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Nightbringer

12-12-2011, 21:22

https://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6346/lodal.png

Here is a brief summary of the overall structure of the game.

Each players funds will be tracked separately. They will receive income equal to whatever settlement they own, and pay for whatever forces they control. Each player would declare their expenses, and the sum income of their provinces, and keep a tab of their funds each time they submit their save. Players who go into debt may risk having soldiers in their pay rebel, depending on the amount and length of the dept.

Any characters without a province may be adopted by another player, who will pay all of their expenses. If no player adopts them, they will have no income, and will have to earn a title if they wish to support troops. They may still be put in charge of troops if another player allows it.

Currently, every character but one control's a province, and the King controls two. This leftover character would count as "adopted" by the King (although the King player may cancel this if he wishes), and could be given control of either of the two provinces the King controls if the King wishes it so.

As for the setting, the game is starting in 1222, the year Hungarian nobles historically forced the King to sign the Golden Bull. This was the result of a short uprising, and effectively gave the Hungarian nobility much greater freedom from the King. I intend to create several rebel armies in Hungarian lands to represent the leftovers of this revolt, and the player characters represent appeased, although not necessarily happy, nobles who have re-aligned with the King now that he has signed this bull.

Also significant, Hungary has just recently liberated Constantinople from the Cuman Khanate, part of their long war with the Pagan nation. The city is currently under de-facto ownership of the King, as the general who captured the city died in the siege without leaving a clear heir, but it is a prize that is certainly worth argument for. I hope that this, the remnants of the civil war, and the war with the Cumans should provide plenty to keep people busy right from the start.

There are currently 3 characters available for new players to join

Phonicsmonkey (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/private.php?do=newpm&u=23862) -King Bokeny
Groef of Belgrade, Groef of Varad, Groef of Taregoviste
Titles: King, Lord High Marshall
Agents: Cardinal Vid a Bogatradvany nembol, Princesses Adelhaid the Affectionate, Judit a Kacsics Nembol, Adelaide a Buzad nembol, and Gertrud a Buzad nembol,
Cardinal Levente az Oguz nembol, Bishop Kaplony a Kan nembol, Merchant Katapan a Szentemagucs nembol, Merchant Bojta a Huntpaznan nembol

Zim (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/private.php?do=newpm&u=22485) - Demeter az Aba nembol
Groef of Kassa, Groef of Halych
Titles: Master of the Treasury, Heir Apparent, Victor in the Tournament
Agents: Bishop Bank a Turje nembol

SeruGiran (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?95430-SeruGiran)- Andras a Zah nembol
Count of Sofia
Titles: none
Agents: none

Mithridate (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/private.php?do=newpm&u=94564) - Bokony a Huntpaznan nembol
Count of Brasov, Count of Baia
Titles: Palatine, holder of the Privy Seal
Agents: Bishop Lambert az Opor nembol

The-King (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?25845-The-King) - Kerecsea Geregye nembol
Count of Zagreb
Titles: Master of Horse
Agents: none

Vata a Kacsics nembol
Vassal of the King
Titles: none
Agents: none

Petur az Akuz nembol
Vassal of the King
Titles: none
Agents: none

Kuppany a Kan nembol
Vassal of the King
Titles: none
Agents: none

Bokeny a Hanhold nembol
Vassal of Bokony a Huntpaznan nembol
Titles: none
Agents: none

Suggested Format for End of Turn Reports
You may use any format you desire, but here is one possible way of doing it. (brackets denote variable)

Starting money = [Funds at start of turn]

Income
[list of incomes from provinces]
[list of incomes from merchants]
[list of incomes from diplomatic deals]
[income from purse (2000 for King, 500 for Junior King, 300 for nobles)]

Total Income = [x]

Expenses
[list of units recruited (with costs)]
[list of buildings constructed (with costs)]
[list of agents recruited (with costs)]
[total upkeep for all existing units]
[total upkeep for all existing agents]
[list of all diplomatic payments]

Total Expenses = [y]

Ending Funds = [total income (x)] - [total expenses(y)]

Disbanded Units
[List of all disbanded units]

Gifted Items
[List of all units, provinces, or agents given to another player (along with player given to)]

Enemies
The Cuman Khanate
The Fatimid Caliphate
The Golden Horde

Allies
The Republic of Genoa
The Kingdom of Denmark
The Grand Duchy of Kiev

Game Rules

1. Mod and Game Settings
1.1 Stainless Steel 6.4
1.1a Early Era Campaign
1.1b Savage Ai
1.2 Very Hard Battles
1.3 Very Hard Campaign
1.4 Manage all Settlements
1.5 Defensive Battles Enabled
1.6 Battle Timer On
1.7 Hotseat Game

2. General Rules
2.1 Transported units may not exceed 2 times the number of ships in the fleet
2.2 “Merchant forts” may not be used
2.3 Agents may be destroyed by surrounding them with armies (represents extensive military operation to root out and kill the agent. Be warned, the GM shall ensure that other factions react to this as a hostile action
2.4 Do not exploit the naval movement bug

3. The Game Master
3.1 Nightbringer is the Game Master (GM)
3.2 If Nightbringer can no longer be the GM, or if >50% of the players vote for him to step down, a new GM may be chosen by player vote
3.3 The GM will not take control of a character
3.4 The GM has the right to (and likely will) exert any amount of control deemed appropriate over non-player factions in the game

4. The Save
4.1 Only the GM may end the turn, unless permission is specifically given to a player.
4.2 The save shall be named in the following format: game name_turn #_# of players who have played turn
4.3 Players shall have 48 hours to player their turn after the save has been uploaded
4.4 The GM shall have 24 hours after this to return the save to the players
4.5 A player shall have 24 hours to play any defensive battles
4.6 After playing a defensive battle, the player must save the game immediately and return the save to the GM
4.6a Due to the lack of turn scrolls, a faction’s turn may begin after a defensive battle, if this is the case, the player should not take any action or look at this faction’s position. Doing so will only decrease that player’s enjoyment of the game.

Player Rules
5. Role-play
5.1 Players are encouraged, but not required, to write battle reports and other in context (IC) stories
5.2 Players should post only IC posts in IC threads
5.3 Players should post only out of context (OOC) posts in OOC threads
5.4 Lies and other “immoral actions” performed IC should not be held against the player, and should be regarded as purely the action of their character

6. Battles
6.1 Players should play out all battles since auto resolve may be used to exploit horse archer armies, or prevent general death
6.2 Players should refrain from using Ai exploits as much as possible, this will not be enforced, but using exploits will only serve to break player immersion in the game

7. Finances
7.1 The faction money total should be ignored, if more money is required to meet individual finances, the GM shall add it
7.2 No money is owned by the faction
7.3 Every character has a personal supply of money
7.4 A character’s money supply is determined as such
7.4a At the beginning of the game, each character starts with 1000 florins.
7.4b Any new character will start with 1000 florins
7.4c During the turn, the cost of any unit, ship, agent, or building recruited/constructed by a character will be deducted from that characters funds
7.4d At the end of every turn, the total upkeep of all units, ships, and agents a character owns and the cost of any deals/agreements will be deducted from that character’s funds
7.4e At the end of every turn, the total income from all provinces a character owns, the income from any merchants that character owns, and their income from any deals/agreements will be added to that character’s funds
7.4f The King also adds a King’s purse of 2000 to their income
7.4g The Junior King also adds a Junior King's purse of 500 to their income
7.4h Nobles also add a noble's purse of 300 to their income
7.4i If a character’s funds would drop into the negative they instead stay at zero
7.7 If a player fails to deliver a report, the GM will do it for them, but repeated offence may be grounds for expulsion from the game
7.8 Each player must declare where their money is kept, this may be either a province or with their character, this location may be changed at the end of any turn (unless it is within a besieged province)
7.9 If the province where a character keeps their money belongs to another player, that player may seize the entire sum whenever desired
7.10 If the province where a character keeps their money is captured by an enemy faction, 75% of the money is lots, while the other 25% is allocated to a new location by that character’s player
7.11 If a character who is keeping their money with them is defeated in battle, 50% of their money is lost.
7.12 Any financial deals with other factions must be paid by characters, but the expenses can be divided as desired between characters.
7.13 If a character refuses to pay their part of a deal with another faction, the GM will ensure that the faction responds appropriately to the lack of payment.
7.14 Any character may make private deals with other factions through the GM
7.15 Characters may transfer money between each-other as desired according to the following rules
7.15a The player giving money deducts the transferred money from their funds in their end of turn financial report
7.16b The player who is receiving money adds that to their income in their end of turn financial report
7.16c This means that the receiving player is not able to see this money till their next turn
7.16 Each player is responsible for delivering an accurate report of their finances to the GM every turn, either in private or in public when they post the save
7.17 Units that are garrisoned which would normally have free upkeep (as defined by the game) also do for the purposes of this game.

8. Property
8.1 Nothing is owned by the faction
8.2 Every province, unit, ship, and agent is owned by a single character
8.2a Anything owned by a character may only be controlled by that character’s player, unless that player gives express permission to another
8.3 Provinces, units, ships, and agents will be allocated to characters at the start of the game by the GM
8.4 Units, agents, ships, and buildings may only be recruited/built in a province by the owner of that province, from that character’s personal funds
8.5 Units, agents, and ships recruited in a province are owned by that province’s owner
8.5a Any recruited, adopted, or born generals become the property their adoptee, recruiter, or oldest male relative, or of the King if this is not possible to determine, until they are controlled by a player
8.6 The owner of a province may allow another character to recruit/build in his province, or to take ownership of units built in that province
8.7 A character may only recruit/build as much as he has funds to pay for
8.8 A character may only recruit a number of agents equal to the number his provinces support (i.e., a character owning 1 province with 1 church may only recruit a single priest)
8.9 Each player is responsible for keeping track of which units, agents, ships, and provinces belong to him/her, any disputes will be resolved by GM decree
8.10 The owner of any unit, ship, or agent, is responsible for paying the upkeep of that unit/ship/agent
8.11 If the owner is unable to pay the upkeep for units during a turn, the GM has the right to take any action with these units between turns, and may remove or give ownership of the unit/ship/agent as wished
8.12 The owner of any unit, ship, agent, or province may transfer that property to another player in their end of turn financial report, as per the rules for money transfer
8.13 Any new settlements conquered become property of the character whose troops (or agent, if bribe) conquered this settlement
8.14 Any bribed troops become the property of that diplomat’s owner
8.15 Princesses are automatically the property (in game rules only, not in an ethical sense) of their oldest male relative, or of the King if this is not possible to determine.
8.16 Property can be disbanded or destroyed at the will of its owner, but must be noted in the end of tun report.
8.16a When a player disbands units during a civil war, the GM will declare that units were disbanded at the end of that turn, and players may bid to gain the service of these units (the GM may announce that they are a single item, or they may be divided into several smaller items to be bid on). The GM will set a secret minimum price, and the highest bidder over this price will have the units added to their army. Bids must be received 24 hours after the end of the turn to be counted, meaning that bids must be entered before the next turn begins.

In context rules
These rules are all to be regarded as in context, and may be broken by players at will, with only in context consequences as penalty

Currently existing Titles

The Palatine (in game, Lord High Chancellor)
The principal manager of the King's properties (no game effect), and the judge of legal matters among the nobility.
They are chosen by the King. Aside from being a high honor, this position allows the character to be the final decider in all IC legal matters. However, they would only have the right to impose penalties on the nobility with the explicit permission of the King.

Lord High Marshall
The chief commander of Hungary's armies. They are chosen by the King. This man is responsible for co-ordination of all Hungarian military efforts, and, if supported by more than half the nobility, may legalize the capture of any territory.

Master of the Horse
This man oversees the Kingdoms horse breeding and the appointment of cavalry officers. They are chosen by the Lord High Marshall. This title gives the character a slight chance of having any cavalry unit owned by an enemy turn over to him in the event of a civil war. This reflects the intimate relationships the Master of the Horse has with cavalry officers. (% chance of occurring for each unit = ((commands *s of character - command *s of unit owner) x 5). Other than this, this title has no in game effect.

Master of the Treasury (no ancillary representation)
This man is responsible for ensuring that the economy of Hungary runs smoothly, and does not leave certain critical areas underfunded. They are chosen by the King. This title makes the character responsible for overseeing financial deals between characters and with other factions, and for proposing such dealings when deemed necessary for the good of the Realm. This title allows the character to propose and accept financial deals with other factions if supported by more than half the nobility.

Lord Privy Seal
This man bears the private seal of the King, and is chosen by the King. This title is a great honor the King may bestow upon a character, and the title only exists when the King wishes it to. However, their is no direct benefit of having this title.

Laws of the Realm

I. The Noblemen are declared to be exempt from the payment of taxes, nor will money be collected from their treasures. Neither will their residences be occupied, nor their villages, and these may only be visited by those who have been invited. No taxes will be levied on the Church.

II. If any nobleman dies without a male heir, his daughter will receive a quarter of his funds (disappear from game); the remainder of his property shall pass into the hands of his closest living relative; if this is not possible, then the King shall inherit them.

III. If the King wishes to send his armies outside of the Kingdom the Noblemen will not be under obligation to go with him, if the monarch doesn't pay them. However if an invading army enters in the Kingdom, all of them must serve to expel it.

IV. The Hungarian Palatine may judge everyone in the Kingdom without any differentiation; but he cannot try any nobleman without the King's approval.

V. Hungarian properties cannot be given to foreigners.

VI. No title (offices, not dukedoms or the like) or public charge can be inherited.

VII. No character may hold more than a single title.

VIII. No settlement may be taken without the permission of the King.

IX. No war may be started without the permission of the King.

X. No financial deals with other factions may be made without the permission of the King.

XI No man may lay claim to a settlement unless it is given to him by the King.

Q and A

Q. Can I disband units freely?

A. Yes (as long as they are your property), but please inform me of the units you disband in your end of turn report. Also, if there is a civil war going on, I think I would implement a system were other players could attempt to bribe these units. (I would estimate an amount based o the unit when you disband them, and interested players could send bids to me. If they meet the amount, the highest bidder would have the unit added to their army.)

Q. If we attack a neutral faction, do you leave the AI to do it's decision making or do you take command of them to do what makes sense (like hitting an undefended city of ours etc.)?

A. That depends on the situation, but I will say that I am not going to inform you guys which factions I am controlling. I will likely exert some influence on numerous factions, and complete control in few cases, but you should regard all enemy factions as truly dangerous and capable of strategic thinking beyond the ability of the game ai.
Also, I think I should note that when I take control of ai factions it will be in order to make them behave more rationally and realistically, not to make them perfect strategists. My goal with controlling other factions is not to kill off the player faction, but to present it with a more reasonable challenge which behaves in a manner consistent with IC role-play between this faction and others.

Q. Are units garrisoned in castles/cities upkeep costs free?

A. Yes, units that are garrisoned which would normally have free upkeep (as defined by the game) also do for the purposes of this game.

Q. If someone needs my facilities to recruit something and I ok it, can they just be queued and then that person pays for it? Or do I have to spend my own money and then get paid when I transfer the troops?

A. It can be queued and that person pays for it.

Q. Is income available to be used on the current term, ie. if I start a turn with 1000, and have an income of 2000, can I spend 3000 this turn?

A. Yes, income is available for spending on the current turn.

Nightbringer

01-10-2012, 09:06

and here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9829)is the save for the first turn.
As we are just starting, and so players can get their bearings, this first turn will have a maximum time limit of 72 hours from this post.

and please remember, do not end the turn, I will do that after all players have taken their moves.

phonicsmonkey

01-11-2012, 12:26

EDIT: and here it is back

Got the subforum up and running now so feel free to start a new OOC game thread (use the new prefix LotD) and I'll move it (and the IC thread) in there and also move posts from this thread (rules, character starting positions, saves) into the new one

Myth

01-11-2012, 22:52

House Stark

01-12-2012, 02:35

1. can we hold off on moving our characters/armies until we hold the first meeting of the nobility? It is very important for us to decide our attitude towards Venice and the ERE.

Seconded.

phonicsmonkey

01-12-2012, 03:09

1. can we hold off on moving our characters/armies until we hold the first meeting of the nobility? It is very important for us to decide our attitude towards Venice and the ERE.

This seems like an IC question that we should discuss in the IC thread. Why not post there as the King and make a request?

Nightbringer

01-12-2012, 08:02

Taking le save.

Questions:

1. can we hold off on moving our characters/armies until we hold the first meeting of the nobility? It is very important for us to decide our attitude towards Venice and the ERE.

2. Can I disband units freely?

3. If we attack a neutral faction, do you leave the AI to do it's decision making or do you take command of them to do what makes sense (like hitting an undefended city of ours etc.)?

Q 1. This does indeed seem like an IC issue to me.

Q 2. Yes (as long as they are your property), but please inform me of the units you disband in your end of turn report. Also, if there is a civil war going on, I think I would implement a system were other players could attempt to bribe these units. (I would estimate an amount based o the unit when you disband them, and interested players could send bids to me. If they meet the amount, the highest bidder would have the unit added to their army.)

Q 3. That depends on the situation, but I will say that I am not going to inform you guys which factions I am controlling. I will likely exert some influence on numerous factions, and complete control in few cases, but you should regard all enemy factions as truly dangerous and capable of strategic thinking beyond the ability of the game ai.
Also, I think I should note that when I take control of ai factions it will be in order to make them behave more rationally and realistically, not to make them perfect strategists. My goal with controlling other factions is not to kill off the player faction, but to present it with a more reasonable challenge which behaves in a manner consistent with IC role-play between this faction and others.

Myth

01-12-2012, 10:42

Nightbringer

01-12-2012, 11:10

No, I meant, can NB not enforce the 72 hour limit on the save until we get our first session? We can't afford to have armies just sitting around but the first turn is what will decide our actions for the next 10-15 or so turns.

I can extend it another day or so for the first turn, especially since it seems to be taking a little time for people to get started.

I also sent out a couple of pms to other people who might be interested that I just thought of, so we might see another player or two, which gives more reason to let this first turn go long while people get oriented.

Myth

01-12-2012, 12:40

Ignoramus and Cecil both have stated they love such games, do they know we started?

Nightbringer

01-12-2012, 19:35

I'll shoot them pms as well.

Myth

01-12-2012, 23:49

For this image I decided to do something I reserved for pictures of girls I like. Namely, I made the SS screenshot look as if it was painted with oils. I rather like how it turned out:

https://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6346/lodal.png

Nightbringer

01-13-2012, 04:35

I like the image a lot, it just looks so cheerful. Thanks Myth!
I do have a couple of critiques though.
The units in the image itself just feel a little too heavily armored for this point in the game to me. Do you have a screenshot with cloth barding for the general?

Also, I would like to see what it would look like with the game name moved to the top, as their is currently a lot of blue up their, while much of the pretty green grass down below is covered.

Also, I got a question about garrison unit upkeep.

Units that are garrisoned which would normally have free upkeep (as defined by the game) also do for the purposes of this game.

Myth

01-13-2012, 09:50

These are Hungarian Royal Banderium knights. I think they appear later, probably around the full plate or gothic plate events (which I never actually got to in a SS game, who plays for 300 turns anyway..) They look much better than the hungarian nobles however (the nobles are horse archers dressed as a cross between merchants and 18th century pilgrims). I especially like the bright red Hungarian flag in the middle.

The text was original in the upper left hand side but it looks horrible when plopped on the blue sky and I can't find a colour for it that doesn't look horrible there.

Nightbringer

01-13-2012, 09:55

What about feudal knights? As I recall the Hungarian one's of those look pretty cool.
As to the text location, it isn't a big deal so I will trust you that it didn't work with the sky.

Myth

01-13-2012, 10:09

The problem is that in order for me to recreate the image with a different unit I have to

1. Get the same angle
2. Get the same terrain
3. Get the same nice hill, patches of grass and daisies
4. Get the same sunshine
5. Make the SS, retouch it with pthotoshop
6. Then retouch it with Corel Painter to make it look painted (this is the tricky part as you can never make the same thing twice)

Overall that's a lot of IFs and probably the end result won't look as nice. I chose these knights because their shiny metallic armour gives off a nice contrast when so much detail is lost in the oil canvas approximation. The Hungarian Nobles or other knights have much darker textures and when retouched like this they don't look very nice. I have other SSs, most of which include a river, but I like the composition and colours of this one too much, otherwise I'd have included the river for sure. Overall, this is an artistic image, it's not here to bring accurate information for the game, but rather a feeling. BTW Gerneral's Bodyguard units are just as armoured, they just have barding on their horses.

Nightbringer

01-13-2012, 10:12

Myth

01-13-2012, 10:17

No worries, I'm all for constructive criticism and opinions. I ask for them actually. Sometimes I'm not happy with the result at all (like the TSI image), sometimes I just make what has been requested. Overall that's how its done however, so don't hold back :) Do we need signatures for the game? I suppose we have to wait for people to actually like their characters first.

The forum resized it automatically, don't worry. The CoG and WotK2 images are all oversized, it will be fixed when you reload the page. It's better to have a high-res version for those with bigger monitors.

FYI Monkey, the Junior King is not the Kig's son. I think he is his brother if I remember the family tree correctly. I'm away from my PC now so I can't double check.

Nightbringer

01-13-2012, 10:46

phonicsmonkey

01-13-2012, 12:12

Do we need signatures for the game? I suppose we have to wait for people to actually like their characters first.

If we're lucky, when deguerra gets back he might make us coats of arms like he did for some of our previous RPGs

Monkey, the Junior King is not the Kig's son. I think he is his brother if I remember the family tree correctly. I'm away from my PC now so I can't double check.

Oops. Still, his father could have sent him to Zagreb when he was King, right?

phonicsmonkey

01-13-2012, 12:32

oh lords, the family tree.
It is a godawful mess, but yes, technically The Junior King Bokeny is Pozsony's (the current King) cousin. However, the previous king, who died in 1208, was the Bokeny's father (Saul).

To make things even worse, the king before that who died in 1206 was Pozsony's father (Mate).
And the king before that was the cousin of the great grandfather of both Pozsony and Bokeny, who also died in 1206 (Sandor).

I suppose we could say that there was a civil war after the death of Sandor between Saul and Mate. Saul killed Mate and took the throne, but Pozsony reclaimed it in 1208, killing Saul.

So...
Make of that mess whatever you like. You can use the little theoretical history I stated, or you two can agree on something else that is a bit less convoluted.

I like that but it might be even better to say that after the death of Sandor there was a long period of Civil war between Saul and Mate during which each claimed and held the throne at different times and which ultimately claimed both their lives. The two sons, rather than continue the war, parleyed and with the other nobles and came to this settlement where Poszony is King and Bokeny his Junior.

The other players in the game can decide for themselves whose side they were on in the Civil war and where their alliances lie now.

What do you think?

Nightbringer

01-13-2012, 12:47

I like that but it might be even better to say that after the death of Sandor there was a long period of Civil war between Saul and Mate during which each claimed and held the throne at different times and which ultimately claimed both their lives. The two sons, rather than continue the war, parleyed and with the other nobles and came to this settlement where Poszony is King and Bokeny his Junior.

The other players in the game can decide for themselves whose side they were on in the Civil war and where their alliances lie now.

What do you think?

I like that a lot, and would love to go with that as long as myth is okay with it.

Myth

01-13-2012, 13:09

phonicsmonkey

01-13-2012, 14:01

1. I can make coats of arms. See Cecl's signature for example.

2. Civil war between brothers and cousins who were Kings or close to it doesn't make sense. Civil war between the lesser nobility (Barons) and the King and his Dukes - that makes sense (a-la Baron's Rebellion). The Golden Bull is the result of such a thing.

1. Great! But you don't have to do everything Myth

2. I'm sure we could think of a good reason why Saul and Mate would fight for the throne. perhaps they had different mothers like Mary of Scots and Elizabeth, and Sandor's divorce from his first wife was not recognized or was a bone of contention with certain sections of the nobility (her family). During his lifetime his influence was enough to keep these rebellious feelings in check but when the secondborn son (of the current wife) tried to ascend to the throne the discontented nobles saw their chance to seize power and pressed the claim of the firstborn. voila! Civil war. Of course the real motivations were political as they always are...

If you don't like that I'm sure I could come up with something else

Zim

01-13-2012, 17:13

Civil wars between close family members are pretty common in history. If not in Hungary, then at least elsewhere. I'm sure we could come up with a reason (like the one suggested above).

Nightbringer

01-13-2012, 19:48

Here is the family tree

https://img806.imageshack.us/img806/1419/familytreek.png (https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/806/familytreek.png/)

As you can see, both Mate and Saul were quite distant relations of the previous king, but they were still the closest male descendant. (Saul had no siblings or other cousins).

Mate and Saul can be assumed to have been about he same age, so when Sandor died there certainly would have been some ambiguity about which one would have been king. Because of this, I think it is reasonable that there could have been a civil war between them, which was only resolved by their son's after both had died.

The most recent Baron's revolt which led to the Golden Bull (a historical event), was mainly caused by the nobility not wanting to be bound to going to war on the king's orders. It wasn't really much of a civil war, as battle's weren't fought (as far as I know), more just the Baron's refusing to go to war and the king being forced to capitulate.
So it is pretty unrelated to succession, but it isn't unreasonable that several civil conflicts about different problems could arise in a fairly small amount of time.

Cecil XIX

01-13-2012, 22:01

Why, I'd certainly like to join this game! I'll take Mikan a Bogatradvany nembol, if you please.

phonicsmonkey

01-13-2012, 22:04

This makes it much easier because the King dying with no heirs is almost always followed by a struggle for succession, whether that is outright war or just political turmoil.

We can just say that, backed by different sections of the nobility, Mate and Saul each pressed a claim to the throne and fought a civil war over it.

When Pozsony and Bokeny came to their settlement it was not approved by all of the nobility and shortly afterwards when Pozsony tried to muster the nobles for a war (against the Cumans? ERE perhaps?), they rose up in rebellion citing a number of grievances and that instability was only ended by the recent Golden Bull.

What do you think?

Nightbringer

01-13-2012, 22:07

Myth

01-14-2012, 15:46

Nice! I like that background. Mikan has the srongest army assembled at the moment, so he is a good choice. He is also young, has the King's favor, and is a decent general.

Nightbringer

01-15-2012, 10:44

myth, do you still have the save? If so, please post it so others may play their turn. Otherwise, people should go off of phonics version of it here
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=3394&d=1326282285

Myth

01-15-2012, 11:31

I have it. I thought we were waiting for everyone to have the first session and decide who we go to war with. I don't want to single handedly pick a fight with the ERE for example.

Nightbringer

01-15-2012, 12:00

phonicsmonkey

01-15-2012, 12:44

Alright, how about we wait for everyone to at least make their presence known in the courtroom before we continue. As to picking fights, that might be a long discussion and I would like to let people start taking turns reasonably soon. So the sooner people start discussing the better! :)

Myth, if you want people to come to court you'd better make some kind of summons...after all there's no actual voting session happening is there?

In fact I don't see anything in the rules about sessions and voting at all...

Myth

01-15-2012, 14:44

The summons is mentioned in the IC post I had made. It's also natural I think for all players to assemble and discuss what sort of actions we take for Hungary. It's the first turn after all.

Nightbringer

01-16-2012, 01:21

Myth, if you want people to come to court you'd better make some kind of summons...after all there's no actual voting session happening is there?

In fact I don't see anything in the rules about sessions and voting at all...

Indeed, monarchies aren't democracies. Myth is free to start whatever wars he wants, but he had better to convince some nobles to help if he wants that.

I could make some sort of rules for sessions, but I'm not sure what the purpose would be without voting. Maybe we could simply make a rule that the king may call a session at which attendance is mandatory, which will pause the turn for a period of 5 days or so.
Other players could perhaps do this as well but I wouldn't want the game to stop because everyone keeps calling sessions.

phonicsmonkey

01-16-2012, 06:51

Indeed, monarchies aren't democracies. Myth is free to start whatever wars he wants, but he had better to convince some nobles to help if he wants that.

I could make some sort of rules for sessions, but I'm not sure what the purpose would be without voting. Maybe we could simply make a rule that the king may call a session at which attendance is mandatory, which will pause the turn for a period of 5 days or so.
Other players could perhaps do this as well but I wouldn't want the game to stop because everyone keeps calling sessions.

No, I think it's fine that we don't have voting etc. I was just making the not-so-subtle point that the hungarian nobles might not jump to heel unless the king made a direct IC summons and that under the rules we'd be fine to just go about our business without necessarily discussing it with him first.

Nightbringer

01-16-2012, 07:35

No, I think it's fine that we don't have voting etc. I was just making the not-so-subtle point that the hungarian nobles might not jump to heel unless the king made a direct IC summons and that under the rules we'd be fine to just go about our business without necessarily discussing it with him first.

Okay, that had been my intention but I wanted to offer it if it was important to players.
With that said, I would greatly appreciate it if everyone made their presence known in the courtroom. However, I will call an end to the turn 72 hours from now. After that I am going to stick to a strict (or as close to strict as I can) 48 hour turn time-limit.

Nightbringer

01-16-2012, 07:53

Hey everyone, I realized I forgot to divvy out agents at the start of the game. I will do so now.

They are allocated as follows.

Myth - King Pozsony
All 4 princesses (Adelhaid the Affectionate, Judit a Kacsics Nembol, Adelaide a Buzad nembol, and Gertrud a Buzad nembol)
Cardinal Levente az Oguz nembol
Merchant Bojta a Huntpaznan nembol

Phonicsmonkey - Junior King Bokeny
Cardinal Vid a Bogatradvany nembol

Zim- Demeter az Aba nembol
Bishop Bank a Turje nembol

House Stark - Vata a Kacsics nembol
Bishop Kaplony a Kan nembol
Merchant Katapan a Szentemagucs nembol

Bokony a Huntpaznan nembol
Bishop Lambert az Opor nembol

Princesses went to King automatically, Cardinals were divided between two kings, bishops and merchants were randomly distributed.

Phonics, is it okay if I just add in the 80 upkeep (for 1 priest) to your tally.

phonicsmonkey

01-16-2012, 08:41

do I have to have him?

Nightbringer

01-16-2012, 09:05

do I have to have him?
Yep, you have Cardinal Vid a Bogatradvany nembol

phonicsmonkey

01-16-2012, 09:12

Yep, you have Cardinal Vid a Bogatradvany nembol

Then I guess I have to pay his upkeep...stupid expensive clergy

Nightbringer

01-16-2012, 09:17

Then I guess I have to pay his upkeep...stupid expensive clergy

He has influence in the church! And, you know, you can sic your cardinal on some foo's.

Myth

01-16-2012, 09:20

I definitely want my Cardinal to help me contact the Pope. He has to pull the Venetians back from our borders! When I want to write the leaders of enemy factions do I PM you NB?

Nightbringer

01-16-2012, 09:37

I definitely want my Cardinal to help me contact the Pope. He has to pull the Venetians back from our borders! When I want to write the leaders of enemy factions do I PM you NB?

Yep, that is exactly what you do!

Also, bear in mind, anyone is free to speak to other factions at any time (through myself), and it may be as secret or public as you wish.

phonicsmonkey

01-16-2012, 10:00

I definitely want my Cardinal to help me contact the Pope. He has to pull the Venetians back from our borders! When I want to write the leaders of enemy factions do I PM you NB?

You can have mine if you want, he's closer to Rome

Nightbringer

01-16-2012, 10:25

You can have mine if you want, he's closer to Rome

They are at about the same location, but you can feel free to transfer agents or any property you want, as long as both characters agree.

phonicsmonkey

01-16-2012, 10:27

They are at about the same location, but you can feel free to transfer agents or any property you want, as long as both characters agree.

Yeah, I just realised that - no worries, we'll keep a Cardinal each then

Ignoramus

01-16-2012, 12:07

Thanks for the invite NB! I just got back today and am quite eager to join. May I take Bokony a Huntpaznan?

phonicsmonkey

01-16-2012, 12:44

yay, Iggy's joining!

Myth

01-16-2012, 12:56

He's good at RPing I was sure he'd come by! Welcome! :2thumbsup:

phonicsmonkey

01-16-2012, 13:00

The guys that got randomly allocated merchants got really lucky - the one in italy is raking in 400 per turn and the other one 125!

EDIT: and we can't recruit any more, doh! I have an iron mine I want a merchant sitting on

Myth

01-16-2012, 13:07

I need to open the save and take a look at the map before I can continue the IC discussion.

phonicsmonkey

01-16-2012, 13:16

Look at the faction rankings too - those Romans you want to fight will crush us if NB is making them act sensibly.

Myth

01-16-2012, 13:53

If he makes them act sensibly they'll retake Constantinople and Bulgaria and Serbia. They have an elite stack near Constantinople and probably more armies in Greece. If we kick them out of Europe we can hold them back at the Bosphorus and let the Turks, K-Shah and Egyptians eat them alive. NB can also allow us to use diplomacy to have the Muslims smash them to bits. We don't get the AI free units and gold but we do have Hungarian Nobles and Cuman HAs...

Myth

01-16-2012, 22:28

Moved merchant to lesser mine, aiming to take him to the silver bottle resource next to Venice which will give him 700+ gpt.
Moved Cardinal towards Constantinople.
Dismissed 70 Crusader Foot Knights.
Dismissed 3 full units of Pavise Spearmen + one 132 men unit in Constantinople
Recruiting one unit of Slav Levies as a garrison for Varad.
Granting Phonicsmonkey 3 recruitment slots from Varad for Cuman Horse Archers (recruitment costs to be covered by his character)
Requesting that 2 Hungarian Nobles and 2 Magyar Cav be recruited in Sofia (I believe the castle is nobody's?)
I wish to entrust the Privy Seal to the Junior King as a sign of good faith. (Also to free up room for Constantinople's title)

King's finances in excel spreadsheet here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9844).

Save is here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9845).

phonicsmonkey

01-16-2012, 23:10

Granting Phonicsmonkey 3 recruitment slots from Varad for Cuman Horse Archers (recruitment costs to be covered by his character)

I will queue up two of them next turn and one the turn after

Myth

01-16-2012, 23:12

I believe we are not supposed to queue anything, NB takes care of the recruitment, you just say what you want recruited and where, right? That's what I did anyway.

phonicsmonkey

01-17-2012, 00:37

I believe we are not supposed to queue anything, NB takes care of the recruitment, you just say what you want recruited and where, right? That's what I did anyway.

Oh, sorry NB - I queued up two crossbow at Zagreb

Do you want me to refrain in future turns? It might be simpler if we do it so you don't have to remember and piece together everyone's pms / posts

Just as long as we report it to you for financial purposes? Let me know what you think

Ignoramus

01-17-2012, 03:30

Ok, I'm assuming I can just look at the save and find out where my guy and stuff is. I'm just a little bit confused. A quick explanation by NB or someone else would be great!

Edit: Also, could we create a separate thread for the save games? It would make it easier to keep track of.

Nightbringer

01-17-2012, 04:49

I believe we are not supposed to queue anything, NB takes care of the recruitment, you just say what you want recruited and where, right? That's what I did anyway.

Sorry no, you should do the actual recruitment and such, just record it all in the end of turn financial report as you did.
Phonics, you did it right.

Welcome Ignoramus!

Feel free to look at the save. The stuff that your character controls is listed in the first post of the OOC thread (I will try to keep this up to date for all characters, listing provinces, titles, agents, and armies.) Up to date rules are also listed there.

Ignoramus - Bokony a Huntpaznan nembol
Duke of Brasov
Titles: Palatine
Armies: The garrison of Brasov
Agents: Bishop Lambert az Opor nembol

also, I have created a new thread for saved games.

Myth, I went ahead and did that recruitment for you, but in the future, you can do it yourself.

the new save is in the save thread.

Ignoramus

01-17-2012, 05:17

Nightbringer

01-17-2012, 05:28

Just some more clarification. Having checked the save, I'm debating whether I want to swap to the other free character. Does the Palatine get to judge upon Rule disputes like the Kaiser in KotR? And can the King strip him of his title?

I'm not sure how it worked in KotR, but basically he does indeed get to judge upon IC rules disputes. However, if he penalizes a noble the penalty must be okayed by the king. (so he can't just screw over all the other nobles).
And yes, the title is granted, and can be taken away, by the king.
IC, Of course, if a king were to strip the title of a Palatine who was seen as just it might inflame the nobility, and their has been discussion among the nobility in the past of the Palatine being elected by them, rather than chosen by the king.

phonicsmonkey

01-17-2012, 06:03

I'm really enjoying this game so far - I have loads of ideas for stories and I'm finding myself thinking about it a lot...looking forward to it getting rolling!

Nightbringer

01-17-2012, 06:46

I'm really enjoying this game so far - I have loads of ideas for stories and I'm finding myself thinking about it a lot...looking forward to it getting rolling!
glad to hear it!

Ignoramus

01-17-2012, 08:13

Thanks for the clarification, NB. As tempting as it is to act as the evil henchman of the king, I think I'll switch characters if I may, and take Andras.

Also, has anyone contacted GH, TC, or Tristan? Or any of the other KotR/LotR veterans? We definitely need to get some of them to join!

Nightbringer

01-17-2012, 08:26

I haven't, but please feel free to.
And you may certainly take Andras

Myth

01-17-2012, 09:07

Lol NB just threw a hot potato at me via diplomacy :laugh4:

Nightbringer

01-17-2012, 09:35

Lol NB just threw a hot potato at me via diplomacy :laugh4:

well, I can't let you guys get off easy you know.
:)

phonicsmonkey

01-17-2012, 12:19

Lol NB just threw a hot potato at me via diplomacy :laugh4:

Do fill us in at court!

Nightbringer

01-18-2012, 03:32

Just to let everyone know, I am calling the save in about 30 hours. :)

phonicsmonkey

01-18-2012, 03:44

Also, has anyone contacted GH, TC, or Tristan? Or any of the other KotR/LotR veterans? We definitely need to get some of them to join!

I just sent a pm to these guys and econ21 describing the game and inviting them to join.

Zim

01-18-2012, 04:59

Nightbringer

01-18-2012, 05:03

Done with the save.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9853

Finances: Recruited one unit of Hungarian nobles, spending 970 of my 1000 florins.
Castle income is 1947
Upkeep is 885 for all non free upkeep units. I think my castle can also support the nobles I'm recruiting. If not that will throw off that projected upkeep.
So, profit of 1062
Are we paying our general's wages?

Generals do not have wages int his version of the game, so no. Also, recruited units don't have upkeep until next turn, so that is when you will begin paying it. In other words, you did everything right except that this should go in the save thread :)

Zim

01-18-2012, 05:17

But everyone else has been posting it here and I'd be lonely by myself in the save thread. ~;p

While we're on the subject would you prefer an itemized report? Pavise spearmen (200 upkeep) etc.

Generals do not have wages int his version of the game, so no. Also, recruited units don't have upkeep until next turn, so that is when you will begin paying it. In other words, you did everything right except that this should go in the save thread :)

phonicsmonkey

01-18-2012, 05:19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcFPdhxbJfM&ob=av2n

Nightbringer

01-18-2012, 05:29

Ignoramus

01-18-2012, 07:56

Do I have to worry about my SS6.4 settings being the same each time, or is it irrelevant once a campaign's started?

Nightbringer

01-18-2012, 07:59

Do I have to worry about my SS6.4 settings being the same each time, or is it irrelevant once a campaign's started?

it is relevant i believe. so to be safe you should change them each time.

Ignoramus

01-18-2012, 08:01

it is relevant i believe. so to be safe you should change them each time.

Thanks for that. Will make sure I do. BTW, does anyone know what the limit for childbearing for female characters in SS6.4 is?

GeneralHankerchief

01-18-2012, 08:12

Hey folks,

Thanks for the invite, don't think I'll be able to take you up on it at the moment but I'm hoping this isn't the case in the future. In the meantime, this setup looks pretty interesting and I'm sure I don't even need to wish you "best of luck" with it. :yes: :wink:

Nightbringer

01-18-2012, 08:24

Myth

01-18-2012, 09:08

In SS it gets progressively more difficult for a woman to give birth past 30. Around 40 it's pretty much useless to try. Which is why marrying the 40 year old virgin to an enemy FH is a great way to stunt his royal line.

Ignoramus

01-18-2012, 10:26

That's really annoying then - we have 4 princesses which we could have married off to generals, but its too much of a risk, as unlike in the Middle Ages in MTWII you've only got one shot at it.

Save's done BTW.

Nightbringer

01-18-2012, 11:48

so it is!

I was hoping House Stark and cecil would make it, but it is just the first turn so I think they will be okay.

Myth

01-18-2012, 12:30

Hold on, NB can you recruit a Spy for me somewhere? I need to see what the ERE has this side of the Bosphorus.

Also. who of the player characters holds any title? I remember a list of titles that the King can give out.

phonicsmonkey

01-18-2012, 12:56

In V&V we rushed off in all directions starting wars with all our neighbours and got our asses handed to us by Cecil who was hotseat-controlling them all. It took us months to dig ourselves out of the hole.

Just don't say I didn't warn you all.

Nightbringer

01-18-2012, 13:06

yep, I got one going for you in targoviste. Also, mithridate will be joining the game on turn 2. Welcome!

Myth

01-18-2012, 13:35

BTW Targoviste has always been a Bulgarian city. Hence no "Emir" for it as well. This is a girl I know from that town:

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/307061_2112529572663_1228377318_32170443_1256616884_n.jpg

She doesn't look like princess Jasmine from Aladdin, hence no Emir of Targoviste, please :laugh4:

Monkey: I don't want us to fight everyone. Ultimately though, it's up to the GM and he can always stomp the players, just like in a DnD game. If NB roleplays the ERE correctly they will be much weaker than what a SS game suggests, since the ERE traditionally had huge civil wars and a lot of backstbbing. Emperors changed on a regular basis and there was always some usurper somewhere grasping for the throne. Giving anything to Joe Schmoe who thinks he is emperor now is foolhardy, as in five years some new young buck can grab the throne and start a war to reclaim all of our lands under the pretext of it being part of the ancient Roman Empire at some point. I'm also hoping that the Pope and the Seljuks/K-shah and Egyptians can all lend a hand in reigning in the ERE.

Plus, we have HA's, so we can manage. Unless I've severely underestimated the ERE's strength in Europe they should not be able to stomp us effortlessly. Mikan's army alone is enough to stalemate that stack if lead correctly, and the settlements in Greece and Serbia are all poorly garrisoned.

The Cumans are quite bloodthirsty but that is only natural. But since there's no Mongols to be had there ain't no one that will step up for them, and if indeed the man with the tall white hat launches a Crusade against them, we can splatter them with the Crusader mercs.

Venice/HRE are the pre-ordained and GM approved conflict at the moment, and of that only Venice is a problem with those two stacks. If Rome doesn't help us with them, we can at least stall with forts until they overextend and are trapped in our lands. It might even be better to give them Zagreb if that means we can have Venice and it's trade!

In game terms, the ERE don't have Constantinople which means they cannot recruit/retrain Scholarii. Their other cav is tough but not capable of stomping human controlled armies just like that. Their infantry is HA fodder and thankfully they don't seem to have great archers that are available outside Constantinople. Overall, giving that city to the ERE and allowing them to recruit from it in an RR/RC game will just spell disaster whenever some ERE leader decides to attack us down the road.

With sufficient infantry I'm hoping that Ignoramus can defend the city in a few lead battles, that will give the rest of us more time to grab land. Whatever money I sack in the future I'll divide between him and you to bolster our two defensive forts. Cecil's and Zim's characters can both look to expanding our borders in the mean time.

Mithridate

01-18-2012, 13:37

Thank you! Looking forward to this experience, this is exactly what ive been searching for... a long time :)

BTW Targoviste has always been a Bulgarian city. Hence no "Emir" for it as well. This is a girl I know from that town:

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/307061_2112529572663_1228377318_32170443_1256616884_n.jpg

She doesn't look like princess Jasmine from Aladdin, hence no Emir of Targoviste, please :laugh4:

Monkey: I don't want us to fight everyone. Ultimately though, it's up to the GM and he can always stomp the players, just like in a DnD game. If NB roleplays the ERE correctly they will be much weaker than what a SS game suggests, since the ERE traditionally had huge civil wars and a lot of backstbbing. Emperors changed on a regular basis and there was always some usurper somewhere grasping for the throne. Giving anything to Joe Schmoe who thinks he is emperor now is foolhardy, as in five years some new young buck can grab the throne and start a war to reclaim all of our lands under the pretext of it being part of the ancient Roman Empire at some point. I'm also hoping that the Pope and the Seljuks/K-shah and Egyptians can all lend a hand in reigning in the ERE.

Plus, we have HA's, so we can manage. Unless I've severely underestimated the ERE's strength in Europe they should not be able to stomp us effortlessly. Mikan's army alone is enough to stalemate that stack if lead correctly, and the settlements in Greece and Serbia are all poorly garrisoned.

The Cumans are quite bloodthirsty but that is only natural. But since there's no Mongols to be had there ain't no one that will step up for them, and if indeed the man with the tall white hat launches a Crusade against them, we can splatter them with the Crusader mercs.

Venice/HRE are the pre-ordained and GM approved conflict at the moment, and of that only Venice is a problem with those two stacks. If Rome doesn't help us with them, we can at least stall with forts until they overextend and are trapped in our lands. It might even be better to give them Zagreb if that means we can have Venice and it's trade!

In game terms, the ERE don't have Constantinople which means they cannot recruit/retrain Scholarii. Their other cav is tough but not capable of stomping human controlled armies just like that. Their infantry is HA fodder and thankfully they don't seem to have great archers that are available outside Constantinople. Overall, giving that city to the ERE and allowing them to recruit from it in an RR/RC game will just spell disaster whenever some ERE leader decides to attack us down the road.

With sufficient infantry I'm hoping that Ignoramus can defend the city in a few lead battles, that will give the rest of us more time to grab land. Whatever money I sack in the future I'll divide between him and you to bolster our two defensive forts. Cecil's and Zim's characters can both look to expanding our borders in the mean time.
I agree completely with our good king, we have a lot to gain and little to lose holding Constantinople and taking ERE holdings in the balkan. Holding the city may risk uniting the ERE nobles with a single goal, but if held against an assault they should shatter and start fighting each other.

Venice is a great threat, but should not stray far from their pretty city.

btw I want to recommend a game out of the blue:

If you have not tried it, download Mount and Blade: Warband. Its very similar in ways to this, if you have questions about it just PM me and ill answer any questions. I also recommend updating and downloading the Diplomacy mod and battle sizer whom turns this "old" goldie into pure platinum. In short its a strategy rpg where you can build up an army and even empire literally from dirt bottom. Its hard to get into the first few hours but if you like this, i find it hard to belive you would not like or probably love MnB:Wb

Sorry bout that, TW may hold the spot next to my heart but that game is not far behind. All marvelous in its simple complexity!

Myth

01-18-2012, 13:41

Nightbringer

01-18-2012, 13:59

You have heard reports from the East that Savas is a particularly well liked and successful ruler. He led the Byzantines to completely destroy turkey which had pushed them mostly out of Anatolia, and has won himself the devoted loyalty of many generals.
So bear in mind that while the ERE certainly is a mess quite often, it is currently under the sway of a very successful, but also very old (73), ruler.

You also should't feel like fighting them isn't an option though. I'm not out to kill you guys, but to give you a fun and challenging ride.

Myth

01-18-2012, 14:02

He's 73? Ain't no way in hell that I'm giving up Constantinople now. He's well liked sure, but what if I offer Hungary's assistance to that general with the cav near Constantinople? With my backing we can make sure he becomes the next Basileos, or so he would think. Certainly better chances than simply starting a civil war.

Also, I bet the K-Shah and Eggies don't like him at all.

Mithridate

01-18-2012, 15:38

I think I tired it before, wasn't it an MMO type thing? Plus I'm divided between Skyrim and a SS 6.4 SP campaign as Hungary. With Longer Assimilation on it's real fun, and those starting lands are very defensible! And they can recruit Hungarian Nobles from turn 1, making them one of the most fun nations to start with!

I also have to write, do my After Effects project AND do my duties as CM... If I only had 40 hours per day...
No its not an MMO type of thing :) You are a character on a say a map of Europe that interacts with towns, villages and castles to trade, recruit pesants, nobles and mercenaries to train for troops while interacting with the lands different factions and nobles, fighting tourneys and doing a lot of different "quests" and leading your troops and companions in battle :) Its a simple but also very very complex game. You should try it^^ See if you can become a lord or perhaps even king/queen It can be very hard, unless you cheat by reloading saves :P Skyrim is awesome, sadly i got fed up on it after spending nearly a week constantly playing it^^

You have heard reports from the East that Savas is a particularly well liked and successful ruler. He led the Byzantines to completely destroy turkey which had pushed them mostly out of Anatolia, and has won himself the devoted loyalty of many generals.
So bear in mind that while the ERE certainly is a mess quite often, it is currently under the sway of a very successful, but also very old (73), ruler.

You also should't feel like fighting them isn't an option though. I'm not out to kill you guys, but to give you a fun and challenging ride.
He is terribly old, i wonder if they are united about his heir? Bringing a blade to whoever that may be seem like a good idea. Soon he will die and leave that terribly heavy burden of leadership that oh so many wants, but few can carry alone. If we intervene deftly they will stay divided, at least untill the balkan is ours and by then its too late.

phonicsmonkey

01-19-2012, 00:59

What's all this 'your grace' business in the courtroom? They might call the King that in the game of thrones books but I'm pretty sure it isn't what anyone would have called the king in medieval hungary.

Sire, your highness, your majesty would all be fine I would have thought.

As far as I know 'your grace' would be reserved for an archbishop or a duke in england. To be fair I think the king of scotland used to be called 'your grace' but this isn't scotland!

I know, I am really pedantic but it is bothering me! :clown:

Ignoramus

01-19-2012, 06:43

I've just spent the past hour and a half reading through the KotR Cataclysm thread, and boy, am I annoyed at how I squandered Wolfgang's position. But it was well worth the read though, and has reminded me once again why I love the Org and these games so much.

Ignoramus

01-19-2012, 08:57

It seems those Slav levies I recruited in Sofia didn't get recruited. That means I ought to have 370 florins more.

House Stark

01-19-2012, 08:57

BTW, who owns the spy that is sitting in my fortress?

Nightbringer

01-19-2012, 09:05

The spy belongs to myth/the king.

Ignoramus, I think that is my fault due to some peculiar first turn events. When the turn started, you were not yet in the game and Myth made a request for your character to recruit cavalry in Sofia for the king, filling its production slots.
When I was finishing the turn I was setting this up and must have accidentally canceled your slav levies. You are of course reimbursed the 370 (now changed in the OOC 1st post and the save thread to reflect this), I hope it isn't too much of an issue, and I think such situations should not come up again in the future as every character now has a player.

Myth

01-19-2012, 09:06

Read this link (http://www.heraldica.org/topics/odegard/titlefaq.htm), it really clears things up on who is who and who outranks whom.

Another link (http://my.raex.com/~obsidian/glossary.html) that has foreign titles included.

Bulgaria on the SS map consists of Sofia and Targoviste, although we've held Tessaloniki in the past as well. In order for one to be dubbed Duke of Bulgaria he must be the Baron or Earl of both Sofia and Targoviste and must be approved by the King.

On the subject of how it is proper to address someone, read this page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_and_noble_styles).

In short, the King is addressed as "Your Majesty" or in some instances as "His Royal Majesty", the King's children may be addressed as "my Royal Highness". Dukes are addressed as "Your Grace" in England and as "Your Highness" in most other countries. Everything below - Count, Viscount, Earl and Baron are Lordships, ie. "my Lordship" or simply "my Lord".

You can't all be Dukes. This title is reserved for close relatives of the King or those of his closest friends he has elected to Dukedom. In fact the only one who is fitting to be a Duke is Bokeny and only if he is granted a nice city to be Duke over it's province. Like Constantinople or Tessaloniki.

Nightbringer

01-19-2012, 09:22

phonicsmonkey

01-19-2012, 09:24

Well, it looks like Groef is the most historically accurate title available. I am fine with using that, but it is certainly an unfamiliar word and since the game uses Duke I would be fine with sticking with that out of convenience.
What do other people think?

I'm ok with Duke, I'm not too hung up on accuracy (except your grace, it's driving me mad! I keep hearing Sean bean!)

Ignoramus

01-19-2012, 09:31

Ok, we have a problem - I just took those 4 cav along with me on my march to Thrace. So I guess I'll have to redo my turn.

Also, may I make a suggestion that the funds of everybody are kept private to all except NB? It would make the game more interesting.

Myth

01-19-2012, 09:40

Nightbringer

01-19-2012, 09:59

It is possible that his character is just like that Myth, I suggest you give him an IC warning. :)

And yes, your finances will be private from here on, I just posted them on the first turn because of various people coming in and out of the game. I wanted new people to know how much money they would have, and to have it public in case people had to leave right after starting. From now on all finances will be private.

Also, I can change the title in character descriptions to Count in this forum, but I would have to modify game files to change it in the game and that would require us to restart. So the actual in-game titles will still say Duke, even though you are all counts.

Now that we have got all the characters filled up with a stable group, I am going to remove funds from the character descriptions and change the titles to count.

Nightbringer

01-19-2012, 10:11

Nightbringer

01-19-2012, 10:16

Also, since finances will now be secret, everyone should PM your end of turn report to me when it is ready, rather than posting it.

Ignoramus

01-19-2012, 11:25

Myth, I know how frustrating it can be if things happen that seem to be ahistorical, but don't let that detract from it. If vassals are being too rebellious for your liking, do something about it. You got powers as King - use them to suggest that loyalty and obedience is more profitable and safer than disloyalty.

Nightbringer

01-19-2012, 11:29

Just to let everyone know, I included a sample format for end of turn reports in the first post.

You can format them as you wish, but that is one example which is clear to me.

Zim

01-19-2012, 11:37

If nothing else, possession of two settlements and the King's Purse gives him a massive advantage incomewise. I can barely support my army if I leave the castle and lose the free upkeep.

Count sounds fine to me, although I rather like Groef.

Spoilered discussion starting here is likely might be better hashed out here in the OOC thread than trapped in spoilers in an IC thread...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?139689-Lords-of-the-Danube-Courtroom&p=2053414415&viewfull=1#post2053414415

That post sounds more to me like how Kings expected feudalism to behave than how it was on the ground in most countries. Unless Hungary was radically different in that period from other feudal nations.

Realism is tricky in these types of games, and often comes to a balance between making the game fun and versimillitude (not quite the same as realism. an example of is how much "your grace" bothers Phonics even if it was the right address for some levels of nobility), and where that balance should be is likely to differ among all players. We just have to find a point at which everyone can compromise.

Funny thing is, the more I read about medieval history the more I suspect the players in these games actually argue less and act more united than actual rulers did, from France to Anatolia to Baghdad to Tokyo. :clown:

Nightbringer

01-19-2012, 11:44

Count sounds fine to me, although I rather like Groef.

Anyone who wants to be a Groef just let me know, otherwise you will be a Count unless you come into possession of significant amounts of land, in which case the king might promote you to Duke.

Myth

01-19-2012, 11:59

I abandoned the first KOTN game exactly because TCV roleplayed the Basileus as the end-all, be-all ruler who owned ALL the armies and ALL the lands and no one could so much as speak rudely without worrying about being punished like a mischievous child. Even in my spoilered tag I said it makes sense game wise for the nobles to own their towns, otherwise the game will regress in a similar fashion.

I don't want to be a history nazi nor do I want to tell people what to do just because I got the King as a character, but a knight saying "our lands" in front of his royal sovereign is too absurd, hence me explaining feudalism. Monkey says he disagrees with "my view on history", I'd like to hear arguments and see sources of how feudalism actually worked which differ from my very simplified explanation, please :bow:

Once again: I understand that the King is in the most advantageous position mechanics wise and I do not want to force other players to grovel and scrape before me IC, that just sucks and repeats KotN all over again. I just want some historical accuracy at least fluff wise.

Two armies headed for Constantinople? NB I thought you said the ERE was tied up in Asia Minor :wall:

Ignoramus

01-19-2012, 12:05

I'm sure it will happen Myth - as phonics points out, you alone can afford to maintain a strong army No one can even afford the expense of rebelling against you.

phonicsmonkey

01-19-2012, 12:07

a knight saying "our lands" in front of his royal sovereign is too absurd

Not if they are his ancestral home.

I'd rather not go into too much detail about the reasons behind the very deliberate words I'm choosing (because it will spoil the game) but they make perfect sense to me given the backstory. My character's father was King before the current one. Then there was a deal between the two cousins quickly followed by a revolt / civil war. Think about it and you'll understand why I (and others) might feel that this particular King might not be as strong and able to be tyrannical as others.

EDIT: I don't have enough time to go into a full-blown historical debate about feudalism with you but I'll just quickly address your point by saying that I don't believe any King can ever rule without the consent of his nobles. They inhabit and bear arms to defend their lands and in that practical sense they own them utterly. History is full, absolutely full of examples of tension between the sovereign and his lords. Sometimes one has the political upper hand, sometimes the other.

Nightbringer

01-19-2012, 12:14

Two armies headed for Constantinople? NB I thought you said the ERE was tied up in Asia Minor :wall:

Perhaps that does reflect them being tied up in Asia Minor. If you manage to get some spies to Syria, I think you will understand.

Zim

01-19-2012, 12:44

That's a pretty big topic, and will likely need some sourcing from your end as well. All I can say for myself is that the common theme through university classes on medieval history was that feudalism was both caused by and a cause of decentralization. Monarchs would have much theoretical power but far less practical power to do what they want. Oftentimes even in situations where grants of land were not intended to be hereditary they became so (mid to late Ottoman history is a good example of this).

I've got the TWS2 rules revisions, work, and a night out with the wife this weekend, but I'll look through the books I do own on the subject when I can.

In the meantime rather than collect a few dubious internet sources or quick, possibly out of contexts quotes from flipping through aforementioned books I posted a thread on the topic in the monastery, where there are people more qualified than I to try to settle the matter one way or the other. The thread can be found here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?139831-Feudalism-question&p=2053414457#post2053414457). :bow:

Myth

01-19-2012, 12:46

OK :) Well guys it appears I need to check the save before responding. Mithirdate has spoken to the Cuman Khan and we may yet turn his private dealings to our advantage. We have good news concerning Venice but apparently the French King has gone apesh*t and so the West won't really help us. There's much benefit to be had if we vanquish the HRE but we have to secure our positions vs the ERE/Cumans first.

I have an idea about funds - I think of dismantling the Scholarii Barracks in Constantinople. This will be represented as Pozsony abolishing the training grounds and indeed the organization of the Scholarii/Cathaphractoi of old, raiding their building for the gold. The gold I intend to split between the nobles so that they can recruit or not go into debt. I'll see if there's any other "ERE only" buildings that could go. We don't really benefit from the Scholarii Barracks anyway, and if the ERE gets Constantinople I don't want them to be able to recruit them at least for a while.

Hopefully I can match that force outside the city and we can also defend Varad from the Coo-mans.

Yes I understand that in Feudalism we had the constant back-and-forth between centralized power and local power. A strong King means more centralized rule, a weak king means the nobles do whatever the hell they want. This doesn't change the fact that he technically owed their land though. I do understand your IC post now, I had forgotten about the backstory.

Zim

01-19-2012, 12:51

True, but "technically" owning land or even commanding armies of supposed slaves (speak with some deposed rulers from Medieval Egypt or the Ottoman Empire about that latter one) is very different from actually doing so, especially in the premodern period. :clown:

At any rate, here's to crushing our enemies and driving them before us~ ~:cheers:

Myth

01-19-2012, 13:03

The Ottomans and slavery are a painful subject for any Bulgarian. We've been butchered and raped for 500 years by the Turks. They tore down everything they could - churches, castles, walls... The people were forced to live in fear and oppression. The capital of the Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Kingdom) is my actual home town of Veliko Turnovo. The castle has been reconstructed in the 1970s as we only have the foundations to go by. There is the terrific sound & light show there, though, and that's a sight to see. I have it posted on my Facebook and the videos are public.

Vid 1 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=101713395019). Vid 2 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=101961965019).

http://i.frognews.bg/images/novini/carevec.jpg

Anyway the Ottomans were met with resistance in our lands at least. Several revolts happened and we never actually served them apart from the Janissaries who were taken as babies and raised to be part of the infamous warrior caste. This was called "the blood tax" and families would hide their newborn sons to avoid it. There's more and more absurdities and horrors I could mention but that's not the point. The point is that yes, being an overlord to unwilling slaves never works out. That's why the banking elite and the world "leaders" nowadays enslave us subtly, without the masses knowing it. That's a whole 'nother story however.

phonicsmonkey

01-19-2012, 13:04

At any rate, here's to crushing our enemies and driving them before us~ ~:cheers:

I'll drink to that!

And Myth, glad you catch my drift now...

Ignoramus

01-19-2012, 13:04

Just letting you know I'll be away from tomorrow until the 23rd or 24th. I know it's really unfortunate, but hopefully given that each turn is 72 hours, we shouldn't have any problems.

BTW, Myth, I looked at the buildings at Constantinople - the Scholae Barracks can't be destroyed.

phonicsmonkey

01-19-2012, 13:05

BTW, Myth, I looked at the buildings at Constantinople - the Scholae Barracks can't be destroyed.

Darn, that was a really good idea.

I had a good look at Zagreb too to see if I could pillage anything but no such luck...

Ignoramus

01-19-2012, 13:10

The Hagia Sophia could be destroyed, but then we'll never have peace with the ERE - and Andras wouldn't be happy, the pious chap that he is.

Zim

01-19-2012, 13:11

Ugh. My own ancestors had a history of being enslaved to fight for a foreign government (the British called it "impressment" in their usual understaded way :clown:) as well as a somewhat successful destruction of Irish culture.

Many among those of us that escaped to better lives elsewhere seem to forget about it over a couple generations, though...

The Ottomans and slavery are a painful subject for any Bulgarian. We've been butchered and raped for 500 years by the Turks. They tore down everything they could - churches, castles, walls... The people were forced to live in fear and oppression. The capital of the Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Kingdom) is my actual home town of Veliko Turnovo. The castle has been reconstructed in the 1970s as we only have the foundations to go by. There is the terrific sound & light show there, though, and that's a sight to see. I have it posted on my Facebook and the videos are public.

Vid 1 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=101713395019). Vid 2 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=101961965019).

http://i.frognews.bg/images/novini/carevec.jpg

Anyway the Ottomans were met with resistance in our lands at least. Several revolts happened and we never actually served them apart from the Janissaries who were taken as babies and raised to be part of the infamous warrior caste. This was called "the blood tax" and families would hide their newborn sons to avoid it. There's more and more absurdities and horrors I could mention but that's not the point. The point is that yes, being an overlord to unwilling slaves never works out. That's why the banking elite and the world "leaders" nowadays enslave us subtly, without the masses knowing it. That's a whole 'nother story however.

Myth

01-19-2012, 13:11

Igno where did you move my cav exactly? I needed to unify it with the King's stack, he is rushing towards Constantinople. He might even leave the infantry behind and just go with the cav.

phonicsmonkey

01-19-2012, 13:18

Igno where did you move my cav exactly? I needed to unify it with the King's stack, he is rushing towards Constantinople. He might even leave the infantry behind and just go with the cav.

If we'd co-ordinated better you could have saved me about 140 fl on magyar cav - seems poszony gets a discount on them if he's sitting in the castle when they are recruited.

Zim

01-19-2012, 13:21

Destroy the Hagia Sophia? Madness. If I could go back in time and rule a powerful medieval country in the area in that time period I'd be trying to save it. ~;p

phonicsmonkey

01-19-2012, 13:23

Destroy the Hagia Sophia? Madness. If I could go back in time and rule a powerful medieval country in the area in that time period I'd be trying to save it. ~;p

Just think of the money Zim, all that beautiful money.....oops, giving myself away as the banking elite, better hush up now :clown:

Myth

01-19-2012, 13:41

The King hoofed it towards Constantinople last turn, he didn't sit back in Varad. The cav from Sofia could have caught up this turn but If Igno moved it somewhere else... :/ Why did he even move it without asking me?

Mithridate

01-19-2012, 13:46

Groef means Graf or Count in English. Count is fine. The SS team who made the titles focused on making the Western cities more accurate and threw the East to the dogs (as usual). The title of Duke is an important one and should not be used lightly. Everyone is a Count, Viscount, Earl or Baron unless the King says they are a Duke. NB can change title names accordingly via the console.

Also, Mithridate, I notice a trend in the way you speak in character - the Kievan Rus representatives in MoT is the same as your current character in this game. You speak brashly, yell a lot and have very strong opinions and tend to give orders. Such words as "we must decide" and such and such thing must happen does not fly in the 1200s where the King has absolute power. Try to be more suggestive and less provocative, please :yes:

What is this talk I hear of two stacks camped in front of Constantinople? Can I get a screenshot? Indeed I thought our finances were private, hence me protecting my spreadsheet with a password.
I will be more subtle, or try to but my character is one with affinity to dread and money. But the demands are more than reasonable since i do have a Cuman army + reinforcements looting and killing outside my gates in such numbers that i will need help to expel them. I agree to the similarities to the MoT diplomat, but keep in mind those where former violent Norse conquerors who lived to fight unlike my current fellow. But maybe im inclined to "cunning" kind of characters even though i like Chivalrous way more.

After all, all the lords must serve to expel invading armies. Arguing over this and that does not serve that purpose, if i was there i too would demand decision and go back to fight for my lands.

And ill make sure to use the proper titles henceforth

Zim

01-19-2012, 13:50

On a side note I have to say how impressed I am with the game's start so far. So many new players and plenty of ic debate in the courtroom. It seems like a very good beginning.

Myth

01-20-2012, 08:52

I will be able to move my character and reply in the IC tonight, I wasn't able to do so last night.

Nightbringer

01-20-2012, 09:21

The turn will probably run a little long this time since I don't want to stay up till 4 in the morning to catch it :)

Myth

01-20-2012, 23:21

It's really late today guys, an IC post tomorrow. Basically the war with the ERE was pretty much inevitable. The Cumans are headed for Varad, Mithirdate's character offered them tribute to leave his lands be. However we have his armies there as well as the other stack in Targoviste so we should be fine if you guys get to lead your battles.

Zim takes Belgrade, oh and also I'm pretty sure Venice won't attack us in earnest, they are there mainly for show. Phonics you can go and grab a settlement or help fend off the Cumans.

Myth

01-21-2012, 11:06

Today is a working day here in Bulgaria... :whip:

Cecil XIX

01-22-2012, 02:12

Would this be a bad time to point out I've never played Stainless Steel before? :sweatdrop: In anycase, I hope there are more generals available.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to take any screenshots of the battle. Not sure why things didn't work, but I think I know that I can do to get instant confirmation in the future.

Nightbringer

01-22-2012, 02:38

Well, there was an adoption offer this turn but unfortunately it failed, even when I tried reloading a couple times. (if it could succeed, I would have asked if the adopter wanted to accept)

I will do the best a can to get another avatar available to soon though. Does anyone know of a way to use the console to get one?

Zim

01-22-2012, 10:27

Looks like I'm late to go after Belgrade any other preferred targets for Demeter?

Zim takes Belgrade, oh and also I'm pretty sure Venice won't attack us in earnest, they are there mainly for show. Phonics you can go and grab a settlement or help fend off the Cumans.

Myth

01-22-2012, 11:39

Sorry, I mistook you for Mikan's player. Zim you should go after the Cumans, but let me check the save first.

phonicsmonkey

01-22-2012, 11:45

NB, is the sacking money from Belgrade sitting there for us to pick up or did it get lost when Mikan died?

Zim

01-22-2012, 11:50

One Cuman fortress in range, has a decent garrison but if I recall I can't see all of the troops in it so I can't vouch for quality.

Edit: Correct that. The bulk of their garrison seems to have wandered off somewhere.

Sorry, I mistook you for Mikan's player. Zim you should go after the Cumans, but let me check the save first.

phonicsmonkey

01-22-2012, 12:31

Edit: Correct that. The bulk of their garrison seems to have wandered off somewhere.

I expect NB will ensure they wander back as soon as you siege it

Zim

01-22-2012, 12:33

True. That would put us at even numbers if they didn't have even more troops around somewhere. Actually, I'd be at a bit of a disadvantage. Forgot I'd recruited three units for another player.

I expect NB will ensure they wander back as soon as you siege it

phonicsmonkey

01-22-2012, 12:34

you could go garrison-hunting first, knock them out and then go to the fortress

Zim

01-22-2012, 12:37

Maybe, Wish I had a spy, using cavalry for it is a bit of a pain.

Demeter waits on the word of his illustrious monarch. :bow:

you could go garrison-hunting first, knock them out and then go to the fortress

phonicsmonkey

01-22-2012, 12:40

Wish I had a spy, using cavalry for it is a bit of a pain.

Yeah, expensive

Zim

01-22-2012, 12:43

I wouldn't move them so far as to become unsupported, but then that just leaves crappy range (need to return to army at the end of the turn) in addition to not seeing many tiles away (although at least my general ha a cav movement bonus).

Yeah, expensive

Myth

01-22-2012, 13:01

Who has the guy and armies sitting at Targoviste?

Zim

01-22-2012, 13:09

House Stark

Zim

01-22-2012, 21:59

Any directions from the King? I can sit tight and recruit some cheap units if need be.

Nightbringer

01-23-2012, 00:00

Hmm, good question about Belgrade's sacking money. It never actually got sacked because it was taken when Cecil won the defensive battle, but I think I can make 1000 gold available for the money from just taking occupying a settlement. That money goes to Myth/King Pozsony since they are his troops. The settlement of Belgrade is also under his nominal control until it is claimed by another, just as Constantinople is.

phonicsmonkey

01-23-2012, 00:29

The settlement of Belgrade is also under his nominal control until it is claimed by another, just as Constantinople is.

Understood - but we need an avatar there if we want to control the troops in any battle.

Nightbringer

01-23-2012, 01:25

Understood - but we need an avatar there if we want to control the troops in any battle.

correct. Otherwise it will be autoresolved

phonicsmonkey

01-23-2012, 13:52

There's a bit of chat going on about fighting each other's battles. As far as I know this has never been allowed in previous throne room RPGs (Zim, can you confirm?)

My own view (which may not carry any weight at all) is that we could perhaps allow the GM to fight if a player is absent for a crucial battle (eg. Mithri has let me know he's going to be away until 27th) but that it's against the spirit of the game to let players control each others avatars.

What does everyone else think? NB?

Zim

01-23-2012, 14:38

In past games from my recollection they've been a bit strict at times about players having to fight their own battles. One of the exceptions was if someone knew they were going to be away for a while (so people wouldn't lose their avatar just because they had a week long business trip or something).

Cecil or Ignoramus may be able to correct me. They've both been in these games longer than I have.

And, of course, it's entirely up to NB whether he'd want to follow any "precedent" or make his own ruling.

Myth

01-23-2012, 14:57

Yeah only if the person is absent or if the other avatar comes up as reinforcements and the player agrees. I asked Monkey if I could delegate the HA army to him though I'm fairly confident I can use them well even though I prefer western factions overall.

Nightbringer

01-23-2012, 17:24

I am okay with players designating other players if they are going to be away and do so beforehand. It doesn't make a lot of sense in context, but I wouldn't want real life to force battles to be auto-resolved.

would also be fine with fighting the battle myself but I can see that some players would worry about my being biased since I am controlling other factions. I can promise you that my goal isn't to "win," so I would fight the battle for you to the best of my ability, but I don't feel comfortable forcing people to let me play the battle unless they miss the 24 hour deadline without letting me know they would be unavailable beforehand.

Also, just so everyone is aware, battles without a character general in them (ie, captain led battles) will be auto-resolved.

phonicsmonkey

01-23-2012, 21:37

I asked Monkey if I could delegate the HA army to him though I'm fairly confident I can use them well even though I prefer western factions overall.

Happy to take charge of an army for you old chap. Apologies if I misunderstood you!

Myth

01-23-2012, 21:57

phonicsmonkey

01-23-2012, 22:08

I meant the HA battle, though surely any excess troops can be distributed amongst the nobles. I grant you your recent conquest, btw how much longer until the save ends? I'll beable to lift the siege on Constantinople tomorrow.

I don't want to take credit for Cecil's achievement! But thanks and if you have the time perhaps you could do the same IC?

Nightbringer

01-24-2012, 01:12

I am going to take the save late tonight. Or at least that is what I plan on doing.

Cecil XIX

01-24-2012, 02:21

I consider it absolutely essential to the spirit of these games that only those players whose avatar is present in the battle can take command. Reputations are built and lost in this manner, and it's important as a way to bind player and character together. Frankly I'd prefer it that way even when real life intervenes, although our situation seems to be a bit tougher in this case.

Incidentally, I'm fine being on the waiting list for a general. Shall I create my own character to participate in the Council discussion, then?

phonicsmonkey

01-24-2012, 04:19

House Stark

01-24-2012, 06:57

Nightbringer

01-24-2012, 07:46

Do we receive any income for blockading an enemy port? I'm currently blockading a Cuman port and it seems reasonable to assume that my war galley would be generating income from seizure of enemy trade vessels. Nightbringer, what are your thoughts on this?

I'll take a look at it during the enemy turn and approximate an amount that you get from blockading based on that.

As to fighting battles for other people, I think Cecil's comments make a lot of sense, and in the future I will ask that players designate me to sub their battles, along with as specific instructions as possible. Mithri did a very good job of detailing the battle in this case, and I believe the battle plan truly was his, and it was only enacted by his sub.

And yes, Cecil you are first on the waiting list and you should feel free to create a character for counsel discussion. This character could end up being in the service of your future avatar or something if you want.

Ignoramus

01-24-2012, 07:47

Hey guys I'm back! It seems quite a lot has happened already. Could someone please give me a quick summary?

Nightbringer

01-24-2012, 07:52

Basically, war has started with the byzantines and cumans. Mikan died taking belgrade from the byzies, and the cumans were beaten back in the east. Constantinople is still under siege though and a couple large armies of byzie troops have been spotted.

Myth

01-24-2012, 08:43

Can you wait until 10pm European time or so? HouseStark has obliged to provide his character and troops in order for me to push back the main ERE stack. After that I'll rush down with only my cav and lift the siege on Constantinople.

Nightbringer

01-24-2012, 09:00

sure

Myth

01-24-2012, 18:30

I'm on it right now, just doing my finances before I start the battle. I was disappointed to find a THIRD ERE stack just across from the channel :stare: Are spies allowed to open things?

GOD DAMN IT! Just as I was winning the battle I got a "wait for program to respont" :whip:

We won the battle. I have screenshots, but an IC writeup will come later. I had preserved 90% of my HA units until the very end of the game, when the enemy general charged at them. I counter charged from all sides with my genreal and all my Hungarian Nobles and Magyar Cav. He slaughtered 5 units by himself. Stupid overpowered AI bonuses :shame:

Album (https://imageshack.us/g/684/kingdoms201201242014070.jpg/)

House Stark

01-24-2012, 21:58

Thanks for keeping me alive, Myth. lol

The reason I used Rapidshare instead of the file uploader here is that I don't have correct permissions or something and it won't let me use it.

Zim

01-24-2012, 22:03

What does it say when you try to upload?

Thanks for keeping me alive, Myth. lol

The reason I used Rapidshare instead of the file uploader here is that I don't have correct permissions or something and it won't let me use it.

House Stark

01-24-2012, 22:47

What does it say when you try to upload?

There's not even an option to upload, just the list of files available to download.

Mithridate

01-24-2012, 22:49

Thanks for keeping me alive, Myth. lol

The reason I used Rapidshare instead of the file uploader here is that I don't have correct permissions or something and it won't let me use it.
Same for me most often unless i compress it into a .rar but thats prolly due to horribly slow connection. Shows and orange exclamation mark with some code as info

And thank you for keeping my city and people alive noble ally! And to you rest for letting him do it, others fighting your battles should be allowed but avoided at all costs imho.

Well played myth! may i ask how you killed the BG? Usually they're extremely resistant to arrow fire, amazed you brought them down with so little losses

Myth

01-24-2012, 23:34

I killed everything but as I said the Genreal just massacred 5 units of HAs of mine. HouseStark's own BG was safe since it too had the AI bonus of +lol to defense. The battle ended abruptly as everyone fled, but fortunately the BG was offered for ransom. I executed them, figuring that 2500 gold might get me 3 Hungarian Nobles but if that stack was allowed to live it'd be a lot harder to push back the ERE.

phonicsmonkey

01-25-2012, 00:55

I'm confused, why didn't House Stark fight the battle himself?

House Stark

01-25-2012, 01:47

I'm confused, why didn't House Stark fight the battle himself?

Both my forces and the king's were involved and the king outranks me, so I put my forces under his control.

phonicsmonkey

01-25-2012, 04:58

Both my forces and the king's were involved and the king outranks me, so I put my forces under his control.

Ah, got it - thanks!

Nightbringer

01-25-2012, 06:11

okay, I am taking the save in a few hours. Mithri, if you want your stuff to do anything on the campaign map you should send me a pm. Iggy, if you want to make any moves this turn you had better hurry up :)

I'm on it right now, just doing my finances before I start the battle.

I never got an end of turn report from you Myth, if you are still working on it that is fine, just thought maybe you forgot based on that comment.

Ignoramus

01-25-2012, 07:45

Ok NB, I'm doing it now!!

Myth

01-25-2012, 08:41

I have the spreadsheet I just forgo to upload it. I'll send it today.

Nightbringer

01-26-2012, 08:28

I need your report before the next turn can start myth... :)

Nightbringer

01-27-2012, 19:55

Hey everyone, Quirl is going to be joining the game!

Welcome Quirl!

Quirl

01-27-2012, 20:17

Thanks for letting me in your guys' group! I'll do my best to catch up...

:gossip: :surprised: :gossip:

Zim

01-27-2012, 20:21

Welcome Quirl. ~:cheers:

Myth

01-29-2012, 16:16

I'm waiting a response from Rome before I make my turn FYI.

Myth

01-30-2012, 10:21

phonicsmonkey

01-30-2012, 11:29

I think perhaps I should step back from this game. It takes too much time compared to regular hotseats and my schedule can't permit me regularly playing these in 48 hours and replying to ~10 diplomacy messages per turn. It's promising however and we have a lot of new recruits so someone can take the King. Perhaps Cecil whom valiantly sacrificed his character to win us a city?

Noooooo!

Maybe instead we can try to lighten the load on the King a bit? It sounds a bit much

(Obviously Cecil would make a fine King, it's just a shame to be losing someone so early!)

Myth

01-30-2012, 12:46

Nightbringer

01-30-2012, 23:15

Not losing me, I'll help with the images/sigs etc. and I enjoyed the game but knowing that I have to play my save virtually every day and that it's not simply bashing the AI but every move on the map requires diplomacy and has diplomatic consequences it's overall too much of a time sink for me.

We;;, if you are determined to go I can't stop you, but I will say I am sad you are leaving. If you want to give it a little more time, you could lighten the load a bit by delegating some diplomatic tasks to other players. For example, appointing the Junior King to manage diplomacy with Venice and the HRE. Or things like that. And now that I have slowed things down it is more like a turn every 4 days.

As to the save, sorrow about the delay everyone. I am in the middle of midterms, but I should have the save up in a few hours.

Ibn-Khaldun

01-30-2012, 23:19

Are there any characters still available?

Nightbringer

01-30-2012, 23:21

Are there any characters still available?

Interesting question, especially given recent circumstances and your name...

The answer is yes and no. Right now there are not, but i am going to be attempting to use the console to bring in several new avatars this turn, and I think I will be able to succeed. If myth does leave, I think it would probably be best if Cecil took over his spot since he has been here the whole time (provided he wants to be king), but you can join Quirl in playing new avatars.

Ibn-Khaldun

01-30-2012, 23:27

Hahaa..

Well, if Cecil wants to be king then I don't mind. I think that would be too much of a responsibility for me at the moment anyway. I'm fine playing any new avatars you spawn.

phonicsmonkey

01-30-2012, 23:51

For example, appointing the Junior King to manage diplomacy with Venice and the HRE.

Fine by me!

Quirl

01-31-2012, 02:56

Hey The King! Be nice to have another new player to this thing (other than me). :beam:

Any chance you're related to...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01fwPZAVEbA

Nightbringer

01-31-2012, 10:24

until I here back from Cecil, I will control the King. Unless Myth is still up for it.

Myth

01-31-2012, 15:05

No, that's fine. Have fun everyone :yes:

Cecil XIX

02-02-2012, 03:53

I'm going to need a day or two to think about whether I want to accept being King. If there is anyone else interested in the role, I would certainly not mind giving them a chance instead.

Nightbringer

02-02-2012, 04:21

Alright, that is fine by me.

Ibn-Khaldun

02-02-2012, 16:01

Could someone move my character(Kerecsea Geregye nembol) into Sofia? Also, what traits does he have? I haven't checked the save yet(and can't do that until Sunday).

Nightbringer

02-02-2012, 19:29

I can do it for you at the end of the turn, although anyone else is welcome to do it during their turn as well.

phonicsmonkey

02-03-2012, 00:44

I'm not going to be able to take the save this time, could someone please move my magyar cav into / towards my stack where I'm sitting between Zagreb and Belgrade? I have two units almost there and one unit a bit further back towards varad.

Quirl

02-03-2012, 01:34

Yessir. Hoping to do my turn tonight...

Cecil XIX

02-06-2012, 00:22

Having given the matter ample consideration, I have decided to accept the role of the King. I shall repay my inactivity over these past few days.

EDIT: Incidentally, I strongly urge everyone to update their avatar and user title to reflect their role in-game. This has been the standard practice for everyone in the past during such games KotR, LotR, etc.

Quirl

02-06-2012, 00:32

Hail to the king!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAqq11HYMsk

Nightbringer

02-06-2012, 04:50

excellent, welcome back to the game cecil!

I will pm you your info tonight, but you should have plenty of money for whatever you might want to do this turn, and if you have time it would be great if you could play out the battle for constantinople

phonicsmonkey

02-06-2012, 06:03

hey guys, someone else post something in the story thread so I can continue...even just a placeholder if you haven't finished a story yet...I don't want to triple/quadruple post!

Zim

02-06-2012, 06:48

Done (placeholder, that is. I have screenshots to sort through...).

Zim

02-06-2012, 18:39

The battle will be taken care of soon. Just sending a pm to Quirl first...

Quirl

02-07-2012, 04:58

My M2TW is reeeeeally fighting me right now... -_-*

Gonna try to get it installed again tomorrow.

Nightbringer

02-08-2012, 03:34

turn 6 has begun

Ibn-Khaldun

02-08-2012, 12:52

I checked the save and could someone please tell me why all the settlements were automanaged? Have I done something wrong when I installed the game?

Nightbringer

02-08-2012, 21:08

I checked the save and could someone please tell me why all the settlements were automanaged? Have I done something wrong when I installed the game?

Oh, I think that is because of me. Don't worry, we haven't been automanaging, I briefly made hungary ai controlled during other players turns for mechanics reasons, and it must have reset everything to automanage.

It wouldn't have had a chance to build, tax, or anything like that, so players should just make sure that they set their cities to the tax level etc... that they want during this turn.

Myth

02-09-2012, 10:12

Hey guys I remembered that I owed LoD a battle report for beating the first ERE full stack. Want me to write it out? I think I have screenshots at home too.

Nightbringer

02-09-2012, 10:15

Hey guys I remembered that I owed LoD a battle report for beating the first ERE full stack. Want me to write it out? I think I have screenshots at home too.

Absolutely!

phonicsmonkey

02-09-2012, 10:30

Hey guys I remembered that I owed LoD a battle report for beating the first ERE full stack. Want me to write it out? I think I have screenshots at home too.

Yeah!

Ignoramus

02-09-2012, 13:16

Ok guys, just a quick heads up.

Andras owns the trebuchet en route from Varda. He also owns the Slav Levies guarding the bridge from Bulgaria to Raska and the two units marching to the recently constructed fort near the Carpathian pass. He is charging 200 florins for travel in Bulgaria, except the king (The avatar in Sofia will not be charged for leaving Bulgaria if he desires, but all subsequent nobles or agents must pay, unless granted permission by Andras.

Cecil XIX

02-12-2012, 07:38

Nightbringer

02-12-2012, 22:22

I noticed the King has the 'grim commander' trait. Unfortunately one result of playing this as a hotseat is that we are deprived of the ability to choice how to respond for ransom requests. It's easy enough to fix the traits, but I'm wondering if there's some was to use the console to restore some semblance of this decision? It's a shame too, the fact that the money would come from our character's own pockets makes the traits especially meaningful.

sorry, I am not exactly sure what you mean. Are you talking about the marriage and diplomatic offers I pmed you about? Because those can be responded to by me when the turn begins. I just need you to tell me your decision on those.

Speaking of which, what is your decision no those? That is all the turn is waiting on at the moment. Don't mean to rush you if you are talking with people or something, I just wanted to make sure you know you actually need to choose (as in, tell me your choice) before the turn can start.

phonicsmonkey

02-12-2012, 23:46

I think he's talking about ransom offers that the AI makes when we lose a battle and the fact that his character has a trait that has some bearing on those.

Ibn-Khaldun

02-13-2012, 00:11

Is it possible to sticky the Save thread?

(The avatar in Sofia will not be charged for leaving Bulgaria if he desires, but all subsequent nobles or agents must pay, unless granted permission by Andras.

FYI, before I wrote the post in the courtroom I read this here. Just wrote it there to hopefully stirr up some IC tensions. ~;)

Ignoramus

02-13-2012, 00:53

Is it possible to sticky the Save thread?

FYI, before I wrote the post in the courtroom I read this here. Just wrote it there to hopefully stirr up some IC tensions. ~;)

Don't worry, The King, that sort of stuff is encouraged! I always make sure any heated words or exchanges occur IC, so as to make sure that nothing is meant personally.

phonicsmonkey

02-13-2012, 00:54

Is it possible to sticky the Save thread?

Le voila!

Mithridate

02-14-2012, 02:52

I suggest a change in the laws of the realm, this is mostly for Cecil since he is da boss ofter all but still.

Currently the Palatine is the "judge of legal matters among the nobility" yet the laws of the realm says that the Palatine cannot try any noble without the kings permission. This should be change to "cannot pass judgement over" so the Palatine can solve a "case" and find an appropriate "solution" or "punishment" for it. This would save a lot of trouble whilst the king still holds the intended power, he will always have the last word and be able to overrule anything.

Btw it looks like i will get two additional titles, alternatively rework the Privy seal and ill relenquish my current one. (treasury, Palatine and "diplomat(privy)")

phonicsmonkey

02-14-2012, 02:54

Btw it looks like i will get two additional titles, alternatively rework the Privy seal and ill relenquish my current one. (treasury, Palatine and "diplomat(privy)")

My character currently holds the Privy Seal and it would be quite the insult to take it from him.

I agree with your suggestion about the Palatine.

Mithridate

02-14-2012, 03:44

My character currently holds the Privy Seal and it would be quite the insult to take it from him.

I agree with your suggestion about the Palatine.
You would have been insulted badly then because the privy seal would have been the easy route, but since my character got a crush on yours i think we will find another way^^

Do you know if we have anything in game that could be used as a "diplomat" Title? Anything really, since now i have to have the treasury title ( due to current laws of the realm ) while i want to keep my current Palatine ( enjoying the power far too much )

But the treasurer should not be the one to be the negotiator, so its kinda weird. Will probably invent a title without representation and allow several offices for now, got any suggestions on naming the title? Royal envoy or emissary (not really noble imho), Ambassador of Hungary, Master of relations or Kings voice perhaps?

Im all ears

phonicsmonkey

02-14-2012, 03:59

Mithridate

02-14-2012, 05:19

I'm sure we don't need an official title if the King wants to nominate someone to negotiate with the enemy on his behalf. It's his royal prerogative after all, he can do what he wants with it. ty
Agreed, Ive got a couple own plans but he will point and i shall go.

Is that the position we're in?
No, not really^^ But such an offense would be really foolish to make for the king and Palatine, especially as i see no reason for it.

Nightbringer

02-14-2012, 08:01

You are right, the system is indeed biased and unfair, just as the King likes it to be. (and hey, it was even worse before the Golden Bull) But these are IC rules, so any changes must be made IC. You will just have to find a way to persuade the king to relinquish some of his power.

I suggest a change in the laws of the realm, this is mostly for Cecil since he is da boss ofter all but still.

Currently the Palatine is the "judge of legal matters among the nobility" yet the laws of the realm says that the Palatine cannot try any noble without the kings permission. This should be change to "cannot pass judgement over" so the Palatine can solve a "case" and find an appropriate "solution" or "punishment" for it. This would save a lot of trouble whilst the king still holds the intended power, he will always have the last word and be able to overrule anything.

Btw it looks like i will get two additional titles, alternatively rework the Privy seal and ill relenquish my current one. (treasury, Palatine and "diplomat(privy)")

phonicsmonkey

02-16-2012, 02:22

I think we should rename this game 'Nembols of the Danube'

Does anyone know what nembol means?

phonicsmonkey

02-16-2012, 09:16

Zim, three units of Magyar Cav that I recruited at Kassa and am paying the upkeep for are trapped there in the siege. When you relieve the siege, if any of them remain could you please send them my way?

Zim

02-16-2012, 17:33

Sure thing, as long as I survive the siege. :clown:

Mithridate

02-16-2012, 20:18

Vata and Bokony could west to help you Zim, but its far in the open against nasty heavy HA while ive got mostly melee inf (risky!)
I would hold position with most and head south with rest and recruits. Will post something in the courtroom

The war goes on :)

Zim

02-17-2012, 23:11

Er...my liege, I'm afraid only a single unit of now hardened veterans (silver chevron I believe) has survived, I have sent them your way.

My upkeep went down to a couple hundred a turn from this battle so I have that going for me now. :clown: Actually making decent money again

General's bodyguard is down to just my character. Forgot about the buffs AI general's units get in SS...

Zim, three units of Magyar Cav that I recruited at Kassa and am paying the upkeep for are trapped there in the siege. When you relieve the siege, if any of them remain could you please send them my way?

phonicsmonkey

02-18-2012, 01:55

Er...my liege, I'm afraid only a single unit of now hardened veterans (silver chevron I believe) has survived, I have sent them your way.

My upkeep went down to a couple hundred a turn from this battle so I have that going for me now. :clown: Actually making decent money again

General's bodyguard is down to just my character. Forgot about the buffs AI general's units get in SS...

No worries mate, glad they were useful to you. Let me know when you have recruitment slots free and I'll raise some more.

NB, could you pls adjust my upkeep?

Nightbringer

02-18-2012, 05:58

No worries mate, glad they were useful to you. Let me know when you have recruitment slots free and I'll raise some more.

NB, could you pls adjust my upkeep?

Sure, can you send me a pm about it so I remember though

phonicsmonkey

02-26-2012, 00:11

I notice Mithri's character now styles himself a Duke. Did I miss a memo? I thought Myth demoted us all to Count (or Graf)

Should my character be a Duke too? Or did something happen IC?

Nightbringer

02-26-2012, 00:13

I notice Mithri's character now styles himself a Duke. Did I miss a memo? I thought Myth demoted us all to Count (or Graf)

Should my character be a Duke too? Or did something happen IC?

I'm not sure, but if he is a Duke this should be announced in the Courtroom, as should the recent title switches.

Nightbringer

02-28-2012, 04:20

House Stark

You haven't posted in a while, are you still interested in this game?

If not, Vata a Kacsics nembol will revert to my control.

Also, Ignoramus and Quirl, it has been a few rounds since you played your turn, are you still involved in this game? :)

Mithridate

02-28-2012, 07:33

I notice Mithri's character now styles himself a Duke. Did I miss a memo? I thought Myth demoted us all to Count (or Graf)

Should my character be a Duke too? Or did something happen IC?
notthing has happened, an overlook on my part since the ancillary says "duke of Brasov"

ill stick to lord and change the old :)

Nightbringer

02-28-2012, 07:37

notthing has happened, an overlook on my part since the ancillary says "duke of Brasov"

ill stick to lord and change the old :)

Okay, no problem then. Althoghu that might have been the start of quite an interesting scandal. :)

Quirl

02-29-2012, 03:30

Cecil XIX

02-29-2012, 22:48

Sorry to hear that Quirl, I hope things work out.

phonicsmonkey

02-29-2012, 23:44

Nightbringer

03-01-2012, 01:14

Sorry for my lack of activity. I've been having trouble with my install and have been hesitate to officially resign. I'll pick up the pace on this issue, but may have to resign for now. Really sorry for the inconvenience. This was an unforeseen issue. :\

I'm very sorry to hear that. Hopefully you will get things worked out, and maybe then you will be able to join the game!

You can also participate in a purely roleplaying fashion as an unrepresented character if you want. You could even roleplay some characters from other nations for me if you want, just let me know.

Nightbringer

03-02-2012, 20:04

Cecil XIX, Zim, Ignoramus, The King
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHN6AViJAvI

Don't mean to bug you, but things have really been dying down of late. If you are losing interest in the game, are there any suggestions you could make on how to make things more interesting?

Mithridate

03-02-2012, 21:15

Getting lonely here, seems like im mostly alone with all my posts :)

part from a very capable monkey, and dedicated Nightbrigner!

phonicsmonkey

03-02-2012, 22:48

Mithridate, nice battle report. You reminded me I owe one...

Nightbringer, don't worry I'm sure it's just RL that's keeping the guys away. They'll be back

Quirl

03-03-2012, 02:21

Roleplaying's an option. :)

Zim

03-03-2012, 16:26

Sorry, it's just tough not even being able to look at the saves. I think I've found all my discs. Assuming they aren't too scratched up I'll be able to install within the day.

Phonics will be queueing som units for me. I should be able to do the turn report tomorrow myself if that's ok.

Cecil XIX, Zim, Ignoramus, The King
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHN6AViJAvI

Don't mean to bug you, but things have really been dying down of late. If you are losing interest in the game, are there any suggestions you could make on how to make things more interesting?