View Full Version : How is your first campaign going?
The title says it all, how are you doing in your first actual campaign (let's say +15 turns in case someone decided to switch)?
I started up Mori on normal to try things out, I thought the campaign would be much more navy centric, but I've actually only had 3 naval battles where I've faced more than 1 enemy ship (I'm 60 turns into the campaign). Also not having any specialty land units made first 20 turns a real pain. I'm at war with Ashikaga Shogunate and neighboring them from north, I'm allied to Shimazu who hold their entire island and friendly with Chosokabe who also border Ashikaga and are turning into a powerhouse.
I'm literally rolling in cash (10K income) because I control all trade nodes except 1 and I should really put that money to use hiring armies to protect my borders from inevitable betrayal of Shimazu and to deal with Chosokabe, though Shimazu could be contained only using navy.
I'm just putting together fresh army to take on Ashikaga, all Samurai + Siege units with improved accuracy for bows, greatly improved melee attack for katanas and charge for cavalry.
I'm definitely going to see this campaign through, but next campaign I'll probably start somewhere near Philosophical Tradition so that I don't run out of things to build like I did in this campaign, or I could just start far away from trade nodes.
I'd move against the Shimazu if i were you. It makes you have only one way to go and so easy to concentrate all resources on one front. Even if you beat the Ashikaga you might get sandwitched by Chosokabe, Shimazu and whoever is strong on the other side behind the Ashikaga.
I'd move against the Shimazu if i were you. It makes you have only one way to go and so easy to concentrate all resources on one front. Even if you beat the Ashikaga you might get sandwitched by Chosokabe, Shimazu and whoever is strong on the other side behind the Ashikaga.
I'm currently thinking about preparing full naval blockade against them and then sandwiching them from north and south with naval invasions, forcing them to spread their forces so that I'm unlikely to face a single full stack.
Sounds like a good idea. I'd go after them first and get Kyushu (their island), before moving towards Kyoto. I'd bust the Chosokabe next too :)
Then the road would be clear and can move forwards undisturbed.
Since I'm playing long campaign, I pretty much HAVE to capture Shikoku and Kyushu, otherwise I risk running into the strongest AI faction in my present game: Takeda. And I don't want to face them in mountainous plains and very large provinces when the distance between my best recruiting regions and frontlines grows.
That's right, on top of that imagine the Shimazu or Chosokabe turn on you, as they will. Hence, crush them in one front and then move on the other :)
Cecil XIX
03-16-2011, 14:28
Played two campaigns, both an legendary: Uesugi and Chosokabe. Both times I lost without taking a single province, I think for the same reason: I focused first on developing my income and spurned recruitment. Either that, or I should have waited until I recruited a full stack. I'm going to keep trying with the Chosokabe and hopefully I can at least unify Shikoku.
Probably Cecil. I would expect that a strong rush at the beginning is essential.
Cecil XIX
03-16-2011, 15:04
Probably Cecil. I would expect that a strong rush at the beginning is essential.
I've heard the opposite actually. It looks to me like if you're too aggressive early on you'll get worn down quickly.
Right, don't take my word for it, i haven't the game yet.
Dead Guy
03-16-2011, 15:42
I got it installed at 10PM yesterday, when I normally start heading to bed :p
Started a Chosokabe campaign (VH), took the province to the north and a turn later got a warning that the guys to the east are likely to invade soon because of my weakened state. Hope I can hold them off somewhere where I can take advantage of the terrain, and then go into build-up mode for a while.
I think recruiting Samurai Archers might have been a really bad idea. They're so much more expensive, fewer men per unit and cost more upkeep. I bet the ability to envelop even with ashigerus would be worth more in the field.
Once again, being at work is being in hell... =)
I've heard the opposite actually. It looks to me like if you're too aggressive early on you'll get worn down quickly.
I guess that depends on the circumstances. Though I haven't played on legendary, I've taken a couple of provinces by letting 2 enemies wear each other down, or capturing a castle that was just captured by someone else. Just have to be really careful about betraying your allies, it doing so too early in game can cause serious loyalty and happiness issues on top of the relationship penalties.
Once again, being at work is being in hell... =)
Unlike hell it doesn't last forever. Weekend is coming ;)
I've heard the opposite actually. It looks to me like if you're too aggressive early on you'll get worn down quickly.
That is what happened to me (Hard setting); now I am faced with a need for multiple armies for defense and expension, but I cannot afford both because I dont have the economic infrastructure to support them.
I cant build up my economy in existing provinces because I need the funds to maintain my military, so I need to conquer additional provinces. But I cant conquer new provinces because I cant afford the extra units without leaving myself wide open on the other front.
So in all I'd say I'm dying a slow death; I can keep what is mine, but make very little progression while other clans are making much greater progress. Soon I will be hopelessly behind in development and killed off no doubt.
Loving it.
LordKhaine
03-16-2011, 21:31
Well I went for the Shimazu clan. A reasonably fast paced attack at the start to grab a few provinces, but nothing too excessive. I seem to be managing my finances fairly well, while keeping what appears to be a fairly decent sized army. And then a neighbour (who hated me, it wasn't exactly too surprising) attacks from the north. He appears to have a similar income to me and a fairly substantial army that matches mine... time to prepare for war!
Next turn, a full stack of enemy troops, higher quality than my own, appears out of no-where on a fleet of ships far behind the front lines. No possible way to get enough troops together to hold that stack at bay, considering it would be a fairly good match for both my armies combined. And those are both needed to match the enemy forces in the north, and are too far away to help in time.
Bugger.
Liberator
03-16-2011, 22:24
Well I went for the Shimazu clan. A reasonably fast paced attack at the start to grab a few provinces, but nothing too excessive. I seem to be managing my finances fairly well, while keeping what appears to be a fairly decent sized army. And then a neighbour (who hated me, it wasn't exactly too surprising) attacks from the north. He appears to have a similar income to me and a fairly substantial army that matches mine... time to prepare for war!
Next turn, a full stack of enemy troops, higher quality than my own, appears out of no-where on a fleet of ships far behind the front lines. No possible way to get enough troops together to hold that stack at bay, considering it would be a fairly good match for both my armies combined. And those are both needed to match the enemy forces in the north, and are too far away to help in time.
I have played two times on hard, 15 rounds with the Uesugi and currently with the Date.
In both campaigns the Shimazu where killed within 3-4(!) rounds!
And other "major" clans are hardly doing better in my Date Campaign... I have reached 1567 and only my Date, the Hojo (weak) and the Chosokabe have survived the onslaught.
Leaving out the Chosokabe, who are still only located on their island, and out of 9 major clans only 2 have survived...
And it is not because of me; I have 7 provinces right now and annihilated 2 minor clans, but aside of the Chosokabe the rest of the map is domineted by 3 strong "minor" clans
I have noticed a huge turnover of provinces right at the beginning of both campaigns, with clans dying and (re)emerging everywhere, a huge contrast to the first Empire campaign I played 2 years ago, where there was one big stalemate within europe throughout the game.
If there is anything to complain, I would like to see more rebels and less "minor" clans to emerge, giving a bigger weight to the "major" clans
antisocialmunky
03-16-2011, 23:19
Maybe there should be a short period of turns where the major clans get a bonus against rebels and go after neighboring rebels beforing going after each other. It sounds a little unstable right now.
Cecil XIX
03-16-2011, 23:30
I'm against anything that gives the so-called "Major Clans" an edge. The best part about the Warscape engine is how every province is controlled by a unique faction instead of generic rebels.
martyshka
03-17-2011, 01:34
I've played about 2 dozen turns as Shimazu and it's really lovely. At one point, as I was fighting Shoni and was only a turn away from a third castle to conquer I was backstabbed by a trade partner. They showed with two stacks near my capital and in the chaos I lost all I gained except my starting province. But a few decisive battles later I had the whole of Kyushu (the southern island) to myself. I've seen AI stack it's armies, backstab me when there was an opening, even sneak in an army by sea. What I'm glad I didnt see were the silly one unit speed bumps that were so annoying in the previous games.
Dead Guy
03-17-2011, 08:41
So, Chosokabe VH campaign.
Started off on the military side of the arts, gathered an army and quickly moved on the province to the north. I take it and shortly after I get hints that my eastern neighbour (Miyoshi?) is planning to invade. I build a few more units, and my economy sort of grinds to a halt.
Now I send trade ships to the trade nodes and save money to improve my economy, and switch to the economic side of the arts, going for the improved farms. Both the Miyoshi and the other neighbour on the northeast side of Shikoku have a full stack each, mostly Ashigaru to the NE, Miyoshi has cavalry too.
I spend a good deal of turns sending trade ships to 3 different nodes and build ports to trade with other clans, and I start making a profit again, building new buildings almost every turn and training katanas every now and then.
I didn't attack until the NE clan moved on the Miyoshi and got repelled. Then I immediately threw my almost full stack at their castle town and took it. I then took the Miyoshis provinces but then I had to go to bed. This is the first time I've had anything like the upper hand on a neighbour :p
The battle against the Miyoshi was really quite nice. The AI used his cav pretty intelligently, his spears bunched up a bit but nothing incredibly stupid or passive.
Originally posted by martyshka
What I'm glad I didnt see were the silly one unit speed bumps that were so annoying in the previous games.
Welcome to the org martyshka, enjoy your stay.
this sounds like a substantial improvement and really good news. I haven't seen teh AI mass his forces properly since the MTW days when armies were massed due to teh 2d map.
Playing as Date. Wiped out the red clan you start at war with, killed my rebel brother, and have been allies with the green clan that starts next to you since 5 turns in (they apparently start at war with Takeda, so I was luckily not pulled into that). I use the green clan as an invasion buffer, but I know I will have to turn on them at some point because they hold 2 regions I need to win. It's unfortunate, because they ALWAYS join me when I declare war. I march through them and expand, boating around Takeda and finishing off Uesegi. There's an awesome 1-city island just north of Takeda's land; it has a gold mine and is owned by a minor clan. It's their only city, so I recommend wiping them out and taking this city immediately. It made 1800 a turn at the level it was at when I got it, I upgraded it (took 7 turns!) and now it makes 2500.
First time player of any Total War game and I must say that I am enjoying my experience thoroughly. I started with Shimazu since I wanted an easier situation to learn the game mechanics. I read the forums to look at strategies and techniques so I started by becoming an ally and trade partner to my neighbor to the north and positioning my general on my borders to the east since I was at war with that clan. Since I started with a blacksmith, I refrained from training any troops until I could train them with advanced weaponry - which luckily worked in my favor. Slow and controlled build-up and execution have worked for me.
I'm about 60 turns in and I really love the immense feeling when two generals do battle with full stacks of armies (just happened on my last turn). I had the enemy castle under siege when I was attacked and little could I believe my luck when I had a perfect positioning; 2 hills, one massive and minor, both covered in forests. I set a small strike team of my samurai archers/yari on the small hill with my main force and generals on my main hill. I waited until their main army committed to the large hill and then let my samurai archers' fire arrows fly. I took about 400 troop loss since my front lines became fragmented when some of their troops routed but I chalk that up to my not micromanaging.
I really like the ninja in the game. I enjoy having a 5 star master assassin that I can send to remove worrying generals. However, I'm not really sure if I'm using the market unit (the one that specializes in counter-espionage) correctly. Basically he's just sitting in one of my newly acquired castles to improve happiness since the religion is Christianity and I am not.
But as I said, love the game. Can't wait to try something harder once I finish this one up.
Welcome to the org Thelne, enjoy your stay. From what you post sounds like a fun campaign.
Barkhorn1x
03-17-2011, 17:42
However, I'm not really sure if I'm using the market unit (the one that specializes in counter-espionage) correctly. Basically he's just sitting in one of my newly acquired castles to improve happiness since the religion is Christianity and I am not.
Welcome to the Org. We are the more mature fans of TW. You mean your Metsuke. The Metsuke has many uses:
- Use him as you are doing to pacify the populous
- Use him to apprehend and hopefully execute enemy Ninjas and Metsuke
- Use him to travel with your Diaymo or generals army to protect them from enemy agent activity
- Establish a "crime syndicate" to earn extra income
I kinda like the Metsuke :)
I'm against anything that gives the so-called "Major Clans" an edge. The best part about the Warscape engine is how every province is controlled by a unique faction instead of generic rebels.
I think some minor factions start with 2-3 provinces at the start so they may have an advantage. The second minor faction I fought also had a 3-4 star general with 2-4 experience units near the start so there might be some bug giving them the edge.
That said, I do like seeing the minor factions being able to compete with the major ones. In my normal Chokosabe game, Oda died during the first turn. During the next 20 turns, Shimazu, Mori and Uesugi died as well, with Shimaze reappearing then dying again. Hojo eventually got killed by a minor faction after being in war with the Takeda and too many other factions. The most powerful factions right now are me, the Shoni and the Yamano. I've been trading with the Shoni for a while and I attacked the Yamano after they went to war with each other.
Also, the Kanto plain yields might have been nerfed from Shogun. The eastern part used to have the richest provinces. Unless the factions there are just behind in developing, the yields there are not noticeably different than the lands near me.
Welcome to the Org. We are the more mature fans of TW. You mean your Metsuke. The Metsuke has many uses:
- Use him as you are doing to pacify the populous
- Use him to apprehend and hopefully execute enemy Ninjas and Metsuke
- Use him to travel with your Diaymo or generals army to protect them from enemy agent activity
- Establish a "crime syndicate" to earn extra income
I kinda like the Metsuke :)
I use them to increase the tax rate on my richest provinces.
I thought the last one was for the ninja?
I use them to increase the tax rate on my richest provinces.
That's essentially all I do with my Metsuke, if I can't recruit them from a province with philosophical tradition (+1 or more experience level) I send them wandering around bribing and apprehending until they gain a rank and retainer. Though just having them in castles "overseeing" slowly gives them exp, it's so little you probably won't reach 3 star level starting from 1 even during an entire game.
stationing Metsukes in provinces with gold mines + market really brings in the money.
Barkhorn1x
03-17-2011, 21:12
I use them to increase the tax rate on my richest provinces.
I thought the last one was for the ninja?
Good call and I gotta check on that last one as you may indeed be correct.
Gregoshi
03-18-2011, 08:49
My Mori campaign is still going after 7-8 years. Thought I was a goner as I lost Aki but my capital switched to Iwami - my only other province. Surprisingly, my war with the Amako is still going on. Neither of us can get a knock out blow on the other. I've taken Iwami from them and that is as far as it goes. Amako fails to take back Iwami and I can't take Izumo. The Amako have sued for peace twice, but smelling blood and their weak army, I've declined the offer. The first time, my army made it to the Izumo castle to besiege it and the Amako sallied out and beat me because I rushed to the seige without waiting for trailing samurai units to catch up.
One thing I've noticed is that the AI does not protect its capital well enough - but honestly, I haven't either. I witnessed a double knock out in my campaign. the Kikkawa sent their whole army against me and I had one or two paltry units to block their march to Aki castle. Thought I was done for. Suddenly, during the AI moves, their army disappeared and I noticed the clan on the opposite side from me was occupying the Kikkawa castle. By the end of the AI moves, that conquering clan was eliminated as well and the Hattori banner was flying above the Kikkawa castle.
I have to say, I was punch drunk for a while with all the fighting. I just wanted the fighting to stop so I could build something - an army, buildings...anything. There always seemed to be 2-3 clans at war with me leaving no opportunity to build the economy or an army. Fortunately the clans in my area aren't much better, though the Amako have recently shown signs they are out-teching me. I need to eliminate them soon - very soon. Personally, I think I'm doomed at this point, but I'll tough it out and see how long I can last.
Ituralde
03-18-2011, 09:31
Started my first campaign as the Uesugi on Normal and it's given me enough of a challenge that I can't complain. Fought the first battle against the Rebels and sustained way more losses than I had anticipated. Ashigaru just whittle away under concentrated Arrow fire. After that I began a slow build up. With the provinces so large I needed enough troops to stay with my Damyo and also muster a second expansion force. You start with your southern neighbours as vassals and I got friendly with all my other neighbours as well except for the Benji to the East whom you start at war with. My Damyos brother took an invasion force to the Benji homeland.
One turn away from their castle another clan comes in and destroys the Benji. Guess that's why they offered me a peace treaty and some money earlier. Next turn the Benji reappear and take their castle, but now their army is really large and they try to oust me from their province. I retreat back into my lands and the next turn Rebels take over the Benji province and they loose their army as it was in my territory. I have no problem to take my second province from the Rebels. I take my eyes on the peninsula just to the north of the Benji province and to the small island off the mainland, that has the gold mine on it. But my preparations for war are interrupted.
The Hojo have been busy in the South and now have 6 provinces, they're allied with the Takeda who own 4 provinces and the Date have crushed my buffer clans to the north and are now up to 4 provinces as well. Since the Takeda and Hojo attack my vassal, and my allies of Ashina I find myself at war with both of them. Luckily my allies take the worst of the beating and Takeda neglects to guard Hida province properly. I rush in from the north and take out his under defended castle. I then advance towards North Shinano, where it's touch and go for a while. His garrison is too large so I retreat back to Hida, where the Takeda follow and try to storm the castle. I beat them off soundly, but still have to defeat their remnants in a field battle next turn. After that the road to the North Shinano stronghold is open, but it is still heavily guarded. The fighting is fierce and I loose my Uesugi Warrior Monks, but I'm up to 4 provinces as well.
I have focused on the Chi path to get to the Warrior Monks, but I neglected to build a Naginata Dojo or Foot Archery Range in my capital so I can't recruit any Warrior Monks yet. Down the Bushido path it is then. Of course the Date have now also declared war on me. So I'm facing off against three major clans and my one ally (not the vassal) has been beaten and reappeared several times. Now the Hojo are at my doorstep and the Takeda are ready for a counteroffensive. Also the Ikko-Ikko muster their forces near my Benjo province, which is sorely undefended and I want to take that gold island asap, but it is heavily garrisoned.
I'll see what the future brings, but it looks to get interesting!
Daveybaby
03-18-2011, 10:24
I lost my first campaign after 4 or 5 turns. Second campaign as chosokabe (i think) on normal difficulty level is actually going surprisingly peacefully. Took over the whole of the Shikoku (for a total of 5 provinces) in the first 20-ish turns, at which point i was broke from fielding a pretty large army. Decided to sit back, disband a sizable chunk of my army and trade & turtle for a bit and build up my economy, which seems to be going pretty well. Nobody is at war with me, i managed to nab 2 of the trade posts (which i'm busily spamming with trade ships).
Currently have a market in every province, with a metsuke keeping the peace, raking in over 3k per turn, should be much more when the bulk of my trade fleet reach the trade posts and i upgrade the markets. Upgrading roads, farms & harbours like there's no tomorrow. However, if someone dumps a full stack anywhere on the island i'm buggered.
Planning to take over kyushu next, as they all seem to hate me over there (for no apparent reason) and it might give me an excuse to nab some more trade posts. Need to build up my army + navy first, but every turn there seems to be something to build that pulls in yet more money. Seems I'm getting greedy.
Lost my first campaign as Date on Hard.
did fairly well before i ran outta money and only had 1 field army which couldnt compete with hojo's 4-5 full stacks, i held my own for a while but it was a futile effort.
Second campaign is going well, shimazu on hard, slowly taking control of the island u start on, had some good fights with the minor factions on the island, own about half the island atm and most of the trading posts currently working on building some better troop training facilities and feilding a large army to take the rest of the island.
crpcarrot
03-18-2011, 10:54
started first campaign on hard with Date and i'm now stangnant. i dont see how i can win. i'm hemmed in by strongly allied factions i hold only two provinces not much income and not a large enough army to carry out a sustained war. unless war breaks out among my neighburs and i can pick of the weakned provinces i might have to start a new campaign soon on normal. unfortunately all my neighburs are strongly allied. battles wise its been excellent. 90% of my battles have been large ones and you dont see une unit armies running about all over the map, the AI also attacks only in force. i think what everyone emans by the battles ebing fast is the kill rates. i ahve no problems with movement speeds. kill rates could be slower so we can have those epic battles of STW and MTW but they are not as bad as RTW. terrain makes a real difference again and most of the battle is spent out manouvering each other (good old days ) i managed to outfalnk the enemy last night by waking 4 units thought woods. i havent seen much higher ground advantage yet but thats cos i have had to defend/attach a hill. once battle is joined its bit hard to differenciate units becasue they all seem o be dressed the same but i guess we can put that down to battlefeild confusion.
all in all i might fall in love with TW again :D
therother
03-18-2011, 16:45
Rather enjoying my first campaign, I have to say. Uesugi was my favourite clan from STW, but they didn't start at the end of the map, so plumped for Shimazu at the other end for a change.
CAI is much more aggressive than the last few games, handles naval invasions well, doesn't fight to the death, sticks broadly with alliances where it makes sense, handles its agents effectively, armies appear balanced and well proportioned, etc. I'd say the CAI is pretty good from what I've seen on normal. I'm not one for playing the battles that much, only play crucial or interesting battles (eg where I just have ninjas - that was fun!), so I don't really have that much experience of the BAI (plus my first campaign was on normal difficulty). Still seems a little susceptible to tricks, eg I intentionally routed one of my light cav units when the AI assaulted one of my castles. The AI had half its army, and all its infantry, chasing after them for a good few minutes. In that time, I sallied out to destroy his archers and spear his general, leaving just the now exhausted and demoralised peasant spearmen to face my balanced army. Was a massacre.
I have few little interface gripes, but they are just minor annoyances that I'm sure can be taken care of (like selecting an agent from the agent list and it selects the army he's overseeing).
I'm Shogun and have 52/60 provinces now, so will win soon. Just mopping up Takeda in the East. I'll be move on to top level difficulty and see how I get on... Looking forward to it!
Gregoshi
03-18-2011, 17:03
I'm Shogun and have 52/60 provinces now, so will win soon. Just mopping up Takeda in the East. I'll be move on to top level difficulty and see how I get on... Looking forward to it!
:2thumbsup: I'm impressed. :bow:
DisruptorX
03-18-2011, 18:42
Lost my first campaign as Oda, because my vassal started realm divide by taking a town, then turned on me. I didn't know they could do that, but I don't make vassals anymore.
Second game is corrupted and crashes whenever I click anything. I was close to winning it.
I will not be starting another single player game until there is a patch. I do not feel comfortable playing any game that corrupts save files this easily. Its only happened to me once before, in the hundreds of hours I've played total war games. I think it was as France in MTW 2. Having it happen the second campaign here is not a good sign.
Daveybaby
03-18-2011, 19:20
I think it was as France in MTW 2.
Heh, could just as easily have been RTW, or more likely ETW, that had savegame corruptions as a feature listed on the box IIRC.
Ah well, almost comforting to know some of CAs signature features are still alive and well. :-)
Lord Benihana
03-18-2011, 19:27
Currently playing first campaign as Shimazu on normal - seems to be the most enjoyable version of TW since MTW.
I took over the faction that Shimazu starts at war with, captured all 3 trade nodes to the west, and then sent my faction heir to the Island where the Choksabe clan lives because my island is peaceful (for now) I'm a little over 20 turns in and only have 4 regions... which is probably the least I have ever had in a TW game 20 turns in
2 thumbs up
d1ng0d0g
03-18-2011, 19:59
I started my first campaign on Normal as the Hojo, and after dispatching the ones I start at war with, I was 'betrayed' by the ones on the left. They took the town to the north of the capital the Hojo start with, and with a two flanked attack I managed to retake it. Right at that moment, I got the campaign bonus for finishing the art of attack and I got the mangonel.
With that, and a steady stream of replacement Ashigurai I totally crushed that foe, while at the same time I was focusing on creating trade agreements. And that seemed to be enough to stop people from going to war with me, allowing me to tech up, and actually afford about 2 stacks consisting of 4 Yari Ashigaru and 4 Bow Ashigaru together with a few scraps of Samurai (and the mangonel).
The Date to the North and the Tokugawa to my West were really growing very fast, and considering I was allies with the Tokugawa, it seemed I was waiting for my own destruction. Then the Tokugawa finally went to war against the Date (it did require some Hojo money to convince the Date an alliance with the Tokugawa wasn't wise).
And I profited most from that war, by utterly destroying the Date (and vassalizing everything to the north and east of my position). Then I rolled back and conquered a few rebel provinces, remnants of the Tokugawa Date war.
At that point I had 4 of those aforementioned armies (although my generals sure were dishonorable, I had to order them to commit seppuku a lot).
So I decided to go with the proverb 'There is no dishonor in victory' and struck against the Tokugawa's allies. And they broke their alliance with me. However, upon destroying that ally (I think it was the Satai with just two provinces), the Shogun decided I was a threat and I got the Country Divided event. Everybody that wasn't an vassal of mine came at me. One of my vassals actually was very successful and rolled up the Tokugawa, while I got some scraps too. And then I decided to try and capture Kyoto, with two full stacks only to be horribly surprised that it was guarded by an army unlike any I had ever seen fielded by the AI.
With two of my four armies destroyed, no fleet to speak off, the my Clan soon fell to the combined might of the other clans. Leaving me with exactly what I started with. I was almost begging for peace, and fortunately for my vassals, I was still fairly well in the income. And it was only a matter of time (3 turns or so) before those vassals realized the mighty Hojo had fallen, and they came at me for revenge.
End game.
And all in all, I have to say, this Total War is perhaps the most enjoyable straight out of the box of them all.
antisocialmunky
03-18-2011, 22:43
Legendary Shimazu. They zerg Ashigaru at me until I die on both the times I've tried it.
Ituralde
03-18-2011, 23:24
Rolling with the punches on my Normal Uesugi campaign. I made peace with Takeda and secured the trade node up north without Date interference.
Hojo showed up with one and a half stack in my home province though and besieged me. I had the brilliant idea to sally forth, and although I had only slightly fewer units the Hojo completely wiped the floor with me. Next season I sit in my two tier Castle Town without anyone to defend it.
My second army that rushes up is too late and so I loos my home province and my Damyo. But that's not all. With the half-stack reinforcement they immediatelly go after the reinforcing army, which is also crushed by the superior troops. I loose my second general who has become Damyo in the meantime. With my home province gone and all of my generals dead I think this is game over! I lost on Normal!
But no, there's more. Some distant relative claims to be Damyo and I have even managed to conquer my home province back with a little support from my vassal. Due to a rebellion and the following battle I got a Man of the Hour general, so five years later I'm back where I started from. No progress. This is really the most intense campaign I've ever had on normal.
Naughtius Maximus
03-19-2011, 00:00
Playing as the Tokugawa on N/N.
The war with the Oda was brief; after a closely won victory over the Oda army that began the campaign in our territory, the Oda sent a fresh army into our province and we were besieged. A narrow and phyrric victory was won but our faithful general Matsudaira Hidenaga was killed. The Oda intended to follow up a couple of turns later but they were overthrown by the Saito who invaded from their home province. This has allowed us to build up our trade and infrastucture - we commissioned the construction of a Buddhist temple in lieu of a spear/katana/archery dojo which we hop will facilitate a speedy our acquisition of new capabilities. Our clan is strengthened by the addition of the Ii clan, and their leader Ii Michinaga. He has since proved his loyalty and is providing invaluable service to us.
Being a vassal state, it has limited us to small things. Fortunately, the Tsutsui, alarmed by the expansion of the Saito attacked them and killed their Daimyo. They drove north even to the borders of the Takeda clan. They apparently overextended themselves and were preparing plans to attack us; declaring war, but the Tokugawa Daimyo, leading a strengthened army of Mikawa troops, defeated them and took Owari. The Imagawa have sent a large army to our aid and we are now considering our next move. Ships are traveling the coasts and securing trade routes which will hopefully bear fruit soon.
Once our lands are extended toward Kyoto we will carefully consider the future of our arrangement with the Imagawa.
Cecil XIX
03-19-2011, 02:56
This isn't my first campaign, but I've been making succesive attempts at a Legendary Chosokabe campaign. First two tries I couldn't take a single province, third try I conquered the Kono but went against the Miyoshi too early and got crushed by two succesive near-full stacks.
I'm on my fourth try now, took down the Kono again and bided my time before taking on the Miyoshi. The Miyoshi lost Settsu, and the Sogo took Awa from them, so they were reduced to Awaji and smartly accepted peace with me. The Sogo kept all their army in Awa province, so I took the iniative and seized Sanuki province before fighting their main army in a climactic battle for control of Shikoku. I was finally able to unify the province, and the Miyoshi even sent an army to help me! I was worried they were going to stab me in the back, so I let them do all the fighting in the second battle. But they were perfectly faithful, and returned to Awaji once I unified Shikoku. I decided to let them be, since I was worried that if I conquered Awaji I'd come into contact with a big clan that would then declare war on me. So I disbanded my inexperienced ashigaru and set about investing in infastructure.
I made my first mistake when I decided to attack the Hatakeyama before finishing off the Miyoshi. Once you're at war with other clans Awaji Island isn't useful as a buffer. My second mistake was to be overconfident when the Hatakeyama left their castles in Kii, Kawachi and Settsu provinces were all forts guarded by one regiment of samurai retainers. I sent my Daimyo over without recruiting new soldiers, so he only had 15 regiments. The Hatakeyama Daimyo led a full stack against me after I had taken Kii and Kawachi, so I retreat to Kii's castle and hoped their superior numbers would convince them to assault.
Well they didn't, and next turn I saw two more full stacks approaching. I decided I needed to sally, but gotten beaten badly because my so-called "courageous" Daimyo fled in terror from some arrow fire after he lost 80% of his bodyguard. But by a stroke of luck, Kii province had a ninja village outside the castle. I was able to upgrade it, and it turns out you can recruit agents from a castle that's undersiege! I started out with two levels, and so I put them all into assassination. Then I sent him after the the Hatakeyama Daimyo... And he killed him. Another sally later, and my Daimyo was free! There was a second army to the south blocking off his retreat, but I had another ninja sabotage him and we was able to get away. I sent a fleet over to pick up my Daimyo, soldiers and ninja, but before they could leave the coast they were attacked by a Hatakeyama fleet! They had two Medium Bunes and two Bow Kobaya, while I had one and three of the same, plus an general on board. I did terribly though, lost all ships but one. Then the next turn I discovered that if you stray too far from the coast, your ships take attrition. I should have known, that's why I had to manually tell the ship to go that way instead of simply ordering it directly to port. The ship sunk taking everybody with it. :skull:
I didn't have any generals or navy, and had barely begun retraining my army. Then the Hatakeyama landed an army in Awa and took the castle! Their army was small though, so I though if I sabotaged the gates, I could take advantage of my superior number of bowmen and shoot them out. Unfortunately my archers didn't do too well, and even though I outnumbered them my samurai got beaten back rather pitfully by the ashigaru when they rushed the three gates. What's worse is that it seems if you lose a castle assault, you don't retreat away long enough to be safe. The enemy sallied and attacked before my turn came up again, so I couldn't retreat. Some of my unit survived this battle, but the Hatakeyama were still able to reach them again! This time they got destroyed. I tried this again using a different strategy for assaulting. But it still didn't work. Eventually I was able to take the castle back, but by then the enemy landed a full stack at Sanuki province! Fortunately by now Motochika Chosokabe has come of age, and I was able to get a ninja to sabotage the invading army and delay it for two seasons. Now they're finally attacking the castle, but it's a Fortress so I think I can get rid of quite a few of them, especially since I recruited two units of Rank 3 Bow Ashigaru. The enemy army is all Ashigaru with no general, and Motochika's got 15 regiments with some samurai, so between taking the Castle and having to fave my Daimyo I'm confident I can repel this invasion. I think I'm fortunate in that the Hatakeyama's southern provinces don't have ports, the have to sail to Shikoku all the way from Noto. Then again, I'm also at war with two other clans that are much closer and they haven't done anything.
...My, that's a lot of text. :dizzy: Apologies if it's too long, but this is easily the best campaign experience I've ever had in a TW game, and I've been playing since the original. Every time you move an army it can cause a complete disaster, and I'm loving it.
Gregoshi
03-19-2011, 03:22
I'm loving these campaign reports. I'm thinking this game will generate some fantastic AARs.
Once our lands are extended toward Kyoto we will carefully consider the future of our arrangement with the Imagawa.
I've been playing legendary as Tokugawa and, just as a note, beware Imagawa. A couple of campaigns I've played(and lost) because I grew too comfortable with Imagawa and then they turned on me... which was strange since I was their vassal.
In my campaign, I've pushed west to the provinces east of Kyoto and tried to solidify my alliances and economy. Unfortunately, it seems legendary has made the other factions uber aggressive. Hojo turned on Imagawa and crushed him with three stacks and then besieged my capital. I turned my forces (I've got a 3 star Daimyo with maxed out campaign movement) and reached them just in time to fight on even footing between two of his stacks and two of mine. Their forces were more upgraded with samurai bowmen, bowmen cavalry, and katana samurai. I defeated the two stacks but only had about 600 men left when he attacked me with the third stack of about 1200. This battle literally came down to one man, I saved the replay because it was so ridiculous. I defended the fort and managed to whittle him down just enough but I saw the writing on the wall when, hope against hope, I saw the enemy begin to waver. So, I charged them with what I had left except for my lone minister(the rest of his unit had been slaughtered in the previous battle) who sat back to provide morale support. Unfortunately, katana samurai just cut through my ashigaru bowmen like butter and they rout. The katana samurai were still wavering and all I have left is my single minister with +3 defence who I send charging in. He manages to cause them to run and I win the battle.
I have 4 provinces and a severely depleted military. The Hojo to my east have 8 provinces but their army is destroyed. The Hattori to my west have declared war due to my weakened state and have moved half a stack to siege one of my towns. Takeda to the north is friendly, but an ally of the Hojo and mighty. Based on what I've played before, I might as well restart because the Hattori are going to obliterate me. I can't bring myself to quit though because this is still the strongest and longest I've managed to stay in while playing as Legendary.
This is the first Total War I've ever actually lost a campaign. It is hard as nails and I love it.
Naughtius Maximus
03-19-2011, 07:50
The war with the Oda was brief; after a closely won victory over the Oda army that began the campaign in our territory, the Oda sent a fresh army into our province and we were besieged. A narrow and phyrric victory was won but our faithful general Matsudaira Hidenaga was killed. The Oda intended to follow up a couple of turns later but they were overthrown by the Saito who invaded from their home province. This has allowed us to build up our trade and infrastucture - we commissioned the construction of a Buddhist temple in lieu of a spear/katana/archery dojo which we hop will facilitate a speedy our acquisition of new capabilities. Our clan is strengthened by the addition of the Ii clan, and their leader Ii Michinaga. He has since proved his loyalty and is providing invaluable service to us.
Being a vassal state, it has limited us to small things. Fortunately, the Tsutsui, alarmed by the expansion of the Saito attacked them and killed their Daimyo. They drove north even to the borders of the Takeda clan. They apparently overextended themselves and were preparing plans to attack us; declaring war, but the Tokugawa Daimyo, leading a strengthened army of Mikawa troops, defeated them and took Owari. The Imagawa have sent a large army to our aid and we are now considering our next move. Ships are traveling the coasts and securing trade routes which will hopefully bear fruit soon.
Once our lands are extended toward Kyoto we will carefully consider the future of our arrangement with the Imagawa.
Part II
We are at war with the Tsutsui, and our overlords, the Imagawa prosecute their war with them and a seesaw battle for Ise province ensues. The Imagawa prevail but only briefly. This is probably because our lord orders our armies to hold a defensive line at the river crossing to Owari and not to aid the Imagawa directly. We concentrate on strengthening our trade networks and before long our merchants report that we have a monopoly on the incense and silk trades. This appears to make other clans, particularly those in the west of the country eager for our trade. The Hojo declare war on us; and they overrun the Imagawa lands to the the East. Not since the invasion of the Oda has there been such a threat. Almost simultaneously the Tsutsui prevail in Ise and the Imagawa are quickly wiped out. This comes as something of a mixed blessing that while we are released from the constraints of our vassal status we are beset upon on both sides by sworn enemies. Amazingly, the Tsutsui offer an alliance to which our lord wisely assents. At the same time the Takeda declare war, allying themselves with the Hojo. Lord Tokugawa and our best army then quickly moved east to counter the Hojo threat. The Hojo overrun Suruga, Totomi and, shockingly our home province of Mikawa, but have brought insufficient reserves to prevent us from taking it back. There are two great battles in Mikawa and the Hojo are annihilated. We drive east, taking Suruga and Totomi, deaf to the repeated entreaties of the Hojo emissaries. Soon our men are hammering at the gates of Odawara, and a second army drives up through Shinano and takes Kai from the Takeda. The Tokugawa heir, Ieyasu, assumes command of the army attacking Odawara. More good news follows; the Date offer an alliance and they are driving south, taking Hojo and Takeda provinces in their stride. Between us is the Satake clan, who, though they had been up til this time been neutral, decide to ally themselves with the Takeda. This is unacceptable to our lord and he launches an immediate attack on them. Our bold action pays off and Izu is added to our conquests.
Word reaches our lord from friends at the Imperial Court of fears in the Ashikaga Shogunate of our recent expansion. Upon hearing this, our lord orders more troops and fortifications in Owari and Mino provinces.
The barbarians offer trade several times, but, our lord having built an important monastery in Mikawa declines the offer as he apparently does not want to alienate our Buddhist followers as the monks have provided invaluable services in our victories over the Hojo and Satake. The Namban will have to seek their profits elsewhere.
Most recently, there is evidence of the cooling of the alliance with the Tsutsui. They have refused a modest request for military access. This is, perhaps, a harbinger of a future conflict.
Diamondeye
03-19-2011, 17:17
My first campaign is going fantastic so far! I play Chosokabe, and I started by taking over the entire island I started on (Shikoku?), destroying two minor clans and vassalizing a third who only owns the small island just east of me where you can cross the strait without ships. I've got a murderous general who I've now sent onto the Shimazu island (the Shimazu are long gone themselves); I've killed the Ito and now, I'm facing my first really challenging opponent, a really large clan who originates from the northwestern part of the main island but who've taken almost all of the Shikoku island. Luckily, they are also at war with the Matsuda clan, who own four provinces on their eastern front, so I hope they will be distracted so I can conquer the Shimazu island completely - I only just took Kagoshima from them, my first conquest in this war.
I am probably going to post some fluff text about how I see the game (in-universe fiction, or whatever you want to call it) in this forum. Just, fragments from my campaign so far.
sassbarman
03-20-2011, 07:39
Second go as the Mori on legendary and am loving it. I have carved out a nice little 6 province empire and am banking about $3500 a turn right now. I'm about 40 turns in and have been on the brink of defeat twice but managed to hang on by the skin of my teeth and claw my way back. It's just such a different and more rewarding experience with this game over previous CA offerings. I mean to feel a sense of accomplishment after conquering only 6 regions forty turns in says it all. Oh ya and the game looks ridiculously good. Playing a night battle during a rain storm...
Napoleon The Emperor Of Europe
03-20-2011, 10:52
I wonder if anyone has done the Takeda Campagin?
If so,I would love to defeat you,to stop your influence spreading on my lands.
Takeda vs Others.
I just started my first campaign as Shimazu, on easy, I know, I stink! But in reality, I just wanted to get a feel for the game before I attempt a more difficult level. I took my first castle. The siege was much more fun than in M2TW. I leveled up my first general and enjoy the rpg options available to increase his aptitude. Scouting north with a ninja to see how I will plan my next invasion. The game runs amazingly smooth on my older PC, all settings on high. All in all I am really pleased, I haven't had this much fun in quite some time. We will see how things go when I acquire a few more enemies!
aimlesswanderer
03-20-2011, 15:03
I started a Date campaign on H/H on fri night as soon as I installed the game.
I must say, money is a serious problem, and the 2 turns needed to train the better units makes it challenging to build up a decent army fast.
I got rid of the rebels after about 3 turns as I trained some reinforcements. A few more ashigaru and it was off to the northern Mogami province, which fell after a siege where they ran around in circles.
By this time the economy was struggling badly, and for the next 5 or so years I couldn't build a decent sized army to take on the Hatakeyama to the south. I eventually managed to take them out, then it was war with the Satake, the Hojo and the Uesugi. Struggled to defeat the large and numerous Hojo and Uesugi stacks, but gradually made my way to the Kanto.
Meanwhile, the Ito had taken Kyushu, the Amako the western third of Honshu, the Hattori the area around Kyoto, the Uesugi had 5, the Hojo 6, and the Takeda 7.
I think it's about 1568 or so, and I've managed to mostly kill off the Hojo, and the Satake and Uesugi are gone. The Takeda lost their core provinces to a new clan and moved north and west. Once I killed the new clan's main army they had 3 provinces with hardly any defenses. I've got 11 provinces, and 3 single province vassals, and 3 trade ships. Now I have enough money to field nearly 3 full stacks of good troops. I only make about 3k a turn though, and I trade with everyone who I can and am not at war with. The Amako are at Kyoto, the Ito are still on Kyushu, the Takeda, Imagawa, Tokugawa, Hojo, and Kiso are fighting over the land between me and Kyoto. Shikoku is divided amongst 3. Looks like it'll be a huge fight between me and the Amako when we eventually kill off everyone in between us.
You really need to wait till the province you want is undefended because they've sent their army off or just got attacked, as otherwise you struggle to come up with sufficient troops with your limited income.
I must say though, my family has only 5 male members, including 2 adopted, for 11 provinces. And no generals. Haven't been able to adopt one for ages. I can't even distribute all the clan offices! All good so far, but it's a bit clunky at times. Scrolling around the campaign map is slow and difficult.
Gregoshi
03-20-2011, 16:43
I mean to feel a sense of accomplishment after conquering only 6 regions forty turns in says it all.
In my Mori campaign I have only 4 provinces and I feel the same way. I've a sense that I will not be uniting Japan under the Mori banner, but I think I've managed to earn a line or two in the history books and that is enough for this first campaign. :bow:
therother
03-20-2011, 20:51
I'm Shogun and have 52/60 provinces now, so will win soon. Just mopping up Takeda in the East. I'll be moving on to top level difficulty and see how I get on... Looking forward to it!:2thumbsup: I'm impressed. :bow: Thanks, was quite lucky a few times, and had more than a few sticky moments (including a very impressive long range, behind the lines naval invasion of Shikoku by Imagawa after Realm Divide). Plus I think Shimazu are easier than most.
My new Very Hard (non-legendary) Shimazu game is proving even more of a challenge, and even more fun, forcing me to be more creative. Was very hard pressed at the start: thought it would be easy to take Osumi and Hyuga from Ito as it had been in the normal game, but it was a real fight: had a fair few battles where I was badly outnumbered. Managed to finally finish them off, then started some diplomatic tricks to take Higo and Bungo: got the Shoni to cut ties with the Sagara, isolating them. Declared war, having positioned my main army offshore, poised to invade. The Sagara sent two armies south to attack Satsuma, leaving Higo relatively unprotected. I sabotaged the main army led by their Daimyo, landed my army on the beach just north of Higo. The 2nd smaller army moved to intercept, but I defeated them on the beach and took the town easily. The main army then turned into Rebels, which I destroyed a couple of turns later, when my reinforcements arrived.
In the meantime, my monk had been hassling Bungo, causing two uprisings. The first was defeated, but at a heavy cost. The Shoni appeared preoccupied with their war with the Ouchi, so no reinforcements came, and when I seeded a second uprising it was successful. The rebels, however, were easy pickings. I took the province losing a couple of dozen men. Doing it this way allowed my to retain my relations with the Shoni, giving me time to make preparations to blitz them with three armies, two from Higo to take Hizen and Tsukushi, one from Bungo to take Buzen. With my agents and ships spying on their armies, I waited until their main force was out of the way so I could sabotage it and then nip in and take their provinces. Worked a charm: took Hizen and Tsukushi without much of a fight, Buzen was more tricky but I won the battle. I could then concentrate all three armies on their main force, which was outnumbered 2 to 1, they were mostly Ashigaru whereas I had mainly Samauri. Wasn't a fair fight.
They still have a couple of stacks in Suo and Nagato, so they aren't beaten yet. Currently I'm building up my armies and consolidating my gains. My plan is to mount a naval invasion of Suo and take that for myself (has horse breeders: good cavalry), then try to make the Shoni a vassal in Nagato (although it's got good soil and a port, so not quite sure yet). I'll see what my agents can do about Iwami (gold) and Aki (Hallowed Ground: good monks) but then big campaign is to take Shikoku and use that to launch an invasion of the mainland near Kyoto (good monks and ninja around there!) plus a research bonus in Settsu. Now if only I didn't have work to do!
My first campaign was on Hard with the Chokosabe (please excuse my spelling of the Japanese names. My knowledge of Japanese history before the first World War is embarrassingly low) and I had to concede defeat fairly quickly. Like others, hard campaign AI is, uh, hard!
I'm trying again on normal with a different clan (who's name escapes me at the moment. The clan with the superior Katana's) and it seems like it could go either way at the moment.
All this brings up my biggest SP complaint so far: why is there no seperate option for difficulty between campaign and battles? Hard battles and normal campaign would probably be the perfect challenge for me at this point, since I have a far better grasp on the battles than I do on the campaign.
Gregoshi
03-20-2011, 22:28
Wozzle, according to Jack Lusted from CA, you can change the battle AI difficulty via the game setting once you start the campaign.
vladiator
03-21-2011, 01:44
Playing Shimazu on Hard/Hard.
Started with a war against a minor clan, Ito, and quickly took Osumi province. Soon, they were joined by Sakara (their ally) and Shoni (another clan on the same island, which attacked me, Ito and Sakara!), and I was soon fighting against three clans. Although I was winning battles, I could not take any other provinces. Shoni, another clan on the same island (or is it a peninsula?), was, however, more agressive than me and soon took over all provinces from Ito and Sakara, destroying them in the process.
Owing to Shoni's might, I thought it would not be prudent of me to continue fighting them. I offered them peace and trade agreement. Since I was actually winning battles against them and was giving them a lot of grief, and because they had another war going against Mori, they accepted my proposals.
So there I was, sitting with two provinces at the bottom of Japan, cut off from the rest of the world by mighty Shoni clan. For a number of years, I simply developed my provinces, my arts and my strength. I concluded a number of trade agreements, but had no allies.
All these years, Shoni's strenght have only been increasing. They were extending north and took a number of provinces from Mori. Their attitude towards me was "friendly".
Since they were stronger and more prosperous than me, I was a bit worried about attacking them. However, I finally saw my chance when most of their armies were committed against Mori outside my island (peninsula?) and their towns were left badly protected.
Hence, after all these years of waiting, I finally backstabbed Shoni by declaring war and taking Hogi. Unfortunately, I did not take advantage of their forces being so stretched and did not blitz through their territory. This gave Shoni time to destroy Mori and concentrate on me. We fought great many battles with great losses of lives on both sides. It took me many years to take another 3 territories from them.
By that time, 2 other minor clans ('minor' only in name -- their respective strengths are "terrifying" and "mighty") declared war on me. Not willing to be too stretched out, I offered Shoni peace, my alliance and trade agreement, and Shoni happily accepted it. By that time, Shoni lost almost all its territories, and only had 2 provinces remaining on my island/peninsula.
So far, I only fought 2 defensive battles against those new enemies, and I won both of them.
Everything was looking well, until Chosokabe, a mightly clan which was in war with Shoni, suddenly landed a full stack of troops on my island and destroyed Shoni in 2-3 turns by taking the remaining 2 provinces from them. At first Chosokabe were "very friendly" to me, but recently I received a message saying that it is possible that they will attempt to use my current situation and attack me. Their attitude towards me has changed to "indifferent", and I consider the war to be imminent.
So, it looks like soon I will be fighting against 3 very strong enemies. I need an additional army to fight Chosokabe, and I need to think hard about its composition (I looked at Chosokabe's full stack and it consists almost entirely of Bow Samurais). The future looks very uncertain and very interesting.
Oh, and I haven't lost a single battle in my whole campaign yet! :)
BTW, now is a year 1570.
Wozzle, according to Jack Lusted from CA, you can change the battle AI difficulty via the game setting once you start the campaign.
!!! Now that is good news! That is my biggest issue with single player right now! Yay! Still, not sure why they would hide it away, but as long as it's there. I'm off to change my campaign right now! Thanks!
Second campaign,
Shimazu on H/H
Took all of the island i start on, allied with chosokabe(sp) who own their whole island. took my war to the mainland, took out a few minor clans, kept spreading forward with some full stacks of upgraded units. conqoured all the way to kyoto, and took it im now shogun, bout 100 turns thru my camp, have like 25 provinces. its a domination campaign so ive still got a long way to go.
Im liking it very much so far, had my fully ranked up ninja assassin roamin the land slaughtering generals, and now im ranking up a metsuke who is 1 rank off max. i like that the agents change appearance, when they get to the higher ranks.
the main powers left in my camp, are me, the chosokabe, the hojo, the hattori, and the tuistuis( or w/e that minor clan is) im allied to hojo and chosokabe and havnt had the realm divide event yet.
i like the fact that the AI is much more open to negotiations if they are getting thouroughly beaten, altho this can be exploited. if found it was possible to declare war, steal a few provinces then get them to agree to peace a few turns later before they can muster any real force in opposition.
all in all tho im very happy with the game.
Naughtius Maximus
03-21-2011, 12:27
Won the game as the Tokugawa, summer of 1598. I have much to learn with this game; looking forward to some good reality-based mods.
I thought that the arts took too long to accumulate; I didn't even get to the point where I had Teppo Ashigaru. All in all, it was a very challenging campaign, even on N/N. We are pleased.
Won the game as the Tokugawa, summer of 1598. I have much to learn with this game; looking forward to some good reality-based mods.
I thought that the arts took too long to accumulate; I didn't even get to the point where I had Teppo Ashigaru. All in all, it was a very challenging campaign, even on N/N. We are pleased.
Did you try to get them, or just research everything in order? Aside from my 1st Mori campaign, I haven't had much trouble with arts research because I've concentrated on getting to philosophical traditions, though I should prioritize more in the future, like choosing between spear+siege+gunpowder path or sword+bow+horse path.
Naughtius Maximus
03-21-2011, 21:53
@Zarky - thanks for asking the question; I concentrated on chi arts @ first because some of them confer a research bonus to begin with; there is also the chronic food shortage I had to deal with before I could expand.
LeftEyeNine
03-21-2011, 21:54
Along with a question looking for your valuable input, here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?134018-Too-Slow)it is.
First true stab at a campaign was with the Hojo on H/N, after a few experiments with Oda and Date to get my TW sense back. (Note: I was bouncing back and forth between Hard and Normal battle difficulty trying to get a sense for how the differences play out. So far.. i haven't noticed much of one. At least in terms of decision making.)
Started out securing alliances with both Takeda and Imagawa to lock down my western borders while I dealt with the Ogigayatsu. With money rolling in from trade and a steady stream of recruits it wasn't hard to knock them out, but when I secured their last province (putting me to 3) i realized just how large my 'ally' Takeda was getting. He was already up to 4 provinces and was threatening war with the Uesugi. I'd need some support. The Satomi clan who were my trade partners, decided to make them vassals of the growing Hojo clan, only one problem. When i declared war upon them the Ashina, the Satomi's number one trade partners and the real power in eastern honsu, declared war right back.
The Ashina already held 5 provinces and had the muscle to back it up. Worse yet, even though I secured aid from the Takeda, Takeda Shingen was apparently in the midsts of one of his legendary fueds with Uesugi Kenshin, as Echigo was changing hands back and forth at rapid pace. I'd be going it alone. Thankfully I had a decent 3-star general who spear-headed the attack into Shimosa province. After an entire year's worth of maneuvering and battles I was eventually repulsed back to Musashi. The Ashina and Satomi pressed their advantage at the Battle of Edo in 1548. My general however proved the deciding factor and won the day with a rallying charge at the 11th hour. I was impressed and had my daimyo adopt him into the royal family. Hojo Ujitane, the hero of Edo. It took a year of rebuilding before my troops were ready to move out, back into Shimosa. This time I won easily, and after pushing further south I vassalized the Satomi. Though now I had a fairly big problem: Ashina. Even though i'd decimated their forces at Edo they were still the big dogs in east Honshu.
The Ashina campaign took a collected 4 years and 16 turns, providing back and forth fighting until I was able to get the upper hand near Tochigi, shimotsuke. The Ashina Daimyo fled north while I hunted down stragglers in my newly aquired province. During this time I also managed to head south to Hitachi, the town was left basically undefended thanks to the battles fought in the north and it was an easy victory. I didn't have the men to garrison the town effectively so I allowed the Satake to come back as my allies/vassals. I then marched north, however, my best general Hojo Ujitane had by now grown incredibly disloyal. 5 years of campaigning against the Ashina, taking orders from a far away lord who never ventured to the battlefield... he was growing restless. However I decided to let him have another chance. What a terrible decision.
At the Battle of Shimotseku fields in 1553, Hojo Ujitane betrayed his clan and joined the Ashina forces, taking with him fully half of the army. The veterans who had followed him through hell on the fields at Edo and Shimosa obviously feeling more loyalty to him than some far away Daimyo. They slaughtered my men and forced a route. Now I'm scrambling to muster a counter attack. It's doubtful I'll be able to save Shimotseku before Ashina Ujitane arrives. I'll likely force a confrontation on the bridge leading to Shimosa. A very fun campaign just got a whole lot more interesting... :sweatdrop:
Splitpersonality
03-22-2011, 00:04
Started as Shimazu, ended up using a system of alliances and trades with eastern clans, took over most of the west of Japan, and took a vassal of a clan right next to Kyoto. I'm sitting poised, attempting to scrounge up enough units/still be able to upkeep them, to be able to attack Kyoto. It's not looking good...
I'm about 50 turns or so in I believe...
Last night I finished my first campaign! Long campaign Mori N/N.
Nearing the end I was mostly rushing provinces to actually get to 40, because at some places I was facing large enemy armies with no chances of achieving peace with anyone anymore.
I was setting up quite many vassals, which seemed a logical step after about 20 provinces owned. But much to my dismay I noticed that my longest time vassal (since turn 20 or so) which had a full stack of units many of which katana samurai attacked my other vassals in adjacent provinces (acquired within 10 turns of 1st vassals betrayal), so I had to scrape up an army and beat them.
None of my vassals previously had indicated any interest to betray me so I want to know what kind of experiences do other people have with vassals. Have they ever betrayed you? And I was surprised that they were able to declare war on each other, since I was under the impression vassal could only declare war on his master. So can they declare war on other people, or just other vassals under same master?
I had an odd thing happen in my current Shimazu campaign. I am at war with two clans on the island you start on. One red and one white, I cannot recall the names. That I can understand. But I was sending two ships to explore the rest of Japan to discover new clans so I could trade and the like with them. Along the way I discoverd Imagawa. A small clan of three provinces far east of me. My enemies are not allies with him, I don't think they trade with him and our only interaction is a small fleet that passed by their coast. A turn or two later, he declared war on me! We don't share borders or anything! I found that odd. Finances are low at the moment and I want to avoid as many conflicts as possible. Bizare. He has no fleets near my small 3 province holdings either. None of my two trade fleets were molested as well.
LeftEyeNine
03-22-2011, 12:15
Don't worry, Imagawa have a habit of drinking themselves up to the point where they can't decide why they were there despite outnumbering you 1 to 10.
^^
Don't worry, Imagawa have a habit of drinking themselves up to the point where they can't decide why they were there despite outnumbering you 1 to 10.
Dumb ol Imagawa! I think I will plan a naval invastion when I become stronger just to get revenge!
Overconfident and beaten down as Chosokabe.
Started well by conquering my island - Then attacked Settsu and made the minor clan there a vessal. Really been using it as a test bed to figure out economy and the likes. Figured out how to boost my income up massively etc, then donated a load of money to the minor vessal clan - I think they were the Koto but don't quote me on that. Also had a 5 star ninja running about.
Was doing well when the Hattori declared on me, and they were based beside and north of Kyoto, so I attacked and did a lot of damage. Problem is now however that because my vessal clan went on a westward rampage taking out the Ouchi and Mori, the shoguns just managed to unite everyone except my vassals and the Shimazu (long term ally and trading partner) against me. The Hattori were my vessals in their last region but retook what they lost through sneak attacks when I was fighting the Tokugawa, so just down th my own island again :(
LeftEyeNine
03-22-2011, 13:55
Will it take time for us to figure out the flaws or the AI is quite challenging this time ?
Will it take time for us to figure out the flaws or the AI is quite challenging this time ?
I think the flaws of the Ai are pretty evident when they show up. One of them is that it's inconsistent, like i've said before. Sometimes it will throw away its cavalry on a suicide charge - other times it comes marching at you, rank and file, and it's pretty intimidating. Right now the AI isn't brilliant, but it's passable and provides a good challenge. If CA continues to fine-tune the AI post release maybe they can hammer out some of those oddities and make it even better. We'll have to see. :yes:
Ituralde
03-22-2011, 15:19
Just had my first AI glitches during a siege battle. After I repelled the initial waves of attackers the rest of the Takeda attackers just stood there. It was Naginata and Yari Samurai so they could have inflicted some damage on my Ashigaru centered garrison. I had run all out of arrows for my Archers too. But the enemy Damyo just hung back and his remaining troops let themselves be shot to pieces by my towers. Annoying.
Not that it's helping my campaign in any way though. I managed to defeat the Takeda, snuck by their main army into their last province of Kai. I also had my first Naval battles against Date where I successfully defended my trade spot with the Ainu. A Mogami army that was harrassing my main province was killed off, because the Date conquered their home province and I even pushed out and conquered Fukushima. That's when the Imagawa and the pretty numerous Tokugawa decided to attack me. Tokugawa snuck in through South Shinano and conquered North Shinano with ease! My newly adopted faction heir is besieged in Kai province and my Damyo had to leave Fukushima undefended to rush back to my mainland which is wide open to the Tokugawa troops in North Shinano. I'm 50 turns in now and convinced that I'll never make it to Shogun. I'll try to learn as much as I can during this playthrough though!
Will it take time for us to figure out the flaws or the AI is quite challenging this time ?
Like Monk said, inconsistent but certainly better than it's been for a long time. No more armies turning rank and file to completely face away from you. I see the biggest difference in the campaign map more so than the battles. Siege AI still is a bit iffy though.
@Zarky or anyone who knows,
Do vassals count towards your province limit? So if I need 25 provinces to win and have 23 but 2 vassals is that enough?
@Zarky or anyone who knows,
Do vassals count towards your province limit? So if I need 25 provinces to win and have 23 but 2 vassals is that enough?
Yes, I believe it's stated somewhere in game that vassals do count towards province limit and I've seen/had it work for me, they're good to make in some provinces just to get reliable trading partners late in game. I haven't tested if you can win if you make a vassal to a region you're supposed to own in order to win the campaign (like most neighboring provinces for any clan).
I'm just worried about vassal loyalty after Realm Divide.
Lord Benihana
03-23-2011, 18:55
I just got to the realm divide - I took Kyoto before the Shogun could call all of Japan to attack me... This triggers the realm divide anyway.
I really like how just as you start to roll (by taking Kyoto) the game gets really tough. I was making about $3K/turn with 2.5 armies roaming around and a couple extra food. Now I am pinned down Kyoto, have -1 food (damn citadel:furious3:) only have 1 ally (I had 4 allies and 1 vassal prior ro realm divide), and am set to make $151 next turn, so there is no way to replenish.
Having a great time, but I am a little concerned that I will have a setback on my way to get all 60 provinces... The Imagawa-Tokagawa empire is huge in my game
First campaign just came to an abrupt end. As stated above I'd lost a large invasion force to betrayal, those who stayed loyal were slaughtered and the Ashina had mounted a counter attack to support my betraying general.
I scrapped together as many troops as I could and marched out to meet the Ashina. As predicted I was nowhere near in time to save Shimotseku and I mounted by defense on the bridge to Shimosa. Outnumbered 2 to 1 I held fast despite mounting casualties, but it just wasn't meant to be. In desperation the Hojo Daimyo charged against the oncoming Ashina forces, even as his men struggled to hold the line. In an epic clash he faced the traitor, Hojo Ujitane in single combat.. and was struck down. With the death of their lord, what few samurai who had managed to hold broke, as did the Ashigaru auxiliaries. It was a massacre.
The following season Imagawa and Takeda, having sworn to an alliance behind the Hojo's back declared war, crossing the border and pushing south toward Edo. With a dead daimyo, defenses in tatters and war on all fronts, it looks like the Hojo's quest for the Shoganate has come to an end...
I really love this game. With the character development and loyalty systems the narrative almost writes itself.. :2thumbsup:
First campaign just came to an abrupt end. As stated above I'd lost a large invasion force to betrayal, those who stayed loyal were slaughtered and the Ashina had mounted a counter attack to support my betraying general.
I scrapped together as many troops as I could and marched out to meet the Ashina. As predicted I was nowhere near in time to save Shimotseku and I mounted by defense on the bridge to Shimosa. Outnumbered 2 to 1 I held fast despite mounting casualties, but it just wasn't meant to be. In desperation the Hojo Daimyo charged against the oncoming Ashina forces, even as his men struggled to hold the line. In an epic clash he faced the traitor, Hojo Ujitane in single combat.. and was struck down. With the death of their lord, what few samurai who had managed to hold broke, as did the Ashigaru auxiliaries. It was a massacre.
The following season Imagawa and Takeda, having sworn to an alliance behind the Hojo's back declared war, crossing the border and pushing south toward Edo. With a dead daimyo, defenses in tatters and war on all fronts, it looks like the Hojo's quest for the Shoganate has come to an end...
I really love this game. With the character development and loyalty systems the narrative almost writes itself.. :2thumbsup:
I loved reading this, thank you.
Games that make their own stories are destined to be winners in my heart. Part of the reason Civ 4 is one of my all-time favourite games is because of all the stories it's written for me. I have on game in particular, that I played years ago at this point, that has always stuck with me because the story was just so excellent. I'm more than willing to let Shogun 2 into that little club of games.
Now off to continue my second campaign. Not sure I'll win it, but I'm having fun and am ready to, gasp, crank this sucker to H/H for my next campaign!
Just made an epic mistake. After the realm divide, I wanted to pick at the edges of the massive alliance against me, so I ran around the diplomatic screen, tossing out gold and hostages to divide (and conquer). In the end I passed out ever under-ten member of my clan as a hostage to secure a bunch of ceasefires. Bad idea. Really, truly bad idea. Don't do this. Ever.
Every single ceasefire I secured has been broken. Every little girl and boy has been executed. I single-handedly wiped out a generation with my foolishness. Now I'm adopting generals to replenish the gene pool. Stupid lemur!
Chosokabe long campaign on hard.
So so, and then there appear to be two difficulty levels above that. :jumping:
The first runs were more focussed on 'browsing' around, than really playing hard. But still, the AI keeps you on your toes in the campaign and it's doing quite well on the batlefield too. I'm not uncapable on the battlefield, yet the autocalc is doing a better job at times. Finally, it got some nasty surprises in the combination of those two parts (maybe I overlooked something, but it pays to be really cautious).
Cautious, that's how I'm used to play these games. But the overdose I use, doesn't seem to work here. When I consolidate too much/long or forget about developping a branch, the AI is going to take advantage of that (that's how it feels). And I have to adjust my play style a lot.
I'm around 1570 now and I'm stuck with an ally on Shikoku who has a huge army in his single province, but hasn't assisted me in any battle despite numerous requests. A few years before that the Ito on Kyushu declared war upon me. Luckily for me they also got a run in with the Tuitsui during their attempt to get a foot on Honda. Luckily as their navy vast vastly superior to mine and my landforces were a bit too weak and scattered. So I got some time to build my own navy. The Tuitsui were very friendly towards me, they are strong and keep the Ito's busy. I assembled an army of ashi yari and yumi, complemented with three samurai and a young general and launched a naval in Ito's centre (I expected it would be their weakest spot). It was and I could also easily get the 2nd province, which split Ito's territory in two pieces. There was no serious Ito payback, what I overlooked though was that they were allied with Mori. It seemed an insignificant clan, surrounded by the powerful and ambitious Tuitsui. A probe on the landing army learned me that Mori was serious: three taisho and loads of samurai, mounted too. My army was a little bigger, but wouldn't stand much change against it because of it being 75% or more ashi. The Mori also had a huge fleet, choosing sea with my army was risky. To get something good out of the attack, I decided to move away from the Mori, to the south were Ito was and destroy as much of that clan as possible. Mori was on my tail to the south, but a small rearguard diverted them and my mainarmy could destroy Ito armies, once deep south I went north again with massive mountains between me and Mori. I looted another city of Ito, gained loads of money and could return to my homeland by sea.
The looting allowed me to finally construct a naginata dojo, as well as cavalry and samurai archer producing facilities. I used a few turns to rearange my invading army with tougher units and launched a naval on Mori homeland. That was succesfull too. The powerful Tuitsui there would probably not like me, so I also just looted the place and moved away. Back to Kyushu. The new army is too much for Mori and the last of Ito. Then the religion problem popped up.
Nice challenges. But then came a shock. I was thing I had to conquer the whole of Shikoku and 1-2 provinces in Honda to win the game before 1600. Upon checking the requirements again, I noticed 40!
Both Shikoku and Kyusha are poor, so I will develop slowly
I have religion and rebel problems in Kyushu
While friendly, Tuitsui is a huge and ambitious power, who's virtually everywhere on my 'border' and very close to Kyoto
It's way into the 70's, with only 100 more turns to go it will be hard to conquer 30 more provinces
To win the game, I have to get rid of the Sogo, the unhelpfull ally with the huge army near my homeprovince
LeftEyeNine
03-24-2011, 13:29
Hey, Tosa-sama. Nice story, especially your unintended looting run was definitely smart. :bow:
Having been playing on Kyushu for the 5th time, the best part of residing there is definitely the trade nodes comparably closer to you than anybody else. Especially two of them, being both sources of incense, are almost dedicated to who is living on the western part of the island. Hyuga is especially a great province, very fertile soil while the town is itself a choke point, making it a naturally-defended one. Higo is yet another rich one but more vulnerable to assaults whereas it's oddly bordered in the north by the province to its east and that makes step-by-step conquest harder.
Just made an epic mistake. After the realm divide, I wanted to pick at the edges of the massive alliance against me, so I ran around the diplomatic screen, tossing out gold and hostages to divide (and conquer). In the end I passed out ever under-ten member of my clan as a hostage to secure a bunch of ceasefires. Bad idea. Really, truly bad idea. Don't do this. Ever.
Every single ceasefire I secured has been broken. Every little girl and boy has been executed. I single-handedly wiped out a generation with my foolishness. Now I'm adopting generals to replenish the gene pool. Stupid lemur!
Yep, I did the same thing last night.
AI seemed more than willing to make peace and trade deals in exchange for a hostage.
Next turn the kids get the chop.
To top it all, I've now got a bunch of heart-broken generals as they have all seen their first born murdered.
Don't know if this is the AI being cunning and deceiving me, or a bit of a bug/exploit
Don't know if this is the AI being cunning and deceiving me, or a bit of a bug/exploit
I've now ran several times into a weird situation where some factions are LESS likely to accept a deal if I offer a hostage to them. And this sure is not because they intend to betray me, because it's very early in campaign.
Also, has anyone had "moderate" rated diplomatic deal pass? ever? without threatening? I can't seem to hammer out deal if they're just moderately likely to succeed.
I actually tried this by offering a trade deal, other party wanted money to sweeten the deal so I offered 250 which turned the likelihood of success to high, then I dropped the offer by 50 koku so that it became moderate and they turned it down...
The diplomacy sure seems nice, more reliable than in the past, but there are still some flaws...
Dead Guy
03-24-2011, 21:50
At this point in my Chosokabe campaign, I am Shogun and realm divide has been going on for a while. The biggest other clan is the Shoni, who has regions dotted about my lands on the main island and the western island. When they declare war (currently allies), I'm in for some major pain. As it stands now, I've formed two choke points southeast of Kyoto to wards the east, one in the mountains and one on the southern coast.
What annoys me to no end though is the AI's constant insistence on walking straight past my armies and going to some fort way behind the lines and take that. The most recent thing that happened to me was after I had advanced a region against the Tokugawa, then a full stack pops out of the forest behind me and takes the region I moved from. Argh. An Uesugi stack suddenly walked out of Shoni lands north west of Kyoto and laid siege. They don't have territory anywhere near that.
I guess the AI needs to cheat a bit, but how many stacks does it have? I've won solid victories time and time again against the very same clan, I must have killed off five Tokugawa stacks, but it does't feel like I'm getting anywhere, more full stacks seem to appear out of nowhere, and soon four more fronts are about to open up!
Whine whine... Anyway, I had the same pet peeve with Empire, armies frequently just ran around your army there too. I though Japans geography would limit this but it still happens. Got to spam more bow ashigeru I guess.
Gregoshi
03-25-2011, 08:09
My Mori campaign continues. I'm building up the economy and gradually increasing the army. A relative peace has reigned for several years. My staunch ally the Ouchi and I are in the process of carving up Kyushu from the belligerent minor clans (Shone, Sagara and Ito) who declared war on us. Shone and Sagara are gone. Ito holds 3 provinces but is weak and has no economy. Thanks to this situation, I have managed to grab 3 of the trade nodes off the shores of Kyushu, which has helped my bottom line. I'm bringing in about 3500 a turn, which is the best shape I've been in all game. Unfortunately that is just enough for one building upgrade and maybe a unit or two - depending upon the which building is being upgraded.
On Shikoku, the Chokosabi and Miyoshi have been idle for years. My major concern (and the Shogun's too) is the Asai. Though they are indifferent to me and we have a trade agreement, they dominate the center of Honshu with 19 provinces. The buffer clans are gone and I'm rubbing shoulders with a giant. Fortunately, they appear preoccupied with things to the east ("east" as in the way the campaign map is oriented). I'm also a little nervous about the Ouchi. They went Christian and our relationship went from "very friendly" to "friendly", they are as strong, if not a little stronger than I am, and my provinces on Kyushu is separated from my core group of provinces. Not the best position to be in should the Ouchi turn on me. Aside from the Asai and Ouchi, I'm concerned that I'm lagging behind in tech as well. But, hey, I'm still alive and kicking.
BTW, the Shone had captured the Black Ship. One of my fleets had the honour of fleeing from the Shone fleet of which it was a part. :bow:
Ituralde
03-25-2011, 10:51
My campaign continues to be a rollercoaster ride!
With North Shinano conquered my heartland lay wide open and Tokugawa took a second province from me: Hida. I hastily assembled some troops in Etchu province to act as a small deterrant, but shoudl Tokugawa come for me in froce my western holdings are lost. Meanwhile my Damyo enters North Shinano from the North and my heir repels an Imagawa attack on Kai. Another Imagawa stack is coming in from the South though and the Hojo joi in the fun by committing a full stack towards Kai themselves. My heir flees back towards North Shinano. Luckily Tokugawa has moved out from the castle in North Shinano to engage my Damyo in battle. The castle is empty so my heir strolls in with ease! My northern forces also manage to reclaim an undefended Hida. Next turn the Hojo take Kai.
Two steps forward one step back. Or rather two steps back. Fukushima has rebelled and the Shina have reappeared and taken the province from me. The Tokugawa main army is loath to engage me and moves east of the mointain range. We maneuver back and forth and I finally manage to defeat their army in an open field battle. Many Tokugawa leaders are slain and their grasp on their lands seem to falter. In the West my Northern Army took to ship and skipped over the rebellious Kaga province to claim the province south of it from Tokugawa. Seems like the force in Northern Shinano was their only strike force! Next turn they loose South Shinano to Kiso rebels and are eager to sign for peace.
With the Tokugawa repelled my Damyo can return to Echizen, just in time to repell an attack from the Shino, they have used their momentum to plunder my province. They only have ashigaru so my damyo beats them soundly in battle twice. The Hojo reappear in force from the South and have a huge stack aimed at North Shinano. What about my third enemy the Date? They seem to have had a change of heart and offer me an alliance out of the blue. I can't refuse such an offer and happily agree. One clan less to worry about for now. The Hojo bypass my army in North Shinano and go for my allies the Yamanouchi. They stand no chance and are obliterated!
I'm hanging on and make the best of the Date alliance to swing the tide of battle. My damyo pushes into Ashina lands and conquers Fukushima province. Luckily a large Hojo host is up north taking a province from my Date ally. My heir rushes from North Shinano all the way to Kai castle in one turn. Gotta love the strategist trait maxed out. My Ninja has shown me that the castle is undefended. Knowing I couldn't hold on to it I sack the province for 17000 koku. I'm RICH! The new cash helps me in finally upgrading my infrastructure. Next season my heir rushes back just in time to catch the Hojo army coming from the Yamanouchi lands. My damyo moves south and enters the Kanto plains from the East, while far in the West my former Norther army has swollen enough in size to take Kaga proivince from the Rebels.
So I went from being down to four province to being up to nine currently and I am poised to take over the Kanto plain from the Hojo. Their armies are scattered and their castles lie undefended in front of me. An alliance with the Kiso secures my southern border in North Shinano and I am ready to strike. Wonder what will go wrong this time, but somehow the title of Shogun doesn't seem that far away anymore.
phonicsmonkey
04-01-2011, 00:14
I lost my first campaign 12 turns in! Takeda on VH campaign, Normal Battles. First time I've lost a vanilla TW campaign since WRE in BI I think...
quadalpha
04-01-2011, 02:41
I lost my first campaign 12 turns in! Takeda on VH campaign, Normal Battles. First time I've lost a vanilla TW campaign since WRE in BI I think...
Hehe, that's brave. Right in the middle of the brawl on VH.
phonicsmonkey
04-01-2011, 04:13
Hehe, that's brave. Right in the middle of the brawl on VH.
I decided to go for the toughest option first up so I can see how much challenge there might be in the game. Actually I started on Legendary but restarted immediatlely when I realised I couldn't save inside the turn.
I am pleasantly surprised!
Ituralde
04-02-2011, 07:36
Seems like I'm on top for now. Increased my holdings to 14 provinces by sweeping through undefended Hojo lands. They tried to hold me back with a full stack of Samurai (Archer, Yari, Katana), but I was able to hold them off during a bridge battle where they got totally swamped. The Shogun is now irritated at me, which means that I'm already gathering forces in Fukushima for the eventual Date treachery.
The Hojo are down to two provinces, even lost one to rebellion. The Imagawa have taken Kai and together with the Tokugawa they are probably my next target. The other real problem is the Amakawa clan, which controls most of Southern Honshu and parts of Kyushu. Realm Divide will kill me, but it's not far off and I have only 8 more years to become Shogun. Serves me right for choosing a Short Campaign to get started!
phonicsmonkey
04-02-2011, 13:29
I lost my second campaign too - Takeda on VH/N again...20ish turns this time. I need to get a lot better at battles if I'm going to succeed with this one..
HopAlongBunny
04-02-2011, 19:14
Haven't lost yet! I simply re-started 3 times :p
Should be a ton of re-play value; different starting points => different threats=> different priorities
Present campaign might get finished; doesn't look like I'll win but no huge mistakes...yet :)
I actually lost a campaign. More like I gave up after realizing there's no way I'm bouncing back from this. And this was on normal!!!
Uesugi, the situation with all the provinces to my south was so messed up that I didn't have the guts to declare war on anyone there, leaving me with just expanding east/west options. This then backfired when I was declared war on and within 2 turns would have lost my capital and other most developed province.
Uesugi are really hard just for that you don't know where to expand with them.
Started my first game on Normal as Chosokabe. It's been pretty challenging so far. I took most of my starting island (with Myoshi reduced to a single province vassal and keeping Iwa as an ally) then invaded Kyushu, only to find a very large Mori was eating it from the other end. The Shogun decided Mori was getting too big and requested they be attacked, but I preferred allying with them to split up the Shoni...
So far I'm very impressed. Even on Normal the game has been a challenge from time to time. I suppose now I have to up the difficulty and try someone on the mainland.
Kagemusha
04-03-2011, 16:58
I actually lost a campaign. More like I gave up after realizing there's no way I'm bouncing back from this. And this was on normal!!!
Uesugi, the situation with all the provinces to my south was so messed up that I didn't have the guts to declare war on anyone there, leaving me with just expanding east/west options. This then backfired when I was declared war on and within 2 turns would have lost my capital and other most developed province.
Uesugi are really hard just for that you don't know where to expand with them.
As Uesugi i have come to a conclusion that you have to go after Takeda just like what happened in history. I have a campaign now going pretty well, when i dealt Jinbo quickly and then immediately turned against Takeda, while making alliances with Ashina, Mogami and bit later Ikko Ikki. If Takeda or anyone in the South grows too powerful playing Uesugi can turn into a nightmare. I have now destroyed Jinbo and Takeda, while Takeda destroyed Anegakoji before i could intervene. It was not easy to take out Takeda, but after destroying Takeda i secured an alliance with Imagawa and took Noto from Hatakeyama and destroyed Kiso while my allied Ikko Ikki declared war on their allies the Saito. Now i am balancing my economy with several options for invasions bit later.
As Uesugi i have come to a conclusion that you have to go after Takeda just like what happened in history. I have a campaign now going pretty well, when i dealt Jinbo quickly and then immediately turned against Takeda, while making alliances with Ashina, Mogami and bit later Ikko Ikki. If Takeda or anyone in the South grows too powerful palying Uesugi can turn into a nightmare. I have now destroyed Jinbo and Takeda, while Takeda destroyed Anegakoji before i could intervene. It was not easy to take out Takeda, but after destroying Takeda i secured an alliance with Imagawa and took Noto from Hatakeyama and destroyed Kiso while my allied Ikko Ikki declared war on their allies the Saito. Now i am balancing my economy with several options for invasions bit later.
I actually woke up early today and am now 70 turns or so into 2nd campaign as Uesugi. I allied Takeda and managed to deal with everyone around them, they got North Shinano and went to South Shinano and then west, eventually (with me pressuring them) declaring war on Imagawa and circling back to Kai from south.
Everything went fine so far, starting to enjoy warrior monks and then I realized that when Realm Divide hits I need to take North Shinano when Takeda betrays me and I'd only need to hold 3 choke points to prevent any incursions from west and defend 2 cities from Date who I probably could trust for a few more turns. Unfortunately my reputation was very near full and I started preparing for the inevitable, when my fresh puppet Hojo captures a rebel held province triggering Realm Divide (didn't know this could happen!!!) and then promptly declaring war on me... Of course Takeda join in on the fun and 2 turns later Shingen and 2 stacks with largely Samurai composition assault Uesugi Kenshin at Echizen. The battle could have been epic but it was just a massacre on both sides, yet the ending was obvious from the start.
I haven't had so much fun with a faction in any TW, ever. And these are from losing experiences. Hardest clan so far.
Uesugi are so complicated to play. Victory conditions point you south, wanting to fight a single front war points you to east before else and wanting proximity to Kyoto before Realm Divide points you to west.
On my fourth campaign now: Chokosabe H/H going for long victory conditions.
This was also the campaign i mentioned in another thread, and have shown screenshots about, but i haven't had the chance to talk about it much. Basically i wanted to try surviving a little longer than normal, and instead for pushing toward Kyoto and Honshu (after securing Shikoku) I decided to go in the opposite direction and subjugate Kyushu. It proved to be a very hard fought battle, not the least of which because nearly the entire island had converted to Christianity. Town by town Chokosabe Motochika converted the people back to the one true faith, just as town by town he liberated the island and added it to his own domain.
This campaign was relatively slow and reasonably entertaining. Once i'd managed to unite Kyushu I sorta felt like my daimyo was a bit of a hero. He'd driven gaijin influences from the Western Japanese islands and united the clans under his banner for the greater good. Food surplus was up to 12 and the Chokosabe enjoyed immense wealth thanks to their many trade connections - if you were a kingdom in the east that traded with Japan, you dealt with the Chokosabe. Motochika even secured an alliance with the powerful Oda daimyo, Oda Nobuhide, two years before the later declared himself Shogun and effectively brought all of the eastern clans under his control.
By 1570 warfare in the Japanese islands at ceased, but an interesting schism was emerging. Motochika ruled in the western islands from his capital at Tosa and held parts of the west tip of Honshu, there he had brought a number of clans under his protection who now served as his vassals. The Oda Shogunate had suceeded in bringing down every major clan. Except the Chokosabe.. in 1571 a dispute with the Hatorri clan lead the Chokosabe to declare war. At first the Shogunate supported Motochika's right of conquest, but as tales of the Chokosabe heroism spread through Honshu, whispers of jealousy surfaced in Kyoto. The Shogunate was unhappy with the control of the Chokosabe, indeed, he ruled nearly all of Honshu, why should Kyushu and Shikoku be different?
When the Chokosabe captured a number of hattori provinces in west Honshu, provinces which had long served as trading stops for Oda merchants, the Shogunate declared war on the Chokosabe, bringing with him his Yamana and Uesugi allies..
It's been seven years since the declaration of war and what started as a realm divide event has exploded into full on East vs West civil war. I'd love to claim that this has been one sided and i've been whooping Oda behind, but that just isn't the case. Fighting has bogged down in western Honshu between my alliance (Chokosabe, Oushi, and a few other small vassals) and those loyal to the Shogunate. Every time one side gets a big victory they capture 1-3 provinces, only for the counter attack to dislodge them and return to the status quoe. Thousands of samurai are dead in what is turning out to be the final culmination of the Sengoku Jidai.
Kagemusha
04-03-2011, 17:20
On my fourth campaign now: Chokosabe H/H going for long victory conditions.
This was also the campaign i mentioned in another thread, and have shown screenshots about, but i haven't had the chance to talk about it much. Basically i wanted to try surviving a little longer than normal, and instead for pushing toward Kyoto and Honshu (after securing Shikoku) I decided to go in the opposite direction and subjugate Kyushu. It proved to be a very hard fought battle, not the least of which because nearly the entire island had converted to Christianity. Town by town Chokosabe Motochika converted the people back to the one true faith, just as town by town he liberated the island and added it to his own domain.
This campaign was relatively slow and reasonably entertaining. Once i'd managed to unite Kyushu I sorta felt like my daimyo was a bit of a hero. He'd driven gaijin influences from the Western Japanese islands and united the clans under his banner for the greater good. Food surplus was up to 12 and the Chokosabe enjoyed immense wealth thanks to their many trade connections - if you were a kingdom in the east that traded with Japan, you dealt with the Chokosabe. Motochika even secured an alliance with the powerful Oda daimyo, Oda Nobuhide, two years before the later declared himself Shogun and effectively brought all of the eastern clans under his control.
By 1570 warfare in the Japanese islands at ceased, but an interesting schism was emerging. Motochika ruled in the western islands from his capital at Tosa and held parts of the west tip of Honshu, there he had brought a number of clans under his protection who now served as his vassals. The Oda Shogunate had suceeded in bringing down every major clan. Except the Chokosabe.. in 1571 a dispute with the Hatorri clan lead the Chokosabe to declare war. At first the Shogunate supported Motochika's right of conquest, but as tales of the Chokosabe heroism spread through Honshu, whispers of jealousy surfaced in Kyoto. The Shogunate was unhappy with the control of the Chokosabe, indeed, he ruled nearly all of Honshu, why should Kyushu and Shikoku be different?
When the Chokosabe captured a number of hattori provinces in west Honshu, provinces which had long served as trading stops for Oda merchants, the Shogunate declared war on the Chokosabe, bringing with him his Yamana and Uesegi allies..
It's been seven years since the declaration of war and what started as a realm divide event has exploded into full on East vs West civil war. I'd love to claim that this has been one sided and i've been whooping Oda behind, but that just isn't the case. Fighting has bogged down in western Honshu between my alliance (Chokosabe, Oushi, and a few other small vassals) and those loyal to the Shogunate. Every time one side gets a big victory they capture 1-3 provinces, only for the counter attack to dislodge them and return to the status quoe. Thousands of samurai are dead in what is turning out to be the final culmination of the Sengoku Jidai.
I guess you are playing sort of Segikahara campaign, the differnce being that not half of your "western" forces are not turncoats really loyal to "East".
I guess you are playing sort of Segikahara campaign, the differnce being that not half of your "western" forces are not turncoats really loyal to "East".
The historical parallels haven't escaped me and is half of what makes the fight against the shogunate so fun. ~D
I have the Realm Divide mod which softens the blow of the event, but pretty much all of my eastern allies (I was allied to Uesugi and a few minors) abandoned me. Likely because they didn't want to cross Oda, who was also allied to them also. It was like Oda sent a message when he declared war, choose your side! :laugh4:
Chimpyang
04-03-2011, 18:37
Date H/H campaign. I've got to the point where Useugi and Takeda are sending full stacks ever 2 turns to the 2 different stacks that I have hidden inside a fortress. Currently saving enough money for a 3rd stack so I can start turning the tide a bit, as right now it's just siege siege siege.
phonicsmonkey
04-04-2011, 01:31
Haven't lost yet! I simply re-started 3 times :p
to be fair I haven't seen the losing video either - I just quit when I believe the campaign is lost (ie. I have no troops left, just two provinces and massive stacks are coming from all sides)
Prodigal
04-04-2011, 07:16
Not officially my 1st campaign more like 3rd, but so far it's proving to be a hoot; Japan is utterly perfect for TW, it's like having a mass brawl in a telephone box. Finally went with Hojo, (only n/n), having to whack my 5 star gen. came as something of a horrifying shock, I've had my proverbial handed to me in a battle I thought would be a cake walk, held a castle against overwhelming odds, lost & regained territories, (not a biggy but can't remember it happening much in earlier versions of TW).
My only concern atm is that the clan's conquests have happened so fast that currently it feels like winning is simply logistics rather than any great challenge. Planning on restarting with a "hard" clan on h/h and see if that maintains the mid/late game pressure.
Load times aside, it's great, the AI seems immensely improved, lvl progression's a great addition, the constant twists in clan development keep me worried that a false move will wreck everything, and the diplomacy works.
All in all a very worthy successor to the original STW, they've not sullied its memory & that's about the highest praise I can think of.
The historical parallels haven't escaped me and is half of what makes the fight against the shogunate so fun. ~D
I have the Realm Divide mod which softens the blow of the event, but pretty much all of my eastern allies (I was allied to Uesugi and a few minors) abandoned me. Likely because they didn't want to cross Oda, who was also allied to them also. It was like Oda sent a message when he declared war, choose your side! :laugh4:
I am also playing the Chosokabe campaign (H/H) and I also first conquered Shikoku and then went west to attack Shoni and the others on Kyushu. It seems natural to secure trade nodes by going that way. Also, you can keep the two isles all to yourself without still triggering the divide.
After that, I started to go to Honshu and eat it up from the western end, only to stop right before the divide to gather forces and money.
I am actually liking the divide event. It gives you a new challenge once you get to be a major force. Without the event, I would just eat up all of Japan easily.
I already now have 130k koku and my income is 12k/season and the year is still 1568.
I kind of decided that 1570 is when I just go berzerk and start going for Kioto no matter what. I try to keep Date as my ally as long as possible (with diplomacy tech and payments) to keep a trade partner. Currently my army costs 12k/season and my tax is 13k/season, so I should be able to hold on long enough with my huge "slush fund".
I still don't have much of a defensive force on Shikoku, but I have slowly been importing matchlocks to get a cheap castle defense force to a few of the provinces, and I am prepared to move one of my three major armies (probably the ashigaru heavy one) to there if someone tries to attack me there.
Daveybaby
04-05-2011, 09:23
Just had the divide event on my second game (shimazu, hard, 40 provinces). I knew it was close, so i'd turtled up to reinforce my economy and troops before the onslaught. To my surprise it occurred anyway due to me winning a *defensive* battle. I'd assumed it was purely down to number of provinces owned but it seems there are other factors involved.
Happily my three allies (chokosabe, amako and mori) and three vassals decided to stick by me. There's about 120 turns to go and i've got 25 provinces (including kyoto) left to capture, should be doable, as long as my vassals dont get there before me.
Just had the divide event on my second game (shimazu, hard, 40 provinces). I knew it was close, so i'd turtled up to reinforce my economy and troops before the onslaught. To my surprise it occurred anyway due to me winning a *defensive* battle. I'd assumed it was purely down to number of provinces owned but it seems there are other factors involved.
Happily my three allies (chokosabe, amako and mori) and three vassals decided to stick by me. There's about 120 turns to go and i've got 25 provinces (including kyoto) left to capture, should be doable.
Heroic victories also contribute to your clan fame if i recall, although not as much as taking provinces.
Ituralde
04-05-2011, 15:16
My Uesugi campaing is nearing the end.
Despite loosing my home province and all may generals early on I have made a successful recovery. The Kanto is mine! After that I paused a little bit and tried to get my farm infrastructure going as I was raking in 4k a turn from trade. I wanted to have a good economy before Realm Divide hits. I couldn't hold off my offensive too long, as I could see the Hojo home province empty and the Imagawa lands undefended. I couldnt' resist and have torn through the Southern provinces all the way to Realm Divide!
My Date allies in the North are still faithful, but barely. I have an army in the region, which just conquered Sado. That gold mine, plus the one in the Hojo home province is financing my war efforts. My main enemies are the Shokugawa, which hold South Shinano and all the provinces between me and Kyoto, and the Amakawa, which control all of Western Japan except the islands. There some smaller clans are also busy fighting against me. I only need three more provinces including Kyoto. Hope I'll make it, before my undefended hinterland gets pillaged and burned!
I've been doing something interesting in my latest Hojo campaign. I wanted to maintain trade with some smaller factions but I also wanted to take their provinces. So, I have been using monks to incite rebellions and when the rebels take the castle, I then take the castle from the rebels. More territories and I maintain trade with the other clan. I've taken a number of castles that way thus far. Despite the success precentage being around 30%, they still seem to incite rebellions quite often. It might affect relations though, I am not sure, but most of the other clans are hostile toward me.
quadalpha
04-05-2011, 18:30
Only failed agent actions affect relations. It should be under "Sabotage Attempts" or "Hostile Agent Actions" in the diplo tooltip.
Nearing the end of my Chokosabe campaign. A hard push and a capture of Kyoto, back and forth fighting (kyoto exchanged hands 3 times) and my Daimyo is now officially Shogun. The Oda are reeling from the loss of power and are on their heels, scrambling for defense. Their army quality is steadily dropping as they lost the ability top field heavy hitters. I'm up to 37 provinces, 3 away from victory.
All i have to say is what a game. When realm divide hit and the game turned into East vs West I didn't think I'd ever be able to finish, we were completely deadlocked. However, a few acts of heroism from my generals, key assasinations, a well placed uprising from a Monk and a couple allied armies to my rescue gave me the upper hand. I really don't like using the word, but the only way I can describe the ending of the game is epic.
Tens of thousands of men died in the war for Kyoto, the heroes of the Kyushu campaign among them. Even Chokosabe Motochika was counted among those who fell. Oda Nobuhide and Nobunaga both met their ends in the disaserous war for control of the Shogunate. New heroes arose for the Chokosabe time and time again, even when things were at their darkest and i'd been pushed back three or four provinces, there was always a chance to rebound. My vassals even surprised me, riding to my defense numerous times when the fighting reached its apex around Kyoto and the former lands of the Asai. I even began to dread certain generals on the other side, trying to out manourver them rather than fight them. Osaka became littered with the dead, as I fought six battles near the city. I can only imagine that locals are now telling tales of the angry spirits of the dead, roaming the countryside at night and continuing the battle fought in life.
All in all.. i think i'll need a break from Shogun 2 once this is all done. Not because I'm tired of the game, but because this one campaign has given me so many vivid memories, i'd like time to reflect on them all.
I started as Chosokabe on N/N. I conquered Shikoku and then started with Kii on the mainland. I didn't know this at the time but that was a good choice since this area is one of the most fertile in the game.
I hit realm divide when one of my trade partners in southern Kyushu declared war on me and I started conquering their provinces. Eventually, I vassaled them, hit realm divide, then had them turn on me immediately. Everybody except my allies, the Shoni, turned on me. They had roughly 11 provinces and I had 2 stacks tied up on my borders with them for their eventual betrayal.
It was just a matter of slowly pushing east, consolidating, then beating the Shoni when they betrayed me. It also helped that the other power is the Date. They didn't bother me for a while after I beat the initial armies they sent after realm divide.
Right now, I'm just turtling at 59 provinces trying to fully explore the tech tree.
Leptomeninges
04-08-2011, 18:46
I'm really enjoying Shogun 2 also. This is my second try as Shimazu/Hard/Long and after a lucky set of AI decisions I was able to roll up the starting island and get a foothold on the mainland fairly quickly where the Mori and (green tree faction -- name forgotten) had split the peninsula along the mountain line. The Shoni have typically been a big headache in my Shimazu games, but in this case they inexplicably headed to the mainland leaving a Christian Sagara (they had conquered Bungo) to face me alone. Not sure why the Shoni never joined the alliance war unless the diplo hit from Sargera's conversion contributed to it. Regardless, the power vacuum allowed me to roll up the island and pick up all four trade resources. I was quickly running a huge trade surplus which allowed me to build big armies and upgrade the island's economy.
There were essentially two main alliance blocks in my game -- Mori/Green Tree in the south (the map rotation is confusing) and Jinbo/small clans in the north. These two blocs were linked together with a Mori/Jinbo alliance. Initially I ignored the alliances and declared war on Mori, but when my trade income fell apart, I selectively reloaded and noticed that the Jinbo were willing to abandon the alliance for some cash. With significant although reduced trade revenues still coming in, I stayed up until around 2:00 am last night and pushed to a Hoki/Aki line with some room remaining in my reputation bar before deciding that I needed to go to bed or I'd be a wreck today. My plan is to pick up Mimasaka and possibly Bizen also before declaring peace and turtling for a bit before realm divide.
I agree that realm divide is a little "gamey." Stopping conquest specifically to plan around it seems unnatural, but the mechanic has the huge saving grace of making the end game interesting which often disappoints in empire building games like these.
The far north (Date/Uesugi) seems to have really fallen apart. The provinces are rebel controlled (Jinbo is now rolling them up) but I'm not sure why they just disintigrated. Jinbo will be the big player in the north together with some medium sized factions (Hattori, Hojo, and a couple minor clans that expanded to 3-5).
Thinking of trying Uesugi next although I may not finish this game until later this weekend. The monk focus and complicated starting position seem interesting. I'd be very interested in any tips people have from their Uesugi campaigns.
The_Emperor
04-08-2011, 23:07
Hi guys.
I recently got the Shogun 2 bug as well.
My first campaign is Shimazu Normal and my god I feel like I have been away for too long, I started off strong taking out the enemy clan in the first few turns and then getting an economy going by pushing trade spots. Right afterwards the Sagara to the north allied with the Shoni in addition to me. Sadly war broke out between me and the Shoni and the Sargara chose to side with them. As you can guess my war economy has tanked while the Sagara has a very large stack within striking distance of Satsuma.
Doesn't bode well for my first try playing a TW game since MTW:2. :oops:
Welcome back The_Emperor. :bow: Good to see you posting again. S2 is a welcome return to form, yes?
Thinking of trying Uesugi next although I may not finish this game until later this weekend. The monk focus and complicated starting position seem interesting. I'd be very interested in any tips people have from their Uesugi campaigns.
Complicated doesn't say the half of it! But if you can survive those first few turns it becomes very interesting. Sadly i've not been able to make it out of the first 15 turns as Uesugi yet. A sad fact considering they are my all time favorite right back to S1.
I'm having a blast as Oda. I had an ashigaru fuelled breakout from the initial position. But then I ran into a lack of nearby enemies. Being a decent sort of daimyo, I did not want to start a fight for the sake of it with my amicable neighbours. So I sailed over to Bungo and Bizen to liberate a smith and a naval tradition province from an AI faction described as aggressive and ruthless (hey, it could not have happened to a nicer guy!).
It was a big mistake. I am now positioned like Takeda in STW1 - divided lands, with half my holdings in the west, half in the east. Realm divide is approaching and the prospect terrifies me. It's not a question of fighting a war on two fronts. It's fighting two wars, each on two fronts.
I'm trying to consolidate and also making a play for the trade nodes. I have three, which may not be smart given that Oda is probably the worst placest faction to hold on to them.
I have no allies, no financial surplus, almost no samurai.
But heck, is it fun.
The_Emperor
04-09-2011, 11:35
Welcome back The_Emperor. Good to see you posting again. S2 is a welcome return to form, yes?
Hey Monk, yes I agree it is a cracking return to form. Talk about a challenge, I went in half cocked expecting it to be like Rome or Medieval 2 without reading up.
I am going to try again with the Shimazu, I think I should focus on building a bloody good economy but I know that the Shoni and sargara can build up a decent sized force if left unchecked. (I guess their provinces must be rich)
Interesting stuff!
I'm having a blast as Oda. I had an ashigaru fuelled breakout from the initial position. But then I ran into a lack of nearby enemies. Being a decent sort of daimyo, I did not want to start a fight for the sake of it with my amicable neighbours. So I sailed over to Bungo and Bizen to liberate a smith and a naval tradition province from an AI faction described as aggressive and ruthless (hey, it could not have happened to a nicer guy!).
It was a big mistake. I am now positioned like Takeda in STW1 - divided lands, with half my holdings in the west, half in the east. Realm divide is approaching and the prospect terrifies me. It's not a question of fighting a war on two fronts. It's fighting two wars, each on two fronts.
I'm trying to consolidate and also making a play for the trade nodes. I have three, which may not be smart given that Oda is probably the worst placest faction to hold on to them.
I have no allies, no financial surplus, almost no samurai.
But heck, is it fun.
That sounds like some great fun Econ! Maybe offer up some gold in exchange for a few alliances to soften the blow of realm divide? If you can get one position decently secure you might be able to fight off the hordes. :yes:
Gregoshi
04-10-2011, 08:14
My Mori campaign slowly grinds on. I picked the short campaign and have 10 years, 10 provinces and Kyoto to go. Tonight I managed to get realm divide and I really sweated it out because of my Ouchi allies. They have been my ally from the beginning but have gone Christian and our relationship went from "very friendly" to "friendly" to "indifferent". Plus we share a rather awkwardly divided Kyushu - with me having the "awkward" part. Miraculously, they stayed with me along with my Chokosabe in-laws, so it is western Japan vs eastern Japan. In my first battle at the top of the Shogunate's "Most Wanted" list, I managed to snatch defeat fromt the jaws of victory defending in a bridge/ford battle. I mauled not only the whole army but my only heir of age.
Mori Daimyo "Capital" Takakage - son of the late Mori Motonari (KIA), younger brother of the late Mori Motoharu (KIAed with dad) and father of the very late adopted Mori Tomonari (KIA) - surveyed his three remaining generals. It pained him to think he'd have to adopt again but he had little choice if he wanted to insure the Mori clan's survival should he ever decide to step foot outside the capital of Aki. It was indeed getting dangerous out there. His eldest true son too far from manhood and too concerned with what is inside his nose to leave the clan to him. So that left him here, pacing back and forth, studying his generals. While the Mori Daimyo paced, the generals sweated. "Please, not me - I don't wanna die", was the mantra that ran through their head. That "honourable death" crap was for the common soldier...
I also fought a full fleet vs full fleet naval battle. What a mess. It was like a traffic jam and bumper cars combined and somehow in this fiasco I won an overwhelming victory. Go figure. I am presently rebuilding another large army for the meat grinder in the provinces around Kyoto. Oh, and Mori Amsterdam, er, Iemitsu was the unluck general to be adopted. He was last seen hiding in Kyushu...
The_Emperor
04-10-2011, 16:16
My second stab at a Shimazu campaign is going well.
I have just taken complete control of Kyushu, it was made easy by the sargara actually going to war with another clan nearby! I now have 3 of the main trade routes with a healthy stack of trade ships on each so money is flowing in. The trouble is diplomacy is awkward for me with so many clans being indifferent and also refusing to accept trade agreements. Still have more to learn but I seem to be in a strong position to expand.
So now I am pondering my next step.
My second stab at a Shimazu campaign is going well.
I have just taken complete control of Kyushu, it was made easy by the sargara actually going to war with another clan nearby! I now have 3 of the main trade routes with a healthy stack of trade ships on each so money is flowing in. The trouble is diplomacy is awkward for me with so many clans being indifferent and also refusing to accept trade agreements. Still have more to learn but I seem to be in a strong position to expand.
So now I am pondering my next step.
An invasion of Shikoku! :yes:
It'll be a hard fought campaign but if you can manage to secure the island, it's very easy to defend. Provided you have a strong navy of course. ~D
My Mori campaign slowly grinds on. I picked the short campaign and have 10 years, 10 provinces and Kyoto to go. Tonight I managed to get realm divide and I really sweated it out because of my Ouchi allies. They have been my ally from the beginning but have gone Christian and our relationship went from "very friendly" to "friendly" to "indifferent". Plus we share a rather awkwardly divided Kyushu - with me having the "awkward" part. Miraculously, they stayed with me along with my Chokosabe in-laws, so it is western Japan vs eastern Japan. In my first battle at the top of the Shogunate's "Most Wanted" list, I managed to snatch defeat fromt the jaws of victory defending in a bridge/ford battle. I mauled not only the whole army but my only heir of age.
Don't for a second think your allies won't betray you if you're not wholly ontop of it! Eventually, as you win greater victories against the Shogunate, they will come to fear your power and will strike! :yes:
Keep them happy with gifts, 500-700 koku per turn usually is enough to keep them from switching sides. If not then a half stack sitting on the boarder for insurance will go a long way, if they strike, you may as well be prepared.
Leptomeninges
04-10-2011, 18:54
My second stab at a Shimazu campaign is going well.
I have just taken complete control of Kyushu, it was made easy by the sargara actually going to war with another clan nearby! I now have 3 of the main trade routes with a healthy stack of trade ships on each so money is flowing in. The trouble is diplomacy is awkward for me with so many clans being indifferent and also refusing to accept trade agreements. Still have more to learn but I seem to be in a strong position to expand.
So now I am pondering my next step.
I may post an AAR when I'm done with my current long/hard Shimazu campaign. I've done several "sandbox-style" reloads trying different things and have a much better sense of what works as Shimazu (for me anyway).
As it relates to getting people to accept trade agreements, I'd recommend paying them. Sometimes their attitudes towards you will mellow over time and it's possible that they'll ask you for trade agreements that they won't accept now, but bear in mind that there is also an economic benefit also to having longer-term trade agreements as well as the opportunity cost of unused trade capacity. They may also get their own trade capacity locked up by smaller players if you miss your window. I'd just pay up front to get agreements with the bigger players.
As it relates to the question of "where to?" I'll offer the following two cents:
First of all, I'd try to maintain a land bridge to your expansion next expansion. Or minimally, you want a short naval hop. I think the realm divide is difficult with remote empire outposts.
The most important province types on the mainland are crafts and smithing. If you look at a resource map, you'll see that the developers likely agree. In distinction to other resource types which are scattered almost haphazardly around the map, crafts and smithing in particular have an almost geometric symmetry to their placement. There are two key reasons why these provinces are so important. One is that ultimately, these are the troop production provinces. And troops obviously win wars. The other reason is that these provinces will end up as defensive strong points by virtue of development. There is really no reason to build large cities in other provinces. You can't really build an, "economic powerhouse" city by making your castle bigger, and defensive cities built for no other purpose than to boast a large castle are typically wasted expenditures.
To sum up: you want to look at Bizen, Hoki, and Iwami (the greatest wealth capacity province in the game.) Depending on the length of the campaign you're playing you may or may not be able to get these before realm divide. In a long campaign (divide generally around 18 provinces) it's easy to get them all. In a short campaign (divide generally around 15 provinces) you'll have to develop a more creative patchwork of provinces.
Leptomeninges
04-11-2011, 00:34
In case anyone is interested, I started an AAR of my Shimazu game in the AAR forum.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?134534-Shimazu-Long-Hard-The-Iron-Dice-are-Rolling-A-Discussion-of-the-Strategic-Options&p=2053292713#post2053292713
Gregoshi
04-11-2011, 01:08
In case anyone is interested, I started an AAR of my Shimazu game in the AAR forum.
I've added a link to your AAR in the stickied Shogun 2 AAR thread. Thank you for doing this. :bow:
Leptomeninges
04-11-2011, 04:35
Thank you!
I posted a second installment. I'm certainly no Shogun expert, but I've had a fun game and it's enjoyable to play a bit of show and tell ;)
A few days ago I just won my first campaign (long H/H) with the Chosokabe. The endgame was pretty easy, although the beginning and just after the divide were a bit tough.
I managed to keep the Date as my ally for the whole game, which helped a lot since I could trade with them.
I am not sure if I can get the statistics back from the game, but I remember my total earned koku was about 3 million, of which over 2.5M went to unit upkeep :)
My final tax collection was around 27000 koku per turn, trade was something like 8k if I remember it right. I played the "surplus" tactic on economy, and my food surplus was 39 at game end.
Next I am going to play as the Shimazu and see if I can play without using too many archers. My "house rule" will be that I don't use samurai/monk archers at all, but lets see if that works out.
AussieGiant
04-11-2011, 08:32
I'm 50 odd turns into a Date campaign on N/N. I'm struggling. I just go beaten in a straight fight with a half stack on half stack open plain battle. My economy is only producing about 1000 koku per turn surplus. I have 4 provinces and about 4 trade agreements. I'm finding the sea battles easier than the land battles!! 12 years of a Total War games and I really feel like I'm missing something in how I'm handling the Clan!! :) LOVE IT!!
Ituralde
04-11-2011, 08:41
Don't worry about it. My first land battle on N/N with even numbers was an unmitigated disaster, which eventually cost me my home province. But I stayed in the game and am now on the cusp of grabbing the title of Shogun. Just hadn't had any time to play further yet. Love the challenge as well!
AussieGiant
04-11-2011, 08:56
Don't worry about it. My first land battle on N/N with even numbers was an unmitigated disaster, which eventually cost me my home province. But I stayed in the game and am now on the cusp of grabbing the title of Shogun. Just hadn't had any time to play further yet. Love the challenge as well!
Ituralde, good to see you again and thanks for the information.
GeneralHankerchief
04-11-2011, 09:10
I have a paper due in 7 hours. So naturally here I am talking about my campaign. :laugh4:
First one I took a crack at was a Hojo, N/N. About ten turns in and both my daimyo and general are dead. I now have zero army leaders. Didn't feel like waiting around and getting slaughtered, so I reset.
My next/current campaign is a N/N Shimazu effort that I went nice and easy with. Unified my island without any major problems, though I probably could have done it faster. Spent about 10 turns building up armies and I eventually made a simultaneous push to get a toehold onto Honshu as well as send an army out to conquer Shikoku. The good news is, since the Chosukabe were also making a push onto the mainland, Shikoku was relatively undefended and I was able to take several cities without much of a problem. The bad news is... the Chosukabe were focused on Honshu. After I took two of their Honshu cities, they sent this massive archer-heavy army out at me and summarily took one of their cities back without much of a problem, never mind that I had my highest-quality army inside that city. This was easily the worst city-defense loss I have ever experienced in my Total War career when I had some semblance of an army inside.
I was able to regroup and push the Chosukabe back, finally defeating them without having to face that super-army of theirs again. But that war was a costly one, and as it happens the last city I conquered was my 16th province, hence the Shogun finally getting fed up with me and declaring war. I now face a situation where all of Japan is bearing down upon on me, with slightly less than two battle-ready armies, and I still haven't even unified all of Shikoku yet. Oh, and my starting island isn't even a troop factory yet, because I set it up to be economy-based and that did me a lot of good considering how I'm only breaking even. This is going to be a grind, but I'm pumped for it.
...on second thought, I may just eschew sleep tonight and keep playing as soon as I finish that paper. :laugh4:
...on second thought, I may just eschew sleep tonight and keep playing as soon as I finish that paper. :laugh4:
Just like the old days huh? That's the spirit! :thumbsup:
Don't worry about it. My first land battle on N/N with even numbers was an unmitigated disaster, which eventually cost me my home province. But I stayed in the game and am now on the cusp of grabbing the title of Shogun. Just hadn't had any time to play further yet. Love the challenge as well!
Heh, i'm almost afraid N/N will feel too easy after so long on H/H. I dont want to lose that intense challenge, but i just might have to downgrade. Some of the eastern Honshu clans are down right murderous in difficulty.
Not my first campaign, but the first to get anywhere. After having one game where I ran out of time while being nowhere near becoming Shogun (Chosokabe N/N), a couple non starters (Oda and Date, the latter on H/H, not sure about former's difficulty) I started with the Hojo on N/N. It's been a bumpy ride. After some initial expansion against minor clans (and an alliance with the Togugawa and Takeda) I ended up way over my head in a war against two of the northern minors, having to pay a hefty tribute to keep from being destroyed. One of those minors then proceeded to be cut apart by the Togugawa and Takeda, and after a hostage I sent the minor had returned, I grabbed a few provinces off of them.
Since then I've been laying low, getting provinces when I can and trading as much as I can (although I only grabbed two nodes in time). Twice I've been threatened by much bigger clans. First the Tokugawa (who paid for their treachery when they gained a few two many enemies) and much more recently by the Hattori who had replaced them. I ground a couple of their armies against my castles (with very heavy losses) and managed to take territory from them and secure a favorable peace deal.
Here's a slightly out of date map. I now also own the two Hattori provinces west of my border with them. I'm at 12 provinces and starting to worry about the Realm Divide. I've only managed so far because my enemies have bitten off more than they could chew. If I hit the Realm Divide anytime soon I'll be in trouble, being surrounded on all but my sea side by large clans. I also made some early mistakes. I didn't get most of the trade nodes in time and I built up my castles not thinking of how important surplus food was. Right now I have no surplus and I'm working on researching terraced fields, and trading with almost everybody while I prepare.
https://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2993/hojomap.jpg (https://img194.imageshack.us/i/hojomap.jpg/)
Most frightening surprise of the game: When the Hattori first went to war with me they struck at one of my vulnerable provinces behind our border. Not by sea (although I've seen AI factions do that to eachother this game) but by marching right around my heavily defended border castle. I was barely able to hold them off (their army was high on yaris, low on bowmen) but it was quite a shock.
Most pleasant surprise so far: I had a Daimyo's widow as regent for some time and didn't think anything of it. Finally, when my best general was getting delusions of grandeur and his loyalty hit rock bottom I decided to name him heir. Instant Daimyo with honor through the roof from so many heroic victories. Most of my generals are above full loyalty now and Daimyo honor is +4.
Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout
04-13-2011, 12:05
I've had the most epic campagin ever,playing as the Takeda on H/H.
Right now,I've conqerued all the lands,well Kyoto is in my hands,Uesgai are gone,Noto,echizen,and many others are now under my rule,But I need help,My allies the Hojo dont like me,since they destroyed my enemies the Date,and they will declare war on me,and take my provinces,I dont have enough armies in Kai and other places,And the imagawa are crushed by The Tokugawa,Whom I have been winning battles excellently,could someone help me out here?
Leptomeninges
04-13-2011, 19:29
I started a Uesugi VH/VH/L game over the weekend and pretty much stopped playing my Shimazu H/H/L game. Mopping up the victory provinces got boring once I had realm divide under control. The Uesugi campaign has been pretty crazy so far. If it starts to seem like I have a shot at a win or even if it just maintains its current interest level for a while I may post an AAR. It has been a wild ride. Unfortunately work is busier than ever and is putting a serious crimp on my gaming time!
I started a Uesugi VH/VH/L game over the weekend and pretty much stopped playing my Shimazu H/H/L game. Mopping up the victory provinces got boring once I had realm divide under control. The Uesugi campaign has been pretty crazy so far. If it starts to seem like I have a shot at a win or even if it just maintains its current interest level for a while I may post an AAR. It has been a wild ride. Unfortunately work is busier than ever and is putting a serious crimp on my gaming time!
Ah a shame! In any event, looking forward to hearing more about the Uesugi. I've not had the courage to make it out of turn 10 with them yet. Hopefully you've done much better than I :laugh4:
Right now,I've conqerued all the lands,well Kyoto is in my hands,Uesgai are gone,Noto,echizen,and many others are now under my rule,But I need help,My allies the Hojo dont like me,since they destroyed my enemies the Date,and they will declare war on me,and take my provinces,I dont have enough armies in Kai and other places,And the imagawa are crushed by The Tokugawa,Whom I have been winning battles excellently,could someone help me out here?
Sounds like a great campaign Takeda, don't think you require any help at all!
Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout
04-13-2011, 22:10
Ah a shame! In any event, looking forward to hearing more about the Uesugi. I've not had the courage to make it out of turn 10 with them yet. Hopefully you've done much better than I :laugh4:
Sounds like a great campaign Takeda, don't think you require any help at all!
You dont understand,the Hojo rule a vast amount of land,Date is destroyed,Kai does not have enough armies,neither does Shinano province.
How to face the Hojo,I dont know..
I'll get a screenshot to show you,once I know how to put it here
GeneralHankerchief
04-14-2011, 07:15
Update on my Shimazu N/N effort: The grind is finished. Kyoto was taken on Turn 103; the game ended on Turn 107. This was a short campaign, mind you. Basically I just kept hammering away - take a province, hold it, bleed out the nearest enemy, resupply, and then move forward one province. Repeat as necessary. Eventually I was able to get financially above water enough to construct a third army, and I worked it so that all three armies would converge upon Kyoto for the final battle. It was... really bloody, to say the least.
I aim to put this campaign very much behind me - if I can barely survive a short campaign on Normal difficulty with one of the easiest factions in the game, it's clear that I have a bit of work to do mastering this game. :laugh4: May start my next campaign with a more centralized province.
jackie_fish
04-14-2011, 14:22
my first campaing was on vh and i was out within the 15 turns was expecting the new Ai but now i have come to learn more about it, its not so hard
Azi Tohak
04-14-2011, 15:34
Kicking ass and taking names, playing as the Shimazu (N/N). I did my homework before the game so I know the importance of farms, and I've never been in negative revenue. Realm Divide surprised me with when it hit, but thanks to the few turns it took for it to matter, I was able to prepare. The Mori finally stabbed me in the back by attacking one of my vassals, but I've been crushing them ever since, with two and a half full strength field armies in and around Owari keeping the Takeda at bay. I haven't taken Kyoto yet, but I will soon. I love it.
My Oda campaign is progressing well. Realm divide broke out with my realm scattered into three parts - the main part centred on the Oda heartlands, a coastal strip covering the old Mori starting area (wanted a smith) and a toehold in the Shimazu starting province (got a mission to beat up Christians and anyway wanted a port to help secure the trade nodes there). I wasn't sure I could survive with such a ridiculously divided realm, but it looks like I may.
In part thanks to monks fermenting unrest, Kyushu is neutralised and my army there is trying to backfill west from my holdings of previously Mori lands.
Enemy armies are rampaging around my central homelands, but not in large stacks yet. The eastern tip of those lands - the gold rich Izu - heroically held, leading to a peasant joining the ranks of my generals, and I will retake my Confucian academy at Suruga.
But the flashpoint is just west of Kyoto. Three Ashina armies are besieging Settsu, defended by a full stack of peasants and a 5 star general of questionable loyalty. He is a night fighter and I have a mission to beat the Ashina daimyo in battle, but even if my peasants can attack and defeat his Samurai in open battle (highly questionable), they won't be enough left to hold Settsu against the other two stacks. My Daimyo's army is also west of Kyoto, but has been conquering the provinces north of my coastal strip. He probably should turn south to try to get to Settsu but I am not sure he will make it. If not relieved, it will fall in two turns.
This is the best single player TW campaign I have ever fought - normally, I give up mid-game as it gets too easy and/or tedious.
HopAlongBunny
04-15-2011, 17:43
First Black Screen o'Death.
2 full stacks of mine vs a half stack of foes + a "surprise" half stack of reinforcements.
First off, what a mess! I've got so many Icons on the bottom of the screen that they are meaningless.
I move my first army; grp and start my second army in motion; all good so far. Some of mine appeared on map but not in my organizing space, nm click on them grp them, when i let game run again => BSD; first time with that on a TW title.
Just as well in any case...I hate large battles :p
Ituralde
04-16-2011, 10:02
Sounds like you're having a blast econ21. How did you manage to get so many diverse and interesting missions. I can't remember when I got my last one in the current campaign. I think it was in the beginning and asked me to conquer any province. Maybe they'll crop up more often in a Long campaign. I'll find out once the Uesuge have become Shogun!
Azi Tohak
04-17-2011, 18:20
First campaign was really easy. The 2nd has been a real pain. I didn't blitz fast enough to conquer Shikoku quickly and the Sanuki tribe gutted my clan, killing my Daimyo and another general in open battle. It's been hard, but rewarding.
Ituralde
05-20-2011, 08:32
For those interested. I finally finished my very first campaign!
Yeah I know, RL is a b**** and I got sidetracked a little by playing Multiplayer instead of finishing up my campaign.
In the end it was quite easy to conquer Kyoto. My earlier investment in infrastructure had paid off and I was making 3000 to 5000 koku while maintaining roughly four decent armies. The Date betrayed me in the end, but since I had prepared for it I could hold them in the North. The Ashikaga were helpful enough in attacking my besieging forces, so that I met minimal resistance when finally conquering Kyoto. The following year saw three defences of Kyoto, but nothing serious.
Liked the end movie by the way.
Now on to my Chosokabe campaign. Only question remaining: Hard or Very Hard Difficulty?
Congratulations on the victory, Ituralde!
In the end it was quite easy to conquer Kyoto. My earlier investment in infrastructure had paid off ...
Yes, my first campaign (Oda) ended similarly - because I had spent quite some time with my empire just below the realm event trigger, building up infrastructure, I could ride it out surprisingly easy. Only a strong faction near Kyoto was able to challenge me with about 4 full stacks grouped together but having a night fighter general and using ninjas sabotaging armies, I was able to dismember the army group. I think it would have been much more challenging (probably impossible) if I had not paused prior to realm divide as my lands were very disperse and my military small.
The conclusion was a little anticlimatic, as I had Kyoto and almost all the provinces I neeed, was militarily supreme in Japan and thought the game over. But then incrementally, my new (post RD) vassals started defecting and my ally Chosokabe turned on me, so my provinces started slipping through my fingers. My armies had to run round Japan stamping out fires, rather than waging war and I confess I started to autoresolve to get to see the end movie. (I do like how autoresolve seems "fair" this time and not punitive on the player.)
Now on to my Chosokabe campaign. Only question remaining: Hard or Very Hard Difficulty?
I feel I have to go to VH campaigns but confess it seems too daunting for me as Takeda (the faction I want to try next). However, I've been inspired by S2TW to try to get RTW and M2TW working on my new computer (one with Windows 7) and finally managed it (installing outside of program_files and cleaning the registery of failed installs seems to have been the key), so I am now distracted by EB. (That mod used to CTD too much for me, but my new computer seems to have solved that as well as get rid of the slowdown during the AI turns.) I will have to man up and get back to STW2, but my heart will always be with the Romans.
thirdangletheory
05-30-2011, 17:28
Playing N/N with the Shimazu. I took the province directly east of me like my advisor recommended, though I was bloodied a bit more than I'd have liked. Spent several turns rebuilding my forces, training new soldiers for a further push into Ito lands to the north, and encouraging my economy. Got a couple of trade ships going but was a bit suprised that the port directly to my south was already claimed by another clan located somewhere to the center of the Japan. Ito counterattacked during this downtime which increased my retraining time slightly but they were easily defeated. Eventually, I was ready to conquer Ito once and for all and started marching north. About halfway there the province I was marching on was captured by another clan to the north and my forces were sent back to my territory.
Now I had a choice: declare war on this new clan (who were ambitious and unfriendly, according to their info panel) or continue to build my forces. My economy was decent, however the fairly large army I was fielding drained a significant portion, so I decided to put them to use. Unfortunately this new clan was easily able to defeat my forces during the resulting seige, and I am stuck with just 2 provinces, and army in shambles, and an aggressive clan to the north. Not a good situation.
I think I will restart the campaign and be a little more aggressive with Ito instead of holding back for so long.
Gregoshi
05-30-2011, 17:59
Don't give up thirdangletheory! See if you can salvage the situation. Just think how glorious the campaign victory will be if you can turn things around. :bow:
thirdangletheory
05-31-2011, 02:53
Thanks for the encouragement. I'm still learning Shogun 2 and some of the replies in this thread seem to indicate expansion is a lot harder in this game than others in the series. I would probably learn the most if I just sit down and power through it. Maybe some browsing of the strategy section would help too. :)
Gregoshi
05-31-2011, 04:06
That's the fightin' spirit! :boxing:
Well, my first campagin was as the Chosokabe, N/N. It went well and it didn't take me too long to conquer the island I started on and a few provinces on the mainland. Then I got this crazy idea to build up castles and to build a large army to march on Kyoto. Who said that doing that with only 6 or 7 provinces is a bad idea? I never got to it, since all my provinces started to rebel, because of lack of food. Apparently, the bigger the castle, the more food needed. I was broke, my large army was expensive, so no money to build farms. In short: I wasted a lot of time. I could have disbanded about half of my armies, oppress the rebellions and slowly started to build farm upgrades, but I didn't want to go through the hassle, so I started again as the Date.
So far, it has been great fun. Early on, I lost my daimyo and all my generals, except for one brother (my best general) in an epic battle against a minor clan (Satomi?). My daimyo's wife became regent. The one remaining brother had "delusions of grandeur", so I decided to send his army to finish of those Satomi. He was seriously outnumbered, but managed to win the battle. He died an heroic death. That'll teach him! Delusions of grandeur, ha!
After that battle, I got a message that some low samurai had distinguished himself and blahblahblah. I promoted the man to general and he conquered province after province for the Date clan. In the meanwhile, I got opportunities to hire some more generals. The late Daimyo's son still didn't come of age when he was 19. His mother was doing a great job and managed to establish peace with all clans and to form an alliance with the Takeda, the Hojo and a minor clan (Sagetake?). The Hojo broke their alliance and I used the opportunity to declare war on them and to destroy them (and to take that province of theirs with that shiny gold mine). The general leading the campaign against the Hojo was again the man who started as a low samurai.
Then I remembered how Toyotomi Hideyoshi took power after his master Oda Nobunaga had died and I figured, why not do something similar? The low samurai who got promoted to general when our clan was without leaders, was now a four star general. Half of my empire consist of provinces conquered by him. I made him my heir and he instantly became the new daimyo. Thanks to his 4 command stars, he has high honour and my generals suddenly became much more loyal.
I'm now very close to the Realm Divide event and am building up my armies and developping my provinces how I want them to be.
If things go well, the former lowly samurai will soon become shogun.
I've never written an AAR, but this campaign has been so interesting with lots of drama, that I might write an AAR about it one day.
A pity RL doesn't allow me to play more. It's been ages since I've had so much fun with a game.
:2thumbsup:
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.