Short hands-on with Shogun 2 at RockPaperShotgun

[foop]

Jim Rossignol has a short hands-on Shogun 2 piece at Rock Paper Shotgun.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/02/10/hands-on-with-total-war-shogun-2/

Some interesting details and quite a few screenshots.

[pevergreen]

Good to look at, but still, nothing can be completely trusted apart from players reviews with the finished product.

This guy definately didn't praise it thoughtlessly though.

[Barkhorn1x]

This guy definately didn't praise it thoughtlessly though.

Seemed like a fair, non-hyped description to me.

[antisocialmunky]

[Battle AI] Not obviously worse, anyway.


THERE IS HOPE HERE.

[pevergreen]

THERE IS HOPE HERE.

:laugh4:

I love that we get excited over the fact that it isnt worse.

[Nelson]

Battles seem "relatively fast paced" and his Sekigahara was "rocket-fueled", says the reviewer.

"Fast paced" and "rocket-fueled" are not the adjectives I was looking for but the demo may not be all that representative of actual campaign action. One battle is hardly enough to judge. I certainly don't want all battles to be fast paced and rocket-fueled.

[Barkhorn1x]

...but the demo may not be all that representative of actual...action. One battle is hardly enough to judge.

That's what I told myself when RTW came out and MTW2 and ETW.

Let's face it. The demo code is basically the final code and the modders - once again - will have to tone sh!t down to take it out of FPS kiddie land.

Oh, and I missed this on my first read thru:


I am not sure what it is about sieges and Total War, but they just cannot run smoothly. While I did manage to burn down the gates on my second or third try, there was nevertheless the now-familiar jiggling of bodies under heavy missile fire before it really worked out.

Indication of pathing issues? It appears so. Sigh.


Overly pessimistic? Perhaps. But I am getting the feeling that once again dear reader YOU are the Beta Tester.

[antisocialmunky]

I think he's talking about getting shot to death by archers on walls after it taking 3 rolls to sabotage the gate.

[Intrepid Sidekick]

Hi Guys

I think the reviewer might be refering to the fact that the AI doesnt just sit back and let you fulfill your plans without a challenge. We havent boosted the movement speeds and combat speeds.:no:
The result is that the game can feel quick because the AI isnt letting you take your time.

Jamie

[Intrepid Sidekick]

That's what I told myself when RTW came out and MTW2 and ETW.

Let's face it. The demo code is basically the final code and the modders - once again - will have to tone sh!t down to take it out of FPS kiddie land.

Oh, and I missed this on my first read thru:



Indication of pathing issues? It appears so. Sigh.


Overly pessimistic? Perhaps. But I am getting the feeling that once again dear reader YOU are the Beta Tester.

The Preview hands on version of the game, journalists are playing, is not the final code. Game balance and code tweaks are still occuring. There are beta testers who are members of the Total War community testing the MP version of the battles as we speak.

[pevergreen]

There are beta testers who are members of the Total War community testing the MP version of the battles as we speak.

Lets hope CA isn't one of the companies that runs betas and then doesn't balance the game after putting all the effort in.

[Kocmoc]

Lets hope CA isn't one of the companies that runs betas and then doesn't balance the game after putting all the effort in.


Alone the fact, that player from the community are involved (that happen the last time back in 2001 for MI) is already a huge step in the right direction.

[Kagemusha]

Alone the fact, that player from the community are involved (that happen the last time back in 2001 for MI) is already a huge step in the right direction.

Agreed completely.:yes:

[Barkhorn1x]

The Preview hands on version of the game, journalists are playing, is not the final code. Game balance and code tweaks are still occuring. There are beta testers who are members of the Total War community testing the MP version of the battles as we speak.

Well, this is good news. And believe me I want TWS2 to be great. But in the case of the AI you must admit that - in the past - promises were made and not really acheived. So I am like a guy from Missouri here; don't tell me how great it will be, SHOW me.

Finally, as another poster pointed out in some thread or other; it is getting to be very annoying reading yet another preview/mini-review that gushes about how great the graphics are. Yea, I get that, CA does great graphics. But graphics do not by themselves keep a game on my HD. We need a a Diplomacy AI and Strat AI that makes intelligent moves and does not do bizarre things. We need a TacAI that can manage units on a battlefield holistically and effectivly and not commit units piecemeal. We need sieges that work well without pathing issues.

Perhaps all of that is in there now and CA is tweaking and polishing minor pieces. If that is indeed the case you would never know it from the previews/reviews I've seen to date.

[DthB4Dishonor]

Agree with Kocmoc that CA having community members as testers is encouraging. What makes me optimistic (perhaps naively) is that for the first time that I can remember MP is getting a big portion of the attention. The Multiplayer Campaign and the progression of Generals traits leads me to believe that MP isn't a distant 2nd or 3rd priority as it has been in the past.

I dare to dream.

[TosaInu]

Alone the fact, that player from the community are involved (that happen the last time back in 2001 for MI) is already a huge step in the right direction.

There was community involvement after STW MI in 2001 as well Kocmoc.


I'm not quite sure what's going on with the unitspeed since RTW. At times I say: come on! Move! At other times units are dazzling fast. Maybe it's the slow response of my units and seemingly (?) responsive and fast enemy units.

[Kocmoc]

There was community involvement after STW MI in 2001 as well Kocmoc.


I'm not quite sure what's going on with the unitspeed since RTW. At times I say: come on! Move! At other times units are dazzling fast. Maybe it's the slow response of my units and seemingly (?) responsive and fast enemy units.

Well, im almost surre, that the community was only once involved in betatesting.
Anyway, Units sometimes Spread like hell, its about the flagcarrier, who causen "jumps", if hes dieing.

[Lemur]

There are beta testers who are members of the Total War community testing the MP version of the battles as we speak.
Hey man, thanks for involving the community. Only good things will come of that decision.

[Intrepid Sidekick]

Well, this is good news. And believe me I want TWS2 to be great. But in the case of the AI you must admit that - in the past - promises were made and not really acheived. So I am like a guy from Missouri here; don't tell me how great it will be, SHOW me.

Finally, as another poster pointed out in some thread or other; it is getting to be very annoying reading yet another preview/mini-review that gushes about how great the graphics are. Yea, I get that, CA does great graphics. But graphics do not by themselves keep a game on my HD. We need a a Diplomacy AI and Strat AI that makes intelligent moves and does not do bizarre things. We need a TacAI that can manage units on a battlefield holistically and effectivly and not commit units piecemeal. We need sieges that work well without pathing issues.

Perhaps all of that is in there now and CA is tweaking and polishing minor pieces. If that is indeed the case you would never know it from the previews/reviews I've seen to date.

Of course I can talk until I am blue in the face about improvements, but as you say the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.
We think we have put a lot of good work in to making sure the game is an enjoyable experience that doesn't cause the frustrations you may have experienced previously.
I'd like you to buy the game on release, because it is good fun to play, but if you want to wait for others to report back before buying that is an option.
Showing you it's a great game with or without images is hard. As has been shown by the reception by some of the battle reports. Some folks will only see the bad or be suspect of the way the evidence was produced.
We have run community events in the US and elsewhere for fans to come along and play the game. Those are a means of us showing the community what we have done. I am going to one in Europe in the near future that is being announced at some point soon.

Thanks for your continued interest and feedback

Jamie

[Barkhorn1x]

Thanks for your continued interest and feedback

Jamie

Thank you for coming here to post and share your views. One thing is for sure at this point; I will be d/l'ing the demo next week.

[andrewt]

I'm not sure why CA keeps on promising better siege battles in every game in the series. I think a better approach would be to change the game rules to have more open field battles and less siege battles. Personally, I will always prefer and enjoy open field battles compared to siege battles no matter how much improvement sieges get. Not to mention most of the most memorable historically important battles were open field battles, not siege battles.

Siege battles will always be harder to implement and code AI for. I'm not saying ignore it because it's a part of the game but something tells me that spending more time trying to change the ratio of open field to siege battles is a better use of resources.

[TosaInu]

Well, im almost surre, that the community was only once involved in betatesting.

More than once, there are credits in a readme for MTW for example.


Anyway, Units sometimes Spread like hell, its about the flagcarrier, who causen "jumps", if hes dieing.

The flag carrier is indeed doing that, but you can also see it in mobs of units without any man dieing (for example when crossing a bridge). It's not that I was thinking about though; maybe it has to do with the delay in orders that create a feeling of my units being slow, while the enemy is fast.

[antisocialmunky]

You guys really need a lethality tweak option for combat if it is not linked to difficulty, not everyone wants fast combat. In fact, I would wager that most mods for previous TWs slow down the combat. :-\

[knoddy]

TBH it sounds like he was overconfident and under prepared going into the seige battle and got pwned, then blamed it on broken seiges. u gotta expect to take high losses attacking a castle wall.

Also i think the faster paced battle sounds good. Hopefully this means the AI is more aggressive and responsive and doesnt sit back and wait for you. If thats not the case and the battles are faster but the AI is the same then it would be bad.

Guess we just have to wait and see :)