View Full Version : Demo out on 22 February 2011
Monsieur Alphonse
02-15-2011, 17:09
Link http://www.totalwar.com/news/4897
:laugh4:
Barkhorn1x
02-15-2011, 20:44
Link http://www.totalwar.com/news/4897
:laugh4:
Well, well. We shall see what we will see.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
02-15-2011, 21:08
Intertsing. :balloon2:
pevergreen
02-16-2011, 08:25
Let me tell you, I'm about ready to make a little voodoo doll of CA and rip its head off.
Phog_of_War
02-16-2011, 08:48
pever.....why the hostility??
pevergreen
02-16-2011, 08:54
pever.....why the hostility??
Not in the mood to explain it.
But a demo is good news, especially a pre-release one.
Ituralde
02-16-2011, 10:03
Looking forward to it! Skipped Napoleon but eager to get back into things with Shogun 2!
Cheers!
Ituralde
johnhughthom
02-16-2011, 17:59
pever.....why the hostility??
I'm guessing Steam.
pevergreen
02-16-2011, 21:22
I'm guessing Steam.
Nope, I love steam, one of the staunch defenders of it.
The Spartan (Returns)
02-17-2011, 00:15
Nope, I love steam, one of the staunch defenders of it.So am I.
It's that time of season again... :)
Gregoshi
02-17-2011, 02:38
Let me tell you, I'm about ready to make a little voodoo doll of CA and rip its head off.
How about a little hint as to what in the world has you going all voodoo on CA? :inquisitive:
Now hopefully my PC can handle the demo. :clown:
Dead Guy
02-17-2011, 11:21
It seems every article I read on the STW2 site features the line:
"by perfecting the features from previous games such as full 3D land and naval battles and a detailed campaign map"
Not exactly what I was hoping for. If the thing you're most proud of about your upcoming strategy game is that it features full 3D (OMG!!!) land battles, something is very, very wrong.
Still, yay demo!
Also, hi .org, it's been a while.
Kagemusha
02-17-2011, 14:21
Im rather exited about the demo.Cant wait to try it out. Also wellcome back Dead Guy!:bow:
al Roumi
02-17-2011, 14:57
Is pever's (surprising) animosity to CA due to a staggered launch or availability of Shogun2? i.e. like Mass effect 2 (i think). That would certainly tick me off.
johnhughthom
02-17-2011, 21:04
Perhaps Australia isn't getting some of the special editions.
Barkhorn1x
02-21-2011, 22:58
***BUMP***
Demo available in about 2 hours based on GMT? That's the speculation.
There go any plans for sleep tonight.
I'm so excited! :D I am going to download it as soon as I can!
Barkhorn1x
02-22-2011, 01:58
But the other speculation is that the game will be released when the Steam offices open in Seattle WA at 9:00am PST tomorrow.
Well. I am on the Steam site now and no demo.
Looks like no demo tonight. I will now cry like a brokenhearted schoolgirl and suck my thumb as I fall asleep.
pevergreen
02-22-2011, 08:29
Its only the afternoon of the 22nd here, why would you get it on the 21st?
Revolting Friendship
02-22-2011, 10:16
Yeah, it's most likely 5pm GMT today (the 22nd). Soo, in about 6 hours or so, + DL and installation, we will get a first peek at this baby.
pevergreen
02-22-2011, 11:19
Yeah, it's most likely 5pm GMT today (the 22nd). Soo, in about 6 hours or so, + DL and installation, we will get a first peek at this baby.
Yup, sounds right. CA confirmed on their twitter.
hmm to wait up or not that is the question
Vlad The Impaler
02-22-2011, 14:31
Well I think I will be able to play just tomorrow, I don't see how thousands of players will be able to download the demo in the same time
pevergreen
02-22-2011, 14:34
Well I think I will be able to play just tomorrow, I don't see how thousands of players will be able to download the demo in the same time
I'm kind of glad I won't even start downloading it until about 15 hours after its released due to work.
Barkhorn1x
02-22-2011, 15:17
Yup, sounds right. CA confirmed on their twitter.
Yup. Wish they would have done that yesterday to kill all the speculation.
About 2 hours 45 minutes to go.
Barkhorn1x
02-22-2011, 15:18
Well I think I will be able to play just tomorrow, I don't see how thousands of players will be able to download the demo in the same time
Not too worried about that - as I was browsing Steam yesterday the status page showed 2.3 MILLION users logged on. Methinks they have quite a bit of server capacity.
pevergreen
02-22-2011, 15:24
Not too worried about that - as I was browsing Steam yesterday the status page showed 2.3 MILLION users logged on. Methinks they have quite a bit of server capacity.
Yeah, but its always terrible when a big name title is getting downloaded at release. Especially when there is no pre-loading.
E:TW release was a nightmare.
Barkhorn1x
02-22-2011, 16:00
E:TW release was a nightmare.
Yes, I do remember that being the case and I will NEVER purchase an on-line version again. SOOO much easier to buy the discs, load 'em up and activate on Steam.
Well, we will see how big the rush is in 2 hours.
Vlad The Impaler
02-22-2011, 16:32
Yes, I do remember that being the case and I will NEVER purchase an on-line version again. SOOO much easier to buy the discs, load 'em up and activate on Steam.
Not to mention that you can always download them from Steam if you don't want to use the discs so buying discs has to sources of the game;)
Demo should be out about now, does not appear to be. Also, the main Total War page appears to be down.
503 Service Unavailable
No server is available to handle this request.
so I think it is online now^^
Barkhorn1x
02-22-2011, 18:12
Info. on the demo.
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/8159-Total-War-Shogun-2-Demo-details
My bad, I was watching the "demo" page on Steam. It's available from the Shogun 2 page instead. I expect they'll list it on the demo page eventually.
Could someone please be so kind to give me a direct download link? I can't reach totalwar.com :(
Monsieur Alphonse
02-22-2011, 18:20
You have to download from Steam. It is on the Shogun 2 page. Just click on the grey button: download the demo.
Barkhorn1x
02-22-2011, 18:23
Downloading now!
Here are the details (http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/8159-Total-War-Shogun-2-Demo-details):
Hi Everyone,
As all of you on this forum know there is a demo of Total War: Shogun 2 being released today. It’s quite unlike any demo we have released previously. This demo will be giving a snippet of campaign gameplay. It's a big piece, but a snippet none-the-less. Its great fun and the testers have certainly been enjoying it.
Rather than using, as we usually do, just one historical battle and a single tutorial battle, we're basing this demo on the campaign and battle tutorials. The campaign tutorial handholds the player through the first few turns of a campaign game, serves up three tutorial battles of increasing complexity, and then lets go of the player's hand, leaving them free to explore a mini-campaign.
To cut the size of the download down to something even remotely acceptable for a demo, we have had to make all battles, apart from the three tutorial battles and one big historical battle, auto-resolved battles. We did this because the data files involved in creating the battlefields are very large. The demo version of the game for example is approximately 5GB while the full version of the game is approximately 15GB.
For this reason players won't really get the full on Total War experience, but we hope it gives a much better impression of what the game is about than a single stand-alone battle does. For those of you looking to test drive the battles a little, we’ve included the historical battle of Sekigahara, so you can get a feel for the type of warfare Shogun 2 offers. The full game obviously offers a huge amount more.
That’s ultimately the point. This is just a taster of the final game; in every aspect what you’re seeing is the smallest example, so we’d urge you to keep that in mind as you play.
As many of you know for those of you that wanted to get a fuller, hands on, experience of the game we’ve been running community events worldwide.
There is an event going on in the US today that members of all the forum communities were invited to: http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...-Get-Involved! . And this one for an upcoming UK event at CA: http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...ty-event-at-CA. We are also looking at other events for other countries.
So as you can see we are doing our very best to explore as many means as possible to give people an idea of the depth and quality of Total War: Shogun 2, the demo is just a tiny piece, experience it as that.
Thank you for your time and enjoy the demo (http://store.steampowered.com/app/34330/)!
The Total War Development Team
found it on Steam, thanks!
NagaoKagetora
02-22-2011, 18:30
W00t currently at 15% completed. Not to shabby for 5 mins of dl time given the size of the demo.
Demo is now listed on the Steam demo page (http://store.steampowered.com/freestuff/demos/) as well.
Peasant Phill
02-22-2011, 18:43
Downloading it as we speak.
Cecil XIX
02-22-2011, 18:46
Campaign tutorial campaign tutorial why am i stuck in class harglebarglyapdojasdfawepopzucip.
Kagemusha
02-22-2011, 18:50
Downloading.:2thumbsup:
ByzantineKnight
02-22-2011, 19:08
"4,500 Mb of 5,950 Mb. 15 min remaining!"
I can't wait!!
Kagemusha
02-22-2011, 19:09
I still have to wait more then an hour.Cant wait to start reading the first impressions, nevermind trying it myself.
EDIT: Download finished installing.
Barkhorn1x
02-22-2011, 19:50
Less than 1 Gig to go but bit rate slowing down over the past 1/2 hour.
Cecil XIX
02-22-2011, 19:56
After the opening cinema, there's a small movie built into the main menu. It's running at 4 fps on my computer. Also, settings default to 'Classic Total War Camera'. I don't know if this is a change from Napoleon, but I could swear that wasn't always the case. Finally: There's an encyclopedia! I'll check it out before I start playing.
Kagemusha
02-22-2011, 20:01
Ok.I am playing. I will post updates and pics here as i try the demo.Here is the mainmenu:
https://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1019/mainmenum.jpg
Here is the map with playable clans in the full campaign from the encyclopedia:
https://img813.imageshack.us/img813/1122/clansstw.jpg
Starting screen of the historical battle of Sekigahara:
https://img806.imageshack.us/img806/2821/sekigahara.jpg
Going to try the battle next...
Wretched Kobayakawa! Like in history our western army got backstabbed in the heat of the battle.A pic from the slaughter from my headquarters area:
https://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9016/slaughteratmitsunaris.jpg
On other location of the battlefield i still was able to push the Tokugawa on the run.Interesting feature here is that there are wounded enemies who definetely are not fighting anymore:
https://img502.imageshack.us/img502/7217/wounded.jpg
Oh,no you are not taking my position you scum!
https://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3145/humanwreckage.jpg
With the remnants of my army im moving to the open with the Shimazu as when you cant flee all you can do is to attack!
https://img443.imageshack.us/img443/917/endcoming.jpg
And the end in the hands of Kobayakawa traitors. See the nice gravestone appeared on the generals portrait.:
https://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1033/enddz.jpg
I have to install Steam to DL. Is there a non-Steam version? If not, then I will wait. I will probably buy the game anyway, with or without playing the demo. Just hope that the retail box won't need Steam.
Is there a non-Steam version?
No.
Just hope that the retail box won't need Steam.
It will. And I, for one, welcome our new Valve overlords. Every TW title since Empire has required Steam. Surely this is not news?
Managed to play a little bit of the campaign. I'll wait for some non-work time when I can really concentrate before giving impressions.
From the screenshots, the Battle Replay button seems to be active in the demo. If this is true, I have a question to those who already have the demo: can we now rewind during a replay or is it like in NTW, that the replays only run forward with no chance of rewinding and looking at crucial moments several times from different angles ?
Cecil XIX
02-22-2011, 21:05
The encyclopedia is huge, and fully-functioning. You can access it at any time, even during battle. It also functions as an in-game manual. If anyone has any questions about the game feel free to ask, I or someone else with the demo can probably find an answer.
It will. And I, for one, welcome our new Valve overlords. Every TW title since Empire has required Steam. Surely this is not news?
For multiplayer, I guess. That's suck a bit for me. My company provided laptop can run STW2, but Steam will surely be blocked by the security software. I really don't want to carry 2 laptops every where I go.
By the way, I don't have any TW games that come after Kingdoms. Don't have the XPack for Rome either (but I have 2 copies of Rome, which I played the least).
Just started downloading this after some server work: 760 kbs. :jumping: it has the campaign in the demo ~:)
Kagemusha
02-22-2011, 21:28
Quick few impressions. Love the artwork and music.There are even music from the original STW in the game. The atmosphere is great.Tomorrow after some playing i can say more about other things.
Cecil XIX
02-22-2011, 22:21
I had a nasty moment in the second tutorial battle when the enemy army charged my position before I was in formation, perhaps because I had let my cavalry get too far forward chasing some routers (The Tutorial placed a few units way ahead of the main army for educational purposes). I was actually pretty worried for a moment, but I think I had more soldiers (tutorial battles exist independently of what you have in the campaign, so it's harder to tell) and I was able to get my soldiers around there's and flank them. Good thing too, if I hadn't gotten my Daimyo there in time, their cavalry might have routed mine and turned my left flank. Pretty encouraging!
EDIT: Also, apparently all cavalry function like Dragoons have previously and can mount/dismount at any time. Nice to know that feature is here to stay, you'd think they would have added that in Rome since they were half-way there in Medieval I!
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
02-22-2011, 22:33
Remind me a lot of NTW. :laugh:.
Vlad The Impaler
02-22-2011, 22:37
I started the download just now (got late home, some idiot let himself arrested and I have to visit him)
If I am shutting down steam, tomorrow it will resume or I have to let the PC downloading all night long?
Gregoshi
02-22-2011, 23:28
I've messed around a bit with the campaign tutorial, but have yet to try a battle. The atmosphere and music are great as Kage mentioned. So far, the campaign map is very channeling. I am hoping this still allows for a variety of battle terrain (woods, hills, etc), but the demo will not help determining that.
So far, I like what I've seen. :2thumbsup:
BTW, this is a great demo by adding a mini campaign rather than just a battle or two. Nice work CA. ~:pat:
antisocialmunky
02-22-2011, 23:40
It looks like they finally have a Total War that seems polished. The Encyclopedia is very Civesque. Hopefully htis game will be the Civ4 of the franchise rather than the Civ5.
Cecil XIX
02-22-2011, 23:46
I lost the final battle tutorial. My coordination was all wrong, and the enemy ended up slaughtering my units piecemeal as they attempted to storm the castle. I hope the AI does as well in other battles.
Any idea if the battle AI is scripted for the tutorial?
Vlad The Impaler
02-23-2011, 00:54
well seems their servers are great, I downloaded the demo in 20 minutes or so.
first impression is that the game is moving great. although I have a great PC I always had a sense of fragility playing Empire (and a CTD that I never explained although I put all IT from my workplace team to seek the cause because at some point I suspected my PC) so I hope that the game will be the same. if will be easy modable it will be even better.
the game is moving great and that fog of war with old shoggy map looks nice.
quadalpha
02-23-2011, 00:56
I think at least part of the tutorial AI has to be scripted. They wouldn't hang out their archers/gunpowder out to dry like in the second tutorial battle.
Also, don't besiege the second province you take. It'll try to do strange things with tutorial battle, and afterwards you'd get stuck if you tried to assault.
Alexander the Pretty Good
02-23-2011, 00:59
Downloading now, next to the Dragon Age 2 demo. It's gonna take me days lol
Not even sure why I'm bothering though, with the campaign restricted to autoresolve. CA is going to keep the real AI under wraps...
Cecil XIX
02-23-2011, 01:45
Any idea if the battle AI is scripted for the tutorial?
According to a mod on the official site the AI "is not technically 'on.'" (http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/8155-Demo-Feedback-general?p=103935&viewfull=1#post103935) I would say your suspicion is warranted, Alexander. It sure does look like they're hiding something...
well off to a good start. froze at the spalsh screen so i restarted now my steam is trying to update my demo :S
edit: can any1 confirm if theres an update for hte demo i cant really afford to download it again cos of some stupid steam issue ill go over my limit
I had some fun recording from the demo and found this, lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsP5zJ1FCSg&feature=player_embedded
Nice demo, it's smoother than the NTW one.
DthB4Dishonor
02-23-2011, 02:58
Kagemusha thanks a LOT for that review and the screen shots. I have to live vicariously through you and others until my new PC gets delivered.
DthB4Dishonor
02-23-2011, 03:00
I had some fun recording from the demo and found this, lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsP5zJ1FCSg&feature=player_embedded
Hahaha, that is hilarious. Tough little guy. That is a really impressive little detail and makes me ever hopeful that the game will be epic.
antisocialmunky
02-23-2011, 03:32
That castle siege is actually somewhat hard.
Some of the pathing issues from ETW are still there like units turning sideways to shoot at walls. Mostly everything works as expect, smooth, and quite fun. :)
Doesn't seem to require any extra oom from the hardware compared to NTW. But then again, the armies aren't that big. Definitely like the new mechanics. It feels quite a lot more polished like NTW. Basically like NTW with swords.
Can't really talk about the AI other than that its not MIITW completely retarded for the most part.
Hunter KIng George
02-23-2011, 05:25
Very impressed with the demo...runs smoothly, looks terrific, I think they are finally on to somethig great in the making.
Wow...
PanzerJaeger
02-23-2011, 06:56
Can anything be deduced about the pacing and battle mechanics from the demo? Do you think the gameplay will yield rewarding multiplayer battles?
xploring
02-23-2011, 08:04
Read comments over at official forum saying units often rout within 30 seconds when unevenly matched (e.g. katana vs spear) and battle felt rushed. I haven't got a good enough computer to play yet, hopefully it's not like how some described, I am pretty clumsy with maneuvering units.
PanzerJaeger
02-23-2011, 09:09
Just played the demo. I first played the historical battle and then played through the campaign. To be more precise, I played through the part that worked. It hung up on the "defend your trade route" command and never let me progress further. I was so wholly disinterested that I didn't bother playing through again.
It's all just so much lipstick on a pig of a battle engine. Insta-routing, poor pacing, super speeds, and unit reaction issues are all back with a vengeance and they've added some new head scratchers as well. (Why are my non-routing cavalry all running in opposite directions?) And as usual in the newer titles, don't bother zooming in to watch the cool animations they worked so hard on, as the battle will be decided before you have a chance to zoom back out. Arcade-ish would be a compliment.
What is really frustrating is that you can tell how much work they put into the details. The armor, animations, landscapes, and a hundred other aspects of the game are brilliant, but they fail to all come together to create an overall enjoyable experience. What is the point of all the special abilities and formations if the battle progresses so fast that you cannot make use of them? Why even bother to incorporate an exhaustion system, when it is practically meaningless to the game? (Changing the default from walk to run is indicative of the role exhaustion now plays in the engine.)
Yes it is far more polished and has a nifty dictionary, but the battles themselves are just awful - much worse than Empire and a far cry from the original.
I'm sure they will sell millions of copies, but if this is a representation of the game play we can anticipate, they won't be selling one to me. :shame:
pevergreen
02-23-2011, 09:31
Yes it is far more polished and has a nifty dictionary, but the battles themselves are just awful - much worse than Empire and a far cry from the original.
+1
Over way too fast
(Why are my non-routing cavalry all running in opposite directions?)
if u take a closer look you will find that are ridderless horses obviously a new and quite nice addition. riders were often unhorsed and killed while the horses were still alive. I would love to see if cavalry units can be dismounted in battle but not die and fight on foot. would be quite cool hehe.
ALso i saw no instant routing. every battle ive fought so far units fight for quite a while b4 routing. the only units i saw rout quite quickly was when i charged my cav at some archers. they got mown down quite fast.
From the screenshots, the Battle Replay button seems to be active in the demo. If this is true, I have a question to those who already have the demo: can we now rewind during a replay or is it like in NTW, that the replays only run forward with no chance of rewinding and looking at crucial moments several times from different angles ?
Seems my question from yesterday got lost in all those posts, so I am just quoting it here again.
Has anyone tried to rewind their replays yet ?
I've seen the replay buttons, but haven't watched any: was a bit rushed at 1:30 am.
Mounted units can dismount in open battle, but haven't done so yet. This demo feels faster than NTW on the same hardware.
Mounted units can dismount in open battle, but haven't done so yet. This demo feels faster than NTW on the same hardware.
Not what he was refering too. if you fight a battle watch your cavalry, zoom in, i watched it not 10 minutes ago in the seige battle, and in the historical battle, men get killed in the melee and the horses run wild, but they are still part of the group and so it looks quite odd, but next time u wonder why ur cav is running round like mad check bet they are riderless horses, nice touch imo just make them not part of your group of cav once dismounted.
Kagemusha
02-23-2011, 13:27
Taking a better look at the campaign tutorial "Chosokabe" now.
Here is the campaign map.As you can see the fog of war is created bit like the old STW map:
https://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8480/choso1.jpg
There is some basic movement,camera rotation etc. Next we go to unit recruitment panel:
https://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8249/choso2.jpg
Kagemusha
02-23-2011, 13:37
Taking a better look at the campaign tutorial "Chosokabe" now.
Here is the campaign map.As you can see the fog of war is created bit like the old STW map:
https://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8480/choso1.jpg
There is some basic movement,camera rotation etc. Next we go to unit recruitment panel:
https://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8249/choso2.jpg
next turn the tutorial makes me build a archery dojo, thus enabling me to build samurai archers.Here is the building panel:
https://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3876/choso3.jpg
Revolting Friendship
02-23-2011, 13:39
Yeah, battles are faster than lightspeed, yari ashigaru does indeed pull out their swords for melee and the horses are rediculously huge.
Slow down the battles, de-emphasise this retarded rock, paper, siccors-gameplay, let the yari ashigaru fight with their spears and make the horses smaller and I'll be very happy about this game.
As for the rest; the music, the graphical quality in both campaign and battles, the style and atmosphere, the campaign layout; all very very well done. A big step ahead from what I can see, and while the CAI seemed a bit passive, it didn't perform badly and I suspect it was also limited by the confines of the demo campaign.
Kagemusha
02-23-2011, 14:00
Yeah, battles are faster than lightspeed, yari ashigaru does indeed pull out their swords for melee and the horses are rediculously huge.
Slow down the battles, de-emphasise this retarded rock, paper, siccors-gameplay, let the yari ashigaru fight with their spears and make the horses smaller and I'll be very happy about this game.
As for the rest; the music, the graphical quality in both campaign and battles, the style and atmosphere, the campaign layout; all very very well done. A big step ahead from what I can see, and while the CAI seemed a bit passive, it didn't perform badly and I suspect it was also limited by the confines of the demo campaign.
So maybe there is need for little tweaking old friend?:wiseguy:
antisocialmunky
02-23-2011, 14:48
Yeah, the kill rates are a little ridiculous. I fear it may not be feasible to change it so late in the game. Don't know how this will effect the AI or the tech tree so I think we're going to have to live with it. Likewise, the tech tree may do a bit to help the combat situation. Also, I think you had much better troops to win the first tutorial battle so that probably skews the experience.
Also, I think the unit sizes are on large instead of ultra by default so I question whether or not it will slow down once units get bigger and you go for deeper formations. I also think that the Katana samurai need to be harder to recruit. That's one of the things about the old STW. You mostly had spear vs spear with the odd No Dachi or to carve them up so the RPS wasn't so obvious.
I think it is okay. I've had samurai units hold on for quite a long time in the castle siege. The ashigaru routed in about 3 minutes after being mobbed by a horde or archers, and the katana samurai lasted a good 10 minutes or so.
Jochi Khan
02-23-2011, 16:05
Seems my question from yesterday got lost in all those posts, so I am just quoting it here again.
Has anyone tried to rewind their replays yet ?
Battle replay buttons....
Pause..Play..Forward..Fast Forward.
NagaoKagetora
02-23-2011, 18:16
It's all just so much lipstick on a pig of a battle engine. Insta-routing, poor pacing, super speeds, and unit reaction issues are all back with a vengeance and they've added some new head scratchers as well. (Why are my non-routing cavalry all running in opposite directions?) And as usual in the newer titles, don't bother zooming in to watch the cool animations they worked so hard on, as the battle will be decided before you have a chance to zoom back out. Arcade-ish would be a compliment.
What is really frustrating is that you can tell how much work they put into the details. The armor, animations, landscapes, and a hundred other aspects of the game are brilliant, but they fail to all come together to create an overall enjoyable experience. What is the point of all the special abilities and formations if the battle progresses so fast that you cannot make use of them? Why even bother to incorporate an exhaustion system, when it is practically meaningless to the game? (Changing the default from walk to run is indicative of the role exhaustion now plays in the engine.)
After playing the demo this pretty much nails it for me.
Battle replay buttons....
Pause..Play..Forward..Fast Forward.
Thanks for checking this out, Jochi, and bringing us the not-so-wellcome news :(
I would have thought it is obvious that players who want to learn the game and work on optimizing their strategy want to use the replays to go over cruical scenes again and again from different sides and agles. This was easily done with the slider bar we had in Shogun 1 and Medieval 1.
Well, I guess someone tried to be economical and wanted to use the same interface buttons for the actual battle and the replays. And of course there is no need for a rewind button in the actual battle, so it was lost for the replays. And then we just did not complain enough about it during NTW so they did not realize they were loosing one of the nicer features of the game.
I hope we can still manage to get this added to their To Do List if not for the release then at least for the patch/update.
Kagemusha
02-23-2011, 18:54
Not the day of enemy Nobori bearer::no:
https://img576.imageshack.us/img576/1826/choso4.jpg
From my tutorial campaign.The poor enemy fellow got it trough the side of the head, cheek and shoulder, ouch!Even the bushi behind him seems puzzled about the shot.
Just played the demo. I first played the historical battle and then played through the campaign. To be more precise, I played through the part that worked. It hung up on the "defend your trade route" command and never let me progress further. I was so wholly disinterested that I didn't bother playing through again.
On my first pass through the campaign, after I built my first ship and discovered the nearby trade port I then took the ship I built on a trip down the coast. Subsequently, when the tutorial wanted me to combine my ship with new ones to defend my trade route I could not order it to do anything at all. I was stuck.
I restared but this time left the ship you're told to build right where the tutorial told me to send it on its first voyage. Later, when the trade route needed protecting, I was indeed able to move it to join the new ships and proceed with the campaign.
The castle assault was no cakewalk. In fact, I failed miserably to capture the place. Now, I will say that I did a simple direct assault and never tried to be the least bit clever. I wanted to see how the AI would react to an Ambrose Burnside/John Bell Hood style attack. It chewed me up and spat me out.
I need to play more before weighing in on the battle speed/lethality question. Thus far though I haven't been put off by anything but the siege guns that I couldn't get to fire at the castle...
Barkhorn1x
02-23-2011, 19:23
I wanted to see how the AI would react to an Ambrose Burnside/John Bell Hood style attack. It chewed me up and spat me out.
American Civil War humor. Hilarious :)
Barkhorn1x
02-23-2011, 19:25
FYI. "Semi-official" confirmation that AA is not in fact implemented in the demo but will be in the release.
The Engine doesn't have AA supported yet, its in the final release so dont worry guys.
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/8178-Demo-Feedback-technical-problems?p=103820&viewfull=1#post103820
This leaves me (semi) relieved.
Revolting Friendship
02-23-2011, 20:37
So maybe there is need for little tweaking old friend?
I believe that's about right.. ;) Let's hope this one is more moddable than ETW.
Dead Guy
02-23-2011, 20:43
Hmm, that siege was quite the clusterfark.
I had no idea where to attack, I shot the gate to 100% damage but still couldn't enter through it. Didn't seem to matter since climbing walls seems pretty straight forward while carrying a long spear, and takes about 10 seconds. Wouldn't want generation deficient attention span to quit playing, right?
Guess you can use the bow hero to shoot a bit, they have longer range and can attack where there's no tower? I did get a few opportunities to shoot at yari units inside the walls without getting shot at with samurai archers, regardless.
Eventually I sent my katana samurai up the walls at the gates, they didn't open, the katanas lost against yaris, I think half of them were ashigerus even. The AI had sent his cavalry and at least one unit of yaris out to die before that, before I even reached the walls. Then I sent my yaris up and suddenly the enemy started running out the gates, shattered. I have no idea what happened at that point. Suddenly I won the battle without being anywhere near the keep-thingie.
Some of these games takes a while getting used to, but I can't say I'm impressed after this.
I like how there seems to be a lot of choke points on the map though.
edyzmedieval
02-23-2011, 23:12
The demo is nothing impressive. It feels like a reskinned NTW.
I hope for better things in the original.
Barkhorn1x
02-23-2011, 23:15
More semi-official bits from the moderator at at the .COM site:
To my knowledge there isn't any released material from the gold version yet as it only went gold a few days ago and the magazines/computer sites tend to run a week or two behind real time.
So...GOLD!
From this page:
As Mark said the demo is like a "lite" version of the full game in order to keep it as small as possible so just because something isn't in the demo doesn't mean it won't be in the full game.
This is why a lot of the graphical features are not included.
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/8188-The-Swords?p=103889#post103889
Seems like run speed is back to RTW levels. Walk is the fastest in any Total War game so far. Unless I did something wrong in the tests I just ran...
antisocialmunky
02-24-2011, 03:03
Seems like run speed is back to RTW levels. Walk is the fastest in any Total War game so far. Unless I did something wrong in the tests I just ran...
That pun was pretty terrible right there.
quadalpha
02-24-2011, 03:04
Seems like run speed is back to RTW levels. Walk is the fastest in any Total War game so far. Unless I did something wrong in the tests I just ran...
Moving by dragging out a formation defaults to run. Sure that wasn't the reason?
I timed same units for both walk and run so that cannot be the reason. And quite sure I was running at standard 1:1 time too.
IRONxMortlock
02-24-2011, 11:20
FYI. "Semi-official" confirmation that AA is not in fact implemented in the demo but will be in the release.
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/8178-Demo-Feedback-technical-problems?p=103820&viewfull=1#post103820
This leaves me (semi) relieved.
Really? This leaves me much more concerned. To me it comes across as though the AI is in such a poor state that they couldn't include it in the demo.
pevergreen
02-24-2011, 12:21
A big step ahead from what I can see, and while the CAI seemed a bit passive, it didn't perform badly and I suspect it was also limited by the confines of the demo campaign.
Playing the unlocked version of the demo, where the AI does what it wants, it made more sense. I declared on the logical first target (same as the tutorial) they tried to peace me with money, but i gobbled them up, but the green guys (Miyoshi?) declared when I went over the sea and they own nearly the whole of the tiny map now. Need to blitz that to get it even.
The Blind King of Bohemia
02-24-2011, 13:57
Haven't had a chance to play the demo yet but I just need to know. Has the unit speeds really gone back to insanity of Rome? If this is the case I think I'll leave it.
Sjakihata
02-24-2011, 14:12
Playing the unlocked version of the demo, where the AI does what it wants
How?
Kagemusha
02-24-2011, 14:18
How?
Here is the link to the open play mod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=428223
ByzantineKnight
02-24-2011, 14:32
FYI. "Semi-official" confirmation that AA is not in fact implemented in the demo but will be in the release.
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/8178-Demo-Feedback-technical-problems?p=103820&viewfull=1#post103820
This leaves me (semi) relieved.
Really? This leaves me much more concerned. To me it comes across as though the AI is in such a poor state that they couldn't include it in the demo.
I believe he is is referring to AA, Anti-Aliasing, not the Artificial Intelligence.
If you use the link Kagemusha posted (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?133237-Demo-out-on-22-February-2011&p=2053270064&viewfull=1#post2053270064), the mod will allow you to see how the Campaign AI acts by itself. However, if you would like to see the Battle AI in action I believe we have to wait until release.
Kagemusha
02-24-2011, 14:56
If you want to try more mods released for the demo, please visit the S2TW modding area and go this thread.I have gathered there the mods released so far: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?133403-Released-Mods-for-the-demo.
Barkhorn1x
02-24-2011, 18:54
I believe he is is referring to AA, Anti-Aliasing, not the Artificial Intelligence.
If you use the link Kagemusha posted (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?133237-Demo-out-on-22-February-2011&p=2053270064&viewfull=1#post2053270064), the mod will allow you to see how the Campaign AI acts by itself. However, if you would like to see the Battle AI in action I believe we have to wait until release.
Correct - Anti-Alaising takes care of the jaggies and makes everything look better on higher resolutions.
BTW, using the Camp mod and playing a conservative slow build up of buildings and tech only ensured my clans destruction by the agressive and strong Miyoshi clan. So that is "interesting".
Kagemusha
02-24-2011, 19:10
Correct - Anti-Alaising takes care of the jaggies and makes everything look better on higher resolutions.
BTW, using the Camp mod and playing a conservative slow build up of buildings and tech only ensured my clans destruction by the agressive and strong Miyoshi clan. So that is "interesting".
Thats great to hear. I dont remember the last time you could actually loose in TW game in campaign.
johnhughthom
02-24-2011, 19:43
The demo is updating on Steam at the minute, perhaps blocking the free play mod?
Lord Adherbal
02-24-2011, 20:16
It's all just so much lipstick on a pig of a battle engine. Insta-routing, poor pacing, super speeds, and unit reaction issues are all back with a vengeance and they've added some new head scratchers as well. (Why are my non-routing cavalry all running in opposite directions?) And as usual in the newer titles, don't bother zooming in to watch the cool animations they worked so hard on, as the battle will be decided before you have a chance to zoom back out. Arcade-ish would be a compliment.
What is really frustrating is that you can tell how much work they put into the details. The armor, animations, landscapes, and a hundred other aspects of the game are brilliant, but they fail to all come together to create an overall enjoyable experience. What is the point of all the special abilities and formations if the battle progresses so fast that you cannot make use of them? Why even bother to incorporate an exhaustion system, when it is practically meaningless to the game? (Changing the default from walk to run is indicative of the role exhaustion now plays in the engine.)
Yes it is far more polished and has a nifty dictionary, but the battles themselves are just awful - much worse than Empire and a far cry from the original.
Amen to that :shame:
I picked up interest in STW2 this month after noticing my old clan (Aggony) was still active and planning to play STW2. But this demo has crushed that. I lost interest in TW since RTW, and I suppose that's not gonna change.
Considering how many times I hear ppl say RTW was the TW game they enjoyed the most, and half this thread seems to be about whether the game has AA support, it looks like I'm just no longer compatible with the focus of modern total war :no:
edyzmedieval
02-24-2011, 22:37
Modern TW is geared towards newcomers. Everything is so changed from the original, and I'm not talking about the 3D engine.
It's a rehashed NTW, seriously. There's so much content used from NTW it's almost a half-new game, not even a new one. I'm not whining, I'm just heavily disappointed at how things have evolved. The original STW was and still is a gem of a game, and this doesn't make it any justice. :no:
And Sekigahara on Hard and Very Hard is not challenging if you take out the morale bonus. The AI made a couple of interesting moves but not enough to surprise me.
Battle pacing seems indeed alarmingly bad. If meaningful morale levels and a working RPS (or there abouts) are in place with too high speeds, the result is that working/sensitive intervals of engine parameters for gameplay (correct match ups, local outnumbering penalties, flanking) don't get a chance to manifest because of the pacing. If everything else is then following this (volley time, casualties per volley etc), then gameplay ends up a farce as everything happens all at once and gameplay degenerates into rush on rush.
I think Panzer Jaeger's point that well cared for particulars don't come together is true, and i am very seriously re-thinking getting this now despite having been resolute to do so.
Will wait awhile and see.
antisocialmunky
02-25-2011, 00:35
As long as the engine is bug free enough, tweaking the unit stats so things don't go dead so fast should be pretty easy.
Lord Adherbal
02-25-2011, 01:54
As long as the engine is bug free enough, tweaking the unit stats so things don't go dead so fast should be pretty easy.
That's a usual comment, but there are those of us who were hoping to relive the days of STW/MTW multiplayer.
And unit speed is far from the only issue. I spent years modding RTW, only to find out the system of battle mechanics are flawed at its core. It looks like that hasn't changed. They don't need a revolution, they need a devolution.
At least that's my oppinion. I'm afraid the meanstream game industry is no longer compatible with what I look for in a game.
PanzerJaeger
02-25-2011, 02:42
That's a usual comment, but there are those of us who were hoping to relive the days of STW/MTW multiplayer.
And unit speed is far from the only issue. I spent years modding RTW, only to find out the system of battle mechanics are flawed at its core. It looks like that hasn't changed. They don't need a revolution, they need a devolution.
At least that's my oppinion. I'm afraid the meanstream game industry is no longer compatible with what I look for in a game.
Indeed. Those of us who enjoy the multiplayer side of the game will be stuck with whatever the vanilla version looks like. MP mod efforts can never get enough takers to support a thriving community. Ladders, avatars, and character evolution are all meaningless if the game's mechanics create battles that just aren't that engaging or enjoyable.
Some short term enjoyability can be created through graphics, but that wears thin very quickly (especially if you cannot zoom in to see them as the game moves too fast). There has to be a level of balance and a system that rewards tactics and ability to induce replayability.
(Off course this is all just the opinion of a admirer of the first engine. Some people think RTW was the height of the series. I know, though, that MP has never recovered.)
I fought the demo battle several times and I have not found the problem mentioned here.
Running speed of infantry is indeed fast but walking is not fast at all. Morale works, flanking works. I have not seen insta routs unless you put your lone ashigaru in front of the whole enemy army. Supported units fight and samurai units fight for a reasonably long time. Ashigaru die fast, but they are peasants. Horses running around are actually the horses of dead samurai, i.e. out of the game anyway.
I fought the demo battle several times and I have not found the problem mentioned here.
Running speed of infantry is indeed fast but walking is not fast at all. Morale works, flanking works. I have not seen insta routs unless you put your lone ashigaru in front of the whole enemy army. Supported units fight and samurai units fight for a reasonably long time. Ashigaru die fast, but they are peasants. Horses running around are actually the horses of dead samurai, i.e. out of the game anyway.
Im all with you here. Running speed looks good and the moral is fine. Its still a bit too early to judge on this, but thats my first impression.
Insta routs i couldnt find, flanking and rearattacks looks good. So far the gameplay is okay.
Some bugs, running and giving order still works not perfect.
Lord Adherbal
02-25-2011, 14:07
I played the historical battle several times, my conclusions were:
-Run speed is very high
-Arrow volleys seem too powerful. I imagine if you had an archer duel opening a MP battle the side with just 1 less archer unit will be annihilated in no time. I doubt there is much time for light cavalry skirmishing during the archer duel either.
-I completely surrounded whole blobs of enemy units several times. The results were disappointing. The AI has higher quality units, but I feel that's exactly what surrounding should counter. It doesn't. The first 2 yari cavalry units took forever to destroy even when completely surrounded, and casualties on my side where very high. Other times the blob just broke through and routed by forces. I have the feeling since RTW surrounding no longer affects fighting performance, only morale. Meaning that if you can't actualy break them, a stronger unit will still cut you to pieces no problem.
-Yari ashigura units breaking before I even had time to get another unit around the flank of the attacker. Sure they're peasants and it will up against a higher level katana unit, but if they can't even be expected to hold half a minute the RPS gameplay seems a bit too extreme. Peasants or not, yaris are supposed to be a defensive unit, right?
I played the historical battle several times, my conclusions were:
-Run speed is very high
-Arrow volleys seem too powerful. I imagine if you had an archer duel opening a MP battle the side with just 1 less archer unit will be annihilated in no time. I doubt there is much time for light cavalry skirmishing during the archer duel either.
-I completely surrounded whole blobs of enemy units several times. The results were disappointing. The AI has higher quality units, but I feel that's exactly what surrounding should counter. It doesn't. The first 2 yari cavalry units took forever to destroy even when completely surrounded, and casualties on my side where very high. Other times the blob just broke through and routed by forces. I have the feeling since RTW surrounding no longer affects fighting performance, only morale. Meaning that if you can't actualy break them, a stronger unit will still cut you to pieces no problem.
-Yari ashigura units breaking before I even had time to get another unit around the flank of the attacker. Sure they're peasants and it will up against a higher level katana unit, but if they can't even be expected to hold half a minute the RPS gameplay seems a bit too extreme. Peasants or not, yaris are supposed to be a defensive unit, right?
I cant agree. Speed is just fine and i dont think that archer are too powerful.
You speak about the firevolleys? or the standart shots?
Standart arrow shots are not that good at all, you can look at the combat statistiks and watch the kills, which doesnt seem high.
Imo, the archer kill not enough, in a frontal h2h rush, the archer wont kill enough to bring some good value.
Units dont get killed or rout, no idea what battle you played, but i have no trouble at all to flank/rear and get units done quick.
Yari cav might not be the best choise, with heavy cav it works pretty good.
I played the battle a few times, and i had no problem at all, to rip of the center quick and move over to the left.
All in all, it looks okay so far. Hard to judge it all on this demo, but saying that the game/units are too fast is ....
Steam just updated my demo.
Did you put them on spearwall Lord Adherball?
Im all with you here. Running speed looks good and the moral is fine. Its still a bit too early to judge on this, but thats my first impression.
Insta routs i couldnt find, flanking and rearattacks looks good. So far the gameplay is okay.
Some bugs, running and giving order still works not perfect.
I must agree with Kocmoc and Cheetah. Nothing about speed or morale seemed out of sorts to me. Good troops fight on even when surrounded. Lesser men break and that's what I've seen. Fights that I thought should be short were. Engagements that I thought should be prolonged were indeed longer.
One does need to switch to walk if the default is run but that is hardly a game breaker. This is a demo and as such is not going to tell us all we want to know about the game mechanics. What it has shown to me is encouraging.
Lord Adherbal
02-25-2011, 15:48
My conclusions come from 3 attempts on the historical battle. Probably not enough to get a perfect feeling about the game, but I didn't like what I saw. Interesting to see some of you vets disagree.
I guess I'll wait and see what people say about MP when the game is out. I couldn't care less about SP if MP isn't any good.
Did you put them on spearwall Lord
I think you mean guard mode? Otherwise I might've missed a feature entirely :P
AFAIK guard mode only makes them hold position, and doesn't really affect their performance?
let me add another thing about archers. Once you use open formation (what the AI doesnt do) the kills drop even more.
I get myself into some better testing this weekend, but the demo give me the impression, that archer are not good enough.
Now, the battle isnt surely perfect for testing, but if you consider the kills on closed formation, this isnt good at all.
Look back on old STW/MI and remember, how many men got killed by missles when you rushed or got rushed.
Right now, i bet, that you wont win, if you face a melee frontalrush. If you open formation, the losses will be pretty low.
I didnt look into friendly fire, this will be another story, since i wont get a clean killnumber while playing this demo.
more testing needed....
Hi Adherbal,
spearwall is actually something different to guard mode.
When you activate spearwall for your yari ashigaru, they move to a closely packed formation and lower their spears to fend of any attacks. May be worth trying out.
On a little sidetrack :)
My experience was quite like your own. I loved STW and MTW/VI, but was rather disappointed by the "get it over quickly" battles of RTW and stopped playing after that for a long time. Now I returned with buying a copy of Napoleon TW, and that one I have quite enjoyed. I find those battles sufficiently slow paced to allow for some actually quite nice tactical thinking and have not regrettet getting a copy of that game.
Good to see that at least the opinoins on the STW2 demo seem to be divided. I am still hoping that it will turn out good, when we get more experience with it.
I think you mean guard mode? Otherwise I might've missed a feature entirely :P
AFAIK guard mode only makes them hold position, and doesn't really affect their performance?
Yari ashigura have a spear-wall formation that causes them to tighten up and ready spears. Its great when used to repell a charge since even higher quality troops (like Katana Samurai) will flat out lose to Ashigaru if they charge into the spear wall.
Lord Adherbal
02-25-2011, 16:47
Well I just gave the battle another try, looking more at individual unit performance instead of the overall battle. I must admit the results where better than my previous impressions led me to expect.
And I did completely miss the spear wall ability :shame:
Good to see that at least the opinoins on the STW2 demo seem to be divided. I am still hoping that it will turn out good, when we get more experience with it.
Agreed. In fact hearing some STW/MTW vets disagree on my initial ranting and my latest test run has increased my hopes a bit again. Looking at how much stuff they're adding to MP it would be such a shame if gameplay was not up to standard.
I enjoyed ETW MP for a while, although I played it solo with random teammates and opponents which didn't improve the experience. The need of a no art/mortars rule additionaly spoiled much of the fun. I passed on NTW. Was (and am) hoping STW2 would (and will) bring back the former MP fun.
I'll shut up now and await MP reports next month :smiley2:
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