View Full Version : First Impressions?
Its unlocked on Steam. Got my key from Sega.
What do you think?
My random thoughts and impressions:
- Engrish bad
- Everything else good
- Campaign map is larger...not just because it has new islands but, for example, the main island is noticeably thicker. I also like the toned down mountains, in hindsight Shogun 2's map felt pretty constrictive.
- 40 UNIT BATTLES WHAAAAAT!?
- It's pretty hard.
SalmonSoil
03-23-2012, 00:52
I tried to expand at my normal rate but oh god modernization + anti-imperial resentment and now all of my neighbors are at war with me. It seems like neighbors will switch allegiance before attacking you, both Tosa and Hiroshima have done this to me (I am Choshu), as well a Tsukumi or whatever that faction to the west of Bizen is.
Also naval bombardments rock.
Gatling guns, awesome, came in handy when I was faced with an enemy army x2. I also like the option that you can now beat the campaign with allies as opposed to having to be at war with absolutely everyone. I was slow to build my navy at first and paid the price in enemy ship bombardments.
So far I'm very impressed. The balance between traditional and modern units feels good. I was concerned that the traditional units would be more rapidly overwhelmed. Every unit seems to have it's place, even if like the other campaigns it's difficult to justify expensive niche units, particularly as you modernize and get more powerful line units.
And God bless the return of functional battlefield artillery.
Veho Nex
03-23-2012, 07:55
Man, Im rollin scrubs so hard in MP. So far 11-1 in ranked battles where my only loss was because of a bad map where the enemy could shoot my guys and i couldn't shoot back.
Love the battles, so atmospheric. It's by far my favorite total war since Rome was released.
Going out on a limb and calling this track from the game one of the best thing Jeff van Dyck has made:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMyQx-r4IuI
It reminds me of the depressing and empty (yet beautiful) tracks from Civ V after reaching the modern period. This makes me giggle when imagining how goosbumpingly beautiful Jeff van Dyck's soundtrack for an ACW:TW would be.
Oh teh smoke everywhere o\
Also, why did they have to do away with the Japanese language and make everyone speak really accented Engrish?
Also.. Gatring guns at ze ready.
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A bit deeper first impression...
Stuff dies way too fast =p
Lack of tutorial for the new navies, or lack of tutorial in general is pretty lame for what used to be the price of a new game but I guess, in this modern age, 30 quid for an expansion is normal.
Several annoying sound bugs and an unecessary battle announcer who talks bullshit half the time anyways, but hey, this is Total War, so we're kinda used to laughing at advisors/announcers.
Campaign map feels empty... really empty. I kinda miss the busy campaign map from RTW or M2TW, where there were carts and ships all over the place but that carried over from S2 I suppose.
Hmmm... I shall post some more, as I play some more =p
They have Shogun 1 style Japanese-accented Engrish? Awesome!
Why did a certain recent patch (trololol) enable you to queue up arts in Shogun 2, yet the same does not work for Fall of the Samurai?
Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout
03-23-2012, 21:58
Has anyone noticed that was the same in Medieval 2? The voice over was for the other foregin factions, I must agree on one thing,the campagin, while I have nothing against the Game itself, does feel a bit empty.
And this voiceover for the japanese english is not good. No, retain original japanese.
Voigtkampf
03-23-2012, 22:55
Personally, I would prefer the speeches in the game to be less ridiculous. Shamefuru dispaay and all that crap, leave that at home, or for a parody. Oh, and during the last siege the US foreign adviser with that heavy southern accent actually hurt my ears. What the hell, is that necessary? are you trying to annoy us?
I love Empire and the specific languages, I want to hear my Prussian troops speak German, the French troops are supposed to speak French, not "engrish" with horribiru accent-O! :inquisitive:
frogbeastegg
03-24-2012, 00:34
My opinion on FotS is pretty mixed. There's some bits I like, some I don't, and a lot I'm withholding judgement on until I'm less of a newbie. Some of this feedback applies to Shogun 2 as well, as yesterday's patch back-ported a lot of the UI and AI changes.
The good.
Lots of UI tweaks, most of which are beneficial. I particularly like having tooltips on the building browser, saves me a lot of time when planning my development.
The UI artwork is nicely done, very atmospheric.
More music, and every bit as excellent as the music from S2 and RotS. It fits in very well.
Unit movement is slower, about the same sort of speed I modded them to in S2. Happy days.
I've been playing the historical battles a bit, and they're pretty enjoyable. Normally I don't care for them much. The first in the series is a real eye-opener on the power of artillery in FotS.
AI turns cycle much faster, I'd say around twice as fast.
Fleshed out diplomacy info is nice.
Economy on hard is very tight. Not much money to go around in the early days.
No more trade nodes!
The encyclopaedia seems more responsive. No 3 second pause between page changes, and pages scroll faster.
Opening movie sets the scene nicely for the campaign.
Strong newbie support: there's a comprehensive series of video tutorials. I watched a couple out of curiosity and they're great for people new to the series. I recommend newbies take the time to watch them.
The bad.
I loathe, detest, and despise the new battle announcer's voice with the fire of a thousand burning suns. No, that's not an exaggeration.
Naval battles. I've done a few. I guess they're a bit better. I still don't care for them. Slow, limited, boring, unless you really like cannons going bang.
Much more resource intensive on my PC. I had to spend a few hours tweaking settings before I could get it running smoothly. The large quantities of smoke are a particular frame rate killer.
I've seen a few bizarre AI moves, including a naval battle where it sat there and never moved.
Glitches. I've seen a bunch of graphical glitches, from diplomatic avatars with an ... unfortunate crotch, to armies sitting down on invisible seats. I had a pair of units get stuck in the ground and refuse to move during a battle. One of my trade treaties vanished into thin air; I was not notified that it had been broken, and could not locate any gameplay reason for it breaking. Steam's taken away an achievement I did earn (requiem for the dead) and replaced it with one I never will (a MP avatar one).
Now I can understand what my units are saying, I wish they'd be quiet. Endless choruses of "The enemy is in sight!" and "Hold steady!", unit after unit saying the same limited phrases every 30 seconds or so. I much preferred it when they spoke Japanese, and spoke less often.
New character growth trees. Gain 1 point per level, and all abilities cost 1 point to max out. That means you are always gaining something new, rather than pumping up an existing ability.
Load times are improved according to the patch notes. It doesn't feel like it. Rather the opposite.
Withholding judgement:
The tech tree. It's segmented according to your development, which makes it harder to use a deep/focused style of research. They may or may not be too restrictive, will have to play on and see.
Difficulty. Either hard mode lives up to its name (hurrah!), or it will get easier when I have some clue as to what I'm doing. Time will tell. Despite a few questionable moves by the AI, the game does have challenge and appears smart, same as S2.
Gun battles. Guns are not my cup of military tea, and I haven't had chance to explore many tactical options yet. So far it's not exactly edifying.
Artillery. I am scoring scary kill-counts with entry-level cannon. I hate to think how devastating the later guns will be, and fear that such strong artillery will make battles less exciting in the long run.
Zones of control for armies and navies. Now that the map is bigger, the zones of control around each army/navy feel a bit on the small side. It's too easy for the enemy to bypass you.
Happiness. Lots of happiness penalties as you modernise, not so many ways to counter. Not sure what the eventual balance will be. Could be good, could be tiresome to deal with.
So, in summary, mainly a case of liking the refinements, hating the voice-overs, having some tech problems, and needing to play the game a lot more before I can fairly judge the gameplay.
I started with Satsuma on hard. By the time I'd got it running smoothly, I realised I didn't like their clan bonuses much. I quit, and started to mess around with historical and custom battles instead in order to doublecheck performance. Next time, I'll begin a new campaign with a different clan.
Why did a certain recent patch (trololol) enable you to queue up arts in Shogun 2, yet the same does not work for Fall of the Samurai?
Queuing techs works for me, provided I stay within the unlocked tech tiers.
Stuff dies way too fast =p
In this case it's historically accurate, even if it was by accident. When you combine Napoleonic tactics with rifles and accurate artillery, you get devastating attrition rates. The Battle of Antietam is still the bloodiest day in American military history.
easytarget
03-24-2012, 01:31
I'm a bit lost on how the tech tree works now. Could someone give me the short paragraph on what changed. Right now I appear to be stuck researching both trees to get to the next branch, surely that's not how this works and I'm missing a trick here.
Veho Nex
03-24-2012, 01:40
I'm a bit lost on how the tech tree works now. Could someone give me the short paragraph on what changed. Right now I appear to be stuck researching both trees to get to the next branch, surely that's not how this works and I'm missing a trick here.
There are buildings that can be built that increase your modernization. If you just want to focus the military side you will have to plan your production to make up for the lost modernization on the civil side.
In this case it's historically accurate, even if it was by accident. When you combine Napoleonic tactics with rifles and accurate artillery, you get devastating attrition rates. The Battle of Antietam is still the bloodiest day in American military history.
But le boring =O
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Has anyone noticed how the marching sound (the sound of the steps) for just about any unit is completely out of pace?
easytarget
03-24-2012, 03:53
There are buildings that can be built that increase your modernization. If you just want to focus the military side you will have to plan your production to make up for the lost modernization on the civil side.
I usually focus on the other side, and for whatever reason the game I just re-started let me get to 2nd level of the tree w/o forcing me to do military development first, so I'm guessing upgrading the cities or something else must of allowed it.
Like I said, need someone to come along and explain what's up with economy now. W/O trade nodes to spam, got to get a handle on what are the new keys to running economy. I mean I know upgrading ports and that side of tech tree, but what else? And is there a road option to improve? Because this map spreads out, and allies box you requiring a long hike many times. Further, it also seems like many of the upgrades are pretty expensive.
Voigtkampf
03-24-2012, 08:21
Besides roads and trade nodes disappearing, there is not much difference from before. Suffice to say I don't pay much attention to economy, that thing levels itself out. I'd say the most important thing is establishing as many trade agreements at the very beginning of your campaign and picking out the most profitable trading partner is essential.
Oh, and yes, no roads, but you will get the railroad eventually, which should speed up the troop and agent movements.
What is the deal with the ninja movies and the likes? They seem to be gone now, is there a possibility to turn them back on?
SalmonSoil
03-24-2012, 10:19
I have played more of a campaign as Satsuma and feel I can give a proper impression now.
The map is larger and it seems to take ages to move anything anywhere. I think this is meant to be alleviated by railways but if I'm right railways are part of the telegraph chain, which there are none of on Kyushu so being Satsuma kind of sucks. The map itself is really nice with routes between provinces and a different art style making it feel really fresh. I intend to play a clan closer to Hokkaido next campaign to let me play up there. I also like that the value of koku has decreased. At the moment economy is tough but I think its because I don't yet understand what to build. Also monitoring your provinces modernization and happiness can be really tough.
I actually like the increased casualty rates of land battles, makes it feel quite accurate. I too wish the American adviser would shut up. It kind of breaks my immersion unless there happens to be an American foreign veteran in my army. And yes the soldiers should return to Japanese, the only excuse I can take on this issue is that CA couldn't afford Japanese voice actors.
Naval battles are interesting. I like the actual look of the boats. The battles seem very low casualty. I hardly ever seem to lose cannons or crew, however ships still seem to waver quick enough and I've seen a few ships explode/sink. The monotony of cannons is a bit boring but I think mostly due to the fact that I have only had low tech sea battles so far. Torpedo boats should spice things up, and ramming is really fun. Played a multiplayer battle which finished with a game of chicken between our two command boats. I wanted to see what would happen if two boats rammed each others front, but he started veering to the side so we broadsided each other and then I rammed the back of his ship, causing the back half to sink. Basically what I'm trying to say is sea battle can seem boring, but can sometimes be really tense and also cinematic.
easytarget
03-24-2012, 15:24
I agree, it takes ages to get around, or at least it feels like it, which is why I asked about roads, I need some way to speed this up besides railroads, which in my opinion are just in the game as a hook you never get to use while it matters because it develops too late or you can't connect it all to where you need to get to. But whatever.
I keep coming back to this thread just to discuss more things as I find them. The latest thing puzzling me, where's the province specialty info? I looked at my own province last night where I had a mine or something, I forget what, and the province tab is now blank showing no specialties?! So, with the fog of war covering it all up rather nicely, is this a game of concentration now where I just have to know by staring at a blank map where stuff I want to grab is located? I must be missing something here, because I can't for the life of me understand why you would take one of the strategic considerations out of the players hands, yet leave it in the game? Because the specializations are still there. You want the player to have more strategic options to consider not fewer, give him or her the info and let them decide what to prioritize in the battle plans of their campaign. I regularly in S2 and ROTS consider what's available to be developed in making my decisions on what to attack next.
In short, someone help me make sense of this intensely ugly manure colored map so I can plan my campaign with resources as part of it. :wall:
The specialties are still marked on the map, the icons are just really bizarre.
easytarget
03-24-2012, 15:50
Yeah, i see they are there, or at least I assumed that's what they were, but I can't make heads or tails out of what they represent.
"The wealthy invest their wealth to create more wealth. Riches are no longer only taken from the land, but from dark factories and foundries, new ideas given solid form. The workers labour to survive, working to live another day or week. Capital must have its profits to reward the wealthy and invest anew. The peasant may leave the fields, but his new master puts a new foot on his neck."
I love the depressing descriptions of modern technologies. It really makes you feel like Japan is losing her soul.
easytarget
03-25-2012, 02:30
There are buildings that can be built that increase your modernization. If you just want to focus the military side you will have to plan your production to make up for the lost modernization on the civil side.
Yep, figured that one out. The new challenge, keeping the peasants happy and down on the farm instead of revolting. Modernization on the shogunate side means I'm stuck wasting units in back provinces much more than I'm accustom to, which of course has recurring costs associated with it I didn't have to deal with in the first two iterations of the game.
Still having a blast figuring it out. Got to say, still don't have a handle on economics either, I'm basically just upgrading stuff to see what happens, same with ports. But that's half the fun.
Veho Nex
03-25-2012, 05:31
Yep, figured that one out. The new challenge, keeping the peasants happy and down on the farm instead of revolting. Modernization on the shogunate side means I'm stuck wasting units in back provinces much more than I'm accustom to, which of course has recurring costs associated with it I didn't have to deal with in the first two iterations of the game.
Still having a blast figuring it out. Got to say, still don't have a handle on economics either, I'm basically just upgrading stuff to see what happens, same with ports. But that's half the fun.
What i found as the most effective way, at least during my time playing, is to bring your taxes down as you go higher in modernization. You may look at that and think; "But Veho! If my taxes are down my income is down and I will make no money!", Don't fret though. You will, I guarantee it, make considerably more through your trade ports. I found a ratio of 5 trade for every military to be the best for income and protection. It makes having a massive fleet your most vital aspect. I always found myself with 3-4 defending fleets as well as 6-7 patrolling fleets during war times. The major drawback to this tactic is that you will notice massive drops in income per port hit. You can support several large navies with many ports so constantly keeps your protected.
As for maintaining a land presence you only need maybe 1 or 2 half stacks patrolling the homelands with 1 or 2 full stacks for the attack. After a few wars those stacks will be vetted to a point that you will not worry about much.
Just a few quick things I've noticed.
Levy troops are generally a poor investment. They no longer have a size advantage over regular troops and aren't much cheaper.
Line infantry at least until those unlocked by the modern rifles tech require support from dedicated melee troops.
It doesn't appear possible to 'tech down'. Once you increase your development level you can never revert back.
Replenishment now seems to slowly reduce units experience levels.
Wooden cannons are dumb. Seriously guys, what the crap?
Wooden cannons are dumb. Seriously guys, what the crap?
Something for Katsumodo roleplayers to use, I suspect.
Voigtkampf
03-25-2012, 09:04
Well, the did exist and were actually used a bit in Boshin war, so I guess that - kind of - justifies their introduction in the game.
easytarget
03-25-2012, 15:10
Anyone here care to explain what the point is in marriage inside your own clan or children for that matter? None of these events are going to benefit you w/in the time frame of the campaign.
As a result, it would be nice if CA had actually given this some proper thought and addressed it by providing more frequent offers to convert a unit to a general.
Because in my current campaign, if I manage to kill off just a couple folks, I'm going to quickly start turning peasants in leaders of my clan. :rolleyes:
Wtf pathfinding...
I now have to restart the battle of Osaka (historical battle) for the 5th time because my only artillery got stuck inside the town outside of the city, unable to set up or move at all and it is kind of hard to do it without the artilley.
Also units seem to like getting stuck on cover.
SalmonSoil
03-26-2012, 08:14
Anyone here care to explain what the point is in marriage inside your own clan or children for that matter? None of these events are going to benefit you w/in the time frame of the campaign.
As a result, it would be nice if CA had actually given this some proper thought and addressed it by providing more frequent offers to convert a unit to a general.
Because in my current campaign, if I manage to kill off just a couple folks, I'm going to quickly start turning peasants in leaders of my clan. :rolleyes:
In my campaign I got a new general every time I unlocked a new commissioner role. It doesn't happen on the exact same turn so the events appear unconnected, perhaps they are?
FOTS is the first Total War expansion that I'm really impressed with. So far, all the past expansions have just been kind of "eh" to me, like they were just trying to capitalize on the main game without doing anything better - more factions, different era, etc etc. FOTS, I think, perfectly blends Empire with Shogun, and it does a really good job at it by making the game fun and entertaining throughout. I rarely finish a campaign in any Total War game, even the ones I really like (like Empire, Medieval 2, Shogun 2...), but I'm actually enjoying the end game in FOTS, and mostly because I don't feel so alone because of the realm divide (as far as I know, pro-whatever's tend to stick together, except when one is more lopsided than the other, and pro-whatever fight among themselves because they have no way to expand). Battles are fun and entertaining all the way through the game, which definitely helps.
But, I will comment on some of the things frog posted since she made the most comments that covers a lot;
The good.
More music, and every bit as excellent as the music from S2 and RotS. It fits in very well.
AI turns cycle much faster, I'd say around twice as fast.
Fleshed out diplomacy info is nice.
Economy on hard is very tight. Not much money to go around in the early days.
No more trade nodes!
The above I agree with. The music is really nice, turns are faster than Shogun 2, and diplomacy seems less cut-throat. I've had the Tosa as allies in my entire Satsuma campaign. My vassal backstabbed me, but that really wasn't a big deal I suppose, and they did have some past grievances.
The economy is definitely a lot tighter than Shogun 2, especially without trade nodes (I liked them...). The biggest thing I've seen about the economy is that a simple mission to assassinate some character could result in a 50% boost to your income just like that. When I was hard up for money, I got several missions over the course of the game that was a huge sigh of relief, and all I had to do was kill this guy, raid this port, blah blah blah, and my money skyrocketed. Missions are a lot more important when it comes to that.
The bad.
I loathe, detest, and despise the new battle announcer's voice with the fire of a thousand burning suns. No, that's not an exaggeration.
Naval battles. I've done a few. I guess they're a bit better. I still don't care for them. Slow, limited, boring, unless you really like cannons going bang.
I've seen a few bizarre AI moves, including a naval battle where it sat there and never moved.
Now I can understand what my units are saying, I wish they'd be quiet. Endless choruses of "The enemy is in sight!" and "Hold steady!", unit after unit saying the same limited phrases every 30 seconds or so. I much preferred it when they spoke Japanese, and spoke less often.
New character growth trees. Gain 1 point per level, and all abilities cost 1 point to max out. That means you are always gaining something new, rather than pumping up an existing ability.
Load times are improved according to the patch notes. It doesn't feel like it. Rather the opposite.
First, I don't really mind the announcer. I imagine it was a way to try and connect with The Last Samurai, since that was a lot like how they talked in that movie. I don't know if it's historically accurate (though I will lean towards yes). I guess I'm just neutral on it. There are one or two instances in past games where I just couldn't stand a certain voice, but this isn't one of them. The voices of other units are not bad either - I guess it's a personal thing.
Your comment on naval battles doesn't seem like a bug to me. When I'm the attacking fleet, almost always the enemy ship will be at the far end of the map with his guns facing me, which is exactly how I would place myself if I was on the defending side. This way I/they can fire as soon as the enemy comes into sight, where the attacking army has to move up and then turn to place the guns into sight.
You are right that they are a little slow, though. The British "Warrior" ironclad is unbearably slow for how awesome it is, but I suppose that's the drawback. My guess is that certain ships are not meant for sea battles, and are better for bombarding cities, armies and ports. Not that these ships aren't awesome in fleet battles with all their cannons, but ships that are somewhere in the middle seem to be the best option for sea battles, something that combines speed and firepower. More often than not, a few well placed shots, or specials like explosive rounds on wooden ships, pretty much determine the battle. I've had great ships be destroyed by smaller, dinky ships because they just ran in circles around me, or got this one lucky shot that blew up my steam engine, or set it on fire, or just sank it. Compared to Empire, sea battles definitely seem a lot more even, and even a wooden ship can still be a danger to an iron plated ship (in comparison to Empire where if you had 1st or 2nd rates, you were practically unstoppable in the water). It's not an "i win" button, it just increases the odds slightly.
Finally, the unit advancement trees are not 1 point per level. At level 3, I think, you get two points (or maybe its level 4), and then at level 6 you get 3 points (or something like that, anyway... I don't follow it exactly), so it's possible to get all 3 rank 6 abilities, though you're more or less becoming a jack of all trades instead of being focused in one area, despite the many bonuses. You end up sacrificing points to buff particular skills higher. Some of the rank 6 bonuses are really nice too. Geisha's get a 10% bonus to tax income across all provinces... that is nothing to scoff at. I can't remember the others, but I know they were well worth it.
On the flip side, agents may be a little too powerful. I have 5, almost maxed rank, Ishen Ishi walking around enemy provinces just throwing up rebel incursions like it was nothing. I have to leave them there a few turns to make the province pro-imperial, but I could constantly raise armies to rebel against them since money is not so much of an issue at the later game, and it really doesn't cost that much. Assassinations are really powerful, too. I don't know if agents are broken, but they are really damn good. I don't use shinobi much, since Geisha and Ishen Ishi serve the same purpose. Foreign Advisors are almost always attached to my army or to my main training hub.
Withholding judgement:
The tech tree. It's segmented according to your development, which makes it harder to use a deep/focused style of research. They may or may not be too restrictive, will have to play on and see.
Gun battles. Guns are not my cup of military tea, and I haven't had chance to explore many tactical options yet. So far it's not exactly edifying.
Artillery. I am scoring scary kill-counts with entry-level cannon. I hate to think how devastating the later guns will be, and fear that such strong artillery will make battles less exciting in the long run.
Zones of control for armies and navies. Now that the map is bigger, the zones of control around each army/navy feel a bit on the small side. It's too easy for the enemy to bypass you.
Happiness. Lots of happiness penalties as you modernise, not so many ways to counter. Not sure what the eventual balance will be. Could be good, could be tiresome to deal with.
The tech tree seems kind of lame at first - I was trying to raise specific techs and then I found out I couldn't because I wasn't modernized enough. I'm still kind of up in the air about it too, especially when it comes to pro-shogun armies since I'm not sure how they'll do well in the late game without those techs (unless they have different techs? I didn't notice even though my first, short game was with a pro-shogun clan). Pro-imperial doesn't have any problem at all doing the modernization, though you're right that you definitely need to keep an eye on modernization in towns.
I like gun battles.
Artillery is AWESOME in this game. Having played a lot of Empire (probably my favorite in the series, closely followed by Medieval 2), I was so surprised to see how much different artillery acts in this game compared to Empire. I made another post about it that better convey my thoughts, but in the short - I will not leave home without my artillery... ever.
You're right about zone control and ships sneaking by your ships really easy. This is especially annoying during the realm divide and enemy clans on the other side of the map attempt to land armies behind your lines (yeah, they actually do naval invasions that's 100% more annoying than Shogun 2). Sometimes when you have so much land, it's easy to forget that some dork in a gunboat just drove by your massive fleet, you forgot about it because you did a whole bunch of other stuff that turn, and then he just makes his way across to your biggest trading income port and blockades it. I've had that happen several times, and I regretted not paying attention (or in this case; forgetting about it).
Finally, happiness is not that hard to work around. Yes, you have to be careful and watch the happiness level in the province before building modern buildings, but it's really not that bad for several reasons;
1. Levies are not terrible troops for defense, and they cost a pitiful 80 gold upkeep. You can easily stack troops to increase order.
2. Certain buildings provide much needed income and don't have a penalty, or it's really small.
3. You need to upgrade castles and such before upgrade buildings in a city. Not a big deal, just more time consuming. Not only does it make your city more secure defensively, but it increases public order.
What I do in my games is find one really good province that makes a lot of money (has a gold mine or whatever), and make that a defensive province by building a nice amount of troops for defense, defensive structures, upgrades and whatever, and then all the other slots I focus on economy buildings. I had one province making 11000+ by itself, when my capitol was only making 1800 because I focused it on troop development. It was obviously valuable, and probably would have crippled me irreparably if I had lost it, so I always kept a nice garrison there for defense.
Police stations are going to be the thing you build when you're conquering settlements and can't think of anything else to build, or don't want to because of low public order. Along with inns, those are usually what I build in provinces I capture that I want to make money (increased public order against modern trade buildings). I really only have a few provinces that I focus building troops with because of certain bonuses the province provides (like Satsuma home province with the blacksmith), and those troop buildings have a heavy penalty. Upgrades to city level you should never be building unless you plan on making that a primary base (such as for income or troop training) as those provide a heavy modern penalty as well. A level 2 city with 2 slots is just fine for making money (inn/police station) or 3 if it has a good craft item (inn/station/workshop), and they also don't need a lot of extra troops to keep happiness above the red. As always, any big money maker needs a trading port as well.
In the end, you shouldn't be worrying about happiness being over 20 or some crap. All of my cities are 0-6 base with no troops garrisoned, maybe a little higher if I'm lucky. Newly turned provinces I build enough troops to keep it at 0, and switch taxes off if I need to. With police stations turning the population, along with ishen ishi, they eventually fall in line and I can disband whatever I don't need.
On a side note, your navy should be healthy, because a lot of money will be made from trade, and the AI likes to play footsy with 1 ship fleets. Your allies may not be aware of their/your predicament as well, and if an AI bombards a main trading port, that can hurt your economy a lot. I send one of my own fleets to defend their route.
I started with Satsuma on hard. By the time I'd got it running smoothly, I realised I didn't like their clan bonuses much. I quit, and started to mess around with historical and custom battles instead in order to doublecheck performance. Next time, I'll begin a new campaign with a different clan.
I haven't noticed clan bonuses at all in my game. In fact, I forgot what Satsuma even provides, and it doesn't matter because I trounce everything I run across anyway. I vaguely remember one pro-shogun clan getting a + to traditional troops, but I really don't think the clan bonuses is a deal breaker. I wouldn't worry about it at all. It also doesn't matter especially if you play, say, a pro-shogun clan, and then decide to turn pro-imperial.
frogbeastegg
03-26-2012, 18:46
The biggest thing I've seen about the economy is that a simple mission to assassinate some character could result in a 50% boost to your income just like that.
After around 18 hours of play in 3 different campaigns, I haven't seen a single one of those. Hardly seen any missions aside from the set clans get at the beginning. ~:(
Your comment on naval battles doesn't seem like a bug to me. When I'm the attacking fleet, almost always the enemy ship will be at the far end of the map with his guns facing me, which is exactly how I would place myself if I was on the defending side. This way I/they can fire as soon as the enemy comes into sight, where the attacking army has to move up and then turn to place the guns into sight.
When I said it did nothing, I was being literal. It did nothing. It didn't fire back, it didn't move, it just sat there.
Naval battles are not my cup of tea. Never have been, doubt I ever will be. My intention was to say that steam-powered ships with torpedos don't manage to change that, as some of the pre-release material made it sound as if it possibly might. As long as I can auto-calc them without being penalised, I'm happy and don't mind them being part of the game if other players enjoy them.
Finally, the unit advancement trees are not 1 point per level.
First impressions ~:) At that point I'd only played for a few hours and hadn't gotten an agent past level 2.
Now I've reached high-level agents, I don't know. I look at the ability selection and basically pick whether I go left, right or middle, all the way to the end. Not much of a meaningful choice ... but then, that's always been the case since you have to tailor the skills to the agent's role. Hard to see how CA could improve on this. I'll give them a pass here, same as I did in the other two samurai campaigns.
The tech tree seems kind of lame at first - I was trying to raise specific techs and then I found out I couldn't because I wasn't modernized enough. I'm still kind of up in the air about it too, especially when it comes to pro-shogun armies since I'm not sure how they'll do well in the late game without those techs (unless they have different techs? I didn't notice even though my first, short game was with a pro-shogun clan). Pro-imperial doesn't have any problem at all doing the modernization, though you're right that you definitely need to keep an eye on modernization in towns.
Now I've unlocked the whole thing and reached the middle of a campaign, I've decided I don't like the new system much. Certain techs feel important, most of the rest much less so. Because techs are relatively free from links, it's easy to cherry pick the techs I want instead of needing to commit to a direction. On occasion, I'm forced to research techs I don't want because I don't have enough modernisation, and that does not feel like fun. Overall I find the tree presents few interesting choices, and contains fewer things which I want. I do not need an overall research strategy, I guess that's the main problem for me.
My Shogunate game is the one which has progressed furthest, and I've had no problems reaching max modernisation by 7 provinces. As far as I can see, the tech tree is identical. Modernisation is the only way; remaining traditional is punitive because you can't research much, and won't get many bonuses. That's understandable I suppose, but it does mean that there's no important choice to be made and that games will soon feel samey unless the player chooses to handicap themselves.
Artillery is AWESOME in this game.
I'm settling on "It's too good." The AI can't deal with me using it, and will only field the rare wooden cannon unit itself. Considering that I'm already finding battles too easy and am mostly fighting junk-grade armies, artillery feels like I'm taking advantage of the AI in a cheap way. It's not fun to use in those circumstances.
You're right about zone control and ships sneaking by your ships really easy. This is especially annoying during the realm divide and enemy clans on the other side of the map attempt to land armies behind your lines (yeah, they actually do naval invasions that's 100% more annoying than Shogun 2). Sometimes when you have so much land, it's easy to forget that some dork in a gunboat just drove by your massive fleet, you forgot about it because you did a whole bunch of other stuff that turn, and then he just makes his way across to your biggest trading income port and blockades it. I've had that happen several times, and I regretted not paying attention (or in this case; forgetting about it).
It's the same with land armies. The only time the AI has given me any trouble whatsoever (different subject) was when it happily walked right by the army I had guarding the narrow pass leading to my capital. It squeezed by the zone of control, walked halfway across the province, and laid siege to my province.
I think that the small zone of control ties into movement speeds to create a result I find problematic. Armies do not move very far, so it's hard to cover much defensive ground with them. That makes the bypass annoying. Then, it's painfully slow to chase down the enemy, and return to position. If armies could move further, I wouldn't mind so much. If they had bigger zones of control, the low movement speed would probably be ok. The combination results in a lot of tiresome walking.
Finally, happiness is not that hard to work around.
Sadly, you're right. I've found it easy to ignore, more a stat to throw money at than a real strategic consideration. Convert loyalty, build up the castle, throw in several levy units to act as a garrison, and add a police station if there's a real problem due to modernisation. Job done. Disappointing, and not enjoyable to deal with.
Police stations are going to be the thing you build when you're conquering settlements and can't think of anything else to build, or don't want to because of low public order. Along with inns, those are usually what I build in provinces I capture that I want to make money (increased public order against modern trade buildings). I really only have a few provinces that I focus building troops with because of certain bonuses the province provides (like Satsuma home province with the blacksmith), and those troop buildings have a heavy penalty. Upgrades to city level you should never be building unless you plan on making that a primary base (such as for income or troop training) as those provide a heavy modern penalty as well. A level 2 city with 2 slots is just fine for making money (inn/police station) or 3 if it has a good craft item (inn/station/workshop), and they also don't need a lot of extra troops to keep happiness above the red. As always, any big money maker needs a trading port as well.
I've been going cottage industry, market, and police station as standard in all of my provinces, in that order as I unlock slots. I let one province handle all military stuff, as each military building family adds an extra recruitment slot. Keeping recruitment centralised lets you raise forces quickly, and spares you the multiple turn wait as individual army components march to a gathering point.
Money is king in FotS. Everything revolves around getting more. Unfortunately, that kind of invalidates a bunch of choices. Difficult; money was too easy to come by in S2 thanks to the trade nodes, and so I appreciate the effort to make the economy tighter. I'm just not sure about the result yet. It feels like it may have gone a bit too far in the other direction, at least on hard.
I haven't noticed clan bonuses at all in my game. In fact, I forgot what Satsuma even provides, and it doesn't matter because I trounce everything I run across anyway.
Satsuma gets an extra province and a vassal, and I decided I didn't like the shape they pulled my game into.
Unfortunately, I agree with the latter part too. The game is very easy. On normal, it's mind-numbing. On hard, it's only difficult because they increased the costs of buildings and units, and that means you can't afford to do much. Also, I've found that the AI goes rather psychotic on hard. Unlike S2 and RotS, I do not feel like I am being legitimately challenged. The AI itself is not very good, not at all. It constantly fields tiny armies of levy units. In 18 hours, the (very rare!) full stacks I have seen comprised of levy infantry and a wooden cannon or three. On the battlefield, it charges its general right at me, and then appears uncertain as to what it should do with the rest of its army.
Overall ... after 20 hours I don't like FotS much, and it truly saddens me to say that. It feels far too easy, the AI is quite weak, and the game fails to present me with a good array of meaningful strategic choices. I do not find the style of warfare engaging, particularly since the AI fails to field decent armies. The new style of difficulty setting is a massive disappointment. Many of the units seem useless, and too many of the buildings offer choices between near-identical results. The pacing feels off too. By nature I'm a slow player, I like to develop and research, and yet I'm finding FotS rather plodding. I spend too much time waiting to be able to do things, whether it's waiting for modernisation to kick up a level so I can research, or waiting for an army to amble into position.
I knew from the day it was announced that FotS would be a harder game for me to like, since I do not like gunpowder era warfare or pre-modern history. All the same, I hoped the design would be good enough to overcome that. I'll continue to play for a while, see if I can at least finish 2 campaigns before giving up. It's possible I've had some freak bad luck, or that something need patching (game is full of glitches for me), and things will improve. If not, I'll be shelving it and drawing my katana once more.
I'm not sure I understand why someone would be willing to play a game for more than 20 hours, be disappointed with it as much as you seem to be, and still keep playing it as if anything is going to change. Maybe with a patch or something, but I think if the game hasn't caught you yet, you should probably just spare yourself the time and move on. If a game can't keep me interested in the first 1-2 hours, I'll never play it again - frees up a lot of spare time. ;)
Peasant Phill
03-26-2012, 21:18
I've just played my first naval battle. I noticed how fast a ship routs. I can understand that a gun boat choses to flee after 2 or 3 broadsides from a corvette decimates more than half the crew but didn't expect the same from my corvette.
In short you have to be very careful with your ships and defending gives you a big advantage.
frogbeastegg
03-26-2012, 21:42
I'm not sure I understand why someone would be willing to play a game for more than 20 hours, be disappointed with it as much as you seem to be, and still keep playing it as if anything is going to change. Maybe with a patch or something, but I think if the game hasn't caught you yet, you should probably just spare yourself the time and move on. If a game can't keep me interested in the first 1-2 hours, I'll never play it again - frees up a lot of spare time. ;)
I made an agreement and intend to honour it, although when I made that agreement I didn't know how disappointed I'd be with the game. I said I would play a "No Gun Shogun" game and do an AAR here, making a joke out of my stated dislike for gunpowder warfare and modernisation. See how far I could get whilst remaining staunchly traditional. It should have been funny, ending with me going down in flames and gunpowder. The game handles modernisation differently to what I expected, so it's going to be more of a handicap game than planned. On the other hand, if the AI behaves in the same way I should be able to katana people to death for a lot longer than expected. We'll see how long I survive. That will be my second campaign, using Aizu.
Peasant Phill
03-26-2012, 23:08
Perhaps it's been said before, but I'm getting seasick from the moving menu screens.
You mean the main menu? I am pretty sure that can be turned off with some fiddling around with files or somesuch.
Perhaps it's been said before, but I'm getting seasick from the moving menu screens.
I like it, especially the railroad and the ship tour.
I made an agreement and intend to honour it, although when I made that agreement I didn't know how disappointed I'd be with the game. I said I would play a "No Gun Shogun" game and do an AAR here, making a joke out of my stated dislike for gunpowder warfare and modernisation. See how far I could get whilst remaining staunchly traditional. It should have been funny, ending with me going down in flames and gunpowder. The game handles modernisation differently to what I expected, so it's going to be more of a handicap game than planned. On the other hand, if the AI behaves in the same way I should be able to katana people to death for a lot longer than expected. We'll see how long I survive. That will be my second campaign, using Aizu.
I don't think anyone is going to hold it against you if you decide to renege on that agreement, but to each his own.
Veho Nex
03-27-2012, 07:45
I don't think anyone is going to hold it against you if you decide to renege on that agreement, but to each his own.
Its very easy I found to conquer without modernizing. Play against the AI weaknesses such as using your general as bait while your troops sit in woods or using plenty of cav to flank. My no gun game went much smoother and considerably easier than my game where i rushed tech and had the most advanced armies
Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout
03-27-2012, 07:55
I really think CA should be reading these threads, I've been on the total war forums(the official one) And people have been complaining about FOTS issues, they've even started a ''patch notes for thread'' list. Also, it has been confirmed that CA intend to release all the missing units of NTW.
But really, Thanks for the patch which spoiled my 2nd computer. Hopefully, it should work on the 1st one, Oh and please read the threads about FOTS issues and get the damn game fixed. I'm no longer going to remain in a Shogunate-CA place if they don't release some good patches, and bring back the lust and glory of the blood pack, we need the gloss and shine. I might as well go to the Imperalist side.
frogbeastegg
03-27-2012, 12:24
I don't think anyone is going to hold it against you if you decide to renege on that agreement, but to each his own.
There's always the hope it will turn out better. Some games improve when you stop viewing them seriously. If not, I won't have lost much, may have provided a bit of entertainment for people, and can shelve the game in the knowledge I gave it a good shot.
Peasant Phill
03-27-2012, 22:26
I don't know if it's only the saga faction but I find there victory conditions very illogical. In the short campaign on medium (yes, I play my first campaign on the difficulty as intended by CA) they need to conquer 2 provinces on the other side of the map (both far apart) with no strategic significance (at first glance). It's like the developers just threw 2 darts to determine which provinces needed to be conquered.
I don't have my game yet but I seem to remember from screenshots that one of them is Tokyo. I think the other is the capital of Aizu domain.
It's Kyoto and Edo - one is where the Emperor lives, the other is the Shogun's house.
easytarget
03-28-2012, 02:42
Did I miss something, or is the province summary display you pull up by double clicking on the province capital missing the specialization of that province? Mine are all blank where at the top it used to list what that province specialized in. It was in S2. It was in ROTS. Why would they remove it? Or did it move somewhere else? If so, let me know where.
I find that my infantry often gets stuck on fences around the bonusses. When they are stuck I can't move them for the duration of the entire battle. It seems to be related to the "kneel" ability
I also find that ships often catches fire or explodes by just enabling "overheat" or taking 1 hit. This goes for the largest ironclads too
Infantry gets stuck on cover when you send them into it with the kneeling ability activated.
Fix: Send them to a different part of cover or a different cover, wait for them to leave the cover they are in and click 'Stop'. Now you can deselect the 'Kneel' ability and use them again.
Peasant Phill
03-28-2012, 09:42
I don't have my game yet but I seem to remember from screenshots that one of them is Tokyo. I think the other is the capital of Aizu domain.
It's Kyoto and Edo - one is where the Emperor lives, the other is the Shogun's house.
I already thought of that. The provinces in the objectives are vaguely in the vicinity of Kyoto and Edo but certainly not in a place to directly protect or threathen both cities. Conquering and holding isolated provinces with little strategical value just seems illogical. Or are these victory conditions grounded in historical reality?
It is Tokyo and Edo. The provinces are called something defferent. Edo was the seat og the Tokugawa Shogunate, and Tokugawa Ieyasus' main capital after the Sengoku Jidai. Kyoto has alwaays been the seat of the Japanese emperor.
I think there is some confusion here. Edo was later renamed to Tokyo.
And like jepp pointed out; both have value, because both seated someone in power (Kyoto = Emperor, Edo/Tokyo = Shogunate). You wouldn't conquer the Romans without conquering Rome. Unless, of course, they gave up, but no one in power is just going to give it up when victory can easily be decided by a single battle.
Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout
03-28-2012, 20:08
I think there is some confusion here. Edo was later renamed to Tokyo.
And like jepp pointed out; both have value, because both seated someone in power (Kyoto = Emperor, Edo/Tokyo = Shogunate). You wouldn't conquer the Romans without conquering Rome. Unless, of course, they gave up, but no one in power is just going to give it up when victory can easily be decided by a single battle.
And so you make the eventful return.
easytarget
03-29-2012, 00:07
Is my post above in invisible ink? :help:
Is my post above in invisible ink? :help:
I haven't played FotS yet, but I've read someone else make the same comment. One response was that there are symbols for the province specialisms visible on the map, but these apparently are not very obvious or easily interpretable. It does sound a step backwards.
easytarget
03-29-2012, 00:37
Thx man for the response!
I was just asking because it struck me as an odd step back and unnecessary. Taking info away from the player they previously had available to them for no reason just struck me as wrong headed and honestly unfathomable.
Gregoshi
03-29-2012, 01:56
I was just asking because it struck me as an odd step back and unnecessary. Taking info away from the player they previously had available to them for no reason just struck me as wrong headed and honestly unfathomable.
Sounds like it is probably a bug, and a small enough thing to be overlooked during testing.
I already thought of that. The provinces in the objectives are vaguely in the vicinity of Kyoto and Edo but certainly not in a place to directly protect or threathen both cities. Conquering and holding isolated provinces with little strategical value just seems illogical. Or are these victory conditions grounded in historical reality?
You can meet the victory conditions by just having an ally control the required provinces now. The Imperial/Shogun faction needs to achieve hegemony over Japan, not your clan specifically.
Peasant Phill
03-29-2012, 07:19
You can meet the victory conditions by just having an ally control the required provinces now. The Imperial/Shogun faction needs to achieve hegemony over Japan, not your clan specifically.
Oh, OK. That seems more logical.
BTW, I've checked again and it was definetly not Edo and Tokyo in the victory conditions.
TargetSlayer
03-29-2012, 15:55
Appreciate the feedback by others. I especially enjoyed the detailed comments by Madae. Mine will be brief.
I cannot believe the hours I have enjoyed with this expansion already. I really didn't enjoy Shogun 2, although I did find the RotS more engaging. With Empire and Napoleon I didn't expect to enjoy ranged contests as much as I did, but now with Shogun I am back enjoying rifles and cannons along with Gatling guns. I also enjoy the naval battles again. In Shogun they were a disappointment to me after Empire/Napoleon.
With regards to gameplay, I appreciate that the game no longer penalizes you when developing/expanding your settlements. While some care is needed at the beginning, I have nearly fully developed all my older settlements without too much difficulty. On my second play through I will probably specialize more.
I do find you have to play almost every naval battle or be prepared to lose an Ironclad or two needlessly. Also, I find that the AI sends a lot of small fleets to harass your harbours, fair enough though tiring to chase them all down. Can't seem to contain them.
On Normal the battles seem too easy with a modern army possessing say 4 cannons and a couple Gatling guns, but I suppose it should be. Not a big complaint as I shamefully just like expanding my empire slowly, micro-managing everything to death. Strong opposition is counter productive to all this business. :inquisitive:
I also find the agents a bit too powerful, and I am disappointed that my strong agents cannot thwart the actions of the opposition better than they seem to be doing. Pushing the frontline further east has resulted in a tonne of enemy agents killing a lot of my agents and generals. Next time I will endeavour to bring a lot more developed agents to the front. Geishas don't seem that useful to me. Foreign army trainers and your police agents are however very useful, at least to my gameplay style.
Anyway, this was supposed to be short. Playing every night at the moment and enjoying the game. With some tweaks it should be better.
With regards to gameplay, I appreciate that the game no longer penalizes you when developing/expanding your settlements. While some care is needed at the beginning, I have nearly fully developed all my older settlements without too much difficulty. On my second play through I will probably specialize more.
Yeah, the game definitely allows for more freedom and less micromanagement in that department. I'm ambivalent either way (having a food limit or not), but it's a relief not having to worry about it altogether.
I do find you have to play almost every naval battle or be prepared to lose an Ironclad or two needlessly. Also, I find that the AI sends a lot of small fleets to harass your harbours, fair enough though tiring to chase them all down. Can't seem to contain them.
I definitely noticed this as well. Sometimes I just can't bother to waste my time trying to destroy a single ship, even though I know there is a possibility I will cost myself a lot of men and cannons on a ship or two, and maybe even lose it. My only beef with the navy battles is that they are a lot slower than Empire, and ships seem a lot more unwieldy - you can definitely see and feel the difference between a smaller, lighter ship and a larger, heavier one.
On Normal the battles seem too easy with a modern army possessing say 4 cannons and a couple Gatling guns, but I suppose it should be. Not a big complaint as I shamefully just like expanding my empire slowly, micro-managing everything to death. Strong opposition is counter productive to all this business. :inquisitive:
Another solid point - battles are pretty easy in this game when you carry a lot of artillery with you. However, if the AI utilized artillery more often, especially the later types, it would be a lot more difficult. I've fought a few battles where I was on the attacking end and was forced to march into their artillery - all I had were gatlings, so they had to be moved closer and I couldn't "persuade" the enemy to charge me since I was bombarding them with cannons. Unfortunately, even their wooden cannons were enough to take out both of my gatlings before they even got within range, and I took heavy losses before I even set up my line in front of them. I was able to win the battle since my troops were a lot more experienced and were better types, but I can see how the game would be a lot different if the AI carried more artillery.
I also find the agents a bit too powerful, and I am disappointed that my strong agents cannot thwart the actions of the opposition better than they seem to be doing. Pushing the frontline further east has resulted in a tonne of enemy agents killing a lot of my agents and generals. Next time I will endeavour to bring a lot more developed agents to the front. Geishas don't seem that useful to me. Foreign army trainers and your police agents are however very useful, at least to my gameplay style.
Like I said before, Geisha have a wonderful level 6 ability to increase your income across all provinces by 10% - that is a nice bonus, though I'm not sure if it stacks with multiple geisha. They're definitely not as evil as they were in vanilla (in regards to cutting everyone down in front of them through assassinations), but they still provide a lot of good bonuses. The morale bonus from Inspire Army is great, and the ability to "sabotage" an army is a nice addition. You can effectively use them and Ishen Ishi to cover all the abilities of a Shinobi, with the added bonus of increased morale when attached to an army. I didn't do the enchant thing much, but I can see how that would be effective too if you were really hard up for generals - AI is never in short supply.
I haven't had much trouble with assassinations on my agents. A few made attempts, but all my agents were maxed level and couldn't touch me. I utilized Ishen Ishi more than anything and took out everything in front of me with them anyway. Being able to assassinate, convert and create rebellions was an awesome benefit.
Oh, OK. That seems more logical.
BTW, I've checked again and it was definetly not Edo and Tokyo in the victory conditions.
It names them by province not city. Tokyo (or Edo) is in Musashi, Kyoto is in Yamashiro.
Peasant Phill
03-30-2012, 11:15
It names them by province not city. Tokyo (or Edo) is in Musashi, Kyoto is in Yamashiro.
:stupid:
Oh, OK.
Nevermind then.
My biggest first impression is that a lot of the borders of the provinces changed. On the main four islands that was there previously in Shogun 2 and RoTS, I only noticed 2 provinces that are new. However, the borders of just about every province has moved.
I didn't have time to actually play the game and mostly just looked at the tech trees and stats. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the highest tier buildings seem terrible this time around. I think the last gold mine upgrade, for example, is 10000 for a measly 300 additional wealth.
I started a game with Saga but am wondering about the unique units other factions have. Are there any limits to units like Tosa Riflemen and the Red/White/Black Hat infantry and so on?
My biggest first impression is that a lot of the borders of the provinces changed. On the main four islands that was there previously in Shogun 2 and RoTS, I only noticed 2 provinces that are new. However, the borders of just about every province has moved.
The map does seem slightly larger, not just in land mass, but more as if it is "zoomed in" more. There are several new, one province islands though, along with a Kyushu-esque (without a land route to the mainland) island on the other side of the map near the Date starting point.
I didn't have time to actually play the game and mostly just looked at the tech trees and stats. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the highest tier buildings seem terrible this time around. I think the last gold mine upgrade, for example, is 10000 for a measly 300 additional wealth.
I'm going off memory here, but I believe the primary "money-making" upgrade was 1700 -> 2100 or so. Still, you gotta look at it from the long term. Without a gold mine, a province really doesn't make crap to begin with. I had a town with a gold mine making 11,000+ a turn by itself, compared to the 1800 my fully developed capitol was making. There are also several different bonuses that lower the cost of constructing buildings.
I don't agree that "all high-tier buildings" are terrible. Gatlings come from the highest tier artilerry range, Imperial/Shogunate Guard troops from the highest tier infatry buildings, many craft buildings have two routes to develop (better single province, or bonuses faction-wide), etc etc. If you want to upgrade a town completely, you'll probably need a max level police station to keep public order up vs. modernisation.
I started a game with Saga but am wondering about the unique units other factions have. Are there any limits to units like Tosa Riflemen and the Red/White/Black Hat infantry and so on?
There are unique units for each faction, but probably not the ones you're looking for. Tosa did have one - I remember seeing them running around with some - but I was playing Satsuma, and only noticed that I had some "bear-head" infantry that were not quite as good as the second-best (compared to Imperial Guard) Imperial Infantry.
The map does seem slightly larger, not just in land mass, but more as if it is "zoomed in" more. There are several new, one province islands though, along with a Kyushu-esque (without a land route to the mainland) island on the other side of the map near the Date starting point.
That would be Hokkaido, the second largest island in Japan.
I'm going off memory here, but I believe the primary "money-making" upgrade was 1700 -> 2100 or so. Still, you gotta look at it from the long term. Without a gold mine, a province really doesn't make crap to begin with. I had a town with a gold mine making 11,000+ a turn by itself, compared to the 1800 my fully developed capitol was making. There are also several different bonuses that lower the cost of constructing buildings.
I don't agree that "all high-tier buildings" are terrible. Gatlings come from the highest tier artilerry range, Imperial/Shogunate Guard troops from the highest tier infatry buildings, many craft buildings have two routes to develop (better single province, or bonuses faction-wide), etc etc. If you want to upgrade a town completely, you'll probably need a max level police station to keep public order up vs. modernisation.
I was talking more about the economic buildings rather than the military ones. Some previous CA games like Rome and Medieval 2 were notorious in that the first tier buildings like ports and markets gave huge bonuses but upgrading them were very expensive while providing marginal benefit. At first glance, I found some of the highest tier economic buildings to be very expensive while not looking like they provided much in the way of benefits. Of course, I don't have a game that is far enough yet to build them.
I was wondering if there's something to be said for only building the first 2-3 tiers of mines, factories or other buildings.
There are unique units for each faction, but probably not the ones you're looking for. Tosa did have one - I remember seeing them running around with some - but I was playing Satsuma, and only noticed that I had some "bear-head" infantry that were not quite as good as the second-best (compared to Imperial Guard) Imperial Infantry.
The bear heads come much earlier, though, no? Or at least, that's my theory on what CA intended for them to be upon looking at the tech tree. Tosa does have a unique light infantry unit that's better than the regular sharpshooters.
That would be Hokkaido, the second largest island in Japan.
Totally too lazy to wiki it.
I was wondering if there's something to be said for only building the first 2-3 tiers of mines, factories or other buildings.
I guess that depends on you more than anything. If I'm barely making it by with money in my game, I'll save up the first chance I get and dump it into a building that will increase my revenue. I know it won't pay off for 10+ turns (most buildings of that level take that long), but I'm usually involved in something else at the same time that is taking up my time, such as a war on any particular front. If you haven't made it to the point yet to gauge how much money you're making vs. how much it cost to build certain things, it may be harder to understand. In my case, I'm always looking to bump my economic buildings whenever I have a free moment, regardless of the cost, because I know in the future it will pay off.
Some craft buildings are not worth it though unless you really need it. Coal does provide income, but the primary bonus is for ships. Iron/Steel is for artillery. I only upgrade those if I need it. Silver and Gold mines I will always upgrade, because it is 100% income.
The bear heads come much earlier, though, no? Or at least, that's my theory on what CA intended for them to be upon looking at the tech tree. Tosa does have a unique light infantry unit that's better than the regular sharpshooters.
I believe they were the second to last tier, and came along with the first level of Imperial troops. At first glance, they weren't better than what I compared them to, but maybe I was looking at it wrong. I haven't seen a need for specialty troops like that, yet. The gold of an army is going to be with your artillery anyway, and whatever troops that you can put between them and the enemy will always be a good choice.
Totally too lazy to wiki it.
I was in Hokkaido for a week last December. Totally worth it to invade just for the food.
I was in Hokkaido for a week last December. Totally worth it to invade just for the food.
Hah.
I totally did just because I could.
After soem playing..
AI is just as useless as in every TW game.. game looks nice tho \o/
AI is just as useless as in every TW game..
Oh come on. STW and MTW had very good battlefield AI. As did S2TW. The strategic AI in those STW and S2TW was not too shabby either. I can't comment on FotS yet, as I haven't played it but let's avoid hyperbole.
easytarget
03-31-2012, 19:30
After soem playing..
AI is just as useless as in every TW game.. game looks nice tho \o/
If you're going to troll this thread, at least put some energy into it.
What do I have to do in order to find it challenging? The only way the AI is somewhat challenging is if you give it huge advantages over the player units as well as reducing the player unit's base morale.. I know it is probably impossible to make a truly challenging AI at this time for a game like this but some of the things the AI does, no matter what the difficulty settings are just oO
Like they are so pointless and stupid.. you ask yourself how the guys making the AI had the idea of making it do things like this..
You win one battle, you have won them all, unless you are hilariously outnumbered.
I am not trying to troll anything, I just feel they could've done a bit better. The AI seriously isn't any better than it was in Empire/Napoleon, there is just as little diversity between different factions ever since those games but I guess that has something to do with the new games themselves and not with this expansion.
At least before Empire, fighting different factions was somewhat different every time =/
You know what's funny? Most battles I've fought, I would probably think the AI is pretty dumb too, because I set up my cannons, my line, my flank protection and my generals to cover it all with their "aura", and then the enemy just marches right in on me and I pulverize them every time.
But, every once in awhile, I fight a battle that is genuinely close, or I am the attacking army, and it's a fight I need to win. Now the tables are turned - he sets up his cannons, his line, his flank protection and his generals, and I'm forced to march to his line while taking a ton of cannon fire. When I get there, my line has been chewed up by cannons and now has to go toe-to-toe with his, probably more fresh, line. Those battles are a difficult win, but not by much.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is; the closer you get to modern day, the harder it is to make a TW game seem "fair". You either make cannons terrible (Empire), or you make cannons too damn good (FOTS). That's the technology of the age, and they rock. It's easy to make a Medieval or Rome or regular Shogun, because the units are pretty straight-forward and the whole thing just requires one great, big charge. With guns, you really start to see the disparity, because you really can't march one army into another army in a game like this and expect it to be fair for everyone.
Would you laugh if I said this game is not entirely historically accurate? Even Empire; I know the whole "gentleman's war" thing where they all lined up and fired at each other, but most armies actually had the good grace to wait for the enemy to set up before they started taking turns murdering eachother. In this game, you don't have to, and that's why it's pretty damn easy. That, and you have a faction with swords trying to out match a faction with guns. We've all seen the movie - it just doesn't happen. I mean, if you actually thought for a moment that a bunch of guys with swords could win a war against a bunch of guys with guns... I don't even know what to say.
Madae is on point. The BAI doesn't seem so dumb when you're attacking a defending AI stack that is fully modern with artillery (which is the position you force the AI into 9 times out of 10). You get messed up pretty bad too. Its the way it should be.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickett's_Charge
Both sides have guns. I actually thought it might be interesting playing as Shogunate and only making melee and bow units ^^
Actually, thinking about it. I will probably just end up spamming unholy amounts of cheap, quick to recruit people with spears and bows.. Oh wait, that's what I did in Shogun 2 as well >_<
Gregoshi
04-01-2012, 19:24
We have passed beyond the "first impressions" stage. I'm going to close this thread. Please feel free to open up new threads for any specific aspects of the game you wish to discuss. :bow:
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