sigh for me the game feels dead

[Magyar Khan]

sigh for me the game feels dead

all these bugs, my avatar resetted just back to 10 and then after the latest patch new bugs, no communication or whatssover
ladder still broken, hidden features....

i feel empty fighting this all

is it just me or do u also feel the strain?

[AMP]

The game was seriously lacking since day one of the release and really we paid to play a game in beta stage. This is what gaming has become in today's world of greedy people, it's human nature. It won't change because they have no real competition, so they can milk away as they please.

[FasT]

Most games r the same now..Never polished :(since a year ago I never jump into new games now.I always wait for patches/fixes. Many ppl like myself have limited time to play.. Eg. Work/family/friends.
When I got a couple of hours free I wanna have fun enjoy,learn and improve..
But ladder is bugged broken. And before the last patch the alt f4 kept me from playin..
First 5 games I played all alt f4 on Me:(.. So I wasted my time for nothin..
I hope the next patch fixes the ladder and other issues etc..
This game could b awesome in so many ways , just hope they polish it now.
Then I'm sure more ppl will play And return..

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

If you wasn't so damn picky on who you play Magyar maybe it be more fun for you perhaps? :laugh:


The game is still fun for me, but it doesn't seem like there is as many people.

[FasT]

If you wasn't so damn picky on who you play Magyar maybe it be more fun for you perhaps? :laugh:


The game is still fun for me, but it doesn't seem like there is as many people.
Many ppl left game because of the alt f4 as I stated they fix it too late:( and now still broken ladder.. so many left and play other games with better ladder unbugged system . U can't blame them , CA fault .. They need to act fast or more will leave and the competition will die:(

[UglyJun]

well it seems every tw game has been affected by basically being half finished and before they spend cash fixing it they start on the new tw title and import all the bugs from stw the first game that never got finished lol

[Nigel]

i feel empty fighting this all

is it just me or do u also feel the strain?

I know this feeling. I get it when I want to make something good, but problems keep appearing left and right and it all seems to be too much and going above my strenght.


But to be honest, I dont have it for S2TW at the moment.
That is because I have settled for myself that the game is not perfect and perhaps only 75% of what it should be.
But it is still good enough for me to enjoy it.

I have to say, that I am not (or not any more) looking for competitive play with a fair and meaningful ladder, or perfectly balanced starting position. I just want to have fun when I play, and this is there - usually playing with people I know.

True, the in-game ladder and MM are pretty broken and Clan Competion is skewed by zerg clans.
But the battles themselves are fun if you play honourably and without exploits. As a result there is a lot of activity with community made competions and I belive that we can ourselves generate quite a lot of good games that way. We will need to define some good rules to avoid exploits or OP units (or just stick to playing with ppl we know to keep the Code of Honour). But I think we can get there and eventually use those parts of S2TW which are working fine for our own games.

:juggle:

This does take time and work, of course. The Tosa Cup started off nicely. Now we have learned that the rules need to be improved but we also know what can happen and what additonal rules are needed. I hope the first Cup can be brought to an honourable conclusion. The next Cup can run much more smoothly.
There is a lot of good discussion ongoing about a Org hosted ladder and that looks promising (and not to forget the CWC).

And for a "map conquest" type game for clans, I understand these have been done before and I am currently trying to get such a Community Clan Competition (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?135239-Community-Clan-Competition) off the ground myself. If you would like to check it out, Magyar, I would be happy for your advice or help from your experience.



I realize that not everyone is like me, just looking for fun. Some of you want to have some seriously competitive games. And on that side the situation is rather frustrating. I do understand that, and therefor, please don't shoot me for beeing so "annoyingly positive". All I want to say is, if you do feel empty, dont let it get you down but take a break from trying to improve the game and see what we can already do with what we have.

[Cu'Roi]

+1.

[Graphic]

sigh for me the game feels dead

all these bugs, my avatar resetted just back to 10 and then after the latest patch new bugs, no communication or whatssover
ladder still broken, hidden features....

i feel empty fighting this all

is it just me or do u also feel the strain?

After toughing it out through the lower ranks -- fighting endless 10-star opponents with armies of vet 9 everything and 5 uber retainers (hello nonexistent matchmaking) -- and making it to 14k battles, I started to have fun for a while.

Slowly but surely the BS started piling up to where I gave up after less than a week of kind of enjoying it.

[AMP]

why do 90% of the people online say rank 9 vets? do that many people really don't know just because a unit is rank 9 doesn't mean all skills are spent on it?

[Graphic]

why do 90% of the people online say rank 9 vets? do that many people really don't know just because a unit is rank 9 doesn't mean all skills are spent on it?

When you're only level 4 without even all the units unlocked, and practically no veterans of your own to speak of, that minor detail is hardly relevant. Just like at lvl 8 when the other guy has vet 9 matchlock monks and GG, and you don't. Missing skill point or no, you still lose.

The problem with Shogun 2's MP is the whole avatar conquest set-up. Persistent vets and rank advantages in an RTS was a really, really stupid idea. I don't know what they were thinking; maybe trying to have some kind of TW version of CoD unlocks. The stupidity is compounded by absolutely non-existent matchmaking.

For the next game, just retainers and avatar skill upgrades/visual customization is enough. Add a matchmaking system more sophisticated than "first player the game finds", and then we'll be doing good.

[Magyar Khan]

yup in basic the vets system is nice but CA is just not teh party being able to do this good enough.....

i like the avatar and in a way its even balanced.... a small miracle.... and the stupidity that pre patch vets are better then after patch vets... lol what a mess


and also that some points spend do whats intented and others dont.... im so uncertain about my own army.... or the retainers... people suggesting to put them again in their slots cuz some may not work after a while....

[RTKAbu]

In the begin i had hopes many bugs would be resolved fast, but now i given up. The avatar type battles are awesome, the general tree is good, the retainers got potential, but the veterans break the balance, they are so bugged, and some abilitys are so strong, while others are so useless, those abiltys themselves made the game a 'ranged' game where everything else just is a side-thing. I think CA was something to optimistic, they implemented to much additional things, while now i look back on it, the avatar general tree and the retainers are enough already, the valour and sword and shield upgrades of the past would have been good also in combination with the general tree and a good amount of retainers.

It could have been good, but not with this CA who the last years makes a habit of releasing beta games.

Of cource i dont even mention the fail of the clan competition, the ladder fail, the cheat options which can make youre opponents drop, and the whole mm setup problems.

[AMP]

When you're only level 4 without even all the units unlocked, and practically no veterans of your own to speak of, that minor detail is hardly relevant. Just like at lvl 8 when the other guy has vet 9 matchlock monks and GG, and you don't. Missing skill point or no, you still lose.

The problem with Shogun 2's MP is the whole avatar conquest set-up. Persistent vets and rank advantages in an RTS was a really, really stupid idea. I don't know what they were thinking; maybe trying to have some kind of TW version of CoD unlocks. The stupidity is compounded by absolutely non-existent matchmaking.

For the next game, just retainers and avatar skill upgrades/visual customization is enough. Add a matchmaking system more sophisticated than "first player the game finds", and then we'll be doing good.

Most vets are missing more than just a skill point when you're talking about playing with v9 monks and v9 ggs and those that do spend all points are really pissing away some koku when playing @ 14k...

When my buddy wolf fast started out playing this about a month ago his first 5 games all of which were against higher ranks ALL d/c'ed on him, but of course he's xp'ed with TW and rank doesn't = skill.

STW2 is more about build than skill, but that's the future for ya and some people I talked to like it this way sadly... I prefer it be more on how you use the units on the battlefield and not a dice roll.

I like the Avatar idea, but it's just out of balance in areas with things like... a melee gen with no counters to worry about when playing against low ranks and vets getting free fatigue reduction that new players don't have the luxary of just yet

Matchlocks are abit op but can be countered by low ranks same with great guards, just most of course don't know what to do. Any game that I start out playing I never minded getting spanked alot because I would learn from it. At least the online harassment isn't like other RTS games I played, so you don't have to worry about people rubbing it in when they spank you, but things like that never got to me anyway.

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

They're still fixing,I would wait for the pathces.How can you say that people are too greedy now?

. This is what gaming has become in today's world of greedy people, it's human nature

[UglyJun]

They're still fixing,I would wait for the pathces.How can you say that people are too greedy now?

. This is what gaming has become in today's world of greedy people, it's human nature

Greed has nothing to do with human nature its learned, encouraged but is not natural ok
and no they have never adreesed the basic problems since stw we still waiting for patches in that game!!

[Cu'Roi]

what abu said is almost exactly my sentiments. but i don't think that they put too much new stuff in the game at all, in the 90s updating graphics, re-skinning, tweaking the GUI, and selling it over for 50 dollars as a "standalone expansion (which is an oxymoronic term invented by marketing to increase the price by 20 dollars)" would not fly (except for maybe a sports game). in fact one of the main reasons this game feel any different than gunpowder is because the setting has changed so radically, once they start releasing medieval 3 and rtw 2 in 2012 and 2013 respectively it will become obvious how these new games are nothing but mods in terms of new content.

instead the problem with this game and every TW since i started playing online is chronically short development times. I'm fairly certain CA actually has some of the best programmers in the entire world (no exaggeration) but a 1 year development cycle is proving - not that it needed proving - is proving that that even the most modest additions and improvements are impossible to implement, no matter what your budget or talent level. the time is just not there. and that is assuming extremely good management, when in fact indications are rather opposite.

lets face it, avatar system and ladder and clan comp were the 3 main selling points of this game. and, despite the fact that 3 months after release none of those actually work as intended, these changes have a large impact on the way the game plays but from a developmental perspective none of this is ground breaking, not even close. a system of unlocks and RPG like progression has already been done by dozens of other companies in dozens of other games. A ladder is even more basic. to implement these things is simply a matter of following in the foot steps of other games and developers that have already led the way. but they can't even do that within the allotted time.

the series is stagnant for the foreseeable future and there are only a couple hopes:

1) a billionaire buys the franchise and personally funds development out of pocket (see: ted turner with gods and generals)
2) blizzard buys the series
3) bungie software (the company that made one of the first if not the first true RTT in 1996) decides to go back to basics, thumb their noses at the MS overlords who want a new halo clone over and over, and make a RTT that exposes TW for the amateur effort it really is and i can leave this garbage game for a real software developer who's release date is, and i quote, "when it's done."

in other words i'm saying the series is ****** and it won't get better.

[||GUNSLINGER||]

I was so excited when in an interview a few months before launch CA said that every game they focus massively on one aspect every time they create a game and this time (finally) it was multiplayer. But instead of making a really solid, bug-free, balanced, competitive multiplayer experience they tried to do way to much for the time they spent on it - if they wanted to do all of the campaign MP and Avatar and MM that they did they should have spent another 6 months or more getting it right, BETA's, community involvement etc. If they weren't prepared to put in that time then they should have just made a more basic but solid and balanced MP experience and made it simple but fun. I was shocked how difficult it was to just jump in and play when I first tried it and I'm sure that put so many people off. Then the pathetic state of bugs/crashes/drops etc if you actually stick it out put off all but the most persistent lovers of the game who can battle through it. In my opinion they ruined multiplayer before they even started.

I really thought STW2 was going to get me back into TW properly (I played religiously/exclusively from STW until end of VI era) but I played STW2 for 2 weeks and whenever I go online now and try MM and face absurdly superior armies, or drops if I do start doing well, or crashes whenever the hell it feels like it I just think what's the point this is hardly much fun and go back to other games. I still play Company of Heroes and over FIVE years down the line they just released the best patch yet for balancing which has been in a 6 stage BETA for 4 months getting it right!! Relic weren't perfect and messed up a few times down the line but they know what keeps people playing multiplayer and all these years later there are still thousands of people playing at any one time and it really is a fantastic illustration on how solid support from the developer keeps an RTS going at a high and competitive level many years down the line.

Creative Assembly once again just don't care about multiplayer - when they actually say they will focus on it they think mass of features and gimmicks is enough when they need to understand that a few basic things done very well is what an MP experience needs! And if they do want to add extra features then make damn sure they are properly developed!!

I'll stop ranting now, sad days.

[AggonyKaptenFloede]

Avatar mode is dead, classic is just getting better. I'm pretty sure everyone who is even slightly interested in competitive tw will be in classic mode very soon.

[Cu'Roi]

yes kap, you're right. avatar is broken, and i imagine that for any players who really want to test their skill vs each other they will go classic. it's even possible that avatar mode will become a gimmicky thing that is considered for noobs.

they really do have to fix classic battle visibility in the battle list.

there is a way (albeit impractical) to get a fair avatar competition, but you actually have to restrict so many things that you have... a classic battle lol

it did not have to be this way, but it is.

from my own personal opinion as a gamer i friggin love avatar mode because the game is always stale to me anyway. just to keep the game fresh me and boats used to take 8 artillery pieces in ETW or all cav armies. In shogun we find ourselves taking ninja spams and play 2 v 3s in the battle list. avatar mode was the freshest thing in TW to me in a long time. you can actually spec everything out in pursuit of a certain type of army. in theory this is the coolest concept ever and involves a lot of strategy. but what we have today is a long way from that.

for me TW is like christmas but i always find i only get coal no matter what santa promises.

[Magyar Khan]

classic mode also requires different banners.... why cant u take your own banner design like it is now u may end up fightin g an eemy with the same banner colour who invented that lol sigh cry sigh

[FasT]

I wait to c wot the next patch will bring! Simple as that, as I stated before won't waste my limited time on a bugged beta gAme.. Those days r behind me now..;)
They not gunna patch this game forever! B lucky if u get 5 patches max :(
So let's c but most know CA to well so won't hold my breathe:p
Hoowwwlll

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

Well....I don't know why you people complain anyway.Go and play some other and game if you're not pleased.I am sick to death of hearing you people moan about ''the game sucks'' or ''CA is corrupt,they never care about us''.

Well let me tell you this.Did they have the technology to do it in 1999?No.Thanks to the tax cuts in the UK,schools,hopsitials and other companies have to cut jobs,and the government is paying a massive debt.Once Britain is out of the reseccion thing,and they get rid of the tax cuts,then can CA buy new equipment to patch the games you want them to.For now...everything is limited here.So to patch the games does take time.If yo

Strange how you can call them corrupt.I played M2TW yesterday and I had enormous amounts of fun,no matter the glitches,bugs,blah,blah.

:idea2:Eureka!You see ,they announced this game on October 2010.And now its May...no April, thats either 5 or 6 months.What they should have done is start from October 2010,and release it........November 2011.The game would have been fully fixed.Apart from some minor glitches,it would have been yes,fixed.

But nothing is perfect.Greed is temptation and its a part of Human nature.

Oh,and for those of you who say the ''the game is dead''.Its not,Its alive,I play loads of times!Bloody amazing game.There are people who make the game alive really.

Sure there are problems in the games,I'm playing MP,and yet it crashes during battle,why?Due to the computer.You know .. although the game was released,many of you started to complain,I don't think it was partly the game's fault,it was you're computer.When a total war game releases do you ever update your drivers?

[Magyar Khan]

hahhaha this is a funny post thank u for it...made me laugh

[AggonyReborn]

3 matchlocks stacked behind eachother literally 3 units back to back. and they can fire. and kill a general that is behind its own units, then get sniped through friendlys and enemy units 6 deep in the ranks!

WTF just happened!! did that really........ well I must throw the message away before it explodes.........

.. somtimes doesnt make sense!

..... what did I miss?

[AggonyDuck]

They've learnt to bend the bullets 'Wanted' style. :D

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

hahhaha this is a funny post thank u for it...made me laugh

Really?Well thank you for not understanding my post.I don't think you could have figured it out.You can't even understand what I say,thank you Mp.

[FasT]

@ Takeda....
I complain cause the gAme is beta and bugged in so many ways..
I payed good money for this gAme yet it's not polished..mp ladder is screwed and many other issues..
So IMO I have the rite to complain, and as I stated already I'm not playing this game until it's patched more..
But in the mean time I can complain, the only way to get some fixes with CA is the throw it in their faces..
The community have now become the beta testers after months of release and that's lol.. CA have listened but r they gunna fix the rest of the bugs/issues or they gunna move onto their next project???
That's wot concerns me,because with a little more work and fixes this game could b awesome
.
This game got so much potential , would b a shame if they don't tweak it:(
@Magy, yup makes me lol too, but makes me cry also. I fell in love with the original stw, so mAny fun times. Just mAkes me sad ATM with the current state of stw2:(

[Nigel]

Well, to be fair to Takeda, you all will have to admit that if you come to this site as a new member and just want to enjoy playing in the community with the nice new game you have bought (and the game is pretty nice if you do not have the comparison of STW1 or MTW/VI), then the mood on this forum can sometimes be pretty depressing....

Really, Takeda, you have to know the history of this site and then you can better understand why everyone seems to be so agressive towards CA. It is not that we hate them. It is just that we want them to get their act together and become as good again as they once already were.

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

@ Takeda....
I complain cause the gAme is beta and bugged in so many ways..
I payed good money for this gAme yet it's not polished..mp ladder is screwed and many other issues..
So IMO I have the rite to complain, and as I stated already I'm not playing this game until it's patched more..
But in the mean time I can complain, the only way to get some fixes with CA is the throw it in their faces..
The community have now become the beta testers after months of release and that's lol.. CA have listened but r they gunna fix the rest of the bugs/issues or they gunna move onto their next project???
That's wot concerns me,because with a little more work and fixes this game could b awesome
.
This game got so much potential , would b a shame if they don't tweak it:(
@Magy, yup makes me lol too, but makes me cry also. I fell in love with the original stw, so mAny fun times. Just mAkes me sad ATM with the current state of stw2:(


Well, to be fair to Takeda, you all will have to admit that if you come to this site as a new member and just want to enjoy playing in the community with the nice new game you have bought (and the game is pretty nice if you do not have the comparison of STW1 or MTW/VI), then the mood on this forum can sometimes be pretty depressing....

Really, Takeda, you have to know the history of this site and then you can better understand why everyone seems to be so agressive towards CA. It is not that we hate them. It is just that we want them to get their act together and become as good again as they once already were.

Right,I'll provideyou with a full answer when I have the time,here's a taste:

Its not a game that is in Beta-Relaese anymore.
mp ladder is screwed and many other issues..
Well what da ya expect?Not all games are prefect on release.

So IMO I have the rite to complain, and as I stated already I'm not playing this game until it's patched more..
But in the mean time I can complain, the only way to get some fixes with CA is the throw it in their faces..

rite>?How do you have the right to complain when you can't even write ''right''.

The community have now become the beta testers after months of release and that's lol.. CA have listened but r they gunna fix the rest of the bugs/issues or they gunna move onto their next project???

You know,in M2TW ,in the creidts they say ''Special thanks to the org''.There are many people would disagree with you on this.I am a community member,but I am no beta tester.The game is qid pro and quite brilliant.

they gunna move onto their next project???
That's wot concerns me,because with a little more work and fixes this game could b awesome

So what?They have teams working on fixing Shogun 2 and ones that are making new ones!If you were head of CA,what would you do?Fix the gaems and don't any relase any new ones?

Really, Takeda, you have to know the history of this site and then you can better understand why everyone seems to be so agressive towards CA. It is not that we hate them. It is just that we want them to get their act together and become as good again as they once already were.

Really Nigel.It would be good for once if these people would stop insulting CA staff.Stop calling them corrupt,stop calling them as ''unfair,''They don't listen to us''.There are members that hate CA,just because there's no patches.One of them said to me that they would be better of without total war.They would like a ''new company'' to repalce CA.This has been said by Org.Members.They have always delivered what ever you ungrateful people asked.become as good again as they once already were. They have been working for 11 years.I don't think it is that wise to tell them that,they've always been the best,thats why they have no major rival.


It is not that we hate them,You hate them.

Thanks to the tax cuts in the UK,schools,hopsitials and other companies have to cut jobs,and the government is paying a massive debt.Once Britain is out of the reseccion thing,and they get rid of the tax cuts,then can CA buy new equipment to patch the games you want them to.For now...everything is limited here.So to patch the games does take time.
You 2 have completley igroned my answer.Its the TAX cUTS that is doing this!

I'll edit it this and try to explain my point,I've played shogun 1 and I loved it.

[FasT]

Omg! Really lol.. Game industry is makin millions game sales r up and rising..
Well if ur happy with the game as it stands, fine enjoy!
But all the vets and old school know know it's got many bugs and most r simple to patch! Others more complex .
Simple fact is game bugged. A good example is the ladder.. 1 day ur in top 10 next day ur 3k + that's lol..
Check the ladder now do u c the vets and old skool playing on it? They got their tokens and don't need to play against cheats and bugged system.
I rest my case on this matter now! CA need to fix it .. Simple !!!!!!

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

Omg! Really lol.. Game industry is makin millions game sales r up and rising..
Well if ur happy with the game as it stands, fine enjoy!
But all the vets and old school know know it's got many bugs and most r simple to patch! Others more complex .
Simple fact is game bugged. A good example is the ladder.. 1 day ur in top 10 next day ur 3k + that's lol..
Check the ladder now do u c the vets and old skool playing on it? They got their tokens and don't need to play against cheats and bugged system.
I rest my case on this matter now! CA need to fix it .. Simple !!!!!!


So what if the game is bugged?M2TW had plenty of bugs and I don't see you complaing on that.


But all the vets and old school know know it's got many bugs and most r simple to patch! Others more complex .
What?You're saying to me that CA CAN'T FIX A SIMPLE PATCH?Man!They can fix your bloody patches!(Throws pie at your face in frustration)


Of course CA are fixing the game.Let them do it and you'll get it.ETW was crap compared to this brilliant game.

[FasT]

M2tw didn't play it.. Etw didn't play it.. Wonder why? Lol.
I'm not sayin CA can't fix it , and never posted that they can't .
So tell me this r they fixing ladder ? And wot bugs they fixing in next patch.?
It's so easy to tell us wot they intend on fixing but they don't .. They released a game full of bugs and server problems.
As I sAid let's hope they fix them. Then all is well:)
They need to keep the community more informed!

[OUT4BLOOD]

Stopped playing around 3/4 weeks ago, won't come back until it's pure classic mode and a lot of things are fixed

[UglyJun]

getting there too masked slowly but surely:(

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

FPS time my friends!!!!! :yes: :yes:

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

M2tw didn't play it.. Etw didn't play it.. Wonder why? Lol.
I'm not sayin CA can't fix it , and never posted that they can't .
So tell me this r they fixing ladder ? And wot bugs they fixing in next patch.?
It's so easy to tell us wot they intend on fixing but they don't .. They released a game full of bugs and server problems.
As I sAid let's hope they fix them. Then all is well:)
They need to keep the community more informed!

They would like too.But yo and others would bombard them every time they want to spea,wen they anncounce,they write really big.M2TW was great

I'm not sayin CA can't fix it , and never posted that they can't

Ya did.

''But all the vets and old school know know it's got many bugs and most r simple to patch! Others more complex ''

[Cu'Roi]

Well, to be fair to Takeda, you all will have to admit that if you come to this site as a new member and just want to enjoy playing in the community with the nice new game you have bought (and the game is pretty nice if you do not have the comparison of STW1 or MTW/VI), then the mood on this forum can sometimes be pretty depressing....

Really, Takeda, you have to know the history of this site and then you can better understand why everyone seems to be so agressive towards CA. It is not that we hate them. It is just that we want them to get their act together and become as good again as they once already were.

you think people are aggressive at CA? haha i haven't even gotten warmed up yet...

@ takeda: the problem takeda, is that when you and others defend a game that is really indefensible, the effect is to make it harder to lobby CA for changes. When CA checks this board, and they do, it's best if the problems are made clear and all opinions fall in line.

I'm not arguing for censorship, just trying to explain why people are saying what they are.

it is actually a form of "tough love."

of course most of the problems CA are well aware of, but to motivate them to fix the problems you must shout and never stop.

@all - don't be too quick to kill avatar. avatar now is bull crap.. avatar in concept is totally awesome, but they need to make sure the rules are fair for all, that people don't randomly lose their clan tokens and that all skills work on release because people waste tokens if they don't do that. Prior to the patch avatar was actually fair, people didn't like it still for a lot of reasons, but it was fair except for the random drops. the fact that people with more hours get more advantages is actually not inherently unfair, although it would be imbalanced, especially for a competition (unless u corrected for those imbalances ;)). to a lesser extent but still important they also need to make sure all upgrades work and balance test more to get the real costs for each skill because some skills are worth a lot more gold than their price and other skills are worth a lot less.

[AggonyKaptenFloede]

Maybe change CWB to classic?

[TinCow]

To those that haven't already, you should all join The Sengoku Jidai League (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?135915-The-Sengoku-Jidai-League-Rules-and-Information). It's specifically designed to fix a lot of the issues you guys are having with the current system. :eyebrows:

[RTKAbu]

Maybe change CWB to classic?

Why, although i have to agree that at this time its maybe better to ban veterans altogether, the general tree alone and the retainers are giving a new dimension to the game. Leadership for better overall morale, or a extra free GG unit general. The MM avatar system sucks, and the bugs threw away the veteran concept at all, but still, i prefer a game without vets or a limited amount of them then no extra tactical options at all, like is the case in classic.

In the avatar system i got something personal in the game where i can adjust my playstyle to it, classic is just a bad rip-off of stw1, infact, if you prefer classic and balance so much, i would advice you to play stw1 on servers as stw1 is better balanced then classic stw2. If you want to keep playing in the past, why even buy STW2? Yes, the avatar experiment of CA failed, and we know why, but some aspects are really good, although i doubt the 'classic hardcore players' will ever agree as they still believe 'balanced and fairness' should be as high as possible. I pity the 'balanced' argument, some people will always be better and fairness or balance will never be achieved anyway, some woman in rl will have more male hormones in tennis so they will perform better on a female tennis championships, some people have better eyes, some people can piss further because they got more muscles. In youre 'balanced fairness' imagined world you want clones fighting clones. If you want a real good total balanced game, when i was young i always played pong, really classic, totally fair, have fun with the oldscool grafix and classic gameplay, although, o wait, i still mostly won against my younger brother, so it couldnt be fair or balanced is it?

[Cu'Roi]

Maybe change CWB to classic?

there is no chance of that happening heh, the very structure of CWB sort of prevents that, especially at this stage. the 3 vet limit was actually a compromise between about 3-4 different view points. we found something everyone could live with.

prior to the big patch things were a lot better than they are now it's true, but they couldn't be anticipated. like this thing about people getting kicked from their clans is a phenomenon of the past 2 weeks really. the important thing to remember is simply if you wanna compare two players or teams, play classic. that said, i do truly believe that CWB is so close to fair it hardly matters because of the way we have carefully set up the rules. at any rate we were very clear at sign up about the most important rules, so people could judge for themselves whether they wanted to sign up or not.

of course the rules are also default rules so u can ask your opponent if they want to deviate from those rules. ofc only do this with people you know and trust, and best to document it in the match thread.

don't worry though, if the foyer lives, classic battles live! ...except for when swoosh is on hahah ;)~

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

you think people are aggressive at CA? haha i haven't even gotten warmed up yet...

@ takeda: the problem takeda, is that when you and others defend a game that is really indefensible, the effect is to make it harder to lobby CA for changes. When CA checks this board, and they do, it's best if the problems are made clear and all opinions fall in line.

I'm not arguing for censorship, just trying to explain why people are saying what they are.

it is actually a form of "tough love."

of course most of the problems CA are well aware of, but to motivate them to fix the problems you must shout and never stop.

@all - don't be too quick to kill avatar. avatar now is bull crap.. avatar in concept is totally awesome, but they need to make sure the rules are fair for all, that people don't randomly lose their clan tokens and that all skills work on release because people waste tokens if they don't do that. Prior to the patch avatar was actually fair, people didn't like it still for a lot of reasons, but it was fair except for the random drops. the fact that people with more hours get more advantages is actually not inherently unfair, although it would be imbalanced, especially for a competition (unless u corrected for those imbalances ;)). to a lesser extent but still important they also need to make sure all upgrades work and balance test more to get the real costs for each skill because some skills are worth a lot more gold than their price and other skills are worth a lot less.

I laugh at you,You have igroned what my points are.There is no such thing as 'toughlove',its what your parents would do to you.

is that when you and others defend a game that is really indefensible....

It is defensible.You're making a irrvealant point.


When CA checks this board, and they do, it's best if the problems are made clear and all opinions fall in line.

Then first of all:Tell the problems.They'll fix it,don't write in a bad way which is what many org members do here.Thats why you never get your requests told.



of course most of the problems CA are well aware of, but to motivate them to fix the problems you must shout and never stop.

Look at you,sounding like some wise person!Crap,total CRAP!Talk in a nice way and they will fix it.

[Andres]

I know I'm completely new to the MP part of TW gaming, but in the few MP games I played so far, I had... fun :2thumbsup:

Maybe it's a blessing to be a newbie who doesn't even notice the bugs, maybe you more experienced people just expect too much; I don't know.

All I know is that I play games for fun, and fun is what I'm having with this MP game.

A huge part of the fun factor to me is that this is so much different from playing FPS's online. My only experience with playing against humans over the internet has been with FPS games (and I suck at those too :laugh4:), where most people either ignore you or insult you.

So far, I only encountered nice and friendly people while playing TW MP. A friendly chat before the game, wishing each other good luck. Playing and congratulating each other with their play. Of course, being the smooth talker I am, it's hard not to like me when you first meet me ~;p and I like talking to people. To me, the friendly chat is an important part of the fun.

The game itself has been a very interesting experience so far. Playing against a human opponent is so much harder and intense.

I know I still have a lot to learn and RL probably won't allow me to play enough to really get the hang of it and become good at MP; but, since I'm not somebody who makes a big deal out of losing, that's ok.

This coming from a newbie who only played 7 games so far (and lost 6 of them :laugh4:).

Maybe if you approach the game from a different angle, namely as a fun diversion after a hard day of work, you could enjoy it again?

:bow:

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

I know I'm completely new to the MP part of TW gaming, but in the few MP games I played so far, I had... fun :2thumbsup:

Maybe it's a blessing to be a newbie who doesn't even notice the bugs, maybe you more experienced people just expect too much; I don't know.

All I know is that I play games for fun, and fun is what I'm having with this MP game.

A huge part of the fun factor to me is that this is so much different from playing FPS's online. My only experience with playing against humans over the internet has been with FPS games (and I suck at those too :laugh4:), where most people either ignore you or insult you.

So far, I only encountered nice and friendly people while playing TW MP. A friendly chat before the game, wishing each other good luck. Playing and congratulating each other with their play. Of course, being the smooth talker I am, it's hard not to like me when you first meet me ~;p and I like talking to people. To me, the friendly chat is an important part of the fun.

The game itself has been a very interesting experience so far. Playing against a human opponent is so much harder and intense.

I know I still have a lot to learn and RL probably won't allow me to play enough to really get the hang of it and become good at MP; but, since I'm not somebody who makes a big deal out of losing, that's ok.

This coming from a newbie who only played 7 games so far (and lost 6 of them :laugh4:).

Maybe if you approach the game from a different angle, namely as a fun diversion after a hard day of work, you could enjoy it again?

:bow:

Now that ladies and Gentlemen is a real answer!

[AggonyDuck]

Why, although i have to agree that at this time its maybe better to ban veterans altogether, the general tree alone and the retainers are giving a new dimension to the game. Leadership for better overall morale, or a extra free GG unit general. The MM avatar system sucks, and the bugs threw away the veteran concept at all, but still, i prefer a game without vets or a limited amount of them then no extra tactical options at all, like is the case in classic.

In the avatar system i got something personal in the game where i can adjust my playstyle to it, classic is just a bad rip-off of stw1, infact, if you prefer classic and balance so much, i would advice you to play stw1 on servers as stw1 is better balanced then classic stw2. If you want to keep playing in the past, why even buy STW2? Yes, the avatar experiment of CA failed, and we know why, but some aspects are really good, although i doubt the 'classic hardcore players' will ever agree as they still believe 'balanced and fairness' should be as high as possible. I pity the 'balanced' argument, some people will always be better and fairness or balance will never be achieved anyway, some woman in rl will have more male hormones in tennis so they will perform better on a female tennis championships, some people have better eyes, some people can piss further because they got more muscles. In youre 'balanced fairness' imagined world you want clones fighting clones. If you want a real good total balanced game, when i was young i always played pong, really classic, totally fair, have fun with the oldscool grafix and classic gameplay, although, o wait, i still mostly won against my younger brother, so it couldnt be fair or balanced is it?

My issue with avatar is that it has added complexity to something that was already complex enough. The game never needed things such as retainers and customisable veterans, it was great as it was. If CA had actually put all of their efforts into classic Total War, they would probably had delivered the best Total War MP experience that we have seen. Now all this extra effort was spent doing something ambitious that A) doesn't really work all that well B) doesn't really make the game any more enjoyable. This is the great shame of Shogun 2 MP.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

My issue with avatar is that it has added complexity to something that was already complex enough. The game never needed things such as retainers and customisable veterans, it was great as it was. If CA had actually put all of their efforts into classic Total War, they would probably had delivered the best Total War MP experience that we have seen. Now all this extra effort was spent doing something ambitious that A) doesn't really work all that well B) doesn't really make the game any more enjoyable. This is the great shame of Shogun 2 MP.

Which is why people are being pushed away to other MP games.

[AggonyKaptenFloede]

I have played many games of both types. I used to play lots of avatar mode and it took a while for me to get used to classic mode, but now i've just quit playing avatar mode, cause imo classic is the far superior total war feel. Once you go classic you never go back. =)

[Sp00n]

I'm still enjoying it, I have 2 accounts and have different avatar gens on each so I tend to switch between bow and melee gens to alter the experience. All TW games have had issues, but I still think its the best online experience since Shogun/MTW.

[Nigel]

...., I have 2 accounts ......

Does this mean you have bought the game twice ?
Just curious.

[Swoosh So]

Maybe change CWB to classic?

pfft
Ive had nothing but bad experiences with classic - lag and drops. Avatar is fine imo with some rules. Especially with no vets rules it surely trumps all over the classic mode. The upgrades in classic are outdated and stupid.

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

Then we can agree that MP is not fixed,but its being fixed,why are there no harsh critics of ETW?ETW was absoulte crap.And the most unrealiitc game

[AggonyKaptenFloede]

pfft
Ive had nothing but bad experiences with classic - lag and drops. Avatar is fine imo with some rules. Especially with no vets rules it surely trumps all over the classic mode. The upgrades in classic are outdated and stupid.

Avatar noob ;)

Retainers are worse than vets imo.

[Magyar Khan]

Classic mode is better yes but has flaws too and koc noticed some weird bugs himself

Duck, avatar mode could have been a succes and nice addition if it wasnt that bugged as it is now....

And for people who miss me at .com im banned till septembre :) who can exceed that?

[RTKAbu]

My issue with avatar is that it has added complexity to something that was already complex enough. The game never needed things such as retainers and customisable veterans, it was great as it was. If CA had actually put all of their efforts into classic Total War, they would probably had delivered the best Total War MP experience that we have seen. Now all this extra effort was spent doing something ambitious that A) doesn't really work all that well B) doesn't really make the game any more enjoyable. This is the great shame of Shogun 2 MP.

So why didnt you stick to STW1, as that was, as you say, good as it was. I have to say that while you luckily dont come up with the rediculous 'balance' argument some of the vets got, still its naive. You want a STW1 with better grafix? People want innovation, people expect innovation, people demand innovation. You cant come up with a vanilla classic game anymore. There are so many more factors involved in war, that you can always expand the scope of this series, and in a way they tried to do that. If you found TW already complex enough, go back to STW1, and i advice you and all the other vets who refuse more complexity to abondon the TW series as you will proably stuggle even more with the upcoming releases.

The way this series went to is pretty logical. They hoped the lack of unit diversity STW1 had, would been solved by adding personalised and experienced units. In theory this is just creating units yourself instead of them making hundreds of units like they tried in ETW and NTW. The same is done with the general, in ETW and NTW we already had generals as Napoleon playable, only, now they simply gave us the option to create a personal general ourselves. In a way i can even understand the retainers, armys had specialtys, some had better swords (Caesar made some remarkable quotes about weapan quality effecting battles), some had bit better bowmen etc., so i can even understand the retainer princeple. The fact is that at this moment, the veterans are unbalanced and bugged, the retainers only a gimmick and based on random drops (but still not that bad as people claim, as the most effective arent working anyway), and the only good pretty well balanced aspect is the general tree. Does that mean its enough reasen to shoot the avatar mode?

Refusing the avatar mode simply is refusing the future of the TW series, refusing more complexity, refusing innovation, you and the vets keep staying in the past. You dont understand they gave every effort to the classic total war mode....., which resulted in the avatar mode, more tactical options, more personalised features, more focus on multiplayer, every gamer would love and embrace that, except the the vets of the TW community. The avatar mode is tourney playable with some rules, but hell, the classic needs also rules, so whats the difference? Now the classic mode won the tourney stuglle as all the tourneys are hosted by mainly vets who never gave avatar a real chance (we both know everyone shotted it on day 1 on the private forums of CWC....), but this is only a temporalily stuggle, this game with all its bugs, atracted more people then the vets of the old days, and they embrace the avatar system, its a matter of time untill the classic mode will have the same faith as NTW3, played by a hardcore group, i even got doubt that classic will be a feature in the next total war game, and well, i would advice them to focus everything in the avatar mode which in theory, got the future of the TW franchise in it.

As it now stands, i have more fun in training for CWB, then i ever had for CWC, with the general trees, and only a limited amound of vets (although i pref. no or maybe even 1 vet max) on the field, the possibilitys are almost endless. CWB isnt only a tactical aspect on the field like classic battles are (which some people find fun aswell), but CWB also takes the pre-phase battle serious, which generals to go for, which of the limited vets to use, which upgrades to use on them, and then of course to finish the battle on the field.

You prefer a child book, i prefer a literary novel, although i understand that novel i prefer got grammer and spelling mistakes as its the first press, but i make grammer and spelling mistakes to when i havent let my text check by MSWords (like now :P)

[AggonyKaptenFloede]

You prefer a child book, i prefer a literary novel, although i understand that novel i prefer got grammer and spelling mistakes as its the first press, but i make grammer and spelling mistakes to when i havent let my text check by MSWords (like now :P)
You got it wrong Abu. It's avatar mode that is for children. It's just not made for competitive play. Sure many ppl think its fun to build your avatar and come up with some special type army with retainers and upgrades and stuff but imo it's kind of silly. Almost everyone dislikes the cheese armies that come from avatar mode except the players that rely on them.

[AggonyDuck]

That was a rather poor analogy. Comparing to the older Total War titles to children's literature does a huge disservice to their complexity. There was a wealth of tactical options in those games and I still think of Total War as a fast-paced realtime chess where each piece is able to be moved at the same time. The surface of the game might have appeared fairly simple, but behind it lies a wealth of complexity. Now what CA has done is to add complexity to the surface, but in effect have only added artificial complexity that serves both to limit the natural complexity of the game and the freedom of choice of the player.

Also with regard to your claims that Avatar has added tactical options, I'd beg to disagree. Most of the new features have only added to the importance of army selection and have in fact ended up limiting players more than anything by making the choices we make more constant.

1. Regarding veterans. Most of the veteran upgrades are largely worthless. The really useful ones are those affecting charge/attack/defense and accuracy/reload/extra ammunition/increased range. Add to this of course Rapid Volley, which can just be ridiculous at times. The previous upgrade system actually allowed very similar upgrades, but with the difference that the player wasn't limited by his veteran pool. Now it is easier to predict what type of builds players will bring as the number of veterans is limited.

2. Regarding generals. Essentially we have been given the choice between three different general types. How exactly is this an improvement on the situation we had in earlier games, where we were free to choose any unit as our general? The biggest difference here is that they have merely decided to make the strength of the general unit stronger, making the use of the general more decisive. This has changed the game, but it hasn't made the game that much more complex. And again this is a case where freedom of choice has been artificially limited.

3. Regarding customisation. This is one of the few excellent additions to the multiplayer game. It works really well and doesn't detract from the game experience at all. It is just a shame that CA did not add this to the Classic mode.

4. Regarding retainers. I think retainers are a fairly unnecessary addition to the game. Yes, they add more choices but they do not contribute to making the game more enjoyable. Mainly they only accentuate the importance of the army selection process and at worst can even break the unit balance (as prime example the combination of Rennyo's with the Way of the Ikko-Ikki).

5. Regarding ladders. The basic idea of reintroducing ladders was a great. However attaching the ladders to avatar mode was a poor idea. Due to the progression system and the fact that those who play more are rewarded with stronger units and retainers, we have a case where there is hardly ever a level playing field between contenders. I'd prefer a situation where all my opponents have exactly the same options available to them as I do. The game loses a lot of its thrill when you know that you have a clear advantage over your opponent. Another side-effect of the progression based system is that it makes it increasingly harder for newer players to pick up the game. Total War MP already had a very steep learning curve and now new players have to play in a situation where they are also at a disadvantage in terms of unit selection, veterans and general skills. Only the most persistent of new players will actually stick around.

And a nasty side-effect of all these new factors is that they make the game progressively harder to balance. There are too many factors affecting how units work and often small changes can result in unforeseen consequences. Why do you think the game, especially the avatar mode, still has considerable balance issues?

I will hold on to my view that if CA had actually stuck to Classic mode and instead concentrated on adding customisation, match-making features and ladders to it, we would now have on our hands the best and most polished Total War MP experience ever. Instead we are here with a game with two flawed modes of which neither can be seen as being perfect for tournaments.

Also, who said anything about struggling to adapt?

[Cu'Roi]

Classic mode is better yes but has flaws too and koc noticed some weird bugs himself

Duck, avatar mode could have been a succes and nice addition if it wasnt that bugged as it is now....

And for people who miss me at .com im banned till septembre :) who can exceed that?

the rate at which they ban paying customers on those boards is disturbing. actually though to edit this on i did look at your post history and the last 15 posts you have made are all a variation of "this game is broken" lol. :)~

you're def. right it's just not surprising they banned you either.

[AMP]

The sad part is that really what they were trying to do isn't that complicated compared to some other RTS games out there. In fact you could call it pretty simple in today's world of gaming. They just don't have either the skills, man power, or money to make it happen it seems... which is it? O.o

[Magyar Khan]

i agree with u all........ in a way its so close to perfect and the way its done its so far away from it....

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I find all these arguments funny :laugh:.

[GfmHellmann]

@OP What do you want to achieve with all these "oh no the game is dead/broken" threads? When someone says the game is not dead/broken, will you keep playing it? I don`t get it...

[FasT]

Any news on next patch? That's wot matters more!...

[Jochi Khan]

With the .com site being down, (Sega base been hacked), it's anybodies guess when or if another patch will be released.

[FasT]

With the .com site being down, (Sega base been hacked), it's anybodies guess when or if another patch will be released.

ok thanks for letting me know Jochi! :)