Faction #1 The Roman Republic

[ahowl11]

The Roman Republic

3466
3467

Cities:
Rome
Arretium
Capua

Rome
At this time, Rome was a powerful state in Italy. It had been founded in 753 BC when many villages had combined into one large town, which was established on seven hills. They were convicts, low life's, shepherds, farmers, and fisherman. In it's earliest days, it was ruled by Kings, the most noteworthy of them being Etruscans. In 509 BC the last Etruscan King was expelled and a Republic was founded. The republic had expanded against the Sabines, Aequi, and Volsci in it's early years, but in the early fourth century, the city of Rome was sacked by Celts. It took awhile for the city to recover, and they were constantly at war with various Italian Peoples. They had succeeded in defeating the Latins, Marsi, Samnites, and Etruscans as they expanded north, east, and south. After the Third Samnite War ended in 290 BC, and the defeat of the Celtic tribes, Umbrians and Etruscans in the 280's BC, Rome was at it's greatest extent from Eturia all the way into Samnium.

The city of course, is the capital of the Romans. It should be the largest city in size and population.

Arretium
Originally founded by the city of Clusium, Arretium was a major city of the Etruscans. It is thought that Arretium was one of the twelve most important Etruscan cities. After it became independent, Arretium established a niche for bronze working, trading with the Romans and Celts. Due to civil strife and unrest, Arretium went over peacefully to Rome around 311 BC.

Arretium should be a large town with many economic benefits.

Capua
Capua was a city in Campania. It was founded by Greeks, but developed an Greco-Etruscan culture due to the Greek sphere of influence. It supported the Latins in their agianst Rome in 338 BC and after the wars cam under the control of the Romans. Capua was known for it's metalworking abilities and was known as the second largest city in Italy


Army

During the time frame of our mod there were two significant reforms. The Polybian and Marian. In 280 BC, Rome deployed the Camillan Army which consisted of these units:

The Camillan Army

Leves

Leves were of a poorer and younger class of Roman citizens. They were skirmishers who would harass the enemy lines until they were out of ammunition or were driven off. They were armed only with the clothes on their backs, some javelins and a spear to engage in melee.

*Europa Barbarorum has them using a shield, and also says they wore helmets, which I believe is not true since they were very poor.

How Leves should be made:
Peasant model and texture, give him javelins and a spear, instead of a dagger. Leves, will be slightly weaker than most Peltasts and Skirmishers.

Hastati

Hastati were the first battle line in the Camillan and Polybian armies. Hastati derived their name from the word Hastae, which means short spear. They would be the first to engage in melee, and would then retire to let the Principes fight.

Hastati were armed with a six foot long spear, the scutum shield, a helmet which had three feathers attached to it, a greave on their shield side leg and a breastplate for protection.

*A few sources claim that Hastati carried pilae and short swords into battle during the Camillan Era. This is not true as both of those weapons and fighting styles were adapted from the Iberian troops between the first and second Punic Wars.

How Hastati should be made:
Hastati model and texture. Get rid of plume on helmet and replace with feathers, get rid of pila and short swords and replace with spears. Put a greave on their shield side leg.
They will still be a very dependable unit for the Camillan Roman Army

Principes

Principes were of a wealthier class of citizens. They also had more experience and were older than the Hastati. The Principes would form the second battle line and relieve the Hastati, when the Hastati withdrew. The Principes will be armed and armored very similarly to the Hastati except the have chain mail instead of a breast plate.

How Principes should be made:
Principes model and texture. Get rid of plume on helmet and replace with feathers, get rid of pila and short swords and replace with spears. Put a greave on their shield side leg.
The Principes will make up the main force of a Camillan Army.

Triarii

The Triarii are the wealthiest and most experienced soldiers in the Camillan Army. They fought in the hoplite fashion and were the backbone of the Camillan Army. They wore a breastplate that covered the entire torso, an Etrusco-Corinthian Helmet and a greave on their shield side leg. They also carried a spear, a short sword and a large round shield similar to what hoplites used.

*Another source said that their helemts were similar to Hastati and Principes but i felt the Etrusco-Corinthian Helmet would look better.

How Triarii should be made:
Triarii model, new head containing Etrusco-Corinthian helmet, shield and breastplate of Armored Hoplites, a sword to fight with when out of the Phalanx formation, and a greave on the shield side leg.
The Triarii will be the elite unit of Roman armies

Rorarii

Rorarii served as reserves in the Camillan Army. They were useful for support when a flank began to waver and were mainly used as reserves. The Rorarii carried a scutum, hasta spear, wore no armor except for a helmet.

How Rorarii will be made:
Town Watch Unit without Cape

Accensi

Accensi were the poorest and weakest of all citizen soldiers within the Camillan army. They were in the back of the line together with the Rorarii. They wore the colthes on their backs and carried slings.

How Accensi will be made:
Roman Slinger model and texture
No shield
Will be weaker than other slinger units

Equites

Equites were the cavalry of the Camillan Army. They were medium cavalry who maintained the fanks. Equites were the wealthiest citizen soldiers of the army, hence why they get to ride on horseback. They wore a bronze cuirass, and a crested helmet with a plume. Also they carry a lance, round shield and a short sword.

How Equites will be made:
Equites Model and texture, new head with crested helmet, cuirass, cape
Will be much more stronger than vanilla equites

Polybian Army

After some difficulties with the previous army, the Romans decided to adapt to a more flexible army. These changes happened sometime in between the first and second punic wars.

Changes
Instead of Rorarii, Accensi, and Leves, only one unit, Velites.
Hastati and Principes have Pilae and Gladius
Triarii lose phalanx formation and are more heavy spearmen than hoplites
Equites are more flexible
Funditores

Velites

Velites were essentially the Leves, Rorarii, and Accensi combined. The Velites would play the role of the Leves by rushing out to throw javelins at the enemy and then rushing back behind the lines for safety. They will also carry a dagger and a round shield for protection.

How Velites will be made:
Same as vanilla except they need a bigger shield.
Will be equivalent to Peltasts.

Hastati/Principes

Will look the same but have two Pilae to throw and use the gladius as their melee weapon, and have more chain mail armor.

Triarii
Will look very similar to the Triarii in vanilla, keeps the Etrusco-Corinthian Helmet, but substitutes chain mail armor for the breastplate, and has a scutum instead of a hoplite shield. Also will fight as more flexible spearmen than in a phalanx

Equites
Will have chain mail instead of breast plate

Funditores

Funditores were Slingers used by the Romans, they were not used extensively but they were used and were effective.

How Funditores will be made:
Accensi unit but with shield

[Ave_Oz]

Roman Republic

I propose the use of vanilla's senate faction symbol. I'm mostly against the red one of DTW since back then wearing purple didn't meant you were gay and in fact it was a color meaning a high social status and off course, wealthiness. The use of red color for a roman faction is consequence of hollywood movies (much like Coke's fault we hear "Santa Claus" and think of a big & old fat man wearing red).

that's all i have to say since history & research it's not my field of expertise.

[Hamata]

I say we have named and numbured legions for rome here is a list of roman legions


Legio I Germanica (or Augusta)
Legio I Adiutrix
Legio I Italica
Legio I Macriana Liberatrix
Legio I Minervia
Legio I Parthica could be used for apropatine campaign

Founded in 197 AD by Septimius Severus for his campaign against the Parthians
http://www.unrv.com/military/legions.php list for more and source :book2:

[ahowl11]

@Ozman

I actually like the red color for Rome because to me it just resembles who they are.

[TwoKnives]

Roman territory in 281-280 BC.

http://jskonrad.com/images/west_med_spheres_280bc_beveled-6%20copy.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/216/490153449_8809973e7a.jpg.

[TwoKnives]

I would like to point out a thing for the pre-marian roman army. The vanilla representation was correct, but the roman army was like that by the Second Punic war. Before that there were no velites, their place was held by three different types of units, the rorarii, the accensi and the leves. The leves had the same function as the velites. The rorarii were inexperienced fighters that assisted the triarii. The accensi were experienced, but unreliable fighters that also supported the triarii. My point is that, since the velites were introduced during the Second Punic war after Scipio's reforms (and the mod starts in 280 BC), to have them in the game accurately we should simulate these reforms. However Marian reforms were much more important than those of Scipio, and we can't have two reforms in 1 faction.

Now we are left with two options:

a) Remove the Velites, thing which might lower the quality of the game-play.
b) Add them, but lowering the historical accuracy.

If somebody has an idea, please speak up. If nobody does, I'd go for option a, simply because it MIGHT lower the quality of the game-play, and only for the fans that love this unit, while option b WILL lower the historical accuracy and has anybody ever thought what people might say about it after the mod is released? Ok, i know, it's only 1 unit, but some people love to rant and criticize. So what do we do?

[Ludens]

I propose the use of vanilla's senate faction symbol. I'm mostly against the red one of DTW since back then wearing purple didn't meant you were gay and in fact it was a color meaning a high social status and off course, wealthiness.

This is very true, but purple wasn't associated with the Romans either. IIRC only important senators were allowed to have a purple border or strip on their toga. Purple dye was outrageously expensive. If the colour was associated with anyone, it would have been the Carthaginians and other Phoenician cities. They were either the dominant or only producer of purple dye. In fact the word Phoenician (and Punic) may be derived from the Greek word for purple.

[TwoKnives]

This is very true, but purple wasn't associated with the Romans either. IIRC only important senators were allowed to have a purple border or strip on their toga. Purple dye was outrageously expensive. If the colour was associated with anyone, it would have been the Carthaginians and other Phoenician cities. They were either the dominant or only producer of purple dye. In fact the word Phoenician (and Punic) may be derived from the Greek word for purple.

Yes Phoenicians got the purple dye for some kind of sea snails or some other mollusks. So red it is for the Romans, It suits them more for some reason.

[Skull]

So red it is for the Romans, It suits them more for some reason.

I read that Red is the color of Mars,so red suits them VERY well...

[hameleona]

over 75% of the war-gods have Red as their color ;)

[ahowl11]

why couldnt we have two reforms? the first one wouldnt be that major

[Skull]

why couldnt we have two reforms? the first one wouldnt be that major

I think it ain't possible...

@hameleona - I didn't know!:)

[TwoKnives]

I think it ain't possible...

Whatever he said. Two reforms aren't possible as far as I know so, it leaves us with the two options I pointed out.

[Asgaroth]

Do we have senate symbol in rer color,or can I make it red?

[ahowl11]

We have it in Red color. How about we make Velites available, but just put them in a higher tier for the buildings? That way when you get to the higher tier as the Romans, more than likely you will be fighting Carthage

[TwoKnives]

I thought about, that, but if they would be high tier, they should be really strong. Otherwise nobody would recruit them. Besides having them as a high tier unit would not make the leves, rorarii and accensi disappear. It wouldn't really matter if they wouldn't be added at all, basically they are leves with more numbers and different name.

[ahowl11]

I don't understand how there is not another reform available.. I never heard that you couldn't have more than 1

[Ave_Oz]

It is "sort of" possible, remember that EB uses 1-2 or even 3 (if i remember right) for some factions, but they are not the vanilla reforms; it is some sort of script that acts like a reform. My suggestion is NOT doing that, if we want to keep the vanilla feeling we should avoid unnecesary scripts that will slow down the perfomance of the game (enough we have using the RSII textures and environments). And abput the color well, i didn't meant exactly vanilla's senate color, that's grape-purple (sort of), the color i meant was "tyrian purple" wich resembles a lot a red (darker than vanilla); but i'm ok using red as the faction color :)

[TwoKnives]

It is "sort of" possible, remember that EB uses 1-2 or even 3 (if i remember right) for some factions, but they are not the vanilla reforms; it is some sort of script that acts like a reform. My suggestion is NOT doing that, if we want to keep the vanilla feeling we should avoid unnecesary scripts that will slow down the perfomance of the game (enough we have using the RSII textures and environments)

Precisely. So I say we don't add them at all and get moving with the work. We could add them, but lowering the historical accuracy. Also we could replace the purple in the SPQR banner with red. Also I need a final and decisive answer for the "velites issue" by you guys, especially ahowl11, so I can move on and do the darn unit roster.

[Skull]

I think we shoud keep them.

[hameleona]

You CAN'T have two reforms, but you can simulate another reform - just like EB did. But it's hard work for nothing really nice. Just leave the velites in a higher tire and there you go ;)

[Ave_Oz]

You CAN'T have two reforms, but you can simulate another reform - just like EB did. But it's hard work for nothing really nice. Just leave the velites in a higher tire and there you go ;)

Exactly

[Asgaroth]

ou CAN'T have two reforms, but you can simulate another reform - just like EB did. But it's hard work for nothing really nice. Just leave the velites in a higher tire and there you go ;)

I agree...We are losing time for nothing that way.We choose which is the most important reform of the faction and leave it-in this case that is the Marian reforms are way important the other.


So the symbol we already have done.The culture will be obviously roman...


And here you are a little funny page for the resources,better to say trade roots of that time.

http://resourcesforhistory.com/map.htm

To see the trade roots click on the little ship beneath.

[Asgaroth]

I think that here are ALL THE CITIES you can get FOR OUR MAP :

It states how much citizens the cities had at that time(for some cities) as well as who were they owned by and what was the city famous for.For some cities there are even the resources and for each city there is aregion it belonged to.

So these will shorten off our time for searching te cities.The only thing you have to do is scroll down or up.

http://books.google.hr/books?id=v9YBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA244&lpg=PA244&dq=ancient+arminium+city&source=bl&ots=XSytVkqqt0&sig=-jp2h171xnO8rN4M89xMN9mse1o&hl=hr&sa=X&ei=F0EbT4POEY6g-waa2JWrCg&ved=0CFAQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=ancient%20arminium%20city&f=false

[Ave_Oz]

I think that here are ALL THE CITIES you can get FOR OUR MAP :

It states how much citizens the cities had at that time(for some cities) as well as who were they owned by and what was the city famous for.For some cities there are even the resources and for each city there is aregion it belonged to.

So these will shorten off our time for searching te cities.The only thing you have to do is scroll down or up.

http://books.google.hr/books?id=v9YBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA244&lpg=PA244&dq=ancient+arminium+city&source=bl&ots=XSytVkqqt0&sig=-jp2h171xnO8rN4M89xMN9mse1o&hl=hr&sa=X&ei=F0EbT4POEY6g-waa2JWrCg&ved=0CFAQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=ancient%20arminium%20city&f=false

You gotta be kidding me, you're the researcher man, you're supposed to do the scroll over and then give me the results of research, not just look out for info for me (in that case i'll use my sources wich i think are not much in the same interest as yours)

[ahowl11]

UPDATED OP

There is my first work for the Romans. We still have a lot to do. I would like to see some quality stuff from you guys, this is where it all starts for us. Research is vital!

Here is what I will do in my next Roman Research Post:
Marian Army
Socii/Allied Units
Auxillia Units
Recruitment systems

I guess while I'm working on that we can assign the Romans the cities on our map, and start making the units. I can ask around to see how I can script in the Polybian reform.
By the way when creating the units, do not worry about UI's, just worry about the models and such. We have a UI maker now in Lanjane. He made units for THS and created UI's for the Persian Invasion mod.

References
Rome And Her Enemies; An Empire Created and Destroyed By War -Osprey Publishers
A Guide To the Ancient World -Michael Grant
The Cultural Atlas of The Roman World
www.wikipedia.org
www.europabarbarorum.com
www.twc.net
roman-empire.net

I know those are not great resources, but for having limited time and not many resources or money, I made due. Wikipedia is not bad at all, especially if the article provides references. Also yes I believe EB is a great source for learning about history. I also look at the other mods and see their views on certain factions and units, combine them and then come up with my overall opinion. I learned a lot in five hours of research. Now I will focus on other things with the mod and continue my research with the Romans when I can. I want to see you guys actually researching, give me your thoughts on what you have found and let's put our heads together.

[hameleona]

EB is a good source, not a great one.
Love the banners.

Asgaroth, when do we start?

PS: ahowl, i can tell you that the reforms script is just to heavy. It's a grave process, honestly, so why don't you think about leaving it vanilla.

[Asgaroth]

You gotta be kidding me

No.I study medicine and if I have time I research heavyly for something...Now at my University I have Chemistry and Physics which aren't easy,so I don't have much time to research...

That thing that I posted was for TWOKNIVES AND AHOWL11,so they can decide which cities need more research and which cities would fitt in the game.



I know those are not great resources, but for having limited time and not many resources or money, I made due. Wikipedia is not bad at all, especially if the article provides references.

The sources are great...And I agree about wikipedia.You can find many mistakes on her,but still she is not that bad at all,as people spitt on her.

Good work ahowl.For editing the first post.it looks great and we look much serious as a team now and in this way that we are working it is much easyer to work.



Love the banners.


The banners and the symbols are awesome...

AHOWL11-I can make other faction symbols if you want,but when e get to them ?...They would be vanilla of course,not like the ones me and the Spartan warlord have made.



Asgaroth, when do we start?

Haven't you given up from us ?




Polybian Army


No archers for the romans ?

[hameleona]

Nah, i can allways make a few units for you, people. ;)

Just don't expect 3+ units per day as when we started. ;)

[TwoKnives]

@ahowl11

We can implement the Polybian army through a reform, but it will slow the game down. The banners are good though, I like them very much.

@Asgaroth

Rome's cities in the beginning of the game:

Rome
Arretium
Capua
Ravenna
Beneventum

Also, Romans had no archers, except for the auxiliary or sometimes mercenary ones.

[Asgaroth]

Rome's cities in the beginning of the game

Ahowl 11 is choosing the cities-Rome will have three cities at the start-look at the first post.


Also, Romans had no archers, except for the auxiliary or sometimes mercenary ones.

After the Marian reforms I am quite sure that they did.

[TwoKnives]

I meant the pre-marian army. As for the cities, i was making a suggestion.

[Asgaroth]

I meant the pre-marian army. As for the cities, i was making a suggestion.

Ok then.Thank you and great...

I just wanted to say that I am not the one that decides what cities are for who.

[hameleona]

https://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3433/leavesi.jpg
By hameleona_666 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/hameleona_666) at 2012-01-22
Leves

PS: I would love someone to define poor. A shield is not that hard to make.

[Ave_Oz]

No.

:laugh4: my bad:clown:

[TwoKnives]

And there comes hameleona with another simple, but realistic and nice unit. Good job!!

[Skull]

@hameleona -Fantastic...:)

[ahowl11]

Great Work Hameleona, that unit looks perfect. Well, based on what I read, the Leves and Accensi were the poorest class of citizens, and in the Camillan Army, the soldiers had to supply their own weapons and armor, so I do not believe the Leves could have afforded a shield. Plus I think it looks better
@Hameleona, when all the Romans are finished can you upload them for me to download? Thanks, and by the way as you can see I have given instructions on each unit. If you need visuals, I can look for them as well.

[Asgaroth]

So I have made the funditores...Here you are ahowl11.You can download them.

What is changed ?

I have made the shield to look a little better-it is wooden now,at least it looks wooden and I have placed the symbol of Roman god Saturnus.


If somebody could download them and make a screen it would be nice,as I do not know how,thanks!

[ahowl11]

I talked to Quinn Inuit from TWC about the reforms, here is his response:


It won't weigh down the game, but it can be difficult. I recommend looking to the EB traits and script as a guide.

One key question is how you wish to cause the reform to occur. That controls the difficulty. I chose to enable that reform by requiring Rome to conquer some Gallic provinces. Anything involving traits is going to be much more complex.

ExRM v4.0 will have about ten reforms for various factions, with two getting two. That's rather more complex than I wanted it to be, but we wanted to make certain things happen and that was the only way.


I believe once the Romans have captured all of Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica, and Malta that the reform would occur. Now I must find out how to do that. I will ask him and update this post once I find out how to do it

[Hamata]

i've previously made a faction symbol for the romans that looks like this3474 it's kinda the same thing as vanila but a more stylised eagel also
it was one of my first faction
symbols ever made i could also make the banners too if needed

[Asgaroth]

i
've previously made a faction symbol for the romans that looks like thisClick image for larger version. Name: roman.jpg Views: 0 Size: 15.1 KB ID: 3474 it's kinda the same thing as vanila but a more stylised eagel also
it was one of my first faction
symbols ever made i could also make the banners too if needed

The Spartan Warlord and me have already made the symbols for all factions but they weren't vanilla,they were similar to the one you have made...So I think that we will make vanilla symbols.

[ahowl11]

The Symbol on the opening post is the one that we will be using

[hameleona]

I suggest you rethink the feathers - if i put two feathers (as it should be) they won't be easy to be seen (there is a broad angle that they aren't visible). That is the reason the samnite warrior in RTR has three feathers.

[ahowl11]

Three feathers is fine, I don't care how many he has but the Hastati and Principes need feathers

[hameleona]

You are screwing the shiledwall hoplites and going back to vanilla phalanx?

[ahowl11]

No? Why would I do that? I just said that they fought in the phalanx formation

[hameleona]

cuz if you use shieldWall the hoplites will charge with swords. No way around that. So if you want them to fight with spears - no need of secondary weapon.

[hameleona]

Ok, i have crubled to a wall. Cresned helmed?

Edit: Don't bother... just see the other thread...

[Lord President of Gallifrey]

For the Livy (also called Camillian) and Polybian Armies: (Sources, Roman Army at Time of Punic War by Nic Fields, and a bit of Book 10 of Livy's Ab Urbe Condita

There was an argument way back at the start of this mod for whether we were for or against this idea; ultimately it was decided that it would be better if we didn't have these reforms.(I was for it, but now I am opposed to it). One of the arguments by Primo was that the Romans already have too many units,

Furthermore, the changes from the Livy Army was not just the addition of velites, and the removal of the classes such as Leves and Rorarii. The equipment of each of the Hastati, Principes, and Triarii probably changed too, and the organization of each men (the amount of each men in a maniple).

We could partially simulate this through having the Polybian units in a higher tier of barracks than the Livy units. The Hastati, Principes, and maybe the Triarii could also be given automatic weapon and defence upgrades when you recruit them from the higher tiers of barracks. (like in BI)

However,it would not be too ahistorical if we left them out. The Roman army was always evolving, and I believe the Polybian Army started in early 290 BC, with the pila being used in the Third Samnite War, all the way to the Velites being used in the Second Punic War.

Edit: As for the Funditores, they were just auxlliary slingers, such as those from the Balearic islands. There is not need to make a new unit for them

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0017:text=intro:chapter=2&highlight=funditores

Caesar nowhere gives the number of his auxilia (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=auxilia&la=la&can=auxilia1&prior=peditum), and it was doubtless as various as that of his cavalry. They were the light-armed soldiers (milites (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=milites&la=la&can=milites0&prior=auxilia) levis (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=levis&la=la&can=levis0&prior=milites) armaturae (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=armaturae&la=la&can=armaturae0&prior=levis)), the archers (sagittarii (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=sagittarii&la=la&can=sagittarii0&prior=armaturae)), and the slingers (funditores (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=funditores&la=la&can=funditores0&prior=sagittarii)). See Figs. 30 (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/fig.030), 104 (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/fig.104), 105 (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/fig.105), 115 (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/fig.115). The best slingers came from the Balearic Islands, the best archers from Crete and Numidia.

[ahowl11]

Well its not a big deal really, here is what Quinn Inuit said regarding the reforms:


That's a pretty easy one. Here's part of our script. I recommend just changing some of the names for your own use. I can't remember if this has been tested, though...

Code:

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
; 6.0 --Reforms-- ;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;;; 6A - Roman Reforms ;;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Roman Reforms:
;Roman_Reforms 0 = Camillan
;Roman_Reforms 1 = Polybian
;Roman_Reforms 2 = Marian
;Roman_Reforms 3 = They're done.

declare_counter Roman_Reforms

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;;; Polybian Reforms ;;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

declare_counter PolybianCondition

monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType romans_julii
and I_TurnNumber > 99

; Player gets the reforms after 200 B.C. regardless.
if I_TurnNumber > 239
and I_LocalFaction romans_julii
set_counter Roman_Reforms 1
set_counter PolybianReformsMessage 1
terminate_monitor
end_if

; AI reforms automatically after 238BC
if I_TurnNumber > 168
and not I_LocalFaction romans_julii
set_counter Roman_Reforms 1
terminate_monitor
end_if

; Player-triggered reforms
if I_SettlementOwner Mediolanium = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Patavium = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Bononia = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Iuvavum = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Moudon = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Lugdunum = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Narbo_Martius = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Toletum = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Numantia = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Caesada = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Obila = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

;Check if Reforms Conditions are met
if I_CompareCounter PolybianCondition > 3
console_command create_building Rome "Polybian_Gov"
set_counter Roman_Reforms 1
set_counter PolybianReformsMessage 1
terminate_monitor
end_if

;Reset Counters
set_counter PolybianCondition 0

;Cleanup
if I_CompareCounter Roman_Reforms = 2
terminate_monitor
end_if

;Cleanup
if I_CompareCounter Roman_Reforms = 3
terminate_monitor
end_if

end_monitor


So the Romans did not have their own slingers? Less units for them then.

[Asgaroth]

As for the Funditores, they were just auxlliary slingers, such as those from the Balearic islands. There is not need to make a new unit for them.


I did not make a new unit for them.I just changed them to make them better looking and more interesting.

[hameleona]

Recruitment/Government System for the Roman Republic (historical blah-blah-blah way)
hameleonas Edition. Ver. 0.5

(Note 0: All the turns needed to build stuff are given with 4 turns per year script in mind)

(Note 0a: Ok, so i'll try making this as a guide more, than as a table with stuff, so that everyone gets the idea.)

So, you have taken your first city with the armies of the SPQR. And you have to make a decision - what are you going to do with the province.
Well, there are two main ways to do it.

The Assimilation way - make the city a full part of the Roman Republic.
After you have captured a city you'll see the option to build the building "Province Pacification", witch takes just one turn, but gives you +1 bonus to PO (see the end for bonus explanation), but gives you -1 PG. This is the basic building for installing a new government. So you hit End Turn, and on the next turn, the province does not rebel so much, but still does not like you. And you still can't recruit anything, except some useless levy troops (See note 1).

And now you see, that you have a choice between 3 buildings: Assimilation, Subjected State and Allied State. Don't need to tell you, that Assimilation is your choice. Assimilation takes the severe 6 turns to be completed, but keeps the PO bonus from the "Province Pacification" and removes the PG penalty, and gives you full access to the AOR units (depending on the MIC levels) and buildings. Most of you would stop here, but if you want those legions, there is one more step.

After you have assimilated the province, you can build the "Roman Citizenship" building. A dread project, that takes 10 turns to complete, but gives you additional +1 PO, trade bonus 1, law bonus 1, and PG bonus 1. But most importantly gives you the option to recruit legions!

The Subjection Way - make the province one of your puppets.
Ok, so we build the "Province Pacification", then we go for the second building: Subjected State. It takes only 3 turns to build, and gives you trade bonus 2, PG bonus -1 and PO bonus +1. It does not let you build some structures (mostly 4yh and 5th level health and pop. buildings), but lets you recruit most of the AOR units in the province (no elite ones). Cheap and fast way to get troops, but you'll always need a strong garrison, cuz of the low public order.

The Last Way... - make them allies.
Ok, so we build the "Province Pacification", then we go for the second building: Allied State. It takes only 1 turn to build, gives you trade bonus 2, PO bonus 5 and PG bonus -5. It gives you All the AOR troops, but does not give you many building options in the trade sphere.

Note 1: Every province MUST have a generic troop tire 0, so that we can run away from the rebellion CTD. This can be adjusted in time.
Bonuses: PO - Public Order, PG - population Growth. All the numbers are game-dependent. Bonus 1 gives you the lowest possible bonus of that type.


Recruitment/Government System for the Roman Republic (Simple Way)
hameleonas Edition. Ver. 1.0

The recruitment of AOR troops happens from a new building complex with five levels (called Extraordianrii recruitment center). Nothing more. Simple as that.

So, witch one will it be?

[ahowl11]

First one for sure. It is an excellent idea, and many people will enjoy having the options. Adds strategy.

[hameleona]

Well, it's your mod.

Witch way will we use for recruitment dependencies - RTR (with the bug) or EB (with the thousands of lines of code and MIC's re-building)?

[Asgaroth]

Everything what you two decide by me is ok,but I do not like the fact that you have to wait 10 + turns to get the province under your control...

That is one of the main reasons why I hated RTR,because that killed the gamplay...So I suggest we don't do any building or process that takes 10 + turns to get the region under your control.

And remember,we are not aming for realism,just for the balance between gameplay and historical acurracy.

[ahowl11]

well i like asgaroth's point.. the first idea is good but maybe not so many turns to create it?

[Asgaroth]

but maybe not so many turns to create it?
At least that is easy to change-just change the time that takes the buildings to create....


RTR had three phases of bringing the province under full control-

But it was like this(and it so bad):

The phases are represented as buildings of course

1 phase-Brings you some public orde but no units can be recruited,not a single one(2 turns)
2 phase-brings you more public order and you can train one type of a unit-some simple unit like barbarian warband(4 turns)
3 phase-Brings you even more public order and income and you can now train tree type of units now and the are all native or better to say auxilia-slinger unit,spear unit,skirmish uni(javelin or peltast)...(8 turns)

After all that you can build barracks which take 8 turns to build and only after this can you recruit your roman units...

SO basicly you have to wait 14 turns to bring the settlement or better to say 22 turns until you can recruit your first roman unit...

This sucks so hard...

I would only like 6 turns maximum for everything together instead of 22 turns.

[Magneto]

well i like asgaroth's point.. the first idea is good but maybe not so many turns to create it?

How about that: Every "Building" or political decision will take 1 turn to complete, BUT we script consequences of these desicions, like stronger/weaker trade for a few turns, happier/unhappier population ... that would on one hand still allow fast gameplay, but on the other hand we would add a certain realism.

[Asgaroth]

How about that: Every "Building" or political decision will take 1 turn to complete, BUT we script consequences of these desicions, like stronger/weaker trade for a few turns, happier/unhappier population ... that would on one hand still allow fast gameplay, but on the other hand we would add a certain realism.


I like the idea,we need to see what ahowl has to say but is that hard to do ?

[ahowl11]

I like the idea as well

[Magneto]

I like the idea,we need to see what ahowl has to say but is that hard to do ?

I am not sure. It should be possible using this command:

SettlementBuildingFinished xyz

I just don´t know if you can test this in every city separately - otherwise you would have the consequences globaly. If you can, than it would be a matter of copy&paste the quite easy script for every city and every faction. Maybe 2h of work all in all.

Edit: Just read a bit and it is possible.

[Asgaroth]

Ok but we need to make thing by thing as ahowl said we would do.You weren't here so I will explain in short notes :

As you can see we are doing faction by faction-everything about it :

So we have done all units for The Roman Republic(Well most of them as I have to make the triarii and we are done with that)-Hameleona and Ahowl are still discussing the recruitment of units.
Next we need to make all the cities in the Italy area and give them to rome.

So if you can first check if the units work,please.We need to go step by step so we don't start 2000 things at once and finish doing none.We have lost half of a year and we didn't do anything.After that if you have time or will check this what we were talking about...Thanks.

[Magneto]

Ok but we need to make thing by thing as ahowl said we would do.You weren't here so I will explain in short notes :

As you can see we are doing faction by faction-everything about it :

So we have done all units for The Roman Republic(Well most of them as I have to make the triarii and we are done with that)-Hameleona and Ahowl are still discussing the recruitment of units.
Next we need to make all the cities in the Italy area and give them to rome.

So if you can first check if the units work,please.We need to go step by step so we don't start 2000 things at once and finish doing none.We have lost half of a year and we didn't do anything.After that if you have time or will check this what we were talking about...Thanks.

I´m checking right now, no worrys (multitasking :)) I didn´t really start it, the 1 minute research is ok.

[Asgaroth]

I´m checking right now, no worrys (multitasking :)) I didn´t really start it, the 1 minute research is ok.


Thanks friend...

In this way we are sure that we have completed something...

[Lord President of Gallifrey]

I'm actually against having a government building (I'm against half the stuff in this mod but whatever)

But if we do, make the build times short 1-2 turns (like Magneto said).

However, a question to Ahowl: Are we going to use scripting? If we do, are we going to keep it to a minimum?

[ahowl11]

depends, we will have to cross that bridge when we get there

[hameleona]

How about that: Every "Building" or political decision will take 1 turn to complete, BUT we script consequences of these desicions, like stronger/weaker trade for a few turns, happier/unhappier population ... that would on one hand still allow fast gameplay, but on the other hand we would add a certain realism.

You can do such a script? I love the idea if you can do it! Oh, man, how much stuff can we do then... I love it. The main reason for the long building time is that - to make you hold the province with a garrison. So, when you have time, we can discuss what can be done, and what can't.

PS: My idea, actually is different from both RTR and EB - they let you first build the government, then the MIC's. I let you build the things separately, so that you DON'T have to wait so long. I'll post some more info later.
PPS: @Ahowl! I need an answer:

Witch way will we use for recruitment dependencies - RTR (with the bug) or EB (with the thousands of lines of code and MIC's re-building)?

[ahowl11]

which is better?

[hameleona]

None. The RTR way is faster and simpler. But you can get a CTD, when you open the building browser, see the building details and right-click on the possible units for recruitment. Hard to make it happen but possible. EB way is very time-consuming to create. And will make the player re-build the MIC (barracks, stables or archery range) to get the reformed units.

[ahowl11]

I guess RTR seems better to me

[hameleona]

I guess it's for all of us - yes, there is a way to ctd the game, but i don't know... i found that function of rtw when i learned about the CTD :lol:

[ahowl11]

well hopefully we find it while testing.. going to go to bed. I pitch tomorrow and we are two weeks away from our first game of the season. Thank God for baseball

[hameleona]

Well, since in Bulgaria is 10 AM i'll just work on the recruitment system for some time. Expect version 0.6 soon :lol:

[hameleona]

After a lot of thinking and doing other stuff, i think i got it.

First we have one basic step:

I. Province Pacification
This is the basic, one turn government. Represents the military government that takes place by the time. Gives a nice bonus to Public Order, but does not do a good thing for the economy - it damages the trade and taxation levels quite hard. Oh, and since "pacification" basically means kill many people till they learn their lesson - it damages the Population Growth. After you build it you must make the choice for future government.

As i have said, the government system will be based on tree choices:

1. Assimilation - Slow, really slow process (This SHOULD be 10+ turns. Historical AND game-play reasons - romans had one major flaw before the marian reforms, and that was the few places that they could recruit legions. This could always be made faster after the reforms. But just take a look at how much time it took to unite Italy.). It should be tree step process - 1. Pacification, 2. Romanization and 3. Roman Citizenship.

Romanization is a not an easy process. It is actually the Long part of the assimilation process, but the building itself does not need to take long for building. Actually it can be just one turn (to represent the start of the process). Not an easy task, so keep in mind that that is what is behind the process. It damages the Public Order (removing the bonus from pacification), and Population Growth (even further than Pacification). But since you just need to remove the people that does not learn their lesson, you can sell them in slavery - so you have a nice trade bonus. Oh, yes, and it gives you all the Basic AOR units (see the end of the post for more).

(exact values for the bonuses are going to be given soon)

After the romanization comes the granting of citizenship. So for now we have spent two turns, and it seems easy. But now we have to invest 6 (i prefer it to be even 8) turns to finish the process. Finishing it gives you all the good stuff you need - roman legionary troops, solid trade bonuses, solid public order bonuses, but it still damages the population growth a little. It stops the recruitment of AOR troops in the settlement - the province is now fully roman one.

2. Military Occupation - i changed the name, but the idea is still the same - you get high bonuses on taxes and trade, but you need a strong garrison. Not only that, but you can not build some buildings above level 4-5. For now i suggest those buildings to be: Temples, Sanatization, Arenas (not shore, but it is an occupied territory after all). It will enable the recruitment of all basic and advanced AOR troops. Installation - 4 turns.

3. Allied State - basically you make them your allies. We all know what happens to roman allies - they have to supply troops and pay taxes, but have a lot of freedom. So except the MIC's, no other military buildings are going to be available (for now we do not have such buildings). Also you can not build any arenas. You will get a stable public order bonus, a low tax/trade bonus and a no population growth penalty. Maybe even a bonus. Do not think that this is so good - high population, causes rebellions, after all. You will have the possibility to recruit all basic, advanced and elite AOR troops. Installation - 2 turns.

Another option for the allies:

It could be on tree stages, each one increasing their loyalty, but decreasing the income. Example:
3.1. Puppet State - you get +6 tax/trade bonus, +2 Population Growth, 0 Public order, and Basic AOR troops.
3.2. Protectorate - you loosen the strings of your allies: you get +4 tax/trade bonus, +2 Population Growth, +2 Public order, and Basic and Advanced AOR troops.
3.3. Allied City State - further giving the locals autonomy: you get +2 tax/trade bonus, +2 Population Growth, +4 Public order, and All AOR troops.

juts an idea. We should see if we can make those buildings free to swap between the close ones (i.e. from 3.1. to 3.2. to 3.3. to 3.2. to 3.1)- from one to another at any given time. It will deepen the game-play A LOT, but it may be hard to create.



AOR unit classes:

Basic - AOR troops from the light infantry types (both melee and ranged). Light cavalry for regions with cavalry tradition. (tire 0 and 1 for melee and ranged unit)
Advanced - AOR troops from the common type in the region - medium and heavy infantry and so on, but no elite units (no units from tire 4&5 for infantry, no units from tire 3&4 for cavalry and ranged units)
Elite - well, the best units in the region. Stuff like noble units, ellite corps and so on. technically and in a historical way of view you can get spartans if you wan to that way. I know that no one likes the idea, but it is logical - they are your loyal allies - they'll send you SEALs if they can.

I think that is the new way i see the government/recruitment system.

[Magneto]

...

This is too complicated. I would propose something simpler:

We make the barracks now different buildings for every culture, i.e. you can´t upgrade an barbarian barrack with a +1 leveled roman one.

I think I am going to explain it with an example:

We now have a gallic barrack. It can recruit all units of the barbarians. Now we take the city it is located at with Rome.

Rome has now two choices:

1) Keep the barrack. Rome can now recruit AOR Units (depending on the level of the barrack, of course). It CAN´T upgrade the barrack thus this way wouldn´t be advisable if it is just a lvl. 1 barrack.

A Gallic Barrack gives a happiness boost in the city for every faction but the barbarians. This simulates the People´s Happiness about keeping their own goverment. Other bonuses/penaltys can be added, too.

2) Destroy the barracks and build roman ones. This would result in a Happiness/Growth penalty till a certain level of the barracks are reached (like the 3., but that can also be discussed). This would simulate the assimilation part. AOR Units either can´t be recruited, or just the weaker ones. Building high level barracks takes a long time, which also correctly portrays history.

[Skull]

@Magneto - I agree.
We shoud NOT GET TOO DAMN COMPICATED ABOUT THIS,shoud not this mod be diffirent from the others,just becose it's suppose to be vannila?

[Asgaroth]

1. Pacification, 2. Romanization and 3. Roman Citizenship.


Nice and historical stages of ocuppation-we should use this three names for the stages.


And in global a nice system,but again I have to say that is tooo many turns until you can build your own roman troops and again it kills the game...

An Primo's advice is also nice but I think this could be good and symple :


So you have three stages of occupation,lets call them like hameleona did because they sound the bast like that.They are all represented by buildings called by hameleona's names and the building could look like this.

Town-/
Large town-Pacification-enables you to build the bulidng called pacification(it takes you 1 turn to build it-some AOR units are able to recruit)
Minor city-Romanization-(It takes you 2 turns to build-enables you to build most AOR units and here you can start building roman unit buildings like archery range,stables,barracks)
Large City-Roman Citizenship-(it takes you 2 turns to build-enables you all AoR units and higher rank buildings for higher rank roman units.)
Huge city-enables you the best barracks,archery ranges and stables.



But when I think I would rather leave it vanilla because it is the bast for gameplay...I would just make auxilia troops for the romans and I would enable merecenary units of different sorts for all factions...


It is your will guys and your chice.I just don't like the fact of having more AOR units in Roman army then the romans themselves,at least that they wear roman armore a weapons like the auxilia.

[TwoKnives]

I vote for Asgaroth's idea. Not too simple, but not complicated either.

[Asgaroth]

I vote for Asgaroth's idea. Not too simple, but not complicated either.

Thank you TwoKnives.

The point is that Hameleona and Magneto were both right so a put together their best ideas into one...That is symple,doesn't harm the gameplay and keeps the game historical acurrate.

[hameleona]

Hay, i'm just following orders - ahowl wanted the complicated variant and i made it in a way, that it could be interesting in game-play. If you ask me i would keep it 100% vanilla + one more MIC for AOR units.

[Asgaroth]

Hay, i'm just following orders - ahowl wanted the complicated variant and i made it in a way, that it could be interesting in game-play. If you ask me i would keep it 100% vanilla + one more MIC for AOR units.

We are just talking,don't get upset...The best thing is that we discuss it and see the negative and positive sides of both...

And I agree with you on the vanilla part...It is best the way it is...I also think that we should keep it that way,it makes the game so much alive and rapid-VANILLA mod...

[hameleona]

Well in my version, you could still have great troops in.. 4 turns :) So it's not that slow - that was what i wanted. AND it is a lot simpler than other variants. Otherwise - as i said - one building will rule them all, one building will gather them and give them to the player. :lol:

[Asgaroth]

one building will rule them all, one building will gather them and give them to the player. :lol:

And in the darkness bind them,haha...



4 turns

Till you get the roman units ?

[hameleona]

So... i guess we are on pause until ahowl says witch system he prefers?

No, 4 turns till you get the AOR units. Legion recruitment was not such a fast process.

[ahowl11]

I like Asgaroth's idea best

[TwoKnives]

Good then. I found Asgaroth's idea very good

[hameleona]

So in the end we are doing it the RTR way? I have to think about it and do it... tomorrow.

[Lord President of Gallifrey]

I actually think RTR's way is too long. I personally think it should be 2-5 turns to get legionary units. Slower than vanilla, faster than RTR. Of course, this is not accurate, but if you want in depth accuracy and realism, why not go for RTR and EB?

[Asgaroth]

I personally think it should be 2-5 turns to get legionary units. Slower than vanilla, faster than RTR.

That is how I planed also.....RTR but much more easyer and better for gameplay...

[hameleona]

BUT roman and AOR units at one time?
come on guys that is somewhere around as ahistorical as flying pigs...

[Asgaroth]

It is not...Why wouldn't you be able to recruit roman units in the second stage of ocuppation?...For the first stage I agree....

I suggest that we rather make better unit roasters then losing our time on AOR units and arguing around that...

However we should leave the process of the occupation(the three buildings)to symulate historical acurracy and auxilia units for the romans could be recruitable at second stage.We can use foederati infantry skin for that...

I don't want to argue...Just do what you want guys and lets get moving on with the factions...

Hamelona,realy,if you think your way is better then do it i n that way,no problem.I just think we are losin time on nothing and we are going to argue around this for ages and I just want to play the game and look at the awsome things we have done(our units,new map,scripted historical revolts and so on)..I personaly think that RTR has done the best way of recruiting AOR units,but as I said I don't like them.I think we should focus more on making faction units look great and make a good selection of units for each faction.And that is that. I have stated my opinion,Ahowl and TwoKnives have agreed with it,but I leave you hameleona to decide what to do as you are going to do the recruitmen as we do the units and I respect you greatly.You know best what you are doing,but please don't kill the gameplay and make the construction and recruitment boring like RTR so I have to wait 2555 turns until I get the faction's original units to be recruited that is all,thanks !....I only know one thing-as soon as the mod comes out I am going to edit the building script to shorten the time of recruiting the units,or making the buildings,because for 1000 time it kills the gameplay.

[Skull]

@Asgaroth - 1000 % aggreed!
We shoud finish the new factions first and then talk about the old ones!

I da covece,slazem se sto se tice vremena,iako su Rimljani trosili dosta para i puno vremena trenirajuci legijonare,nebi SMELO da bude vise od 2-3 poteza,isto vazi i za neke ostale elitne jedinice (spartance itd.)

[hameleona]

Asgaroth, i don't really care how the recruitment system will be. Just the fact, that roman legions, before Marian, needed a very specific type of social structure. And legions and (just as an example) hoplites in one province? Really? That won't kill the game-play? Come on guys! I can do it your way. But if you ask me it is better to just leave it vanilla then. Nothing personal - i just don't see why anybody WON'T go for the roman units. :)

So, yeah, i like the two possible ways - vanilla 1:1 (nothing needed to build the AOR units) or simplified EB stile. :)

PS: We are not losing time. What we deside about the Romans will be the pattern we will go for every faction. So we better fix the way. I like my way, cuz it gives options, and you don't really get a big advantage cuz you hod a strong AOR region. Easy balance. And yeas - pre-maian legions are NOT easy to instoll ina a barbaric/hellenic/eastern/etc. societies.

[Asgaroth]

And yeas - pre-maian legions are NOT easy to instoll ina a barbaric/hellenic/eastern/etc. societies.


We have already decided that there will not be that way of recruiting-Roman units in other armies...Elephanst in Roman army or Spartans in Gaulish army and other stuff like that...

So three people have already agreed on my option(Skull,TwoKnives and Ahowl,so it is it...RTR(like I explained it) way it is then or vanilla,no other,decide ?

[ahowl11]

Look its this simple.
Example:

Romans Capture Malventum (Samnite Stronghold owned by rebels in game)
For units they have three options:

1. Citizenship: the longest time for building i say we give it 6-8 turns (longest time to build a building in vanilla) gives romans full access to it's troops plus AOR units but is expensive and takes time, also has negative effect on public order and might cause revolts, but gains money
2. Colony: adds some population to the city, increasing public order (mix between cultures), money is stable, has full access to AOR troops, semi expensive and takes awhile 3-5 turns
3. Allies: increases public order, and income, AOR troops are very expensive however and will only take 1-2 turns.

You can always change from allies to colony etc. but it's a simple method, nothing complicated like EB, but not just one building like RTR it meets in the middle and stays with vanilla.

Thats my best offer for the mod.

@Asgaroth, patience my friend. I told you that we will go deep with every aspect of every faction as I want every faction to be unique to the player. It will take a long time. I rather do this than rush because then we will have a crap mod with many errors and complaints. We have no time limit. Let's utilize that, take our time and make every faction as best as we can.

@hameleona your idea is genius but it is too much for a vanilla mod. I want things to be more complicated of course but I would not want to wait 10 turns for a building. Even though it's realistic, we must think of gameplay. I just want the units to look historical not every detail of the game to be historical, because I want it to be a game, not a reenactment of history. The only things I want historical are this:
Units
Factions
Cities
The world in 280 BC
Characters
Historical Events/Revolts

Everything else we should make it so it's fun to play like recruitment, battles, interface etc

Hopefully we can all agree and move on to what AOR units Italy and the Romans will have access to

[Ave_Oz]

Yeah, please no 10-20 turns buildings. I know the timescale is realistic, but then we're going to face another problem, historically no civilization build 1 freacking building at the time right? So we need nuildings that take some time but no too long, somewhere in between. And for "goverment" buildings mmm i'm thinking....... well i need to check out the limit on buildings (i mean the hardcoded limit) but why not tweaking the cost and consequences between type of goverment choosed? IE: Romans wich gives the "citizenship" will have consequences regarding money, public order (using religion>cultures) etc.

[Magneto]

Look its this simple.
Example:

Romans Capture Malventum (Samnite Stronghold owned by rebels in game)
For units they have three options:

1. Citizenship: the longest time for building i say we give it 6-8 turns (longest time to build a building in vanilla) gives romans full access to it's troops plus AOR units but is expensive and takes time, also has negative effect on public order and might cause revolts, but gains money
2. Colony: adds some population to the city, increasing public order (mix between cultures), money is stable, has full access to AOR troops, semi expensive and takes awhile 3-5 turns
3. Allies: increases public order, and income, AOR troops are very expensive however and will only take 1-2 turns.


Well, Citizenship should have two steps in your options - The first part would be assimilation, which has the effects you wrote, the second would be to grant citizenship, which would give happiness bonus aswell the high-tier roman buildings. It will, however, cost alot, while it doesn´t take long to complete. (2 turns or so)
Assimilation should take as long, however due to the penaltys it will simulate a political decision with big consequences.


However I propose I slighty edited version:

Allied State: 2 buildings: The first one would allow you to recruit low level AOR Units, the second one every other (if you have the proper barrack, of course). After having completed the second building, you can also build the first building of Citizenship:
Citizenship: 2 buildings: 1. Romanization/ other faction-ization. This will remove culture penalty and allow building the normal buildings. The highest level can only be reached with the second building. The second building (grant citizenship) will also allow medium AOR Units.

Colony is pretty much just assimilation without granting citizenship. We don´t need it, for if we don´t want to grant citizenship, we simply don´t do it.

Now in building terms, you can do this:

AS building 1 + 2, then Romanization.
Romanization, AS 1(optional), citizenship

Romanization will first have a penalty on public order, after a few rounds it will vanish however and be replaced by a tax bonus. If we grant citizenship it will give a tax malus, but a happiness bonus. The first AS building will give a happiness bonus. The second one will also give a happiness bonus and a tax malus.

This means: If you surpress them (don´t build any building apart from Romanization) you have higher income, but lower happiness. If you start granting them rights (to govern themselves, or to be a citizen) you have lower income, but higher happiness.

Every building will just take 1 turn to complete. That would be 4 months ingame, which is enough to complete a political decision like this.
Pretty bad explanation.

[hameleona]

Actually i was thinking exactly about the game-play, when i wrote the long method. Why? It gives options. And game-play is based on options. If you don't want to give the player the historical d**k of slow building legions (the only real problem for the roman republic) - no problem. But don't try to simplify something so complicated as the social reforms.

We actually have a few Balkan people on the team. Ask Asgaroth, how long would it take for Serbia to unite old Yugoslavia if they could start a war for it? I would go on an assumption and say - a century. Defiantly not 6-12 months ;)

@Ahowl: And yes, i am confused - you can leave the social problems (the only real problems for an empire) on game-play, but not the roosters?
@Oz: No, not a single building in the final stage was more than 6 turns to build. ;)

So, i can give more argument about why i think my method is good. But since you find it too complicated - have it your way. :) I have nothing against a simple method. But i repeat - if it will be just there for the color (yes, one-building-government is nothing special, no offense) we may just make an AOR unit building and be done with it :)

[Asgaroth]

Why not do it like this :



Ocuppation-2 turns...low public order,because the homepeople resist the occupation,some revolts may occure.
Romannization-4 turns...It was the hardest to do,that is why I suggest 6 turns...lower rank roman units and better public order...auxillia units enabled.It is logical,isn't it ?after the Romanisation of the settlement.
Roman citizenship-2 turns....after romanization has been completed this state now fully belongs to the Roman Republic...After this you are able to build city barracks(2turns)and recruit legions and higher rank roman units,best public order,people are happy,and no revolts will occure...

So in 10 turns you will get the best Roman units-but you have to notice that in 10 turns we have builded 4 major buildings.



Yeah, please no 10-20 turns buildings.

Agreed.


Just to say something: first I don't like the idea to wait 20 turns to build,second I don't like the idea that some faction has more AOR units in their army then those from their roasters...I why do we even need to do AOR units,I don't get it




We actually have a few Balkan people on the team.

Wrong,half of the team or more.



Ask Asgaroth, how long would it take for Serbia to unite old Yugoslavia if they could start a war for it?

What does this have to do with anything ?....And I am from Croatia,not from Serbia...And I don't want to even go in that point and I say F.... the War.


And ahowl-why do we even need AOR units ?-If we don't make them it doesn't cutt of the history part.After a long debate I think that the units recruitment needs to stay vanilla as all these are just ideas that other mods have done and nothing new.I hate the idea of puting things in our VANILLA mod from other NON-VANILLA mods...

I am not going to write any more or suggest anything.I give up...

[hameleona]

Just to say something: first I don't like the idea to wait 20 turns to build,second I don't like the idea that some faction has more AOR units in their army then those from their roasters...I why do we even need to do AOR units,I don't get it

I don't see the reason to even have a government buildings i they won't make it more historical. Strictly game-play speaking... governments are not needed at all.
Roman republican legion was 1/2 infantry form the romans and 1/2 infantry from the allies.

Wrong,half of the team or more.

It was irony. I know that ;)



And ahowl-why do we even need AOR units ?-If we don't make them it doesn't cutt of the history part.After a long debate I think that the units recruitment needs to stay vanilla as all these are just ideas that other mods have done and nothing new.I hate the idea of puting things in our VANILLA mod from other NON-VANILLA mods...
It may sound strange, but i'm 100% for this. Except, maybe some auxiliary units. Culture specific and broad-spaced. (Gallic Auxilia for example).

[Magneto]

And ahowl-why do we even need AOR units ?-If we don't make them it doesn't cutt of the history part.After a long debate I think that the units recruitment needs to stay vanilla as all these are just ideas that other mods have done and nothing new.I hate the idea of puting things in our VANILLA mod from other NON-VANILLA mods...


I actually like that aswell. Maybe we could simply make 1-2 AOR Units. Like that we can recruit gallic Cavalry in Gaul, and maybe a Hoplite-Unit in Greece? That would have a low amount of work, but it still makes you able to have a few units which aren´t in your faction roster. We could also just make some mercenarys recruit in the proper regions. That would make them overall more useful cuz you can retrain them.

[hameleona]

PS: About Yugoslavia.
Serbia had a big ambition to not let the big republic to fall apart. They didn't made it, and we had a rough 10 years of fighting and problems (Kosovo was the last drop of it) on the Balkans. The thing i liked to say is that no one can control even similar people (we are all somewhat slavs, right?) easy. And it will take many-many-many years to get it done. So that is why i don't like the idea of 6 months government.

And as a whole i like the idea of just a few AOR units, that can be recruited from the barracks.

[TwoKnives]

And ahowl-why do we even need AOR units ?-If we don't make them it doesn't cutt of the history part.After a long debate I think that the units recruitment needs to stay vanilla as all these are just ideas that other mods have done and nothing new.I hate the idea of puting things in our VANILLA mod from other NON-VANILLA mods...

Some of the AoR units are needed, but not many. I would say 4-8 AoR units in total, mostly for Carthage and Rome, the rest for the Seleucids, Ptolemaics (don't know if I spelled that right) and Pontics.

[ahowl11]

Wow I remember at the beginning of the mod everybody told me that an AOR was essential. Now, nobody wants it? How do I make everyone happy?
Let's just make it as simple as possible, although it will be like RTR why don't we have one building? That building has 3 levels, 1st level takes 2 turns, 2nd level takes 4 turns, and 3rd level takes 6 turns.
There, that simple.

The mod is based on history. I don't want to recruit Iberian Infantry in Carthage, or Samnite Spearmen in Greece. I honestly do not see the problem with AOR units. It's nothing that is not vanilla. When a faction conquered a new territory they only had access to the local troops.

@Asgaroth don't you see my point? Don't get upset, AOR is not that big of a deal, especially if we use the method above.

BUT we will wait to make AOR units until we have made rosters for each faction. That way we know how many entries we have.

Ok, we have three more things left before we finish the Romans.
1. Post-Marian Roster (which I believe should stay vanilla, I cannot think of any new units to add)
2. Roman Temples: we need 3 choices like vanilla, when the player chooses one he cannot build the others.
3. Family Tree: Not hard at all. We can implement the consuls or we can combine the vanilla Roman families.

Then we move on to the next faction

[Asgaroth]

That building has 3 levels, 1st level takes 2 turns, 2nd level takes 4 turns, and 3rd level takes 6 turns.



NO,no,no,no,no,no,no and NOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.........14 turns + 8 to get the units....I do not understand.DON'T DO THAT BECAUSE IT WILL KILL THE GAMEPLAY....DO NOT DO THAT.




Asgaroth don't you see my point? Don't get upset, AOR is not that big of a deal, especially if we use the method above.


A Vanilla mod in my mind(VANILLA) has to have no more then 4-5 AOR units,why ???.......Because we are making a mod based on the VANILLA not a mod based on RTR,EB,RS and so on.



1. Post-Marian Roster (which I believe should stay vanilla, I cannot think of any new units to add)


Agreed...I Have found some unit named extraordinarii ?




we need 3 choices like vanilla, when the player chooses one he cannot build the others.

Yes vanilla.

[Magneto]

Wow I remember at the beginning of the mod everybody told me that an AOR was essential. Now, nobody wants it? How do I make everyone happy?
Let's just make it as simple as possible, although it will be like RTR why don't we have one building? That building has 3 levels, 1st level takes 2 turns, 2nd level takes 4 turns, and 3rd level takes 6 turns.
There, that simple.

The mod is based on history. I don't want to recruit Iberian Infantry in Carthage, or Samnite Spearmen in Greece. I honestly do not see the problem with AOR units. It's nothing that is not vanilla. When a faction conquered a new territory they only had access to the local troops.

@Asgaroth don't you see my point? Don't get upset, AOR is not that big of a deal, especially if we use the method above.

BUT we will wait to make AOR units until we have made rosters for each faction. That way we know how many entries we have.

Ok, we have three more things left before we finish the Romans.
1. Post-Marian Roster (which I believe should stay vanilla, I cannot think of any new units to add)
2. Roman Temples: we need 3 choices like vanilla, when the player chooses one he cannot build the others.
3. Family Tree: Not hard at all. We can implement the consuls or we can combine the vanilla Roman families.

Then we move on to the next faction
How about making a public vote over at TWC? We could first give all our proposals and ask if anyone wants to add a new proposal, and then make the vote, which decides.

All ways aren´t bad. Yet I was never for AOR - I just also was never against it.

[ahowl11]

How about AOR units are recruited with the barracks/practice range/stables but are only available in certain regions? That way we have AOR units but dont have to worry about recruiting systems? Is that better?

[hameleona]

Why the hell should we do AOR units for single regions?
Ahowl, dude, just choose what the hell is that YOU want. You basically have 4 main choices:

No AOR at all
Simple vanillish AOR stile - AOR's are just normal units, restricted to big regions (gaul, germania, thrace, illyria and so on).
RTR AOR stile - faction and AOR units at the same time in one place.
EB (sort off) stile - governments and AOR and Faction units separated.
And set the meter of historical accuracy from 0 to 10 for it. (obviously i won't have any work if we don't have AOR units).
Pick one and let mi think on it and i'll give you all a solid (as far as my skills allow me) proposal.

[Asgaroth]

Why the hell should we do AOR units for single regions?

Yup...Why do we even need them ?...We can make plenty other aspects interesting in the game...Every mod has them and since we are vanilla we shouldn't have them.




How about making a public vote over at TWC?


How about we Vote here and now ?

[TwoKnives]

Non-secretive voting is never a good idea Asgaroth, so you need to create another thread with a poll. Also, what will the options of voting be?

[Lord President of Gallifrey]

Simple vanillish AOR stile - AOR's are just normal units, restricted to big regions (gaul, germania, thrace, illyria and so on).


I believe this is the best. However, the team should have a vote on it.

And with all, due respect, it's not just about what Ahowl wants. It is about what the (core) team wants. Otherwise you end up with a messy scenario (The Version Crisis anyone?)

@Asgaroth: The extraordinarii were, simply put, the Italian Allies in a Polybian Army. For our purposes, the Post-Marian Army will be quite accurate.

[ahowl11]

simple vanilla AOR

[hameleona]

@ahowl, great decision! It is simple and effective!

Ok, people. I will make you hate me again but we should touch the post-marian units to. Just post your research/opinion for the points.

1. No praetorians - they haven't been around until the imperium (a.k.a. Augustus) so i think that we should remove them.
2. No Urban Cohorts - if i got it right, they are actually town watch.
3. The extraordianrii are allied troops, so we can use the term as a name - Samnite Extraordianrii (sort of, i don't really know latin). :)

And some non-unit related questions:
4. We should decide about the recruitment regions for the AOR. I suggest to not make them more than 30 (i think 40 is the maximum) and they should be one and the same for all the factions (not the units, they'll recruit, just the regions of recruitment - i.e. Gaul, Iberia, Britania, Germania, Thracia, Greek and so on). Also we will have some problems - no one knows what would have happened if GCS ruled the British isles, so some logical arguments and assumptions will have to take place for the sake of game-play.
5. I have a question - will the roman temples be: Mars, Jupiter and ... aaa... the Goddess of family or something like that? And will we have shrines (minor tamples) alongside them?
6. Interested in new buildings for the romans? Or should we keep it vanilla?

I just storm the questions.
BTW, i don't have 3ds MAX for a while. My laptop died, so i use a PC that can't run it. But the laptop is just waiting for a new hard-drive and RAM, so i'll be modeling again soon. And we have the perfect opportunity to clear the plan, those who have exams to take them and to gather research :)

[Magneto]

1. No praetorians - they haven't been around until the imperium (a.k.a. Augustus) so i think that we should remove them.
I would hate to see them vanish, even tough you are probably right.

2. No Urban Cohorts - if i got it right, they are actually town watch.
We had a discussion about this earlier. I still think we should have them as Spearmen which can only be recruited in Italy.

3. The extraordianrii are allied troops, so we can use the term as a name - Samnite Extraordianrii (sort of, i don't really know latin). :)

And some non-unit related questions:
4. We should decide about the recruitment regions for the AOR. I suggest to not make them more than 30 (i think 40 is the maximum) and they should be one and the same for all the factions (not the units, they'll recruit, just the regions of recruitment - i.e. Gaul, Iberia, Britania, Germania, Thracia, Greek and so on). Also we will have some problems - no one knows what would have happened if GCS ruled the British isles, so some logical arguments and assumptions will have to take place for the sake of game-play.
I think the AOR Regions should be roughly the same as the factions starting region, apart from the greeks in Italy. That way we would have 19 regions a 3 Units = 57 AOR Units

The smaller version would be to just make this dependant on the starting culture of the Regions. Then we would have 7 regions a 4 Units = 28 AOR Units

But since most of these AOR Units would be just reused ones, we would hardly make any new unit.



5. I have a question - will the roman temples be: Mars, Jupiter and ... aaa... the Goddess of family or something like that? And will we have shrines (minor tamples) alongside them?
6. Interested in new buildings for the romans? Or should we keep it vanilla?

I just storm the questions.
BTW, i don't have 3ds MAX for a while. My laptop died, so i use a PC that can't run it. But the laptop is just waiting for a new hard-drive and RAM, so i'll be modeling again soon. And we have the perfect opportunity to clear the plan, those who have exams to take them and to gather research :)

I propose that you can build a major temple (i.e. Jupiter, Mars, Ceres ... Maybe we could take from the other roman factions one aswell?) and then build a minor temple for the other gods/godesses. It is ahistorical that a City like Rome, for example, just has one temple.

[Asgaroth]

Maybe we could take from the other roman factions one aswell?) and then build a minor temple for the other gods/godesses.

Excelent idea-Could you make that ?...Since it requires scripting.



It is ahistorical that a City like Rome, for example, just has one temple.

Agreed...Or even Carthage.

[Magneto]

Excelent idea-Could you make that ?...Since it requires scripting.
Agreed...Or even Carthage.
I can make it, but it doesn´t involve scripting. It´s simple text editing in export_descr_buildings.

[ahowl11]

No Urbans, No Praetorians. We decided that a long time ago. Here is the whole Roman roster, that way we can count down models as well.
Camillan

Accensi
Rorarii
Leves
Early Hastati
Early Principes
Early Triarii
Early Equites

Polybian
Velites
Hastati
Principes
Triarii
Equites

AOR (No Matter what Region)
Archers
Funditores (Slingers)

Marian
Town Watch
Early Legionary Cohort
Early First Legionary Cohort
Legionary Cohort
Legionary First Cohort
Roman Cavalry

AOR (No matter what Region
Light Auxilia
Archer Auxilia
Auxilia
Cavalry Auxilia

This roster accurately let's you create Roman troops with Roman buildings and the common Auxiliary troops with the AOR building. This is how it will be in the game.

Also there are 64 regions hardcoded for AOR in RTW.. I will now make a list of each AOR region that way it is settled. We can come up with units after we finish the last faction and know how many DMB slots we have left.

AOR Regions
Italy
Gaul
Germania
Britannia
Iberia
North Africa
Egypt
Arabia
Syria
Asia Minor
Greece
Macedon
Illyria
Thrace
Dacia
Scythia
Sarmatia
Mesopatamia
Armenia
Persia
Bactria
Sogdiana
India
Massagetae/Dahae

We can further organize it later.

As for temples there will be 3
Jupiter: Most high god - trade income, happiness
Mars: God of War - population growth, weapons upgrades
Saturn: Jupiters Father - farming income, health, happiness

As for the family tree:
Consul 1
Consul 2
Maxentii Family
Julii Family
Scipii Family

[TwoKnives]

I'm glad that things are going back to normal. As for the Preatorians, they are basically Late General's Bodyguards with another name. However ins't the one-temple-per-city law hardcoded?
Also for the auxiliary units, don't you think that the names ; Auxiliary Cavalry, Auxiliary Light Infantry, Auxiliary Archers are better than Cavalry Auxilia, Light Auxilia, Archer Auxilia?
And last, but not least, "Urban Cohorts" were indeed town watchmen, but they acted as a police force. They were armed in the same way as regular legions, except that they did not have pila, and on rare occasions they entered the battlefield. However they were not as strong as regular legionaries, so in-game they should be slightly weaker than the Early Legionary Cohorts.

[Asgaroth]

I can make it, but it doesn´t involve scripting. It´s simple text editing in export_descr_buildings.

Nice Primo.



they are basically Late General's Bodyguards with another name.


Auxiliary Cavalry, Auxiliary Light Infantry, Auxiliary Archers

You are right on both things.



And last, but not least, "Urban Cohorts" were indeed town watchmen, but they acted as a police force.They were armed in the same way as regular legions, except that they did not have pila, and on rare occasions they entered the battlefield. However they were not as strong as regular legionaries, so in-game they should be slightly weaker than the Early Legionary Cohorts.

You are right so I say that the town watch for the Marian army are made out of their model,and just given a spear....AHOWL11(to bring your attention),what do you say ?

[Magneto]

However ins't the one-temple-per-city law hardcoded?
It is. You can only build one building with the Tempel feature. That doesn´t mean you can´t remove said feature for the shrines, but keep it for the higher leveled temples.

[ahowl11]

I say we still get rid of Urbans.. they are nothing but extra space in my mind

[Asgaroth]

I say we still get rid of Urbans.. they are nothing but extra space in my mind


Ok.OUr mod is call historical total war mod....Why would we need to get rid of a unit that historicaly existed and acted like police guarding the towns and insted we put townwatch ?...

Like them or not the fact is that they existed at our time period and they were watching over the towns,as I said and TwoKnives before me acting like police...So think about what you are going to do as you are in my mind going in the wrong way....

Hameleona can make that unit and then I can retexture it a bit.

[Lord President of Gallifrey]

Ok.OUr mod is call historical total war mod....Why would we need to get rid of a unit that historicaly existed and acted like police guarding the towns and insted we put townwatch ?...

Like them or not the fact is that they existed at our time period and they were watching over the towns,as I said and TwoKnives before me acting like police...So think about what you are going to do as you are in my mind going in the wrong way....

Hameleona can make that unit and then I can retexture it a bit.

According to Ahowl in the "This is a Vanilla Mod" thread, we will not have Imperial Units

The start date will be at 280 BC and the end date will be 30 BC

[Magneto]

According to Ahowl in the "This is a Vanilla Mod" thread, we will not have Imperial Units

Didn´t the empire start with Caesar? 30 bc is 70 years later? Why don´t you have Imperial Units?

[ahowl11]

Why have Town Watch and Urbans? Why is it such a big deal? Why am I criticized for everything I say? If you guys want urbans fine.

[Asgaroth]

Why have Town Watch and Urbans? Why is it such a big deal? Why am I criticized for everything I say? If you guys want urbans fine.

I am not criticizing you or I ever did....I just thought that we can switch the urbans for townwatch after the Marian reforms,that is all,that was just my idea...I am sorry if I said something wrong that made you or anybody else mad...I won't say anything again and I am deeply sorry.

[ahowl11]

Im not mad, it just seems like everyone disagrees with me about everything. Town Watch is for the marian reforms. They will not be around in the camillan or polybian

[hameleona]

Nah, it's normal. History is like a book - every one that reads it has it in his own way ;)
I two agree that Town Watch = Urban Cohorts. For now. And we can always add them, so everybody, please come down.

Ahowl, i do have some notes, tho... not criticism, just some term fixing:


AOR (No Matter what Region)
Archers
Funditores (Slingers)

AOR (No matter what Region
Light Auxilia
Archer Auxilia
Auxilia
Cavalry Auxilia

By AOR you mean local troops (gallic infatry, slingers etc. as an example) or just generic as in vanilla? Cuz... they are not really AOR if they are generic and there is no need of AOR units for the romans at all ;)

Also i suggest removing Saturn and adding Vesta as a temple. Romans strongly need Public Order buildings, and removing a PO temple from their options is going to make the game near-impossible in the late phases (itally will be thorn apart by rebellions cuz of the high population).

[ahowl11]

What I mean by those units is this. They were not Roman troops but auxilary troops that always were part of the army. And I mean generic, but I don't believe they should be recruited in a roman barracks but instead maybe an Auxilary barracks?

[hameleona]

Why even bother? Honestly, we can not represent the unit recruitment good, and we all know it. I think ether we leave it vanilla, or we make appropriate auxiliary troops from the other faction-roosters (the so-called extraordinarii units). It's your decision - i'm just brainstorming. ;)

[ahowl11]

i know. we all are. well i guess we add the auxilary units to the actual roster. thats not bad

[Magneto]

Why have Town Watch and Urbans? Why is it such a big deal? Why am I criticized for everything I say? If you guys want urbans fine.

Hej, I didn´t criticize you. There is no need to take it personal, I simply asked a historical question. I don´t know that much about history :(
This is always the bad part of teamwork - everyone has a different opinion, and just knows his idea is the only right thing to do - and acts accordingly.

[ahowl11]

Sorry for getting upset everybody. I just want the best for this mod

[TwoKnives]

I never said I wanted Urbans. I thought you guys did, I couldn't care less for the unit I hate the most in MP, I was just pointing out my info on them . However ahowl, what do you think about my idea on the names of the auxiliaries?


Also for the auxiliary units, don't you think that the names ; Auxiliary Cavalry, Auxiliary Light Infantry, Auxiliary Archers are better than Cavalry Auxilia, Light Auxilia, Archer Auxilia?

[ahowl11]

It doesn't make a difference to me really, I mean they are the same just worded differently. I would be fine either way

[ahowl11]

Nothing in the past few days, I have been busy as I'm sure you all have as well. We are finished with brainstorming now so we need to get to work.
Here is the schedule for the mod:
1. Get map from Ozman (I believe it currently has the cities in Italy and thats it)
2. Each of us download map and make the same mod folder.
3. We need to make sure the Romans own Rome, Capua, and Arretium
4. We all need to have the necessary models and textures for ALL of the Roman Units
5. Magneto needs to implement all the necessary units and then upload the files for us to test them.
6. We need to figure out how to include the Polybian Reform (I have posted it earlier in this thread on how to do it)
7. We set up the necessary AOR system for Rome.
8. We set up the temples and family tree for Rome.
9. We implement the banners/logos for Rome.
10. We test and correct any mistakes

I will try and get Lanjane to get the UI's done for hameleona's units

Let's get to work guys!

[TwoKnives]

Good then, is the map done?

[ahowl11]

should be. ozman needs to post it though

[Magneto]

5. Magneto needs to implement all the necessary units and then upload the files for us to test them.
6. We need to figure out how to include the Polybian Reform (I have posted it earlier in this thread on how to do it)

I will try and get Lanjane to get the UI's done for hameleona's units


1. Does anyone have the descriptions of the early Hastati? I know far too less about them to make them. I could just copy and paste them and replace Hastati with early Hastati (same for the other units)
2. You wanted to make the polybian reform with the later ones only buildable in higher tier barracks, right?

[ahowl11]

Lord President of Gallifrey could probably make a description..
And what do you mean?

[Magneto]

And what do you mean?
Well, I am not sure if I understood you:
How are the polybian reforms going to work? You have posted it somewhere, but I don´t know what you mean. Do we make the later units recruitable with a more advanced barrack or what?

[ahowl11]

That's a pretty easy one. Here's part of our script. I recommend just changing some of the names for your own use. I can't remember if this has been tested, though...

Code:

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
; 6.0 --Reforms-- ;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;;; 6A - Roman Reforms ;;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Roman Reforms:
;Roman_Reforms 0 = Camillan
;Roman_Reforms 1 = Polybian
;Roman_Reforms 2 = Marian
;Roman_Reforms 3 = They're done.

declare_counter Roman_Reforms

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;;; Polybian Reforms ;;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

declare_counter PolybianCondition

monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType romans_julii
and I_TurnNumber > 99

; Player gets the reforms after 200 B.C. regardless.
if I_TurnNumber > 239
and I_LocalFaction romans_julii
set_counter Roman_Reforms 1
set_counter PolybianReformsMessage 1
terminate_monitor
end_if

; AI reforms automatically after 238BC
if I_TurnNumber > 168
and not I_LocalFaction romans_julii
set_counter Roman_Reforms 1
terminate_monitor
end_if

; Player-triggered reforms
if I_SettlementOwner Mediolanium = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Patavium = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Bononia = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Iuvavum = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Moudon = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Lugdunum = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Narbo_Martius = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Toletum = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Numantia = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Caesada = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

if I_SettlementOwner Obila = romans_julii
inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
end_if

;Check if Reforms Conditions are met
if I_CompareCounter PolybianCondition > 3
console_command create_building Rome "Polybian_Gov"
set_counter Roman_Reforms 1
set_counter PolybianReformsMessage 1
terminate_monitor
end_if

;Reset Counters
set_counter PolybianCondition 0

;Cleanup
if I_CompareCounter Roman_Reforms = 2
terminate_monitor
end_if

;Cleanup
if I_CompareCounter Roman_Reforms = 3
terminate_monitor
end_if

end_monitor

Posted by Quinn Inuit the leader of Extended Realism a submod for RTR Platinum

[Ave_Oz]

Good then, is the map done?

No


should be. ozman needs to post it though

Should not

[ahowl11]

How long before it is ready?

[Ave_Oz]

How long before it is ready?

Long enough. You don't need to worry about it, the abscence of the map atm would not interfere with the developement of the mod, so let's resume to work

I've updated the thread of map progress, for anyone interested. Feedback is welcomed

[Magneto]

For everyone interested:

This files have the new roman units implented and the dogs, pigs and urban cohorts removed. You can´t recruit the new units in campaign, tough.
Just copy it in your data folder.
http://www.mediafire.com/?k6yt8r0aqhxrtui
Its likely that I forgot something or implented something wrong, so post it if you find a mistake.


To the recruitment:

Many players didn´t like the marian reforms because it rendered all the experienced old troops useless. If we include a second reform in this short timeframe, the average player wouldn´t like it.

The reforms also didn´t happen so fast - historically it was a long process. So this is what I propose (it was already proposed earlier in this thread, but well):

On the lowest (second lowest) barrack you can recruit the camillan units. The higher ones can recruit the "newer" units, i.e. those we already have in Vanilla. They are stronger than the camillan units, but have nearly the same costs. The player will still be able to retrain his old units in a few units, but he won´t recruit them anymore, so after a certain time it is likely that the old ones are vanished. But it would simulate the slow reforming of the army.

Just my 2 cents.

If we use the reform script, we will have the famous right-click ctd, btw. But it is quite easy to implent.

[Asgaroth]

I like your idea Primo.It is symple and good for gameplay.

[ahowl11]

I like it as well, being able to still retrain the units is nice

[Macedon1an]

Great idea Primo ! I like it a lot !

[Magneto]

I have finished making the reforms. What next?

[Asgaroth]

Nice Primo...We need to see what ahowl has to say.

[ahowl11]

Can I see a screen? What year does it happen? Just something. That is awesome. Lanjane does not respond, i'm guessing he is busy in real life. there are a few modellers that are active at TWC and we need UI's for the Roman units before we implement them. Conquistador and Soarin could help. Can you guys contact them and see their availability?

[Asgaroth]

Can you guys contact them and see their availability?

Are you responsible for thw "public" relations ?...After all you posted that that is your job...If you say something as a leader then you need to stick with what you say...Nevermind,I will contact them.

[Magneto]

Can I see a screen? What year does it happen? Just something. That is awesome. Lanjane does not respond, i'm guessing he is busy in real life. there are a few modellers that are active at TWC and we need UI's for the Roman units before we implement them. Conquistador and Soarin could help. Can you guys contact them and see their availability?
Well, as said before - Camillan Units can be recruited in the first barrack, the polybean after that. It does not look good right now because you would only see a few green peasants, so a screen is kinda ... . I´ll simply upload the files tomorrow, ok?

[ahowl11]

Asgaroth you are right. I will contact them. I should have some answers by the weekend. And Magneto let's wait until we can get some UI's done as you are also right

[Asgaroth]

Asgaroth you are right. I will contact them. I should have some answers by the weekend. And Magneto let's wait until we can get some UI's done as you are also right

I have already contacted Soarin.We will see what he says.


I like the way in what we are going to recruit units...



TO PRIMO

Have you implemented the units me and hameleona have made and do they they work ?


WORK

So we have done the banners,the symbols,the units,the reforms,the cities for the romans....The only thing left for them are the UI's right ?


QUESTION

On who's PC are we putting the mod together ?

[ahowl11]

I had the banners complete and I put it up for download but Lanjane said it didnt work. I dont have the files anymore but its not a hard task.
And why not use Primo's? if he is ok with it of course

[Magneto]

I had the banners complete and I put it up for download but Lanjane said it didnt work. I dont have the files anymore but its not a hard task.
And why not use Primo's? if he is ok with it of course
Sure.


TO PRIMO
Have you implemented the units me and hameleona have made and do they they work ?


I have included:

Equites Romani
Equites Polibean
Equites Praetori
Leaves
Accensi
Rorarii
Early Hastati
Early Princeps
Early Triarii

They all work, and look nice. Only the early Hastati Model can´t use its gladius, as I have posted before.
Were that all or did I miss some unit?

[ahowl11]

Could you show some screens of them in action?
for the equites there should only be two units. one is for the camillan army and the other is for the polybian army. The Praetori one was an alternate I believe. Also the early hastati and principes do not have a gladius as the gladius was not developed until after the first punic war

[Magneto]

Could you show some screens of them in action?
for the equites there should only be two units. one is for the camillan army and the other is for the polybian army. The Praetori one was an alternate I believe. Also the early hastati and principes do not have a gladius as the gladius was not developed until after the first punic war
Whatever they have as a sword, it doesn´t work. Only the pilla works. Thats what I wanted to say.

And I don´t know what the praetori are. I thought that they were the post marian cavalry, judging by their name. And didn´t I already give some screens of them in action? 2 sites or so before, I think.

[ahowl11]

You did? I will check. Hmm they are supposed to have a spear not a sword. And don't include the Equites Praetori

[hameleona]

People, honestly, you don't get it? Praetori=General's guard unit. (ok, it's not in good latin, but still).

[ahowl11]

Oh then we will just call them General's Bodyguard

[Magneto]

People, honestly, you don't get it? Praetori=General's guard unit. (ok, it's not in good latin, but still).

I´ve had 4 years of Latin, and I didn´t get it. Sorry.

[ahowl11]

Soarin has yet to respond about the UI's hopefully he can do them.

[ahowl11]

Soarin has finished the UI's! They are located here: http://www.mediafire.com/?83vvrl3z94vit66

Can someone download them and post the UI's? My school blocks mediafire