Do you remember Braveheart (aka Tartan Army)?

[dajarvi]

I'm really excited for this new release of Total War. It got me thinking why I got interested in Total War games. I remember:

The first strategy/3d battle game I played was Braveheart (Tartan Army). It was totally cool, but totally clunky. Then someone told me about Medieval Total War (the first one), and so I tried it. It was totally cool, but lacked the campaign map strategy that Braveheart had. Building castles to literally "stop" enemies from roaming around unchecked was cool. The economy determined the weapons and armor your units could have, who you could recruit. That's just a couple of the things. The campaign map of Braveheart is today still the best of turn-based strategy (the 3d battle map totally blew :)

Now the first Medieval Total War didn't have a 3d map like it's predecessors. There was a little strategy involved, but not like Braveheart. It kind of had a simple board game feel. Rome, Medieval 2, and Empire have all had the 3d campaign map, but you know ,once you've eaten the best pasty in town, that pasty sets the bar. Braveheart set the bar on campaign map for Total War-Like games (though it was choppy), and I'm really excited to see if Shogun 2 adds some strategic campaign map war/economy plotting depth.

This isn't a criticism, but a desire. I feel like I'm an old gamer now, though I'm not that old. Braveheart was cool in '99. So was Medieval. I think it would be cool if Total War built a new campaign engine focusing on campaign map strategic depth like Braveheart tried to do. Whatever happens, I'm content. You just gotta be :)

[gollum]

Yes, well, RTW and M2TW also have a 3D map with more "depth". TW has been going that way since 2004 - its kinda old news for it now. If you like games that have more things to do on the strategy map try M2TW and you won't be dissapointed.

[gaelic cowboy]

Yes I do it remember that one it came out the same time but Shogun was clearly the better game. I seem to remember there was some kind of gimmick for each faction almost like magic or something cant remember what it was now though.

[dajarvi]

@ gollum: I still play RTW and M2TW with the Europa Barbarorum and Stainless Steel mods. The battle maps are super fun, but the logistics on the campaign map, due to the engine, still are quite shallow. Even with the mods, which add a lot to the base game, military and economic logistics are still too simplified. But fun, nevertheless.

@gaelic cowboy: Yeah I don't remember any magic in the game, but I do remember that the quality of your generals played a huge role in campaign development. The RPG aspect of the game was pretty cool. I never played the original Shogun....I played the board game actually. I do believe the game was based off of the board game.

[gollum]

Rigth, you are a grand strategy fan then, and would wish for a really deep campaign. Perhaps STW2 would be that game, perhaps not. Let's see :)

[dajarvi]

Rigth, you are a grand strategy fan then, and would wish for a really deep campaign. Perhaps STW2 would be that game, perhaps not. Let's see :)

:) I do like to think. Too much chess, I guess! But you're right, we'll see. Games are kind of like looking for that perfect coffee shop, except there is no perfect coffee shop. As a writer, a perfect atmosphere is important, but I've yet to find a coffee shop that provides one. Alas, it is best to be content with what we're given...within reason of course!!!

[gollum]

Well, yes, TW is certainly no chess on the campaign but it can be chess on the battlefield if properly balanced. There isn't anything like the morale system of TW battles and that can make for some very intricate play. Even the campaign can be fun if you play the multiplayer camp - a rival player commanding all the enemy armies you fight and a rival faction. Hopefully that will make a return in STW2.

If you are looking for perfect cofee shop, you will inevitably end up concluding that there is no perfect coffee shop. That's because conditions are something a good writer has to work with, not against.

Writers often tend to be giving too much importance to their own emotions and through that end up attributing emotions to things they don't have such, like the weather and coffe shops.

[dajarvi]

.

If you are looking for perfect cofee shop, you will inevitably end up concluding that there is no perfect coffee shop. That's because conditions are something a good writer has to work with, not against.

Hence, be content with what we're given.

Writers often tend to be giving too much importance to their own emotions and through that end up attributing emotions to things they don't have such, like the weather and coffe shops.

Emotion is crucial to writing something poetic or good, unless you're writing a technical piece. In that case it doesn't matter too much. When I speak of emotion, in my mind, I'm thinking of being in the "mood" to write. A lot of times I'll write out of sheer discipline, but I'll return to a previous work when the mood hits :) To bring this back to Shogun, more logistics and long-term planning on the campaign map, including army movement, construction of fortifications, use of supply wagons, and more emphasis on RPG for Generals, are just some ideas to keep a gamer involved. Prior to Empire, mods have tried to achive this, but could only go so far due engine limitations. And I do agree, playing against a human opponent is much cooler than A.I., but more depth, like chess or Hammer of the Scots, would really be cool too.

Gollum, thanks for your conversations. It was good chatting! Perhaps we'll find each other on the Shogun 2 battlefield!!

[gollum]

If you put too much emotion/mood in poetry it becomes surprisingly mediocre.

I can't find where i said the "Hence, be content with what we're given." bit that you quoted. Is it from someone else?

Yes, the suggestions you make about the camp map are good no doubt and in fact i've seen them asked/suggested for the last 6 years or so now - especially logistics. It seems that STW2 is deeper in the camp map - the political aspect especially; marriages, agents, alliances etc. Characters seems central and "customisable" as the camp progresses, if one is to believe the trailers, but you never know if what the trailers say plays as they say it :)

Thank you as well for the chat - yes, perhaps we'll meet there :)

:bow:

[dajarvi]

"Hence" was something I said. I wrote it in the quote, thinking my text would be separate, but it didn't work as expected :)

[gollum]

I see, no worries :)