Clan Fame and the # of provinces and battle landmarks

[Maltz]

According to the in-game description, clan fame is influenced by 3 factors:

(1) Daimyo's honor
(2) Battles
(3) Number of provinces

The only in-game indication of the current clan fame is the yellow fame bar in the clan information page.
In my current campaign, I take a screenshot of the clan information page after each likely change of the clan fame, and measure the legnth of the yellow fame bar in terms of pixels. My game resolution is 1680 x 1050. The yellow fame bar has a total length of 168.

After keep track of my clan's fame for a domination campaign, here are my findings:

(1) Daimyo's honor apparently has NO influence on clan fame between Honor = 3 and Honor = 6. So I guess the game description lied on this one.
(2) Battles only matter when we win a "landmark" battle, a battle that leaves a permenant landmark on the map. When I earned a landmark, my fame bar increases by 5 pixels. (out of 168)
(3) Each addtional province gives additional landmark. The extent of increase varies. Here is the plot of the clan fame (in pixels) versus number of provinces.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=5126&d=1334105552

You can see that after getting two provinces, each additional province in average gives 7.04 (7 is a good approximation) extra pixels clan fame. But the initial increase of clan fame is rather large. From 1 province (0 clan fame) to 2 province, the clan fame increased by 18 pixels.

This means that if we avoid getting any landmark, we can capture 22 extra provinces (150 = 7 x 22 + 6), for a total of 23, before reaching Realm Divide.

Here comes a quick reference of number of provinces we can have for number of landmark battles (Domination campaign only):

Provinces/Landmarks

23 / 0
22 / 1
21 / 3
20 / 4
19 / 6
18 / 7
17 / 8
15 / 10

The bottom line: avoid scoring landmarks before RD!

Note: Currently I am not very sure about what conditions are required for a landmark post-battle. Here are some reasonable guess from pooled experiences (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?140645-Your-Post-Battle-Landmark-experiences):

(1) Must be a field battle
(2) Must involve a lot of units. It seems that the subsequent landmarks require more units to participate in the battle than the earlier ones.
(3) Lots of soldiers died - can be a one-sided slaughter, or costly for both.

[Jacobin]

As always very clear.

[feelotraveller]

I came across an old post today about this very subject.

http://forums.totalwar.com/archive/index.php/t-19919.html?

"MikkOwl

06-12-2011, 07:45 AM

Clan Fame

Starts at = 0.
Realm Divide occurs at = 100.

Annex a province = 6 (5 on long, 4 on domination. Unclear if losing provinces lowers fame.)
Vassalize a province = 4
Famous victory = 3 (max 10. This may refer to when monuments are erected instead of 'great victories')
Famous defeat = -3
Daimyo honour = max 10.
Infrastructure = max 10 (probably from legendary buildings).

Higher clan fame makes others much more fearful of you when using the 'threaten' in diplomacy. It also takes into account part of the fame of your military allies."

MikkOwl's info came from the data files (although it was back a bit...). I found it interesting that the figures for provinces and landmark victories match up well but that there were additional factors for Daimyo's honour and infrastructure listed. (Reading at the bottom of the above thread it seems likely that 'infrastructure' figures, assuming that such exists, are unlikely to be from legendary buildings... so maybe castle development?)

I wonder if Daimyo honour is simply so small a movement that it is easy to overlook (like maybe 1 for each honour?). I also wonder, as according to some reports 26 provinces is the base for easy difficulty (domination), if difficulty has a small base effect too?

Losing provinces does indeed lower fame. A final observation to note is that clans starting with two provinces still start from 0 fame. :2thumbsup:

[feelotraveller]

Just to add some idle(?) speculation.

- each point of honour above 1 could be worth 2 (max 10 at 6 honour)
- each level of castle development could be worth 2 (max 10 at citadel)

If fame is not tallied until the first province is taken that would mean 10/100 for any clan with a Daimyo of honour 3 and basic fort.

Perhaps some careful observation could show this all to be rubbish. (Taking Kyoto early, starting with Shimazu, or...)

[Maltz]

Thanks for the information.
I think "annexed provinces" is probably "province count" .This could explain the sudden surge of fame when the first province is taken.
In my current Ikko campaign (legendary, domination), I have to press the break at 21 provinces and 3 landmarks.
But if I get one extra landmark I get Realm Divide.

(21 x 4) + (3 x 3) = 96 EDIT: 93
(21 x 4) + (4 x 3) = 99 EDIT: 96 -> Realm Divide!

So maybe Daimyo's honor does have a very little difference.

The following picture shows the fame bar at 21 provinces and 3 landmarks (looks very full... 99%?)
http://ccc-ccc.ca/tmp/temp_2012/stw2/ikko/ikko_274.jpg

If the above fame bar is indeed 99, then we have an unaccounted 3 fame.
Maybe that's from Daimyo's Honor at 6?
But as I described in the first post, there was no visible change of the fame bar when daimyo's honor increased from 4 to 6.
So maybe it is somthing like this:
Honor = 1, Fame = 1
Honor = 2, Fame = 2
Honor 3 and above, Fame = 3

[feelotraveller]

It is quite possible that you are right and the Daimyo's honour figure was either never implemented or disabled at some stage.

I am not convinced about the starting province(s) counting. Easy to check though - Hojo, for example would have an extra 4 as soon as the first province was captured. I'm a bit lazy, and measuring pixels, that seems like too much of an adventure. :laugh4: But if it does not count then you have extra to account for. I've not played with the Ikki yet (although I got the dlc recently) do they start with one or two provinces? If one that would be 7 unaccounted fame, if two 11. But it still does not add up for both honour and infrastructure... Oh well, things to think about. :bow:

[feelotraveller]

Okay Maltz, you are correct about it being a straight up province count, including the starting province(s). Should have made some tests before I opened my big mouth...

However your maths is a little bit out:
(21 x 4) + (3 x 3) = 93
(21 x 4) + (4 x 3) = 96

This means that there is at least 4 and maybe up to 6 fame unaccounted for by merely landmark battles and provinces in your example (presuming MikkOwl's figures to be solid).

While checking out a Hojo start I found a (barely) noticeable effect of increase of Daimyo honour (screenshots below). Increasing the Daimyo's honour by one (through retainer) made a pixel, and a bit, difference in clan fame. I figure this to be an increase of 1 clan fame out of 100 (given the vagaries of counting pixels) caused by Daimyo going from 3 honour to 4 honour. Note that this increase is not applied immediately. The screenshot shows the case where I selected the retainer on turn 1 and conquered the first additional province on turn 2 versus the case where I made no retainer selection and hence stayed at 3 honour. However if I conquered the province first and then selected the retainer the honour fame change does not show. I presume the change will appear after either end turn, another battle, or another province conquered. I did not follow this further but perhaps this lack of immediacy of honour changes is masking it taking place?

Making some more idle speculation - there are 10 town building chains and 10 max clan fame for infrastructure. Coincidence? I have never built these (game being over) and before realm divide is an even bigger ask, so it might not be surprising that nobody has noticed the effect/triggered realm divide by building. It might also be possible that there is lag in applying the infrastructure clan fame (if such exists) similar to that with Daimyo honour. It could be shown however by deliberately stalling at realm divide and investing in the research and buildings, and then, if necessary, losing and regaining a province (to make sure clan fame is indeed updated).

3 provinces/honour 3 Daimyo

https://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l531/feelotraveller/honourless.jpg

3 provinces/honour 4 Daimyo

https://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l531/feelotraveller/honour.jpg

[Maltz]

Thanks for the correction. At the beginning I used the number that each landmark = 4 fame and only partially corrected the calculation.
Then maybe each Honor is 1 point of fame? And it is only applied correctly to the fame bar after the player loads a save/get another province/have another battle?