View Full Version : Shogun totalwar multiplayer plans revealed...!!
Swoosh So
12-02-2010, 19:35
http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/113/1137776p1.html
Will have a think about this then post my thoughts.
Read it as well, reading it again. Many thoughts rising. Can't tell if I have to prepare for the worst, or hope for the best. ;)
It kinda depends wether it is only one of the ways one can play online, or the only one (besides a true MPC obviously)
Swoosh So
12-03-2010, 00:28
If its the only one its game over :) and by only one i dont include mp campaign i mean only battle mode.
Well, not much you can do with a game, where anything is done already. You come up with this stuff, which actually has nothing to do with the online battle.
The idea with the general, might be a small "nice" addon, which hopefully wont have to much power, but the stuff with the units.... lol, units you can just field from time to time.
By reading this, i asked myself, if CA actually do understand the meaning of onlinegaming. If not, here it comes: Balance.
I dont see the many more MPlayer, they wont come. And if you come online and get your arse wooped, by full "upgraded" units/general, than you say good bye in most cases.
From all i expected, this is surely the last!
It wont improve the gameplay in any way, it might be nice for some gaming-magazins and reviews, but thats it.
We brought tons of ideas, nothing seems to found its way to CA.
Koc
Swoosh So
12-03-2010, 09:25
You know i think ur right to an extent mike, the community specifically asked for powerup buildings not to be included in the multiplayer battles, it amazes me that CA think that camping is a problem in totalwar infact ALL experienced players attack maps so the thinking was that the experienced players get a bonus that negates terrain on their way to destroying some static player? and knowing CA they will litter every map with this nonsence. The new match finding screen does look decent tho but if its doing so much auto matching its surely a statement from CA saying your not getting a chat foyer which EVERY SINGLE MP PEEP WANTS.
I think I am not the kind of MP player, TW is currently aiming for.
But, I really really really hope, that these things are simply options to be turned on and turned off at the hosting screen like time of day and the weather. Or that they are limited (or not used depending on your PoV) by use of different gaming modes. I do think these things can be nice, less so about these statboosting buildings, but if it is the only way to play... Hmmmm. I guess there are just too many clueless people that cannot deal with campers and whine about it on the .com site. ;)
Much like RTW had an arcade and a normal mode, maybe S2TW will have an old school and a lure the SP'r into MP mode.
Swoosh So
12-03-2010, 09:37
"I guess there are just too many clueless people that cannot deal with campers and whine about it on the .com site. ;) "
I have to be honest that was my initial thought too, ive never seen anyone in the community complain about camping not since people complained about redzone camping but thats a totally different issue that tbh i havent seen in years. The funny thing is that these buildings are going to assist the attacker and the attacker is 99% of the time the experienced player lol, what we will probably end up with is an experienced player in the better terrain also with the quad damage temple bonus hah!
I think we can safely assume now there will be no MP chat foyer like the community asked for, there definately will the the sonic the hedgehog powerup buildings that we asked not to be put in and that we can forget about a good selection of maps as they maps will be focussed around the quad damage temples.
Well yes. Other than that, the general skill tree, armour upgrades and veteran units isn't such a bad thing though, as long as they are balanced out by koku increase.
At least this will mean one thing: the networking code will likely get properly tested and debugged. And that's an encouraging thought.
Overall, I don't know, it's not how I would have done it. It all depend on the details. But if they do succeed with getting more people online, that's only positive. I only hope they understand the community aspects of MP, that many goes online primarily as a social activity, and not only to get XP and to advance down the tech tree.
No wonder they kept it under wraps so long lol, if its the only method of playing then they have destroyed the online community, some clarification from CA would be nice.
Like I said before they have never understood that people mainly play TW online for the battles and to pit them selves against a human oponent. To do this we basically all want to be on a balanced playing field, introducing Call Of Duty style upgrades giving the more prolific players bonus's isnt the way to do it imo.
Time will tell though.
:oops:
Nice how they have asked no one in the online community or done any beta testing with the community again. I'm also guessing no lobby/foyer.
Magyar Khan
12-03-2010, 13:18
I have to reread again and all i can hope is that u can turn it on and off.... and altho a nice twist perhaps overall ots just a goodie..... nothing we need for real to get mp on teh right track.... netcode, balancing, foyer, excellent gameplay and mp campaign are much more important....
Well sells-wise this plan sells good in magazins......
Yeah, time will tell. However, when approaching it from the other side, it slowly starts to seem to me that all these perks and such sound very much like making MP from a SP point of view. But it really depends on the details. Toggles to turn it on / off, a game mode besides random autogames&campaign, and how these perks are balanced, money wise.
Maybe they are aiming for the so called Massive Single-player Online genre.
Fraid you could be a right... and then a botched attempt at it too ;)
Now, an enjoyable Massive Multiplayer Online TW could be fun, if the details are right.
Gregoshi
12-03-2010, 16:25
What if the bird will not sing? Ieyasu says "Wait."
While I found the persistence features intriguing (and most of you apparently did not), there is a lot still unsaid about MP. You know these articles (and CA) focus on new stuff (New! New! New!) and I don't think things like discussing the return of a chat foyer are going get most of the newer, what's-a-chat-foyer TW players all rabid with excitement for TWS2 (to use the new title). No need to kill the bird yet.
Magyar Khan
12-03-2010, 16:26
at the current point CA is not skilled enuf to deliver that, just because they lack resources to make it balanced.......
still have to reread it but somehow it smells not as a step in teh right direction if the other points in our wishlist aint adressed.....
imagine.... we have still a few good maps and in some aspects silly gameplay.... why should we hoover around with our own general......
and its a nice touche to add virtues and such.... just make sure its just a touch and not an unbalanced monsterthing....
pevergreen
12-03-2010, 16:38
The critical thing is here that they can now hit two targets.
The casual player with persistance and unlocks, customisation etc, with a ladder/stat tracking system that is matched against others (to draw them into competitive) then a real ladder.
You look at an RTS. People play them competitively because they are balanced. I think it is beyond CA to balance a persistant system of traits.
I guess we will have to wait and see, but they need to bring back a ladder/rating system of some sort, to cater to the hardcore players.
Theres a much better report here on eurogamer, does state the old way of MP will also be present.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-12-03-total-war-shogun-2-hands-on
pevergreen
12-03-2010, 17:22
Theres a much better report here on eurogamer, does state the old way of MP will also be present.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-12-03-total-war-shogun-2-hands-on
Wow this one is a ton better.
Get your clans going, I may have to join one...or become a one man wrecking machine.
They do also mention at Eurogamer about the bonus building you can capture and also say its a risk and possible to
"Perhaps an option to turn bonus buildings off could be one way to safeguard against a purist backlash"
Anyway on the whole much more in dept. I'm feeling a little bit more optimistic now.
See... its about the details ;)
Good to know the old way is still present. Does that one exclude the building boosts?
Swoosh, back in RTW (not sure if I remembered it correctly), many maps could optionally be turned into maps in which cities were present. Wouldn't be too hard to list these buildings as a hosting toggle for some or most maps.
Gregoshi
12-03-2010, 18:09
The Eurogamer article was much more revealing, interesting and encouraging. It's good to see old school is an option. I hope the clan campaigns works out well as it sounds like it could add a new dynamic to the whole MP experience. How and when do you commit your veteran units, etc. I wonder if there is a mechanism for diplomacy? Good info finally getting revealed.
pevergreen
12-03-2010, 18:21
I'm hoping its a really simple system. You each start with even number of provinces, battle for others. Battle to defend. No peace. Sure you can 'agree' with other clans (via forums etc) to not attack, but really, if its a simple map system, theres no "oh no i dont have an army there to defend"
What I am interested, is how will it track clans.
Since you only get 1 account, how do you unify the members. How do you track them?
Swoosh So
12-03-2010, 19:25
Ah ffs check this quote
Also new to multiplayer are 'key buildings'. All the maps have one or two buildings that give a buff to your troops if you capture them. Note the word ALL epic fail!!!
AggonyKing
12-03-2010, 19:26
I found myself pressing this button (http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/) a few times while reading the Eurogamer article :no:
I have to say though all those (general, avatar, army upgrades, special houses, campaign map) sound like good ideas, I'm truly worried about the balance. I hope CA is thinking about tournaments and that the true old system will be available at any time, without any of these new things.
This scarred me:
"You now get to create and level-up a general unit who will stay with you for the duration of your multiplayer escapades and lead your troops into battle." Does that mean we can never get rid of that general? :inquisitive:
The special buildings, I truly hope that there are a ton of maps without it as well. Honestly, I don't think camping is a problem at all. Its easy (and very satisfying) to destroy a camper. Besides, with NTW's map, I don't think any hill is big enough for someone to camp. Perhaps on 1v1, but total war is about team games. You camp, you doom your teammates to certain death.
Regarding the turn based mp map, does this mean that CA only excepts 2310 players to play this? 77 regions in total with about 30 clans each. Unless you need about 10 people to make a clan, I would imagine those spots will fill up quick :? Maybe I read it wrong, or perhaps new regions get formed depending on demand.
I'm still disappointed though, no mentions of a lobby :no:
But you know, all is not lost. All of these features could actually work...as long as they are balanced :2thumbsup:
so I'm going to give a drop of confidence that CA knows what it is doing.
Swoosh So
12-03-2010, 20:09
Theres positives and negatives king i saw a preview that said these buildings will be in ALL maps thats just omg fail on levels never seen before, the clan ladders with promotion and relegation sound excellent tho. You just have to battle with your gen through the japan map to gain entry into the shogun leagues where u can win the title of shogun.
Magyar Khan
12-03-2010, 23:13
there are good points ofcourse but im afraid that balancing is a problem..... mass beta testing could help :)
AggonyKing
12-04-2010, 01:39
there are good points ofcourse but im afraid that balancing is a problem..... mass beta testing could help :)It does help, just CA needs to do it :laugh4: maybe as a Christmas present for all of us :santa3:
pevergreen
12-04-2010, 02:02
Regarding the turn based mp map, does this mean that CA only excepts 2310 players to play this? 77 regions in total with about 30 clans each. Unless you need about 10 people to make a clan, I would imagine those spots will fill up quick :? Maybe I read it wrong, or perhaps new regions get formed depending on demand.
"We have a dynamic system that creates new gaming worlds depending on how many clans are entering. About 30 clans will fight in any one gaming world. Each 'season' will last two weeks, after which the top clans will be promoted and the bottom ones relegated."
Regarding the buildings: I hope that stays out of the 'traditional' mode they have.
The generals: You'd think they would at least have the option of completely resetting your guy, if not just choosing to redo his 'stats'
Swoosh So
12-04-2010, 03:37
My minds boggled with this release theres so much to process im not even sure whats in it theres 1v1 2v2 3v3 4v4 leagues clan leagues a clan type mini campaing coop modes quad damage buildings sharing units in coop mode all this armour choosing banner choosing retainers in MP, hope tehy havent taken on too much. Everything sounds great tho except the quad damage buildings if they have an option to switch off fine.
Tomisama
12-04-2010, 03:57
While the tried and tested way of playing multiplayer from previous Total War titles will be retained in Shogun 2,A glimmer of hope?
this sequel aims to transform our battles against opponents in mysterious faraway lands like Scunthorpe or Stroud into more purposeful encounters.
Dashed.
Anyone who's spent their nights trying to outstare 5000 men on the opposite side of a level to see who'll blink first will understand the frustration that can accompany a Total War multiplayer game. You mean like real war?
Conversely, though, it's this endless cat-and-mouse-style psychological warfare which often contributes to making these skirmishes so memorable.Spoken like someone who understands, but who really doesn’t.
I will never give up hope, but that is because I have been hoping for so long, that it is has become all that I know.
AggonyReborn
12-04-2010, 04:41
yes Balance indeed needs to stay intact. Plus I hope a lobby will come around, but I have huge doubts of it implemented. If there is an off switch the main thing im worried about is in order to play the game with keeping the balance and no stat booster crap it will have to be a game between friends. Jumping into a game that you have no idea what that random host put settings at, can be a disaster and possibly kill the chances of filling games. Its hard enough at times filling a 3v3 or 4v4 :(
AggonyKing
12-04-2010, 05:25
yes Balance indeed needs to stay intact. Plus I hope a lobby will come around, but I have huge doubts of it implemented. If there is an off switch the main thing im worried about is in order to play the game with keeping the balance and no stat booster crap it will have to be a game between friends. Jumping into a game that you have no idea what that random host put settings at, can be a disaster and possibly kill the chances of filling games. Its hard enough at times filling a 3v3 or 4v4 :(hmm, perhaps they will have a way for you to make a game using the "old total war system" and make one using the "new" one. Like maybe when you host, you have the option to pick which version.
Phog_of_War
12-04-2010, 12:39
http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/12/03/hands-on-shogun-2%e2%80%99s-siege-battles-2/
Appologies if this has been posted. Some good nuggets of info in this write up.
Tomisama
12-04-2010, 15:59
Many thanks Phog :thumbsup:
I found the pictures, story, and the wonderful music, "totaly" inspiring.
A Shogun Multiplayers heart beats again :bow:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-04-2010, 16:18
I just what the game experience to be fun and enjoyable and memorable for myself and for all those people involved :yes:.
Has anyone seen any mention of Map Creators or regular Map Packs anywhere yet?
I'm hoping they can improve on NTWs terrible selection or at least give us the tools to make our own improvements.
There is mention on Videogamer of a beta period although what this means I'm unsure. :idea2:
http://www.videogamer.com/pc/shogun_2_total_war/preview-2817.html
Don't all get shocked at once.
AggonyKing
12-06-2010, 20:12
another hands-on article (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/shogun2totalwar/news.html?sid=6284864&mode=previews)
Clans will be easy-to-join groupings for multiplayer, based around Steam groups. Any Steam group can be a clan in-game and will be pitted in each two-week season against nine other clans in a mini-league. Each victory in multiplayer for a member of your clan will count towards your clan's control of the map region in which your battle was fought, with the clan that holds the most territory at the end of the season winning and moving up to a higher league. At the lower levels, most of this inter-clan competition will be through sheer force of numbers; you won't lose points if you lose battles, and there are no concrete plans for limiting the number of members. The idea, CA says, is to make getting into a clan as easy as possible so that anyone who wants to take part in this level of multiplayer can do so.
well, start claiming provinces :D
Gregoshi
12-07-2010, 07:20
Nice article links Sp00n and AK. I think some will be excited at the mention in the Gamespot article about there being 4v4s in MP. I also found it interesting reading the comments in the Gamespot article. Most of them were complaining about the lack of info on SP (the "heart" of TW) - they obviously haven't been reading all the preview articles prior to last week.
Besides these booster buildings, I am catiously optimistic. ;)
But one thing I know for sure, I'll be missing my broadside firing ships.
Gregoshi
12-07-2010, 15:45
A thought on these building that are generating so much discussion and concern: if they negate terrain advantages such as hills, then why have hills on the maps? K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple, Stupid. If hill camping is a concern for some players, then play only on flat maps like Totomi or Ironing Board from STW. A major part of any real battle is to utilize terrain to your advantage and this should be so in the game as well. While I like the idea and appreciate the purpose behind the buildings, I'd hope that advantages they confer to an army don't completely negate terrain effects. I can see the building giving a morale bonus but the army on the hill should should have greater range with its archers and fighting up hill should be more tiring, etc.
Exactly Gregoshi. That is my thought too. And not just with hills, but also woods, and other positional advantages such as better unit match up, flanking position, overloading etc etc.
A thought on these building that are generating so much discussion and concern: if they negate terrain advantages such as hills, then why have hills on the maps? K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple, Stupid. If hill camping is a concern for some players, then play only on flat maps like Totomi or Ironing Board from STW. A major part of any real battle is to utilize terrain to your advantage and this should be so in the game as well. While I like the idea and appreciate the purpose behind the buildings, I'd hope that advantages they confer to an army don't completely negate terrain effects. I can see the building giving a morale bonus but the army on the hill should should have greater range with its archers and fighting up hill should be more tiring, etc.
Exactly but mainly it shows they have very little understanding about the MP side of the game, we play MP to pit ourselves againt a human oponent normally in the most balance friendly situation possible. You just don't play hilly maps unless the teams are greatly miss balanced or you want a challenge or in Elmos case your drunk and want to drag 3 of your buddies on a suicidal march up some extreme mountain terrain.
We didnt need objective/unit bonus buildings, all it will do is move the camper off his/her hill to the building.
Expect a new type of camper in Shogun 2 the building hugger.
Expect a new type of camper in Shogun 2 the building hugger.
Yup, its like solving the issue by simply renaming it. Of course, there wasn't that much of an issue in the first place, besides perhaps some wasted time.
I mean there is a huge difference between camping and waiting for the right opportunity while pressuring your opponent to give away that opportunity.
AggonyKing
12-07-2010, 18:31
well it might not be all bad. perhaps we will be able to burn the building down with fire arrows :D
Gregoshi
12-07-2010, 18:45
King of the Building instead of King of the Hill. Now, if the building effect was a one-time effect (first one there) and was of limited time, that might encourage the kind of movement CA wants. You got the building advantage, but you have to use it or lose it. Also, if kicking the owner from the building would cancel the advantage, that would might also inspire some non-camping. Lots of testing would be needed to get the right effect from this feature.
...they have very little understanding about the MP side of the game, we play MP to pit ourselves againt a human oponent normally in the most balance friendly situation possible.
That may be true for the STW MP, but I think there is a whole new generation of TW gamers who might not agree with that - yet. A lot of today's gamers are always looking for those power-ups and such that give them a game advantage over the other players. A straight up skill challenge is a foreign thought. That, at least, is my experience in watching my son and his friends play online. I also think this kind of gamer out numbers us "old school" types. Hopefully, TWS2 will be an opportunity for the old school to show the others the honour/Bushido spirit that existed ten years ago.
Having said that, some of the new MP features do sound like they could be a lot of fun - different from STW MP - but fun too.
Magyar Khan
12-07-2010, 19:17
greg ur right, watching my own boys i noticed they enjoy more in being one single character with allsort of powers than commanding an army.... seems after so many generations Magyars i must accept that :o)
King of the Building instead of King of the Hill. Now, if the building effect was a one-time effect (first one there) and was of limited time, that might encourage the kind of movement CA wants. You got the building advantage, but you have to use it or lose it. Also, if kicking the owner from the building would cancel the advantage, that would might also inspire some non-camping. Lots of testing would be needed to get the right effect from this feature.
That may be true for the STW MP, but I think there is a whole new generation of TW gamers who might not agree with that - yet. A lot of today's gamers are always looking for those power-ups and such that give them a game advantage over the other players. A straight up skill challenge is a foreign thought. That, at least, is my experience in watching my son and his friends play online. I also think this kind of gamer out numbers us "old school" types. Hopefully, TWS2 will be an opportunity for the old school to show the others the honour/Bushido spirit that existed ten years ago.
Having said that, some of the new MP features do sound like they could be a lot of fun - different from STW MP - but fun too.
I really don't think thats the case tbh most games use flat maps in NTW, some clans attack the hillier maps but its more about the challenge as decent 3v3 oponents are hard to find outside of tournies, I wasnt really talking about the upgradable general. Most strategy games/rts still have mp on a level playing field. I'm still excited about the game and I'll buy it no matter what I just hope its balanced. Lets face it the buildings are terrible in NTW units struggle to march around them and always have in TW games, I hope they have at least fixed that or give us a map creator so we can exclude them.
Lets hope it works but I still see them creating more camping than fixing an issue that isnt really there as opposed to adding anything useful.
I also don't believe many of the new generation of FPS Call Of Duty players are likely to play TW games heavily online, thats obviously what they want though and I can see why.
Swoosh So
12-07-2010, 20:53
The buildings will be a disaster and we all know it, theres talk that they have toned down the building bonuses to just filling units ammo and recovering fatigue (theres spa's?) /care about the buildings tbh theres alot of great news lets just hope this sour grape doesent take up too much room in what otherwise sounds like an improvement in MP. What i fear is they throw these buildings down our throats and dont give us the option not to have them i know that will infuriate me as i expect the map selection to be quite limited as it is without a good map being ruined with some crap building on it.
This is exactly why they need solid MP players as beta testers to ensure everything works correctly and more so that the features do not have negative effects on balance or take away from the skill required (for instance not being able to turn veteran units/retainers etc off for competetive games).
Atleast they're making an effort for MP.
The escapist's take:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/reviews/previews/8409-Preview-Total-War-Shogun-2
Swoosh So
12-09-2010, 00:55
"when the battle began, we found ourselves facing off on two hills sloping down to a broad river. Down the river to my left was an archery building. When captured, it would give a bonus to my troops. This was on my side of the river, so I positioned half of my forces to take it right away. The other half, I positioned on the right side of the map, ready to take a farm on the other side of the river. If I could grab the farm, I could increase the stamina of my soldiers. The middle of the river contained a small island with a building that could increase the effectiveness of my infantry, but I considered that a secondary objective. The banks of the river on Rob's side were very steep and covered by trees, so I knew I'd want to move my attacks along the flanks. I had my forces ready and the battle began."
This sounds like hell :( If most games are like this id rather spew than play the game. Infact im off to spew just now even reading that was too much! Whats totalwar going to become with these crap buildings :(
Thanks drone for the link.
"when the battle began, we found ourselves facing off on two hills sloping down to a broad river. Down the river to my left was an archery building. When captured, it would give a bonus to my troops. This was on my side of the river, so I positioned half of my forces to take it right away. The other half, I positioned on the right side of the map, ready to take a farm on the other side of the river. If I could grab the farm, I could increase the stamina of my soldiers. The middle of the river contained a small island with a building that could increase the effectiveness of my infantry, but I considered that a secondary objective. The banks of the river on Rob's side were very steep and covered by trees, so I knew I'd want to move my attacks along the flanks. I had my forces ready and the battle began."
This sounds like hell :( If most games are like this id rather spew than play the game. Infact im off to spew just now even reading that was too much! Whats totalwar going to become with these crap buildings :(
Yep the buildings are going to suck in terms of balance, every games going to revolve around who gets to the buildings first.
What is it going to become? Many action RTS have bonus buildings in MP including Starcraft 2 that some numbty on TWcenter keeps quoting. Just pray you can turn them off.
:furious3:
I can see where this is going: Occupy four buildings and you get the opportunity to build a hotel and collect koku from enemies passing by.
I can see where this is going: Occupy four buildings and you get the opportunity to build a hotel and collect koku from enemies passing by.
I am laughing and sad at the same time.
AggonyDuck
12-09-2010, 15:08
Seems like they've gone the route of abandoning simple elegance for gimmicky RPG/RTS features. The sad part really is that it will appeal to a lot of people and I have no doubt the RPG features will be very addictive, but it is a shame to see that what should essentially be the perfection of Total War has instead been reduced to a bunch of gimmicks plastered over normal Total War battles.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-09-2010, 17:42
Amen to that Ducky. I myself just want to do regular MP games with the every once in a while MPC, not all this gimmich trash.
Magyar Khan
12-09-2010, 19:06
smells bad :o(
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-09-2010, 19:16
smells bad :o(
I think we got to team up and take out the trash then Magyar! I'll get my Hussars on it!
http://totalwar.honga.net/empire_units_image.php?f=hungary&u=euro_hungarian_hussars_info_cavs&t=info
While I'm not happy about the building gimmick, as long as the bonuses are small and the maps have them spread out so both sides can benefit, it might not be too bad. I wonder how many players will sacrifice army cohesion for these buildings, a good tactician could exploit this to his/her benefit if he/she can eliminate the opponent piecemeal due to an over emphasis on capturing map points.
Jochi Khan
12-09-2010, 21:19
The more I read the less inclined I feel about buying/playing TotalWar: Shogun 2 (what a title) :thumbsdown:
Common sense at least dictates more and custom maps. So, buildings can have all the power ups possible, but when a map doesn't have any building, all is ok for the players who don't like it.
One thing works for player A and B, something else for player C and D.
If it comes to playing a game like this, I seek the illusion of realism. While I enjoyed the games, especially the big team games, and am aware of some nifty manoeuvrings to obtain key positions and am aware of key positions already being important, something was missing a bit. Real battles could stretch out over many miles with both sides trying to capture/safeguard some important terrain/road/bridge. This could be one step into the direction to get battles like that. A game like that may also require much more than four players on a team and way bigger maps to run smoothly. I'm not a fan of WoW like games, but a TW version where I'm commanding a whole unit in a huge army is something else. To get that to work well is quite a challenge.
Swoosh So
12-09-2010, 23:34
Dont get too down guys there are alot of good changes in the game but we need to voice our opinions on this and not sit idly by while it ruins the game. the only problem i see is these buildings being on all maps with no other choice thats enough to ruin the entire release for 50% of the community. i encourage all players to post in http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=407933 which is where the most heated discussion about the buildings is taking place just read the thread and post your true feelings on whats being discussed id like to hear all sides but i just cannot see these buildings working. Even if the buildings are on 50% of the maps usually we get a crap selection of mp maps with each release and thats 50% of the maps already removed from the game that half the community wont want to touch at all its looking like a train wreck waiting to happen.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-09-2010, 23:36
I'm afraid that this game might be turn into some little kiddie PG version of Age of Empires or something. Then again, I doubt 10 year old kids can grasp the aspect of playing MP. Meh.
Swoosh So
12-09-2010, 23:50
Dont kid yourself some of the best players to play totalwar were in their youth when they were at their peak.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-09-2010, 23:51
I use to be a beast on VI and RTW and I was 12-13 at the time, I believe I even have a win or two over some Grey Wolves from late 2005, now I think I'm worse off then I was back then and I'm 18 going on 19:laugh:.
Magyar Khan
12-10-2010, 21:33
wow anti ..... seems our presents did make others happy....
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-10-2010, 22:30
You beat me 3 times Magy, but play me a 4th time and you may be in for a nasty surprise. :book::balloon2:
Phog_of_War
12-11-2010, 08:17
Shogun MP explained a little better. Still not totally on board with all this but I am officially now taking a 'Wait and see' stance on this whole thing. God I want to have a quality MP experience in a Total War game again.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/12/10/shogun-2-multiplayer-tested-clan-warfare-comes-to-total-war/
Gregoshi
12-11-2010, 08:47
Oh, this could be real good. Let's hope all the details big and small come together to make the MP experience as earth-shattering as the original one was to gaming itself. :2thumbsup:
Swoosh So
12-11-2010, 10:54
Seems like they've gone the route of abandoning simple elegance for gimmicky RPG/RTS features. The sad part really is that it will appeal to a lot of people and I have no doubt the RPG features will be very addictive, but it is a shame to see that what should essentially be the perfection of Total War has instead been reduced to a bunch of gimmicks plastered over normal Total War battles.
It dident appeal to alot of people in Shogun Mongol invasion expansion, we said prior to release their game modes would suck and not even new players touched them when it was released. I just mean the building part tho with the prior king of the hill mode im actually looking forward to the other parts, experienced units will just be like elite guard in ntw and that will be ok im sure. Only problem i see with elite units is in a melee game if a units too powerful over a normal unit even if it costs alot more then you can easily create a breach in a battle line just by matching that unit up against the weakest unit in the battle line.
Magyar Khan
12-11-2010, 18:28
im here with ducky..... some aspects are good.... but some arent and history has proven that to us...... but again its all about merchandising propoganda..... what selss in teh magazines.... imagine ur 16 years old...... sick of games like wow, never experienced stw1 as he is too young...... he may experience king of teh hill as a very nice concept..... for a few days/2weeks..... total wars real strength is in its gameplay, epic battles 1vs 1 towards 4 vs 4 and for me online campaigning..... clans vs clans would be nice
Togakure
12-11-2010, 21:59
If they design things in such a way that the "gimmicky' options can be included or not included at the game host's discretion, then it's pretty much win/win. Those who like the new features can use them; those who don't can exclude them. The actual ratio of games that use/don't use said features would suggest how popular certain "gimmicks' were in the long run--useful to the game makers if they capture that information for future design "intelligence." This is also not so hard to do, if they build hidden server feedback mechanisms into the game hosting process, that track how often certain features are used, etc.. Do I think they do this or consider it? No, but they could.
Gregoshi
12-12-2010, 02:05
While I'm skeptical about the "gimics", I'm going to take a wait-and-see attitude. Just because King of the Hill failed nine years ago in MI, doesn't mean it is a failed concept today. It seems like CA is putting a lot more effort into MP this time around, so maybe they will find the right way to tweak it so it works.
Swoosh So
12-12-2010, 03:05
My thoughts on each new aspect of MP:
1v1 2v2 3v3 and 4v4 leagues - excellent idea, most players just wanted a ladder this is much better with relegation and promotion.
Clan Meta Campaign - Details are sketchy at the moment but so far sounds good and should satisfy powermonger clan leaders with their ability to command their clan in the meta game :)
Bonus Buildings - The less said about these the better, The single mistake of the announced features imo.
Coop Play Campaign - Nice to give the singleplayer guys a taste of multiplayer (sort of) a nice feature im sure many will have fun with.
No improvement on MP campaign - Its already solid 1v1 but would have been nice to see an improvement in the mp campaigns in shogun2 3 players and upward.
Unit sharing: Details are sketchy it seems that in coop you can share units with an ally so 2 players are commanding the 1 army, 1 preview also states this as a multiplayer feature but maybe they just got their wires crossed, confirmed for coop not sure if its in mp.
Experienced units - why not! would function i guess like guard units in NTW, only fear i have is how much better they are than normal foot units and how much they will cost but CA balanced well the dlc units with cost and availablity/numbers.
Retainers: Bonuses i could do without in game somewhat like the buildings but not half as bad. acceptable but not preferable.
Custom Armour etc: if it floats your boat.
Custom Banners: nice!
Lack of foyer? unconfirmed Terrible decision by CA if its not in which means they ignored what the community asks for the last 3 years since they removed it. CA need to make a statement if this is in or not and soon.
Map selection: Surely must be better than NTW are we to believe that all campaign maps are available as mp battles now since the clan meta takes place on the japan map?
No map editor: Another release passes with no user made maps a huge loss since mtw1 and one that badly needs reinstated.
Bug Fixes: No mention so far.
Control imporovements: No mention so far.
Phog_of_War
12-12-2010, 04:58
Sad to say Swoosh but, I dont think CA will tell us if there is a chat foyer at all. We will just have to wait and see.
The inclusion of a foyer, or a lack of one, is a deal breaker for me. I will still end up buying the game but just for the SP because from what I have read, the changes to SP [ aside from 'quad damage buildings :-) ] actually seem really cool.
That said, I really, really, hope that this whole debacle turns out, because I really want to play and actually enjoy MP Total War. SHogun was great for MP and Med 1 was really good too.
AggonyKing
12-12-2010, 20:11
I'm afraid that this game might be turn into some little kiddie PG version of Age of Empires or something. Then again, I doubt 10 year old kids can grasp the aspect of playing MP. Meh.excuse me? Did you just call Age of Empires a kids game? That was my favorite game besides MTW to play back in the day! :(
I would hardly call it a kids game. ANyone who played Age of Empires 2 online knows how complicated it was, with getting the build order right and correct unit composition, just like Starcraft (1 and 2) and the intense macro and micro managing of individual units. Hardly a kid's game :P
and regarding the chat foyer, I asked a GameSpot UK admin about this when he recently wrote a hand-on piece about Shogun 2 and this was his response
We saw a few aspects of the set-up for MP matches, but I don't have any references to seeing an actual lobby in my notes, alas.
It could be that the MP demo that all these companies saw did not include a chat but the way I see it, its 50/50.
pevergreen
12-13-2010, 02:22
It could be that the MP demo that all these companies saw did not include a chat but the way I see it, its 50/50.
Hopefully CA follow the lesson Blizzard have learnt. Players want a lobby.
AggonyReborn
12-13-2010, 05:18
I know we all love the chat lobby, but I really think it wont be included. Overall it has its upsides. Steam is an iffy for some and for others not. As long as you make the right friends, it can make for a clear good game. I admit I miss the lobby but its not the end or even close.
Swoosh So
12-13-2010, 07:41
easy to say reborn but i can tell you the community isent a 1/10th in ntw of what it was in games with a lobby. Ive played over 400 hours ntw now and know about 30 people... whats all that about in shogun and mtw1 id know about 300 and know them well. And still the only people ive really spoken with in that 30 are the aggony guys and as anyone that knows me will tell you im not shy and ill start a convo with anyone.
well, apart that "chat-lobby" there are surely many ways to get in touch with other people.
On the other hand, it shouldnt be our job to organize that.
Still, lobby or chat isnt the main issue!
If this game becomes more people, really many, than the chat/lobby wont be useable anyway.
It might work with 100-300 people, but more no chat/lobby can manage. In most games with a chatsystem, there are many ways to customize it,
in WC3 there were many smaller rooms, there wasnt a big lobby.
But again, i worry a lot more about the unmentioned gamedetails which really are important.
Who care about a lobby, if the game is crap? Exactly, noone!
In the first place, apart all the nice pics and movies, what about the battles, some details?!?
I dont know, if CA simply lack communication skills or just have nothing new/different to come up with.
Fact is, we get nothing important, its like all the other years, same as always. Which tell me one thing:
the game wont be much different than the last 10 years.
CA is in a dilemma, they need to come up with something new, but the system/game itself hasnt much more room.
What they could change?
The basics of the game are at its end. We surely can be a bit angry about the lack of information, but on the other hand, do you really expected CA involving some of out points/input?
Some things never change, and that there will be a massive focus on the Mplayer part sounds maybe nice in the first moment, but after all, this game simply lack any potential of becoming
a huge online game with many thousands player.
Its so simple, everyone with some brain can understand it.
The battles have to be complex, if you make it easy, it wont work.
But to get more player, you have to make it easier.
If you make it easier, it wont work....
and so on...
No way out.
We said it so many times: Keep it simple.
But the only way, to bring new things into the game, is to make it more complex and the same time, less balanced.
Matchmaking system works in many other games, it cant work in TW, simply as there are too many options to play the game.
Weather, unitsize, cash, maps, eras.... also keep in mind all those selfmade rules, with max kind of units, no art ....
Hell, no way this can ever work.
To get somewhere at all, there has to be one way to play the game.
Weather shouldnt have any effect, one amount of cash, and so on...
Ensure, that the units are balanced, so we dont have to make own rules.
To get people use the matchmaker, you just have to stick a ladder on it. So only about the matchmaker you can get a rating game.
Thats simple, that will work.
Get the basics done.
Again, actual i miss the information about how those basics will be working. This tells me, that these important things are not important for CA at all.
Koc
As usual, I can't disagree with your points kocmoc.
It is really what they want vs what we want. Which ultimately comes down to a difference in numbers of players.
Difference being, that is what they try to aim for, while in our case, it will be a result coming from the things we want.
Maybe a short post, but it seems around here, we're all are agreeing with each other in broad terms. And there is not much left to say, as there is too few information. And it is not like they'll will listen anyways. ;)
After all these years and something simple as running and hard rubber banded units has been over looked and not really improved at all... yet not many seemed to be bothered with it when those are core things in the game starting from ground up when you're making a game. Controls and how units respond and move on the battlefield and balance are Key for getting solid gameplay before moving onto the campaign and mp layout at least I would think anyway.
They have "big" plans yet may over look again something that needed attention since day one in STW days.
I have grown tired of it... when you combine that with steam drops and load of immature kids you can only take so much. It's a shame because TW is good, but it could be great. :)
You can't just add stuff without ironing out the faults in the other things with the game first and expect your game to sell more copies and keep a bigger crowd which is what they are expecting to happen.
Swoosh So
12-13-2010, 19:19
Well for me the leagues and other clan meta are interesting, the buildings are a disaster waiting tho happen tho its so obvious any player worth their salt knows buildings will suck ca dont they worry about people sitting in deploy zones talk about wired to the moon... This is why their mp team should have opened discussions with the community but zippo not a word from them, who are they noone knows... . But aside from these buildings (urg cant even stand to mention them anymore) im positive about the changes listed even if they did ignore everything the community asked for. I just hope they also plan on giving a solid game too with many maps or all their efforts on the leagues and meta games are worthless.
AggonyKing
12-13-2010, 19:35
I still don't understand where they got the idea that camping was such a big issue that they had to take a "drastic" measure :/ who did they poll for this?
Swoosh So
12-13-2010, 19:38
One word TWC there all raving about camping over there :D way to go to make much ado about nothing and send ca off on the wrong track. Some of the guys posting this crap have said in other threads theyre thinking to try mp for the first time in shogun 2 weeeeeeee
AggonyKing
12-13-2010, 19:52
*facepalm* suddenly it all makes sense :(
I now eagerly wait to deliver some MP justice on all those whiners :knight:
I been thinking about the buildings and I can honestly say the idea is not a bad idea as long as the bonuses do not completely overpower the terrain bonus and are simple. For example, small boost to an archer unit so that you can out range the camping player, forcing him/her to move.
I can live with simple bonuses like that, but I would love to see a cooldown between bonuses, a limit on uses, and a "can only use on one unit" rule just like with the inspire and rally bonus that NTW gen units have.
As long as the bonus does not completely destroy the terrain advantage, but evens it out juuuuuuust a little. I am worried that all this time CA has said "negate terrain advantage" though :/
Swoosh So
12-13-2010, 20:07
Trust me king bonus to archer range is a nightmare, you will have players kiting their opponents over the map. what about maps with low hills or balanced terrain then you stick increased archer range in. Total disaster. On the bright side thats just a bonus someone mentioned dont htink ca would be so crazy to put it in game.
Swoosh So
12-13-2010, 20:09
The point is they serve no purpose, ca want them in so players move out of deploy zones! Players always move out of deploy zones unless theyre totally new in which case they wont even know what a bonus building is.
Typical movement in a 3v3 chosen at random from my replay list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6-FW-GGZd0 no need for these silly buildings.
AggonyKing
12-13-2010, 20:22
the movement in that game looks so messy :P *subscribes*
anyway, although I agree with you I am trying to think positively as I don't think CA are going to take the buildings out at all :( Mind you that gen bonuses in ntw do expire on a unit after a a while. So if the follow this same process, increased archer range (or any other random bonus) wouldn't be that much of a problem or not as effective. You can either move back and wait it out, etc (btw totally speculating on bonuses just for idea purposes :P ) I also don't see a problem with this type of bonus if the balance to it (and the rest of the bonuses) is applied correctly. I'm accostumed to facing missile units with higher range than mine's. Its all about adjusting, but I hope CA does release a bunch of maps (20 at least :D ) for tourney support with no crazy buildings or any other shenanigans.
btw are you going to be uploading more movement replays? they're kinda interesting to look at :P
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-13-2010, 20:25
Well at least I hope the MP sieges are good. :help::balloon2:
LordWolf
12-13-2010, 21:48
the movement in that game looks so messy :P *subscribes*
anyway, although I agree with you I am trying to think positively as I don't think CA are going to take the buildings out at all :( Mind you that gen bonuses in ntw do expire on a unit after a a while. So if the follow this same process, increased archer range (or any other random bonus) wouldn't be that much of a problem or not as effective. You can either move back and wait it out, etc (btw totally speculating on bonuses just for idea purposes :P ) I also don't see a problem with this type of bonus if the balance to it (and the rest of the bonuses) is applied correctly. I'm accostumed to facing missile units with higher range than mine's. Its all about adjusting, but I hope CA does release a bunch of maps (20 at least :D ) for tourney support with no crazy buildings or any other shenanigans.
btw are you going to be uploading more movement replays? they're kinda interesting to look at :P
I can't wait as well! Well, in shogun 1, you had a dozen maps according to a province... Anyhow, i just hope that on the multiplayer campaign map, you don't fight a random oponent, because it would be a skirmish, without any real strategical objectives. That's probably the major drawback of the "risk" map, where you actualy have a strategical objective to achieve!
One word TWC there all raving about camping over there :D way to go to make much ado about nothing and send ca off on the wrong track. Some of the guys posting this crap have said in other threads theyre thinking to try mp for the first time in shogun 2 weeeeeeee
Not only TWC though, its a bit on TW.com as well, though most of it had been aiming at ETW. Which kinda makes a bit sense (though I obviously don't agree) the way CA works, being a version inbetween.
Also, though this might be just a hunch, it is possible they changed their coding into a different and more effecient format simply to streamline their stuff and perhaps be more compatible with Steam. Sucks to be a modder but as a result it may end up in better stability and smoother gameplay.
I enjoyed the replay Swoosh, I even started to watch some of my own replays zoomed out all the way. Especially naval battles turn out to be funny, as its like circles trying to swirl around and into each other. :)
Don't want to say too much about these buildings anymore, as it is really turning into a tiresome and annoying topic. It sucks, but its not like CA will listen on this matter. Hehehe it may result into more camping actually, as one may not want to move into combat facing an enemy holding the building, while he doesn't want to move in either afraid to loose said bonus.
Phog_of_War
12-14-2010, 03:28
Don't want to say too much about these buildings anymore, as it is really turning into a tiresome and annoying topic. It sucks, but its not like CA will listen on this matter. Hehehe it may result into more camping actually, as one may not want to move into combat facing an enemy holding the building, while he doesn't want to move in either afraid to loose said bonus.
See that's the problem. People camp now because either they have a position which they think is unassailable (its really not) or they are just inexperienced. It cant be changed now, true enough, but I do think that one of two things will happen with the buildings. Either they will lead to building huggers or they will be like the farmhouse at the actual Battle of Waterloo which was fought over, with high casualties on both sides, and was the key position on the Waterloo battlefield.
Obviously its the latter that CA is shooting for but I'm afraid that we will see people hugging buildings as a sort of crutch.
Gregoshi
12-14-2010, 04:42
Unfortunately, the kinds of details you all want to know are the boring things that don't generate much interest beyond a relatively small group of old STW players. Those details lack the "wow" factor and don't generate interest in the game or in readers of the article. Did we get the kinds of details you are asking for in the STW previews? I don't think so. It was stuff about unit and individual AI and how Sun Tzu's rules are programmed into the game.
I also don't think CA is stupid and will intentionally allow gross imbalances to happen in the game. My biggest concern - and probably a concern for most games in general - is that the testing be sufficient enough to reveal flaws and exploits that the wider community of tens of thousands of gamers will find six hours after the game is released that the beta testers did not find if they are not good or imaginative enough.
but... but... The biggest "wow" factor to me are the smallest improvements on controls, units, maps, and everything that is core to the battles and improving the replayability. The SP campaign improvements and MP addons are just extras... more so the SP improvments, but in the end just extras. I mean what's TW without good replayable battles... battles you want to keep going into? :)
I've played way to many RTS/TBRTS games with great ideas to them, but their core to the game was flawed and it seems that they were hoping to sell a lot of copies based mostly on their idea and a little flash with it and hoping to get away with little effort in fixing what made the game really replayable.
TW is lucky to have its core not flawed to much and sells the rest off with a lot of flash and have become good at it therefore making them the best on the market right now.
Swoosh So
12-14-2010, 19:52
Heres some music to your ears guys!
IanRox Ca quote:
Hi all,
I just thought I'd jump in and confirm a few things for you all:
1) There is full lobby chat. And clan chat.
2) There is a full 'classic total war' mode which works in the same way that TW MP always has. Key buildings will be able to be disabled by the host in this mode.
I hope this clarifies things for you all
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-14-2010, 20:00
Heres some music to your ears guys!
IanRox Ca quote:
Hi all,
I just thought I'd jump in and confirm a few things for you all:
1) There is full lobby chat. And clan chat.
2) There is a full 'classic total war' mode which works in the same way that TW MP always has. Key buildings will be able to be disabled by the host in this mode.
I hope this clarifies things for you all
Chat lobby.... Jesus Christ thank you...:balloon2::balloon2::balloon2::balloon2:
Swoosh So
12-14-2010, 20:15
This games starting to get me really excited with the new infos coming out, sounds like it could be one of the best mp releases of the series and being the first totalwar game to be a 3rd generation of the same engine im really expecting big things!!
Reenk Roink
12-14-2010, 21:17
Heres some music to your ears guys!
IanRox Ca quote:
Hi all,
I just thought I'd jump in and confirm a few things for you all:
1) There is full lobby chat. And clan chat.
2) There is a full 'classic total war' mode which works in the same way that TW MP always has. Key buildings will be able to be disabled by the host in this mode.
I hope this clarifies things for you all
They are catering to all, which is the best way to go about it. :balloon: To be honest I was somewhat excited about the new MP, but if it turns out to be crappy, we can always go back to the original. :2thumbsup:
Most excellent and exciting.
AggonyKing
12-14-2010, 22:06
now I will get this game for sure :2thumbsup::2thumbsup::2thumbsup::2thumbsup::2thumbsup::2thumbsup:
how exciting! :laugh4:
Phog_of_War
12-15-2010, 03:17
Sweet! Im in. See you maniacs on the battlefields.
FearofFucy
12-15-2010, 05:30
Trying to teach my daughter STW1. Hope she gets good before STW2 comes out. :)
By the way, good to see you all again.
Swoosh So
12-15-2010, 06:22
Hey! my old totalwar mentor :D great to see you fucy! Im sure under your guidance she will become and honorable warrior :) Hope lifes still being great to you! Would be nice to see you back in shogun2 for a wee game now and then!
Gregoshi
12-15-2010, 07:52
And there was much rejoicing...
AggonyReborn
12-15-2010, 08:01
Ouch! stop throwing rocks at me swoosh! the lobby is intact. my head on the choping block. I surrender! :) good news. :D :D :D
Heres some music to your ears guys!
IanRox Ca quote:
Hi all,
I just thought I'd jump in and confirm a few things for you all:
1) There is full lobby chat. And clan chat.
2) There is a full 'classic total war' mode which works in the same way that TW MP always has. Key buildings will be able to be disabled by the host in this mode.
I hope this clarifies things for you all
Great news
Waves to Fucy welcome back :)
Heh. I am still baffled and very confused about what to post now. :)
Heh. I am still baffled and very confused about what to post now. :)
Map creator harrassment? they havnt mentioned that?
:P
Oh yes. Just let me catch my breath first. :)
AggonyKing
12-15-2010, 18:00
Heh. I am still baffled and very confused about what to post now. :)i say we complain at the lack of a MP Beta from now on >_>
Swoosh So
12-15-2010, 18:59
Heh it is strange having most requests fulfilled pre release :) Ca have done a great job so far on shogun 2 it has to be said.
Jochi Khan
12-15-2010, 20:54
Heres some music to your ears guys!
IanRox Ca quote:
Hi all,
I just thought I'd jump in and confirm a few things for you all:
1) There is full lobby chat. And clan chat.
2) There is a full 'classic total war' mode which works in the same way that TW MP always has. Key buildings will be able to be disabled by the host in this mode.
I hope this clarifies things for you all
After feeling so 'down' with all the negative vibes this news has now really cheered me up.
Looking forward to the release date now. :yes:
And a big 'hello' to Fucy. Long time no see. ~:cheers:
Phog_of_War
12-15-2010, 23:54
@King
Lol! Stop while your ahead. Or damn the torpedos! :charge:
@SwooshSo
Indeed. Maybe some MP gameplay or something like that. They say that MP is the next big thing for Shogun 2 and yet all weve seen is a Dev vs. AI seige, in the rain, in the dark. How about a daytime fight between just a few units in the daytime. Dont get me wrong, the weather effects look great, and the fire arrows are some real nice eye candy but lets face it; most of the MP battles probably wont be sieges.
And we've yet to see if the weather does truly affect the battlefield. 'That hill we're marching up sure is slippery, what with it being the rainy/monsoon season here in Japan and all Tai-Sho. And during the winter it will be kind of slick too, sir.' says the marching samurai. Do soldiers and horse slip and fall occationally in the elements? Will wind and rain affect archer accuracy and range?
Obviously, these questions are small potatos compared to the fact that CA seemed to have really taken the creme-de-la-crem of the MP suggestions over the years and developed a system that really harkens back to the Glory Days of the love affair that started 10 years ago with Shogun. I say pip pip hooray....if it all works. :laugh4:
No, in all seriousnes I think that if it all works out, with the lobbys being restored, the MP and the SP changes, as well as the very, very, intresting Clan Warfare and Ladder systems I read about, well, it sounds truly epic! And epic, is EXACTLY what any Total War game or expansion should strive to be.
Perhaps the above adulations are premature, perhaps not. But you have to admit that it seems that for one of those rare momensts in time, a company really listened to their customers and fanbase. And maybe, just maybe, squeezed out a gem.
Magyar Khan
12-18-2010, 14:31
well even on a plain grass map i doubt the ai will be tested good enuf, the devs just arent good enough i think.... and when it comes to seasonal weather effects im in favour of that although it should be kept playable..... gameplay>realism
hey schumster... ;)
I would think the most important "core" requests would be filled first and promoted and that would be the biggest "wow" factor for everyone, but I guess I'm an outdated old doggy who misses the old school games that were simple near perfect balance and had yrs of replayability.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-18-2010, 18:51
What's the big deal about grassy flatland?
AggonyReborn
12-19-2010, 04:20
grassy is the best map for no terrain advantage for any side. each side starts off equal. The only thing that would make a difference is how each team builds their armies.
Swoosh So
12-20-2010, 07:52
Grassy flatland = lol
flatmap was the first drawback in TW. To even allow that such a map is played is more than stupid, never should happen!
Im sure, that almost 100% of all online games was fought on that flat, green map, without any single tree or anything else.
That time you had the "hidden" advantage for the defender, so you did end almost always with some bordercamping.....
Anyway, the defs who create the AI or test the battles simply dont focus on the overall battle.
They just watch certain things, like shooting, how looks the cavcharge, does units move correctly.
If the overall battle "looks okay", they are done.
You simply cant explain, why on earth we dont got colors to choose from, 3 times same nation and your doomed.
This just shows how they test, they never mixed their armies, they probably always go 3x 1v1 in their tests (if they even test 3v3...).
Its logical and clearly seen.
Same goes for those buildings or stones, hidden walls and so on... Its impossible to not notice, unless you dont care for it, since you are a terrible player and have no clue!
From a point of history, houses or little towns has huge effect, no doubt. But this is a game, we dont need realism in the first place, we need gameplay.
In NTW its pointless to attack a house, you send units and and than wait... What has that to do with tactic or playstyle? has it any effect, how you move your units?!? No.
This shows once again, how the Devs look at the game, if you have a very fare view on the battle it surely is a good idea. It creates a tactical momentum, but the way its done, is too simple and doom the tactical complexity of this game.
I could bring up many more examples...
One last note on it, People speak about to make that optional, so you can turn it on/off.
I personal wonder, how this should work with the stated goal of massiv multiplay?!?!?
This is getting complex again, endless of options you can turn on or off, endless of things....
I fear, that we getting a game, which isnt bad, but you hardly find many people who like the setups you like.
Which ends once again in no matchupgames and tons of different gamestyles... which isnt bad in the first place, but with not too many people it is.
Koc
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-20-2010, 16:18
grassy is the best map for no terrain advantage for any side. each side starts off equal. The only thing that would make a difference is how each team builds their armies.
And it's boring and offers no challenge. In another maps there are challenges because you actually have to learn how to maneuver.
Hello Kocmoc,
A guy by the name Rob made some tools for the original STW, including a mapflattener. That was on my request as I was making a lot of custom maps back then. That was done by loading a map into the demo editor. Making maps that had a totally different look and feel was difficult and time consuming, and so I wanted a blank sheet of paper so to speak. Since there were more people into making maps, that blank sheet was shared. It helped me to make more maps, maps with hills, trees and so on. As I also played some MP, I learned that different people look for different types of maps. Some people look for massive hills, other look for plains with little subtle advantages in the center to have highly tactical (the way they define that) games, others want some sort of fortification, a bridge, some want awesome scenary, others seek for some abstract stuff. To each his own. There were 100's of people playing all those different kinds of maps, I don't think we got a problem with it.
The grassy flatland map also had another advantage: it helpen people understand how units worked. I know that I played quite some skirmisch battles offline on a flatmap to learn about units. But I played any other map as well.
I agree about the same nations/colors: it's very confusing. But some people love it.
Options. Personally, I think it means that it attracts more people and keeps them playing it. More people playing it means more sold copies and a larger fanbase, which also means it's more likely that something like a better server will become available and simply keeps the series in business. People will be forced to agree about some options, or no one will play. But it's options they choose and not options forced upon them by the creators. Along the way they can tweak things for themselves to get even better gameplay. Better gameplay for them, not what others tell them to do. There will be several groups, when eaach group is as large as the original STW MP community, nothing blocks the way to have a healthy MP experience, with the added benefit of a much larger total community. The alternative is just one healthy MP experience the size of STW.
The stated goal of a massive multiplay, in the sense of 100's of gamers on one battlefield, is just a dream and miles away. I don't think it will ever get there. But the different leagues and settings, that we could have had since day one.
If you ask me about problems with MP, there are many, but a big one is the bad support to share options and tweaks. Even a simple thing like a new map requires a download from a fansite, a sometimes hours nightmare to get it installed into the right place and a reboot. The no options for MP has reached a new high level by only having 3 (?) maps in NTW and not allowing the inclusion of more.
There's manoeuvring in flatmaps too Warman.
Tosa,
I have no proof, but i tell you that in STW and also in MTW you just saw the flatmap all the time. Im sure here are some guys who will/can agree about this.
The idea behind a flat map is clear and logical. I dont mind the testing unit vs unit or testing something.
One thing for sure, once you give people a flat map its just a question of time, until almost every online game will be played on this map.
In my opinion, its a bad thing, simply as it cuts a lot of the gamemecanics and the gameplay off. But of course i see the "advance" of it.
About options. It doesnt matter, if some player like colors or not, it also doesnt matter, if we can turn many things on or off, as long the goal is: Many online player - many battles - using matchmaker.
Matchmaker is the only way to get the thousands of player into games, to make the matchmaker working, we need no options.
Maybe im not clear. I personal love tons of options, its nice. But it wont work with many player. It dont work right now and it wont work any better, if there are really many player.
Its logical. The game is complex, too complex to be a success in online multiplay.
The gameplay is fine as it is, but all those options .... thats too much.
In all my posts the last weeks, i almost never touched the "support" thing. :D
CA has almost no support and never had, i save my energy and dont enrage on this matter anymore.... pointless.
In the first place, we need a good working first version of STW2, if CA mess up nothing can help us.
If I read about this general thing and houses and also the idea of doing this, i start crying.
I repeat myself, this game is at its limit since some years, nothing left to improve. The battles are fine and all you really can do is, to improve the graphics.
Exactly this leads to this weird ideas of giving the general talents or let you using units just every few games.
This things will cause insane problems, how to balance something you can just use every (lets say) 4 games and give you an huge advance?!?!?
How new player will act, if they get rolled the first time, but a very good general?
Maybe the effect is very small, but its an unfair advance.
Alone the camerasetting in NTW is unfair, new player comes in and unless someone tells you about the camera, your doomed to play so close about the units, that you have no chance at all.
If you have no idea, that maps are bugged, units move weird ways and so on....
I believe in fairplay, skill is one thing, but what CA is creating right now is just complex and impossible to balance.
Balance and gameplay, its all about this. If we also have good server who dont disconnect us, than we almost have a good game.
Koc
AggonyDuck
12-21-2010, 12:43
Tosa,
How new player will act, if they get rolled the first time, but a very good general?
Maybe the effect is very small, but its an unfair advance.
Alone the camerasetting in NTW is unfair, new player comes in and unless someone tells you about the camera, your doomed to play so close about the units, that you have no chance at all.
New players get rolled as it is due to the high learning curve of the game. It might even be that the "unfairness" might spur players on to play more to achieve an even playing field. As to the camera setting, it is possible to be a very successful player without utilising it. I didn't start utilising the debugged camera until this summer.
Hello Kocmoc,
That's for sure, the Flatmap was played a lot in all TW's I know. More than any other map I think. It indeed cuts a mechanic off as well as certain tactics. Heightbonusses won't work, try to hide some spare units in a forest, or cover vulnerable melee units from gunfire. But flatmaps are not without tactics.
I agree about a matchmaker being very nice and required even, by that we mean the chatlobby and hosting like we had in STW, don't we? I've been playing some other games and often missed a lobby, it makes live a lot easier.
Maybe, some people seem to dislike the ability to chose, for others'no options and limited possibilities to get their own stuff played online (be it maps or mods) is a reason to call it a day.
By support I meant the functionality of the software, more precisely autodownloading of required files, hotswapping, storage/management and CRC's. A community can do a lot of those other things. (given the game provides all required functionality, a lot of that was available since STW and it started to become available for MP, but after VI it took a dive again. So, the game can still be improved lots for MP).
Tbh I just hope we have some sort of Map creation tool, I really do miss the days of logging into the Org and getting the latest community created map pack and trying those maps out. NTW suffers from a shocking set of maps.
The flat maps in Shogun never bothered me tbh because they were at least creative and not just a green field like some of CA's efforts. Flat maps have always been the prefered 1v1 learning arena anyway. I think a lot of us old vets were spoilt as we learnt on Totomi which although slightly favouring the defender had a wealth of attacking possibilities, I hope it returns what a great map that was.
I don't recall many of the tournys being played on flat maps, cwc tends to swap things around mapwise.
:juggle2:
AggonyKing
12-21-2010, 18:05
New players get rolled as it is due to the high learning curve of the game. It might even be that the "unfairness" might spur players on to play more to achieve an even playing field. As to the camera setting, it is possible to be a very successful player without utilising it. I didn't start utilising the debugged camera until this summer.I didn't start using it until last week and I honestly notice no huge difference. Sure you can see higher and farther but regardless, you still got to react to enemy movements, ally movements, etc.
and going into the flat maps discussion, for me, they where the most challenging as you really had to dig deep into your bag of tricks. Its not easy to go up against a wall and break it. Other non flat maps have very obvious advantages that over time you learn how to counter. I will say however, the flat maps from shogun/mtw/vi should not be compared to these etw/ntw one. Etw/ntw to me that map is more easy and less challenging as the tactic is straight forward every time, whereas the ones from the previous total wars was harder to master.
What I liked about STW is how simple it was, yet could take a very long time before you developed the skills to be a real competitive player in the game. Same with my other top two favorite games Populous and World in Conflict, these were easy games to learn, but hard to really master and become a top dog, some could play them for a year and only just be an average player. STW though even well balanced and had good gameplay, still had tons of room to improve itself in many areas, but many core key things remain untouched to this day, and some of these things that could be improved on "need" to be improved, IMHO. I wish Populous series and World In Conflict kept going, but unfortunately they did not which is a real shame, so I'm left with TW and hoping they get it right, because I really want to return back to TW with STW2.
The camerafreedom gives a nice advantage over someone who doesn't use it, but it's not a game winner that's for sure. It should be the standard camera with a couple of fixes to it, but 10 years later it's not even in as an option, so most newbies will be at a slight disadvantage because most won't know to go looking for such a thing. I knew to go looking for it because I used it in STW and I hate playing without it, it's like they are trying to force to you look at the "pretty pretty" and not pay attention to the whole of things. I tried to look for such a thing in Populous which I played before STW was out, but sadly it wasn't possible with the game, which sucked because being able to zoom out more in that game would've made it so much more enjoyable to play. And with World in Conflict that game didn't have camerafreedom as an option, but you could add it in somewhat the same way you do with the TW camerafreedom. I had to bring it up on the forums in World in Conflict and get many people talking about it before it got added as an option, because only a small handful used it and no one really talked about it, some of the so called "pros" didn't know about it or use it. And when they did add it in as a option it was broken and didn't keep top scroll speed O.o..
The amount of people who never used camerafreedom in TW and WiC or don't care to use it is quite astonishing, but nevertheless should be the standard camera for strategy games if it fits with the game, I would think anyway. Will it be in STW2 atleast as an option? I doubt it cause kiddies these days don't mind the standard bumpy road driven camera and looking at the "pretty pretty".
Flatland maps are always good to have for playtesting and if you want a complete 100% fair match when you only have time for one game. To me I think it would be best to have two games played one game each as attacker and defender and winner could be decided by like best kill/loss worth or something, so playing on a map will hills and trees wouldn't matter. Most games I saw up in NTW were clannies playing on the flat map or newbies wanting to stat pad their stars playing on settings best for them and here is me with swoosh playing on a normal map and attacking. Am I an outdated dog or something for not being addicted to flatmaps or stat padding going for easy wins to boost my star count so I can feel special about myself for having lots of stars, but got them being cheap even though in the end they mean very little. That just reminds me of all the pub stars in WiC which would brag about their medals and stars, but if you played them in a clan match "if you could ever get them into a clan match" or even in a 1v1 normal mode, they'd get rolled. I guess their stars and medals can't save them when they are forced to play the game the way it was meant to be played. And I always got a chuckle out of playing someone who plays mostly flat maps in TW on a regular map with hills and trees and that player disregards the hills and woods having his units exposed or shooting at a hill wasting ammo. And after the match he'd ask for a rematch on a flat map claiming he's much better on them and claiming that anything else is "unfair".
Now TW battles have buildings on the maps which give a bonus and upgrades and such, so they can just say that TW is evolving and they want MP to be just as popular as SP? You can have a very popular MP without that stuff by just getting your basics right and near perfect ( of course not perfect cause we know that's impossible ). To this day some of your basic problems still go untouched and now they are throwing more on to balance out instead of trying to prefect what they already have. Clan ladders and match making are all well and good, but what about your basic problems in the gameplay which in the end makes the game replayable ( to me that would be 1# on my list ). Gameplay #1 balance of units, #2 how units move on the battlefield and interact when engaging and engaged with the enemy, #3 controls, camera, UI, maps, unit sizes, etc, and it helps to be able to what's going on in the battlefield without just looking at the banners.... this is the core you got to get right first and after that you branch yourself out to other options. Some options which we've been asking for many years ago and could use, we still haven't gotten yet, like a map editor along with the ability to download newly made maps from the host when you join a game.
The match making will only do so much because you can't have it without having a standard play and one of the biggest divides on that is "unit sizes" and I think always will be. Games like StarCraft, WarCraft, and DawnofWar which I played all have a standard so match making for them is no problem. You can't have your casual gamer who tends to like more bigger unit sizes and your more competitive gamer who likes the medium sized units both trying to play the same match making and if you separate the two than what's next? No one will use it much because the lack of a standard, you need something which everyone can play and agree on.
Another thing that has a big hiccup to a big MP is Steam. How many times have I d/c'ed because connection to Steam was lost, way to many. So what servers are we getting to make this work? I mean what are we gonna have hosting, it be random in the match making as to which player gets to be host and also needing Steam as a 3rd party which can d/c you in the middle of a match? I don't even know why you need Steam running while you're in game as to what role it plays during a match.
TW in the end I think will always be good, but could've been great. And is it greed or lack of imagination or really just lack of resources and money? Who knows the answer to that question...
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-21-2010, 18:56
There's manoeuvring in flatmaps too Warman.
I know there is, but there is a lack of creatively when it comes time to manoevure on the map.
but creativity on flatmaps is at its purest form... :)
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-21-2010, 19:31
But I want a good challenging game AMP, not the same dull maneuver tactics I see all the time on flatland games.
:pimp:
I know Warman we all want a good challenging game and that should come from who you play against where the map should just spice things up. If the map isn't flat, but is still somewhat fair and not over kill for the attacker to overcome all is good, but still if you're playing against someone who is about equal skill it's doubtful you'll win. This is why it's a good idea to have a system where you swap sides and allow victor to be the one with the best kill/loss worth or some hopefully near perfect score system. I really dislike unwinnable surprise matches that people setup when you try to join someones stat pad game. At least on a flatmap I know I can't get screwed over to bad, so it's always good to have them for many reasons. :)
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-21-2010, 20:39
Oh good point AMP, I think I would have a better game against you on flatland 1v1 then I would with a newbie on NTW (though I would still lose :laugh4:) , but It would get boring after awhile. However, doing a 1v1 on a (mostly) flatland map with small hills and/or forests would make it even more interesting.
Just my opinion I held the past 6 years 9 months, that's all. :pimp:.
AggonyKing
12-21-2010, 20:52
Oh good point AMP, I think I would have a better game against you on flatland 1v1 then I would with a newbie on NTW (though I would still lose :laugh4:) , but It would get boring after awhile. However, doing a 1v1 on a (mostly) flatland map with small hills and/or forests would make it even more interesting.
Just my opinion I held the past 6 years 9 months, that's all. :pimp:.hmm I could had swore we did a 1v1 on a relatively small hills and/or forest flatland map :P
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-21-2010, 21:22
hmm I could had swore we did a 1v1 on a relatively small hills and/or forest flatland map :P
No, it was grassy flatlands and you overwhelm me. :laugh4:
AggonyKing
12-21-2010, 21:28
No, it was grassy flatlands and you overwhelm me. :laugh4:you need to get out of your Castle 2_5_2 more :P
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-21-2010, 22:12
My bro got a new comp, so I think I will.:book:
New players get rolled as it is due to the high learning curve of the game. It might even be that the "unfairness" might spur players on to play more to achieve an even playing field. As to the camera setting, it is possible to be a very successful player without utilising it. I didn't start utilising the debugged camera until this summer.
Lets get to your points.
1. Of course gets player rolled by the high learning curve, but to make it even worser and also tell that the player, you instantly create more problems than needed.
Like always, people tend to think that it isnt the skill who beats them, they think its the extra bonus.... so its logical, that this invention isnt in the favor of new player.
2. That "unfairness spur player... sorry, maybe there are a few who like it, but thats surely a minority. Till today i never found a huge amount of people who love to get beaten all the day...
3. camera settings. thats really funny, till summer :D its surely not that needed with ETW, simply as you never spread your army like you do with NTW.
In NTW it is a huge difference, if you have a heavy zoom-out. Again, it is about what is possible and what is known, it makes no difference, if you use it or not. Its just about, new player know it or not. In the end its unfair. You know it and can decide, if you use it or not. New player dont know it and cant decide, if useful or not...
But I want a good challenging game AMP, not the same dull maneuver tactics I see all the time on flatland games.
:pimp:
I can agree with you on this fact for NTW, it wasnt the case with Shogun though mainly due to gun battles not lasting the entire fight and a much larger variety of strategys available to you.
NTWs flat battles do my head in and at times can result in 20 minutes of just moving backwards and forwards to get the best shooting position, the shooting in Shogun was normally a feeling out period before melee clashes, unless you were facing Ampster then quite likely the shooting woulnt last long :P
Well unlike in stw/mtw, in etw/ntw you got like 16 units of pavises with instant anti-cav capabilities plus some cav.
So yes, flatland battles would end up very differently for both games.
Lets get to your points.
1. Of course gets player rolled by the high learning curve, but to make it even worser and also tell that the player, you instantly create more problems than needed.
Like always, people tend to think that it isnt the skill who beats them, they think its the extra bonus.... so its logical, that this invention isnt in the favor of new player.
When a (new) player likes playing on a flatmap, then that's his right. While a flatmap might not be the cup of tea of other players, it's better for us all when he stays around (more users). When he feels none of the available maps are good, he won't stick around and he won't help attract new players who might like non flat maps (too).
S2TW should include a flatmap as well as a mix of other maps (plains with a small hill, plains and some woods, big woods, monstrous hills with woods, maps with fortification). Not a few maps with compromises everywhere, but several sets of very different maps so there's something for every taste. Topped by a mapeditor.
In RTW there's a worldmap. From the little I toyed around there, it appears that this worldmap is used to render a battlemap in realtime [it's possible to manipulate this worldmap and then the battlemap turns out differently]. So, you have the whole map of Japan and 'throw a dart' at some location. Then the info from there is used to generate the battlemap. I thought it was a nice system, why isn't it available for MP too? Add a favouritelist so you can store your preferred battlecoordinates, and replay Totomi over and over again. In the mapeditor, there's also a random terraineditor. It's basic, but that way no-one will know what he's going to get, generals will be forced to read the terrain then and there and won't be able to get the upper hand because only one general knows about that seemingly flat terrain actually being a small hill. That favouritelist was available, just in some odd way. RTW had a mapeditor. When S2TW is going to get everything the old titles had, but in a MP friendly way, it's going to be nice mapwise.
Magyar Khan
12-24-2010, 20:14
well tosa that mapselector option is already listed at the wishlist and imo its so easy to make.... store coordinates and give it a name u want and make sure u can upload it...... and every map in sp is available in mp....
Yes Magyar, and it's been part of a title already, just not in a convenient way. I understand that seemingly simple features often generate more problems than expected. But it happens quite a lot that (great) possibilities are in the game and just don't take off because it's not fully implemented. Is it not there because the options/possibilities are not visible for the developers or is it disabled because it caused problems somewhere else? I think both are true. Some old games solve the latter problem by creating two separate executables, one for SP and one for MP. SP isn't held back by special MP requirements and the other way around.
Headhurler
12-26-2010, 02:00
I was just thinking about getting back into total war, and I saw this, very excited about it, especially the clan meta campaign (maybe we are not that far from having a massive multiplayer persistent map, with everybody having their army somewhere on it, to give really interesting battles.)
As for grassy flatland, in RTW everybody played with in 1.1/1.2 because it was the only map that was remotely playable (until people learned how to import every map from the SP), considering that the hills on every other map were generally steepest at the red line, and the melee bonus for being higher up was huge.
Anyways, maybe I need to start playing either STW or RTW with what little time I have these days (what do people play besides NTW, tried it out and hated it.)
(OOC:Magyar Khan, I tried to register on the new Wolves forums, but it won't send out the confirmation e-mail. Know how I can fix this?)
Headhurler
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-26-2010, 15:47
I can agree with you on this fact for NTW, it wasnt the case with Shogun though mainly due to gun battles not lasting the entire fight and a much larger variety of strategys available to you.
NTWs flat battles do my head in and at times can result in 20 minutes of just moving backwards and forwards to get the best shooting position, the shooting in Shogun was normally a feeling out period before melee clashes, unless you were facing Ampster then quite likely the shooting woulnt last long :P
I noticed this trend on flatlands and usually whoever inflicted the first couple good volleys usually won the game before flanking was even in order. Even on different maps I noticed the time with shooting but they weren't as bad as on flatlands.
Magyar Khan
12-26-2010, 22:24
what a liked abiout stw is that even if the enemy had only hth units and started to rush u with his nodachi monks spear army that the arrows of your bows could even do enough damage on teh monks and nodachi that u had a reasonable chance to beat the rush..... and this balance between (muskets and/vs bows) vs (hand to hand units) is fragile but needs to be very good to make the game great
Magyar Khan
12-26-2010, 22:28
(OOC:Magyar Khan, I tried to register on the new Wolves forums, but it won't send out the confirmation e-mail. Know how I can fix this?)
Headhurler
mmm dont know for yet i took this option to keep the russian hacker advertising out....... when we get a more active forum i will make it more solid..... we have plans to reinstall our old forums....
Sorry but I have to tell that I don't understand few issues mentioned into this discussion?
What is so great into multiplayer chat?
It's nothing special - its normal into multiplayer game. We have to tell somply - today multiplayer (both into Empire and Napoleon) is terrible. But CA can't claim that NORMAL multiplayer is great achievement.
A multiplayer chat is a basic must have, that's true KrooK. I think people are happy about it being there and CA working on it.
Magyar Khan
12-29-2010, 17:19
if u look it that way krook than ur right :)
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
12-29-2010, 22:55
Sorry but I have to tell that I don't understand few issues mentioned into this discussion?
What is so great into multiplayer chat?
It's nothing special - its normal into multiplayer game. We have to tell somply - today multiplayer (both into Empire and Napoleon) is terrible. But CA can't claim that NORMAL multiplayer is great achievement.
True- but a MP chat is important part of the game though Krook.
ytghazal
01-04-2011, 17:45
i probably wont play shogun 2 till i get a better computer (currently i play medieval 2 on a laptop) my only hope is that MP is not so big and complex that by the time i get there ppl have moved on to the next game and not enought are left behind to do even a decent MP game.
Paul Morris
01-05-2011, 05:47
I would like to be positive but with so many prior disappointments ...
I'm not coming out of hibernation just yet ... unless there's some honey involved.
Ibn-Khaldun
01-06-2011, 18:10
So, S2TW have MP campaign and MP battles?
I really hoped that the game have also hotseat feature.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
01-08-2011, 17:15
I would like to be positive but with so many prior disappointments ...
I'm not coming out of hibernation just yet ... unless there's some honey involved.
Will Cashews and Milk work? :laugh:
Veho Nex
01-12-2011, 09:25
http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/113/1137776p1.html
Will have a think about this then post my thoughts.
Not sure if want...
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
01-15-2011, 17:32
I'm just concered about the regular MP and that, not so much about the MPC.
GAH!
Vanya ponders what He read. Vanya wonders how many sleepless nights it would take to enjoy a modicum of success in a WOW-esque evolution of the game.
GAH!
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
02-03-2011, 16:47
Still doing Third person Vanya? :clown: :laugh:
RTKBarrett
02-16-2011, 19:03
My minds boggled with this release theres so much to process im not even sure whats in it theres 1v1 2v2 3v3 4v4 leagues clan leagues a clan type mini campaing coop modes quad damage buildings sharing units in coop mode all this armour choosing banner choosing retainers in MP, hope tehy havent taken on too much. Everything sounds great tho except the quad damage buildings if they have an option to switch off fine.
These are my thoughts as well. Like mentioned in many other forums, multiplayer is a way of testing yourself against a human opponent. When other variables come into play which could limit the balance it hinders the gameplay and experience. The more of these you have, the harder it will be to balance...
Will still try the demo and see how it runs. I am hopeful that it will be good but after 6 months of sc2 and bnet 2.0 im pessimistic
Napoleon The Emperor Of Europe
03-08-2011, 12:10
In my opoion
This is what Multiplayer should be in Shogun 2.
First,you have the battles.
how about 2 vs 2 on a Japanese Castle.
That sounds fun
and what about sea battleS?how about they could a battle,where you have troops and are invading the Takeda clan,meanwhile arnother player is taking the takeda clan on the beach,His Job is to defenbd:furious3:
And this is Set in jAPAN.So I would expect historical accuracy.
Pretty much,they should get rid of the ranking stars ,they introduced in NTW.In ETW you could play with anyone,IN NTW.you cant.
its unfair,mean and bullying,Look at me,I'm 2 stars on NTW,But prevsioulsy I was 4 stars before.Now I'm not the best of players,but so what?they kick you out,becuase you're this and that.seriosuly,Noobs and other people who have been treated like this should rebel!:furious3::furious3::furious3:
I hope in Shogun 2 they dont have that.
And this is Set in jAPAN.So I would expect historical accuracy.
Those battle you mention is not fun at all, maybe for a very minor part of player.
You will need very big maps and it would be a boring fight, you just can do a landbattle and skip the seapart....
Pretty much,they should get rid of the ranking stars ,they introduced in NTW.In ETW you could play with anyone,IN NTW.you cant.
its unfair,mean and bullying,Look at me,I'm 2 stars on NTW,But prevsioulsy I was 4 stars before.Now I'm not the best of players,but so what?they kick you out,becuase you're this and that.seriosuly,Noobs and other people who have been treated like this should rebel!
Well, stars means nothing. I understand you point, the question is, how much fun it is for good player, to roll over new/bad player?
It isnt any fun at all. In S2 we will have rated battles and a Matchmaker, with some luck we see enough player online and you will meet player around you skillvl.
If not it wont really matter, you get better or worser player and people will happily play you, since they get ranked up, gain experience, lvl up...
A ladder will always get new people into games, since other will play them for the ranking.
If this will be fair or fun? I doubt, you will get your arse wooped, by better player and better bonuses.
If you want to gain a proper skillvl in TW, you have to spent a lot of time, the learning-curve isnt really high, it takes much time.
Napoleon The Emperor Of Europe
03-08-2011, 13:23
I've spent playing the total war games for years.I get defeated by Higher players a lot,the one only battle i was in,i lasted a 10 mins.Better players and bounses.so what???they can go to hell for all i care.TW is about having fun ,and playing,its not a place where you can kick players out just because they're this and thar.
Well, stars means nothing. I understand you point, the question is, how much fun it is for good player, to roll over new/bad player?
It isnt any fun at all.
any fun?mate you're a degreaded person.How about the higher player suggesting the new player how to do this and that?
You should be at least thankful when they come to play.Even now,the 5 stars and 4 stars kick 2 or 3 stars out.
I never see that.
SO??????I have a friedn who's 9 star,and we did a sea abttle,amazing my ships and his ships blew up,with he winning:(.But it was a good fight.
Then I had this other batle with a friend,I had 6 cavarly units,and I kept on pushing his army to me,becuase then mY cav would attack from the back,but it went in a different way,the battle started,My Right flank was gaing th eupper bhand,while in the left flank,I wassending troops to hold the line,and they kept retreating,very soon there were only a couple of units left of mine,we broke the enemyes attack,and I think we had 4 units,so My friend fights.Only problem is this:He brings his general in to fight with my old gaurd already engaged in a fight,meanwhile on the other side,mY troops suiccesfuuly rout the enemies troops,except that they keep on fighthing,once the general and his men are done,they charge at my troops and That was that,it was a epic abttle,and one of the most best Battles I've fought in.:book:
There was this other battle 3 vs 3,where I faced the Emperor of France,some guy,he used the british,and he kept on chaging at my right flank so much,he was wasting the troops,very soon,we were left to a couple of units,so I took the attack,and complety demoshlied his forces,he was a 4 star player.Except That I had only 3 units left,And the enmy meanwhile had roouted my allies army..And I did the glorious charge:book:
I aslo fought a 4 star as the austrians,as soon's he losing,he quits!:furious3:
I dont get your point, sorry. You seems young in age, which makes your harsh words a bit more friendly. Still, what exactly you try to say?
I think he's just angry at the world
Napoleon The Emperor Of Europe
03-09-2011, 09:43
I think he's just angry at the world
Yes.I am aslo tried of the bullying that goes on at NTW.:furious3::furious3:
Crandaeolon
03-09-2011, 12:59
I've been reading the forums a bit and trying to figure out if it'd be worthwhile to return to TW with STW2, but I still have no idea (was last active around RTW launch.) But, what the hell. Preordered, see you online next week! ~:wave:
DthB4Dishonor
03-09-2011, 16:20
I've been reading the forums a bit and trying to figure out if it'd be worthwhile to return to TW with STW2, but I still have no idea (was last active around RTW launch.) But, what the hell. Preordered, see you online next week! ~:wave:
Hail Cranda,
I setup a steam account but I don't seem to be able to add friends until I have a game registered. Anyway, hope to see you and some of these other Vets next week. I heard that CA is serving a big plate of Newbies for our welcome back party :) .
I've been reading the forums a bit and trying to figure out if it'd be worthwhile to return to TW with STW2, but I still have no idea (was last active around RTW launch.) But, what the hell. Preordered, see you online next week! ~:wave:
Crandaeolon :) welcome back been many years and to you also Paul:)
I heard that CA is serving a big plate of Newbies for our welcome back party :) .
lol let's just hope that the menu extends to more than just that.
Hey Cran, long time m8... nice to see so many people coming back home!
Swoosh So
03-09-2011, 18:00
Hey Crandaeolon :) Cya in battle next week!
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.