View Full Version : Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion
General discussion goes here, also notes about update releases etc.
(This has been the thread starting post, which is now a sticky single post; many in this thread included posts have been moved by me in the meantime to the separate threads).
Damn, this is extreme hard stuff now, 2nd trial with Shimazu H/H fails, have to give up :( ... didn't happen with the basic S2R ... i think i need to lower the campaign challenge/difficulty somehow for the human player on H/H, i'll think about some things.
1st post updated with a slightly softened version 1.1, alternative, for the ones who find it too hard currently on H/H. Edit: Removed the v1.1 update file. An update will some time later.
Edit: Wow, i discovered a strange vanilla bug. I thought my update v1.1 is somehow buggy, but then i had the same symptom with the former version, with older versions ... and then also with vanilla.
The bug is: Playing Shimazu, 1st turn, going to fulfill the mission to capture the neighborhood enemy settlement which has a little army outside of the settlement ... if you position your Shimazu army so that you can just see this army and click on it to look at it, the game crashes ... also with vanilla (only one trial worked, but from 10 trials it is one that does not crash). I formerly modified the v1.1 to see if it makes a difference etc., diverse things, then also verified the gamecache via Steam. Nothing solved that crash.
@Da Vince: excellent mod, i really like the non-tech requirement for samurai recruiment...AI stacks seem to be a bit more balances.
however, i got a couple of question:
1, how to increase the cap for samurai and bow ashigaru. For example, about 50 turns my H/H Oda campaign, the unit cap for bow ashigaru, bow samurai, naginata sam., horse archers, yari sam. are 3,4,2,2,2.
Isnt it supposed to be 10 for each kind of samurai? Either building additional dojos or upgrading current ones doesn't help
2, why naginata monk cavs have +7 bonus vs cavalry? They are already good at melee. Can you please explain this?
Other gameplay mods I'm using: UAI, realm divide, double prestige
@Da Vince: excellent mod, i really like the non-tech requirement for samurai recruiment...AI stacks seem to be a bit more balances.
however, i got a couple of question:
1, how to increase the cap for samurai and bow ashigaru. For example, about 50 turns my H/H Oda campaign, the unit cap for bow ashigaru, bow samurai, naginata sam., horse archers, yari sam. are 3,4,2,2,2.
Isnt it supposed to be 10 for each kind of samurai? Either building additional dojos or upgrading current ones doesn't help
2, why naginata monk cavs have +7 bonus vs cavalry? They are already good at melee. Can you please explain this?
Other gameplay mods I'm using: UAI, realm divide, double prestige
Thanks for playtesting. I would be interested how you get on with Oda on H/H, with mentioning the year etc. circumstances, can you reach the campaign goals? How are doing it the other major (AI) factions?
Important, because i would like to know, if my v1.1 changes (on parking now: making it slightly easier money-wise) is necessary or not for the general balance of the campaign on H/H.
Also, please start a next campaign without the UAI, because my goal is to have it properly without that extra mod, and anyway including CAI files as well (one which gives recruitment priorities is in S2R(+) contained).
Else, i have capped Samurai recruitment differently from the basic S2R setup, what you get now is what you can get in S2R+. This design is in my opinion more realistic, than to have 10 Samurai per type available, Samurai were just rare for the period and became more rare towards the end of the period due the losses*, so Ashigaru replaced their "positions", and also should prevent the human player from spamming them and exploit it vs. the AI which is steered to a degree by the CAI recruitment codes.
However, the main backbone of the Senguko armies should be the Ashigaru Yari guys, which have the chance to become more performant during the campaign with collecting exp due to battle and due to gameplay exp boni additions. There for also the other Ashigaru types (Yumi, Naginata and Sword) got certain roles/stats and caps. The Samurai should present your rare but precious elites, and the more the campaign advances the more you should rely on Ashigaru, if you expand with your realm, because you must govern/control more lands. This is then historical realism reflection for the campaign towards the end of the period.
As for the +7 cav bonus i'll look into it, anyways naginata gives cav bonus, it is a weapon both for inf and cav combat, it is a polearm, and in the case of warrior monks, they are just elite warriors, have to change that if they are completely imbalanced though.
* Ie. more realistic would be to have a quite good amount of Samurai's at the start of the campaign, then only very very rare reinforcement Samurai recruitment, which vanishes then towards the end of the campaign completely, latest at about 1590-1600.
Hi DaVinci:
I appreciate your mod or more precisely your more realistic approach to early samurai recruitment. Feels much better.
I am currently playing Oda on M/M (as I always do). Though this is not H/H, as you required, I can say that an early peace offer against the Satai(?) really pays off.
Cheers
Notger.
Edit: Are there different unit caps representing different tactical inclinations of the factions? There was a great post over at twcenter, where the army composition of different daimyos was stated (you sure read it ... you answered to it ;) ) and the differences were enormous. I would love to see that in-game, too, as long as it does not destroy flexibility. (Possibly via mutually exclusive research paths, that let you chose your style?)
1.
Thanks for playtesting. I would be interested how you get on with Oda on H/H, with mentioning the year etc. circumstances, can you reach the campaign goals? How are doing it the other major (AI) factions?
Important, because i would like to know, if my v1.1 changes (on parking now: making it slightly easier money-wise) is necessary or not for the general balance of the campaign on H/H. Also, please start a next campaign without the UAI, because my goal is to have it properly without that extra mod, and anyway including CAI files as well (one which gives recruitment priorities is in S2R(+) contained).
I made a peace treaty with saito in the 1st turn, then gradually expanded around the owari area. By 1557, I have 13 provinces, all around kyoto and owari (not including kyoto itself) plus those that origionally belonged to tokugawa and imagawa. I allied myself with hojo and takeda, who also control 7,8 provinces apiece. My vassal Sakai also have like 4 provinces above Kyoto. I control 5 outa 6 trade nods, captured the black ship and having net income of like 9k/year. I could easily win the campaign if I continued playing it.
Overall, I just find it just slightly harder than my Hojo campaign with S2R .311 cos the AI stacks now seem to have at least like several samurai/cav units rather than all ashigaru. Also, money is a bit easier now (dont exactly know why, probly cos you dont have many samurai units as before)
Else, i have capped Samurai recruitment differently from the basic S2R setup, what you get now is what you can get in S2R+. This design is in my opinion more realistic, than to have 10 Samurai types available, Samurai were just rare for the period and became more rare towards the end of the period due the losses*, so Ashigaru replaced their "positions", and also should prevent the human player from spamming them and exploit it vs. the AI which is steered to a degree by the CAI recruitment codes.
IMO, the cap is fine if you only have like 3-4 province and one stack, but as you expand and have multiple stacks, the fixed cap is a bit annoying cos you still only have 3 bow ashigaru, 4 bow samurai, etc to spread out between your stacks. As a result, if you have like 4 stacks, your army would mostly consist of yari ashigaru plus about 3 samurai units, maybe matchlock ashigaru as well cause they are fairly easy to recruit now.
Personally, I'd like the cap gradually increases as you expand (such as by building additional dojo or upgrading current ones, or by increasing prominent level so if you become the shogun you can have like 10 or maybe like 6,7 units of each samurai types)
Hi DaVinci:
I appreciate your mod or more precisely your more realistic approach to early samurai recruitment. Feels much better.
I am currently playing Oda on M/M (as I always do). Though this is not H/H, as you required, I can say that an early peace offer against the Satai(?) really pays off.
Cheers
Notger.
Edit: Are there different unit caps representing different tactical inclinations of the factions? There was a great post over at twcenter, where the army composition of different daimyos was stated (you sure read it ... you answered to it ;) ) and the differences were enormous. I would love to see that in-game, too, as long as it does not destroy flexibility. (Possibly via mutually exclusive research paths, that let you chose your style?)
I know which post you mean. I'll look into this some time in future, and might reflect something of this layout, but then i have to judge on the impact on the AI and gameplay, i'll see.
1.
I made a peace treaty with saito in the 1st turn, then gradually expanded around the owari area. By 1557, I have 13 provinces, all around kyoto and owari (not including kyoto itself) plus those that origionally belonged to tokugawa and imagawa. I allied myself with hojo and takeda, who also control 7,8 provinces apiece. My vassal Sakai also have like 4 provinces above Kyoto. I control 5 outa 6 trade nods, captured the black ship and having net income of like 9k/year. I could easily win the campaign if I continued playing it.
Overall, I just find it just slightly harder than my Hojo campaign with S2R .311 cos the AI stacks now seem to have at least like several samurai/cav units rather than all ashigaru. Also, money is a bit easier now (dont exactly know why, probly cos you dont have many samurai units as before)
IMO, the cap is fine if you only have like 3-4 province and one stack, but as you expand and have multiple stacks, the fixed cap is a bit annoying cos you still only have 3 bow ashigaru, 4 bow samurai, etc to spread out between your stacks. As a result, if you have like 4 stacks, your army would mostly consist of yari ashigaru plus about 3 samurai units, maybe matchlock ashigaru as well cause they are fairly easy to recruit now.
Personally, I'd like the cap gradually increases as you expand (such as by building additional dojo or upgrading current ones, or by increasing prominent level so if you become the shogun you can have like 10 or maybe like 6,7 units of each samurai types)
So it seems playing Oda is somehow a help for the human player vs. playing other factions, as for the superior Ashigaru's including quite low costs for them.
Good point for the hint of the cashflow (less Samurai) - perhaps i have to increase the upkeep of some Samurai? And/or looking for other cost impacts during the advanced campaign?
And so i guess an as of yet planned update with slight reduced building costs of tier 1 buildings is a no go? Hm, i have had indeed a hard time with Shimazu as playtesting faction, the AI just beats me there.
tan zhi han
04-11-2011, 18:19
As the Chosokabe I have 5 provinces and I am making 7000 a turn (minimum taxes from start - several trade treaties - trade ships on silk and incense). I am sitting on 30000 florins, and have purchased most buildings. The main reason I am not spending alot is because I haven't been recruiting troops. I am at war with Mori and another faction and the game is difficult. Several factions are larger than me and closing in on me.
The enemy has much bigger armies. I suppose increasing upkeep for samurai would do nicely. I think it would be possible to make a supply/manpower program for the game like that made in A Proper Empire Total War from ETW. The Supply/Manpower limited how many troops someone could recruit and had an increasing max and growth rate depending on the provinces controlled. I will post some images of enemy army compositions.
https://img858.imageshack.us/img858/1515/shogun2armycompforceone.png
https://img709.imageshack.us/img709/6016/shogun2armycompforcetwo.png
https://img855.imageshack.us/img855/5563/shogun2armycompforcethr.png
https://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6945/shogun2armycompdesperat.png
Thanks for posting here.
Do you use other gameplay mods combined with S2R+?
Difficulty setting, and which year it is there?
As for the mentioned Supply/Manpower modding, of course that's interesting, however that would mean a longtime item to develop, and needs access to several files which are parts of trait files etc. and i think also esf. files.
Perhaps i'll look into this some time in future, but do not expect that very soon, as it would be a very timeconsuming thing. If you are somehow a modder or wanna become one, this could be your project :)
tan zhi han
04-11-2011, 20:09
I use the several of the mods you list in the compatible list on TWC including visual/audio mods. Also, I use Realm Divide Mod and Cherry Blossom Character Skills Mod and Extended Campaign Mod (extends campaigns to 1640). No mods are conflicting with each other to my knowledge.
The year for this game is is probably 1553 or 1554. (Not at 40 turns yet)
And yeah, I realize it'd be difficult to do. Thanks for considering it.
Extended Campaign Mod (extends campaigns to 1640).
I've read this makes anger the longer you play as for the expanded family tree, which is not really compatible with the game.
I also have installed that, but the version which ends at 1620, iirc..
However a development goal for me is to find a balance that makes a victory possible on H/H without the Extension mod, but using the Realm Divide mod, as i think there vanilla goes overboard with its extreme high aggression if this event occurs.
Edit
I believe i'll try an update that a. increases the recruitment costs for Samurai units, but b. decreases the construction costs for the 1st tier buildings. And no changes to the upkeep, as this can easily have huge impacts on the whole cashflow, there for could produce huge anger for the AI to develop their realms (for you as player as well, of course).
Btw., Chosokabe is i think, one of the most easy factions to play, as for the more or less isolation on the isle.
1st post updated, S2R+ v1.1 attached.
Thanks for the updates, DaVinci. :bow:
A bunch of new members here, welcome to the Org! ~:wave:
Thanks for the updates, DaVinci. :bow:
A bunch of new members here, welcome to the Org! ~:wave:
The Org, once THE site for TW game modding, needs a renaissance in this regard.
Actually the Org was the first TW fansite which i visited as i purchased M1TW and looked for a forum (but didn't register, just first far later as i started modding).
I personally always kept contact to the Org with making at least release notes about several modding projects where i was involved, but hadn't ever much time to post here as well.
Maybe i can lure some TWC members (S2 mod players) to this S2 modding forum here ;)
1st post again updated: Version 1.2 available.
It's a due combat stats revision, see changelog.
Kagemusha
04-12-2011, 21:12
Thank you for keeping us updated.:bow:
Since you has gone from TWC the mod take two directions, which one of the mod version is the most complete and the most realistic?
Can you Add (like darthmod) the catapult sooner recruitable, realism needed... I prefer realism mod than darthmod, but this last one is more complete for now: catapult, Projectile explosions now have more realistic effects (they do not launch the troops to space...), etc etc. I think you need to read the darthmod changelog to to have inspiration or remind ;)
Compatible with AUM unit mod?
Since you has gone from TWC the mod take two directions, which one of the mod version is the most complete and the most realistic?
Can you Add (like darthmod) the catapult sooner recruitable, realism needed... I prefer realism mod than darthmod, but this last one is more complete for now: catapult, Projectile explosions now have more realistic effects (they do not launch the troops to space...), etc etc. I think you need to read the darthmod changelog to to have inspiration or remind ;)
Compatible with AUM unit mod?
Hello, as you read in the OP, the S2R+ is a pure personal version, that means i modify all that on my own personalised pace, aside to real life, where i'm a free lancing engineer/architect/consultant, and projects are sometimes extreme time consuming, and sometimes i have a lot free time. The starting S2R was a project/timewise of the ladder kind. Now it's all different. Besides this, i have serious technical connection issues with TWC since April 2011, which hinders me to "work" in an usual manner on TWC. So i said i'll continue something for Shogun 2 on tw.org.
As for contents and its updates, all thoughts and suggestions are welcome, but bear with me, if sometimes updates happen quick and sometimes not, i'll look into things step by step. This is all dependent on my free time and when i playtest the mod and find things which i must change etc. along my own view of priority. The S2R+ on tw.org here is completely independent from the S2R on twcenter.net.
My last internal update is a change for the ranges of matchlocks and bows (matchlocks increased, above a normal bow), but i think i'll do some other things before i upload that version.
EDIT
Update - apparently my twcenter.net issues are solved, read also here http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9374571#post9374571 ... see post # 988, around.
However, that won't change the situation in regard of S2R+ on tw.org and S2R on twcenter.net. Reasons, see above.
1st post updated, S2R+ v1.3 attached.
Last playtest with Chosokabe, 1551 spring, with S2R+ version 1.3.
https://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8274/s2rtest1551spring.jpg (https://img571.imageshack.us/i/s2rtest1551spring.jpg/)
... this picture is here to show my efforts to let Oda survive and expand (so to speak by all means, as i had have enough to see Oda vanish in the first turns), besides other major factions (ie. Shimazu). While of course, if Oda gets support, Tokugawa and Imagawa suffer (as enemies from the start).
And for my question and my suggestion?
Fire arrows removed!? Are you serious? it were sometimes used in land battle mate.... What's about reduced this ability drastically in 1 use per battle, or better, just one or two unit with the fire ability. but don't delete them...
Can you Add (like darthmod) the catapult sooner recruitable, realism needed... I prefer realism mod than darthmod, but this last one is more complete for now: catapult, Projectile explosions now have more realistic effects (they do not launch the troops to space...)
And for my question and my suggestion?
Fire arrows removed!? Are you serious? it were sometimes used in land battle mate.... What's about reduced this ability drastically in 1 use per battle, or better, just one or two unit with the fire ability. but don't delete them...
Catapults currently have imo. no realistic effects (in vanilla), they throw here real explosive bombs which leave impressive earthholes as it was WWI (this is likely to change if it is possible). As for availability, i'll look into this.
The fire arrows and its effects on units are Hollywood contents, wait, no, even Hollywood does not produce such nonsense of barbecued units. I left them for naval and the static unit protections, that's realism reflection, everything else is utter nonsense, if mobile archers shoot fire arrows ( from where do they get it, out of their ass? ;) ).
---
Btw., i couldn't trust my eyes recently in my Chosokabe playtest campaign from above: Oda exactly took over the Shogunate in 1573 (sacked Kyoto), the historical correct year as he did it in reality.
---
Upcoming changes will be (what i have now in my mind):
- Exchange the food subtraction building string from markets to roads (reason: road work cost a lot of manpower/food in reality, i don't understand the approach of market advancement consuming food, would be contrary, i think).
- Kinza Mint art researchment will provide + 1 food as additional effect
or
- Sholarship art researchment, not sure now.
- Naval combat stats will be revised (morale etc.).
- Bomb thrower units will be increased in recruitable numbers ( i guess 6 ).
- Most likely some Samurai unit caps will be slightly increased (for some).
- Same for Ashigaru Archers, just a few more will be recruitable.
Edit:
I observe, as other players as well, the AI sometimes apparently goes around unit caps (which work 100 % for the human player), at least AI fields more per unit type than the code allows. I strongly believe there are no separate codes for the AI how much they can recruit per unit type. But i hesitate to believe the AI can simply cheat here. This is beyond my knowledge what the culprit is and how to solve that, as of yet.
... further ...
- Fixing some stat values/columns (due to wrong tab names in the PFM tool).
Spaceholder ... as for thread/post/1st post editing moves & merges ...wip.
Will explain more later here in this post.
EDIT
So everything is done about the moves/merges/1st post editing.
The goal has been to negate confusion about the normal S2R and the newer S2R+ mods.
Clear different threads are realised now.
Big thanks to Kagemusha who provided the post moves and merges.
1st post updated, v1.3 hotfix added.
The hotfix contains fixes of unit attributes (due to wrong PFM column tabs), plus charge boni reduced for a lot of units (as partly unrealistic high).
Else it is the same as v1.3. The hotfix is complete saved game compatible.
Hey Davinci.
Just wanted to say i've been a big fan of realism since i first tried it, v.310. Recently tried your SR+ and i'm liking that even better than I do normal realism. It seems a much softer blend of Realism's great improvements and vanilla gameplay. Being able to recruit samurai from the start was something i was really missing :yes:
Please keep up the good work, having a ton of fun. :thumbsup:
Hello and thanks,
It was always my goal to create historical realism combined with gameplay, in all of my modding projects. For Shogun 2, imo. one have not to do that much as it was "necessary" for the former TW titles. Vanilla S2 is already excellent in a lot departments, but just vanilla leaves room for (quick) modding improvements, and also, my RL allows not anymore big modding projects.
Of course i'm sure Senguko history experts would like to change much, really much more, S2R+ will remain a realism gameplay tweak mod, and leaves room for the real upcoming overhaule mods, which are announced already here and at TWC.
---
I'm working currently on the next update version 1.4, will release it very soon, ready to play this weekend, i think.
1st post updated (file and changelog), added v1.4.
Removed the file attachments which suffered from the now discovered attribute bug (a vanilla bug for the unit attribute "scare enemy", as units react contrary to what they should), see post # 29. I can only advise everybody who use one of the impacted versions to remove them (S2R+ versions 1.2, 1.3, 1.3 hotfix), and replace it with 1.0 or 1.1 or just the most advanced update 1.4.
Btw., most likely, v1.4 will stay for a while, as it is pretty much advanced now. Updates will slow down now also as for my RL. That means, i guess i'll slowly work parallel to my own playtesting and your incoming comments on a bigger update, which might need weeks, unless i have to change important things and upload it in the meantime.
I wish much fun with the current version S2R+ 1.4 :)
Rice market still sell (-1) food? It's realistic like vanilla. Or you re changed an old of yours modification? Market = 0 is normal you right but after we need selling it to be able to make choices between upgrade castle or rice market, waiting for tech to have more food before upgrade etc etc. Castle upgrade with food is not to easy now? And roads?
Rice market still sell (-1) food? It's realistic like vanilla. Or you re changed an old of yours modification? Market = 0 is normal you right but after we need selling it to be able to make choices between upgrade castle or rice market, waiting for tech to have more food before upgrade etc etc. Castle upgrade with food is not to easy now? And roads?
It's meant to be that the market building string does not subtract food anymore, as the changelog describes, and i did a short test with a new campaign, and was sure that it works as planned, before i uploaded 1.4
Have loaded now a saved game and you are right, it is still in place, that the market string subtracts food.
And i remember now (because i tried something similar already some time ago with S2), it's a problem with the vanilla file system in S2: even if you overwrite the vanilla db file, the according tsv line in vanilla is still active (this was different in ETW and NTW modding, iirc.).
I'll look now for a solution (not sure atm. what i can do about it, technically), and load it up as 1.4 quickfix (perhaps it must go back to vanilla in this regard, because all other options might not work as better alternative for the building tree).
1st post updated.
Version 1.4.1 released, 1.4 removed.
See the changelog for 1.4.1, a new food supply system in place, which should be more interesting and realistic, works technically flawless, it is now a matter of playtesting if it pays back positive for the gameplay: aspects challenge & gameplay & realism plus not at last AI consideration, ie. if rebellions are more likely now compared to vanilla/S2R+ due to food issues for the AI and gameplay suffers badly, then i have to change it so that AI is capable enough, the human player should be able to plan the steps accordingly and can find a proper way, which offers even real advantages for the very late game (i guess or hope the AI is smart enough to apply that as well).
Please playtest this and give some feedback.
HopAlongBunny
04-16-2011, 22:38
Reading the changes you made got me interested.
Download/unpack all went w/o a hitch. I opened a current game after installation; food surplus dropped from about 13+ to -10; does that sound about how it should work?
Reading the changes you made got me interested.
Download/unpack all went w/o a hitch. I opened a current game after installation; food surplus dropped from about 13+ to -10; does that sound about how it should work?
13+ food, how is this possible, vanilla offers this?
However, a saved game will suffer in this regard, yes, can confirm it.
Please start anew, i'm eager to hear about it how that plays out now if you (and the AI) develops from scratch ... have had no time to playtest the new food supply system.
Anyways, it's wip, and likely to change if it doesn't work properly in respective aspects.
I might start a campaign myself soon, but one playtest by one player is not enough to experience all possible outcomes etc.. I'm thankful for every reporting playtester.
1st post updated. Version 1.5 uploaded, see changelog.
(Should be saved game compatible).
Weekend diligence. 1st post updated.
Uploaded version 1.5.5. See changelog.
Hi Da Vinci,
I've been trying to made a minimod (mostly changing unit stats to make the fighting longer) for myself based on S2R+1.4, and I got some difficulty with the dismounted stats (attack, defend, charge). The stats that show up in the dismounted melee skill and dismounted defence skill columns in PFM dont seem to be the ones that show up in game.
Can you please show me how to fix this?
also, IMO the stamina should be increased across the board due to the longer fighting. They seem to tire out too quickly, like 2-3 minutes into a melee. Can you tell me where in PFM I can change the stamina stats? Thanks a lot.
Hi Da Vinci,
I've been trying to made a minimod (mostly changing unit stats to make the fighting longer) for myself based on S2R+1.4, and I got some difficulty with the dismounted stats (attack, defend, charge). The stats that show up in the dismounted melee skill and dismounted defence skill columns in PFM dont seem to be the ones that show up in game.
Can you please show me how to fix this?
also, IMO the stamina should be increased across the board due to the longer fighting. They seem to tire out too quickly, like 2-3 minutes into a melee. Can you tell me where in PFM I can change the stamina stats? Thanks a lot.
Agostinos quoted, what he wrote in the PFM thread as summery of the bugs in the landunits stats PFM display, and i can confirm it.
"Cold Resistance" is actually "Good Stamina"
"Good Stamina" is "Scares Enemies"
"Heat Resistance" is "Inspires Allies"
"Dismounted Melee Defence" is "Dismounted Charge Bonus"
Note: Scares Enemies is bugged, don't apply that. Wait, wasn't it you who discovered the eager-duration-effect vs. units with the scare-attribute?
Else, if you use S2R+, i recommend to update the 1.4 to the newest version, and use this as base for your modding, as ie. all the above is already considered, and you only need to make your personal changes.
1st post updated, 1.6 uploaded (see changelog).
The version is saved game compatible, but the effect changes recommend absolutely a new campaign start.
Things are settled quite good now, the version will stay for a longer playtesting/non-modding phase.
HopAlongBunny
04-19-2011, 06:40
Thank you for the update :)
The adjustments you made take some getting used to:p
My Chosokabe campaign was a tough start (I build roads) once I got over that mistake i managed to feed my ppl. The archer cap has been a learning exp. Even with max samurai and ashi archers I never seem to have the numbers I like; so yes, this mod has changed the way I play the game.
Given the limitations on the player and the way the AI develops, it's a whole new game:book:
I think I'll start a new campaign for 1.6; thanks again!~:wave:
tan zhi han
04-19-2011, 07:21
So far in my campaign as the Oda. No trouble whatsoever. I am making alot of money, but then again, I usually don't have a problem with money. Will report more later.
Thanks for your comments.
A new game start is actually recommended with 1.6.
As for Oda, yes, due to the changes made to help Oda as AI faction surviving and developing properly, Oda is no longer the huge challenge it was for the human player. This is the downside of the balancing when you aim for helping certain AI factions not vanishing in the first turns. I cannot simply make AI special stats, costs etc. per faction. Anyways, as Oda you'll now be able to play his historical superior role properly :) ...while some neighbors should still provide a good challenge (ie. Takeda, Ikko Ikki if they don't make rubbish as AI in their actions of the first turns).
---
I've a small update in store, which changes some unit names, complete save game compatible, won't affect the gameplay. I'll upload this as optional update v1.65 soon.
The purpose of this update is a slight improved flavor for the unit names (infantry and cavalry unit names still more japanese vs. the existing mix of english-japanese).
HopAlongBunny
04-19-2011, 21:55
First large battle with 1.6.
1500ish vs 2500.
Both sides fought to 90+% casualties. Heavily outnumbered but i thought with 5 samurai against all Ashi I could likely rout enough to get a wrap. No chance. The Ashi (on both sides to be fair) fought on until 20 men were left.
Victory! Both generals dead of course; 300 of my army left and a pittance of the enemy. What really got me was, although the enemy sallied...i didn't get the fort.:laugh4:
If Ashi will fight to the death, what point samurai? (although, they did win the battle:p)
First large battle with 1.6.
1500ish vs 2500.
Both sides fought to 90+% casualties. Heavily outnumbered but i thought with 5 samurai against all Ashi I could likely rout enough to get a wrap. No chance. The Ashi (on both sides to be fair) fought on until 20 men were left.
Victory! Both generals dead of course; 300 of my army left and a pittance of the enemy. What really got me was, although the enemy sallied...i didn't get the fort.:laugh4:
If Ashi will fight to the death, what point samurai? (although, they did win the battle:p)
Custom battle or campaign? Difficulty? Factions? Generals: skills/stars?
The mod is generally balanced for what is stated in the 1st post.
And according to my experience this is complete different, very dependent on the circumstances ... battlefield, behaviour, tactics ... i've battles where Ashigaru (speaking of the typical Ashigaru Yari, with the lowest morale) rout far earlier. Else, if you don't see the value of Samurai, then i can't help you ... you say it yourself "...win the battle" (although complete outnumbered with a rate of 60 % more enemies).
Also: Ashigaru have different morale values per certain factions. For example you'll always have a quite hard time vs. Oda Ashis.
---
Concerning 1st post, quoting myself
Attachment: A fix for v1.65. I just discovered that the Nanban high christian conversion rate is back in v1.65 (strangely, must've been an oversight somehow). This is fixed here: Just replace the 1.65 or 1.60 file, if you don't want to see likely some easily christian converted factions. For everything else, it's the same as v1.65.
HopAlongBunny
04-20-2011, 03:15
Yes the samurai proved their worth. It was a Chosokabe campaign.
But at a cost ratio of 2-2.5 - 1 why not just field all Ashi Yari. Given the difference in unit sizes, I would have outnumbered the Beshi (sp).
The generals were nothing special: 3star on both sides.
The tactics may have worked against me. I stacked all 5 samurai (2sword, 1yari, 2bow) on one flank, with my cav unit, looking to get a breakthrough. So even with the units that did eventually rout, I was still out numbered by what was left. The cav in the rear and flanks had limited impact, likely for the same reason.
The stuff posted is not criticism of the mod; my report and musings on game dynamics.
Yes the samurai proved their worth. It was a Chosokabe campaign.
But at a cost ratio of 2-2.5 - 1 why not just field all Ashi Yari. Given the difference in unit sizes, I would have outnumbered the Beshi (sp).
The generals were nothing special: 3star on both sides.
The tactics may have worked against me. I stacked all 5 samurai (2sword, 1yari, 2bow) on one flank, with my cav unit, looking to get a breakthrough. So even with the units that did eventually rout, I was still out numbered by what was left. The cav in the rear and flanks had limited impact, likely for the same reason.
The stuff posted is not criticism of the mod; my report and musings on game dynamics.
That's what i want, critics, just to stuff gaps in the balance etc., it's all okay with your post :) ... need as much info as possible to understand comments.
But at a cost ratio of 2-2.5 - 1 why not just field all Ashi Yari. Given the difference in unit sizes, I would have outnumbered the Beshi (sp).
Can you elaborate this, i do not understand ( Beshi is probably Bessho, or similar ;) ).
As for your Samurai flanking tactic, i guess also that your main Ashi line just suffered too much. That, as you say, Ashi fought to 20 men astounds me in this situation.
I usually spread my Samurai, so they can reduce the vast numbers of Ashi Yari, getting them rout sooner or later at those points, and if ie. the center breaks, then it needs not much to break the flanks as well.
Rear and flank charge attacks help, but not if the enemy units are still complete, they should have quite some losses already, then it works excellent.
1st post updated. V 1.7 uploaded.
Besides the nanban fix, some more balancing for diverse aspects, see changelog.
...the never ending story of playtesting/modding.
HopAlongBunny
04-20-2011, 11:22
"But at a cost ratio of 2-2.5 - 1 why not just field all Ashi Yari. Given the difference in unit sizes, I would have outnumbered the Beshi (sp)."
The 5 samurai represent about 3600 koku. With Ashi Yari costing 223 koku each I could have 16 of them.
At 210 men per unit I would have outnumbered the enemy w/o even considering the rest of my army.
Of course it's more complex than that. A large all Ashi army would have had a different experience distribution from my march across the island. Does the sheer number of extra units make up for that?
"But at a cost ratio of 2-2.5 - 1 why not just field all Ashi Yari. Given the difference in unit sizes, I would have outnumbered the Beshi (sp)."
The 5 samurai represent about 3600 koku. With Ashi Yari costing 223 koku each I could have 16 of them.
At 210 men per unit I would have outnumbered the enemy w/o even considering the rest of my army.
Of course it's more complex than that. A large all Ashi army would have had a different experience distribution from my march across the island. Does the sheer number of extra units make up for that?
Hm, just imagine the situation vice versa, AI with the 5 Samurai etc. and you with the composition which you experienced there in the AI stack of, if i understood right, Ashigaru only. Who will win, i don't know ... you can try that all.
Besides this, i personally aim also for a quite historically army deployment, if i have Samurai available, i'll field them to some extent and all along my cashflow.
Generally, Senguko armies/battles were largely fought by Ashigaru (more and more), but you know this certainly.
The times of Samurai only battles were over here.
And from on starting 17th century Samurai transformed slowly to non-warriors, as the melee warrior skill wasn't anymore that relevant due to gunpowder units.
1st post updated. V 1.75 out.
This is close to the final base balancing design and endversion of S2R+.
S2R+ provides now a pretty different unique gaming experience, just gameplay tweaks with some degree of historical realism reflections and bit of flavour increase.
This time i don't intend to make a never ending modding story (which i might stop with v2.0, and then loose the version numbers with the final build).
I guess, next modding phase for the current build, i'll start to fiddle with dedicated CAI files for a finetuning, prior to this lots of campaign playtesting on the current version.
tan zhi han
04-20-2011, 21:31
Hey DaVinci. The unit stat modding is great. Naginata now beats Yari in battle even though Naginata are outnumbered, but Yari are better meat shields (fodder).
I am now concerned about the larger garrisons. The good thing is that castles are lasting longer and minors are surviving. The bad thing is, now I am seeing Takeda and Mori die within the first couple of turns (13th turn).
For me this is strange because I had never before seen these factions die off quickly. I am guessing that now they cannot take the minor castles out and so the minors are able to eat them up? Also, the Ikko Ikki die off to Uesugi.
Maybe an implementation of "majors survivability" script which allows them to have 1 more recruitment slot in their capital? Just a thought.
EDIT: Also, I had the Hattori attack my capital (backstab) while I was building up an army to attack Hojo. Their attack force consisted of 1 Naginata, 7 Yari, 1 Yumi, and 1 Taisho.
My army in the Capital including the garrison was: 2 Yari, 2 Yumi, 1 Samurai, 1 Naginata, 1 Taisho.
No matter how many times I replay the battle, the enemy overruns me. Even if I use my Taisho to lure 4 enemy units around outside the castle for most of the battle, the enemy still overtakes me. So, I think the army composition is great. I enjoy losing, it means something is being done right. (I shouldn't have left the capital so undefended).\
Hey DaVinci. The unit stat modding is great. Naginata now beats Yari in battle even though Naginata are outnumbered, but Yari are better meat shields (fodder).
I am now concerned about the larger garrisons. The good thing is that castles are lasting longer and minors are surviving. The bad thing is, now I am seeing Takeda and Mori die within the first couple of turns (13th turn).
For me this is strange because I had never before seen these factions die off quickly. I am guessing that now they cannot take the minor castles out and so the minors are able to eat them up? Also, the Ikko Ikki die off to Uesugi.
Maybe an implementation of "majors survivability" script which allows them to have 1 more recruitment slot in their capital? Just a thought.
EDIT: Also, I had the Hattori attack my capital (backstab) while I was building up an army to attack Hojo. Their attack force consisted of 1 Naginata, 7 Yari, 1 Yumi, and 1 Taisho.
My army in the Capital including the garrison was: 2 Yari, 2 Yumi, 1 Samurai, 1 Naginata, 1 Taisho.
No matter how many times I replay the battle, the enemy overruns me. Even if I use my Taisho to lure 4 enemy units around outside the castle for most of the battle, the enemy still overtakes me. So, I think the army composition is great. I enjoy losing, it means something is being done right. (I shouldn't have left the capital so undefended).\
In my two recent camp starts suddenly Oda dies off again quickly. Other were different ... it is different per started campaign, it seems.
This is on one side good, interesting, but i also wanna have what you called "majors survivability script". I'm trying this all the way, and factions who have separate units and shall survive got already a lot extra-consideration, really a lot, while Hojo is difficult as he has no extra normal infantry, Takeda has some extra cavalry, also tricky.
What it really needs is startpos modding (startsituation), but i refuse to touch these files as of yet, as it might make the mod application complicate technically, the modding of those files is "annoying" since ETW, and is much more timeconsuming. And if i start with such things, then i would like to change a lot, making a proper historically reflected startsituation, besides would change the whole balance, and this is really then a lot work and time, which i have not.
Maybe you are right, and it is the new added garrison mod because since i added that file from radious the majors issue is due, it seems. I'll replace it with the former one, or maybe still another. Chances are high that these major faction issues are solved then (again, because it was already quite good).
Please tell me also which parameters you use, difficulty etc., perhaps other gameplay mods?
---
And v1.75.1 uploaded, see 1st post and changelog.
tan zhi han
04-21-2011, 03:37
I am playing normal/normal with normal unit sizes. Just using 1640 campaigns, realm divine mod, and graphics/audio tweaks. No other gameplay mods, S2R+ all the way. Will download the new patch.
Hello!
Since S2R +1.7 I have the following problem with Takeda campaign (new campaigns start): The unit rate is that the Takeda cavalry 60 men and 200 men Yari Ashigaru in the initial army does not coincide with the recruitment of the unit number of 120 Takeda cavalry and Yari Ashigaru 280 men in town Kai.
Please fix the small bow. I play hard/hard sometimes normal/hard and with the following mods: MOD_monthly turn v1.0, mod_movement_reduction_inf20_cav10 mod_realm_divide, MOD_Japanese_fix_v2, mod_Faction_color11, hororemoval, battle border, cherry_blossoms, zw_no_projectile_trails_1.1 and Brigs Music.
I noticed no problems otherwise, the mod works perfectly with the sub-mods. I play since S2R + 1.2 in this configuration.
Supi mod and good gameplay, keep it up DaVinci!
Hello!
Since S2R +1.7 I have the following problem with Takeda campaign (new campaigns start): The unit rate is that the Takeda cavalry 60 men and 200 men Yari Ashigaru in the initial army does not coincide with the recruitment of the unit number of 120 Takeda cavalry and Yari Ashigaru 280 men in town Kai.
Please fix the small bow. I play hard/hard sometimes normal/hard and with the following mods: MOD_monthly turn v1.0, mod_movement_reduction_inf20_cav10 mod_realm_divide, MOD_Japanese_fix_v2, mod_Faction_color11, hororemoval, battle border, cherry_blossoms, zw_no_projectile_trails_1.1 and Brigs Music.
I noticed no problems otherwise, the mod works perfectly with the sub-mods. I play since S2R + 1.2 in this configuration.
Supi mod and good gameplay, keep it up DaVinci!
Please check 1.75.1 out, and look anew about unit numbers, the fix i adressed there is exactly about one cav unit entry, probably Takeda's, not sure now.
Unit numbers are based on ultra size and multiplier setting 1 in preferences. If you leave setting 1 and change it via menu you get just the according numbers and the setting will change automatically in preferences.
Else, the map starting units are different because they mirror vanilla numbers, cannot change it, unless i would do startpos modding, what i don't plan atm..
Small bow? What do you mean there?
---
Else, i intend to release shortly a v1.80 with another garrison modding, as the current one reduces somehow the provided major faction supports in a bad way.
Sorry, said Fix the small problem / the bug.
Thank you first for the info so far. Takeda North Shinano and Kozuke conquered, but the General and my cavalry not fill more of their troops. Should the building be available as of late? In the other cities I've taken, this is not the case.
have already updated to 1.75.1 but have not started a new campaign.
I will then look even if the little problems are still there.
Sorry, said Fix the small problem / the bug.
Thank you first for the info so far. Takeda North Shinano and Kozuke conquered, but the General and my cavalry not fill more of their troops. Should the building be available as of late? In the other cities I've taken, this is not the case.
have already updated to 1.75.1 but have not started a new campaign.
I will then look even if the little problems are still there.
Bold part: You mean the replenishment? I guess so.
Well, i have changed it so that the somehow magical easy and fast replenishment is significantly reduced ... while buildings etc. have an impact on the rate, look at the descriptions of buildings, traits etc..
A realism aspect, just how would it be possible to replace every warrior with ease in a few months? I like that new design-aspect a lot, as it will make every single warrior still more precious and relevant, you must act with your men carefully.
As for new campaign start, i'll upload within the next 20-30 minutes a quick-update to 1.75.1 as 1.76 which will have the former garrison file back and some very small changes. Anyways, this version should then bring back the design that majors survive and expand.
Update 1.76 is online, see first post.
tan zhi han
04-22-2011, 04:39
Latest version (normal/normal)
Update:
New campaign with Chosokabe where I just kept ending turns to watch what happened.
-Oda,Asai,Oggyisuke (??),Sakai die on the 2nd turn.
-2 minor clans die on 3rd turn.
-Shimazu and another minor clan die on the 4th turn.
Conclusion:
-Definitely has to do with Garrisons. I prefer the previous version with the larger garrisons which helped to keep minors alive longer.
-At the same time I prefer not having Oda and Shimazu die (or any major faction for that matter)
-It will most likely need to be done through scripting.
Notes:
-In the previous garrison version, minors lasted longer, but generally majors still expanded better.
-In the lighter garrison version, minors and majors fall left and right (too quickly).
-I prefer the previous version. Can we even add scripting into the game yet?
Rice-exchange provides +1 surplus food (formerly first with Guild possible)
Again, not logical I think, rice market SELL rice is more logical, this is not a production place....
HopAlongBunny
04-22-2011, 12:49
We can argue this til the cows come home :)
The Rice Exchange (like a grain exchange) provides a more efficient pricing mechanism and distribution. It could be argued that the greater efficiencies spur both consumption and production = more rice produced per unit of land and or more land devoted to rice.
We can argue this til the cows come home :)
The Rice Exchange (like a grain exchange) provides a more efficient pricing mechanism and distribution. It could be argued that the greater efficiencies spur both consumption and production = more rice produced per unit of land and or more land devoted to rice.
Yes. It depends all on interpretation of infrastructure/constructions/buildings/government. And in the last instance gameplay decision ( what the mod designer does, just not realism determination or dependence by all means ;) ).
Of course only the rice fields produce rice (food), provide the basic amount within the realms, the higher the tier, the more efficient the production, plus the chi art boni.
(needs btw. also more manpower and overall more management, thus the added decreased army replenishment).
Markets though could be interpreted that they import and export rice (food) and goods, and even import food and export other goods in exchange for food.
Thus makes a food surplus possible. Simple thing of interpretation, and even realistic.
Other models could provide conter arguments, of course, just, other models, i've chosen this current model.
Latest version (normal/normal)
Update:
New campaign with Chosokabe where I just kept ending turns to watch what happened.
-Oda,Asai,Oggyisuke (??),Sakai die on the 2nd turn.
-2 minor clans die on 3rd turn.
-Shimazu and another minor clan die on the 4th turn.
Conclusion:
-Definitely has to do with Garrisons. I prefer the previous version with the larger garrisons which helped to keep minors alive longer.
-At the same time I prefer not having Oda and Shimazu die (or any major faction for that matter)
-It will most likely need to be done through scripting.
Notes:
-In the previous garrison version, minors lasted longer, but generally majors still expanded better.
-In the lighter garrison version, minors and majors fall left and right (too quickly).
-I prefer the previous version. Can we even add scripting into the game yet?
I believe it's bit problematic to compare with normal campaign difficulty, generally.
Though your concerns are valid also for me who is playtesting/developing on hard difficulty, Chosokabe is also my test-faction, as for their isolated isle position, make it possible to observe AI's.
In my testing Shimazu is quite stable, probability of expansion was good. Not valid for Oda.
I'm dis-satisfied with the outcome in the first turns. Contrary to former builds (not the last build(s) with radious garrison mod v4 though), where it worked excellent with the major factions survival/expansion, still now as the former garrison mod is back, major factions vanish partly quick.
It is now something else than the garrisons (alone), what i somehow assumed or rather hoped.
I added lots of additional support-code and penalty-code within the last versions, some in general some for majors, there are the reasons that majors have issues now.
If you want so, it is somehow back to vanilla's balance in this regard ;)
I'm not concerned about minor factions dying, it's their "pity" (or determination) to make place for majors. My goal at least is that for example Oda and Shimazu survive and expand, having the potencial to "build up" the east and west clan unions, and that was already the case with a former version.
I won't go back to that version, but will try to find its potencial again.
All this is not an outcome-law, but shall be a slight tendency, campaigns shall have always the potencial of surprising turns, especially the human player has its impact of course, already alone due to the chosen faction.
I'll still try to balance it out to that design-outcome-tendency, without scripting and startpos modding.
I know you said you didn't want to use scripting... But I have discovered how to create units for the AI at game start, and I have had a good play through so far where the Major Clans have not fallen to minor aggression. (2-3 units should be enough for each major faction that is not the player - this is how I have it set up)
I am using shroud removal to make sure it is successful, and as always, am testing it as Chosokabe.
You could offer your method as small mod ... ?
However, it's back: Oda survives and expands, as well as others like Hojo, and even Mori have a higher chance now to survive ... Shimazu has a quite hard time but can get back to power.
This is a tendency now on H/H, long campaign, ultra unit size, if Chosokabe played - reached my goal after many hours of balancing tweaks and playtesting. Load it up as v1.79.
A version 1.80 will include a final garrison mod. Not sure when i have it so far. After v1.80, i'll do some finetuning with dedicated CAI files.
Edit: V 1.79 is up, see 1st post.
Hi! Thanks for the mod, I'm really liking your ideas! I played 1.79 today as mori on H/H/long for a good ~50 turns if you're interested in my impressions. I used tan zhi han's first script posted in this thread.
I'm looking forward to trying the lighter version of the script, I didn't really like the way the first one worked out because although no great clans died for many years, they ended up steam rolling the minor clans quicker than I've ever seen. Year 1551 Shimazu already conquered his entire island and got up right to my starting province. Oda dominated the other side very fiercely and chosokabe was rolling through the center.
I saw it mentioned here that AI is getting around samurai caps and I can attest to that. I saw a chosokabe stack with 12, that's TWELVE bow samurai! :-)
Speaking of bow samurai. Their melee stats are a little high I think. They are almost exactly the same as melee samurai, so since they have bows that basically makes them the best unit. I couldn't break these guys with light cavalry. Also bow cavalry has only 1 less charge than yari cavalry, which seems odd.
Lastly I think naginata monks and bow monks are way too hard to get to for what they do. Need to research and build monastary, naginata dojo/food archery range, and I only got 2 of each as mori. Not nearly worth the investment.
Again, nice mod!!!
Hello, do you play the english language version? My name changes suggest, that Samurai are Samurai, there is less distinction between them as it was in reality, mainly only the 1st weapon makes a slight difference, ie. of course the Samurai with Yari have anti-cav bonus, and the Samurai with Naginata have slight better armour plus anti-cav bonus, besides, "katana" Samurai got a special role (sort of elite retainers) but are very very rare (only Shimazu have some more of them).
As for the charge difference, every point difference has an impact, if you fight them in 1:1. The Samurai with a bow are melee warriors, standard Samurai, not skirmishers.
The light cavalry are lesser Samurai, just better not expect them to break heavier Samurai units, but surely if you charge a Samurai Daikju (bow) met free in the field, you'll kill alot of them due to initial impact, after that it is tricky ;)
Monks: Only in higher numbers available for factions which had them deployed historically in higher numbers (Ikko Ikki, Uesegi).
As for AI applying caps or not, well, this is a burdon for any balancing efforts, yes ... it's a discussion also at TWC, we can not be sure if AI goes around caps generally, or has other "tools" to getting higher numbers of Samurai.
Yes I'm playing the english language version. Everything you said makes sense! Is there a way I can find out what the unit caps are?
Only thing I still disagree with is the cavalry charge values. If yari cav has a value of 19 and bow cav has a value of 18 (what I saw with takeda) then is the difference of 1 really significant? Surely charging with spears should be more effective than charging with swords, or at least that's what I've been taught forever in medieval games :-) My only concern is that as it is now, there is just no reason to go yari dojo + stables instead of archery dojo + stables. Bow cavalry is just completely superior to yari cavalry in all situations other than if they fight 1 on 1, which almost never happens. If bow cav had a much lower charge bonus then yari cav would have a use in the game!
Going to play 1.80 now!
Yes I'm playing the english language version. Everything you said makes sense! Is there a way I can find out what the unit caps are?
Only thing I still disagree with is the cavalry charge values. If yari cav has a value of 19 and bow cav has a value of 18 (what I saw with takeda) then is the difference of 1 really significant? Surely charging with spears should be more effective than charging with swords, or at least that's what I've been taught forever in medieval games :-) My only concern is that as it is now, there is just no reason to go yari dojo + stables instead of archery dojo + stables. Bow cavalry is just completely superior to yari cavalry in all situations other than if they fight 1 on 1, which almost never happens. If bow cav had a much lower charge bonus then yari cav would have a use in the game!
Going to play 1.80 now!
I have no problem to give Yari Cav slight more charge power, will consider it for a future update.
Edit: Sorry, as for unit caps. Contrary to ETW/NTW, S2 doesn't provide the info-text "you have now 3 of 5" or so, just only "all units recruited" per type if cap is reached. But i'll write down soon the caps for all units, probably an excel, putting it into the dl-file as pdf. "Soon" means then for the v2.0, which will be final for S2R+.
Turn 19 just finished.
Shimazu just died. Most of the Great clans have not even expanded minus Uesugi and Hattori. Ikko Ikki died early.
I admit that my mod allows the Major AI to steam roll the minors, but this provides an adequate challenge that is given historical basis to the player. Right now the minors have blobbed out horrifically... I am as always Chosokabe. I am not sure how to feel about the mod right now. (I am testing with the light script) The fact that the first major JUST died is good news. The fact that the majors are not really majors any more is disconcerting. (I am playing with fog of war off to see what is going on)
It needs more playtesting. Are you playing on H/H, or still N/N?
Options for future balancing:
- Custom light script: Adding 1 more Yari Ashi to some major factions, except Oda i think as he makes it good already, but Shimazu especially seems to fail to secure its stand better in the first turns.
- Custom light script extended: To spawn ie. a better castle tier to the starting capital for a few chosen major factions, Shimazu anyways, i believe Mori as well, to have a factor in the middle of the map, probably also needed for Ikko Ikki.
- Garrison mod adjustment, here i see a big potencial.
Non-options for future balancing:
- Providing more support code to major factions, as they have already vast advantages via troop quality, unit costs and partly even higher unit numbers.
- Changing basic balancing codes, because as they are now, i have generally a good feeling with them (only finetuning will still happen).
Under the line, it is just still a goal to increase the chances for majors to survive/expand, making them more stable - this is indeed tricky.
It seems there are rather two options:
1. The hammer method, where majors get drastic advantages, which makes them fast steamrollers no matter what, i'm against that option.
2. Trying to do slight finetuning, step by step to getting a satisfying balance, without super-steamrollers, but stable major factions. This is my goal.
---
I request a few more campaign experiences with v1.80 by different players before making any changes, have also no time the upcoming week, first at the weekend again.
Also important is to playtest without any other gameplay mods than standard RealmDivided (and unit speed mod, but that's peripheral for the campaign balancing), and on H campaign difficulty, in the case somebody participates in the campaign playtesting with reports.
1st post updated. Version 1.81 available.
Building costs, construction times and few unit cost, train times adjusted. The goal of this adjustment is to provide more stability to the factions. Please playtest.
I'm playing version 1.81, Group Takeda H / H and the following SUBMODE:
Movement Speed Reduction (20/10); Realm Divide Mod (standard); Cherry Blossom Movie Pack; no red border battle; horo removal; no projectile trails; Clan Retexture Project (Ftmch); MOD_monthly turn v1.0; MOD_Japanese_fix_v2; Twosocks02 (Muiscpack).
this configuration I can play without problems until the beginning containing the army of General still has the original Shogun2 number of men.
How does the turn in your opinion with the Mod_monthly v1.0, is there any problems with the S2R + Gameplay (Not do use that or other separate unit start-script with S2R + since v1.80)?
modified Mod_monthly turn v1.0 Tan's unit-start-script or is it just to make ends meet as revolutions? The replenishment
-No problems-solved well, I think it should be.
Clan Retexture Project (Ftmch) new units inlcusive Less glossy is better than the other color mods.
You do that with the additions mod Personally used on record S2R +.
Hello Jahmann, i'm not sure about your post above, hard to understand for me.
Please write with paragraphs, clear points of your questions or findings.
until the beginning containing the army of General still has the original Shogun2 number of men.
As already said, i cannot change this, unless esf/startpos modding would happen (and also then i'm not 100 % sure if single unit numbers can be changed properly for the start-situation). So you really can skip this as comment for the future ;)
Sorry! I use the google-translator.
Google translator translates not just always correct.
If the Mod monthley Turn v1.0 combatible with the start-Unit script?
Are there problems with the S2R + gameplay?
No problem, I've already accepted it(start-situation).
Sorry! I use the google-translator.
Google translator translates not just always correct.
If the Mod monthley Turn v1.0 combatible with the start-Unit script?
Are there problems with the S2R + gameplay?
No problem, I've already accepted it(start-situation).
Bold part: I don't know. You'll find it out ;)
May be interesting:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=447595
May be interesting:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=447595
Ok, thanks for notifying.
SaengsaWang
04-29-2011, 02:29
Davinci,
I wanted to report that there is a bug with double flag bearier animation, sometimes they pop up in the air and runing wierd.
One more thing, This is my first post in this web seem like you have attracted one more guy from TW center again!
Davinci,
I wanted to report that there is a bug with double flag bearier animation, sometimes they pop up in the air and runing wierd.
One more thing, This is my first post in this web seem like you have attracted one more guy from TW center again!
Hello, and yes, saw it already, thanks for the observation though. Actually i personally can live with it, happens in mountanous areas solely as far as i could observe (probably i will keep it as is, because i like the two flagbearers), but if the S2R+ players request in majority to remove the 2nd flagbearer, then i'll do it.
---
Loading up an update v1.83.
Suggestion: Can only recruit 2x Samurai Katana, Naginata Samurai, etc. Please more recruitment of Samurai Katana and etc.
Yari Samurai I can recruit 6-8x!
think it is not realistic, overall for the whole clan at 20 and more regions to a few samurai.
There is a reason behind that design (i wrote somewhere a slight hint already).
So here we go with a "short" description:
Samurai-only units were seldom if not even complete unrealistic for some factions. Samurai normally led Ashigaru and/or were mixed into the "units" ("regiments" or "division", if you want so).
The given limit in this mod is a slight reflection of those historical backgrounds, also ie. the Yari and Bow equipped Samurai were the rule, therfore the higher numbers compared to the other.
And the other types are real special Samurai, so the cap is more restricted for them.
Besides this, the more your empire grows, the more you have to "replace" Samurai positions with Ashigaru, this intentional in this mod and reflects history to some degree.
When i have time and the mod is done, i'll create a pdf S2R+ guide, where also this design-description will be a content, incl. single descriptions of the units, what they really simulate in this design.
More examples: The bow Ashi and sword Ashi are not simple common Ashis in this mod, also every Ashi unit contains lesser Samurai (as imagination, what makes their partly good combat values reasonable), as it was in reality. And those lesser Samurai often were poor nearly like Ashis (peasants - some lesser Samurai hardly had more possession as some Ashi), and had "probably" (perhaps) the equipment of the best looking Ashi textures (if you use the Unit Variety mod, you can see the texture distinctions from which speak). The Samurai tagged units are already "elite" within the whole imagined Samurai deployment, the ones who can afford such a good equipment, and the special ones (ie. the renamed "heroes" are the very elite ones by skill and wealth).
If you know some Sengoku history, the design helps perfectly to your immersion into the gameplay, for me at least valid :)
Ok, thanks for the info!
Then we would have, to present the launch of the era to the year 1477
Sengoku Period (1477 - 1600)
is a change in start time (1477) planned?
think it would be good ;-)
Nope. The according mod design tries to reflect some of the roughly 50 years of the Sengoko period from mid 16th century towards the starting 17th century.
While the fun factor is kept in the mod, thus Samurai recruits are content ;) ... even with my Samurai caps, you can still deploy a least one full Samurai stack, if you like (and such a stack, of course, would be invincible, as hint for the "cheating" players).
Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout
04-30-2011, 18:39
Nope. The according mod design tries to reflect some of the roughly 50 years of the Sengoko period from mid 16th century towards the starting 17th century.
While the fun factor is kept in the mod, thus Samurai recruits are content ;) ... even with my Samurai caps, you can still deploy a least one full Samurai stack, if you like (and such a stack, of course, would be invincible, as hint for the "cheating" players).
Da Vinci,since you're very much a expert of Sengoko history,You will have seen my story posted on the total war website.Its called My story.I need as much historical accuracy or info as you can give me to publish it as a book thanks.
Da Vinci,since you're very much a expert of Sengoko history,You will have seen my story posted on the total war website.Its called My story.I need as much historical accuracy or info as you can give me to publish it as a book thanks.
Oh, i'm in no way an expert of the Sengoku history. Tan zhi han is, for example, a semi expert, but i have only general knowledge about it.
Sorry, my time on totalwar.org allows only to support this hosted forum with my mod here.
Google for it, and then there are of course also a few books available, about the Sengoku period, which can provide accuracy.
Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout
04-30-2011, 18:56
Oh, i'm in no way an expert of the Sengoku history. Tan zhi han is, for example, a semi expert, but i have only general knowledge about it.
Sorry, my time on totalwar.org allows only to support this hosted forum with my mod here.
Google for it, and then there are of course also a few books available, about the Sengoku period, which can provide accuracy.
I'll google it,are there any good websites you may reccomand?
I'll google it,are there any good websites you may reccomand?
No special one which refers to Sengoku alone is known be me, i have taken just every source i found, to providing me enough general knowledge. Also at TWC are running always related discussions etc..
Else i'm a history reader/learner since childhood, that helps, too, to make realism mods.
1.84 out. Relevant is the removal of the campaigns folder (script, see the scripting thread), and the removal of the recently added 2nd flagbearer (as for the anim bug).
1.84 updated to 1.84.1.
Special relevance: Shimazu got a faction specific Naginata Ashigaru (with the same support properties as Oda's).
This unit gives clearly an advantage.
Next version 1.85 will have this faction specific unit also for the Mori faction, and maybe also Ikko Ikki, perhaps done 1st May evening or so.
I plan to add this as well to Takeda and Hojo, probably also to Imagawa, Uesegi, Tokugawa and Date, maybe even to Chosokabe.
All this should change the balance and outcome as these units are available from the start, i hope the (historically) minor factions will have a harder time then.
Ashimurai
05-03-2011, 03:45
Hello everyone,
I am new to this forum and one major reason that made me join this forum is to post my thanks and gratitude toward DaVinci for his hard work on this wonderful and truly the most realistic mod of Shogun Total War 2 and of course all the people that are helping him and giving their feed backs. The game has become much more exciting and challenging during the first few dozens of turns, but I have noticed some weaknesses regarding the AI in the later part of the game, which I hope we can discuss and possibly improve in the future version of the S2R+.
1. The AI most of the time prioritizes attacking the player with full force over defending home province especially when there is only 1 home province left. (e.g. Uesugi force sent all their units to attack my castle while there is a rebellion in their province, which leads to their demise when the small rebellious force took over their caste with ease). Could it be possible to make the AI leave some defense forces in their home province in situation when they only have 1 province left?
2. The AI is very aggressive during early years, which I love very much because of the higher challenge, however, I have noticed that they sometimes expand too fast and neglect to leave some force to put down rebellions which leads to implosion of their empire.
3. In late games, the AI could hardly expand more than 16-17 provinces because of their inability to manage their economy and put down rebellions because they are in war with a human player, they would prioritize attacking and conquering new territories than trying to stabilize the territories they own. That makes the AI not very challenging in later games.
4. I love the cap on the amount of samurai u can recruit, however I still think samurai are not strong enough when put on a scale against other units such as Ashigarus. The thing is, as a human player I try to get most my generals to 6 stars faster by splitting the generals in attacks/defense which makes all generals receive xp. As a result my troops get a super amount of moral + attack dmg and as a result an Ashigaru Inaka with +4 attack from weapon upgrades + 2 attack from jiujitsu + bonus attack from general + alot of moral from general can totally destroy samurai forces of the Enemy with lower level general, which leaves me with the idea of having a only full stacks of Ahsigaru and 6 stars generals as being the most cost efficient way to build up my army. This leads to very repetitive and boring battles. My suggestion would be to maybe increase the stats for samurai and make their cost/maintenance higher to make them even more critical for a change of the course of a battle.
5. I like the new food system, however, the road's consumption of food is making smaller empire with higher tier castles struggle to keep their empire from getting rebellions caused by food shortage. IMO the food system should favor smaller clans more than larger ones since in reality, a larger clan will usually have to support more troops and thus will have less food excess, however, I know that the STW2 system is not build around supporting troops with food so I was wondering if you could make some kind of penalty to production of food for larger empires to simulate the food that is used to support troops? For example, -1 global food to the clan for each 2 new province acquired.
I play the game with your mod, unit card mod, realm divide, Japanese fix, Music and faction color mod on Legendary difficulty level.
Thanks again for your hard work. *Thumbs up*
Hello Ashimurai, welcome and thanks a lot for your thoughts. I'll consider everything of your points within upcoming updates.
And yes, i see a chance to simulate the -food thing for the late game, not region-dependent as long it is scripting-free, and i believe a script for this would take a lot work, and the effect on AI is unclear as well. I'll try something like that with simple tweaks within the already used files. As every penalty needs a kind of bonus to keep a (possible) balance, i'll add some additonal region restriction bonus as counter factor to possible -food rebellions, and probably i have to add also some more +food options for the late game.
All that needs then playtesting, of course the human player can steer things good, but the AI is the question, as you have pointed out already. All in all i envision an option, that food supply is even in the end by all used infrastructure - otherwise rebellions will be the rule throughout the campaign, where the AI cannot work with properly.
As for AI behaviour in general, yes, i'll start soon to modify dedicated campaign AI codes, which might have an impact to the outcomes in case of troop movements etc..
Edit
I forgot to mention: Atm. i'm waiting on CA's big patch, what the impact on mods is (functionality?), besides having lots to do in RL.
Version is updated to 1.85, see sticky release post.
This is probably the last update for a while. (Of course, as earlier said, the mod will reach v2.0 some day in future).
I must add, it is questionable that mods are flawless compatible with the upcoming Patch by CA.
See my "compatibility" thread. Just try it out if your game is updated with the CA patch, along my hints there.
I'm also curious about the compatibility, but personally might have not a lot time in the next weeks ... .
Hope is there, that mods like S2R+ etc. work still flawless with the patched game by CA :)
Version is updated to 1.86: It's the patch 2 compatibility fix (CA's patch from 9th May).
I wish happy gaming with the DX11 and Anti-Aliasing improvements etc..
A contentwise update for S2R+ will happen some time in future.
Version updated to 1.87, see changelog/release thread.
I'll keep this version probably for a good while, campaign playtesting is needed.
However, i'm pretty confident in the assumption that major factions will have a good stand, finally (with or without the custom start-unit light script).
Edit: In the changelog i forget to mention that also with the garrison modding is dealt again (slightly less mighty compared to the last used one, while main extra spawned units are Ashigaru Bowmen).
Hey Davinci,
Are you able to play custom battles with version 1.87 and the patch? cause whenever I play a custom battle, the loading screen before the battle freezes. This doesnt happen if i delete 1.87.
Anyway, I just got this idea that i think can help balance out ashigaru and samurai ...
So we all know that historically, ashigaru at the start of the game were nothing other than a mob of opportunistic peasants who could rout as easily as how they are being recruited, but later on, daimyo began providing them armor and military training to make them valuable enough to replace the samurai (if you don't know about this, you should read Ashigaru 1467-1649 by Stephen Turnbull). So the way ashigaru being portraited in the game results on a lot of people on tw.org and twcenter complaining about either samurai being too redundant in or ashigaru being too useless or things like that. Even though you have fixed parts of the problems by giving samurai extra armour and putting unit limit on them, IMO ashigaru is still to OP at the beginning of the game and a bit under-powered in late game.
So I'm thinking that this problem could be fixed by either one of the two following ways
1. use technologies to upgrade ashigaru, similar to the way line infantry being upgraded in ETW. So late-game techs could give ashigaru stat bonus and make them real valuable
2. create a clone version for each type of ashigaru. This extra ashigaru unit, let say LateGame Yari Ashigaru, has superior stats than the original one but can only be recruited if you have a certain building or tech or after you pass a certain year. You can differentiate visually the two units by giving the original yari ashigaru skin like in Unit variety 2.05 (image below), and the clone one the vanilla skin (which is much better equipped).
Let me know what you think...i know this would require a lot of hard work but perhaps it could give us a more realistic ashigaru warfare.
https://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9977/59298984.jpg
Anyway, I just got this idea that i think can help balance out ashigaru and samurai ...
So we all know that historically, ashigaru at the start of the game were nothing other than a mob of opportunistic peasants who could rout as easily as how they are being recruited, but later on, daimyo began providing them armor and military training to make them valuable enough to replace the samurai (if you don't know about this, you should read Ashigaru 1467-1649 by Stephen Turnbull). So the way ashigaru being portraited in the game results on a lot of people on tw.org and twcenter complaining about either samurai being too redundant in or ashigaru being too useless or things like that. Even though you have fixed parts of the problems by giving samurai extra armour and putting unit limit on them, IMO ashigaru is still to OP at the beginning of the game and a bit under-powered in late game.
So I'm thinking that this problem could be fixed by either one of the two following ways
1. use technologies to upgrade ashigaru, similar to the way line infantry being upgraded in ETW. So late-game techs could give ashigaru stat bonus and make them real valuable
2. create a clone version for each type of ashigaru. This extra ashigaru unit, let say LateGame Yari Ashigaru, has superior stats than the original one but can only be recruited if you have a certain building or tech or after you pass a certain year. You can differentiate visually the two units by giving the original yari ashigaru skin like in Unit variety 2.05 (image below), and the clone one the vanilla skin (which is much better equipped).
Let me know what you think...i know this would require a lot of hard work but perhaps it could give us a more realistic ashigaru warfare.
https://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9977/59298984.jpg
Yeah, thanks for your thoughts. I'm thinking in the same direction.
No. 1 is easier, because a. no skinning work is demanded and b. no issue with Unit Variety mod is not given free for a usage in mods (Hedge Knight, the modder for UV concrete forbids the usage).
But i would like to prefer both things, no. 1 and 2.
However, if i had a skinner in the team, could get around the b. issue, as we could make our own Ashi skins, ie. i would like to have also early Ashi's without swords at their belts, at least not for the poor equipped ones, better equipped Ashi's (with swords at their belts) could also simulate poor Samurai's which were historically mixed into Ashi "regiments".
If you, vuvihu, would be a skinner, i would like to recruit you into the S2R+ team instantly ... let me know if you are going to learn skinning S2 units, and please join me then.
Even though you have fixed parts of the problems by giving samurai extra armour and putting unit limit on them, IMO ashigaru is still to OP at the beginning of the game and a bit under-powered in late game.
I did much more already, really a lot more tweaks in this regard are done, than only adding armour values and limits to Samurai, to working out the unit differences.
---
At this moment of this discussion i would like to mention also, once more, but concrete: (those descriptions will be part for the planned S2R+ guide)
- Sword Ashi's are retainers, partly young Samurai and similar extraordinary warriors and/or servants, capable fighters with a sword. They might become full Samurai, if they survive fights long enough (for the imagination) - since 1.87 they are only recruitable with Sword School, afterwards "they become Samurai". The changed name of them shall be a hint of this role.
- Bow Ashi's aren't ordinary Ashi's, they are some sort of elite Ashi's, similar to the above ones, but not the same close retainers. Just real soldiers, primary trained with bows and sword, and every castle has them, of course they should be deployed also for sieges. Perhaps i will lower the arrow ammo still, to make this role still more present, that they aren't poor skirmishers, but some rare valuable soldiers.
- Naginata Ashi's, they are trained soldiers for melee fights, but of course inferior to Samurai or other retainers. In the late Sengoku period, they weren't a part of deployments anymore, this is reflected now since 1.87.
- Indeed, the Yari Ashi is the typical Ashi from which we speak if we take "Ashigaru" into account. While also here are mixed-in some Samurai and capable (experienced) men. It is not that easy to balance them properly, throughout the campaign, but solutions are started, and can and will be improved.
---
As for custom battle mode, no, i haven't tested it as of yet ;) ... if it is so, then it is still a culprit with CA's patch to S2R+ used files (codes) - if i had access to patch5 files, i could solve that effectively.
I only can confirm, that campaign battles work without any issues.
Hey Davinci,
Are you able to play custom battles with version 1.87 and the patch? cause whenever I play a custom battle, the loading screen before the battle freezes. This doesnt happen if i delete 1.87.
Hm, i have just playtested the with 1.87 new added Mori Nagi Ashi vs. a Date Nagi Samurai in custom battle mode: No issues at all.
Please repeat a custom battle and tell me exactly which factions + units are deployed.
The only possible issue i can imagine is with Sword Ashi's, as vanilla patch5 prepared them now for Ikko Ikki (thanks to Radious for this specific info).
EDIT
Have just playtested Sword Ashi's in custom battle mode: No issues.
Also i have no unit card issues (mentioned by Belgae in another thread).
Preview info:
As CA prepared the default Sword Ashigaru as usage for Ikko Ikki in their upcoming DLC, i'll disable the default Sword Ashigaru in S2R+. So there won't be conflicts.
As some sort of replacement, i'll make much more faction-specific Sword Ashigaru units for the main factions ( just not for Ikko Ikki ;) ) in upcoming S2R+ updates.
My bad on the custom battle thing....Just tried to play custom battles again, everything works perfectly. It's probably just my computer or me being stupid
If you, vuvihu, would be a skinner, i would like to recruit you into the S2R+ team instantly ... let me know if you are going to learn skinning S2 units, and please join me then.
Sorry I'm just a noob in modding. Hopefully someone with real experiences with skinning can help you out on this.
anyway i got another quick question... I was trying to make a personal mod based on S2+ 1.4, just changing the unit stat table and projectile table. The problem is that i got random freezing loading screen after finishing a battle (both campaign battle and custom battle) and you have to alt F4 and replay the battle again. It happens like 50% of the time. Do you know what might cause the issue? Thanks a lot.
My bad on the custom battle thing....Just tried to play custom battles again, everything works perfectly. It's probably just my computer or me being stupid
Sorry I'm just a noob in modding. Hopefully someone with real experiences with skinning can help you out on this.
anyway i got another quick question... I was trying to make a personal mod based on S2+ 1.4, just changing the unit stat table and projectile table. The problem is that i got random freezing loading screen after finishing a battle (both campaign battle and custom battle) and you have to alt F4 and replay the battle again. It happens like 50% of the time. Do you know what might cause the issue? Thanks a lot.
No idea, which values did you change.
tan zhi han
05-12-2011, 23:02
Hey Da Vinci. The latest 1.87 on H/H still ends out with the Oda dying out after turn 3 for me on every playthrough.
I am only using your mod and graphics/other non-essential mods. I took out all scripts in order to properly test the mod. :/
I will see if anything will change with additional changes...
Good to see you back in the thread :)
Yes, but at least Shimazu AI seems to play better now.
In my last trials with 1.87 (chosokabe test H/H), Oda survived somehow in the former Kiso homeland (iirc. that was within the first 10 turns or so, then i stopped to playtest).
Oda has no matter what a damn hard position as he is at war with Imagawa who benefits from the initial war between Tokugawa and Oda, and thus has always the potencial to roll over the according regions, if Oda AI makes the smallest mistake.
I just loaded up v1.88, which might have a potencial to help Oda once more for a better maintainance (also for Shimazu and Mori), i actually hope there is finally an improvement for these specific majors (although the campaign AI is just stupid).
---
Preview-info:
- Addition of a mid-late Sengoku period capable Yari Ashigaru (en par with the Oda faction-specific one), which needs 1 turn, probably recruitable from on castle-fortress or castle-castle tier (not sure now), and will replace the former usual Yari Ashigaru.
- Addition of faction-specific Naginata Ashigaru (for certain factions, reserved for some major factions).
- Addition of faction-specific Sword Ashigaru (for certain factions, reserved for some major factions).
Version 1.89 uploaded. See changelog.
This version contains the late Yari Ashigaru unit addition, as above announced.
Info addition - this added unit is not available for: Oda, Ikko-Ikki (because they have a faction-specific and capable Yari Ashigaru from the start).
Edit: ... and not for Shimazu and Mori (see post below).
Version 1.90 uploaded.
Today it has been marathon modding and playtesting (1.89 resulted in Shimazu early destroyed).
Two faction-specific Yari Ashigaru added (Shimazu and Mori).
Another update uploaded, v1.91, see changelog.
A content update regarding CA's patch.
The fixed v1.91 (2nd Edition) uploaded.
Just a few questions to S2R+ players: Theme pike-wall animation
Do you use the pike-wall animation for Yari Ashigaru if you defend?
Does it help them in comparison to non-pike-wall?
What do you feel about the pretty high fatigue effect of that animation?
Does the AI apply that animation well?
... shall i remove that animation from the Yari Ashigaru? Edit: Question pulled back, i forget just that it is unfortunately not possible to simply remove codes, and in this case it is probably also not an option to replace the according codes. ... bad, because i see this is a disadvantage for the AI which applies it in defence (and deployment changes) and suffers from the high fatigue effect.
hi Davinci,
Can you please describe the crash that u fixed in 1.92? I'm making a personal mod based on 1.90, everything works fine but 60 turns into my Oda campaign, I have 2 CTDs, which happens when Hojo's and Uesugi's capital are taken by another AI faction. Do you ever experience something like your mods? Thanks a lot
Note: basically what i messed with 1.90 is the unit_table, unit_land_stat_table, kvrule, kvfatigue, kvmorale, battle_entities, building_units_allowed, projectile_table, unit_special_abilities, unit-to-unit-junctions-tables, units-to-exclusive-persmission-table, unit-to-grouping table.
hi Davinci,
Can you please describe the crash that u fixed in 1.92? I'm making a personal mod based on 1.90, everything works fine but 60 turns into my Oda campaign, I have 2 CTDs, which happens when Hojo's and Uesugi's capital are taken by another AI faction. Do you ever experience something like your mods? Thanks a lot
Note: basically what i messed with 1.90 is the unit_table, unit_land_stat_table, kvrule, kvfatigue, kvmorale, battle_entities, building_units_allowed, projectile_table, unit_special_abilities, unit-to-unit-junctions-tables, units-to-exclusive-persmission-table, unit-to-grouping table.
Unlucky situation, when you create submods on this base, as CA patched their files and i reacted on them in this release-phase ;)
First 1.92 is bugfree in regard of compatibility with vanilla, i think (hope), so my advice is to use that version for submod-trials.
Critical files are: unit_table, building_units_allowed and corresponding ones.
Generally the in-campaign crashes can have multiple reasons, maybe even vanilla culprits.
As of yet, i didn't play 60 turns into the campaign with 1.92 ... no time atm. for such undertakings, i plan to do that though soon, when i have done an internal v1.93.
EDIT
Actually, if you intend to use S2R+ as base for your own modding, i recommend to wait on my final v2.0 as a serious result-mod, as S2R+ is currently in development, a beta - until this, perhaps use the time to exercise your modding skills.
thanks for your reply
i was able to fix that CTD. I updated the vanilla game and then reinstalled my personal mod. I know that might create other problems but at least i can get through that end turn without a CTD.
anyways, I got a little suggestion for your mod regarding the fatigue system. from what I see in the db, what you tried to make units tire less quickly is to make all of them having "good stamina" trait. In my mod, I increased the fatigue threshold and tweaked other variables (non-combat variables) in kv-fatigue and it worked pretty well.
also, i don't know if you have fixed this in post-1.90 releases or not, but in 1.90 non-clan specific naginata ashigaru can't be recruited in the campaign. i think there's a row missing in building-units-allowed table.
just my two cents
thanks for your reply
i was able to fix that CTD. I updated the vanilla game and then reinstalled my personal mod. I know that might create other problems but at least i can get through that end turn without a CTD.
anyways, I got a little suggestion for your mod regarding the fatigue system. from what I see in the db, what you tried to make units tire less quickly is to make all of them having "good stamina" trait. In my mod, I increased the fatigue threshold and tweaked other variables (non-combat variables) in kv-fatigue and it worked pretty well.
also, i don't know if you have fixed this in post-1.90 releases or not, but in 1.90 non-clan specific naginata ashigaru can't be recruited in the campaign. i think there's a row missing in building-units-allowed table.
just my two cents
Bold: That was my choice, because i wanna weaken the minor factions which "try" to steamroll the map ;) (try = do) ... see changelog(s).
First since 1.92, the major factions have a "viewable" better stand compared to minor factions (which partly start with 2 regions and major's only with 1 region) in campaign, this is done via diverse tweaks.
EDIT
My camp balancing goal is indeed to have the (playable) major factions (not all of them) as the major players who gain the upperhand. I hate it to see if Shimazu, Oda etc. is wiped out by non-playable (= less prominent) minor factions.
Yeah in my current 1.90 Oda campaign (i dont change anything AI-related or have other gameplay mods other than realm divide), other major factions are doing pretty well, only Mori was defeated by a minor clan, all other clans are having at least 4-5 regions. Uesugi at one point was having like 8 regions and beating the crap outta anyone around until me, hojo, data and the light blue clan right by ikko ikki team up against them.
but one thing in your mod that i think should be tweaked is the CAI agressiveness. I think the CAI is a bit over-aggressive. For example, Shimazu and shoni, who were my trading partners with friendly relationship, all of sudden made a naval invasion across half the country on me. I did not see this kind of naval invasions in my previous campaigns which I included hedge knight's UAI mod. Also, still very often the AI go on offensive and leave their only region unprotected and get destroyed easily.
V 1.93 uploaded.
Many building and technology tweaks, and another added unit.
but one thing in your mod that i think should be tweaked is the CAI agressiveness. I think the CAI is a bit over-aggressive. For example, Shimazu and shoni, who were my trading partners with friendly relationship, all of sudden made a naval invasion across half the country on me. I did not see this kind of naval invasions in my previous campaigns which I included hedge knight's UAI mod. Also, still very often the AI go on offensive and leave their only region unprotected and get destroyed easily.
UAI seems to make it too easy then - imo. AI shall be active, also via naval invasion, and esp. if it is a western clan vs. an eastern clan (as it was in history), equal if a trade contract is present or not.
Ie. if Shimazu attacks Oda (esp. if Oda is the human player) is a very welcome event, i won't try to reduce this, as those were major players in history in the west vs. east alliance.
For me important is the other thing, the AI behaviour leaving home capitals unprotected, here i'll try to improve the AI behaviour.
For upcoming v1.94 i plan to add/modify some more CAI files. Version 1.95-2.0 will be further final adjustments.
V 1.94 uploaded.
One more faction-specific unit added, and CAI balancing.
V 1.95 uploaded.
Ikko Ikki dlc compatibility verified.
Else, see changelog.
In the changelog i didn't mention every balancing detail, but important to know is perhaps that Oda's Yari Ashigaru is reduced from 320 -> 300 men.
This is another wip version for the campaign balancing ... the final S2R+ version is near (v2.0) ... due to this i will provide a thread on TWC again, just to getting bit more feedback for the remaining 5 modding updates.
Hi Dav, just wondering, are you the DaVinci modder/beta who works @ SoW: Gettysburg? :) (Same nick so just asking)
Congratulations for your S2R+ mod, it's really an outstanding and yet simple job. One could not believe just one such small file can do so many miracles. :)
Let's begin with the feedback:
1) Check the portrait of the new ashigaru units in the Warriors Recruited report. When you recruit multiple units (Quartermaster's report) all the portraits are smaller and OK but when you only recruit ONE of the new ashigaru units in the Warriors Recruited report the big portrait is empty. Weird, the same portrait, though smaller, is perfectly visible if the unit is recruited with others but when you recruit just one sword ashigaru, for example, its single portrait in the report doesn't appear.
2) I think the samurai unit numbers should be smaller when compared to ashigaru but only very slightly so because you already gave a very good figure in comparative numbers. However, the garrison numbers in castles are quite higher than I had expected. The archers for example, should be half the size of a field unit.
3) Conversely, I recommend tuning down the maximum experience achievable by each unit. Remember that by altering the armor factors you have created very tough units to kill. With high experience, some of these superunits just won't die and we'll see 300 vs 10 with the 10 fighting forever without routing 9) I think routing speed should be increased so as the routers can flee and escape pursuit, technically they throw away everything and run as fast as they can for their lives while pursuers don't because the battle isn't over yet for them).
This is a bit ... unrealistic. I'm sure you get my meaning. Do mind that there are more modifiers than just the experience:
Arts
Buildings
General's command
General's retainers
Equipment
Experience
... and these all add to making the units go super. I think it's important to note that your maximum number of units capping is a GREAT idea. This totally forces the player to merge units (CTL-M) to eventually release a new recruiting slot if a unit is depleted... though unfortunately the engine mixes units of different experience which is VERY BAD. However, since there's ALSO a very slow replenishing rate (which is another GREAT idea of yours) I recommend INCREASING the threshold at which a unit is completely disbanded when taking losses. I'd say when 66% of losses are reached the unit should be auto disbanded after combat. Right now I've had units of 80 men survive 80% losses... bad.
That also adds to the difficulty of keeping a soldier alive (hence a group of elite soldiers with replenishment of THEIR skill and experience) during Sengoku Jidai (no modern surgeons and a wound could put a soldier out of commission even without killing him. Then there's diseases, natural death and so on...).
It is after all aimed to be as realistic as possible and units that get too modified from their initial value tend to mess up with parameters that can't be touched until unrealistic results come in (i.e. cavs winning in woods and vs spears). These results are already in... prior to S2R+, it's vanilla design.
4) Let the Campaign AI work more towards vassalization which doesn't alter the perceiving of epansionism as much as conquering a whole clan completely. With the AI vassals in place, there's more room for diplomacy and trading, else in 10 yrs time Japan is already conquered by 4 or 5 major clans while in reality many of these clans vassalized their subjects instead of conquering them.
5) CAI should most certainly garrison its castles better instead of relying on the structure garrisons... especially if they are at war, their border castles should be HEAVILY garrisoned. With Shimazu this is particularly evident because after you conquer Buzen, you can take Tsukushima and Hizen in the next 2 turns (1 turn each). High garrisoning should prevent so many riots taking place... I don't know how but you can see in the small maps regions going white and becoming rebel very often. Sometimes old clans reappear... this is fine but not so often. If the AI is taught to garrison better, some major clans won't die soon (check note on siege discipline later this + that helps a lot).
6) Battlefield AI should keep the general in good health for as long as humanly possible. If the general dies, the whole army dies and that doesn't help the AI. If the general commits in battle, once the battle is going bad, he should retreat and call for the retreat instead of getting everyone slaughtered because that's how it worked (mind that if you fix the routing speed only the player's cavalry can catch the routers and that's not the main force in an army so that AI's army will really live to fight another day instead of being killed stupidly). Perhaps a GOOD help with this can come with the decrease of the General's morale... so that once his unit's losses become heavy he will rout, taking the army with him (and thus, saving it). Prority here for the AI is to keep the army on the field. If its castles are safe (and garrisoned) it will be good to fight another day, otherwise everything is ALWAYS lost in just 1 battle because it takes long to build a second army from scrap.
7) BAI should commit cavalry units much sooner than it actually does during offensive sieges. As it stands now, missile goes for the fight only when ammo is exhausted (and this is correct) but cavalry dismounts and engages only when everyone else is dead. BAI should already have taken the choice to lift the siege at this time instead of dismounting and sending the cavalry (including the general!) to sure death in a siege that can't be won. Let the cavalry dismount and engage along with the infantry but keep the general safe, again as above, the army must live to fight another day instead of dying silly. You can't always ask to win or die trying. It only happened when it REALLY was a matter of life or death to win that particular battle.
8) CAI should keep the siege intact on the offense unless it has at least double the numbers of the defender. Conversely, if the CAI is besieged, don't make it sally out unless there's really a VERY reasonable chance to win. In this case, sallying out means fighting on the offensive while the defender camps on the hills. The AI should think: I better stay in and wait for reinforcements... at least as long as I am in he's not at advantage, let him come and storm the walls. CAI does seem to understand whether it can win or lose much better than in Vanilla so I think you have done a good job already.
9) It appears to me the autoresolve battle button gives the player a fair advantage over the AI, especially during offensive sieges I rarely really lose when I know if I sieged manually I would. Take action in this field as well. :)
(confirmed, I take ultra heavy losses when storming structures so the calculation of the autoresolve is a bit too light during sieges)
10) In order to simulate that ashigaru where arms stripped from agriculture while samurai were the soldier class, I propose to downgrade the recruiting costs and upkeep costs of samurai (they were already born with the sword in hand and trained, besides they were no mercenaries) by (for example) 25% while increasing both the recruiting costs and upkeep costs of ashigaru (more training needed and recruiting the masses meant hurting the economy). That perfectly fits in a system with limited number of samurai units on the field: bigger ashi army cost more then and takes longer to train but it's more numerous in numbers though less combat effective while samurai are instantly recruited, they cost less and pay less upkeep but are very limited in numbers (both unit numbers and number of units) so they are key units.
11) Last one, I promise... lol. It feels great you can't upgrade the trails to build roads until the first Tech is mastered, however the tooltip is missing from the icon on the construction options (i.e. required art not mastered). Then, after you build the roads, you can also build the next road level (posts & trade). I think you should be able to build them only after mastering the NEXT art level (todofuken, IIRC).
Trust me as one of your greatest supporters, DaV and rest assured that feedback will keep coming. :)
PS 1st level road upgrade now shows the icon when you need the art. Keep note on "doing 2nd art before 2nd level road is possible). ;)
Hello, wow, such a big feedback post ... i'll try to react with the time, bear with me i have only sometimes time for that. I'll use this post here (updating it).
No, i'm not a modder for a Gettysburg mod, who carries my nick? I wear that nick since 2005 on all TW forums.
Re 1) Unit cards: I'm using always a unit card mod (one of the many), and haven't experienced ever such issues.
Re 3) Exp points: Well, yes and thanks, that is a very reasonable point. I'll look where maximum exp points are managed and will limit that (if possible technically).
V 1.96 uploaded. A breakthrough version.
I think i have finally fulfilled my self-proclaimed mission to getting the key factions Shimazu, Mori and Oda in the game.
This is done without a script file, just pure db file balancing. In my recent playtest (always using Chosokabe on H/H, long campaign, ultra unit size), at spring 1549 these three key factions were on a very good shape: (the map in the whole looked pretty good)
Oda has wiped out Tokugawa, Saito and Imagawa, also Hattori was destroyed (by Tsutsui and Oda), and is the most powerful faction at this point besides Hojo (both 5-6 regions), Ikko Ikki looks good as well so far i could view.
Shimazu just wiped out Ito and owns now 3 regions.
Mori has conquered one northern region of Amako and owns 2 regions, hope is there they can hold that (or even expand).
In effect though, vice versa, if a human player chooses to play Oda, Shimazu or Mori, he'll have of course an easier game.
Btw., atm. i don't use the RealmDivide mod or any other gameplay mod, except the unit speed reduction mod (which is a must-have mod).
Downloading as we speak the latest version.
Figure out my tests are done with Shimazu on Hard short campaign and I have no other mods but yours.
I would like to know the list of the mods you are using so I can install them and test the same game you have.
Take into account the importance of making the AI vassalize more in view of trade, treasons and the implied intervention of the main clan if the vassal is attacked. After merely 15 yrs of war there's just really 5 or 6 major clans on the map in 1.95 and that's not good (though it's almost NEVER the same clans). It is likely that if the AI takes care of defense before attacking someone else it will be harder to wipe out a faction, any faction, and the minor clans should do the somersaults to ally to their most powerful neighbors (you mess with me, you'll mess with the big boy behind me too!). I think it's a matter of logics more than DB. You can buff a faction but if its home castle is destroyed because it is left ungarrisoned that won't save that faction.
If you can really take care of these 2 things, everything will go better.
As of the Exp points, look at the archery dojo. The sam unit is already better than the ashi unit but also starts with more XP. Basically, an overall decrease of the starting XP points should keep things balanced and they will remain balanced if units are removed from the game once they reach 66% losses (with less than that the player is still forced to keep them behind to replenish otherwise they will be lost so it's very good you decreased the replenishment rates).
So in summary, imho the priorities should go to siege/sally credible % of success before enterprising the action, diplomacy more vassalization (losing AI clan should offer to be vassal to winning AI clan and winning AI clan should accept more often because a vassal is less threatening to the other clans than that faction conquering the whole Japan), more alliances, better understanding of the importance of garrisoning the castles: you can't attack if your very existence as clan is in danger.
Downloading as we speak the latest version.
Figure out my tests are done with Shimazu on Hard short campaign and I have no other mods but yours.
I would like to know the list of the mods you are using so I can install them and test the same game you have.
Take into account the importance of making the AI vassalize more in view of trade, treasons and the implied intervention of the main clan if the vassal is attacked. After merely 15 yrs of war there's just really 5 or 6 major clans on the map in 1.95 and that's not good (though it's almost NEVER the same clans). It is likely that if the AI takes care of defense before attacking someone else it will be harder to wipe out a faction, any faction, and the minor clans should do the somersaults to ally to their most powerful neighbors (you mess with me, you'll mess with the big boy behind me too!). I think it's a matter of logics more than DB. You can buff a faction but if its home castle is destroyed because it is left ungarrisoned that won't save that faction.
If you can really take care of these 2 things, everything will go better.
As of the Exp points, look at the archery dojo. The sam unit is already better than the ashi unit but also starts with more XP. Basically, an overall decrease of the starting XP points should keep things balanced and they will remain balanced if units are removed from the game once they reach 66% losses (with less than that the player is still forced to keep them behind to replenish otherwise they will be lost so it's very good you decreased the replenishment rates).
So in summary, imho the priorities should go to siege/sally credible % of success before enterprising the action, diplomacy more vassalization (losing AI clan should offer to be vassal to winning AI clan and winning AI clan should accept more often because a vassal is less threatening to the other clans than that faction conquering the whole Japan), more alliances, better understanding of the importance of garrisoning the castles: you can't attack if your very existence as clan is in danger.
You have some good thoughts and ideas. Some are not easy to achieve ;)
As for the exp theme i indeed would prefer a file that can limit the exp gaining in the whole, so units can ie. get 5 or 6 points maximum. I'll search for a file. Otherwise if this is not possible, i think about it to limit the exp via buildings by 1 point for all building upgrades and technology. Also i might like to reduce the exp gaining via battle.
After merely 15 yrs of war there's just really 5 or 6 major clans on the map
Well, 15 years is after all 60 turns, a lot happens there on such a small designed Japan map. I also would prefer a forth and back war of regions lost and won. That's a very hard part for a balancing job, you know.
Now as i gave the major clans Oda, Shimazu (and also Mori) extraordinary support to keep them in the game, besides that other major clans have some extras as well, it is unlikely that minor factions can survive for longer than 15 years, i think so, even if diplomacy and CAI modding is done. What i did also via CAI modding is, that minor factions are more passive now ... more on the defense side of AI behaviour, while the playable major factions remain active but also i gave them more caution for defense. The non-playable "minor" factions are divided in two branches, the real "peaceful" factions and the in-between factions, the latter ones are still between passive and active. Actually it was my goal to get the playable major factions out of the looser-street, i believe i achieved that now.
As i'm a history addict to some degree, for me it is actually very important to have historical major clans in the game, which get the upperhand, in the best case it is an Oda-led "east alliance" vs. a Shimazu-led "west-alliance". But i also would not like it, if Oda and Shimazu can steamroll the map too easy, too quick ... 15 years with about 5-6 clans, well, at this year it should become slowly hard to have enough units for a faction to control the regions, as i limited the units quite strict, except for Yari Ashigaru, but also they will be empty some day. This is done by intention, so at one point in the game the remaining factions have issues to keep their regions properly controlled - i'm interested to see playtests, when this becomes relevant, maybe i shall limit Yari Ashigaru more? Also i might like to include some tweaks which can decrease the repression rates (what i have done already here and there, maybe i need to increase late unrest factors), and rebellions occur eventually in the later game?
However, i'll tweak some codes, ie. i think i can nerf Oda and Shimazu and also Ikko Ikki unit abilities a bit now, have to look then that they still play well in the campaign.
Also i'll try to increase the help ally percentage, in the hope factions won't let their main settlement(s) alone to help an ally. The care for protecting settlements and regions is already tweaked a lot, more is hardly possible because it would go on the cost of army activity (attacking other regions) and i guess the AI behaviour is also somehow hardcoded in this regard, ie. i saw Shimazu very often letting their home capital unprotected (while facing Ito as neighbor with quite some units) although they should have enough money to recruit lots of units and keeping them in the castle, they didn't and lost it ... recently, i just found a workaround which ensures that Shimazu (and Oda) expand and can't loose their starting region in the 1st turns vs. AI enemies ... lol... i have beaten the damn S2 engine, or in other words the odd CA start-situation balance.
As for my additional used mods, check out the Compatibility thread here, i listed them all, which i use, but as for gameplay mods, atm. it is only the speed reduction mod, graphic mods have no impact on the gameplay. While i wanna use soon the Extended Victory Year mod, the 1620 thing with long campaign.
You have some good thoughts and ideas. Some are not easy to achieve ;)
Undoubtedly.
I was an official beta from STW 1.0 to MI final... I've read something like 10 books on japanese history and warfare. I know what I am talking about. :)
As for the exp theme i indeed would prefer a file that can limit the exp gaining in the whole, so units can ie. get 5 or 6 points maximum. I'll search for a file. Otherwise if this is not possible, i think about it to limit the exp via buildings by 1 point for all building upgrades and technology. Also i might like to reduce the exp gaining via battle.
You should tune up the number of kills required to achieve +1xp, increase the threshold at which units are autodisbanded after battle because of their losses (66% losses is a good figure imo) and work on a chain of buildings where the maximum starting xp level of a unit is a mere 2. The losses and slow replenishment will make sure high xp is very hard to achieve.
If you consider there's a cap in unit numbers, you can't really make do WITHOUT a depleted unit for long so you will undoubtedly risk them and, eventually, lose them.
The difficulty in reaching high xp for a unit is because when a crack unit loses men it's hard to replenish it with men of the same skill coming from other units. The CTL-M is mandatory for the player in your excellent mod but it doesn't take into account the XP of the units you are merging (so it mixes green with veterans). This however, still ensures at least one of the depleted units remains depleted and it, eventually will just die out sooner than the elite unit.
Be advised in your system the cavalry being so buffed has an easy time, especially because of easy routing troops, in gaining high xp. While battles last longer, I think the losses are extremely high because units are resilient in combat and stay on the field without routing for far too long. That's ALSO extra unneeded kills. Troops should rout sooner (or general call the retreat) and live to fight another day. Routing speed must be increased, that's a must so they can have a better chance to escape.
Well, 15 years is after all 60 turns, a lot happens there on such a small designed Japan map. I also would prefer a forth and back war of regions lost and won. That's a very hard part for a balancing job, you know.
That happens because the AI doesn't really garrison its castles so it's relatively easy to conquer many many provinces with just one army even when it's not replenishing. Possible solutions are 1 extra garrison unit (but do reduce the numbers of the garrison bowmen because they are more numerous than field units), further reduction of land movement (slower movement means more time to defend but I don't really like this compromised alternative) or... just find a way to make the AI protect its borders and make more use of alliances. As shimazu I'm not going to attack Sagara if it's backed up by a strong clan like Mori that would destroy my trade routes with its navy.
Perhaps a good compromised may be achieved if the happiness level of a newly conquered region are low. This would force the AI to garrison new conquests much better which in turn makes it harder to lose the province. Shoni for example doesn't garrison Tsukushima, Hizen and Buzen at all. I actually almost never catch Sagara from Bungo... it's 10 times easier to conquer these 3 as they are undefended. If these problems are solved it will take much much longer than 15 yrs to have 5 or 6 clans on the map. ;)
Now as i gave the major clans Oda, Shimazu (and also Mori) extraordinary support to keep them in the game, besides that other major clans have some extras as well, it is unlikely that minor factions can survive for longer than 15 years, i think so, even if diplomacy and CAI modding is done.
Diplomacy is key here. minor clans should do the impossible to align to their more powerful and troublesome neighbors. The penalties for attacking an ally are extreme. This doesn't happen unfortunately. More vassals and more allies = longer campaigning.
What i did also via CAI modding is, that minor factions are more passive now ... more on the defense side of AI behaviour, while the playable major factions remain active but also i gave them more caution for defense. The non-playable "minor" factions are divided in two branches, the real "peaceful" factions and the in-between factions, the latter ones are still between passive and active. Actually it was my goal to get the playable major factions out of the looser-street, i believe i achieved that now.
The situation with Oda/Tokugawa is probably the hardest one. However what we know now is the history that those winning factions did and they did it on the field of battle. A minor faction in this problematic period was impossible to be kept alive without being allied or vassalized by a stronger neighbor for their own interest. You never know when you can take your revenge against your lord or ally later on so it makes sense.
I think as majors prioritize defense so you can make minors prioritize defence through alliances. As I mentioned, I am not going to attack Sagara even if I am 3 times stronger if it's allied to Mori. Sagara instead plays so peacefully the BEST I've seen it do is take Tsukushima (only to lose it a couple of rounds later). It's too static, impossible to survive like that and even a peaceful daimyo must have known there's no room for peace in the age of the country at war. Can you do something about minors allying? To the extent of being vassalized is not a bad idea.
As i'm a history addict to some degree, for me it is actually very important to have historical major clans in the game, which get the upperhand, in the best case it is an Oda-led "east alliance" vs. a Shimazu-led "west-alliance". But i also would not like it, if Oda and Shimazu can steamroll the map too easy, too quick ... 15 years with about 5-6 clans, well, at this year it should become slowly hard to have enough units for a faction to control the regions, as i limited the units quite strict, except for Yari Ashigaru, but also they will be empty some day. This is done by intention, so at one point in the game the remaining factions have issues to keep their regions properly controlled - i'm interested to see playtests, when this becomes relevant, maybe i shall limit Yari Ashigaru more?
With a static samurai cap number that's correct, you can basically field 3 maybe 4 armies but of course the more you have the less powerful they are so the bigger the reign the harder it is to properly defend it but there are seldom problems once you conquer a region. As I said in the previous feedback, Ashigaru are hands stripped off the economy. You don't need limiters here if the upkeep simulates the fact that men can't work the land because they are in the army, having many Ashigaru will cost you a fortune (and force you to loot more often or disband units). It's the ashigaru upkeep that must rise.
Also i might like to include some tweaks which can decrease the repression rates (what i have done already here and there, maybe i need to increase late unrest factors), and rebellions occur eventually in the later game?
Aggressive AI doesn't defend castles and often insurrections arise but according to me this parameter should rise a bit to contain fast expansions from the beginning to the end not just in the late game. The minors are so inactive that when a region revolts they don't even try to recapture it... and that's an easy one. I hope that changes... it takes but 2 regions to turn a minor into a major clan after all.
However, i'll tweak some codes, ie. i think i can nerf Oda and Shimazu and also Ikko Ikki unit abilities a bit now, have to look then that they still play well in the campaign.
Also i'll try to increase the help ally percentage, in the hope factions won't let their main settlement(s) alone to help an ally. The care for protecting settlements and regions is already tweaked a lot, more is hardly possible because it would go on the cost of army activity (attacking other regions) and i guess the AI behaviour is also somehow hardcoded in this regard, ie. i saw Shimazu very often letting their home capital unprotected (while facing Ito as neighbor with quite some units) although they should have enough money to recruit lots of units and keeping them in the castle, they didn't and lost it ... recently, i just found a workaround which ensures that Shimazu (and Oda) expand and can't loose their starting region in the 1st turns vs. AI enemies ... lol... i have beaten the damn S2 engine, or in other words the odd CA start-situation balance.
Diplomacy again is the key. You go vs Shimazu and you'll be at war with its allies. One region and even one clan eliminated as a threat don't ensure the final survival in the war. :)
All right, keep up. I'll be waiting for your next versions. :)
Now, v1.96.5 uploaded ("1.96.5", because i'll need more update steps than the predicted remaining 5 from 1.95 to 2.0).
This is merely an internal .org version, and i hope i'll get again campaign playtest feedback from you, GShock :) (maybe also other step by).
I tested one in-between version but not the very last one and won't have time over the week.
What i need is a deep play into the campaign, and this with Chosokabe on H/H with ultra unit size, long campaign, and the unit speed reduction mod should be applied, no other gameplay mods atm., observing the AI, esp. Shimazu, Mori and Oda, ie. if they die soon again, then you can quit and report, because this would be a no go for me (and i have to adjust it back to higher stability for them, while Mori is a quite "whacky"-faction, due to their "hardcoded" naval focus, and it might be inevitable that they suffer from Amako or another one, and have to leave the theater, because they didn't focus enough on land).
GShock, there are of course a lot things in all your comments which are known by me (i'm balancing tw games since 2005), and a lot things could be replied by me, regarding aspects which are relevant (that would lead to an extreme detail discussion which i can't afford timewise) - but really, i wanna thank you for your contribution here, it's very very appreciated, you put some light on things which i wouldn't have had considered in such a depth without your focus on them, maybe i even would have ignored them esp. your expressed desire to put a lot focus on alliance-diplomacy-behaviour, i agree with you now, you convinced me, it's a major factor (for this theme i'll relate at least 2 update steps, it's not in this 1.96.5, here only slightly strived, and i hope i can do something in this regard, which significantly changes the pace of the AI behaviour, while the diplo-behaviour in all TW games is a very critical one, and merely impossible to achieve a proper change of the campaign course, which we would like to see) - i'll mention you soon in the credits section, as undoubtly your input influences my modding.
Since you aim for realism and I join realism-oriented projects in all games I have given my contribution to, I am here to help you.
Beginning tests on 1.96.5 immediately.
I recommend you download and study the AI files of the Darth Mod because he's totally focused atm on forcing the AI inside castles when they can't win by sallying out and by NOT storming structures when they can't win the offensive siege due to low numbers. I am sure his files will help.
Again, if the AI can be stopped from playing stupid (which is EXCLUSIVELY attacking when weak) this game will dramatically change for the better. AI needs to properly garrison towns because they are mostly left undefended. I do not know whether it's best to get there by increasing the riot factors (which would force a stronger garrison) or the garrisons themselves (which however would risk leading the offensive AI to crash and die even sooner with wrong siege attempts with weak numbers) or, reducing the movement speeds (more time taken in travels means more time to reinforce for the defender). That's up to you and what you can do. I am a tester, not a modder. :)
TTYL on tests but I can't afford ultra-ultra. I'll play hard Shimazu on medium sized.
Testing on the AI behavior is rather easy. All you need is to play Shimazu and see how clans Ito and Sagara react to your moves.
The 1.96.5 showed there's no change in the attitude of Ito. You can conquer Osumi at round 1, 2 or 3 and the fact Satsuma may recruit 3 ashigaru units in just one turn makes me think and I don't think it's a good idea. Yes, the number of recruiting slots is too big for just a very small castle and then of course Ito has no chance in defending Osumi in the long term.
In the short term, Osumi, just like 99% of all castles I have seen in S2TW (all mods or versions) is the same: totally ungarrisoned.
I observed a single unit popping out and going actually back towards Hyuga many many times where the Ito Daimyo is and he's coming with an army. That leaves the already weak Osumi undefended 100% of times. If you want you can take Osumi WITH that unit inside or not. The intervening garrison is too weak anyway.
What the Ito daimyo does is simply attack you if you are laying siege to Osumi (which would be correct if he had the numbers, unfortunately, due to the 3 ashi recruiting slots the AI DOESN'T have the numbers), otherwise it goes through the woods towards Satsuma. It is an interesting diversion but with an easy countermove. Once Osumi is captured, he doesn't have the movement points to attack Satsuma right away, so you can basically go between the swordsmith and the farms of Satsuma, eventually cutting out of taxes Osumi (to keep it from rebelling) and the Ito Daimyo will either lose or fall back.
this move can be repeated many times until you are strong enough to defend Satsuma/Osumi and while the Ito Daimyo is playing club and carrot with you, you can take Hyuga... which ends the Ito days for good.
On one side I am against the spawning of garrisons at all. This way you can take Osumi but with a high riot factor (fixing the recruiting slots @ Satsuma) you will take losses and be unable to defend Osumi from the upcoming Ito counterstrike (which you survive just because of the garrison which should NOT be there since you just conquered an enemy region). On the other side, if the AI doesn't garrison its castles, making the garrisons stronger (3 times stronger but the units must field less men than their corresponding field unit, i.e. bow ashi is 70 in garrison but the bow ashi unit is 60 men, so the garrison should be 30 men and the field unit 60 men but with this idea, the garrison should have 1 retainer, 2 ashi and 2 bow ashi).
If my idea works, and the stronger garrisons (the bigger the castle, the more numerous the garrison units) then the AI may move relatively freely. Perhaps in order to slow down steamrolling, optionizing that the repairing of a castle takes 2 turns instead of 1 is a better idea (s you see I am listing the options). If the caslte is not repaired it does not REPRESS. Hence if you don't conquer the region with appropriate forces it will most certainly riot.
At this point, give the rebel armies STRONG UNITS and not only ashigaru (i.e. MANY ronin in their army) and you'll see how things change.
Summary:
Garrison units should be more numerous but with HALF the numbers in each unit for the corresponding field unit (bow ashi garrison is 70 should be 30 when field unit bow ashi is 60 man). An increment in unit numbers means lev1 structure gives 1 retainer and TRIPLE units (3 bow ashi, 1 retainer, 3 ashi infantry).
Castle repair (this idea should be extended to all dmgd structures because it's too cheap to repair them right now) taking more turns.
Stronger rebellions.
Anyway at present campaign I adopted the same strategy as always: osumi, hyuga, bungo, buzen, tsukushima, hizen, bingo. This time though, MORI declared war on me and everything changed (though I managed to bring in the war the Chosokabe). The only missing thing is clan Sagara which saw me conquer the whole Kyushu without making a single move against me (not tried to ally, not declared war, did not shift from friendly to unfriendly... did not attack me in the back. This all made things easy for me, it always does).
Perhaps a stronger decline of attitude when a daimyo expands could help sway the tide of attitudes. This is ALSO an option to slow down steamrolling.
I suggest you focus on the strategic side of the problem with the AI, it's most certainly the greatest weakness of ALL TW games.
Damn, i wrote a longer reply, it's lost somehow.
Summary, steps for the next version (test):
- Upped garrison along your model (with decreased garrison unit number).
- Minor and full minor AI factions more militant again.
Prior to this, i need a 1.96.5 test as Chosokabe, if Shimazu is AI (the course of Kyushu is different if Shimazu is AI steered, believe me).
Still a short hint: All factions have one extra recruitment slot in their home-region-capital.
Do you think it is senseful to reduce the default slots per castle tier by 1?
I am starting a Chosokabe campaign.
About castles my idea is
lev1/lev2 -> 1 unit
lev3/lev4 -> 2 units
We need more units in garrisons to match this criteria so that the bigger the castle the more units in the garrison. Again, is it possible to increase the cost (if not the time) to repair dmg structures? A dmg castle still gives the garrison... :(
Yesterday I got jammed in Hyuga and attacked by Shoni. I had the time to produce the naginata samurai. Somehow at their first battle they already had XP2. That's not good. Meanwhile Shoni had 2 bow, 2 muskets and the rest were all yashi with 2 generals. Possible solution, unless you want to change the system with one building type producing one unit type (as opposed to one recruiting center able to produce all unit types), make sure the AI builds one military building before building 1 market, otherwise obviously it lacks the structures to produce samurai units.
Some sort of building limitation might be useful: I.e. you can build the sword dojo in Satsuma but not in Hizen. This means in Hizen I'll build a bow dojo, hence armies will be more balanced. That's for the AI of course, we already build different dojos in different places to have balanced armies but I still see mostly yashi armies for the AI.
All right, you're on spot, Shimazu doesn't survive when you play as Chosokabe.
I've got to say a few things right now having seen the recruitment tree of this clan but first let's look at how Shimazu loses.
This time instead of going to Osumi, Shimazu actually conquered Higo and destroyed Sagara. A few turns later, Higo rioted. Clan Ouchi and Shoni now have Kyushu split exactly along the middle line, blue on left, grey on right. I was surprised, I thought the AI had the mission to conquer Osumi but it didn't and this is very bad because I had in my mind to use these missions to influence the AI choice-making process so we could keep things perfectly smooth at start.
My personal point of view is of total "what if" with this game, regardless of the S2R+ mod. So I totally disagree on giving each faction a separate tech tree and unit advantages or disadvantages. It's pretty simple. Oda wrote history with the ashigaru troops but this history was written on the field of battle, the way they were employed, trained, recruited, not by pre-existent bonuses. The same goes with the Takeda cavalry... it became famous because of how it was used not because of the better horses of the Shinano province. ;)
The same goes with Shimazu. This clan starts with one province, Satsuma, so it can't be said to be a major clan. It's HISTORY that made him major the way things went in battle for Shimazu but that's in the "future" not in the "starting points" of the clan. So all clans should be treated the same, at least for testing purposes and then we may move a step ahead once things work correctly in adding flavor and different daimyo personalities.
The fact Chosokabe can't recruit yashi but only bashi is a minus. All clans should have the same choices at hand bc I don't think the AI actually is able to take the right choice for each clan. It will take the same choice, always, and so with some clan it will pay with some other, it won't.
So, I suggest we start working from scratch, giving all clans the same unit tech tree, unit costs, unit limiters, etc (and testing at normal difficulty level without AI bonuses or handicaps). This will help balance things and reinstate your additions (and others) one by one on a SOLID base.
Let's say that the problem with the AI is that for example, I conquered Iyo and stayed in the castle, I was stormed at first sight by a 300 man army while inside I had 1200 men including the garrison. This attitude is suicidal that's why Shimazu loses. the AI doesn't seem to keep anything safe including the capital but if you look at Sagara, it only attacks Tsukushima (1.96.5 as Shimazu) when Higo has 20 units inside. In 2 turns, that army is back in Higo, Tsukushima is undefended again and obviously lost to Shoni or Ouchi.
It might be that reducing the repression factors of castles might help keep the AI inside with a garrison, otherwise it's a matter of daimyo's attitude/personality. Peaceful clans act like Sagara, they stay put in great numbers. Others go out and move as far as they can even after conquering a province without giving ANY garrison to the newly conquered garrisons. In other words the AI will keep moving regardless of how safe things are left behind, this is the reason why ALL clans die and no effort on rebalancing can help. It takes but a catastrophe with your single army the stupid way the AI attacks and since there's nobody at home, the AI faction is defenseless.
I m thinking right now that we could have multiple tier structures (i.e. bow dojo, bow dojo lev 2, bow dojo lev 3, bow dojo lev 4 and so on, according to the castle level) and each structure produce still just 1 recruiting slot but a different unit.
Say, lev1 castle produces 30 man yashi unit, the sword dojo lev 1 can produce 30 man sword ashi unit while lev 2 castle can produce 50 man yashi unit and allows sword dojo lev 2 which can produce 50 man sword ashi (and 0xp 30 man no-dachi). Lev 3 castle can produce 60 man yashi unit, allowing sword dojo lev 3 which can produce 60 man sword ashi and 0xp 60 man no-dachi. Of course all these units must have a max number capping. In the long run and especially if you can find the parameter to disband a unit if 66% of men are lost, with the passing time, you have stronger units without messing around with the xp... it's the evolution of warfare, structures able to recruit and train more men but of course, only combat gives the experience.
I suggest to disable bushido art as requirement for yashi (that's supposedly the main bulk unit of the game for all clans) and allow the special ashi type at spear art (so we can drop that 1xp bonus), the second spear/bow/sword is ok with +1xp. As I said, 1XP is the MAXIMUM xp level we should allow for a starting unit, which is already modified by the command, traits and retainers of its leader. The inability to build ANY structure in ANY place should ALSO be a very good factor as said above: we can't let AI armies be built unbalanced and if the AI can't build a dojo here it will build some other dojo and that helps. Finally it is ****MANDATORY**** all provinces can recruit RONIN.
Perhaps the solution to the AI being so reckless is a reduction of its movement points. If it were possible to also increase the "red circle" of influence of structures, ships and armies, the AI would be compelled, geographically to take different choices because it can't move further in that same turn. Essentially, this should help. In this case I'd make armies move 1 (just a bit less than they now do), agents 2 and ships 3 (bigger ship movement helps with naval invasion option).
Again, I strongly urge you to at least give a look at the Darth Mod files.
Mmm some more thoughts: It's likely that the production of units is affected by the insane choice of the AI to build so many markets instead of multiple military buildings. If that is so, maybe it's a good idea to make the lev 1 castle only be able to build 1 military building, hence all other civil buildings be available at lev2 castle where we already have military capability in that region.
Again, lev1 castle with any building should be able to produce ronin. Heaviest upkeep should go on ronin, lowest on samurai. Of course samurai are limited both in number of max units and in manpower in each unit. I like the idea of having more men produced with higher tier buildings instead of more xp, it's much better but this requires multiple units to be created though it should be a piece of cake, easy to do.
Maybe the best solution is to have castle lev1 produce yashi and ybow (+ronin), lev2 castle yashi (more men) and ybow (more men) (+ ronin more men) + nagi ashi and sword ashi. Lev3 castle would allow a higher number of all ashi units + higher tier of military building (i.e. if u have yari dojo built at castle lev 2 you could recruit ysam and with lev3 castle you can build nag dojo which gives more men to ysam + nagi sam, then with an extra yari dojo you have more men at yari sam and more men at nagi sam which should still be fewer than yari sam in any case all at lev0 xp).
Just extra thoughts.
Huh, lots of valueable stuff what you provide again, awesome, really i'm impressed by your descriptive capability. The problem now: You would like to see a whole new mod from scratch with total what-if base? I'm a historical-realism-man, means, the total war (vanilla) what-if approach is not my cup of tea, even if realism contents/aspects are modded into a game, i can get only immersion and a flavour feeling if historically successful factions are no weak ducks and make a good solid play. [I'm modding TW since Rome, there i participated in the old TFT mod (today known under FRRE mods) and realised parallel my own proper Roman faction mod, based on a lot of historical stuff/background, this modding style went on with several other mods on RTW (for example ChivalryTW) and then M2TW, then ETW and NTW].
Actually i'm working since a huge set of S2R+ versions on the key-factions (if AI steered) Oda*, Shimazu (and recently also Mori), getting support to reflect their historical path to some degree, in the sense that they don't get wiped out easily or at all by "minor" factions AI. Hope you understand that your start-anew suggestions are a no-go for me. I see you have a very good conceptual approach for modding TW games, like a developer, maybe you can find someone who likes to modify what you provide as conception, then you have your own mod as project director.
* as compromise (i know in reality Tokugawa went with Oda to success)
Edit: Maybe it sounds harsh, it is not meant that way, just only clear words for a clarification of the S2R+ mod-design ;)
Also i'm working on a v1.97 which shows very well results in every respect, have playtested (always as Chosokabe) current dev-version until 1556 or so, and everything looks good, except that Shimazu got overwhelmed recently by Shoni due to their odd behaviour to attack Sagara which has a whole full stack in their castle (as you have described above) so Shimazu lost their veteran army and Shoni stepped in to take Sagara and bit later Simazu- i'll try to "correct" that as far it is possible. Else the map still looks good, many factions alive and kicking, including that some rebellions occur and change regions-course for a while, from the major factions, only Tokugawa and Imagawa are erased (by Oda of course), and then later Uesegi by Takeda, which got parallel big issues with Ikko Ikki, Ikko Ikki also attacked recently Oda, who fought them back (1 lost region at least), however now Oda is at war with Takeda, Hojo and Ikko Ikki, what stops him significantly. Many, really many "minor" factions are alive and make a good play, campaign-wise it's a good step further now, along my campaign-balance-goals.
And I have lots of ideas (got them while playtesting) in my mind which i wanna put into the upcoming release version to complement the course of the campaign-balance-style, and many of your thoughts went into that design recently, i would be happy if you still wanna playtest and suggest to the S2R+ approach, your contribution is highly appreciated, although S2R+ is never designed to support total what-if, i would feel honored if you stay aside (the what-if happens anyway if a player chooses a certain faction, and plays just as he wants, ie. complete ahistorical, ie. destroys Oda as soon as he can - but i'm making my mods for myself in the first place for my personal playstyle, for the kind of immersion and flavour which i need).
Huh, lots of valueable stuff what you provide again, awesome, really i'm impressed by your descriptive capability. The problem now: You would like to see a whole new mod from scratch with total what-if base? I'm a historical-realism-man, means, the total war (vanilla) what-if approach is not my cup of tea, even if realism contents/aspects are modded into a game, i can get only immersion and a flavour feeling if historically successful factions are no weak ducks and make a good solid play.
Believe it or not, you have no choice, my friend. One thing is to balance (melee 4 + armor 5) vs (melee 4 + armor 5) and a totally different thing is to balance (melee 4 + armor 5 + x + y + z) vs (melee 4 + armor 5 + a + b + c). Start from the man: a soldier dies if he can't help it.
The AI will take the most logical choice according to its logics and I don't really think it takes into account 50 variables but just a few. The more stuff you add to differentiate one faction from the other, the hardest (beyond impossible) it becomes to figure out how the mechanics really work. We have a fine example with the daimyos attitudes. You might spend a few decades to balance the mere island of kyushu with just 5 clans.
What made the Shimazu ksamurai good was the way they were used (successfully) not a starting advantage and there's no guarantee the AI will favor ksamurai and actually employ them correctly in battle (it doesn't in fact). I am on the what if because I get Shimazu and make its daimyo become Shogun. If he can become shogun, then the same can be said for any other clan. As I said, Shimazu starts with just ONE province and you can't be less minor than that! :)
Actually i'm working since a huge set of S2R+ versions on the key-factions (if AI steered) Oda*, Shimazu (and recently also Mori), getting support to reflect their historical path to some degree, in the sense that they don't get wiped out easily or at all by "minor" factions AI. Hope you understand that your start-anew suggestions are a no-go for me. I see you have a very good conceptual approach for modding TW games, like a developer, maybe you can find someone who likes to modify what you provide as conception, then you have your own mod as project director.
Mmm no not really, not again please. :)
Well I was merely suggesting the "scratch" approach for the sake of simplicity. It's simple to balance (a + b) vs (a + b) than balance 20 different variables but I understand your approach and respect it, I will help you all the same in your quest. :)
The problem of your approach is that if a faction always behaves the same, there's really little room for "surprises" the same strategies will fail and the same strategies will succeed. While this might be good for the AI (minor clan will always be subdued) that might not be so much fun for the player but hey, after all you might lose a key battle and all the strategy goes to hell so ... you never can tell.
Also i'm working on a v1.97 which shows very well results in every respect, have playtested (always as Chosokabe) current dev-version until 1556 or so, and everything looks good, except that Shimazu got overwhelmed recently by Shoni due to their odd behaviour to attack Sagara which has a whole full stack in their castle (as you have described above) so Shimazu lost their veteran army and Shoni stepped in to take Sagara and bit later Simazu- i'll try to "correct" that as far it is possible.
I don't know how he did it but I played 5 mins DMS mod and he managed actually to prevent the AI from attacking without a credible chance of success. Note that DMS has a vastly humongous "zone control" so it's impossible for an army to bypass a structure or an enemy army. Also, the mov allowance is huge. Where ITO fails to reach Satsuma in SR2+ it CAN reach Satsuma in DMS while you are in Osumi. That changes everything for Shimazu.
Else the map still looks good, many factions alive and kicking, including that some rebellions occur and change regions-course for a while, from the major factions, only Tokugawa and Imagawa are erased (by Oda of course), and then later Uesegi by Takeda, which got parallel big issues with Ikko Ikki, Ikko Ikki also attacked recently Oda, who fought them back (1 lost region at least), however now Oda is at war with Takeda, Hojo and Ikko Ikki, what stops him significantly. Many, really many "minor" factions are alive and make a good play, campaign-wise it's a good step further now, along my campaign-balance-goals.
Did the alliance war support pay? Did any AI vassalize another AI minor?
And I have lots of ideas (got them while playtesting) in my mind which i wanna put into the upcoming release version to complement the course of the campaign-balance-style, and many of your thoughts went into that design recently, i would be happy if you still wanna playtest and suggest to the S2R+ approach, your contribution is highly appreciated, although S2R+ is never designed to support total what-if, i would feel honored if you stay aside (the what-if happens anyway if a player chooses a certain faction, and plays just as he wants, ie. complete ahistorical, ie. destroys Oda as soon as he can - but i'm making my mods for myself in the first place for my personal playstyle, for the kind of immersion and flavour which i need).
Of course. I'll help you in any way I can. :)
Of course. I'll help you in any way I can. :)
Thank you :)
I'm still in favour for the mod, also as player if i choose a faction like Oda or Shimazu (who are buffed), because i might be able to reach the victory conditions in time ;) ... a RealmDivide mod, or extended campaign victory mod etc. (workarounds for the win conditions via vanilla) might be superflouos then, seriously i had this in my mind all the way - as i started to play this game, it was clear the vanilla difficulty approach is near insane regarding the game victory, you would have to rush all the way, in principle recruit recruit recruit conquer conquer conquer every turn to reach the victory conditions, this is not my cup of coffee for a historical shaped game, because this i would understand as sports-festival where i don't get any immersion etc..
On the contrary side, if i choose not one of the buffed factions, i'll have a harder challenge than with vanilla vs. those factions, unless i manage it to throw them out initially. A challenge can be found always in this mod in the one or other way, here it is for example or especially also the campaign play, which is far more complex in S2R+ with increased realism backgrounds, this provides me fun, and i mod/play for that kind of fun.
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As for some of your points regarding AI. I have actually other experiences, the TW AI is able to act strategically/tactically along their capabilities also if the mod is complex. The problem is the modding, a small turned screw into the wrong direction can have "fatal" impacts, therefor balancing a TW game can be a years-long job. S2 balancing is in principle quite easy as for the map and factions and unit structures etc.. A point to clear is the goal, the approach for the mod. I think i declared it, and ie. if Shimazu (the only key-faction which has still real issues to expand and hold it stable) is able to hold its stand and even expand, then i'll be happy, and the mod is finished, while one can of course adjust and add stuff etc. without end. Edit: ... maybe i give Shimazu finally another AI character ;)
Second, the "alliance" is misunderstood, i meant west- and east alliances led by Shimazu and Oda, this means not that they vassalize minor factions, but conquer them ;) ..how would you else be able to get the victory conditions? Also the AI's take this victory condition into account. Such an approach of collecting vassals would need a modding of the victory conditions, the reduction of win-region numbers in significant number, ie. halfed or much more reduced ... would be a nice mod as well with this design, but also much much more harder to gain, and it would need really weak minor factions who see absolutely no sense to fight vs. you, that's ... hmm ... not a good idea, ie. you come with your 20 unit stack and the threatened AI gives up instantly, because it sees it cannot win the siege-battle, or won't ever attack your region, because it sees your heavy garrisoned castle with your superior units...then again, the human player will always play smarter than the AI... and in such a design, the human player steers the whole campaign. I prefer then a slight stupid AI which defends and attacks even if they can't win, just fighting for their honor along the way of the bushido ;) ... this means not that i want a complete stupid AI, no way, i'm always working on AI support in my mods.
Last but not least, as you say the outcome is predictable, no, it is not. There is enough random factor in the game/mod, and it will always play different along the chosen faction by the human player, it is more different in my mod here, as in vanilla, i think, just due to the complexity of this mod.
V 1.97 uploaded. See changelog.
Noted, unfortunately I can't even see it before this week end. Extremely busy at work. :(
I liked the notes about buffind one faction or another because they are surrounded by enemies... it's the age of the country at war, they are ALL surrounded by enemies. :)
Damn that's why we need a strong diplomacy rework...
About the recruiting, did you consider the idea of the "troops in evolution" ? (start with poor stats, then new building gives bit better stats and increased numbers)
I also like the idea of lowering some stats. In S2R+ I think troops stand too long. Battles are overly bloody and there's never a mass rout. Most casualties are in actual combat.
What do you mean with experience threshold heavily upped? (Must be silly Qs but since I don't have time to test before the week end, I am too curious to wait)
Probably a major feature to test will be the "radar" and new movement speeds. Can't wait to see it. :)
Damn that's why we need a strong diplomacy rework...
About the recruiting, did you consider the idea of the "troops in evolution" ? (start with poor stats, then new building gives bit better stats and increased numbers)
I also like the idea of lowering some stats. In S2R+ I think troops stand too long. Battles are overly bloody and there's never a mass rout. Most casualties are in actual combat.
What do you mean with experience threshold heavily upped?
Strong diplo: Not sure, if this is really needed. Ie. if factions primarily don't fight each other but build alliances, to what will lead this? AI is dependent on the codes, human player not, such a design in the end will mere help the human player, not the AI.
Also, if a faction has more than 1-2 allies, it will go on the costs of other factions who have not the luck to get allies, in result i think there is no positive effect, other thant that it is more historical reflected if there are bigger alliances, the gameplay might not be the winner.
Evolution recruitment troop quality: No, quite some work that would be, needs time i normally have not. Also, this is reflected to a degree already, ie. the "late" yari ashigaru (calling Bushi Yari) are way more capable than the default starting Ashigaru, besides this, experience ups via building/researchment offers this to a degree. But recently i followed your thought to decrease/cap strictly the exp points via buildings, they are all even now, max 1 point. Look, exp points primarily just up morale, melee and defence skill and accuracy and reload, what you would do else via different troop quality (difference ie mere then only unit number if this is different). But now, as recruitment brings out the same quality, battle exp is more important, while the gaining of exp levels and its bonus is harder to get now, so a Samurai will have always relative more capability, even if a good Ashigaru with some exp comes, but the best Ashis will be a danger for Samurai, as for numbers and gained skill. I consider this indeed more balanced in regard of chances for the factions if we bring out even skilled units per buildings without big differences. If we make an evolution of different troop quality per building tiers, then a faction with less money who can't construct it, can't recruit such units, and has never a chance to win a (mid-late) battle (here always viewed for the AI).
Lowering stats, routing: That might be apoint to revise for the combat model, yes.
Exp threshold: A file manages this, there are 9 xp levels (so a unit can get max level 9 xp, i think), every level has a threshold value, just higher per level, which i understand as delay-sum for the xp levels. I upped the values heavily from on xp level 3, real high exp units should be near impossible now. While auto-resolve battle always gives more xp automatically, so a cheat could be to autocalc battles, but where the fun then? Anyway, me personally, if i playtest i autocalc, but only as for time anf to see the default battle outcome, if i play a real campaign, i play every battle.
Still to the recruitment theme: Now since the 1.9x versions i added units to lower tier buildings. I still play with the thought to put the yari and sword ronin into the castle tiers (now it requires the sake den building) what you suggested, ie. indeed from on fort, but latest from on stronghold, also money plays a higher role then. My sorrow then is Shimazu, that recruitment design could kill them with certainty. However we can test this. Or another way: Two S2R+ variants, just one would offer a design that increases the challenge for a Shimazu player or Oda etc., the other (default as of yet) is a mere AI balancing in favour of the major key factions.
Edit: On a second thought, i guess the two variants model is a good idea, and quick done. The S2R+.pack files will be different named then, the "default" one is then "_Key-Majors" (reflects the whole mod-design as of yet to support the major key factions Oda, Shimazu and also Mori). The other variant then"_Key-Non-Majors", that means if you play Shimazu or Oda or whomever, the challenge is increased, while the probability that ie. Oda-AI or Shimazu-AI (ie. you play Date or Chosokabe) to survive/expand is clearly decreased.
Is there also a way to increase the factor for disbanding units with heavy losses? Sometimes I get to very low numbers but the unit is not disbanded. By using CTLM the game bypasses the fact different experience can't be mixed in the same unit and so you are basically able to replenish good troops with bad ones. I said 66% losses are a good compromise so that if a unit of 99 base man loses 66, those 33 remaining have got to be disbanded.
Do you think this is possible?
As of the alliances it's how it really happened, they were super important and many clans were doomed for betrayal, so many it's useless to recount them. You can't really fight the whole Japan single handedly but if you can keep good allies from the start when you are about to become Shogun they will not attack you (realm divided). I think if the allies are kept strong with the ally help factor, it would be very interesting and it would keep many clans active for longer. Meanwhile I have read that Darth enabled a much more active Ashikaga shogunate which now behaves as a real faction, that would also be nice in S2R+.
Finally, you said so yourself, according to the player's choice of clan there might have to be different files. That's because you picked the path of history against the what if which is easier. :) :) :)
I dled the update but had no time to play, will do the possible this week end.
A next update 1.97.5 will be released today, probably. I've got too good ideas in the meantime to hold them back.
Do you think this is possible?
Iirc. it is possible in ETW and NTW, need to find the file and column. Edit: Can't find it, but if, then i'm with you, the suggested percentages are good, if Samurai, the left 33% will make seppuku ;) and if peasant Ashis, go home.
Meanwhile I have read that Darth enabled a much more active Ashikaga shogunate which now behaves as a real faction, that would also be nice in S2R+.
Interesting, but hmm, will delay the course of the campaign-play, i guess, and more a total what-if, maybe some day in future as extra content, i'll do such a thing.
I really urge you to study the DMS files. A guy in the DMS feedback thread has found a way without boosting to save the Oda Clan. He basically managed to make Tokugawa go on one side and Oda on the other as per historical paths. This for you who are a history fan might very well be the cherry on the cake because if this can be done with Oda it can be done with anyone (and that's probably what he's going to do with Ashikaga who, by v2.35 are supposed to expand but don't... it is IIRC a small mod that is compatible with dms, it's all in the feedback thread of DMS and it would save you a lot of time, besides Darth is a guru in modding... there's always something to learn from him). You could for example tell Shimazu to fight Ito first and not Sagara, tell Sagara to fight Otomo first and so on. Naturally... this logic doesn't ensure the clan will actually make it but ... at least diplomatically it will help keeping the AI alive (i.e. shimazu won't die so soon).
Anyway, I really really hope you can find that file. (Neither DMS nor SR2+ disband low number units but IIRC vanilla does). There's something amiss.
Please, include in the next update ALL the files you are using for SR2+ and not just the SR2+ pack because I want to create a folder to keep them in for safety purposes.
I was surprised to see the new bow "ronin" (wako) and I like it. Meanwhile, congrats on another excellent choice, the teppo ashigaru recruitable in Satsuma. You're right of course, the Shimazu bought the first teppo then duplicated them later on but they were surely the first ones to employ the fire arms (and not the clan Otomo at Bungo). Excellent.
I was surprised also to see the melee ronin was missing. I didn't understand why and then I found it was recruitable from Osumi (but not Satsuma). What changed? A localized recruiting capability where the wako can come from Satsuma while the melee ronin comes from Osumi? I think ronins should be recruitable at any tier level in any province. Anyway their current upkeep cost seems rather low and, yet again, I think ashi should have a higher upkeep, the second highest (ranking should be: ronin most expensive, ashi right second, samurai third). That would ensure a sort of "population cap", especially if the numbers are corrected. IIRC statistically samurai were really few when compared to ashigaru numbers. Perhaps 3 to 1, hence a bow ashi of 90 men should correspond to a bow sam of 30 men only. You can do this because you have an outstanding barrage of differently armed ashigaru to keep things lively (and appropriate), if you want.
So what is the logic behind the wako and ronin? Why 1 in satsuma and the other in osumi? Just curious.
The yashi recruitable after bushido is learned costs more than the standard yashi... it requires an art, it costs more but has worse combat stats... odd. I had already noticed it, is it intentional? I don't understand why.
The bow as a weapon is one of the hardest to master and a weapon for the elite not for the masses. I think the bow ashi are too numerous, too deadly and think their accuracy should be just slightly lowered (still much lower than the bow sam's) as well as their morale (they seem to hold too much at lev 0xp).
Besides I didn't count how much ammo do they have as BASE (without the art that doubles it)? Shouldn't they have the same ammo as the bow sams? Quivers don't come in different sizes but I have no historic data at hand. I have the impression it's too much ammo already and when doubled it's even more.
There's a prob with sieges (another one lol). Have you checked how many men are lost by the defender if the attacker keeps the siege? After one season has passed, the losses are just THREE men. Can you do something about that (checked in hyuga, castle lev1)? Same should be in winter for attrition losses.
Also, the losses implied in the autoresolve seem a bit too off when compared to the manual battle. This is especially true in sieges where the attacker should be more heavily penalyzed. Wht I am saying is that it seems to me it's easier to win by autoresolve (and not just in sieges) because losses are equally shared among all troop types while if you manuallly do the siege you will take many many more losses.
Please see if you can make the mod reduce the number of provinces needed to win and force more vassals. Vassals are useful. They fight pirates, they fight battles, give you half their koku and you can trade with them for extra money whereas it's very hard to trade with other major clans. Factions that are about to be killed should actually ask to become vassals but it's the AI that should do that when convenient (sometimes it is but right now if you need 25 provinces at least it's a suicide to take a vassal instead of its last province).
I started a Chosokabe campaign on h/h and it is really difficult to earn money without main land land trade which makes everything else hard as well. Is there anyway you could mod the game to make it so the Chosokabe could land trade if they capture a province on the main land?
build a light bune asap and go East to make first contact with other clans. Chosokabe needs a very careful go at the beginning but once you've got the trading port you're good to go because you have a major resource: wood.
while the melee ronin comes from Osumi?
That's a wako sword warrior, all wako's are recruitable by default via "pirate's lair" building (name? or something).
The yashi recruitable after bushido is learned costs more than the standard yashi... it requires an art, it costs more but has worse combat stats... odd. I had already noticed it, is it intentional? I don't understand why.
Did you notice the name-part Inaka? And house name Shimazu? The Shimazu is a house soldier, merely standing army, the Inaka is peasant, raised from the region. Therefor needs more time to getting them being "soldiers" and more money as they are not available for harvesting the land.
The bow as a weapon is one of the hardest to master and a weapon for the elite not for the masses.
Therefor the recruitable number is limited. Bow Ashis are a sort of semi-elite Ashigaru soldier in my mod. Btw., there is a thread "Unit Guides".
Bow Samurai are standard Samurai (besides the Yari Samurai), fire a few deadly arrows and go into melee. Samurai's were trained and equipped with bow, yari and sword, this is not possible to reflect - the compromise in this mod is the bow Samurai who is an expert archer and uses this weapon short. For arrow raining, the Bow Ashi is the one. As for lethality, some guys found out that the number of casualties per battle by arrowswas significant in the period. I formerly had weaker arrow lethality what made Ashi archers not cost-effective, if this now might disbalance battles, i can reduce it again ... but after all they are expensive units, and also have good melee value.
There's a prob with sieges (another one lol). Have you checked how many men are lost by the defender if the attacker keeps the siege? After one season has passed, the losses are just THREE men. Can you do something about that (checked in hyuga, castle lev1)? Same should be in winter for attrition losses.
Also, the losses implied in the autoresolve seem a bit too off when compared to the manual battle. This is especially true in sieges where the attacker should be more heavily penalyzed. Wht I am saying is that it seems to me it's easier to win by autoresolve (and not just in sieges) because losses are equally shared among all troop types while if you manuallly do the siege you will take many many more losses.
There is a file that can influence autocalc battles, perhaps i'll take a look.
Please see if you can make the mod reduce the number of provinces needed to win and force more vassals. Vassals are useful. They fight pirates, they fight battles, give you half their koku and you can trade with them for extra money whereas it's very hard to trade with other major clans. Factions that are about to be killed should actually ask to become vassals but it's the AI that should do that when convenient (sometimes it is but right now if you need 25 provinces at least it's a suicide to take a vassal instead of its last province).
The problem is the win conditions are not simple db files, it needs startpos.esf modding. I wanted to avoid that.
https://img90.imageshack.us/img90/7696/unitstats.jpg
Here's a little analisys of the unitstats in regards with some of the basic units recruitable by Shimazu at the first turns (just conquered Osumi). There's something to discuss about.
I grouped in color-code stats that can be assimilated to multiple unit types (i.e. green is used by everyone while grey only by missile troops) for ease of reference.
Since these numbers make no sense when taken by themselves but do make sense in comparison with the numbers of other unit-types, I'll begin with the upkeep with my personal opinion on each relevant stats and stating since now it's guessed figures to be fully tested (which is relatively easy indeed, much less problematic than it seems) before actual implementations.
I'll take the basic value of 10 for morale (as I said many times the troops of SR2+ but also of other mods stand ground too much) so all troopers should have a basic value of 10 with the current modifiers. The CLASS is the main modifier, secondly, missile troops have a negative modifier for morale because they are skirmishers (as you can see, modifiers are ultra light. The concept starts around the MAN and how he is employed not the numbers which must be similar to one another and much less relevant).
A-Teppo -1 (is missile unit) = 9
A-Shin Tachi 0 =10
S-Ronin Daikyu (Samurai units should have +3, [ronin +2] but missile = -1) = 11
A-Naginata 0 = 10
A-Yari Shimazu 0 =10
A-Yari Inaka 0 = 10
I'm taking the same base for combat stats of 10 (green). Here it's the CLASS and the WEAPON that make the difference plus the unit type.
Melee Attack
A-Teppo sword +1 minus missile troop -1 =0
A-Shin Tachi sword +1 (is melee unit) = 11
S-Ronin Daikyu sword +1 (is missile unit -1)= 10
A-Naginata 0 (not as effective in the fray because it's cumbersome) = 10
A-Yari Shimazu 0 (more cumbersome than nag -1 and it's def weapon -1) = 8
A-Yari Inaka 0 (same as above) = 8
Obviously, after the charge bonuses are discarded the sword is the strongest weapon but do mind that samurai here have higher morale and sword equipped will beat other weapons both in morale and in melee attack (they kill more). Missile troops also are losing in melee. This is obviously intended to have balance in realistic unit numbers where ashi are 3 times more numerous but at disadvantage with morale and skill.
Melee Defense
A-Teppo sword +1 minus missile troop -1 =0
A-Shin Tachi sword +1 (is melee unit so has no penalty) = 11
S-Ronin Daikyu sword +1 (is missile unit -1)= 10
A-Naginata 0 (not as effective in the fray because it's cumbersome) = 10
A-Yari Shimazu 0 (more cumbersome -1 but +1 is def weapon) = 10
A-Yari Inaka 0 (same as above) = 10
Charge Bonus (10 = 0 = no charge bonus)
A-Teppo sword 0 has no charge bonus minus missile troop =10
A-Shin Tachi sword 0 has no charge bonus but is melee unit +1 = 11
S-Ronin Daikyu sword 0 has no charge bonus - missile troop -1)= 10
A-Naginata +1 (long slashing weapon) = 11
A-Yari Shimazu +2 (longer stabbing weapon) = 12
A-Yari Inaka +2 (same as above) = 12
Bonus vs Cavalry (10 = 0 = no bonus)
A-Teppo sword 0 has no bonus minus missile troop -1 = 9
A-Shin Tachi sword 0 has no bonus = 10
S-Ronin Daikyu sword 0 has no bonus - missile troop -1)= 9
A-Naginata +1 (long slashing weapon) = 11
A-Yari Shimazu +2 (longer stabbing weapon) = 12
A-Yari Inaka +2 (same as above) = 12
Armor
The japanese never made a mystery of their armor being just a bit more than fashional... but the samurai DO have an armor, ashigaru basically had a lot less than an armor indeed. Some were even armorless.
10= armor = 10 (selected guessed basic value)
A-Teppo ashigaru -1, missile troop -1 = 8
A-Shin Tachi ashigaru -1, melee +1 = 10
S-Ronin Daikyu Samurai +2 - missile troop -1)= 11
A-Naginata ashigaru -1, melee +1 = 10
A-Yari Shimazu ashigaru -1, melee +1 = 10
A-Yari Inaka ashigaru -1, melee +1 = 10
Range (here it's about weapon type and training skill) 10=basic value
Teppo had a maximum range of 150yds (though I doubt they could really hit anything beyond 100yds) while the shortbow (bow ashi) was effective at 200yds and the longbow (bow Sam) almost got to 300 yds. Range is one main factor but accuracy is the most important factor. These 2 are linked and must be compromised together.
A-Teppo ashigaru = 150
S-Ronin Daikyu Samurai = 300
A-Daikyu Ashigaru / Wako = 200
S-Daikyu Samurai = 300
Reload skill (I think it's reload time + reload skill in S2TW) taking the expressed value as SECONDS between reloads.
A-Teppo ashigaru (very difficult to reload in combat, each shot should take about a minute time and I am taking as reference the U.S. civil war muskets where a GOOD soldier could shoot 3 rounds per minute) = 45
S-Ronin Daikyu Samurai = 20
A-Daikyu Ashigaru / Wako = 30
S-Daikyu Samurai = 20
Accuracy (taking 10 as base value, most likely this factor is heavily modified by weather/distance. This stat can be used as master to affect the effectiveness of all missile troops in combat thus giving more relevance to melee vs missile which was traditionally more inclined to the Sengoku Jidai warfare)
A-Teppo ashigaru (very accurate +5) = 15
S-Ronin Daikyu Samurai (trained) +2 = 12
A-Daikyu Ashigaru / Wako (poor) = 10
S-Daikyu Samurai (trained) +2 = 12
Ammo
Very easy here it's about number of shots but having no reference I am guessing the size of quivers and balls+flint+powder for teppo.
A-Teppo ashigaru = 24 (half the standard value of US civil war equip)
S-Ronin Daikyu Samurai = 12 (good arrows)
A-Daikyu Ashigaru / Wako = 16 (poor arrows)
S-Daikyu Samurai (trained) = 12 (good arrows)
Upkeep
Here the concept is simple, the base value of one soldier is 1 rice bowl a day per 1 year divided on 4 seasons. This means this value has to keep in mind the Samurai/ashigaru ratio in the armies which was basically 3 to 1 (actually much much much more in favor of ashigaru). For ease of reference I am making the count on a Samurai unit being 30 men (all samurai units being the same size) while Ashigaru units are 90 men size.
Also, Ronin cost more than anyone else in upkeep, should be recruitable everywhere (according to the structures, I like the idea of the wako daikyu and ronin shin tachi difference) and have high replenishment rates.
Ashigaru should have intermediate replenish rate and high upkeep (arms stripped off the agriculture!) and clan samurai should have low replenishment rate, very low upkeep and very low recruiting costs. I'm making a table for ease of reference.
Type Number Recruit Upkeep Replenish Max units
Ashigaru 90 Medium High Medium Unlimited
Samurai 30 Low Very low Low Many
Ronin 60 Very high Very high Very fast More than Samurai
(Extra modifiers: Siege unit recruiting and upkeep + 50%, Cavalry unit recruit and Upkeep + 25%, missile unit recruiting and upkeep +10% ) The estimated upkeep cost of a 90 man ashigaru unit (the weapon used for melee makes no difference but of course 10% to be added in case there's swordsmith in the province) is 90k per month meaning 270k per turn (just for the food!). Such system would require a thorough estimation of how many men each single region may sustain so that the upkeep expenses + the limits on samurai and ronin numbers may effectively add a population cap which is missing in S2TW.
Now this is more or less what I had in mind. Of course it's just a few figures and basic concepts, I more expressed it so you understood where I start from (1 man) and how then everything else adds up to make the army. Back to playing S2R+, if you survive reading this post, let me know what you think. :laugh4:
I hope I didn't mess up too much with maths ... lol :dizzy2:
AHAHAHAHAHA
Good God ... lol ... no, not a problem, i know far more complicated unit models.
I like your cost-approach there somehow, but it would change everything, the whole balance would change, my friend. This would need a lot testing-phase in how far the impact works, perhaps one can leave the other cashflow model of the mod as is. However, i would like to test it somehow, also some of your combat-change ideas, but i have to look into it deeper, only crossread as of yet. But really, as already expressed, i wanted to finish the mod soon ... but your contributions are too valuable to miss them in this mod, so the development might go on after v2.0 (which was planned as final version). Your model could be a new design-approach, which could be stuff for a S2R+ relaunch after v2.0.
Btw., you should enter the dev forum as S2R+ team member, so we can discuss etc. all such complete new approach-things internal. For this you look at the "Settings" tab, and there you go for group-membership application (edit: here calls "permission-groups" .. i'll check this when log-in the next time to see if you applied for that).
Btw., i found and will apply (implement) the Oda-Tokugawa vassal mod, big thanks for this tipp :)
The point of my suggestion on starting as scratch is that this is the only way to develop things slowly but consistently towards the final goal which is perfectly reachable, unlike in other games. Once the basic concept of history is commonly shared in dev schemes, then it's rather easy to say: hey, this is a game designed to sell to the masses, we can make it somehow 100 times better by taking out the crap of it and making people understand it's not a shopping center, it's war and troops must be used accordingly.
A strong melee requires a strong armor to stop units from dying too soon, however, this messes up with missile damage. It's just an example of how ***the more you get away from the MAN factor (1 man = 1 man not 1 superman) the more things start to go bad***. (I think it's possible to slow down the combat animations, wouldn't that allow longer battles with more time to react? What does the other .pack file do?)
I am particularly concerned about the terrain/weather factors. You can for example alter the bonus vs cavalry but you CAN'T alter the Guard ability factors, how much the weather will affect missile hit ratio, how BAD the cavalry will behave when fighting in the woods and so on. The hard-coded factors must match with the unitstats file and do not forget the more XP, Arts, equipment (etc etc etc etc) get into the game the more things will go awry. Cavalry for example never seems to get really tired. It keeps running up and down the field (but in a more general sense, all troops in SR2+ seem to never get tired enough according to me because their combat stats are already highly affected by too many positive factors and fatigue has been blessed and said goodbye).
The AI of SR2+ behaves very well I have some more data after this morning of tests. First of all, despite the so many units you introduced which have no corresponding factors in vanilla I just met and defeated a sallying out Shoni army at Bungo in a 1200 vs 1200 battle (he shouldn't have sallied out but that's really something HARD to find I guess) and its troops were VERY finely balanced between missile, different ashi and a few ronin and samurai. Outstanding.
The typical result is that I won and in the following siege I had something like 800 men vs 40 men of the AI. Such is the catastrophe when the units fight for too long. They are so exhausted they can't escape the chase and it's the opposite of what should happen. We must absolutely keep the AI armies alive even when defeated... on the winning side I did lose 1/3rd of my men and yet no units were disbanded (that's another thing we must absolutely find. In vanilla it does work though the threshold is still too low imho)... still, because of your excellent idea of making maximum number of (some) units capped, CTL M is mandatory and so some units are lost in the reshuffle (though sadly, the experience mix should make the new units drop and it doesn't, damn CA, but better than nothing). Perhaps lowering the general's morale is the key so that when his unit is weak he will rout taking his army with him, and making it fight another day. PERHAPS I said... impossible to say without starting from "scratch". What's sure is that I seldom win without killing a general in battle and that's very bad. He seems to be pretty reckless.
Meanwhile:
1) Todofuken ability is supposed to give you the knowledge of building the roads. However this doesn't happen, the option is still greyed out after having the art (and the money). Probably you associated the roads to the Equal fields (just straight below Todofuken) which I would associate to trade posts & roads. Check that out.
2) My monk has spreaded rebellion all around Shoni's lands, however the spawned armies are well too weak to trouble the defenders. Shoni is Christian, my Monk is Zen so it should be a religious revolt with greater numbers and possibly a few ronins. If it's possible, there's room for improvement here.
3) I recruited and produced both teppo units. The ability to fire in ranks is MISSING so they only do the volley. However, I noticed something that I had been looking for: the LOS concept. CA this time did it nice, Muskets are not able to fire above your own troops so they don't shoot if they don't have a line of sight, while archers do. I was happily surprised. :)
4) Chosokabe in the hands of the AI also seems rather weak. Sagara didn't do anything while I conquered Ito and declared war on Shoni. It's still camping in Higo with castle full of troops... too static. Chosokabe ... well I can't see from Kyushu but definitely didn't conquer a single province so far... either static or constantly being defeated (without elimination though).
Currently it's year 1548.
5) We could use more generals (more requests to enlist) They seem to be rather too few.
6) It's somehow odd to see that at the first round of siege (stronghold) the shoni armi lost THREE men in 3 months (1 season) of siege... damn that's bad.
7) Winter losses seem too little. 2 men per unit in a winter season.
GShock, please head over to the private dev forum (internal 1.97.5 is waiting for a download by you).
I got it, seen changelog, ready. :)
Sorry if you've already discussed this topic, but over at twcenter.net there was a topic (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=434941) about the AI spawning units out of the player's view, which isn't really a fair challenge but a poor substitute for one. Yarkis de Bodemloze came up with a beta mod (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=150052&d=1300633011) to fix it. I think this is something to look into that could make this mod better.
Sorry if you've already discussed this topic, but over at twcenter.net there was a topic (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=434941) about the AI spawning units out of the player's view, which isn't really a fair challenge but a poor substitute for one. Yarkis de Bodemloze came up with a beta mod (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=150052&d=1300633011) to fix it. I think this is something to look into that could make this mod better.
Thanks, It's known. If you scroll through the thread, you'll see that i commented there as well (mere the last pages).
In S2R+ i have solved that issue in the meantime (since a few versions), at least i never encountered such sudden unit uprisings since ages*. If you experience that though, please describe the situations.
* what i mean here rather is that AI didn't apply unit caps, else, in general i don't believe in AI unit spawns out of thin air.
Info for the meantime: Me and GShock working deeply on the S2R+ development, many things will be changed/improved with the upcoming public version.
Hey LZ, seeing you currently here ... always a pleasure :)
Lord Zimoa of Flanders
06-10-2011, 22:44
Hi, tried your mod a weekend a few weeks ago, as usual liked it, sadly no time to play now. :-)
A few weeks of releasing Panzer Corps, I hope you give it a try.
Cheers,
Tim aka LZ
Lord Zimoa of Flanders
06-10-2011, 23:12
Hi DaVinci,
If you want.
Register here:
http://www.slitherine.com/sign_up
Sign in on the Panzer Corps Beta here:
http://www.slitherine.com/beta_test/panzer_corps_pc
Than mail me your registered name at Slitherine, so I can get you into the Panzer Corps Beta and you can give us your feedback.
Hi LZ, i watch the Lordz now go for WWII scenarios, interesting. I know the Slitherine engine/company, since they popped up in the middle of the 2000's years, and had issues to hold with the other engines in regard of popularity, but i heard it shall be a good engine.
Unfortunately, as for RL, i have only still time to develop/support the S2R+ mod, so any other engagements pc-game wise are impossible for me, as you know, i run an office of my own as architect/consultant.
But keep us informed about your dev-studio forthcoming, please. Fantastic story, that a former modding-dev-group went on to become a professional pc game company :)
However, i promise, whenever i have free time for such an undertaking of betatesting a title of your company, i'll come, ie. i might stop the deep modding of TWS2 soon, when a certain version/stand is achieved.
Btw., i also recommend to get GShock as beta tester, he is actually a professional tester, but i hope he'll stay for now in my S2R+ development ;)
What would be your thoughts on making cannons recruit-able to any faction with the right building regardless of their religion? Because in my experience it takes many hours to even get to the point where you can recruit cannons, but I have no desire to convert my clan because of all the initial negative effects
What would be your thoughts on making cannons recruit-able to any faction with the right building regardless of their religion? Because in my experience it takes many hours to even get to the point where you can recruit cannons, but I have no desire to convert my clan because of all the initial negative effects
Can you research this, historical backgrounds?
If the result is that all clans (or most) had field-cannon access in the Sengoku period, then yes, i'll remove the religion-requirement for the next version.
Theme is also interesting for ships with cannons.
I will try to find if there are a reasonable amount of historical facts that would support the cannons being unlock to every religion
Ok, thanks. It is mere a question if the clans used them commonly in the according period, not so much a question religion-wise, because Japan wasn't converted to christianity, only very small parts of the population was (vanilla reflects this 100 % wrong with the given vanilla design, S2R+ is adjusting this "feature" to a bit more realism, while i keep the option of catholic converted clans who possess a nanban trade port).
In principle all clans shall get access to cannons in S2R+ if the researchment shows that field (and naval) cannons were used widely in Japan during the Sengoku period.
A. The ōzutsu (大筒), a swivel breech-loading cannon, 16th centuryIn the 1570s cannons became a common part of the samurai’s armoury. They often were mounted in castles or on ships, being used more as anti-personnel weapons than against castle walls or the like, though in the siege of Nagashino castle (1575) a cannon was used to good effect against an enemy siegetower. The first popular cannon in Japan were swivel-breech loaders nicknamed kunikuzushi or “province destroyers”. Kunikuzushi weighed 264 lb (120 kg). and used 40 lb (18 kg). chambers, firing a small shot of 10 oz. The Arima clan of Kyushu used guns like this at the battle of Okinawate against the Ryūzōji clan. By the time of the Osaka campaign (1614-1615), cannon technology
had improved in Japan to the point where at Osaka, Ii Naotaka managed to fire an 18 lb (8.2 kg). shot into the castle’s keep.
B. pg: 29,
Mostyly on ships or mounted on cannons
Might want to increase the accuracy on samurai teppo, one story by a Duke Ferdinand describes a samurai using a gun for hunting geese, ducks, and pheasants which would clearly take a high level of accuracy
Pg, 31
Source A- http://everythingninja.wordpress.com/category/a-close-look-into-ninja-things/
Source B- http://books.google.com/books?id=4Ete0zPAnjwC&pg=PA126&lpg=PA126&dq=ISBN+0879237732&source=bl&ots=YRgTsXFAxB&sig=Wlb9NIMNIqnV8wW3CZU7Ga_VfF4&hl=en&ei=6HH6TcLuCYPYgQfE_p2JBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CFIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
(Sorry about the few sources, but this what I've come up with so far and if you think it is insufficient I can do more research.)
From what I gathered it seems like you could go either way and either both decisions would and wouldn't make sense historically mainly because cannons were not used commonly as siege weapons but rather against soldiers, ironically they were more likely to be mounted on castles then shot at them.
But as far as "could" any clan have gained accesses to cannons it seems likely because closer towards the end of 16th century gunsmiths in Japan were catching up to Europeans and even in some cases were more advanced (e.g. some matchlocks crafted in Japan were designed in a way that allowed them to fire in the rain, such designs re unknown in Europe during the period).
And Japanese cannon technology improved greatly from around the 1570s with cannons shooting a shot of about 10oz to 1610s where they shot weighed around 18lbs..
If you believe the cannons in STW2 are somewhere in the middle of this with destructive power then I would say it would be justified to have them.
This is completely unrelated to several topics but about random unit spawning
I was about take North Santo (province north of the Takeda captial) from the Ikko-Ikki, and although I was in the province I was still a turn away from besieging the castle. Then out of seemingly no where an army of 6 fresh ashigaru units (3 yari and 3 yumi) accompanied by 2 fresh Murakami family generals (the clan had been destroyed for more then several turns by now) took the province and I was booted out for "tactical withdraw".
I'm guessing this explains how every now and then a "New clan has raised" but I do not think that was fair.
(Sorry about the few sources, but this what I've come up with so far and if you think it is insufficient I can do more research.)
From what I gathered it seems like you could go either way and either both decisions would and wouldn't make sense historically mainly because cannons were not used commonly as siege weapons but rather against soldiers, ironically they were more likely to be mounted on castles then shot at them.
But as far as "could" any clan have gained accesses to cannons it seems likely because closer towards the end of 16th century gunsmiths in Japan were catching up to Europeans and even in some cases were more advanced (e.g. some matchlocks crafted in Japan were designed in a way that allowed them to fire in the rain, such designs re unknown in Europe during the period).
And Japanese cannon technology improved greatly from around the 1570s with cannons shooting a shot of about 10oz to 1610s where they shot weighed around 18lbs..
If you believe the cannons in STW2 are somewhere in the middle of this with destructive power then I would say it would be justified to have them.
Your research-results are good enough, Tyler, thanks. I'll remove the religion requirement, and will look that they become not available too soon in the campaign (and heavily capped anyway).
cool, glad I could contribute to the mod in some small way!
but hey did you read my post about the random Murikami clan spawn?
cool, glad I could contribute to the mod in some small way!
but hey did you read my post about the random Murikami clan spawn?
Why "fair"? The mod shall not be fair ;)
In fact, this is vanilla basic and mod setting unrest model, but as far as i can experience, the sudden clan-uprisings have decreased in the S2R+ mod. If it still happens now and then, i'm rather glad about it, it's still a challenge feature.
Ok I think understand your point, and from a realistic view it does make sense to have unpredictable events happen like that especially in a time of civil war.
1. Have you thought about making it easier for generals to level up? I do not know at all how experience is gained but seems like barely any experience is gained for castle defenses and overall it just take forever to level up. I think the highest I ever got was a level 4 general
2. Also what's your opinion on weapon(max adds like 4 or more attack) and armor(max adds 4 or more defense) smiths? Does it reflect the overall strategy of the campaign map vs how that affects battles or is it a little stupid?
3. Any idea where you guys are with the intense game testing? I bet I'm not the only one who checks the forum daily for updates!!!
For now re 3.: Since the release 1.97, i work intensive together with GShock on improvements like
- Global balancing, means how are doing the major AI factions (major = playable). Goal is still for example to keep Shimazu, Oda, Mori and also Takeda or also Ikko and Uesegi in the game, as long as possible (this is one of my main personal goals, which i testify via Chosokabe H difficulty test campaigns, while i adjust several relevant code-values).
- Besides the goal to keep the campaign a financial challenge (nothing is more boring as to have infinite money available).
- GShock is focusing on Shimazu-playtesting (aside to several general observations which motivate me to look at certain very relevant things), just how he can make it as Shimazu player, and recently his experience is that the financial challenge is too high, and progress wasn't possible, but he tested there on VH. Now he shall playtest on H, and we'll see.
- At present a focus is again the battle/combat mode, we wanna improve some things there (realism backgrounds, but adjusted with gameplay backgrounds, the latter thing is more important).
Achieved by now, roughly:
- Added is the Oda-Tokugawa vassal mod, it'll be firm part of the mod, because this finally solves the Oda-vanishing issue.
- The global balance is greatly improved (major keyfactions in AI hands make it better than ever without that certain majors steamroll everything, but certain AI's still have issues, final adjustment is needed).
- The financial challenge is increased.
- The diplo-behaviour is greatly improved, factions trade with each other and keep alliances (of course backstabbing happens still).
- The general CAI is greatly improved.
- The battle mode challenge is pretty much improved, according to GShock one mistake in your tactics can lead to your defeat.
All this is done with the incredible help by GShock, who motivated me greatly to realise the current enhancements.
All in all, along GShocks experience with Shimazu on VH, the challenge in S2R+ is unparalleled. As said, at present (dev version) we have to look if i went overboard with the current campaign-challenge-degree, especially in regard of the cashflow model, easy adjustments to re-enable progress are possible though, but first i need his reports with difficulty H.
Release v1.98 earliest in one week, which is then to see as one of the last open beta versions on the way to final v2.0.
Hope this explains enough the current dev stage.
Thank you for heads up DaVinci.
Eagerly awaiting the next release - knowing your mastery it's hard to wait he he.
One a side note - I don't like how short distance armies can make. Any particular reason for this? Isn't the AI better off if it's reach is bigger?
You have made 2 different Yari Ashigaru unit types. Pure peasants and a more drilled steady army. It's a bit annoying to have the same name and same icons for both.
In my Date campaign I had a foe sneak in my territory but that army just stand there for many turns. When I went after it they started to retreat to their own province. They were standing next to farming building and haven't demolished it. Dunno if this is vanilla (since I haven't played much) or if this is introduced with your mod.
Having a blast otherwise!
Movement points are slightly reduced to slow down steamroller effects, ie. AI shall have more time to recruit.
The different Yari Ashi have not the same name, if you use my custom unit names (english language version is needed). But the same icons, because i have no fx artist, have no time to change tga's, if somebody volunteers i would be glad.
Aha for the movement points. Fair enough.
I have English version of the game language. I'm describing what I get with your vanilla mod - i haven't applied any additional naming mods. Those two different units are named exactly the same - playing the Date clan. Their respective stats are different but not their names.What name should these different Yari-Ashi units have?
Hope somebody volunteers for a 2D artist! I'll ask my friends.
What name should these different Yari-Ashi units have?
As Date clan you have 2 of them, yes. Other clans have even 3 (with different naming, one of these 3 is faction-specific).
The common forms:
Ashigaru - Yari | Inaka
and
Ashigaru - Bushi Yari | Inaka
The ladder is the advanced form of Yari Ashigaru (bushi = warrior). I believe i have listed this also in the Unit Guide thread.
If you don't have these different names, then it's somehow bugged in your installation.
Hope somebody volunteers for a 2D artist! I'll ask my friends.
That would be great. Note, i intend to use the Sengoku Cards mod (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=448768) by Ralendil for S2R+, so the different cards need to apply those as base.
Atm. though it is open if Ralendil himself has time and lust to provide the custom S2R+ unit cards, because there are some more to do.
I see - can't check if bugged or not bugged again for another few days until I come home. If I get any answers I'll let you know but don't hold your breath for it.
Hey Hister, in case you have fun to join the S2R+ dev group, entering the dev forum, apply: Settings/Permission Groups (need a PM from you when you applied that). No duties, just betatesting/-reporting of the newest internal version(s) is needed.
Hey Davinci what are your thoughts on increasing skill points to spend for level-ups(for generals, ninja, monks etc.)?
And possibly decreasing research time on some of the Arts?
Eha, thanx for the invitation Da Vinci - much appreciated! I can apply but I'm a very busy champ so if I manage to play the game it's only here and there so I wouldn't be able to post and playtest regularly or on demand. Don't see how that could be of much help to you but if you are fine with that I'm in.
Note that I won't be around until Monday next week.
Eha, thanx for the invitation Da Vinci - much appreciated! I can apply but I'm a very busy champ so if I manage to play the game it's only here and there so I wouldn't be able to post and playtest regularly or on demand. Don't see how that could be of much help to you but if you are fine with that I'm in.
Note that I won't be around until Monday next week.
Access just enabled :)
I'll also need somebody who can now and then moderate a bit. As you know my modding-style quite good (since we already worked together in 2008, or? was it 2008?), you are a good candidate, i guess you'll understand the backgrounds of the design without big explanations, when you play/learn the mod ( as my time is very limited, as you know, normally i'm retired from modding ;) ). No duties, just when you have time - also my plan is not to make this project still for long, i guess a final version is soon out (afterwards perhaps bugfixing/enhancements, if necessary).
Hey Davinci what are your thoughts on increasing skill points to spend for level-ups(for generals, ninja, monks etc.)?
And possibly decreasing research time on some of the Arts?
Research times are already vastly shortened compared to vanilla. Example: I'm playtesting currently the dev version, and i'm ca. 15 years in the game, now i have reached the horizontal mid line of all bushido and chi arts (of course, the upcoming arts need more time).
As for skill-points, no, i think vanilla is fine there, and it would make the mod easier, probably.
Edit: I haven't touched traits or any such files, there are mods out there of this branch, the ones who think they need that can apply them.
Erm, moderating like answering people's questions on this forum?
Edit: Just checked. The two different Ashigaru Yari units that I reported are actually the starting Ashigaru Yari units and the new ones I built hence the different stats.
Erm, moderating like answering people's questions on this forum?
Lol ... of course only if you know something, not now, not tomorrow, just in future, and naturally only if you like.
Ahaha, fine :D
Check the edit above...
The two different Ashigaru Yari units that I reported are actually the starting Ashigaru Yari units and the new ones I built hence the different stats.
Different unit number, that's all what should be different for those starting units. I already thought about it to give the starting units a separate role (separate name and meaning, perhaps slight different stats), but that would be much work for a very low effect (less game value, just bit more flavor).
Have to go offline now.
Leave it as is.
Good night.
Downloaded the newest version.
Short comment on my recent dev version playtesting in regard of the economical model: (as always playtesting Chosokabe, H) ... this is with custom UAI btw., see public thread "Compatibility: Add Mods".
About 15 years in the game, and i have really a lot money available, progressing is no point here. Means if i start to leave the isle (while Miyoshi is my vassal, left him on the most eastern isle, and Sogo is my ally in his home region), attacking other factions will be a challenging adventure, because the AI factions are strong, the economical options will help, but surely one will have always to plan the investments accurately.
Besides this, battle mode is good balanced, battles are pretty hard to win if the armies are ca. 1:1 deployed, as already said, tactics are relevant, a mistake can cause a desaster, field battles. Siege battles are another thing, the CA vanilla siege bug makes it hard for the AI as assaulter.
Camp wise, AI: Only Uesegi died, Ikko is slightly too strong. All other looks very well, ie. Mori is mighty now, Shimazu expands, Oda expands but is not too mighty (Tokugawa keeps its region as Oda's vassal), Takeda expands, even Hattori expanded, Date are solid there, Hojo as well.
Besides these major AI's, many other AI's are still alive and kicking, pretty less of them vanished.
So i'll try to buff Uesegi slightly more, Ikko will be nerfed a bit.
For 1.98 do we still need to include the "Movement reduction mod" that you added to the 1.96 version?
For 1.98 do we still need to include the "Movement reduction mod" that you added to the 1.96 version?
No, remove that if you have that in the data folder, the movement reduction mod customised comes with the S2R+_1.98 folder now.
Edit: Seems i have to make it more clear in the release thread, will add part of the Addon readme now.
Preview for the last upcoming updates 1.99 and 2.0
Now as i hope the mod is pretty much advanced/finalised gameplay wise, there will be only a few content updates, those are
# Unit Additions:
- Catholic Samurai, a capable matchlock unit (unique for catholic factions), quite early recruitable.
- A medium/semi-elite sword Samurai, recruitable with sword school.
- Possibly making an Onna Bushi recruitment variant, with naginata dojo.
- Possibly new garrison unit: Bomb Thrower variant, from on stronghold.
- Possibly new garrison unit: Ashi Matchlock variant, from on fortress.
# Unit card customisation of the introduced Sengoku Unit Card mod.
... besides of course, slight enhancement due to playtesting experiences/reports (mine, internal playtesters and payers).
Did you unlock cannons for non-Christan factions in 1.98?
Did you unlock cannons for non-Christan factions in 1.98?
Yes. There are always tons of details (changes) which go not into the changelogs, because i would have to write a whole day then (my changelogs are already long enough, i guess less people care to read all that, right ;) ).
hmmmmm, any possible way I could help you with that? by that I mean write all the specific changes SR+ offers to players seeking to know about the mod?
At least all the changes to the non-battle aspects of the game (ex. unit caps, what provides and cost food, diplo, recruitment buildings, unit radius, etc.)
I would be more then willing to do it, and I think it would help advertise the mod if all the info was organized
That would probably be a good thing to do but maybe wait until finalised 2.0 version since more changes will be done. If you don't mind changing stats when the last version is finished then go ahead and write all the changes the game makes - not many major changes re expected anyway.
hmmmmm, any possible way I could help you with that? by that I mean write all the specific changes SR+ offers to players seeking to know about the mod?
At least all the changes to the non-battle aspects of the game (ex. unit caps, what provides and cost food, diplo, recruitment buildings, unit radius, etc.)
I would be more then willing to do it, and I think it would help advertise the mod if all the info was organized
Tyler, that's a good idea indeed, you can make such a thread, try to do that as structured as possible.
Also i invite you to join the team (check Settings/Group Permission, apply there for the S2R+ group, and pm me about it), if you want.
You can test the newest internal version, and else you can help to moderate the public forum, when i'm not around (as Hister does).
Hey Davinci I sent you a PM about my idea and also I believe I applied to the group for which I would by more than willing to help test the newest internal versions and help out with the forum when I can.
Welcome to the team.
---
Info for everybody post v1.98 release.
The mod is currently again in an overhaule phase. Aspects got/get a revision, ie.:
- CAI (ie. naval and trade behaviour, but also general AI priorities)
- Economy (cashflow)
- Building and tech/art properties and impacts
- Cultural impacts (via buddhist, ikko and catholic factors)
- Units (recruitment and capabilities)
- Battle mode (diverse, ie. fatigue, attrition, morale etc. once more in work)
Update v1.99 uploaded.
Expect a quite new campaign experience compared to v1.98.
I think the ikko-ikki conversion rates are a little to high in the beginning, after 8 turns some provinces have reached a 18% of that religion. Maybe if you added like a .5% conversion to clan religion for the Zen art card it could help balance this out a little?
Please continue playing and monitor how is the situation later on. I think new buildings balance this out but Ikko Ikki will be very strong never the less and Oda will gradually push them back. At least that was in my beta testing campaign.
Well, it actually depends on the building-behaviour of the factions, if they gradually construct, the ikko influence is pushed back. However, i'll try to bring them slightly more constructing buddhist temples (for post 1.99 versions), this negates the ikko influence to a good degree.
Maybe if you added like a .5% conversion to clan religion for the Zen art card it could help balance this out a little?
You mean via chi art? There is no such code available afaik, and if done in that way, it would negate the ikko threat very quick.
Edit: Internal update available (1.99.1).
from what I've noticed its the ikko-ikki influences from other provinces that usually spread it fast. In my Uesigi play through even with the Buddhist temple the ikko-ikki faith grew to 10% after 10 turns and was still rising
from what I've noticed its the ikko-ikki influences from other provinces that usually spread it fast. In my Uesigi play through even with the Buddhist temple the ikko-ikki faith grew to 10% after 10 turns and was still rising
Of course, it depends on the bordering regions. Uesegi start region has a lot ikko influence.
Edit: Just check out the settlement-details, that will show you how much points you need to stop the conversion, and which building(s) is needed.
yeah I see what you mean, I just didn't build enough my first go around, but I figured it out my second time. I think I like where you're going with this, it adds a new dynamic to campaign strategy and makes temples more strategic as to where you want to place them to get the most out of their outside influence
yeah I see what you mean, I just didn't build enough my first go around, but I figured it out my second time. I think I like where you're going with this, it adds a new dynamic to campaign strategy and makes temples more strategic as to where you want to place them to get the most out of their outside influence
And i just started an Uesugi campaign, and if i recruit the available monk agent, the buddist conversion rate stands on 100 % in the first turn, Uesugi is with the temple the last faction that has big issues at the start in this regard..
Update 1.99.5 uploaded. Special feature: AUM-Sho custom units integrated.
Additional Units Mod for Shogun 2 (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=429938).
General info:
The recent published version 1.99.5 will stay valid for a while.
The next public release will be the final S2R+ release (2.0).
If somebody is a S2R+ fan, and wants to participate with the internal betatesting, has the time for it, then leave an according post here.
Betatesters must be able to report in a proper manner* about their campaign-playtesting, can provide suggestions which fit to the modding design etc..
Further on should be able to install the mod (internal updates) without issues.
* proper manner: understandable english (no slang or rap style english), structured, short and clear.
I volunteer for this.
Alright Poulp, welcome.
Please go to "Settings" -> "Permission Groups", and apply there for the S2R+ group (the "+" is written there as "plus"). Afterwards please pm me about it (ie. "have applied"), because i don't get an automatical message. I'll give then access to the hidden dev forum.
After a long moment searching Steam's settings for "permission group", I finally found it on the top of this very page.
After a long moment searching Steam's settings for "permission group", I finally found it on the top of this very page.
Steam?
Access given. You can find there an internal version 1.99.6.
I know, I wasn't thinking straight at the time.
Hey Divinci I have a question about updates to this mod in the distant future.
STW2 is relatively new for a total war game, following the series pattern CA is probably going to add more expansion packs to game for a few years. I know that you've been trying to finish this mod, but are going to keep it updated for expansions? For instance the Sengoku Jidai unit pack that recently came out
Hey Divinci I have a question about updates to this mod in the distant future.
STW2 is relatively new for a total war game, following the series pattern CA is probably going to add more expansion packs to game for a few years. I know that you've been trying to finish this mod, but are going to keep it updated for expansions? For instance the Sengoku Jidai unit pack that recently came out
See my recent post in the "CA Patch Updates" thread to the Sengoku Jidai unit pack.
Everything else is open.
Geppenguin
08-05-2011, 17:26
Is it possible for you to nerf/remove the AI buffs on the campaign map? Human players have to deal with the (now much more difficult) task of balancing economy and reduced unit replenishment, while AI faction get free units even if they are in deficit (if I'm not wrong, this has always been so for Total War), resulting in massive armies. The auto-resolve is also pretty screwed up, as it doesn't take fortifications into account very well. Auto-resolving an assault on a castle is always much much better than playing it out. I'm playing as Uesugi, turn 45 I own 2 provinces and have 2 vassals, while the Ikko-Ikki have 6 provinces and are marching on me with 1.5 fullstacks of ashigaru + 2 units of monks.
Is it possible for you to nerf/remove the AI buffs on the campaign map? Human players have to deal with the (now much more difficult) task of balancing economy and reduced unit replenishment, while AI faction get free units even if they are in deficit (if I'm not wrong, this has always been so for Total War), resulting in massive armies. The auto-resolve is also pretty screwed up, as it doesn't take fortifications into account very well. Auto-resolving an assault on a castle is always much much better than playing it out. I'm playing as Uesugi, turn 45 I own 2 provinces and have 2 vassals, while the Ikko-Ikki have 6 provinces and are marching on me with 1.5 fullstacks of ashigaru + 2 units of monks.
Hello and welcome.
Your points:
- The AI gets no free units, there is no indicator in the codes for that, also i never observed that. Exception is the Ashikaga faction (Kyoto), Shogunate.
- Autoresolve battle is in this regard - fortifications - not moddable.
marching 1.5 fullstacks of ashigaru + 2 units of monks.
... try to "slaughter" their 2 Monks units, and then try to rout their Ashigaru's.
Ikko Ikki: They might get some regions due to rebellions (and with this also units), what you see (the 6 regions owned) is not a result of their "superior" units or massive recruitment, they might loose some regions again within the campaign vs. other (stronger) AI.
In the whole: S2R+ is not made to make things really easier for the player ;)
Geppenguin
08-07-2011, 03:06
I know it shouldn't be easier, but I do think that the AI gets some form of financial boost. They never have to deal with deficits and even one province minor clans eventually raise near fullstack armies (even if they are mostly ashigaru). The fact that the AI doesn't lose many troops in auto-resolve also means that the slower rates of replenishment are less punishing on them.
I know it shouldn't be easier, but I do think that the AI gets some form of financial boost. They never have to deal with deficits and even one province minor clans eventually raise near fullstack armies (even if they are mostly ashigaru). The fact that the AI doesn't lose many troops in auto-resolve also means that the slower rates of replenishment are less punishing on them.
The AI gets no financial boosts, the player gets financial penalties as per difficulty setting Hard and higher, you can choose Medium, then you'll have a far, far easier play in this regard (no financial penalty, but even financial help vs. AI, iirc.).
Please, can you provide us with the "fact" that AI looses always less men than the human player with a detailled description of the situation(s)?
I absolutely have not such special experiences.
Btw., which difficulty are you playing? You know you can adjust your battle difficulty besides the camp difficulty in the preferences file?
All in all, the player has way more chances to make a better play than the AI, just because the TW AI wasn't ever and is also in S2 not the best one could wish ;)
Version 2.0 released.
For the ones who have purchased the recent DLC Jidai Unit Pack content: Completely customised to S2R+'s design (balancing).
And many other updates (see changelog since 1.99.5 for the ones who applied at last 1.99.5).
RavenSilvermaine
08-07-2011, 13:30
Im a new member here in this site, and I joined because of DaVinci's wonderful mod. I am a fan of Darth, and been using his works from the recent total war games, and I compared your mods for S2TW and I liked urs the most. Thank you for enhancing the gameplay of the most anticipated and best pc game ever. well, of course congrats to Darth as well.
I have just downloaded the S2r 2.0 and going to try it later. Im using these mods as well -- namely
-->
Alternative CC
Blood mod
BUC mod
Extended campaign
unit variety
Radious's No Sashimono mod
No Projectile trail
I hope there are no bugs or issues. :)
I didn't put the realm divide mod because it might not be compatible with your mod. I was wondering if you also changed the issue about the realm divide.
Ive read from some forums that ur newest ver. have the samurai archers ammo to 3, havent seen it tho, but if it is, Is there a way to increase it to 20? also the naginata units are not that useful because of the sword units that have better melee skills and the same armor as the naginata. ( talking about hte S2r 4.00 ) I was hoping that sword units now would have less armor so that archers could kill them and have the users to use naginata which have higher armor to go against archers, (it's just my idea im not really sure if its correct) lastly I think the General units in the older versions are very strong that yari units cannot kill them, it seems unrealistic.
Hope I could hear from you, Congrats again for your wonderful mod. :)
S2R+ is way different from S2R.
S2R+, to your points:
Samurai bow have 3 arrows, because they represent a standard Samurai (besides the Yari Samurai). Vanilla (and many mods) present this kind of unit wrong, as archer-skirmishers.
You can change this by yourself with the PFM tool* (see TWS2 mod workshop), file land_units_stats, check the colum "ammo", there.
* PFM 1.6.6 (1.6.5) has access to all my land_units_stats files. Except for the Jidai DLC Unit Pack file calling "UP1_land_units_stats" there (which is locked as for CA's patch7 update, not compatible), i was able to change that only with a workaround tool offered by davidlallen.
Sword Samurai represent to a most part close retainer Samurai, very elite (they are very rare), Naginata Samurai have usually slight better armour and more charge, and just a anti-cav bonus - every unit has his purpose, but Samurai (the standard Samurai) have all a very similar skill, but S2R+ has many special and faction-specifc units with specific skill, of all branches.
All spear (if yari or naginata) wielding units can kill Gen/BG units in S2R+, and every other cavalry units.
I recommend to try S2R+ 2.0 as it is, a full campaign (or more), and then judge afterwards.
Of course, one could make some ongoing unit balancing changes (although the battle mode balancing is already very consistent), but for S2R+ i don't intend to make it a never-ending-story, v2.0 is meant as final. Perhaps very slight balancing corrections can follow in a patch-update, maybe if something annoys me horribly when i playtest again ;)
I have just moved a few recent posts to the according thread (Install Issues).
Of course, one could make some ongoing unit balancing changes (although the battle mode balancing is already very consistent), but for S2R+ i don't intend to make it a never-ending-story, v2.0 is meant as final. Perhaps very slight balancing corrections can follow in a patch-update, maybe if something annoys me horribly when i playtest again ;)
All right you can go on holiday now that you released 2.0 but if you tell me your path with modding S2 stops here, sorry I don't believe you. :)
There will be an update, some day still in this year ;) ... but nothing major anymore, bit finetuning/balancing for some certain units.
Plus necessary "bugfixing" (not crash-fixing is meant, as i'm sure the mod is stable), if something appears to be too odd for the majority of the team members and players, ie. this is in particular the army radious on the campaign map, where i'm personally in a mere 49:51 thinking for this item (51 stands for 'remains as is'), it'll be a democratic decision.
And a 'maybe' for this update is, that i still look to adjust the starting diplo for the Oda-Tokugawa-Imagawa relations.
In principle that update runs then under 'patch' of the final build, just corrections.
Short-info: Some global balancing is on the way for the patch on S2R+ v2.0.
Playtesting 2.0 deeper shows that too much rebellions happen in some campaigns (in my experience it depends on the chosen faction), normal and Ikko rebellions, which hurt major factions a bit too much. And especially Uesugi is somehow incapable to keep its gains.
In result following factions get slight, but working balancing adjustments:
Buffing - Uesugi, Mori, Chosokabe, Oda
Nerving - Ikko, Takeda
This, besides global balancing to reduce slightly rebellion factors (main factor, which shall help esp. Mori and Chosokabe, but also Oda).
All right you can go on holiday now that you released 2.0 but if you tell me your path with modding S2 stops here, sorry I don't believe you. :)
You have been right ;)
Patch version 2.4 uploaded.
Patch version 2.5 uploaded.
Patch version 2.6 uploaded.
I know I mentioned cannons a while ago, but I've still have yet to use them in the campaign, mainly because I never accept Nanban trade. According to the historical info about cannons in the sengoku period japanese gunsmiths were making their own cannons towards the later part of the 16th century. Can you make cannons recruitable at arsenals? Also i rarely see any AI faction have gunpowder units above ashigaru tenpo, do you notice this too?
p.s. thanks for keeping up your dedication to this mod! I've put in over 200hrs in the game (and still haven't beaten it once) and I still feel like its getting bigger, better, and more complete. C.A. made a fine house no doubting that, but you are making it a home
I know I mentioned cannons a while ago, but I've still have yet to use them in the campaign, mainly because I never accept Nanban trade. According to the historical info about cannons in the sengoku period japanese gunsmiths were making their own cannons towards the later part of the 16th century. Can you make cannons recruitable at arsenals? Also i rarely see any AI faction have gunpowder units above ashigaru tenpo, do you notice this too?
p.s. thanks for keeping up your dedication to this mod! I've put in over 200hrs in the game (and still haven't beaten it once) and I still feel like its getting bigger, better, and more complete. C.A. made a fine house no doubting that, but you are making it a home
Never played so far, that the Samurai Teppo becomes available.
Yes, i have just made two different cannon units: One nanban (import, nanban quarter), one japanese (arsenal), both need though the kanabukama building to ensure they are really rare and late; for the next update.
Rycalawre
09-03-2011, 20:39
Hi there.
We started our first campaing with the realism mod (Oda). But we already face a misterious problem: We can't build Post Roads. It says: You cannot build this at this time.
Why is this????:no:
We don't see any further restrictions or arts we need. Please help!!!!
Rycalawre
What version are you playing?
Are you sure the S2R+ pack is the only file you have in the data folder? (possible conflict with other mods?)
We can't build Post Roads. It says: You cannot build this at this time.
Post Roads need arts Todofuken and Equal Fields researched, and of course the according money.
If it doesn't work there in your install, then you must have a bug in your install of whatever sort.
As this mod is aimed to reflect a realistic experience I would like to make some remarks about army composition. The severe restriction in Samurai recruiting really bugged me. It is of course true, that during Sengoku Jidai the Ashigaru became more and more prominent and their role in special weapon squads (namely, archers, arquebus and spearman) was very important. However, looking at different accounts of troop composition and battleorders the Samurai were still the backbone and main fighting force, especially in the vanguard, whilst Ashigaru were considered support troops. As an example, Shimazu Iehisa´s personal guard would consist of : 456 dismounted and 130 mounted samurai, 300 Arquebus, 200 archer and 200 spearman (Ashigaru)+ another 300 or so purely support troops like shield or flag bearers.
So, while armies would have a high percentage of Ashigaru, a huge chunk of them would not be fighting troops, but support. Furthermore Spearman would mainly be used for defensive purposes, protecting the ranks of Ashigaru Archers from enemy cavalry.
Part of the problem is ofcourse the whole system of tactical engagement in Shogun 2, which doesn´t reflect Japanese tactics. Drawing troopes in one big line and engaging with spearashigaru while trying to outflank does not seem very authentic.
I also believe that having different troop sizes already reflects good for the historic troop composition (even if you have 50/50 ashigaru samurai in units, you would have many more ashigaru if you counted heads)
It really bugged me, that I could only recruit yari ashigaru in lategame, which leads to having european like battles, with pikeman engaging opposing pikeman instead of being used for defencive purposes, it is also highly unlikely that in case of a siegeattack those poor yari ashigaru with 4meter and longerg pikes would have to scale the castlewalls because of a lack of samurai to do that (how would you carry a 4,5 meter spear while climbing a steep slope and being shot at, i wonder.....)
My conclusion: For realisms sake I would still allow for decent numbers of Samurai troops, whose variety in appearance is well reflected in different weapon types but at the same time would put stronger emphasis on Ashigaru missile troops, especially late in the period there would be huge ammounts of Arquebus deployed. The use of Yari Ashigaru however is a more ambiguous topic and as it is done in the moment doesn´t reflect samurai warfare but much more the european way of engagement where knights have alredy been rendered obsolete after 1500.
Thats my opinion of the matter, no offence intendet :)
The problem of unit capping is of no easy solution but at any rate I personally think the samurai unit numbers are perfectly fitting.
As far as I understand the mechanics of S2, you can't impose a cap on a building or a province but it must be imposed "beforehand" at the clan stage. So you select a global pool where each clan has a limited number of each unit type and then it's up to the player or AI to expand the domain so that more troops become available because of specialty buildings allowing them.
It does seem pretty unrealistic that you can recruit an ashigaru naginata where the blacksmith is and you can't recruit him at the bordering province... however, if you look closely at the unit stats, you will see the yari ashigaru inaka are so crappy that they lose even to the light cavalry. This means it's up to you to build a balanced army and put each unit where it should be during battle whereas the problem remains for the AI since with all the buildings' restrictions, it can't recruit all the types in one single province but just the type(s) allowed by the buildings present there.
I am more for a system like TROM3 with the AOR recruitment because this allows you to taylor 2 things: 1) Expansion: you can recruit in the new provinces the troops that come from those territories. 2) Population: You HAVE TO 1) because your "native troops" are limited in numbers (big guy has more troops than small guy!).
TROM3 has a major disadvantage in the fact you can recruit ONE local samurai unit (unit caps are very present there too) but I think in these regards, S2r+ should evolve this way.
Still... when the tech tree progresses you'll see more and more ashigaru coming, especially the teppo. Unfortunately, the mod can't do miracles.
BTW Iehisa's personal guard is something, his army... something else. ;)
Rycalawre
09-04-2011, 12:48
It works fine now. I didn't research equal fields at that time and it didn't show me that I had to research it to build the post roads. So I was a little confused.
Anyways, great mod, it's multiple time more fun than the vanilla version.
Thx for your help!
Later accounts of the Tokugawa army show a composition of approximately 1/3 Arquebus&Archers, 1/3 Spear and 1/3 Samurai (mounted and dismounted) + loads of servants.
However in this mod you can ONLY recruit yari ashigaru (to scale castle walls etc.) if at least I could recruit some Archers to reflect a 1/3 ratio of each unit type. I juist looked at my ingame armies and probably my main concerne is the lack of ranged units. I can´t recruit Yumi Ashigaru which i find odd, and considering the year 1575 I should deffinately be able to recruit more Arquebus units (more than 3*80 in about 10 provinces)
Always check the art tree (that shows the requirement!), not the building-info alone, as S2R+ has a lot changes in this area ;)
However in this mod you can ONLY recruit yari ashigaru (to scale castle walls etc.) if at least I could recruit some Archers to reflect a 1/3 ratio of each unit type. I juist looked at my ingame armies and probably my main concerne is the lack of ranged units. I can´t recruit Yumi Ashigaru which i find odd, and considering the year 1575 I should deffinately be able to recruit more Arquebus units (more than 3*80 in about 10 provinces)
Honestly i don't know what you are playing there, if you have a bow dojo you are able to recruit archers, if you have the according dojo, you are able to recruit the according Samurai units ... "in this mod you can ONLY recruit yari ashigaru" ... wtf you are talking about?
I believe your install is somehow wrong, perhaps mixed with other mods.
You are mentioning historical accounts of faction army consistences ... note, that S2R+ is not an accurate history simulation, it's what the opener thread says: A combination of realism and gameplay design.
And for example in regard of historical realism in the environment and design of Tokugawa, there is a focus on Oda making a good play (vs. vanilla design), in consequence on the costs of Tokugawa. If you want a lot of Teppo units you must play Oda.
However, upcoming update will contain a lot alterations again.
However, upcoming update will contain a lot alterations again.
I think he'll be a bit shocked :)
BWHAHAAHAHAH
... on a second thought, Gervasi, you mean the later game around 1575 alone, right? That you can't recruit more Samurai units from on a certain stage?
Well, if my Sengoku history lessons don't fail on me, then many clans (rather all) just had issues to field enough Samurai units in the later period due to the massive losses of them in all these years of the civil war ... this alone was the REASON, that Ashigaru units were massively deployed. This is reflected in S2R+.
Edit:
The other point is, that in reality, a unit of Ashigaru would consist also of some Samurai within the same unit ... unfortunately, we can't create a mix of Ashigaru and Samurai soldiers within one unit. However, the mod offers certain Ashigaru units (ie. GeSakunin/Sakunin), which reflect this to a degree.
Firstly, I'd like to say congratulations on designing a superb mod that really adds lots of flavour and excitement to an already great game. I've been playing around with it for a few months and I really like how it's progressed. The game is a lot more challenging.
Right now I'm playing as Ikko Ikki on Legendary mode with the latest patch - 2.6. I'm around the 56th turn (1560 or so?). All the great clans are going strong, with the exception of Uesegi, who was killed early by Takeda, and the Hojo, who seem to have been conquered by the Oda. Ikko holds 8 provinces and I've managed to build a strong economy by having good trading relations with almost every clan I've met and choosing my fights wisely.
A little chink I noticed: I can't recruit the Yari Warrior Monks (additional unit from AUM-sho mod) - I have a yari dojo but on the recruitment queue it states that I need to build a buddhist temple - which is obviously impossible seeing as I'm Ikko.
Also, are the Mangonels and Fire Rocketeers recruitable as Ikko Ikki? In the custom battle it lists them as unavailable, so I assume it is likewise in the campaign. I have the powder maker in one of my provinces and there's no mangonels available in the recruitment queue. Can you make them recruitable? For two reasons:
1) Seeing as historically, gunpowder weapons were available in Japan during the Sengoku Jidai, why shouldn't these weapons be available to the Ikko? If they can recruit matchlocks, it follows that they can also manufacture simple projectile weapons such as a fire rocket or catapult. I'm not saying they should get cannons, as that requires a considerable amount of engineering, but all sorts of gunpowder weapons including rocket projectiles saw widespread use in Asia as early as the 12th century - it would be easy for the Ikko to capture these weapons during uprisings, or convert artisans who have the skills to build them.
2) Gameplay wise the Ikko have a very limited variety of units, and with the S2R+ additional restrictions especially on archers it kind of boils battlefield strategy down to point-click-charge with massive units of cheap ashigaru, which in the later stages of the game can get kind of boring. Though neither the mangonels or fire rockets are very pivotal in their effectiveness, their animations make the game quite a bit more exciting, especially in siege battles, where they add a completely new dimension of long range artillery > archer fire > then close combat assault.
And what happened to the Naginata Ashi for Ikko? Historically the naginata was one of Ikko's preferred weapons - give it to the peasants too!
I don't mean to be nit picky, I just think these few minor changes would make Ikko more of a worthwhile clan to play in the long run verses other clans who can field a much wider variety of troops. Once again congrats on a magnificent interpretation of the game.:bow:
Honestly i don't know what you are playing there, if you have a bow dojo you are able to recruit archers, if you have the according dojo, you are able to recruit the according Samurai units ... "in this mod you can ONLY recruit yari ashigaru" ... wtf you are talking about?
I believe your install is somehow wrong, perhaps mixed with other mods.
I´m sorry, i did of course exagerate, but I was playing as Chokosabe and was expacting more emphasis on bowunits. I own 14 provinces on very hard settings but in total I can only recruit about 5 yumi ashigaru units + 3 Arquebus and 3 Yumi Samurai. When I said only Yari, I ment that for most of the other units it would say: you can´t recruit because you already have too many or something...
I didn´t really know about a lack of samurai in late Sengoku, while it sounds plausible, i find it a strange decission gameplaywise. However I would like to be able to recruit 1/3 Archery&Arquebus insted of a meagre 12 units all together...
greetz
Firstly, I'd like to say congratulations on designing a superb mod that really adds lots of flavour and excitement to an already great game. I've been playing around with it for a few months and I really like how it's progressed. The game is a lot more challenging.
Right now I'm playing as Ikko Ikki on Legendary mode with the latest patch - 2.6. I'm around the 56th turn (1560 or so?). All the great clans are going strong, with the exception of Uesegi, who was killed early by Takeda, and the Hojo, who seem to have been conquered by the Oda. Ikko holds 8 provinces and I've managed to build a strong economy by having good trading relations with almost every clan I've met and choosing my fights wisely.
A little chink I noticed: I can't recruit the Yari Warrior Monks (additional unit from AUM-sho mod) - I have a yari dojo but on the recruitment queue it states that I need to build a buddhist temple - which is obviously impossible seeing as I'm Ikko.
Also, are the Mangonels and Fire Rocketeers recruitable as Ikko Ikki? In the custom battle it lists them as unavailable, so I assume it is likewise in the campaign. I have the powder maker in one of my provinces and there's no mangonels available in the recruitment queue. Can you make them recruitable? For two reasons:
1) Seeing as historically, gunpowder weapons were available in Japan during the Sengoku Jidai, why shouldn't these weapons be available to the Ikko? If they can recruit matchlocks, it follows that they can also manufacture simple projectile weapons such as a fire rocket or catapult. I'm not saying they should get cannons, as that requires a considerable amount of engineering, but all sorts of gunpowder weapons including rocket projectiles saw widespread use in Asia as early as the 12th century - it would be easy for the Ikko to capture these weapons during uprisings, or convert artisans who have the skills to build them.
2) Gameplay wise the Ikko have a very limited variety of units, and with the S2R+ additional restrictions especially on archers it kind of boils battlefield strategy down to point-click-charge with massive units of cheap ashigaru, which in the later stages of the game can get kind of boring. Though neither the mangonels or fire rockets are very pivotal in their effectiveness, their animations make the game quite a bit more exciting, especially in siege battles, where they add a completely new dimension of long range artillery > archer fire > then close combat assault.
And what happened to the Naginata Ashi for Ikko? Historically the naginata was one of Ikko's preferred weapons - give it to the peasants too!
I don't mean to be nit picky, I just think these few minor changes would make Ikko more of a worthwhile clan to play in the long run verses other clans who can field a much wider variety of troops. Once again congrats on a magnificent interpretation of the game.:bow:
Thanks for your thoughts.
Bold parts: Done :)
Note, Ikko is historically not a clan or unique faction - they are designed in a special way in S2R+, next update will make that still more clear (ie. Ikko AI won't anymore steamroll anywhere). Anyways, yes, they are a special challenge compared to other factions.
I´m sorry, i did of course exagerate, but I was playing as Chokosabe and was expacting more emphasis on bowunits. I own 14 provinces on very hard settings but in total I can only recruit about 5 yumi ashigaru units + 3 Arquebus and 3 Yumi Samurai. When I said only Yari, I ment that for most of the other units it would say: you can´t recruit because you already have too many or something...
I didn´t really know about a lack of samurai in late Sengoku, while it sounds plausible, i find it a strange decission gameplaywise. However I would like to be able to recruit 1/3 Archery&Arquebus insted of a meagre 12 units all together...
greetz
Chosokabe has emphasis on bowunits: Most and best Ashi and Samurai archers in the mod.
And i just recommend the Jidai unit pack (DLC), so you'll get one more excellent Bow Samurai.
Chosokabe has emphasis on bowunits: Most and best Ashi and Samurai archers in the mod.
And i just recommend the Jidai unit pack (DLC), so you'll get one more excellent Bow Samurai.
sorry for posting again, just trying to get my point through. Those unit limits are really restricting. Chokosabe has emphasis on bowunits, so why, even if i have united the whole of Japan i can only recruit 5 Yumi Ashigaru and a grand total of 3 Yumi Samurai (looked it up in the pack file)? This seems pretty ridiculous to me (about 800 standard Archers for all of Japan) I would find it much better if you would have to have a ratio like you could have 1/3 samurai units, 1/3 ranged units and 1/3 Spear to reflect historic conditions and being limited by income, but than i don´t know if this is doable.
To mee it seems like the wrong approach to dictat armycomposition via unit limit.
I have witnessed first hand and agree with your thoughts in line of principle but take the example of shimazu. They have 4 katana sam and 2 ashi sams.
When you get higher in the tech tree, you can build the Nag ashi and one extra lesser kat sam. You also get the yari ashi with another tech but you need to have the blacksmith (which is in Satsuma).
So, as Chosokabe, you must access some resource + tech and conquer the provinces with blacksmith in order to be able to build more unit types. I can't relate to Chosokabe because I played only Shimazu and, occasionally and only for testing purposes, Date but I suppose the concept is the same.
You get more troopers once you have more provinces with different dojos and own the right resources... given the complexity of this recruitment system I recommend you to play for long and conquer different provinces in each game, then report back.
I am sure if something has been missed it will be added. I repeat, this IS a difficult recruitment system and it is both for the player AND for the modder. :)
GShock is talking about an internal wip-version, he relates it above to Shimazu's factionspecific units, that is not valid for other factions.
I might add some explanation to the Units Guide thread, when i've released the update.
sorry for posting again, just trying to get my point through. Those unit limits are really restricting. Chokosabe has emphasis on bowunits, so why, even if i have united the whole of Japan i can only recruit 5 Yumi Ashigaru and a grand total of 3 Yumi Samurai (looked it up in the pack file)? This seems pretty ridiculous to me (about 800 standard Archers for all of Japan) I would find it much better if you would have to have a ratio like you could have 1/3 samurai units, 1/3 ranged units and 1/3 Spear to reflect historic conditions and being limited by income, but than i don´t know if this is doable.
To mee it seems like the wrong approach to dictat armycomposition via unit limit.
In terms of realism-modding approaches, you are just wrong.
Here, check that, for a quick rough idea (DeMolay's post #6): http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=479507
And this for a closer picture: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=441983
If i would not use unit limitation, then the game would go with an ahistorical vanilla/campaign arcade system. There are mods like Darth Mod or Radious Mod mere of that direction, maybe those are more of your taste, they have no unit limitation, afaik, campaign-balancing is just not based on realism backgounds.
Apparently I constantly fail to make my point clear. So I try one more example of what buggs me.
Say Japan is devided in 5 clans, all those clans together could have about 20 Yumi Ashigaru. If I were to conquer all those clans and thus make them one huge area i could all of a sudden only have 5 Yumi Ahigaru (in case of Chokosabe). That doesn´t make sense.
Unfortunately I do not know about the mechanics of modding this game and if what I wish for could be achieved, but with the current system, I cannot compose my army historically (in what I perceive as historically correct mainly based on books of the Osprey Series). I would e.g. like to have 1/3 Archers and Arquebus without taking stupid Wakko pirate Archers, but if you have more than one major army that is near impossible.
I do very much like a hardcore realism approach to games, thats why I chose this mod and gameplay felt quite good, until I hit those severe restrictions.
What I would like to see, isn´t it possible to have kind of fixed recruitment lists for the KI? So they wouldn´t spam one unit or whatever? And wouldn´t it be a better approach to restrict access to units by regions owned, say province a -> 2 Samurai units 2 Archer and 4 Spear?
I´m sorry if I sounded too negativ or something, I just felt that to be a bad design choice that takes away a lot of fun in gameplay, it might be the best aproach to realizing realistic army compositions but i do not find it satisfying.
The one reason why I could not play any other mod is your Bow Samurai Units! Finaly someone who understands that a samurai using a bow would still be a capable melee fighter. I do love this design decission of yours!!!!
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