

The Duke of Yorks Irish regiment 101

That's 8 out of 104 I know of
Which is less than 10%

This is what I know it does not mean I'm right.
Just wondering what you base your ratio on?

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Alrowan

03-11-2003, 11:52

well i got bored and changed all the european battle music to fit the Napoleonic era.. bagpipes piping, whistles blowing, drumms rolling... the whole lot. If you want it its only a small 7MB so ill see where i can dump it for download

Dramicus

03-11-2003, 17:18

Quote[/b] (Lord Krazy @ Mar. 10 2003,21:20)]Your very demanding for a lazy person http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ohh, now your asking for it... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Brother Derfel

03-11-2003, 20:48

Wellington

03-11-2003, 21:56

Quote[/b] (Lord Krazy @ Mar. 10 2003,23:07)]
Quote[/b] (Brother Derfel @ Mar. 10 2003,16:29)]a third of the British army at the time was actualy Irish
I know of the these Irish regiments
Name followed by regiment number

Royal Irish 18

Inniskilling 27

Royal County Down 86

The Prince of Wale's Own Irish 87

The Connaught Rangers 88

The Prince of Wale's Tipperary 99

His royal bla bla bla The County of Dublin 100

The Duke of Yorks Irish regiment 101

That's 8 out of 104 I know of
Which is less than 10%

This is what I know it does not mean I'm right.
Just wondering what you base your ratio on?

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
LK,

Correct, but let's not forget the cavalry -

- 4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon Guards
- 6th (Inniskilling) Dragoons
- 18th King's Irish Hussars

BD,

Whilst there is no doubt that the numbers of Irish and Scottish soldiers (and perhaps also Welsh) who served in the British Army during the Napolionic wars was a far greater per-quota ratio for their nationalities ...

... the proportion of Irishmen in the British Army has NEVER approached a figure of 33% - or anything near.

If you consider the populations of England/Wales, Ireland and Scotland during this period you'll arrive at a ratio of roughly 80:10:10 for the nationalities mentioned above.

There is no doubt that both the Irish and Scottish contributed far greater numbers per head of population. I would suggest (very roughly speaking) an average of around -

- 15% for Irish recruits
- approaching 20% for Scottish recruits
- the remaining 85% being English or Welsh

Very commendable considering the times, but nowhere near approaching 33%

In deference to the quality of the Irish and Scottish recruits who fought in Wellingtons armies (that is - THE Wellington - not me&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif there is no doubt they were tough opponents and aquitted themselves well when in the brunt of it.

Welly

Welly

Old Templar

03-11-2003, 22:59

LK - you mentioned earlier the Mod will cover the time period 1700 (Seven-Year-War) to 1800 (Napolonic Wars)- Is this correct? Are you collecting information on the Seven-Year-War as well? Perhaps, I can help. Appropriate maps you can find: http://www.euroatlas.com/time/nw1700.htm and "../nw1800.htm". This not a LINK. I am sorry, but I do not know how to make it a Link for direct use here.

Wellington

03-11-2003, 23:08

Quote[/b] (Old Templar @ Mar. 11 2003,15:59)]LK - you mentioned earlier the Mod will cover the time period 1700 (Seven-Year-War) to 1800 (Napolonic Wars)- Is this correct? Are you collecting information on the Seven-Year-War as well? Perhaps, I can help. Appropriate maps you can find: http://www.euroatlas.com/time/nw1700.htm and "../nw1800.htm".
No such links ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Ming the Merciless

03-11-2003, 23:46

So when do you think the mod will be out? As either a beta or finished thing?

BTW what are you going to have in the way of artillery?

I was a bit disappointed the next total war game wasn't going for the napoleonic wars (but I have to admit the screenshots for Rome TW look very good)

Keep up the good work LK

Lord Krazy

03-12-2003, 08:33

Quote[/b] ]The ratio came from the Osprey book on wellingtons infantry i think. It doesn;t just refer to the actual Irish regiments, but also the fact that a good deal of English and Scotish regiments also had irish soldiers in their ranks. Wide spread poverty in Ireland at the time forced many young men into the army of their 'hated' oppressors

That would mean that twice as many Irish soldiers
served in english and scottish regiments
than in irish regiments, including the cavalry.
I don't think so.
Like Welly mentioned the Irish percentage never reached
33%, by any stretch of the imagination.

Quote[/b] ]- 4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon Guards
- 6th (Inniskilling) Dragoons
- 18th King's Irish Hussars

I didn't forget them they just don't make odds to the
argument.

The 18th and the 8th were (light dragoon) hussars
but I tought the 8th was the
The King's Royal Irish (light dragoons)Hussars

Quote[/b] ]If you consider the populations of England/Wales, Ireland and Scotland during this period you'll arrive at a ratio of roughly 80:10:10 for the nationalities mentioned above

That would mean that the famine never took place
in Ireland.Or the population of England was around
80 million.Either way I can't agree.I know for a
fact the famine took place.I know for fact that the population was never 80 million.

If you consider the British census at the time
accounted for about 8 million and they never
bother to do it certain places,
(like where the natives lived) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
God only knows how many people lived in Ireland
at the time.The mortality and emigration rates
for the period dictated that at least 7 million
people lived in Ireland in this period.
It is estimated that 50% of the population
either perished or left due to starvation.
3.5 million is the estimated number
in the late 19th century when the famine period ended
finally. So 20% to 30% population I could believe
but members of the army not.
If you consider the devistating famine period
was not till the 19th century times in Ireland
in the 18th century would have been much better.
If you also consider the fact that the 15th 16th and 17th
centuries in Ireland were abysmal.
Lizzy, Olly, the French guy from Holland
all a bundel of laughs and out to improve
public relations on a grand scale. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I would say fighting for anyone let alone the british wasn't
high on priorities.I know a lot of Irish people have fought for and still fight for the British army but not in great numbers and not soly for ecconomic reasons.
At the Battle of Waterloo for example I know
of only two Irish regiments that fought
that day.Both from Inniskilling , a place then and still
to this day with a very British population.
They did because they got paid and they wanted to.
To my knowledge the fact that so many Irish served in the
British army at the time was due to the fact at lot of Irish
people were around at the time.Remember Dublin was the
second city of the British Empire not Edinburgh
or Cardiff.

The points of view often differ from place to place.
Deciding what the ethnic make up of the British
army could be debated to high heaven as many others.
As for giving one ethnic grouping an advantage
or difference to another that's not on.
If you get 600 Irish guys and 600 english guys
give them the same training the same weapon
line them up on a level playing field
and tell them to open fire, who do you think will
do the more damage?
So musket units will be musket units with the same stats
and Hussars will be Hussars no matter where they come from.

Different regiments can be named as such for each region
drawing from the same source files, so if you had
10 regions in france you could have 10 or more
individualy named regiments.
But the only difference will be weapon, moral, experiance
Leadership and the lay of the land.
Where they come from is not a factor.
____

btw here is a link for an update of the units
here (http://thelordz.co.uk/zips/Napoleonic_Unit_Betas_v1.2.zip)

this one is about 6 megs
The last 7 plus 2 more
and flags and shields for the nations involved.
The flags need to be renamed if you want to use them.
If you don't know how don't use them until you
do ok
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

kyodai-britishbeef

03-12-2003, 10:14

this looks really good, i love the napoleonic era and have a good load of knowledge, but unfortunatly am not talented enough to help you with your mod (my skillz are strictly limited to historical battles and maps), but good luck with it lads , maybe i will make some maps for multiplayer http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Lord Krazy

03-12-2003, 10:15

Quote[/b] (Ming the Merciless @ Mar. 11 2003,16:46)]

Quote[/b] ]So when do you think the mod will be out? As either a beta or finished thing?

I told you three days ago that we had started work
on this mod.Now you want too know when it will be finished.

I haven't seen daylight for a while so
when I find out what day it is, I'll do a quick estimation.
Is it still march? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LBA said not tomorrow for sure so check back after that
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I can't honestly say.
All I know is that the team we need to get the
show off the road is already near full strength.
The fact that Welly is all hands on deck
is like having a brigade of dragoons
behind you. So we are confident you will see an offering sooner rather than later.The fact that we have tought long and hard about this means that we already have a sence of
direction and purpose.We are still open for discussion
and inovation but we are not short of ideas or knowledge.

So keep your socks on and I asure you
when we know such things so shall you.

Quote[/b] ]BTW what are you going to have in the way of artillery?

I was thinking cannon myself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Or do you mean how are we going to manouver
them around the vast maps of mtw http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
One option is to make a cavalry unit
give it cannon as a weapon and put cannon in the stand frames.This will enable battaries of cannon also.
I haven't heard too many alternatives. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Quote[/b] ]I was a bit disappointed the next total war game wasn't going for the napoleonic wars (but I have to admit the screenshots for Rome TW look very good)

Well it had to go one way or the other
and we were bound to go the other
as varity is the spice of life http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The screen shots look fantastic
Have you asked when they will be finished btw? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Would you believe it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Anyway the less I sit here chatting to you guy's
the quicker you'll see it.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Thanks for the kind words and it is nice to know other people are as anxious as us to see this
mod work and fill it's potential.

LK

Lord Krazy

03-12-2003, 11:10

Quote[/b] (kyodai-britishbeef @ Mar. 12 2003,03:14)]

Quote[/b] ]but unfortunatly am not talented enough to help you with your mod (my skillz are strictly limited to historical battles and maps),

KB
This is a contradiction in terms.
Your not talented enough to help
yet you are skilled in battles and maps
(to say the least)

What makes you think we do not desire
maps and battles designed for the period.

Quote[/b] ]maybe i will make some maps for multiplayer

Exactly.Then you could write some battles to put on them.

btw if talent was a criteia I would not be here.
I just press the buttons according to the help file
and some thingie in my computer sorts it all out somehow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Work and determination is all I have to offer.
That's all it takes IMHO.
So get to work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

NagatsukaShumi

03-12-2003, 12:04

Hello LK. If i can help you in anyway just drop me a line, i know i am back to making my own MOD but as a thanks for sticking by me in the previous attempts i would like to help you some way, i cant help in anything but making units, changing the map and modding the units stats, i can do Loc Eng, battles, maps and images stuff like that, so if you ever need any help i will be glad to help you out, plus i'm ill at the moment so i need something to do to occupy me while i am actually awake and moving about and not doing my own MOD.

kyodai-britishbeef

03-12-2003, 19:24

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif hehe , ok i see your point LK , i will definetely sort some maps and battles out , and if u require any testing let me know http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Ming the Merciless

03-12-2003, 22:45

Well, that put me in my place http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

You should be flattered that I'm so desperate to find out when it will be released

What I meant about artillery, as you guessed, was whether there would be horse artillery, but also whether howizters would be included. Not being a modder myself I wouldn't know if howizters were possible, but you could have a cannonball projectile which explodes into a naptha-like explosion. The explosion time being dependant on crew skill and a random factor.

Oh yeah, erm.. when will it be finished http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

*starts to run knowing he's going to get hit soon*

Wellington

03-12-2003, 23:33

A very quick response in respect of 2 questions that have raised pertaining to this mod -

Q1: I would like to help but I don't know anything What can I do?

A1: Does'nt matter. Whether or not you know anything (as regards MTW modding or the Napolionic era) is totally irrelevant. Knowledge is NOT relevant. Interest, enthusiam and willingness are FAR MORE IMPORTANT. Anyone who wishes to help/contribute WILL be given as much assistance as possible. After all, is'nt this the purpose of such a modders group/forum?

Q2: How long before something is deliverable?

A2: It all depends on yourselves. There are sufficient people already to ensure the success of this mod. All that remains is efficient planning/organisation to ascertain what can be achieved with peoples time/resources.

My own personal opinion is that something entirely different can be provided within a period of 4 to 8 weeks. The more people interested in this mod anmd whom wishto contribute - the shorter the time.

I'll say again (as I always do&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif - we don't care how much you know. This is a modders forum, and as such anyone who has a basic interest or enthusiasm will be assisted as much as possible - and if they ar'nt then I'm a liar

I'll post something in 1 day or 2 in respect of the areas that could use a little investigation in respect of a mod of this undertaking. Whether you are a 'newbie' or someone who knows a little bit about MTW is totally irrevelant.

ENTHUSIASM and WILLINGNESS are important - not knowledge or expertise.

Welly

Lord Of Storms

03-13-2003, 17:44

I have looked at some Napoleonic related sites and I find the period to be very interesting alot of diversity of units and countries involved I am learning alot.http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/riley/787/Napoleon/1809/Essling.jpg

Lord Of Storms

03-13-2003, 17:45

some other related picshttp://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/riley/787/Napoleon/England/Army/1schweredragoner1803mannschaft_castell.jpg http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/riley/787/Napoleon/England/Army/1husarenoffizier_castell.jpg

kyodai-britishbeef

03-14-2003, 20:31

i want to play using these demo units but , how do i do it ? any help would be much appreciated. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Lord Krazy

03-14-2003, 21:09

Quote[/b] (kyodai-britishbeef @ Mar. 14 2003,13:31)]i want to play using these demo units but , how do i do it ? any help would be much appreciated. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Just copy the file to the the same
folder in mtw and that's it.

backup any file to be replaced
and that should be it.

In theory if you get the MTW-Total War.zip
and unzip it with the use folder names tad ticked,
into the Total War directory
Then it should just install.

If you can make a second install of mtw
that would help also.Then you could afford
to make mistakes.

KB mail me
at TheLords@thelordz.co.uk

A Prussian Jaeger unit will be added tonight

Knight_Yellow

03-14-2003, 21:13

guys just wondering earlier today i found a load of files containg the images of all the mtw units.

see if i changed one of the wee guys shields by putting a cross on it would all those units end up with crosses on their shields?

ie. bowman has a shield so if u put a cross would all bowman have that now?

Lord Krazy

03-14-2003, 22:35

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Mar. 14 2003,14:13)]guys just wondering earlier today i found a load of files containg the images of all the mtw units.

see if i changed one of the wee guys shields by putting a cross on it would all those units end up with crosses on their shields?

ie. bowman has a shield so if u put a cross would all bowman have that now?
Yes they are called bif files.
read wellingtons guide to animation.

If you change the shield you change it for
everboby that uses it.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

chilliwilli

03-14-2003, 23:04

Ideas for factions:

1. France
2. Spain
3. Ottoman Empire
4. Russia
5. Kingdom of Two Sicilies
6. Poland/Lithuania(Only in early campaign since they were annexed later)
7. Austria
8. Algeria(need someone to represent Africa and they interacted with Europe more than Tunisia, Morocco, or Tripoli.)
9. Prussia/Bradenburg
10. Venice
11. England
12. Denmark or Sweden(Sweden might be tough considering their provinces are off the MTW map)
13. Netherlands

Main problem will be with the German minors. Will you guys make them rebel territory?

Dramicus

03-15-2003, 00:00

Depending on the time, they will either be French, Prussian or Austrian...

It will be hard to really go into detail with the current map, considering that it was constructed with the middle ages in mind... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

but this cant be helped unless someone wants to go and build a new map...

Lord Krazy

03-15-2003, 09:29

here (http://thelordz.co.uk/zips/Napoleonic_Units_v1.3.zip)
is a link to version 1.3

it contains 10 units

PrussianJaegerInfantry is the extra unit

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gifheretoo (http://thelordz.co.uk/zips/Napoleonic_Units_v1.4.zip)
for v1.4

Knight_Yellow

03-15-2003, 09:33

im using that link now,

god that must suck if uve only got 56k

Lord Krazy

03-15-2003, 10:21

Quote[/b] (Dramicus @ Mar. 14 2003,17:00)]It will be hard to really go into detail with the current map, considering that it was constructed with the middle ages in mind... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

but this cant be helped unless someone wants to go and build a new map...
Maps are being worked on.

As for going into detail, well that's just hard.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Wellington

03-15-2003, 11:12

Quote[/b] (Dramicus @ Mar. 14 2003,17:00)]Depending on the time, they will either be French, Prussian or Austrian...

It will be hard to really go into detail with the current map, considering that it was constructed with the middle ages in mind... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

but this cant be helped unless someone wants to go and build a new map...
There WILL be a new map for this mod. It's already finished

The idea is for Nap mod to become several mods, all based around the Napoleonic era and with limited factions. For example -

- French and Austrians fighting in a campaign based on the North Italian plains (1796)
- French and Russians fighting in Russia (1812)
- French and English (with perhaps SPanish/Portugeuse units) fighting the Peninsula campaign in Spain.

These proposed mods will all incorpoate -

1) New Units
2) New campaign maps
3) An emphasis being placed on tactical campaigns rather than strategic ones

Implicit in this will be a different time scale (days/weeks/months instead of years) and MAJOR changes to the building requirements within MTW - the idea being to reduce the amount of building required in order to get units.

As the scenarios/campaigns will be tactical my idea is to allow creation of ALL units possible for that faction (on the assumption they have entered the area as reinforcements from outside).

I'll post some requirements and a bit more info re the proposed direction in a day or 2,

LK will be downloading more images of the units and the Campaign maps from his site within a few days.

Welly

Alrowan

03-15-2003, 11:31

if you need any maps made, send a request over my way, ill sort it out

kyodai-britishbeef

03-15-2003, 11:51

having just played a few custom battles using the new units , i am totally amazed. i think this mod will be totally excellant, the new units look really good the gun smoke and sound are good when combined with the rate of fire and reload, as well as greater range, the amount of effort that has gone in already is very evident. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

I just hope u guys put the same effort in to the music and sounds to make this mod really great. i am looking forward to seeing some hussars and british cav as well , well done so far and i am eagar to see more http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Wellington

03-15-2003, 12:11

Quote[/b] (Alrowan @ Mar. 15 2003,04:31)]if you need any maps made, send a request over my way, ill sort it out
Alrowan,

You read my thoughts I was writing a quick "who can do what" and your name immediately sprang to ming in terms of adding a bit of 'battlefield map flavour' for creating some different maps based on the provinces for the 1st Nap mod campaign map.

This WILL be challenging The 1st campaign map I have in mind (and is finished) is based around the Italian lakes and encompasses several areas with small/large villages, larger towns, lots of hilly/mountaneous regions, lots of coastal provinces, deltas and much more.

Having your assistance on this 'Nap Mod team' to create something even more special would be phenominal. The tactical campaign map emphasis (as oppose to a campaign map of Europe/Asis/Africa) will undoubtedly provide you with something to really get your teeth into.

Can I suggest you E-mail me - and I'll send back a simple Jpg of the 1st proposed map (only 200K or so) and a link from were to download the actual WWW hires map (3+ meg). Also, I'll indicate a rough idea of where the provinces will be split up on this map.

regards,
Welly

Alrowan

03-15-2003, 14:49

ok, sounds good

just email this adress

the_smphill@hotmail.com

ill get back to you asap.

by he way i have got a music set that may interest you for this mod, though it is 7MB so i may have to send it in separate parts

Dramicus

03-15-2003, 15:02

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Mar. 15 2003,04:12)]There WILL be a new map for this mod. It's already finished

The idea is for Nap mod to become several mods, all based around the Napoleonic era and with limited factions.

LK will be downloading more images of the units and the Campaign maps from his site within a few days.

Welly
sounds great

Your much further along then I expected, now If we could only get some screenshots... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Alrowan

03-15-2003, 16:20

just looked at the units.. the english inf seem to have the speen on thier animation pumped... they look like theyve been snorting

CBR

03-15-2003, 16:33

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Mar. 15 2003,10:12)]The idea is for Nap mod to become several mods, all based around the Napoleonic era and with limited factions. For example -

- French and Austrians fighting in a campaign based on the North Italian plains (1796)
- French and Russians fighting in Russia (1812)
- French and English (with perhaps SPanish/Portugeuse units) fighting the Peninsula campaign in Spain.
Ok I'm just a newbie modder so maybe you know more than me..

But I found out you had to have a minimum of 8 factions or MTW will crash (at least in MP/custom battles) Is it different in SP campaign?

CBR

Lord Of Storms

03-15-2003, 17:09

http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/riley/787/Napoleon/1806/napjena.jpgNapoleon at Jena

Lord Krazy

03-16-2003, 01:33

Today SOS means
"seriously oversized screenshot" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Knight_Yellow

03-16-2003, 01:36

Any1 else noticed a glitch where if ur in a custom game and u take like 2 units of english line inf and pit them against an army that some of the enemy units have severe graphical glitches?

Byz infantry and fuedal foot knights are the ones ive noticed with this.

just wondering if its just me or a global problem http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Lord Krazy

03-16-2003, 02:19

Quote[/b] (Alrowan @ Mar. 15 2003,09:20)]just looked at the units.. the english inf seem to have the speen on thier animation pumped... they look like theyve been snorting
Yes the word beta springs to mind.
Maybe I should have left it an alfa.
Next time I'll include the 1.2 readme.
That readme stated,

"Please bare in mind this is just a beta for testing"

Not a finished product.This is for the beta testers
if others want to try it well that's fine but
that's not what it is for.I am well aware
of all graphical glitchs as we did
compile them
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

These glitches will be removed and many other things will change too.

The fact that the Prussians and the other English
unit do not walk like this and considering they were
compiled after show that this issue has been resolved.

We are not pro's so why people are expecting
professional work I don't know http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
They are far more qualified people out there that
can do this,they just don't unfortuatly.
So untill they do you will have to put up with the crap
TheLords put out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Free Fun but not flawless

TheLords@thelordz.co.uk
is a better forum to discuss such issues
IMHO
Thank you.

Regards,

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Krazy

03-16-2003, 02:31

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Mar. 15 2003,18:36)]Any1 else noticed a glitch where if ur in a custom game and u take like 2 units of english line inf and pit them against an army that some of the enemy units have severe graphical glitches?

Byz infantry and fuedal foot knights are the ones ive noticed with this.

just wondering if its just me or a global problem http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif they just work if you use them against
each other or unit that don't use the
bif that has been replaced.

Quote[/b] ]Byz infantry and fuedal foot knights
versus rifle and musket
Well I didn't really think of that combination
to be quite honest http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

serves you right
pick on someone your own size http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

LK

Wellington

03-16-2003, 02:55

The Nap Units,

The new units that will be available for this Napolenic mod are being redone. I am currently writing a utility that will assist LK/LBA in building the BIFs, generating ActionsPage/Deadpage stuff and getting all it correct (this utility may also offer some degree of automated recolouring in order to create variations on a theme - hence different colours tunics for Hussars, different coloured epaulettes etc:).

The size of the units will probably (don't know yet) be around 70%-80% of the MTW unit size - in order to preserve resolution. This won't matter as the Napolenic mod will ONLY have these units in it - no MTW units.

Therefore any Napoleonic type units that are currently available for download from the Org, whether Beta or whatever, will NOT be the final units that will be provided for this Nap mod.

You will be provided with a completely new set.

Welly

Lord Of Storms

03-16-2003, 05:53

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Mar. 15 2003,19:55)]The Nap Units,

- hence different colours tunics for Hussars, different coloured epaulettes etc:).

Welly
Within the English infantry of the era The Light(Rifle)Battalions with a GREEN uniform must be differentiated from the line battalions with the RED coat of the English infantry.A company would consist of of just over 90 men including non-comms.and a battalion would consist of up to ten companies(up to 900 muskets strong) with 1 grenadier company.The uniform of the Light Battalions was GREEN with Black collars and facings,shako with cord,black shoulderbelt,long grey trousers. The officers added to their green uniform hussar braid made of black silk, Line battalions all had the same Scarlet uniform with dark blue collars and facings, The uniform of the cavlry of the Legion was especially becoming, Hevy Dragoons wore Scarlet coats with long tails, white trousers,high black boots with strap on spurs. The 1st Regiment had DARK BLUE collars and facings ,the2nd Black ones,2 rows of gold buttons with royal cypher,white shoulder belt cocked hat with red and white plume. Every heavy regiment hat a rectangular,red king's colour, which showed a white rose and a thistle under a king's crown in the middle, On the reverse one could see an Irish cloverleaf with a white scroll with the motto "Honni soit, qui mal y pense". 4 small blue and gold bordered shileds in the corners showed the letters K.G.D (King's German Dragoons) or a white horse. This was taken from a site that was devoted to the soldiers of the Napoleonic era these excerpts were of British soldiers dress and deportment I noticed also how musicians played an important part in the regiments also, drum and bugle corps. I thought it might be of interest.TSOS

Knight_Yellow

03-16-2003, 08:01

no i meant bring 2 units at double size and try to win as the defender on acre against 4 units of pikes 4 valour and 4 units of goth knights 4 valour.

very bloody hard

Lord Krazy

03-16-2003, 12:04

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Mar. 16 2003,01:01)]no i meant bring 2 units at double size and try to win as the defender on acre against 4 units of pikes 4 valour and 4 units of goth knights 4 valour.

very bloody hard
What has that got to do with graphic glitches? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Let's just asume that I actualy put some tought
into the prod11 and projetilestats,which I didn't.
I still think 2 units against 8 and add to that
4 are cavalry the odds are stacked against you.

I can't believe I'm having this conversation.

They are just samples live with it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
------------------------------------------------------------

It's kinda like this.
We new from the start we could not do this
by ourselves
The only reason we took the decision
to release these samples to the public was to generate
some interest.Seen as all our previsious efforts
were mostly ignored or treated with scepticisim.
Over the last 4 months I have brought up the idea
of this mod on several occasions.Apart from a few
Napoleonic buffs, no one seemed to care other then
the beta testers that saw the units.
So we released the units hoping it would have the same
reaction.So far it look's like it did, even if
it is a confused one. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
For that I do take responsibility http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

TheLords announced that were starting
to formulate this project when RTW was made offical.
Last week was the first offer of help we had from
any other modders.
As a result of months of non interest
I was not prepared for the response we have had
in the last week.I have been every concievable
question and the rest in the last week.
From why does the campaign crash to what units
and nations will be in it to when is going to be finished?

I did anticipate the last one.
It's normaly one of the first questions asked http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

So to make some things clear http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

What do you know?
very little

What are you going to do?
alot

When will we know what is going to happen
and what it will look like and how many factions and units
and will cannon move and will there be 3d realtime naval
battles and will the King of England speak German
and if Spain will be catholic expationist
or members of the EC http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

When you install the mod.
I never believe anything I read on forums http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Why won't the sample units do this that or the other thing?
because they are samples

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Antalis::

03-16-2003, 12:14

@Lord Krazy:

WOW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Thats fun to play with this units

Go forward it and make a really good mod.
I know that you and a team will make it very well

Thank you for the possibility to play in that time.

This mod and the Patrician mod are the best thing I´ve ever seen.
Please go forward and make a map, cavalary and so on.

Antalis::

Lord Krazy

03-16-2003, 12:16

Quote[/b] ]Within the English infantry of the era The Light(Rifle)Battalions with a GREEN uniform must be differentiated from the line battalions with the RED coat of the English infantry

Have you seen the screenshots on the first page?

Quote[/b] ]an Irish cloverleaf
I don't want to split hairs
but it's called a shamrock.
I don't think clover is Irish.
It's more from all clover the world http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Wellington

03-16-2003, 13:36

Guys,

Factions, units and maps
========================

A few more details just so people understand what is going to be done and why.

Factions
--------

This Nap mod CANNOT offer 20 different factions fighting over a European map - AT THE SAME TIME

The reason is all MTW units are based on images within 34 BIFs - different units are achieved by mixing and matching these images with shields and weapons. The Nap mod WONT be doing this - it can't as the weapons are already drawn on to the images LB/LDA will be using for this mod. Therefore, it will probably be a case of 1 unit per BIF.

As there are a maximum 34 BIFs available in MTW, 4 of which will used for Nap horses - that gives us 30 BIFs from which to create all the units required for 20 factions Can't be done. Therefore, we have to rethink this - which is why I suggest we have several MTW Nap campaigns, all tactical in nature, and each having only a few factions available (2-4 perhaps).

Units
-----

With 2 factions available for any Nap campaign this gives us a maximum 15 BIFs per faction (that is 15 different units per faction) ... which is ample. With 4 factions in any Nap campaign that gives us 7 or 8 different units available per faction - just about enough (but stretching it somewhat).

This is not a problem as throughout the Nap era you never saw more than 4 main Nationalities involved in any one campaign (Austerlizt was the maximum - 4 nationalities).

We may be able to get more than 1 unit in a BIF (from what I've seen of the sample images LB/LKA are going to be using) but I'm not sure yet.

Therefore, we can have a number of "Sets" of BIFs that each relate to the units of a specific faction, as an example -

Set 'A' - BIFs 1-11 = French units
Set 'B' - BIFs 12-23 = British units
Set 'C' - BIFs 24-31 = Prussian units

and

Set 'D' - BIFs 12-21 = Austrian units
Set 'E' - BIFs 22-31 = Russian units

... and so on.

and so on. Note that sets 'B' and 'E' use the BIFs. This is NOT a problem as we won't be offering campaigns that use both these faction (British and Russian) in the same campaign.

Each 'set' of bifs will be downloadable as a complete set (or partial set if the download size is too big).

Maps
----

Each Nap campaign will have its own map, together with 2-4 'Sets' of factions available for that specific Map/campaign. The various map will either be downloadable from the web or be a cropped/resized/renamed version of the MTW maps.

Hence each Nap campaign will comprise, for example -

Waterloo campaign - map of Belgium. French/British/Prussian sets of BIFs/units
Peninsular campaign - map of Spain. French/British sets of BIFs/units
North Italy - tactical maps of North Italy. French/Austrian/Italian sets of BIFs/units

I'll be sending LK some screen shots of the campaign map(s) from which he can add them to this thread via his website.

You should get the rough idea by now. However all of this has to be managed/controlled, so ...

Managing all of this
--------------------

Software will manage most of this. LMM will manage the maps creation and install/backout of each Nap campaign. Recipients of these mods will require LMM to recreate the campaign for you. UM (Unit Modder) is being written now to manage the creation of the BIFs from LK/LBA's plates and the organisation of the various Nationility 'sets' of BIFs.

Conclusion
----------

Hope some of this makes sense and answers some questions. As for which Nationalities and units willbe available I don't know yet as I've only received a few sample plates and don't yet know whats possible.

LK - can you compile a list of 2 things

1) which nationalities are provided for in your plates
2) which unit types, per nationality, are provided for in your plates

... we can then plan this and inform people what 1st offering(s) will be.

I'll write up a list of things to be done in a few days in order to ascertain who can assist with what.

regards
Welly

Knight_Yellow

03-16-2003, 17:13

what i meant was that ive seen some wierd graphical glitches in the byz inf and fuedal foot knights if i field an army of them against 1 or 2 units of line infantry.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Wellington

03-16-2003, 17:38

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Mar. 16 2003,10:13)]what i meant was that ive seen some wierd graphical glitches in the byz inf and fuedal foot knights if i field an army of them against 1 or 2 units of line infantry.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
KY,

As LK rightly pointed out - dont worry about that for now in terms of this Nap mod. If your concerned post it on the "Request to Community" thread.

Considering the amount amount of work that is manually required to create MTW bifs (and correct image-rectangles/actions/frames/XY-origins) it's hardly surprising there may (and I say MAY because no has any idea how YOU have modded YOUR version of MTW) be some glitches. As I've said I am busy writing a utility to automate this process so when the 1st offerings are released you won't see any glitches - unless, of course, you've f****d something up.

If you are at a loose end for something to do, and are interested in this Nap mod then here's your starter for 10 -

- we need a short list of different types of Scottish units that fought in the Napoleonic wars. NOT regiments but types of units (maybe 4/5 infantry and 2/3 cavalry). For each different type -

- Line Infantry
- Light Infantry
- Highlanders
- Light Cavalry (hussars/dragoons)
- Heavy Cavalry (scots greys) ... and so on

We need to know the basic differences in dress, weaponry and morale/effectiveness. Hence -

- kilts or trousers etc
- what type of headgear (shako/busbee etc)
- rifles or muskets, effective ranges, reload times etc
- elite unit or line unit?
... and so on

Do you want this research on?

Welly

Lord Krazy

03-16-2003, 20:19

Battalions discharged their guns in a mass volley at targets within 200 yards normaly.
Often men would continue their fire at the rate of one to two rounds per minute. They could fire three or four, but many weapons also misfired, and the smoke from previous discharges often obscured the target from view.Not that they aimed much but it was still nice to see where
the target was.Seen as they fire in mass at large numbers
of troops, it was kind of hard to miss altogeather.
Rifle was more accurate and longer ranges but took longer
to reload, so only really had an advantage atlong range.
Once musket units closed to effective range they were the
one with the advantage with a more rapid rate of fire.
Beyond 100 yards smoothbore musket
was not accurate to say the least.
The first volley was often the most effective because it was loaded with more care and fired with less smoke.
Every soldier had about 50 rounds of ammunition. Musket fire caused most casualties in battle.

This was pretty much standard for the period.
These things vairied from weapon to waepon
and regiment to regiment but not vastly I believe.

The battalion was the main unit of manuver.
It normaly lined up 3 ranks deep.The first two ranks
firing and the third rank passing forward loaded muskets
and filling in the gaps left by casualties.
The British often used two ranks to maximise
firepower but was weaker in defence as a result.
Wellington used 3 rank lines at Waterloo
and 4 ranks at times.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Brother Derfel

03-16-2003, 21:16

The only troops int eh British army that were issued with rifles were the 60th and the 95th. They wore the green jackets. Also certain elements of the Kings German Legion (one or to of the Light infantry regiments) also wore the dark green and carried rifles. The rifles they were issued with were all the standard Baker Rifle, that could be accurate at up to 400yard, but were most effective between 200 and 300 yards. They took nearly twice as long to reload as the normal Brown Bess musket. The rate of fire for British regiments was noted to be hire than that of any other army as they were the only force to train with live amunition and so had more experience when it came to battle situation. The british soldier could average about 3 shots a minuite with other continental armies averaging about 2 shots.

kyodai-britishbeef

03-16-2003, 21:17

here is an excellant site on napoleonic things, and this link will take u to the interestign stuff about the weapons
link (http://www.napoleonguide.com/weapinf.htm)

Wellington

03-16-2003, 21:53

Quote[/b] (Lord Krazy @ Mar. 16 2003,13:19)]Wellington used 3 rank lines at Waterloo
and 4 ranks at times.
I did no such thing ... I'm not so old http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

I did play Naps at the Sheffield Triples (UK figure wargaming championships/knockout) 3 years running, 1986-88, and fielded my Russian Army on all 3 occasions - just because I was impressed with how I'd painted them (figure wargamers will know what I mean - not always the best policy). Lost in the 1st round all 3 times, once to an Austrian army and twice to British armies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

... which is why my monacle is Wellington - British Naps always seemed to win at the Triples

Still have 2000+ 15mm Naps in the attic, that have been there gathering dust for 12 years. Since moving to Holland I never had the opportunity to play figure wargaming again ... but could'nt never bear to part with armies that took me 5 years to paint.

Such is life. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Welly

Lord Of Storms

03-17-2003, 03:14

LK , WELLY , I came across a good site that has alot of info on the regiment types, uniforms, weapons etc thought it might help www.scotsatwar.org and www.regiments.org Loads of good info...

Brother Derfel

03-17-2003, 22:03

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Mar. 16 2003,14:53)]
Quote[/b] (Lord Krazy @ Mar. 16 2003,13:19)]Wellington used 3 rank lines at Waterloo
and 4 ranks at times.
I did no such thing ... I'm not so old http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

I did play Naps at the Sheffield Triples (UK figure wargaming championships/knockout) 3 years running, 1986-88, and fielded my Russian Army on all 3 occasions - just because I was impressed with how I'd painted them (figure wargamers will know what I mean - not always the best policy). Lost in the 1st round all 3 times, once to an Austrian army and twice to British armies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

... which is why my monacle is Wellington - British Naps always seemed to win at the Triples

Still have 2000+ 15mm Naps in the attic, that have been there gathering dust for 12 years. Since moving to Holland I never had the opportunity to play figure wargaming again ... but could'nt never bear to part with armies that took me 5 years to paint.

Such is life. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Welly
he he, I know what you mean Welly. I played 25mm Spanish Napoleonic for a while after I painted up some Guirillo's that a mate gave me. I lost every bloody battle cos my troops always ran away.

I am painting 15mm Marlburian Anglo-Dutch now, they are better painted than my Spanish and fair better on the table. I am happy...

Wellington

03-17-2003, 22:58

Quote[/b] (Brother Derfel @ Mar. 17 2003,15:03)]I am painting 15mm Marlburian Anglo-Dutch now, they are better painted than my Spanish and fair better on the table. I am happy...
Sounds nice ...

... just don't rely too much on the Dutch elements http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

MR EGG

03-17-2003, 23:16

Hello Wellington long time no write, In a previous post you mentioned changing the time value to each turn from a year to a week or day etc,I really would like to do this for the ECW mod I'm STILL working on but have only managed to do this by putting 4200 as the start date and changing the AD directly in front of the date on the campaign map to 16 giving 164200. As you can see it takes 100 turns to complete a year so each turn =approx 3.5 days.So what I'm saying is it possible to change it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif cheers MR EGG http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Wellington

03-17-2003, 23:50

Quote[/b] (MR EGG @ Mar. 17 2003,16:16)]
Hi Mr Egg - nice to see you back.

Quote[/b] ]So what I'm saying is it possible to change it

Er ... I was hoping you'd tell me

I noticed you'd changed the date in a screenshot of your ECW campaign - so I presumed it was possible. Also check out ECS's info (in the FAQ sticky) re- end dates in the startpos files.

My idea was simple. Change the AD to the actual year (eg '1796&#39http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and set startdate/enddate to 1 and 200 (for a 200 day tactical campaign).

If you want to investigate this approach and let us know I'm all ears. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Welly

Lord Krazy

03-18-2003, 08:51

This is some cavalry we have been working on.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/lordkrazy/images/4-picture3.gif

http://mysite.freeserve.com/lordkrazy/images/5-picture3.gif

They will added to the units beta
and some others maybe tomorrow.
Just more samples so leave me alone
with the why don't they stuff ok http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
If they don't work tough
The idea is they will.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

kyodai-britishbeef

03-18-2003, 09:48

very nice cav lk http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif im in excited anticipation http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

Lord Krazy

03-18-2003, 14:03

Quote[/b] (kyodai-britishbeef @ Mar. 18 2003,02:48)]very nice cav lk http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif im in excited anticipation http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
We are happy you like them from a distance http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
As soon as we sober up from St Patrick's Day
we'll add them.LBA looks in better shape at the moment,
well the one I can see in my left eye looks ok http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

While your all excited KB mail me please.
kyodai_britishbeef@thelordz.co.uk

thank you
regards

LK

econ21

03-18-2003, 15:58

Just heard about the Napoleonic mod in the Entrance Hall and it sounds fun. I've been thinking about the problem mentioned in that hall about not being able to model squares.

I think one work around would be to class infantry as "spears", so they negate the cavalry charge bonus for a frontal charge and then give them 4 rank bonuses like pikemen. Players would then have a choice between going for 2 ranks to maximise firepower and frontage, or for a deeper formation for melee benefits. If you finetune the stats you should be able to get it so that cavalry would lose crushingly if taking on 4 ranks of infantry (each rank is +1 defence, so a 20% change in kill probabilities).

You would not be able to catch the idea of infantry panicking in the face of a cavalry charge (although you could make pathetic troops "swords" and vary some anti-cav bonuses to catch difference in steadfastness).

However, cavalry should still be pretty lethal in the flank or rear - cavalry in TW is sufficiently fast that it can get such chances. I would give most infantry a smaller anti-cav bonus than spearmen in MTW.

One other thought - on the cavalry, I would give the lance a higher charge bonus but lower attack rating than the sword. In MTW, the lance is just plain better than the sword, but I think that is more debatable in the Napoleonic period. I would also give heavy cavalry a higher attack rating than light, but not massively (say one point or so). British light cavalry at Waterloo stood up pretty well - in the Sid Meier engine Waterloo game, they are roughly equal to the French heavies.

I really think this mod could work and that a Napoleon:TW might eventually come from CA.

PS: Given the greater scale of Napoleonic battles, it might be best to conceive of each unit as rather a large organisation - say a brigade (or even division).

PPS: Those cavalry are beautiful, Lord Krazy; are they Imperial Guard Chasseurs de Cheval?

NagatsukaShumi

03-18-2003, 18:44

LK, you continue to amaze me, well done, its hard to do that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif.

All these screenshots so far always amaze me, your units are very well made.

Wellington

03-18-2003, 20:51

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Mar. 16 2003,06:36)]LK - can you compile a list of 2 things

1) which nationalities are provided for in your plates
2) which unit types, per nationality, are provided for in your plates

... we can then plan this and inform people what 1st offering(s) will be.
LK,

Any info on the above?

Welly

Koukos

03-18-2003, 23:03

Will this mod be finished before the expansion comes out??

Just anxious.

Stormer

03-18-2003, 23:11

looking good LK keep it up.

Cuirassier66

03-18-2003, 23:23

Lord Krazy,

WhoooHooo My beloved Chaesseurs a Cheval de la Garde in full splendour Wonderful work. Keep it coming.

-Cuirassier

Lord Krazy

03-19-2003, 07:25

Quote[/b] (Cuirassier66 @ Mar. 18 2003,16:23)]Lord Krazy,

WhoooHooo My beloved Chaesseurs a Cheval de la Garde in full splendour Wonderful work. Keep it coming.

-Cuirassier
Welcome to the dungeon Cuirassier,

Glad you like the Chaesseurs
Then again seen as your a Lord you'd have to say that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Speaking of Lords Swords of Storm is also
a new and welcome addition to the crew.
"Lord of all things curly"

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Of Storms

03-19-2003, 16:40

Quote[/b] (Lord Krazy @ Mar. 19 2003,00:25)]Speaking of Lords Swords of Storm is also
a new and welcome addition to the crew.
"Lord of all things curly"

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Thanks Lord Krazy, I am glad to be a part of The Lords (notice the sig)I have to add Lord of all things curly Lol http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Cuirassier66

03-19-2003, 18:25

I have moved my posts on the challeneges of using MTW engine for a Napoleonic mod below. Let the discussions continue.

-Cuirassier

Cuirassier66

03-19-2003, 18:29

My passion is Napoleonic Warfare. With all the exciting stuff that is happening at the modder's heaven, the Dungeon, here is my 2 cents worth.

When the original STW was released, my first thought was "My How would a Napoleonic Campaign game look like using this engine?" And frankly it was about time. Enough time has been spent with the crusty old hex grids and the turn based marathon battles. A real time 3D Napoleonic battle game was long overdue.

What are the challenges of using the current MTW engine for a Napoleonic mod?

Infantry:
*******
An average Napoleonic battalion had six companies of 100 to 120 muskets each. A regiment usually had 2 battalions, sometimes three. A brigade was composed of 2 regiments and a division normally had 2 brigades. Variations always existed but this would suffice for a starting point.

For realistic tactical battle simulations I feel that the unit of maneuver should be a battalion, at the most a regiment. A company level simulation would be too taxing on the game engine. I don't even think that one could have enough units to bring in if we went in for company level detail.

Using anything higher than a regiment as the unit of maneuver would really take away the tactical nature of the simulation and some fun. At the end of the day, after all, the Total War series is about fun.

So acting on the hypothesis that we are using a battalion as the fundamental unit of maneuver, here are some of the things that we definitely could do, can not do and just about may be with the MTW engine :

Formations:
*********
Primary weapon : Musket or rifle. Range, rate of reload and fire etc could all be tweaked.

Secondary weapon: Bayonet. No problem here. Infantry could be made to charge with cold steel.

Forming line : No problem. Can do.

Forming a skirmish screen : No problem. Can do.

Attack column: So far as I have experimented, no can do. Attack column was a formation specially favored by the French. It had a frontage of two companies. It had great ease of battlefield movement and good melee capability. But the firepower was reduced compared to a line.
The already existing wedge formation is eminently suited for this role. The wedge has very little firepower but has great shock effect. Could we somehow modify the flocking behavior for the units when ordered to form a wedge so that when we ask the unit to form a wedge it forms a column? He,he

Square: Ah Here is a definite problem. No can do The square was the standard formation used by all infantry of that era against charging cavalry. It was practically invulnerable against charging horse, but was easy pickings for enemy infantry in line and especially for enemy artillery.

March column: So far as I remember, no can do. But this may not be as critical as attack column and square formations.

Special abilities :
Grenadiers had superior melee capability. This could be achieved by giving them some bonus attack points.

Light infantry was deadly in broken terrain, wooded areas and built areas. And again light infantry were far better suited to skirmish tactics than line infantry as they were specially trained. I do not know how we could give light infantry superior skirmishing skills in terrain that is amenable to light infantry tactics. Ubermodders could ponder on this one perhaps.

The following posts would be on cavalry, artillery, command and control, orders of battle etc.

-Cuirassier

Cuirassier66

03-19-2003, 18:32

Cavalry:
*******
Napoleonic cavalry was generally classified into light and heavy.
Hussars, Chasseurs a Cheval, Light Dragoons were the saber wielding light horse.
Lancers (or Uhlans) carried (duh) the lance. They were classified as lights as well.

Heavies could be armored or unarmored. The celebrated Cuirassiers and Carabiniers a Cheval being the armored heavies. Heavy dragoons being the unarmored heavies.

Light cavalry acted as the ears and the eyes of the army. Scouting, outpost duty and rear area security were the traditional light cavalry duties. In pitched battles they could and did charge with their heavier brethren.

Heavy cavalry was trained for one and only purpose in the battlefield. Though ponderous with big men on huge horses, the heavy arm was trained to charge boot to boot to ride down any opposing formation, be it horse or foot.

The basic cavalry unit of maneuver was the regiment. An average Napoleonic cavalry regiment had three squadrons of 150 sabers each. A brigade was composed of 2 regiments and a division normally had 2 brigades. Variations always existed but this would suffice for a starting point.

For realistic tactical battle simulations I feel that the unit of maneuver for the cavalry should be a regiment. A squadron level simulation would be too taxing on the game engine.

So acting on the hypothesis that we are using the regiment as the fundamental unit of maneuver for the cavalry, here are some of the things that we definitely could do, can not do and just about may be with the MTW engine:

Formations:
*********
Primary weapon : Curved saber for the lights, lance for the lancers and straight sword for the heavies. Lethality, ease of use etc could all be tweaked.

Secondary weapon: Musketoon for the dragoons and the Carabiniers a Cheval, carbine for the hussars and Chasseurs a Cheval and pistols for the heavies. No problem here. Cavalry could be made to discharge a volley before charging home with cold steel.

Forming line : No problem. Can do.

Forming a skirmish screen : No problem. Can do. Light cavalry routinely formed in skirmish line before charging artillery.

Attack column: So far as I have experimented, no can do. All heavy cavalry was taught to charge in attack column formation. It had a frontage of a squadron. It had great ease of battlefield movement and a solid battering ram effect. But this formation was very vulnerable to artillery.

The already existing wedge formation is eminently suited for this role. The wedge has very little firepower but has great shock effect. Could we somehow modify the flocking behavior for the units when ordered to form a wedge so that when we ask the unit to form a wedge it forms a column?

March column: So far as I remember, no can do. But this may not be as critical as attack column and square formations.

Special abilities and limitations:

Lancers were deadly against infantry and artillery. Artillery crews especially despised them. Any gunner cowering under the wheels could be speared with ease if under a lancer attack. Against cavalry though lancers tended to be a bit awkward, as the lance could become a bit unwieldy in close combat.
I do not know how MTW engine handles lancers.

Cavalry charging steady infantry in square formation almost always got repulsed. The trick was to catch the infantry as it was undergoing the evolutions needed to form square from line or column. As infantry can not form square in MTW, cavalry could rampage at will in MTW. I do not know how realistic this would be.

And again cavalry would never successfully charge infantry in broken terrain, marshy ground or in built areas. Again I do not fully understand the mechanics of the cavalry charge in MTW.

More in the next post.

As for the mounted fire debate, I think the DECIDING factor in a cavalry vs cavalry melee was always the cold steel. Sure the dragoons and the Carabiniers A Cheval were trained to fire a volley into the opposing lines of charging horse. But the volley was just meant to disrupt the ranks and not to decide the outcome of the engagement forthright. A decision was always forced with the cold steel.

When two bodies of charging horse met, one side that had the lower morale would normally veer away or there would be a clash and a classic cut and thrust melee.

In either case it was the COHESION of the charging regiment that primarily decided the issue and not a puny little fussilade from a set of popgun musketoons.

So for all practical purposes we could let the cavaliers in the Nap mod ignore mounted fire and do what they do best : charge home with cold steel.

And oh, against infantry, it was ridiculous for the cavalry to engage in any sustained fire fight. The range of the carbines and the musketoons were definitely shorter than the standard infantry muskets. And the footsloggers could probably have reloaded atleast twice as fast as the mounted men. No contest here at all

Charge home Charge with the cold steel

Quote (Cuirassier66 @ Mar. 17 2003,17:03)
Wellington, is it possible to mod the formations data files and to get new formations like an attack column or a square?

Wellington's answer:
***************************
Yes and No.

These files only determine the positions of units relative to each other (infantry in the centre, cavalry on the flanks, etc). In other words they determine what formation a whole army assumes.

If you wanted a new formation (eg: French attack) you could probably code a template as such that defined several rows of Infantry with cavaly behind. Eg: with 16 units something like -

I I I I
I I I I
I I I I

C C C C

... if you see what I mean.

To indivual units (I) 'formation' (column/line) can be defined to some degree in prod11 (cant remember the exact names of the fields 'supporting ranks/prefered number of ranks'?).

Squares are not, to my knowledge, possible
******************* End of Wellington's answer

Napoleonic artillery
***************
Napoleonic artillery could be generally classified into foot and horse artillery. Foot gunners walked alongside the guns when maneuvering. Horse gunners, to a man, rode along on their own horses, and thus the celebrated mobility of the horse artillery. It was not for nothing that horse artillery was called as flying artillery. The guns themselves were, of course, pulled by teams of horses.

Artillery was classified as heavy or medium depending upon the weight of the shot that was thrown out. A myriad number of shot weights were being used by the various adversaries of that era. But 6 pounders and 12 pounders were the most common.

The basic unit of battlefield maneuver was invariably the battery. A French artillery battery consisted of 6 cannons, of which 4 were guns and the remaining 2 were howitzers.

All the guns of the Napoleonic era were of the smooth bore type and could fire round shot at a high velocity against either soft or hard targets. Howitzers fired explosive shells in a high trajectory and thus could attack targets behind a ridgeline or inside a building. Howitzers were also smooth bore.

Both guns and howitzers could fire canister (tightly packed musket balls in metallic cans) against soft targets that could be devastatingly effective under short ranges.

The max range for a 12 pounder cannon firing roundshot was around 1800 meters (5905 feet). It was a very rare gun captain that engaged the enemy at such extreme ranges. Effective ranges for a 12 pounder would be in the order of 900 meters (2953 feet)

The max range for a 12 pounder cannon firing canister was around 600 meters (1969 feet). Again effective canister ranges for a 12 pounder would be in the order of 450 meters (1476 feet)

For a typical 6 pounder cannon the ranges would be:
Roundshot max range : 1300 meters (4265 feet)
Roundshot effective range : 700 meters (2297 feet)
Canister max range : 450 meters (1476 feet)
Canister effective range : 350 meters (1148 feet)

For the purpose of doing a Napoleonic mod using MTW, I believe that a battery should be the basic unit of maneuver. I also believe that it would be too cumbersome to differentiate between howitzers and regular guns.

OK, what are the challenges of implementing the Napoleonic artillery arm using the MTW mod?

*The well-known fact that cannons could not move in MTW is a serious problem. Even the relatively ponderous foot artillery moved a bit before and during the battle. Napoleon, being a gunner himself advocated aggressive use of artillery (some would say too aggressive) on the battlefield. Even if we accept that foot artillery did not move that much and are willing to live with immobile cannons for the foot batteries in MTW, what about the horse guns?

*Horse artillery lived and died on its fame for lighting fast maneuvers. Horse guns routinely galloped with charging cavalry to exploit any tactical situation quickly.

So the Napoleonic battlefield would not feel "right" if we did not have flying artillery

One possible solution would be to use the Naptha throwers as horse artillery We could throw away the graphic for the Naptha guys and replace it with some animations of a horse pulling a gun. Once in range, the gun could unlimber and go through the animations of firing a projectile.

Next post : combined arms tactics .

Wellington

03-19-2003, 19:07

C66,

Great stuff. Nice to see your considerable contributions (already&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif to the Nap mod on this thread.

As we now have C66 to contribute to this project (in terms of post's within the Dungeon) I'll be posting a few items regarding what needs to be done to ensure the success of this Nap mod.

One sentence that I'd like to emphasise, from C66, is the following -

Quote[/b] ] What are the challenges of using the current MTW engine for a Napoleonic mod?

This is, to my mind, THE QUESTION that needs to be considered first and foremost, for anyone working on a somewhat different mod (this Nap mod or any other).

Now C66 is on board for contributions I'll start itemising what needs to be done, both in respect of the MTW engine and the points raised by C66.

Welly

Lord Krazy

03-19-2003, 19:31

Four Cavalry units will be posted shortly

Chasseurs a Cheval
Guard Chasseurs a Cheval

Austrian Hussars

Russian Dragoons

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Wellington

03-19-2003, 20:01

Quote[/b] (Lord Krazy @ Mar. 19 2003,12:31)]Four Cavalry units will be posted shortly

Chasseurs a Cheval
Guard Chasseurs a Cheval

Austrian Hussars

Russian Dragoons

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
LK,

Can you itemise the previous post, regarding units per faction, in respect of exactly what type of type of units are provided by for each faction.

Saying infantry/cavalry/artillery tells me we have just 3 units per faction (in respect of prod11).

Now I know we have at least 2 French cavalry units -

- Chasseurs a Cheval
- Guard Chasseurs a Cheval

I also know know that your plates allow for Dragoons and Hussars (for all nationalities?)

Any further clarification?

Wellington

03-19-2003, 22:28

Guys,

I'm now out of this mod. I'll be progressing a "Nap type mod" on my own - simply because its far easier to do things by yourself (if you know how to do them). I'll release my offering when I'm happy with it.

Welly

Lord Krazy

03-20-2003, 06:23

here (http://thelordz.co.uk/zips/Napoleonic_Units_v1.4.zip)is v1.4

Well seen as Welly has left.

We have to go back to the drawing board again.

I tought we were going to have maps and some scripts
in the near future but that's out the window now.
I'll start work on the campaign in aday or two
and LBA can start on a map.To be honest
I'm pretty tired now and going on reserve for awhile
working on this.So this set back has
kind of knocked the wind
out of me.I'm going to get some rest and get back
to you guys in a few days when I will be
in better shape I hope.

Thanks

Regards

Lord Krazy.

kyodai-britishbeef

03-20-2003, 16:07

good job LK , The new cav look really good, i also like the new range graphic, it works well and looks the part. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Is there a guide any where on how to edit the graphics, i would like to help u out with this but need pointing in the right direction. i would love to see a scottish regiment in there. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

Also ive been trying to find some music to replace the medieval stuff, does any one know where i can find some (i.e bag pipes/ pipes and drums etc )

Also im triyn to create some new speech sounds instead of the latin, which might make it abit more authentic.

btw did u get the file i sent u with the unit icons ?

Cuirassier66

03-20-2003, 22:36

Lord Krazy, hei

I played a custom battle yesterday as the French against the British in a cavalry + infantry scanario.

Loved it. It was wonderful to see my chasseurs charging pell mell at the green jackets.

We must think of a way for the infantry to form square though. The way it is now, cavalry would just rule the battlefield.

Regards,
Cuirassier

Lord Of Storms

03-20-2003, 23:40

LK ,You are my hero, thanks for the auto install feature on the latest update 1.4 I am thorughly enjoying this, without all the unzip hassles, I think it will make more accesible to others also , Good job...http://www.emotipad.com/emoticons/Big%20Thumb%20Up.gif http://www.geocities.com/bat3193/smiley6/firework2.gif

Lord Krazy

03-22-2003, 16:42

More Cavalry have been done
They just need to be compiled.
We will do that later today.

Scots Greys and Inniskilling Dragoons
plus Cossack lancers and maybe a few more.

I have noticed while I'v been gone the
last couple of days that only
two of the Lords have posted in this thread.
Is there something going on I should know about
or is everybody just war spotting on CNN? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Black Adder

03-22-2003, 22:48

Hello total war-ers

at day i am at war protests at night i am making war mods
Like you all know Thelordz and many friends are building new mod Napoleon...and is coming on.. I am thinking of cannons in bif at a moment. Do not misanderestemate me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Cuirassier66

03-23-2003, 08:52

Combined Arms Tactics:
********************
Sorry for the long delay. In the previous posts I discussed the infantry, cavalry and the artillery arms separately. We would have a look at the combined arms tactics in this post.

Napoleon was a firm believer in the massed firepower of the guns. A gunner at heart and in training he observed that “it is with artillery that one makes war”. French tactics invariably favored a massed bombardment of the enemy troops prior to the grand assault. Napoleon’s adversaries initially tended to distribute artillery throughout the infantry divisions and even brigades. This scattered employment was never able to counter the ferocity of the French massed onslaught. In the later campaigns Napoleon’s adversaries learned to mass artillery into “grand batteries” of their own. Wagram and Borodino are notable examples of this.

Usually it was the relatively immobile foot artillery that was being used in the grand battery role. Horse artillery almost always galloped with the charging horse.

If the strengths of the opposing armies at the start of the battle were more or less equal, the immediate objective was to gain cavalry superiority. Because any unbroken enemy horse that was marauding in the field would severely hamper the mobility of the attacking infantry.

Provided the enemy horse was willing to engage, the infantry would march forward. For the French , it would almost always be in attack column formation (with a frontage of two companies, approximately 240 muskets wide). Cavalry would march either directly behind or on the flanks with the horse artillery galloping ahead.

Assuming that enemy infantry is met without any cavalry support nearby, all the three arms would work in unison to bring the enemy infantry down. First the supporting horse would feign a charge or in some cases actually charge. This would force the enemy infantry into square as this was the only formation that the infantry could use to defend against charging horse. But the square was terribly vulnerable against infantry or cannon fire.

Thus once the enemy infantry had been forced into square, the attacking infantry would deploy into line and start blasting off. Worse still, the compact enemy infantry square would present an almost unmistakable target for the artillery that would unleash devastating blasts of canister into the square. When the square was seen to be wavering, waiting cavalry would charge home to execute the coup de grace.

This was the theory at least. Many things could and did go wrong. A successful combined arms coordinated attack demanded very skillful timing from a commander wrestling with the battlefield control problems of the Napoleonic era.

-Cuirassier

MR EGG

03-24-2003, 16:37

Very interesting stuff C66 what went wrong at Waterloo? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif BTW if you want any help with this mod give me a shout http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

King David

03-25-2003, 00:59

Very good work LK.

Cuirassier66

03-25-2003, 01:45

Ah, that Mr.Egg, is a different discussion altogether that warrants a thread of its own. But since you touched a topic that is one of my prime periods of interest in Napoleonic warfare, here is my two cents on why Napoleon could not crack the thin red line.

*Lack of his personal tactical control of the battle. He had taken direct tactical control of the battle many a times before, Wagram being a good example. If Marshal Ney’s impetuosity was never in doubt, his battle judgment could at times be a bit rash.

*Committing a better part of an army corps ( 3 divisions) into the futile struggle for Hougoumont. It could have been surpassed. At worst Jerome could have kept the Guards inside honest with just cannons and howitzers.

*Lack of cavalry support for the powerful first corps attack ( 4 divisions) by
Count d Erlon. A puny brigade of cuirassiers was the only flank protection awarded. With the cavalry superiority that Napoleon enjoyed over the Allies, at least a corps of heavy cavalry (2 divisions) should have gone in with the first corps infantry attack. Napoleon would still have had 2 more divisions of heavy cavalry in reserve ( not counting the powerful division of the Imperial Guard heavy cavalry division that is&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

*When the massed cavalry charges did press home, total lack of infantry and horse artillery support for the cavaliers. Had Napoleon been in direct control, he would have immediately rectified this fatal omission.

*Failure to spike the Allied guns, when the French horse was controlling the ridgeline for the 3 hours that the cavalry charges raged on. Not a single cavalryman thought about dismounting and spiking the guns that were abandoned with the cavalry swirling around.

I could go on and on. It is, as I said, a separate thread. You could email me separately if you want to discuss this.

Cuirassier66

03-25-2003, 02:06

Combined arms tactics continued:
**************************
As I mentioned in my previous post, during the Napoleonic Wars, all the three arms were beautifully balanced and a combined arms attack was vital for a successful outcome.

The challenge for us MTW modders as far as the combined arms tactics is this: “How do we make the AI use proper combined arms tactics?”

It is one thing with clever modding to simulate a square formation. But how do we make the AI put the infantry in square formation when being threatened by cavalry? And again how do we make the AI make feigned cavalry charges so that infantry goes into square so that the AI artillery could blast them apart?

I saw the other day a battalion of French light infantry in line formation charging a regiment of Russian dragoons I have no explanation for their behavior

So the challenges are :

*How do we give the infantry a square formation?

*How do we make the AI use this square formation when being threatened by cavalry?

*How do we make the AI realize that enemy infantry is in square and could be blasted away by cannon fire?

I have looked at some of the Crusaders_Unit_Prod11.txt file entries.
Some of the unit attributes look interesting.
These are the
“CavAttackBonus”
"CavDefenseBonus” and
“Units this unit is fearful of”.

Obviously “CavAttackBonus” for infantry should be set to 0. Infantry does NOT charge cavalry. Period.

"CavDefenseBonus” for infantry could be set to maximum. But I don’t know how we could qualify this bonus depending upon the formation the infantry is in. Clearly an infantry unit in skirmish formation would be much more nervous looking at a regiment of charging horse than a battalion of infantry in solid square. I would need some input from veteran modders as to whether we could change this bonus depending upon the formation type.

Regards,
Cuirassier

Cuirassier66

03-25-2003, 06:00

Does anybody know how to decipher the formation templates in the FormationData folder?

I found some interesting stuff in the HistoricFormations.txt
The SQUARE formation is described as follows: Could somebody help me to deipher the fields?

;****************************************************************
;Square
;This a three sided rectangle actually.
;For those occasions when you're feeling insecure
;****************************************************************
Template Square
;;; Flags
HistoricalTemplate
Defend
Priority 0

Slot 0 ;Unused
MaxUnits 0
XPos 0 absolute
ZPos 0 absolute
EndSlot 0
Slot 1 ;Unused
MaxUnits 0
XPos 0 absolute
ZPos 0 absolute
EndSlot 1

Slot 2 ;Central cavalry mass
;;; Restrictions
;; MaxWidth 30
MinWidth 30

;;; Slot position
XPos 0 absolute
ZPos -30 absolute

;;; Unit Info and hints
General

;; Unit Types
UnitType GeneralOnly 1.0
UnitType HeavyMounted 1.0
EndSlot 2

Slot 3 ;Left side light cavalry
Optional

;;; Restrictions
;; MaxWidth 30
MinWidth 30

;;; Slot position
XPos -3 relativeTo 2
ZPos 0 relativeTo 2

;;; Unit Info and hints
NotGeneral

;; Unit Types
UnitType LightMounted 1.0
UnitType Mounted 0.5
EndSlot 3

Slot 4 ;Right side light cavalry
Optional

;;; Restrictions
;; MaxWidth 30
MinWidth 30

;;; Slot position
XPos 3 relativeTo 2
ZPos 0 relativeTo 2

;;; Unit Info and hints
NotGeneral

;; Unit Types
UnitType LightMounted 1.0
UnitType Mounted 0.5
EndSlot 4

Slot 5 ;Dummy slot spanning 2 and 3
Spans 2 and 3
EndSlot 5

Slot 6 ;Dummy slot spanning all three cavalry slots
Spans 4 and 5
EndSlot 6

Slot 7 ;Left side outward facing archers
Optional
Priority 0.5

;;;Restrictions
MaxUnits 2

;;; Slot position
XPos -15 relativeTo 6
ZPos 0 relativeTo 6

;;; Unit Info and hints
NotGeneral
Angle -90
NumRows 3

;; Unit Types
UnitType MissileInfantry 1.0
UnitType MissileMounted 0.5
EndSlot 7

Slot 8 ;Left side outward facing infantry
Optional
Priority 0.6

;;;Restrictions
; Width fixed 20
; Depth fixed 20
MaxUnits 2

;;; Slot position
XPos -5 relativeTo 7
ZPos 0 relativeTo 7

;;; Unit Info and hints
NotGeneral
Angle -90
NumRows 3

;; Unit Types
UnitType HeavyInfantry 1.0
UnitType MediumInfantry 0.5
EndSlot 8

Slot 9 ;Right side outward facing archers
Optional
Priority 0.5

;;;Restrictions
; Width fixed 20
; Depth fixed 20
MaxUnits 2

;;; Slot position
XPos 15 relativeTo 6
ZPos 0 relativeTo 6

;;; Unit Info and hints
NotGeneral
Angle 90
NumRows 3

;; Unit Types
UnitType MissileInfantry 1.0
UnitType MissileMounted 0.5
EndSlot 9

Slot 10 ;Right side outward facing infantry
Optional
Priority 0.6

;;;Restrictions
; Width fixed 20
; Depth fixed 20
MaxUnits 2

;;; Slot position
XPos 5 relativeTo 9
ZPos 0 relativeTo 9

;;; Unit Info and hints
NotGeneral
Angle 90
NumRows 3

;; Unit Types
UnitType HeavyInfantry 1.0
UnitType MediumInfantry 0.5
EndSlot 10

Slot 11 ;Dummy slot spanning entire width of square
Spans 7 and 9
EndSlot 11

Slot 12 ;Artillery
Optional

;;; Restrictions
Width relativeTo 6

;;; Slot position
XPos 0 absolute
ZPos -20 relativeTo 6

;;; Unit Info and hints
InterUnitSpacing 5

;; Unit Types
UnitType Artillery 1.0
EndSlot 12

Slot 13 ;Defensive Infantry line
;;; Restrictions
MinUnits 2
Width relativeTo 11
MaxDepth 5

;;; Slot position
XPos 0 absolute
ZPos 0 absolute

;;; Unit Info and hints
NotGeneral
NumRows 2

;; Unit Types
UnitType HeavyInfantry 1.0
UnitType NonMissileInfantry 0.8
EndSlot 13

Slot 14 ;Missile line
;;; Restrictions
MinUnits 2
Width relativeTo 13
WidthFactor 0.95

;;; Slot position
XPos 0 absolute
ZPos -10 relativeTo 13

;;; Unit Info and hints
NotGeneral
NumRows 2

;; Unit Types
UnitType MissileInfantry 1.0
UnitType MissileMounted 0.5
EndSlot 14

EndTemplate Square

Lord Krazy

03-25-2003, 14:03

Quote[/b] (Cuirassier66 @ Mar. 24 2003,23:00)]I found some interesting stuff in the HistoricFormations.txt
The SQUARE formation is described as follows: Could somebody help me to deipher the fields?
That's for using square as a group formation.

It's an option but everything is at this stage http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Krazy

03-25-2003, 14:39

With regard to the Waterloo, IMHO the Prussians
showing up on the flank as they did was the only thing
that stopped Napoleon on the Day.

Seen as the rest of Europe was preparing to march on France it would not have made much difference in the long
term, even if he did win the battle of Waterloo.

If anyone thinks the Prussians did not make the difference
Would be happyy to simulate the battle playing as the Allies without the Prussians. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

This would be nice as I always wanted to know how
the French could have been beaten soly by the British forces on the day.Even with the amount of stupid
things the french managed to do in a single morning
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

French Millitary planning at the time did
not take into account, whole armies
showing on your flank by surprise
half way through a battle.
If it did I'm sure it would have
pointed out. that you were in a bad sitution
no matter who you were fighting.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Krazy

03-25-2003, 14:54

Quote[/b] (King David @ Mar. 24 2003,17:59)]Very good work LK.
Thank you KD.

Don't forget LBA and the other Lords.

This is not a one man show http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Cuirassier66

03-25-2003, 20:04

LK,

Do you have any inkling as to how to make this square formation available under the group formations option?

-Cuirassier

econ21

03-26-2003, 01:30

Cuirassier, remember the MTW combat model looks at the difference between the attack and defence stats, with each one differential raising kill probabilities by 20%. Given this, you probably don't want to raise infantry's cav defence bonus too much.

I would start with the basic stats for a spear and cav_sword (available in the CA crusaders_unit.prod11.xls file in the downloads section):
spear: 0 attack, 1 defence, 2 rank bonus, 1 cav att bonus, 4 cav def bonus
cav_sword 2 attack, 0 defence

These clearly favour the spear over cavalry in a frontal clash (infantry attacks at +1, cavalry at -5&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. This might not be too silly - forcing the cavalry to go for the flanks. But you probably want a little more powerful cav, so you might want to reduce the cav defence bonus from 4 to something lower. You could even try setting it to 0, so that the infantry needs to rank up (and fire&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif to prevail frontally.

BTW: I think the AI responds to the numbers - in Shogun and MTW it was common for me to see AI spears chasing my cavalry around the map It seems to crunch the numbers better than we do.

Demon of Light

03-26-2003, 23:41

Originally posted in Entrance Hall by a new member(hal269091 ):

To the Lords and Wellington

I was fascinated by the Napoleonic era ever since and I've done lots of research and reading about this time, especially in regards of the military aspect of the subject.

Unfortunately there is no game dealing with warefare in these times and so I was very excited, when I first found this thread. Especially when I realised that some of the most gifted modders posting in this forum would take part.

So it was kind of a pain to see Wellington leave the team and starting to work for his own Nap Mod.

What has happened? Wouldn't it be better, to merge abilities and efforts together. In my - the forum newbie's opinion - a mod like this needs both: The analytical brain of Welly with his very systematic approach to all problems and the gifted abilities of the Lords in actually modding units and graphics. What a waist of energy and effort to do two mods about the same subject.

Don't you think that there might be a way to get over it and start cooperating again?

Just my thoughts (and it was so important for me to say that - it actually was the reason I decided to actively take part in this forum). Not meant to offend anyone.

Anyway - I would prefer to see you back in one team again but in case you won't like to do that, I offer my - limited - services to anyone of the both teams. As my free time is few I probably will not be able to take part in establishing the conceptional structure of this mod but I can fulfill clearly stated and "non-epic" tasks.

My knowledge about this time is quite well and over the time I've collected a number of some 400 books about Uniforms and warfare in the time of Napoleon. So I probably could provide you with data about and images of leaders and uniforms of that time. My photoshop skills are good enough to mod graphics of other games - so they probably will be good enough for mtw as well - and I have a scanner.

As I would really like to play a mod like that I'm very willing also to do some work for it. Just tell me what you need and I tell you if I can do it and - if yes - when it will be ready.

Again I would like to repeat, that it was double fun for me to work for a reunited team but finally it's - of course - your decision.

Best wishes to all of you
Hal

Cuirassier66

03-27-2003, 03:25

Welcome oh Demon of Light,

A cheerful salute from a Napoleonic nut to a fellow one.
We may yet see the "factions" merge So do not loose heart.

Thanks for your support.

Best Regards,
Cuirassier

Cuirassier66

03-27-2003, 04:25

Command and Control, Order of Battle etc
**********************************
In the previous posts I discussed the infantry, cavalry, artillery and combined arms tactics. This one would be about how to model large Napoleonic armies using MTW engine.

For starters let me recapitulate the command structure of a Napoleonic army. I will use the French army structure as an example. But this would, with minor variations apply to most of the armies of the era.

The battalion was the basic unit of maneuver in the infantry. A battalion had between 6 and 9 companies. Each company had approximately 120 muskets. Thus at full strength (which was a rarity), a battalion could number between 720 and 1080 muskets. The average was somewhere between 600 and 800 muskets.

I believe that the MTW Napoleonic mod (hereafter referred to as MTW-N Mod) should use a battalion as the basic unit. Thus I would not get into the sub units structure in a battalion (like the grenadier companies, fusilier companies and the light companies). So we could use a 60 man unit to abstract a 600 man battalion. So far so good.

A regiment usually consisted of 2 battalions, sometimes 3 and very rarely 4 field battalions. It would be safe to assume that a regiment had two field battalions. Usually a regiment consisted of soldiers from the same geographical area. (Flanders regiment, Tiralleurs du Corse etc etc). A full colonel commanded a regiment. Battalions were usually commanded by lieutenant colonels, sometimes by majors.

A brigade usually had two regiments and would be commanded by a brigadier. A division usually had two brigades, very rarely three. The French, at times would have two brigades of line infantry and a single regiment of light infantry forming its own brigade. Leaving such exotic examples aside, it would be safe to assume that a division would have two brigades. A major general would normally command a division.

An army corps would have between 2 and three divisions and be commanded either by a lieutenant general or by a marshal. An French army corps would invariably be a combined arms force (infantry, cavalry and artillery) and indeed this combination was one of the secrets behind Napoleon’s operational flexibility. In the later stages his opponents too would try to emulate his corps system with some reasonable success. So before dissecting an army corps we have to look at the command and control structure for the cavalry and the artillery.

The regiment was the basic unit of maneuver in the cavalry. A regiment had between 3 and 5 squadrons. Each squadron had approximately 150 sabers. Thus at full strength (which was a rarity), a regiment could number between 450 and 750 sabers. The average was somewhere between 300 and 500 sabers.

I believe that the MTW-N Mod should use a regiment as the basic unit for cavalry. Thus I would not get into the sub units structure in a cavalry regiment (like the grenadier companies, fusilier companies and the light companies). So we could use a 50 man unit to abstract a 500 man cavalry regiment. A full colonel commanded a regiment.

A brigade usually had two regiments and would be commanded by a brigadier. A cavalry division usually had two brigades, very rarely three. A major general would normally command a cavalry division.

Napoleon was a firm believer in the shock action (at the right time of course) after he had witnessed the spectacular charge by a body of heavy cavalry led by Kellerman at Marengo. He took care to mass the heavy divisions into reserve corps of cavalry, with 2 to 3 divisions per corps.

The battery was the basic unit of maneuver in the artillery. A battery, foot or horse, almost always had 4 guns and two howitzers. Each infantry division usually had an artillery complement of one battery of foot artillery and was under the division commander. This would invariably be comprised of 6 pounders. In addition to this the corps commander would have an artillery reserve of a heavy battery. This would normally have 12 pounder guns. A battery of artillery needed around 120 highly trained gunners. In a pinch, the line grenadiers and the Guards could man the batteries (and in many occasions they did). The line grenadiers and the Imperial Guardsmen were the only footsloggers that had some basic artillery training.

A heavy division of cavalry almost always marched with an elite battery of horse guns comprised of 6 pounders. Light cavalry divisions did not have the luxury of accompanying horse artillery. The batteries would have been an encumbrance anyways for the swift marching light cavalry

An army corps invariably had a brigade of light cavalry for scouting work. Sometimes it would have a full division of light cavalry.

Thus we see that an army corps would have 3 divisions of infantry, 3 light batteries and 1 to 2 heavy batteries and a division of light cavalry.

So much for the actual organization. In the next post I will discuss how we could model the army and command structure using the MTW engine.

-Cuirassier

Lord Krazy

03-27-2003, 09:23

Quote[/b] ]So much for the actual organization. In the next post I will discuss how we could model the army and command structure using the MTW engine.

That should be interesting http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I tought about this alot and forgot rather quickly
to move on to things that did not require so much tought
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
----------------------------------------------------------

Simon,
thanks for the input http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
-----------------------------------------------------------

Demon of Light,
Welcome http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Quote[/b] ]My photoshop skills are good enough to mod graphics of other games - so they probably will be good enough for mtw as well - and I have a scanner.

I would tend to concur. One bitmap is pretty much the
same as another.The words photoshop and skill are not
used in conjunction enough around here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Even if the word skill is used in the loose term.
I only read the manual once, can't remember what version
neither.So you could even be over qualified.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

As for book sources I have a few too.
The few books I have contain more uniform images
of the period in question than units available to MTW
so we will have to go generic to a certain extent also.
Like all good generals we must adapt to conditions
on the battlefield. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Quote[/b] ]So it was kind of a pain to see Wellington leave the team and starting to work for his own Nap Mod.

What has happened? Wouldn't it be better, to merge abilities and efforts together. In my - the forum newbie's opinion - a mod like this needs both: The analytical brain of Welly with his very systematic approach to all problems and the gifted abilities of the Lords in actually modding units and graphics. What a waist of energy and effort to do two mods about the same subject.

Well as for the first bit, you know as much as I do.

I read the same post you did so why people think
I should be able to decifer it in a clearer way,
I don't know.

Wellingtons abilities are not in doubth
as for the gifted Lords bit
well that can only be described by a word, I
can't use as moderator http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Our dedication and honesty is second to none
however.
The Lords have been working on this for months
and invested a lot of time and energy into it.
We wished to make a mod for the period but also a template
for creating similar mods for different regions
in the late and early parts of the musket era.
So we did expect others to create similar mods.
Mind you I had not tought so soon http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Quote[/b] ]Don't you think that there might be a way to get over it and start cooperating again?

Well I don't know what to get over and I have not
stopped cooperating with anyone nor do i have any intention
of not cooperating with anyone.
I just want to make good mod for a great game,
no big deal like.
If it all comes togeather and
we make a popular vibrante mod well that's great.
If it all falls apart in the end and all we are left with
is a hundred animations, several campaigns,
a host of graphics for campmap,
battle folder and front end,plus new units
and production files, well great.

As far as I'm concerned this is a win win situation.
Wellington is working on software to automate
alot of these processes. Like all software it will
still need data.
Seen as I doubth the first versions will be
voice activated the data will have to come
by conventional means.In other words writing
text files and drawing bitmaps.

Quote[/b] ]Anyway - I would prefer to see you back in one team again but in case you won't like to do that, I offer my - limited - services to anyone of the both teams

Well if you wish to help our team contact me at
TheLords@thelordz.co.uk

Wellington stated he was going to work by himself
so the word team seems inappropriate.
Consider your first argument

Quote[/b] ]The analytical brain of Welly with his very systematic approach to all problems
combine that with Wellingtons statment
= no team.
This way he can avoid the multilateral thinking
that is brought about by team work and at times can be frustrating and distracting.

At the end of the day we're just a bunch of fans
having a laugh.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
That's not to say we don't care,
we just don't care that much http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Like I said before in reference to myself,
this is not a one man show.
That applies to everybody.
We felt that if we could get as much beta
animations and other graphics asap and release
them that this would be a good start.
This is not the normal way to do things.
First you do the dynamics then the graphics
after.I felt the only way to get people onside
was to show them what it could look like.
Seen as all pervious attempts by text failed.

Once people have the raw materials
at their disposal they will make things.
That way the community can join in or
do their own thing. I would like to see other people
doing mods for the 18th, 19th century.
Ranger lee is working on maps for Gettysburg
for example. Which units will be provided for.

So I hope I made myself clear.
(famous last words)

You are not the first person to ask me this
hence the long answere it is a general
responce to all who asked so don't take it
personaly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

Thanks
regards,

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Emp. Conralius

03-28-2003, 01:10

just downloaded new mod. Great start LK ARe you updating it?

Here are 2 small problems I've encountered:
- all Napoleonic units don't have a death animation, they all stand for a minute, and then appear on the ground
-the infantry units seem to have no life, they just stand there

Are you working on sharpening the sprites, they seem kinda rough? Hope I'm not being too critical, but for the most part it's a great mod and I cant put it down

Axelthorpe

03-28-2003, 14:44

Hi

Remember me? Well i'm back (more or less anyway)
I love to help you out if there's anything you need help with.

I tried making units in 3d, rendering them in different poses, but it was a little too much work for me (I gave up during the final toutches on the model).

Anyway if there is anything I can do to help, I'm here.
I know more about late 17th-century warfare, than napoleonic, but I have developed a taste for some napoleon action lately.

By the way, does someone know any good books or pages on this subject? Not too deep on the subject to begin with.

Lord Krazy

03-28-2003, 15:21

Quote[/b] (Emp. Conralius @ Mar. 27 2003,18:10)]just downloaded new mod. Great start LK ARe you updating it?

Here are 2 small problems I've encountered:
- all Napoleonic units don't have a death animation, they all stand for a minute, and then appear on the ground
-the infantry units seem to have no life, they just stand there

Are you working on sharpening the sprites, they seem kinda rough? Hope I'm not being too critical, but for the most part it's a great mod and I cant put it down
Emp. Conralius,
Well if only consider them small problems then we share a point of view. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The Stuff you downloaded and the next several updates
will be very rough (thanks for understating the facts) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

They are just example of what we are trying to achieve.
If I were to list all the known defects of said units
it would be longer than most peoples I whould think.
They will be sharpend up and improved.
Seen as they could not be any more basic then they
stand at present.Just like all things the better you
desire it to be the longer it takes to achieve it.
Also please bare in mind we are top class amatures http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
So our idea of improvment my not be yours.
But we will try http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Thanks for the feed back
BTW you don't sound critical just realistic. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

regards

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Krazy

03-28-2003, 15:33

Quote[/b] (Axelthorpe @ Mar. 28 2003,07:44)]Hi

Remember me? Well i'm back (more or less anyway)
I love to help you out if there's anything you need help with.

I tried making units in 3d, rendering them in different poses, but it was a little too much work for me (I gave up during the final toutches on the model).

Anyway if there is anything I can do to help, I'm here.
I know more about late 17th-century warfare, than napoleonic, but I have developed a taste for some napoleon action lately.

By the way, does someone know any good books or pages on this subject? Not too deep on the subject to begin with.
Hi Alex,
My memroy is not that bad http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
I remember the very promising work you were doing.
I understand how it became too much.
The methods we are using now may be more suited to you.
It's not as nice but more realistic in human resources.

Mail me at TheLords@thelordz.co.uk
I'd be glad to hear from you.
Thank's.

Regards,

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Demon of Light

03-28-2003, 20:15

I thank Lord Krazy and Cuirassier66 for their replies to the post I placed here but I should note that the words were not mine. I was posting that message on behalf of hal269091. Next time I'll italasize the part of the message where I say this. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Lord Krazy

03-28-2003, 23:40

Version 1.5 (http://thelordz.co.uk/zips/Napoleonic_Units_v1.5.zip)
can be downloaded here.

It's 7.6megs

Contains all the stuff from 1.4
plus 13 more cavalry units.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Emp. Conralius

03-29-2003, 18:40

great stuff JUST GOT 1.5 its great

Brother Derfel

03-29-2003, 19:49

LK, Great Work

I love the new cav units. I just played a massive Britian v France game.

I limited the amount of Cav though, cos without the option of square yet they are a little powerful.

Keep up the great work, I expect to see some cannon next http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

komninos

03-31-2003, 08:57

Hi all,

Since Napoleonic era is the first time that artillery regiments were formed and mass artillery was used ... have you found a way to do it or you will simulate it ... an how?

Shahed

03-31-2003, 12:02

In one word

AMAZING

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

hal269091

03-31-2003, 15:25

@LK

Got the first some 15 portraits ready. Wellington would be a nice avatar for Welly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif .

But one question. Where did you get the bmp's from you sent to me? I noticed that some of them are done after original portraits but some others I couldn't identify - is there a list with names you could send to me.

Should I post some oft the portraits here?

I'm as well thinking about changing the UI (Text boxes, window frames, backgrounds etc.) from the medieval to a more "Nap-like" style. Do we have a need for that or is it already done (or at least begun) by someone?

BTW - I 've been promoted I'm senior patron now - just a few steps from galactic emperor http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

Best wishes
Hal

Lord Krazy

03-31-2003, 17:40

Quote[/b] ]great stuff JUST GOT 1.5 its great

The Lords thank you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Quote[/b] ]Keep up the great work, I expect to see some cannon next

Do you mean artillery soldiers or cannon?
If you mean soldiers, the answere is yes.

Quote[/b] ]Since Napoleonic era is the first time that artillery regiments were formed and mass artillery was used ... have you found a way to do it or you will simulate it ... an how

Yes by making the cannon a unit like the rest.
So if the unit contains ten men it cotains ten
guns.It's still being tested for dynamics
and practicality.

Quote[/b] ]In one word
AMAZING

You should like the rest of it so http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Lord Krazy

03-31-2003, 17:49

Quote[/b] (hal269091 @ Mar. 31 2003,08:25)]

Quote[/b] ]Got the first some 15 portraits ready. Wellington would be a nice avatar for Welly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif .

Well done and yes it would.

Quote[/b] ]but some others I couldn't identify

Good I hope no one else does neither.
If they do we will just deny it ok http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
One of them looks my grand dad http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Quote[/b] ]I'm as well thinking about changing the UI (Text boxes, window frames, backgrounds etc.) from the medieval to a more "Nap-like" style.

It's part of the plan so if you can do this great http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Quote[/b] ]Should I post some oft the portraits here?

Ye sure http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Quote[/b] ]BTW - I 've been promoted I'm senior patron now

You reep what you sow.

I'll be touch very soon.

Thanks.

regards,

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Cuirassier66

04-01-2003, 01:39

Continuing on the theme of army organization and orders of battle:

I believe The MTW engine does not allow more than 16 units per army. I also think that you could bring in multiple armies to the battle at various times as reinforcements and each army still has the 16 units restriction. Apparently there is no limit on the number of armies being brought in as reinforcements as far as the program logic is concerned. But the HW capabilities of the PC config may place limits on this number.

Ubermodders, correct me if I am wrong on this.

I am going out on a limb and assuming that multiple armies on the same battlefield are possible. If such is the case, we could model each DIVISON as an army in MTW engine terms. I am also assuming that the battalion is the basic unit for infantry and the regiment is the basic unit for cavalry. For the artillery I think a battery of artillery should be represented by a single cannon (and its attendant gunner figures).

Let’s look at a typical army corps in the French army. (The discussion could easily be transported to British, Prussian or Austrian armies of the era). As mentioned earlier, the corps would consist of (typically) 3 infantry divisions (each with accompanying artillery) , a light cavalry division and a battery of heavy guns as the corps artillery reserve. How do we model this in MTW?

An infantry division (typically) would have two brigades of two regiments each , the regiments in turn having 2 battalions each. Thus we have (typically) 8 battalions per infantry division. These could be modeled by 8 musketeer units of 60 figures each. Each figure in the unit would represent about 10 actual soldiers. This nicely reflects the typical average infantry battalion field strengths of 500 to 600 muskets.

In addition we should have a cannon unit that represents the divisional foot battery. I believe that using 6 separate figures for the 6 individual cannons/howitzers would clutter the battlefield too much. We are representing a 600 man battalion by a 60 figures unit. Thus we should scale down the artillery as well. A battery typically had a 120 man gunner company serving it. This company could be abstracted by a unit that has 10 figures.

Thus an infantry division would have 8 units of musketeers (60 figures per unit) with each unit representing a battalion and one unit of artillery (10 gunner figures and a single cannon image) that would represent the divisional foot battery. That makes up 9 units per army in MTW parlance. It is well below the 16 units limit.

Exotic cases like some divisions fielding three brigades or some regiments fielding more than two filed battalions could also be accommodated by this model.

The army general should have the divisional battery as his own unit in MTW parlance. Close presence of the army general in MTW boosts army morale. In real life the close support of divisional guns boosted the morale of the infantry. So this jells nicely.

The three infantry divisions could be represented as three armies, each with their battalion and foot battery abstractions and each with their divisional general unit.

The corps cavalry division (having 4 regiments usually) and the corps artillery reserve could be represented as a separate army. Each cavalry regiment would be represented by a 60 figures of mounted men (nicely abstracting a regiment of 500 to 600 sabers). The corps artillery reserve of the heavy foot battery would again be represented by a single cannon figure and 10 gunner figures. The corps commander would have to have the corps reserve battery as his “own” unit.

Unfortunately I don’t see any means of representing the brigade commanders. Nor do I foresee any means of giving individual names to battalions and regiments etc. The MTW army organization forces us to use generic names such as French Guard Infantry, English Elite Infantry, Prussian Landwehr Cavalry and Austrian Cuirassiers instead of specific unit names like 1 Battalion/Ist Guard Grenadiers, 2nd Battalion Black Watch, 2nd Regiment Pommeranian Landwehr Cavalry and Leib Cuirassiers etc. But I guess we will have to just to live with it.

Heavy cavalry divisions could be modeled along similar lines. A division of heavies usually had 4 to five regiments that could each be modeled by 60 mounted man figures. The divisional horse battery that always galloped with the heavies could be modeled as a single cannon with ten MOUNTED figures representing the gunner company.

I do not know if leaders like Napoleon, Wellington and Blucher could be modeled using the Hero figures that MTW uses ( Charlemagne, Salahuddin etc). It would be great if we could do that since the presence of legendary leaders such as the Emperor and the Duke lifted the morale of the armies to fever high pitches. Again, I would like to have some inputs from Ubermodders on this

In the next post I would enumerate all the challenges that I have listed of using the MTW engine for a Napoleonic mod.

-Cuirassier

Cuirassier66

04-01-2003, 03:01

Before I jump to the specific challenges let me take a French army corps that participated in the battle of Waterloo (mother of all battles IMHO&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and try to model it using the method outlines above. The corps in questions is the second corps of the French army commanded by General Reille. The order of battle (OOB) for that particular corps is given below:

II Corps
General Reille (Corps Commander)

Corps Artillery Reserve
12 pounder heavy artillery battery
6-pdr foot artillery battery
6-pdr horse artillery battery

Corps commander and the corps reserve artillery is to be modeled as an army in MTW

5th Infantry Division
Division Commander : General Bachelu
1st Brigade (Husson)
3rd Line Regiment(2 Bns),
61st Line Regiment (2 Bns)
2nd Brigade (Campi)
72nd Line Regiment (2 Bns),
108th Line Regiment (3 Bns)
Divisional commander, the individual battalions and the divisional artillery is to be modeled as an army in MTW. 9 units of 60 musketeers each for the 9 battalions. No divisional artillery here. Div commander should be associated with the first battalion of the first regiment in the first brigade. Brigade commanders could not be modeled.

6th Division
Division Commander : Prince Jerome
1st Brigade
1st Light (3 Bns)
2nd Light (4 Bns)
2nd Brigade
1st Line (3 Bns)
2nd Line (3 Bns)
Divisional commander, the individual battalions and the divisional artillery is to be modeled as an army in MTW. 13 units of 60 musketeers each for the 13 battalions. No divisional artillery here. Div commander should be associated with the first battalion of the first regiment in the first brigade. Brigade commanders could not be modeled.

9th Division
Division Commander : General Foy
1st Brigade (Gauthier)
92nd Line (2 Bns),
93rd Line (3 Bns)
2nd Brigade (Lamin)
100th Line (3 Bns),
4th Light (3 Bns)

Divisional commander, the individual battalions and the divisional artillery is to be modeled as an army in MTW. 11 units of 60 musketeers each for the 11 battalions. No divisional artillery here. Div commander should be associated with the first battalion of the first regiment in the first brigade. Brigade commanders could not be modeled.

2nd Cav Division
Division Commander : General Pire
1st Brigade (Hubert)
1st Chasseurs,
6th Chasseurs
2nd Brigade (Wathiez)
5th Lancers,
6th Lancers
Divisional commander and the individual regiments are to be modeled as an army in MTW. 4 units of 60 mounted men each for the 4 regiments. No divisional artillery here. Div commander should be associated with the first regiment in the first brigade. Brigade commanders could not be modeled.

-Cuirassier

Lord Krazy

04-01-2003, 21:41

Battle Sounds for testing (http://thelordz.co.uk/zips/Sounds_For_Battle.zip)

Let us know what you think.

Thanks

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Cuirassier66

04-02-2003, 22:51

The new units and the sounds are absolutely terrific LK. I love my Carabiniers a Cheval and Cuirassiers.

I have an old machine (Pentium 3, 455 MHz). MTW would not let me use any other resolution than 800 x 600. Do you have any clue as to why?

Best Regards,
Sivakumar

Cuirassier66

04-02-2003, 22:52

The challenges of using MTW engine for a Napoleonic Mod:
************************************************
In the following I shall list some of the challenges that would be encountered by any modder to adapt the MTW engine for Napoleonic battles.
I have (partial) solutions for some of the challenges. For others I don’t. I would be thankful to get some inputs from other modders.

Challenge #1: How to make infantry form square when being charged by cavalry? The square formation should be nearly impervious to a cavalry charge but should be vulnerable to volley fire from deployed infantry and should be very vulnerable to artillery.

Challenge # 2: How model light infantry being deadly in woods, forests, broken terrain and built-up areas? A unit of light infantry in skirmish formation in the terrain types mentioned above should receive extra morale and sharpshooting bonuses.

Challenge # 3: How make infantry form attack columns? This formation should reduce the firepower by 60% but should greatly increase the morale and the melee strength of the attackers.

Challenge # 4: How to model artillery that moved on the battlefield?

Challenge # 5: How to model large Napoleonic era battles under the limitations of the MTW engine? A battle like Waterloo had approximately 70000 combatants per side and there were 3 sides / factions (The French, Anglo-Dutch-German and the Prussians).

Challenge # 6: How to build the orders of battles for the Napoleonic era battles under the limitations of the MTW engine? It would be nice if we could give specific names to individual 60 man units like : 1 Battalion 13th Legere, 1st Battalion Coldstream Guards, 2 Battalion 2nd Grenadiers etc.

Lord Of Storms

04-03-2003, 01:03

Quote[/b] (Cuirassier66 @ April 02 2003,15:51)]The new units and the sounds are absolutely terrific LK. I love my Carabiniers a Cheval and Cuirassiers.

I have an old machine (Pentium 3, 455 MHz). MTW would not let me use any other resolution than 800 x 600. Do you have any clue as to why?

Best Regards,
Sivakumar
Sounds like you need to update your vid card drivers mate...

kyodai-britishbeef

04-03-2003, 10:10

[QUOTE]Challenge # 5: How to model large Napoleonic era battles under the limitations of the MTW engine? A battle like Waterloo had approximately 70000 combatants per side and there were 3 sides / factions (The French, Anglo-Dutch-German and the Prussians).

my solution to this (as with many battles i have recreated) is to accurratly represent the units present at the battles, i.e 70000, would become 3000 and the forces in the 70000 would be given a percent value and then the same percent value would be used to create the units on the mtw battle field, thus keeping the accuracy but in smaller numbers.

Or smaller senarios can be created , such as the siege of le hay sainte .

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

Cuirassier66

04-03-2003, 18:48

Thanks Kyodai

I was thinking along those lines myself. Refer to my earlier posts on the army organization and OOB.

I suggested that each 60 man unit reprsent a battalion with 600 muskets. Even with this 10:1 scaling we might run into a problem.

The French had around 70000, the Anglo-Dutch-German had around 70000 and the Prussians appeared later in the flank with another 60000 or so. With 10:1 rule that makes around 20000 figures to animate.

Would the MTW system be able to handle that?

-Cuirassier

Lord Krazy

04-03-2003, 19:18

Quote[/b] (Cuirassier66 @ April 03 2003,11:48)]Thanks Kyodai

I was thinking along those lines myself. Refer to my earlier posts on the army organization and OOB.

I suggested that each 60 man unit reprsent a battalion with 600 muskets. Even with this 10:1 scaling we might run into a problem.

The French had around 70000, the Anglo-Dutch-German had around 70000 and the Prussians appeared later in the flank with another 60000 or so. With 10:1 rule that makes around 20000 figures to animate.

Would the MTW system be able to handle that?

-Cuirassier
It is possible to reduce the size of the sprites
and that would give you other options.
I have yet to hear anybodies views on this.
I have mentioned it before but no takers yet.
Why? Is it that mad an idea?
I have a sample, they would be in
scale with the houses and tents
at the size I refer to

btw 20000 figures is not a problem
for mtw.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Stormer

04-03-2003, 19:36

LK is the mod out yet

if not when?

Cuirassier66

04-03-2003, 21:21

Stormer, hei

Glad to see your enthusiasm. But we just have this little business of unfinished units (like a paltry 30 more units), the means to make the infantry form square etc etc.

Once we are done with the units and their behaviour, we have to do some battle maps , leader portraits and battle sounds and commands.

Then we have to start on the campaign maps with different graphics for the buildings of the period.

We are at the units making phase right now. So you see, we have a wee bit more to do before the mod is out.

So keep checking.

LK, your idea of scaling down the sprites to 60% of the current size would be worth a try I think.

Cuirassier

Stormer

04-03-2003, 22:01

ok keep it up sounds good

Axelthorpe

04-03-2003, 22:38

Yeah, the new cavalry units, rocks
Just seeing the French Cuirassiers charging knee-to-knee right into that thin red line is amazing.

THANK YOU

Lord Krazy

04-04-2003, 00:24

Quote[/b] (Stormer @ April 03 2003,15:01)]ok keep it up sounds good
Be thankful Lord 66 answered the question
before I did. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Cuirassier66

04-04-2003, 04:17

I have compiled a list of the units that need to be made. I am thinking of the 1815 Waterloo campaign to begin with. So this would give us three factions : French, Anglo-Dutch-German and Prussian.

Here it goes :

French Units:
*************

Infantry
*******

1* Old Guard Grenadiers
2* Old Guard Chasseurs
3* Middle Guard Infantry
4* Young Guard Infantry
5* Line Infantry – Elite. A good example would be the 57th of the Line, "The Terrible 57th"
6* Line Infantry – Veteran. Almost all of the French line infantry could be classified as veteran.
7* Light Infantry – Elite. A good example would be the 13th Light.
8* Light Infantry – Veteran. Almost all of the French light infantry could be classified as veteran.

Cavalry
******
9* Grenadiers a Cheval de la Garde
10* Empress’ Own Dragoons
11* Chasseurs a Cheval de la Garde
12* Lanciers de la Garde
13* Carabiniers a Cheval
14* Cuirassiers
15* Line Dragoons
16* Hussars
17* Chasseurs a Cheval
18* Line Lancers

Artillery
******
19* Guard 12 pounder heavy foot battery. Guard artillery batteries should have higher mobility than line guns due to the fact that the guard guns had more horses per team and were better trained.
20* Guard 6 pounder horse battery (Volante). Guard artillery batteries should have higher mobility than line guns due to the fact that the guard guns had more horses per team and were better trained.
21* Line 12 pounder heavy foot battery.
22* Line 6 pounder foot battery.
23* Line 6 pounder horse artillery battery. One way to distinguish foot and horse batteries could be to let the figures accompanying horse guns be mounted.

So all in all 23 units to do and animate for the French. LK has already done 6,8,9,11,13,14 and 17.

-Cuirassier

hal269091

04-05-2003, 17:00

Here are some of the new portraits.
First British:
Collingwood
http://www.finupdivers.com/mtw/british/admiral04.jpg
Nelson
http://www.finupdivers.com/mtw/british/admiral05.jpg
Wellington - now we finally know, what Welly looks like http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif (Must be a picture showing him in his younger days http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )
http://www.finupdivers.com/mtw/british/general04.jpg
Russian:
Kutusov
http://www.finupdivers.com/mtw/russian/general07.jpg
Barclay de Tolly
http://www.finupdivers.com/mtw/russian/general09.jpg
Bagration
http://www.finupdivers.com/mtw/russian/general25.jpg

I now have finished 26 russian and 11 british portraits.

If anyone who reads this would have pictures of colored portraits of any kind of Officers from the Napoleonic period (1790-1820) please send them to me. Size and quality don't matter because I can do a lot in Photoshop.

All the ones I have I'm sure will be built in some future download Lord Krazy is working on.

Best wishes
Hal

PS: Quality is poor because I had them converted to .jpg's a bit hasty - Original .tga's a far better.

Lord Of Storms

04-05-2003, 17:38

Hal, I found this site, http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/riley/787/Napoleon/ and it has alot of Portaits that you might be able to use. Check it out. LOS http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/riley/787/Napoleon/index.jpg

hal269091

04-05-2003, 17:56

@Lord of Storms

Thanks for your help - I have this one already - loaded it down for offline use.

Actually some of my austrian portraits are from this site. But unfortunately very few are colored - it would be a big pain to color them by myself so before I start with this I want to be sure that there a no colored ones available.

I'm as well looking for the not so famous leaders - its easy to find portraits of the few famous ones. But I found it quite hard to research regimental commanders and "2nd rank" leaders.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Best wishes
Hal

Brother Derfel

04-05-2003, 19:19

Those are fantastic portraits hal

I have a book with quite a few French and Russian portraits in it (its for the battle of Borodino) most of the commanders from the battle. I will see if I can scan them for you. Unfortunatly most are Black and white but a few are colour.

hal269091

04-05-2003, 19:53

Quote[/b] (Brother Derfel @ April 05 2003,12:19)]Those are fantastic portraits hal

Nice to hear you like them.

As for the portraits in your book - try to just get me the colored ones - I already have loads of black and white ones.

Best wishes
Hal

PS: I'm also interested in womens and members of clerus's portraits from the Nap period.

Brother Derfel

04-05-2003, 19:59

Doh My scanner is not working

Anyway i have had a bit of a search on the net (trying to make up for a broken scanner) and have found 1 or 2 sites that may be helpful/

http://www.napoleonguide.com/napgal_index.htm -Has pics of Napoleon from the begining to the end of the wars.

http://www.lombardmaps.com/napoleon.htm -Has a few pics of Napoleons Generals

http://www.napoleonguide.com/asitemap.htm - Each biography of Napoleons Enemy's and Marshalls has a portrait with it.

Sorry again that I can;t scan in the portraits I have at home. Hope that those sites help.

I realy wish i could do more for this Mod, but I have no modding skill.

Lord Of Storms

04-05-2003, 20:16

found this also on Nap. period flags, has a large selection of all the colors used in the Nap.period by various countries and units, thought someone might find it useful www.warflags.com

hal269091

04-05-2003, 21:04

Quote[/b] (Brother Derfel @ April 05 2003,12:59)]Doh My scanner is not working

What a pity

Quote[/b] (Brother Derfel @ April 05 2003,12:59)]Anyway i have had a bit of a search on the net (trying to make up for a broken scanner) and have found 1 or 2 sites that may be helpful/

http://www.napoleonguide.com/napgal_index.htm -Has pics of Napoleon from the begining to the end of the wars.

http://www.lombardmaps.com/napoleon.htm -Has a few pics of Napoleons Generals

http://www.napoleonguide.com/asitemap.htm - Each biography of Napoleons Enemy's and Marshalls has a portrait with it.

Sorry again that I can;t scan in the portraits I have at home. Hope that those sites help.

I realy wish i could do more for this Mod, but I have no modding skill.

YOU CAN

Just keep on researching. Try to use creative search terms. If you know the names of a certain person (ie Mack, Wurmser, Bellegarde, etc. - you can take them from Orders of Battles, which can be found easily via google or here: http://www.histofig.com/ - do not go for the well known like the french marshals - I already have all of them) search for the person.

You could also search for pages about the history and military history of involved nations and countries or for military regiments veterans associations - they sometimes have portraits of regimental commanders.

You could as well try to research painters active in the Napoleonic period and then search for their paintings.

I.e. I was looking for "Goya" and on the 8th Google results page I found the name of a General portrayed by Goya. But the link was dead. So I started a search with the generals name and "Goya" and found this AMAZING site: http://www.artehistoria.com/frames.....tm?http (http://www.artehistoria.com/frames.htm?http://www.artehistoria.com/genios/pintores/a2085.htm.)

The have ALL the paintings by Goya which means loads of portraits to use for Generals, Emissaries, Princesses and Bishops.

Everything you find you can send to: webmaster@finupdivers.com

The sites I already have:
www.napoleonseries.org
www.1789-1815.com
www.ehmke-art.de/de/main.html
www.histunif.com
members.xoom.virgilio.it/murat/
www.grosser-generalstab.de

hal269091

04-05-2003, 21:13

Quote[/b] (Lord Of Storms @ April 05 2003,13:16)]found this also on Nap. period flags, has a large selection of all the colors used in the Nap.period by various countries and units, thought someone might find it useful www.warflags.com

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

"Ich weiss nicht was soll es bedeuten...." http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Best wishes
Hal

Lord Of Storms

04-05-2003, 22:36

here is the exact url http://www.warflag.com/napflags/html/flags.htm and I was just at the site it has all the colors (Flags) used by the countries and units of the Napoleonic wars...

Lord Of Storms

04-05-2003, 23:14

Prussian Line infantry colors circa 1806 http://www.warflag.com/napflags/flags/pr1806_1.gif

Lord Of Storms

04-05-2003, 23:17

http://www.warflag.com/napflags/flags/pr1808_gn.gif 1st East Prussian Grenadier Battalion
Staff colour: White
2nd East Prussian Grenadier battalion
Staff colour: Black
West Prussian Grenadier Battalion
Staff colour: White
Silesian Grenadier Battalion
Staff colour: White
Pommeranian Grenadier Battalion
Staff colour: White
Lieb Grenadier Battalion
Staff colour: Black

hal269091

04-05-2003, 23:29

Just a small "s" - and what a difference http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

We will probably make good use of them

Today was a very successful day: I made good business in my shop and found loads of spanish and british portraits - and you found the flags. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Did you have a look at LK's art test? I liked it

LeBob

04-07-2003, 16:33

Hi to all,

I have been working on creating historical battles for the Napoleonic mod that the lords, Wellington and other are making.
The main problem I am facing is the scale. The map that is used in in MTW is a little small to account for the battles (Marengo for example). Does anyone know if it is possible to increase the size of the battles map (beside choosing it in the map editor) ?
Also the napoleon campaigns are constituted of many battles and some help is needed…Anyone interested in making maps?
If so, post a reply

Thanks

Lord Le Bob

hal269091

04-07-2003, 20:47

Welcome LeBob,

why not reduce scale. Due to the limitations of the MTW enginde we will not be able to place as many troops as took part in the real battles.

Also when mapmaking we will not be allowed to place to many buildings.

So may be a reduction of scale of the landscape will create something like an original relation unit sizes/ landscape dimensions?

best wishes
Hal

Cuirassier66

04-08-2003, 01:06

LeBob,welcome

Please see my earlier posts on the Nap Mod Thread.

I have suggested that we keep the current map scale but use some abstractions for the troop numbers.

In a nutshell: a 60 man musketeer unit represents a battalion of 600 infantry soldiers. A unit of 40 horsemen represents a cavalry regiment of 400 soldiers. In short a ratio of 10:1.

I have several maps of Nap battles. Especially of the Waterloo campaign. Ask away if you need me to scan anything.

-Cuirassier.
(You may want to post this in the Nap Mod Thread&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Efrem Da King

04-08-2003, 07:33

I'd just like to say thanks for a great mod.

Brother Derfel

04-09-2003, 21:02

hi,

I have decided how i can help this mod (if you will let me)

I can make battle maps for you of many of the major battles. I have numerous books on the battles of the Napoleonic wars to use as reference.
I can;t promise the Maps will be brilliant, and i will scale them down to roughly 10:1 as Curassier sugested.

Are there any battle in particular you would like me to do?
I have plenty of good references for the early battle agains Austria (Marengo, Aspern-Essling) and against russia (Borodino).

Lord Krazy

04-09-2003, 21:38

Quote[/b] (Brother Derfel @ April 09 2003,15:02)]hi,

I have decided how i can help this mod (if you will let me)
Well we can hardly stop you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

All help is welcome.

Thanks.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

LeBob

04-10-2003, 13:59

Brother B.

I am almost done with the battle of Marengo. Please contact me by email so we can work together at the battles. I am also working on a website to post all the historical battles done for this mod.
it will be bad that several people make the same battles. For all the other people who read this and are interested to make hisotrical battles please contact me

Lord Le Bob at cte_fan@yahoo.com
Thanks

kyodai-britishbeef

04-10-2003, 22:37

ah , looks like you have stolen my job http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif lebob , i was waiting till the mod was completely finished so that i could get the historical accuracy correct for the historical battles , but as u have started already i will leave it up to you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif and get my notes and maps ready for historical battles from the v.I era http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

shand994

04-11-2003, 00:32

If anyone is interested, and if you're still doing units for this mod, I found a whole shitload of jpg's that would be great for uniticons. if anyone is interested in using them for this mod let me know and i will email them to you. Or if you're in need of someone to do some uniticons for this mod, as my mod has hit a pot hole and been put on hold for a bit i have spare time and can do some uniticons if you like. anyways just let me know if anyone is interested

Lord Krazy

04-11-2003, 01:28

Quote[/b] (kyodai-britishbeef @ April 10 2003,16:37)]ah , looks like you have stolen my job http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif lebob ,
No you just got a partner or two.
Your job is very secure.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Krazy

04-11-2003, 01:45

NapUnitsBeta v1.6 (http://thelordz.co.uk/zips/Napoleonic_Units_v1.6.zip)

This has

A cannon unit that moves
(horse artillery idea)

HighlandInfantry

FrenchGuardGrenadier (pied)

3 Russian Hussars

1 Austrian Hussar

Plus the all the units from the last version.

Pleanty more to come still
plus all the rest. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

shand994

04-11-2003, 07:48

Ok i put together a list of pics i have that i can do icons for, if anyone wants them let me know which ones.

Sapper, Infantry of the Line
Drum-Major, 4th Regiment, Infantry of the Line
Drum-Major, 67th Regiment,Infantry of the Line
Grenadier, Infantry of the Line, Prussian Campaign, 1806
Officer, Infantry of the Line, Prussian Campaign
Voltigeur, Infantry of the Line, Prussian Campaign, 1806
Voltigeur, Infantry of the Line, 1806 (Shako)
Corporal Drummer (with mace),18th Regiment, 1805
Fusilier, Infantry of the Line, 1804-7
Line Infantry, Grenadier in campaign dress, 1806
Voltigeur, Officer in surtout, 1806
Standard Bearer, 1807
Fifer of the 3rd Regiment,1809
Drummer of the 42nd Regiment,1807
Sergeant of Fusiliers, 1807
Brigadier 12th Regiment of Dragoons 1808, undress
Dragoon 19th Regiment of Dragoons, 1805
Sapper 30th Regiment of Dragoons, 1809
Grenadier Drummer, 18th Regiment, 1809
Sapper of Engineers, 1807
Fusilier in white uniform,1807
Officer of Dragoons 1807
Officer of Grenadiers 1806
Cornet of Voligeurs 1809
Officer Artillery 1809
Corporal of Artillery 1807
Drummer of Artillery 1809
Carabinier 2nd Regt Isemboug 1806
Officer Batallion Neuchatel 1808
Voltigeur 8th line Regt 1813
Officer foot Grenadiers of the Guard 1809
Grenadier of the Guard 1809
Trumpeter 1st regt Hussars Elite 1806
Hussar 4th Regt 1807
Hussar 10th Regt 1808
Light Infantry Carabinier 1809
Light Infantry Corporal of Chassuers
Light Infantry Officer of Voltiguers 1809
Officer of Cuirassiers 10th Regt 1809
Officer Polish Guard Lancers 1810
Trumpeter Polish Guard Lancers 1810
Voligeur of the Guard 1810
Sergent of Fusiler-Grenadiers Guard 1812
Drummer Dutch Guard Grenadiers 1812
Officer of the Young Guard 1809
Flanquer Grenadier of the Guard 1813
Corporal of Voltiguers Line Inf Italy 1859
Carabinier Bataillon Irlandais. 1807
Gendarme de Elite a pied de la Garde 1806
Capitaine de Chasseurs du 1.Rgt. Inf. Legere Royaume d'Italie 1807
Sergent de Chasseurs a Pied de la Garde Imperiale 1806

Napoleon franchissant les Alpes le 20 May 1800 ( VIGNETTE)

Mounted Trumpeter, 19th Regiment of Dragoons, 1807
Mounted Cuirassier of 7th Regt 1805
Mounted Trumpeter 1st Regt Cuirassiers
Mounted Hussar 7th Regt 1808
Mounted Dragoon 25 Regiment 1809
Napoleon Mounted
Mounted Superior Officer Polish Guard Lancers 1810
Colonel du 6eme Regiment. Hussards 1809
Chevau-léger Lancier de la Ligne Cie d'elite / 6º. Regt.1811

Zouave. Crimée 1854-1856
Caporal de Voltigeurs d'Infanterie de Ligne - Italie 1859
Brigadier de Chasseurs d'Afrique (4ème Rgt) - Crimée 1854
French Dragoons Officer .1870

LeBob

04-11-2003, 13:57

Kyodai,

LK is right http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif we work all together, I will be more than happy (maybe I will cry a little of joy) to work with anybody on the historical battles....the more we are the better the work (and the faster&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

A plus

kyodai-britishbeef

04-11-2003, 14:39

carry on with your battles lebob, i look forward to playing them, i will wait until the mod is nearly complete before i try to do my own. I am looking at making a series of skimishes relating to a large battle I.E waterloo, i would make 5,6, 7 or 8 "battles" , each one an area of the battle, i.e the centre , can the english hold the french (Neys ? ) cavalry charge etc , i think these will play well considering the massive scale of the major battles. I am going to start on the maps this weekend and then beta test the "battles" next week but keep them as beta until the mod is finished incase of any future changes to units etc http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Also i have changed the battle music to authentic pipes and drums , which adds a good feel to the game now. I found that i had to put music in which was of 1411 quality otherwise it wouldnt play or was very quite in the battle.I dont think the size of the music files being replaced have to match to the new ones , i think its just the bit rate which has to be correct.

but as the bit rate is so high the sound file is about 60 meg so might not appeal to all, i will try and upload it to my server so it can be tested out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Lord Krazy

04-11-2003, 22:56

shand994

Thanks that won't go a miss. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Might even get you to do some of them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Krazy

04-11-2003, 23:19

KB,
60megs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Get real http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

I think we can do something about that.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Brother Derfel

04-12-2003, 00:30

Lk, V1.6, what can i say? FANTASTIC

Those cannon are just perfect, they completely alter the way the game flows. I love the way they limber up to move and stop to fire. Perfect.

Well Done

Emp. Conralius

04-12-2003, 01:46

Once again LK, great job Those new French Grenadiers (infantry) are devastating.

The other day, I saw a great movie called "Napolean" on A&E, it was great They actually had an actor who looked like and was as short as Bonaparte (was played by Christian Clavier). Unfortunately, the Russian Czar in the film had a English accent http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Those grenadiers and Highland Infanry are mynew fav units

Efrem Da King

04-12-2003, 05:05

Just like to announce that the mods first fan site is up

Run of course by me.http://www.napoleonic-mod.tk

Lord Krazy

04-12-2003, 05:27

Efrem Da King,
I noticed you liked it.
Now I guess you really like it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Thank you we are honoured and humbled. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

Contact me at Lords@thelordz.co.uk

I'll be to happy send some stuff your way
and help you help us. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Where will it all end? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

That was a retorical question ok.

It will all end with a Napoleonic style Mod. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Then we'll make another one. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Krazy

04-12-2003, 07:49

Some of the new units

http://mysite.freeserve.com/lordkrazy/images/6-picture3.gif

http://mysite.freeserve.com/lordkrazy/images/6-picture1.gif

Efrem Da King

04-12-2003, 08:56

My website was down for a little while http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif cause I did something stupid. Bu I got it back up now.

spmetla

04-12-2003, 21:18

Yes I'll finally be able to play the Austrians. I'll show those nasty bavarians what they get for annexing Tyrol

Lord Of Storms

04-12-2003, 21:36

Quote[/b] (Brother Derfel @ April 11 2003,18:30)]Lk, V1.6, what can i say? FANTASTIC

Those cannon are just perfect, they completely alter the way the game flows. I love the way they limber up to move and stop to fire. Perfect.

Well Done
I read on another thread it was not possible to make cannons move? Leave it to LK to do the impossible http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Efrem Da King

04-13-2003, 05:19

Its impossible to make artillery moveable so lord krazy made the cannon a regular unit. Ingenious really.

Efrem Da King

04-13-2003, 11:23

Okay, I've put a "features" section up on my site and I would now like to make a credits. Could someone help me with a list of names.

Oh and PaulthaPict has volentired to help. He will be saiding his information to me soon.

shand994

04-14-2003, 02:46

Over the weekend i was bored and put these files together for use in
the Nap Mod, not sure if anyone has done them for the mod yet, but thought
id pass them on, theyre only rough at the moment, let me know if you think
theyll be usefull and ill tidy them up some . Thyre new napoeonic type pieces for the campmap, now they look more like the time period than the medievil type ones.

Actually i cant upload them at the moment so if anyone wants them say so and ill email them.

Efrem Da King

04-14-2003, 03:32

If you email them to me I'll upload them. I'm sure they'll help.

shand994

04-14-2003, 04:30

Whats your email??

Lord Krazy

04-14-2003, 08:11

Quote[/b] (shand994 @ April 13 2003,20:46)]Over the weekend i was bored and put these files together for use in
the Nap Mod, not sure if anyone has done them for the mod yet, but thought
id pass them on, theyre only rough at the moment, let me know if you think
theyll be usefull and ill tidy them up some . Thyre new napoeonic type pieces for the campmap, now they look more like the time period than the medievil type ones.

Actually i cant upload them at the moment so if anyone wants them say so and ill email them.
Some have been done however they are rough too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Send them to me by all means.
I'll take anything from anyone for free http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Thank's Shand it all helps.

BTW you can email Efrem either by
clicking on the the email icon
under his post ( the blue envelope)
or in his profile.

Thank's

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

shand994

04-14-2003, 08:20

I emailed them to your email LK.

Yeh i know i can email him through those places, but i dont think i can attach files that way. can i??

anyways if you check your mail LK you should have them.

Lord Krazy

04-14-2003, 08:44

Quote[/b] (Efrem Da King @ April 13 2003,05:23)]Okay, I've put a "features" section up on my site and I would now like to make a credits. Could someone help me with a list of names.

Oh and PaulthaPict has volentired to help. He will be saiding his information to me soon.
I'll be in touch regarding this.

Also speaking of credits, I'v been meaning to
to mention http://www.warflag.com/napflags/index.htm

This is where most of the flags in the Nap mod come from.
With the kind permission of the owner,
Alan Pendlebury.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Efrem Da King

04-14-2003, 09:07

Thanks I'll put a special thanks with a link to his site.

Lord Krazy

04-15-2003, 21:57

Quote[/b] (shand994 @ April 14 2003,02:20)]I emailed them to your email LK.

Yeh i know i can email him through those places, but i dont think i can attach files that way. can i??

anyways if you check your mail LK you should have them.
We got them thanks.

Let's say they are no worse than ours http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

It's the sort of thing we are looking for yes.
We'll be a little while longer before we have a campaign.
so you will have pleanty of time to touch them up,
and make more. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Thanks

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

kaaskop

04-15-2003, 23:41

*sigh* thus far i have resisted as best as i
could but i'm just too weak http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Third MTW intstall coming up http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

Lord Krazy

04-16-2003, 10:46

This is a list of the units that have been uploaded
plus the units that will be in the next upload.

AUSTRO-HUNGARIAN INFANTRY
"AustrianLineInfantry"
"AustrianLightInfantry"

AUSTRO-HUNGARIAN CAVALRY
"AustrianHessenHomburgHussars"
"AustrianHussars"
"AustrianDragoons"(next update)

RUSSIAN INFANTRY
"RussianLightInfantry"
"RussianLineInfantry"

RUSSIAN CAVALRY
"RussianDragoons"
"CossackLancers"
"RussianPavlogradHussars"
"RussianMariupolHussars"
"RussianElisabetgradHussars"
"RussianDragoonGuard"(next update)

ENGLISH CAVALRY
"LifeGuards"
"RoyalDragoons"
"RoyalHorseGuards"
"ScotsGreys"
"LightDragoons"(next update)
"EnglishHussars"(next update)

ENGLISH INFANTRY
"ScotsLineInfantry"
"EnglishLightInfantry"
"EnglishLineInfantry"

PRUSSIAN CAVALRY
"PrussianLightDragoons"
"PrussianCuirassierGuard"(next update)
"PrussianHussars"(next update)

PRUSSIAN INFANTRY
"PrussianLineInfantry"
"PrussianJaegerInfantry"
"PrussianLandwehrInfantry"(next update)

FRENCH INFANTRY
"FrenchMiddleGuard"(next update)
"FrenchYoungGuard"(next update)
"FrenchGrenadiers"
"FrenchLineInfantry"
"FrenchLightInfantry"
"FrenchReserveLineInfantry"(next update)

FRENCH CAVALRY
"FrenchHussars"
"FrenchCuirassiers"
"FrenchCarabiniers"
"FrenchDragoons"
"FrenchGuardGrenadiers"
"FrenchChasseurs"
"FrenchGuardChasseurs"

"Cannon"

Flags and battle sounds are also available

A Historical map has been done by KBB
and LLB has one with a battle to
go with it.To be released soon.

Work on the campaign is progressing
LOS has done a lot of that.
Plus work on the capmap is well underway

C66 has been working on the stats
and historical reference

Tga's have been provided by Hal.

shand is workin on pieces for the campmap.

We have our first fan site
http://www.napoleonic-mod.tk/
thanks to efram for that

Our site
http://thelordz.co.uk
will be updated soon
and is kindly mirrored at
http://www.zen11872.zen.co.uk/

I most likely forgot something.

However you should have got an idea that
progress is being made.A long way to go yet
so hang in. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Efrem Da King

04-16-2003, 13:54

DISASTER

Angelfire have cancelled my website

I think using it as base for my .tk site was agianst its rules.

Lord Of Storms

04-16-2003, 13:57

Sorry to hear that EDK, I have a page with Geocities.com, and I hear good things about Fortunecity.com also maybe try one of those ,I hope you get it worked out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

kyodai-britishbeef

04-16-2003, 16:52

i have a page with geocities and one with bravepages , sometimes both are ad heavy but there free sites and work well with most applications . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Cuirassier66

04-16-2003, 20:41

As Lord Krazy has been churning out his excellent new units at warp speed, I am panting to keep with the units stats balancing. Here are a few points:

*I have given upon the square formation. In this ver we have to tweak the stats to get the infantry in deep ransk hold its ground against the all too powerful cavalry.

*Cavalry as it is now, is too powerful. One charge and the opposing battalion is gone.

I tried a few tweaks and ran some tests. In all the tests described below, the Scots Greys (British Elite Heavy Cav Regiment) are up against a battalion of French Guard Grenadiers. I played both ways : as the charging British and the defending French.

* I gave the infantry Grenadiers a depth of 8 rows to make the formation look like an attack column. This is just for cosmetic purposes.

*I changed the NUM_SUPPORTING_RANKS for the grenadiers to 4. This means the first 4 ranks could fight in a melee.

*I changed the CAVALRY_DEF_BONUS for the grenadiers to 8.

*I reduced the MAX_TURN_SPEED for the inf to half its original value. For the cav I left this parameter unchanged. This means the cavalry would be able to wheel twice as fast as the infantry. This makes sense as the pricipal advantage of the cavalry is its mobility. I shall reduce the MAX_TURN_SPEED for the heacy cavalry somewhat as they were definitely not as fast as the lights.

*With these changes the cavalry has a tough time beating infantry in a head-on charge. But if I wheel around and take the infantry in the flank or in the rear, victory is almost assured.

*One blasted probelm I have is my inability to make the AI keep the 8 deep formation when cavalry is around. The moment my horsemen are in range, the confounded AI puts the infantry into a two rank deep formation and blasts away.

*I tried to play around with the column # 52 and changed it to "Spear, Missile, Shocktroop, Cavalry". No change.

*I tried to play around with the column # 18 (Unit class labels)and changed it to "DEFENDER, SPEAR, STRONG,MISSILE". No change.

I am looking for ideas to compel the AI to keep the deep formation intact and not to deploy when cavalry is around.

How do the spear units in MTW

Lord Of Storms

04-16-2003, 21:22

LC, Just a thought did you try editing coulmns 57 and 58 if you set 57 to DISCIPLINED and 58 to PERFECTLY FORMED ,maybe they would hold their ranks while under attack by cav. Again this is just speculation as I have not tried it myself...

Cuirassier66

04-16-2003, 21:55

Good catch. I'll try this tonight.

-Cuirassier

Lord Krazy

04-17-2003, 01:17

LC,

All missile unit default to skirmish at the start of a battle.Select all the unit at the start of the battle
and press f to make them hold position.
Then they will stand and do pleanty of damage.
All I know is when I play real time and ask
a cavalry unit to charge a line of musket,
it normaly ends in disaster unless the musket unit
is engaged with another unit.The normal result
is a retreat before contact, due to the last volley
of fire on them.When they do make contact with a unit
armedwith a spear the only reason they survive at all
is becaus they all have armour, heavy or not.
This will be all changed in the next version.
If you make the spear armour piercing that would
cause them to do more damage.
Only the heavy cavalry will stay at or near present
strengths.

This cat will need to be skinned a few ways.
No matter what way we do it, it's going to
scream. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Krazy

04-17-2003, 01:22

EDK,
Minor setback I'm sure.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Efrem Da King

04-17-2003, 07:40

Quote[/b] (Lord Krazy @ April 16 2003,19:22)]EDK,
Minor setback I'm sure.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Yes I'm building a bigger and better geocities site. A friend of mine uses it as a base for .tk and has no troubles.

Efrem Da King

04-17-2003, 12:26

Okay a little temporary site is set up with bouncing rhinos for all to enjoy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

Lord Of Storms

04-19-2003, 19:51

I found these and wondered of they can be of any use? http://www.matrixgames.com/Games/NapoleonicWars/images/nw2.jpg

Lord Krazy

04-19-2003, 20:40

Ye they look nice LOS.

LK

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Brother Derfel

04-19-2003, 21:24

They look cool LOS but the soldiers for the Prussians and Austrians look the worng way round. That looks like an hungarian grenadier on the prussian one and the soldier in the sustrian column looks like no austrian troop i have ever seen.

Lord Krazy

04-20-2003, 06:36

Quote[/b] (Brother Derfel @ April 19 2003,15:24)]They look cool LOS but the soldiers for the Prussians and Austrians look the worng way round. That looks like an hungarian grenadier on the prussian one and the soldier in the austrian column looks like no austrian troop i have ever seen.
I think they are the wrong way round too.
Seen as I do this sort of thing in an inferior
kinda way. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I can understand how that could happen.
They all look the same after a while. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

btw the one in the austrian column does not
look familiar to me at all.
It's different to rest at least http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

dclare4

04-20-2003, 18:58

Will this only run with the patched version? Which Beta is the most complete or do I have to get them all?

Thanks,
Mountbatten

Lord Of Storms

04-20-2003, 23:13

Quote[/b] (dclare4 @ April 20 2003,12:58)]Will this only run with the patched version? Which Beta is the most complete or do I have to get them all?

Thanks,
Mountbatten
Mountbatten, Look to pg.7 of this thread for V1.6 this is the latest and only version you need to download for play ,It also has a self install / uninstall feature that simplifies that process, as to if it runs only on the patched version, I think the answer would be no, you should be able to play it unpatched if that is what you plan, I am sure Lord Krazy will correct me if the last statement is incorrect. Enjoy and if you are playing unpatched and have a problem e-mail or post back here and we will help you out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Lord Krazy

04-21-2003, 04:44

Dclare4,
The mod was made with MTW v1.1.
It's best you use MTW v1.1 to play it.
ProjectileStats.txt comes with MTW v1.1 for example.
It will work (well it should)with MTW v1.0
however MTW v1.1 is the intended platform.

Apart from that MTW v1.1 is better than MTW v1.0
anyway.It's small easy to install
and gives you more options.
I'm assuming you asked becaues you
don't use it.Hence the sales pitch.

The sounds are the only files that are not included
in v1.6 of the mod.

The download site has used it's bandwidth
for the month so use this mirror please.

http://www.zen11872.zen.co.uk/

Thanks

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

MR EGG

04-21-2003, 21:11

Hello Lk got a couple of units for ECW ready well as near as I'm going to get so can I send them to you so you can take a look.royalist musketeers/Scottish musketeers and a standard bearer.more to come. cheers ME http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Lord Krazy

04-22-2003, 16:59

Quote[/b] (MR EGG @ April 21 2003,15:11)]Hello Lk got a couple of units for ECW ready well as near as I'm going to get so can I send them to you so you can take a look.royalist musketeers/Scottish musketeers and a standard bearer.more to come. cheers ME http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Cool http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I'm loking forward to them

Send them as soon as you can.

Thanks,

Regards

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

eXistenZi

04-24-2003, 16:28

If I install this mod, can I still continue my campaign? (Will I be able to switch the mod on and off?)

Lord Krazy

04-24-2003, 19:44

Quote[/b] (eXistenZi @ April 24 2003,10:28)]If I install this mod, can I still continue my campaign? (Will I be able to switch the mod on and off?)
NO

You can back up your files yourself
and reinstall them after removing
the mod and putting back the original
unit bifs from the textures folder
and reinstalling the mtw v1.1 patch.

Or make a second install of mtw
put the mod there and you won't
have to worry about that.

If you like napoleonic type things
you may not wish to play your old
campaigns after anyway.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Soapyfrog

04-26-2003, 08:57

This is amazing. Simply amazing.

I am agog.

Gonna give it a try and give feedback such as I can.

BTW, the download should be better advertised... perhaps the first post in this thread could be used as a banner to advertise where to download the latest file and what the status of the project is?

Only link I got that works: http://www.zen11872.zen.co.uk/

Soapyfrog

04-26-2003, 09:30

Wow. I have done a quick test and all I can say is wow.

No doubt there is much work to be done but this is such a fantastic start.

The musket fire is a little TOO effective though... and too quick to reload to boot. Certainly a single trained man aiming his musket carefully could make his shots tell over considerable range, but massed musket fire was really quite terrible in accuracy... usually only the first volley was reliable becuase of the smoke produced.

I ahve some interesting statistics on the subject from the battlefields of the time period.

Lord Of Storms

04-26-2003, 13:07

Soapyfrog thanks for the feedback, yes this is still a work in progress, we as the Lords still have things to do before the final release the beta unit releases are for testing and to keep the interest, so all feedback is welcome. We are currently awaiting the release of the viking expansion pack which will open up even more modding possibilities. So more interesting stuff to come . The Lords modding collective hopes to break new ground with what can be changed inside MTW, the Nap. Mod is just the beginning. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Soapyfrog

04-26-2003, 22:42

I reduced the accuracy of muskets to 0.2, increased the reload to 40, reduced the lethality to 2, and set the range as 5000.

I reduced the accuracy of rifles to 0.4, increased the reload to 60, reduced the lethality to 3, and set the range to 7000.

This seems to produce more pleasing results by way of a simulation of Napoleonic firefights. You have to get nice and close to produce really effective volleys. Really the relationship between range and lethality of musket volleys should have a much steeper curve, but this works pretty well.

The AI obviously does not know hoe to use the new troop types properly (it mostly sets them to skirmish) so I can't test the effectiveness of bayonet charges very well. I'll probably get a chance to do some MP testing tomorrow.

Lord Krazy

04-27-2003, 04:23

Thanks for the feedback Soapy.

As LOS pointed out the stats are not suposed to be
a reflection of much in particular.
If we did all that then good people like yourself
would not be able to help us with such feedback http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

But seriously the main point of the units downlaods
at the moment is to let folks see what we are working
on and the flavour of what we wish to achieve.

If you like the sample unit mod then
I can say with confidence that you will
like the finished item alot more.

It won't be quick but it's growing and improving all the time.So hang in and keep the feedback comming.

Thanks
regards

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Soapyfrog

04-27-2003, 05:03

Well it's damn cool so far. I'm just gald someone is making this mod... it is just screaming to be done

Lord Krazy

04-27-2003, 08:35

Quote[/b] (Soapyfrog @ April 26 2003,23:03)]it is just screaming to be done
It will take some screaming to get it done too. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

dclare4

04-27-2003, 08:52

Wow Looks like the Napoleonic mod is REALLY taking off Guess there were a whole lot of Napoleonic nuts out there just waiting for this big chance Just off the cuff, what I can think of modifying the current game into is the Peninsular War in Spain. Most of the Spanish architecture is Southern Medieval anyway. The entire of Europe can be converted into major provinces/cities. For troop types some I can think of are:

Spanish Guards - generally showpiece troops but superb when called to real action
Spanish regulars - solid uninspired troops
Spanish guerrilleros - unformed snipers useful as 'battlefield ninjas'

Spanish unfortunately should be of generally poor quality but make up in numbers and enthusiasm what they lack in skill and discipline

French Militia - poorly disciplined but enthusiastic conscript quality
French Ligne - veteran line infantry. relatively expensive by quality but the Fr mainstay.
French Leger - fast, well trained light troops effective as skirmishers
French Dragoons - mounted infantry, utilitarian, poorly mounted but effective in a firefight
French Polish Lancers - elite light cavalry, deadly vs infantry
French Empress Dragoons - elite dragoons of the Imperial Guard
French Mameluks of the Guard - elite light cavalry, deadly vs skirmishers

French should have the best all around mix, from effective skirmishers with their Legere and superb line infantry to elite light cavalry (though this should be outclassed by the better mounted British light horse&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

British Rifles - elite light infantry, deadly at long range with their Baker rifles
British Highlanders - crack shock troops from Scotland.
British Connaught Rangers - crack Irish shock troops famous for fighting and looting.
British Light Infantry - elite light infantry armed with light muskets and equipment.

British troops should be of top quality generally but are expensive, particularly rifles and cavalry. They should be given a higher rate of fire due to their use of 2 deep line and platoon firing but generally, except for grenadiers or storming companies such as the Highlanders or Connaught Rangers should not be as good in a melee.

Portuguese Cazadores - elite light infantry, trained by Britain and equals of the redcoats.

Portuguese troops should be a step lower quality than British / KGL troops though they were poorly supplied by their government (should be taken into account too&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Just a thought,
Lord de Clare

Lord Krazy

04-27-2003, 09:25

D4,
I like the idea.You must have a lot up your
sleeve, if that came of the cuff http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Don't send that shirt to cleaners untill
you get it all on paper. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

thanks

regards

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

dclare4

04-28-2003, 15:09

No problem, actually from my experience with the
(unfortunately unfinished) War of the Roses mod (I
kinda gave up because I was working on it just when
patch 1.1 came along and I didn't really relish the
thought of redoing all that work by myself for the
patch, but its got a ton of stuff done, including
renamed provinces, new messages w/c are appropriate to
the period, renamed pieces - emissary becomes herald,
Christianity and Orthodoxy and Islam become Lancaster,
York and France, etc) it shouldn't be to difficult to
do, just a ton of work, that's all. I think that's my
gift, not really repainting BiFs (w/c I can't really
figure out and study with my job schedule) but I at
least know how to mod the information/message files,
the images, etc. I'm thinking of most of Europe as
various Spanish provinces with the factions being the
regional juntas, plus the Brits, Portuguese, French,
Italians (Caucausus will be Italy). Question though,
do the national colors (Italian - Green, Danish -
White) show through the uniforms or did you make them
into something like Facing colors (like British
infantry are always in red but if you are the Denmark
faction then they have white facings, like that)? I'd
like to, for the Historic Battles, make multiple
factions for lets say Britain and France to make more
troops available for combat.

Just a thought,
Lord de Clare

Soapyfrog

04-29-2003, 02:19

Why not leave the map as is and have the historical powers from 1792-1815?

Better than concentrating exclusively on the peninsular war, which is interesting if you are a Wellington and Sharpe's Rifles fanatic is not the most interesting theatre of conflict.

Additonally you would have the African countries and the declining Ottoman Turks whcih would present an interesting contrast in terms of military fighting style.

P.S. What does everyone use to edit crusaders_unit_prod11.txt? When I use Excel it corrupts the file (yes I save it as text) so I am forced to use text editors which make it awkward to say the least...

Krasturak

04-29-2003, 02:37

I wonder if this is any use to you?

http://www.callnetuk.com/home/alanpendlebury/html/flags.htm

Gah

... oh Krast sees some of you ofund that already duh.

Anyhow, are instructions posted somewhere for installing and removing your mod? Krast wants see.

Lord Krazy

04-29-2003, 04:12

Soapyfrog,
D4 and I were talking about
alternative aplications of what we are doing.
Not the outlay of what we are working on now.

We were thinking more 1700 to 18 something
with all the powers and the whole map.

Krasturak,
thanks anyway. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

The download has a readme, it more or less explains.
If you have any problems let me know.

regards,

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Soapyfrog

04-29-2003, 06:42

Cool.

Given the range of possible unit types this mod could accomodate, it could even run from Renaissance to Napoleonic...

i.e. you could start with 16th century "tercio" style armies, with flintlock musketmen, pikemen, and caracole cavalry and evolve from there. At least it would allow for more technological progression... from 1700-1815 the major technological innovation was the rifle and that came quite late and in small numbers only. Primary innovations of the time were doctrinaire in nature (think proper use of cavalry, impulse warfare, maneuver & formation etc.).

Well the possibilties are endless

Efrem Da King

04-29-2003, 09:59

I want that wars of the roses mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif . Or else.

Lord Of Storms

04-29-2003, 12:46

Quote[/b] (Soapyfrog @ April 28 2003,20:19)]P.S. What does everyone use to edit crusaders_unit_prod11.txt? When I use Excel it corrupts the file (yes I save it as text) so I am forced to use text editors which make it awkward to say the least...
Soapy, there is an excellent utility for editing the prod 11 and 13 and projectile stats files, it is called Gnome_Unitbuildproj_EditorV2.0 and it lays the file out in a very easy to edit format, you can get it from the Org download page. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Lord Krazy

04-29-2003, 19:54

Quote[/b] (Soapyfrog @ April 28 2003,20:19)](yes I save it as text)
It must be saved as
text tab deliminated.

When you choose text tad deliminated
save the file with a different name.
Don't save the changes to the excel doc
just say "no". http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Cuirassier66

04-29-2003, 21:01

About the new horses:

Lord Krazy

The new horse BIFs are absolutely fantastic I see three different colours: bay, black and white/grey.

Indeed all the light cavalry and the dragoons were mounted on bays. The Scots Greys rode exclusively on
greys. All of the Household regiments rode black brutes.

As for the French, the elite Horse Grenadiers were mounted exclusively on black chargers. Carabiniers a Cheval,
a very senior heavy cavalry regiment also rode exclusive black animals. The cuirassiers rode dark brown or at
times black chargers. The lights and the dragoons rode whatever they could find

I suggest that for our game, that all heavy cavalry (both Guard and line) be mounted on black chargers.
It would be a visual warning to the players that heavy horse is approaching. Not a smart idea to send in the
1st Pommeranian Landwehr regiment into the fray if the Carabiners a Cheval are trotting up, if you know what I mean

The lights and the dragoons could be mounted on brown chargers.

Only the Scots Greys would have the honour of being mounted on white chargers.

-Regards,
Cuirassier

Cuirassier66

04-29-2003, 21:26

Troop statistics tuning and the test results:
**********************************************

I have been fiddling around with the troop statistics for a while now. My general aim is to bring a game feel
that is more Napoleonic than Medieval.

I strongly feel that the range for the musket that is set to 120 meters now is far too long. Effective musket range
in the Napoleonic era was seldom greater than 100 meters. Indeed even this figure applied to the first volley where factors
like battle stress, smoke from previous volleys, fouled musket barrels etc did not count. As the battle raged on, all of the above
factors came into the play and severely reduced the range and more importantly, the EFFECTIVENESS of the musketry.

Especially against cavalry, it was a very brave (or a foolish) commander who ordered a volley at 100 meters. In order to break the
momentum of the cavalry charge it was essential to cause significant casualties with the first volley. This could only be done
if the volley was fired at a very close range, say 40 meters or even 30 meters. Even at seventy meters, the only one in 3 shots hit their
targets ever

With these factors in mind, I changed the musket range to 70 meters and the rifle range to 120 meters. I gave a hit probablity of
0.3 for the musket and 0.5 for the rifle.

I was also trying to get the following to work:

1* Find a way to get the square formation. If this is not possible, find a close second.

2* Find a way to make the AI adopt the square formation if being threatened by cavalry

I set the NUM_PREFERRED_ROWS to 8. This easily puts the battalions (60 man units) into a nice attack column formation.
When close to the enemy you could deploy the battalion into a three or two rank formation for efficient musketry duells.

I set the NUM_SUPPORTING_RANKS to 4 and the CAV_DEF_BONUS for the infantry to +1. With these changes, the combat feels more
Napoleonic. When being attacked by cavalry, my infantry is safe as long as they remain in close formation. Of course, you have
to issue the HOLD POSITION and HOLD FORMATION commands prior to a cavalry charge: otherwise they will run away.

If they meet the cavalry charge standing in line, they get slaughtered almost always. It is indeed morbidly fascinating to
watch the line bend under the charge and finally break into two or three sections as the cavalry charges home. Once this happens
the infantry is doomed.

But I have not had much success with the AI behaviour so far. No matter what parameters I tweak, the AI makes the
infantry receive the charge in line. I just have to find a flank and voila , there is blood everywhere The infantry has no chance

Any input on this would be welcome.

Regards,
Cuirassier