Rome 2 Tips and un-/under-documented features

[quadalpha]

Hopefully people can add to these as they come up:

- When you unlock new units, you can upgrade existing units by selecting it and clicking the 'retrain' button. This will upgrade, for example, hastati to legionaries and principes/triarii to veteran legionaries. (Note that you might want to keep the triarii, since legionaries are sword-armed and not spearmen.) This costs 100 per unit.

- You can swap out retainers/items for your characters. Pay attention that some of these grant faction-wide bonuses (I think).

- What 'authority', 'cunning', and 'zeal' do for generals and characters is explained in mouseover text under their portraits when selected in campaign map (and nowhere else).

- If a city you want to take is blockaded by another faction (so you can't attack it), move your army away to make the defenders more likely to sally out and break the blockade.

[Papewaio]

As Rome you start with Legionaries use them!

[Barkhorn1x]

As Rome you start with Legionaries use them!

Brilliant insight I tell you! :yes:

[Papewaio]

It is once you realize that your starting Admiral has 120 Assault Marines er Legionaires that are your most mobile and best troops by far.

[Quillan]

CTRL plus the left and right arrow keys make the unit turn left or right. Found that by accident earlier. CTRL plus the up or down arrows are supposed to increase or decrease unit width, but at least for me only increased it.

The benefits of having loads of excess food are not nearly as good as they were in Shogun 2, but don't get into a food shortage. It's nasty.

Before laying siege to a city, have a spy try to sabotage it by poisoning the wells. If successful, it'll damage every unit (sometimes severely) that is in the city, both garrisoned army and the free defending troops.

A champion doing an assault patrol before a battle can knock the bejesus out of a tough enemy unit. Between one sabotage and an assault patrol I managed to reduce a Helvetii noble cavalry general from 80 to 18 men before the battle began.

Speaking of champions, park one in your main armies doing military training. I have two armies of rank 6-9 troops just from champion training.

[quadalpha]

I think truces after ceasefires are back ... except now it doesn't tell you when you declare war.

Edit: Or maybe not. I have no idea now. But it does seem that your diplomatic reputation is now tracked individually for each faction.

[CaptainCrunch]

... But it does seem that your diplomatic reputation is now tracked individually for each faction.

It is, according to the printed manual.

"Every decision, every treaty made and broken, every army that pillages foreign land without consent, will be remembered when you approach another faction with diplomacy in mind. All factions will be aware of your past treatment of others, particularly their own allies. They'll assess your reputation and treat your approaches accordingly, meeting your requests as befits their opinions of you."

[quadalpha]

It is, according to the printed manual.

"Every decision, every treaty made and broken, every army that pillages foreign land without consent, will be remembered when you approach another faction with diplomacy in mind. All factions will be aware of your past treatment of others, particularly their own allies. They'll assess your reputation and treat your approaches accordingly, meeting your requests as befits their opinions of you."

That sounds like it's talking about opinion rather than reputation, which is (or ought to be) a modifier independent of opinion, like in S2.

[Wilbo]

Siege weapons are excellent at killing enemy troops before an assault. When laying siege to Syracuse, a unit of Roman Ballista accurately killed 521 enemies before I entered the city. Normal shot seems to cause more casualties than exploding shot. Scorpions are also very effective, but need a clear shot.

[nearchos]

[QUOTE=quadalpha;2053546257]Hopefully people can add to these as they come up:

- You can swap out retainers/items for your characters. Pay attention that some of these grant faction-wide bonuses (I think).

- What 'authority', 'cunning', and 'zeal' do for generals and characters is explained in mouseover text under their portraits when selected in campaign map (and nowhere else).
/QUOTE]
Retainers and items, are these the household retainers that become available from time to time?? And what about the items you mentioned?
I am still trying to anderstand how this character system works, with the bigest problem being, no matter how athoritative or cuning are the members of the family, the other families are doing whatever they want and their popularity is allways better than mine.

[Barkhorn1x]

It is once you realize that your starting Admiral has 120 Assault Marines er Legionaires that are your most mobile and best troops by far.

Well, you didn't say that the first time now did you?

[Jacque Schtrapp]

Diplomacy really works. You may find it hard to make allies, but don't hesitate to give or ask for military access from a faction you have good relations with. At 84 BC in my Roman campaign and I have two allies and a dozen factions with military access. I have lots of armies constantly moving through my territory and haven't had anyone backstab me. In fact, those armies have come in handy helping out with slave revolts and even non allies with military access will still fight on your side if they are nearby when you attack or are attacked by an enemy.

Don't forget to promote your generals/admirals as they rank up. Use the "Secure Promotion" option on the family management screen as these promotions often come with faction wide bonuses.

Stay on the roads in the desert or your troops will die quickly.

Rotate your edicts as needed. They can boost happiness or income quite nicely.

Monitor your provincial happiness and what you are choosing to build. Many higher building upgrades come with massive public order hits. It's quite easy to build yourself into constant revolts and it's very time consuming to correct the situation. I did this and it took 50 turns, where Rome was completely at peace, yet had to keep all of its armies at home to deal with 1-2 revolts per turns.

[quadalpha]

The end-of-turn hunt for that general/agent you apparently haven't promoted is solved by the 'Forces' panel (one of the four buttons above minimap).

[hoom]

Ctrl + g = locked group which will maintain unit order & formation when moved.

[Hooahguy]

Diplomacy really works. You may find it hard to make allies, but don't hesitate to give or ask for military access from a faction you have good relations with. At 84 BC in my Roman campaign and I have two allies and a dozen factions with military access. I have lots of armies constantly moving through my territory and haven't had anyone backstab me. In fact, those armies have come in handy helping out with slave revolts and even non allies with military access will still fight on your side if they are nearby when you attack or are attacked by an enemy.

Really? Ive been trying for many turns to get trade agreements with my neighbors but no luck, even with the ones I have good standing with.

[Jacque Schtrapp]

Really? Ive been trying for many turns to get trade agreements with my neighbors but no luck, even with the ones I have good standing with.

Admittedly, diplomacy is VERY slow to develop, but you will start getting offers soon. One thing I did that seems to speed the process up, is to take a fleet and sail it along the coastline of the Med, revealing factions as you go. Then, choose factions far away that you are unlikely to go to war with any time soon, and offer them non aggression pacts. It's rather like asking a bank for a loan, you have to have an established credit history before they'll risk loaning to you. The same is true with Rome II factions, you have to have some calculable interactions with other factions before the trade agreements come rolling in.

You will also likely be asked to pay for your initial trade agreements and non aggression pacts. Unfortunately, this seems to be the cost of establishing diplomacy in Rome II.

---

Another feature people may not have noticed yet, is that you can use the arrow keys to move a ghostly image of your selected troop(s) and they will move to that exact location in the exact formation in which you move them. Be careful though, they will start moving the very moment you take your finger off the key.

[quadalpha]

The start of turn notification system is wonky, at best. It gets confused if you ever (I think) use the zoom to location button and forgets to display some of the notifications but they still show as 'read' in the info panel. Best to check through them yourself.

[Barkhorn1x]

Agents can sail across the sea too! Just like armies. They get their own little boat icon.

[Lord of the Isles]

Unit Buffs and the Workshop/TrainingCamp Buildings

IIRC these are the Roman & Hellenic names - I haven't played other factions yet and their names for these may be different. Some buffs seem to be available to any of your factions units that move into the Province that contains the buildings (Workshop line). Others only seem to be given at the time of unit recruitment (Training Camp line). The first applies even if they aren't your faction's buildings - as Rome I conquered a barbarian region (Tolosa in Provincia IIRC) and was able to Upgrade to Weapons Level II from the structure there. BTW, to upgrade, you will see a gold arrow at the top of the unit card. Click on the card and a menu appears above it with an Upgrade command available (at normal times, only the Disband command is selectable in this menu).

How does this affect you? Your Workshop line buildings (weapons buffs/armour & shield buffs/etc) can be in any province you like and can be built in the provincial city or in towns. To spread Squalor problems more evenly, these should not be in your main troop producing province. Once units are recruited, just have them visit your Workshop province(s) for buffs.

Your main troop producing province should contain the infantry barracks and one or more (according to squalor pressures) Training Camp line buildings. The buffs from these only seem to be given at recruitment, hence why you want them in the same province. The barrack building can be in any city or town (so I make it a town) but the Training Camp line can only be built in provincial cities.

With a big enough empire (and if you are as obsessed with maximising outcomes as I am!) you can add missile producing barracks & training camp combinations and cavalry & their appropriate training camp buildings too - so far I have only enough to max out my melee infantry (Hoplites). But remember that Workshops can be anywhere but Training Camps have to be where recruitment takes place.

Other related stuff: I'm not sure yet about Siege Engines and the Workshop line building for them - am guessing that they can be recruited then moved and buffed but haven't tried it. As for ships - as far as I can tell, they can only be buffed with updated Hull Levels (from either their recruiting buildings Military Wharf and upwards or from a Shipwright line building of a higher level than they got recruited from. Anyone found any other ship buffs? I don't think that land unit structures affect ships but I could be wrong. Of course, I could be wrong about anything - I grudge taking too long out of playing to run experiments for too long ~:)

[Lord of the Isles]

Payments in the Diplomacy screen

Weirdly, you cannot manually type in an amount of money in the Payments box (no doubt this will be fixed in a patch sometime). The decrease/increase arrows change the amount of your offer by 10% of your current treasury, clearly a daft system since you can take 120 turns to amass 200,000 coins and then be forced to offer another faction a minimum of 20,000 coins in a single payment.

To get round this: unless you are very unlucky, the other faction will have a different size Treasury to yours. When you select 'Demand' instead of 'Offer', the arrows will now decrease/increase the amount in the box by 10% of their Treasury. By repeated increases and decreases, with judicious swapping between 'Offer' & 'Demand' you can get the final amount to something suitable. Then finally select 'Offer' or 'Demand' as you intended and Accept to get back to the main screen.

[Sp4]

Can anyone point me to a list as to what the different traits do for agents?

I mean things like zeal, authority and such. I know for generals, zeal means melee attack (for all units under him), authority is morale and cunning is melee defense.

Thanks in advance.

[quadalpha]

Can anyone point me to a list as to what the different traits do for agents?

I mean things like zeal, authority and such. I know for generals, zeal means melee attack (for all units under him), authority is morale and cunning is melee defense.

Thanks in advance.


- What 'authority', 'cunning', and 'zeal' do for generals and characters is explained in mouseover text under their portraits when selected in campaign map (and nowhere else).

Authority: cost of agent actions
Cunning: line of sight
Zeal: chance of wounding an enemy in self-defence

The default value is 3, with bonuses for higher values and penalties for lower.

All of them also affect chance of success for agent actions.

[jbillybrack]

While on the topic of agents, watch out for the champion line, and their assault patrol ability (as mentioned above). I have had many elephants killed off between battles, with the AI safely removing my trump card. And again, speaking of, elephants are way overpowered.... duh!

Again with the agents, you can now just disband an agent you don't want (or if you have one that happens to be several turns away from where you need him).

[Sp4]

Once you put your army into a formation (or any number of units really), you can select them and then hold down the mouse button (left) on one of them, until it changes into a cross shaped button, which you can then move the entire formation with, wherever you want, without it changing facing. To change the facing, hold down control and move your mouse.

Also, I found out that all these trait things are explained in the encyclopedia but it takes a bit of digging/reading.

[Sigurd]

Use flame(ing) javelins against elephants.
A single unit of Roman Velites eradicated a rebel Carthaginian elephant unit in seconds when I helped my good friend Carthage reclaiming his lost settlement.

[Myth]

Payments in the Diplomacy screen

Weirdly, you cannot manually type in an amount of money in the Payments box (no doubt this will be fixed in a patch sometime). The decrease/increase arrows change the amount of your offer by 10% of your current treasury, clearly a daft system since you can take 120 turns to amass 200,000 coins and then be forced to offer another faction a minimum of 20,000 coins in a single payment.

To get round this: unless you are very unlucky, the other faction will have a different size Treasury to yours. When you select 'Demand' instead of 'Offer', the arrows will now decrease/increase the amount in the box by 10% of their Treasury. By repeated increases and decreases, with judicious swapping between 'Offer' & 'Demand' you can get the final amount to something suitable. Then finally select 'Offer' or 'Demand' as you intended and Accept to get back to the main screen.

So basicaly by use of a diplomat one can see the exact treasury amount of an enemy faction? Does the game have a faction rankings scroll as well? This would seriously impede hotseat play (if at all possible). Keeping tabs on enemy gold levels and production will tell you when they're gearing for war.

[Lord of the Isles]

So basicaly by use of a diplomat one can see the exact treasury amount of an enemy faction? Does the game have a faction rankings scroll as well? This would seriously impede hotseat play (if at all possible). Keeping tabs on enemy gold levels and production will tell you when they're gearing for war.

That's right. At least, you can see the treasury any other faction has but no info about number of regions (though you can find that out on the Diplomacy map if you have explored that area), nor about what they are producing, what military they have, etc. The main Diplomacy screen does show a map and you can see, for any faction you have encountered, who their allies, neutrals and at-war opponents are. The last bit of info you can get is clicking on a region settlement owned by another faction when sometimes (may have to be bordering you or you have an agent close to it?) it shows you the settlement's buildings.

Edit: no faction ranking list (that I have found).

[Sp4]

This may be pretty obvious but it only just occured to me... you can sally out and break a siege with only your garrison and you don't need to have an army sitting in the town. :S

[benjywa]

Things I would tell myself if I could go back in time 7 days:

Italics are more on thread

Characters
Champions are ace: chuck one in any main army you roll with asap
The character trees are deceptive - look them up in the encyclopedia and decide how you want to proceed
Using them is expensive - chuck spares in an army to keep them leveling when not needed
Using them is expensive - don't use them until you are sure you shouldn't be spending the cash elsewhere (dear god - the number of times I have poisoned a well only to find I should have ungraded a barracks!)

Generals
While its temping to go for bonus' pick someone in your family if possible
Do not adopt young new generals into your family - they will get awful traits (-1 gravita per turn! it goes to their head?) wait until they have 3 traits and then adopt them
Try not to make a general from a different house your main one - they will get awesomeness power which isn't good
Take a city and scatter their forces rather than battle piecemeal if at all possible - they will then come back in dribs and drabs and you can farm for levels for the 2-3 turns it takes for your army to recover

Armies
Zerg ftw - as pretty as it is to leave reserve armies and attack on multiple fronts - early game you are better making a mega army and rolling them
Don't be afraid to encircle/ siege even if you are 33% to win. The enemy may move units, you can always retreat if you don't like the look of it.

Cities
Carful you don't take cities with duplicated or unuseable buildings that you forget about
Do not expand cities unless you can afford a building (slums suck)

Trade
Sucks initially - as you take more provinces and upgrade they will bang your door down for agreements -
1 - make sure you check the amount and balance that with any cash demands - single city owner asking for 10x the turn trade up front = no
2 - if you knock someone back they usually/ may come back asking for less cash in a couple of turns
3 - oh and by the way you need sa capital to trade at all - sparta doesn't count :(

General
NEVER run out of food - its awful - everything sucks really badly.
try to keep over 1000 (750 min) per turn or you will stall and lose out massively on progress.
Look at your tech tree - some factions have good unit

[Hooahguy]

try to keep over 1000 (750 min) per turn or you will stall and lose out massively on progress.

Do you mean income per turn?

Also I wish I knew what I know now when starting my campaign. My faction leader only has 60 gravitas while my main rival, a general named Karl, has a gravitas of 80 and rising (+2 per turn). I know hes a threat, but how much of a threat?

[Stuie]

Things that might be obvious or explained in the prologue (which I skipped) but I only discovered after hours of play:

Tooltips - the panel to the left has tooltips if you mouse over most icons. When presented with three agents to hire, I didn't realize there was anything to differentiate them; then I discovered mousing over an icon on the info panel for each one showed me exactly what traits and associated bonuses they had. Same thing with armies: all active effects are shown when you mouse over the icons in the info panel.

Province Details tab - another easy to miss info panel, the Province Details tab shows you a breakdown of various effects influencing income, unrest, culture etc. along with projected values. Good stuff to know when planning builds.

[benjywa]

afternoon chap.

700 - 1000 per turn is what I aim for. Not Romans because they start with loads of towns but with Iceni and sparta (starting with just 1) I tried to spend down to 1000per turn then go killing when I hit that mark. This seems to keep in good stead until I was up and running with trade agreements and a few provinces when Iit was more like 2kp/t just because I had x4 the income and only needed x2 the men to keep on trucking

I haven't had gravitas issues yet, you can't control the first ones you get so don't sweat it. I would like to know the answer to this too, I have asked for definitive answer but not found anything yet. From playing I have the following assumptions but would like them verifying

1 - leaving you faction leader in the pool seems to give decent + gravitas return
2 - having family member go killing in your main army means levels and + gravitas
3 - doing the same as 2 with other families isn't a great idea
4 - not using any other families is a non starter - they get grumpy and it gives you a -gravita penalty

So how I am rolling at the moment:
youngest family member is main general going out getting levels
trying to put competing family members in small homebound reserve forces so they are in armies but not fighting
recruiting young generals to go fighting and adopting them when they are up and running and have 3 traits

[phred]

You can load armies onto fleets like in previous games. (you may need a large enough fleet, but you don't need a one-to-one army/navy unit ratio)
Saves you the trouble of moving the fleet and the transports separately.
In a naval battle the transports show up as reinforcements.

Naval artillery is great for taking out walls in those coastal provincial capitals.
I loaded my army onto a fleet and had lots of fun taking Alexandria.

[benjywa]

Up to date additions to under documented things

1 - when you take a town the garison slowly builds up over 4-5 turns, highlight the picture of a castle under the relevent town in the province screen and it will say (plebs 80/160) etc. If there are enemies around you may want to sit in a city for a turn or 3.
2 - Naval battles are a joke - essentially ramming wins - 3 small 67p/t upkeep ships will kill 1 267p/t assult legionaires ship, you will lose whichever they board but 2-3 rams and its dead
3 - weak AI factions will try and defensive ally you - make sure you look at their enemies before you accept!
4 - when you caharcter fails but hinders the enemy agent it means they lose their next turn
5 - still struggling to find a decent use for dignataries other than helping convert population - they seem to suck
6 - noob error - I had 0 happiness per turn so didn't upgrade towns.... It was 0 because i was at +100 total and it doesn't show the +10 per turn once you get to +100. lost a lot of turns from that

Rome units wise
war dogs are amazing vs ai and cheap unkeep - they will slaughter any unarmoured unit which is always what they lead with - big battle last night (20 vs 20 I had 0 cav and he had 4 heavy cav + general) I had 2 dogs units kill over 300 slingers and pull all kinds of units out of the line vs gauls

Gladiators - I have new found love for the swordsmen - same battle last night I had a couple of units as a hangover from an emergency recruit from earler in the game

Javelins Javelins
dogs dogs dogs
spears legion legion legion spears
glads and couple of balista

as soon as I realised AI was holding cav back for flanks and back and I was facing a melee line the 2 units of gladiators ran through the legions and took a unit each... then another each and still had 50% left when I won

[Spoonska]

5 - still struggling to find a decent use for dignataries other than helping convert population - they seem to suck



Here are their bonuses excluding traits, and typical manipulate , assassinate, demoralize stuff:

I'll break it down. All % or +/- will be at rank 3 (highest rank).

Deployed in your territory

Cultural Conversion +9 / +18 (2 different skills one in the authority tree, the other in zeal. This also works in enemy territories)
+15% tax rate to local province (When Deployed)



In your army

-18 % Upkeep Cost on Military
+18 % Movement Range
They also give you a little defense versus enemy agents



Deployed in the enemy territory

-15 % Tax Rate
+ 90% public order penalty due to local presence of foreign authority
- 30% Wealth from all commerce buildings



My most common use is to deploy them in my highest grossing provinces for the extra tax. They usually end up with traits that will give bonuses to public order. After that, I usually go for evading enemy agents, and assassination since it's built into the "Politics" talent.


Edit: Also a cool thing I don't see mentioned yet. By way of manipulation you can have more than the maximum allowed agents. Dignitaries are the "Masters of Manipulation" and sort of the anti-champion. Other factions agents will also sometimes have specific bonuses that come from their faction.

[phred]

Here are their bonuses excluding traits, and typical manipulate , assassinate, demoralize stuff:

I'll break it down. All % or +/- will be at rank 3 (highest rank).

Deployed in your territory

Cultural Conversion +9 / +18 (2 different skills one in the authority tree, the other in zeal. This also works in enemy territories)
+15% tax rate to local province (When Deployed)



In your army

-18 % Upkeep Cost on Military
+18 % Movement Range
They also give you a little defense versus enemy agents



Deployed in the enemy territory

-15 % Tax Rate
+ 90% public order penalty due to local presence of foreign authority
- 30% Wealth from all commerce buildings



My most common use is to deploy them in my highest grossing provinces for the extra tax. They usually end up with traits that will give bonuses to public order. After that, I usually go for evading enemy agents, and assassination since it's built into the "Politics" talent.

they can also persuade an enemy agent to your side. You can actually exceed the agent number limits.
I have 4 military agents but my limit is 3.

[CaptainCrunch]

they can also persuade an enemy agent to your side. You can actually exceed the agent number limits.
I have 4 military agents but my limit is 3.

I was wondering whether or not that was the case, cuz I haven't been able to do it when I'm at the limit even when my chance of success is 80%+. Thanks for clearing it up.

I also wanna mention that when you Loot a captured settlement, as opposed to Occupy or Raze, the slave populations in your provinces increases by as much as 30%. Since I don't see population totals tracked anywhere in-game this may have to do with population surplus? Not sure what affects this. It is mentioned in the Encyclopaedia, but no details as to specifics.

[phred]

I was wondering whether or not that was the case, cuz I haven't been able to do it when I'm at the limit even when my chance of success is 80%+. Thanks for clearing it up.


If I have the same odds for assassinating and persuading, I feel as though I have a much better chance to succeed with the assassination than persuade them to join my side.
But that's purely anecdotal - I haven't tried tracking actual occurrences.

[BroskiDerpman]

Usually which one do you use more? From the info above and from my previous experience it seems assassinating is usually the preferred method.

[Sp4]

I like converting them. I only ever assassinate faction members.

Also on the point of dignitaries sucking... yeah there's a little too much they are able to do and be helpful with for them deserve to be called sucking =P They can help with public order, conversion, tax rate and that's only the sort of things they can do at home =P

[CaptainCrunch]

Usually which one do you use more? From the info above and from my previous experience it seems assassinating is usually the preferred method.

As for myself, under normal conditions I'd prefer assassination cuz if successful that stops the AI from deploying an agent on another mission for at least 2 turns (since they can't be deployed when recruited), and when they do of course it'll be minus any abilities their previous agent managed to acquire. However, persuading them to your cause is really useful, especially in the early game, since you only have a single spy to work with. I've never been able to pull that off though even when the chances are high :confused:

There's also the consideration that if an agent is susceptible to persuasion once, they might be vulnerable to it again when working for you. Can a rat ever be trusted?

[phred]

Usually which one do you use more? From the info above and from my previous experience it seems assassinating is usually the preferred method.

I tried persuading and it often didn't work, and then just switched to assassination, which "seems" to work more. But assassination often just wounds someone and takes them off the map for a short period, so I could just be imagining more successes with assassination.
I think it was just last night or the night before that I tried persuading on a whim and it gave me military adviser over my limit.

Has anyone been using the agents to start rebellions?
There are a couple of regions I'd like to take without starting another war.
It was a bit overpowered in Shogun II (but fun).

[BroskiDerpman]

RoTS agents were worth several elite armies if they're leveled up. (A bit weaker in Sengoku but still powerful somewhat)

[Spoonska]

Has anyone been using the agents to start rebellions?


Yes, constantly. I use the spy's that don't start off with wealth bonuses to rough up nearby enemies, and territories. Fully talented a spy will drop public order by 60 I think ? You will get negative diplomacy for agent actions against the nation, but I've never seen the penalty go past 15. Once the revolt happens its a bit of a coin toss if it will work out. On the first turn of a revolt they will only have 1 unit the General. Every turn after that they slowly start to build. Sometimes the AI will will act and snuff it out, sometimes the AI doesn't have an army in sight and it works out. Then you're okay to steam roll it. A good example of a place to use this is during a Sparta Campaign since going to war with Athens might not be something you want to do for your province capital.


And also to tack on to this tip.


they can also persuade an enemy agent to your side. You can actually exceed the agent number limits.
I have 4 military agents but my limit is 3.

Enemy agents sometimes have faction (maybe culture) bonuses that are unique to them. There's one of the celtic tribes (I think) that will give you increased charge bonus from a champion. When you convert them you get that unique bonus not. Not forever though , just as long as that agent is alive.

[CaptainCrunch]

...Has anyone been using the agents to start rebellions?
There are a couple of regions I'd like to take without starting another war...

I was working on this very thing when my best agent kicked it from old age. Now I gotta work with a couple of rookies, I'll report if it goes well. There's a huge flashpoint brewing in my campaign that would literally draw 5 factions into war... and I'd like to engineer it :sneaky:

[Quillan]

I do not know if other factions have access to these buildings, but at least as Rome there's one of the aqueduct line that gives extra agent levels to all agents recruited in the city. At the moment I have two of them in different regions, and those cities are where I get all my agents now. As it stands I'm getting rank 3 agents out of the gate, and in the campaign I'm closing in on being able to recruit rank 4 spies and dignitaries with rank 5 champions (I built the Colosseum).

[Barkhorn1x]

I built the Colosseum.

Good man.

[Sp4]

I haven't used agents to make rebellions yet, or let's say I tried but didn't see any results. I was sort of trying to do it like in Shogun, where you make rebellions and then go in with your army to take regions without officially declaring a war but so far, that has not worked for me yet. I did go and conquer a few towns where I tried to make a rebellion before and suddenly had them rebel while I was there, which was a little amusing. It made my conquest of Italy a little more exciting, since the rebels put up more of a fight than the Romans >_>

[HopAlongBunny]

Is it still possible to "stun lock" your neighbours with agent actions?
In S2 you could render opponents powerless with a combination of sabotage and "sales" of access.

[VAE VICTUS]

Does the research upgrade from temples of minerva and libraries only count once or do the bonuses add up when more are built? Sorry if this is in the wrong area, haven't seen it addressed yet. Thanks.

[VAE VICTUS]

Does the research upgrade from temples of minerva and libraries only count once or do the bonuses add up when more are built? Sorry if this is in the wrong area, haven't seen it addressed yet. Thanks.

[Quillan]

Does the research upgrade from temples of minerva and libraries only count once or do the bonuses add up when more are built? Sorry if this is in the wrong area, haven't seen it addressed yet. Thanks.

They add. You can't have more than one in the same city, but you can build multiples in different cities/provinces, and the bonuses all add together. I think I'm about 176% research speed currently (two scriptorums, one archive, several Minerva shrines and one or two bonus traits).

[ReluctantSamurai]

An interesting read on what the parameters for difficulty setting are:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?617976-Hard-Empirical-Data-On-The-Differences-Between-Campaign-Difficulties-Updated-9-11-13

[Myth]

Is it still possible to "stun lock" your neighbours with agent actions?
In S2 you could render opponents powerless with a combination of sabotage and "sales" of access.

I could stunlock enemy stacsk with my awesome ninja, I remmeber that. But it wa sexpensive and SII's economy isn't designed to spiral out of control. In Rome II money is not such a big issue so one could probably stalemate the enmy with such action. Plus, there is a limit to the number armies a faction gets, so it's entirely possible.

[Bramborough]

An interesting read on what the parameters for difficulty setting are:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?617976-Hard-Empirical-Data-On-The-Differences-Between-Campaign-Difficulties-Updated-9-11-13

Good stuff, thx for link. Kinda surprising to me, the differences between difficulty levels are apparently quite mild, and in secondary areas. Impacts agent actions more than anything else. Doesn't seem to affect one's own economy very much. The AI factions obviously get some pretty good bonuses on higher difficulty levels, particularly in allowing the build of more (or rather, larger) armies...but then the AI is so wonky in using those armies, it's not a big deal. What the heck, I might try Legendary for my next campaign.

[hoom]

People have said 'put Champion in your main armies' but not why: Its because the Champion will train your troops, can be a level or two per turn -> quickly makes that army a powerful veteran force.

[Hooahguy]

People have said 'put Champion in your main armies' but not why: Its because the Champion will train your troops, can be a level or two per turn -> quickly makes that army a powerful veteran force.
Just to echo this point, putting a champion in my main force brought everyone up to 3 gold chevrons very quickly. Seems kinda cheap to me, but oh well.

[Myth]

Also, the champion unit itself will level up and you can take a skill that improves movement points WHILE he trains your army.

[FesterShinetop]

Saw this in the loading text today:
You can set "flag-points" (don't remember what they actually called it) on the campaign map with shift+ F9-F12. After that you can jump to those points using the appropriate F-key. You can not delete these points but you can overwrite them.

Don't know if this is something new but I never knew this...

[Quillan]

Saw this in the loading text today:
You can set "flag-points" (don't remember what they actually called it) on the campaign map with shift+ F9-F12. After that you can jump to those points using the appropriate F-key. You can not delete these points but you can overwrite them.

Don't know if this is something new but I never knew this...
It was in Shogun 2. I learned it the same way there, from a tip on a loading screen.

[Oaty]

afternoon chap.



I haven't had gravitas issues yet, you can't control the first ones you get so don't sweat it. I would like to know the answer to this too, I have asked for definitive answer but not found anything yet. From playing I have the following assumptions but would like them verifying

1 - leaving you faction leader in the pool seems to give decent + gravitas return
2 - having family member go killing in your main army means levels and + gravitas
3 - doing the same as 2 with other families isn't a great idea
4 - not using any other families is a non starter - they get grumpy and it gives you a -gravita penalty

So how I am rolling at the moment:
youngest family member is main general going out getting levels
trying to put competing family members in small homebound reserve forces so they are in armies but not fighting
recruiting young generals to go fighting and adopting them when they are up and running and have 3 traits

Funny thing is I have a 60% rating with the senate, playing as Rome. I wanted to put someone from my faction in the lead army but the game doesnt always show where the army is at where u are replacing the general, so I was never sure which army was getting what. I now know you have to remember the army by name to know which is the lead army. Plus I didnt pull any tricks on the other family memebers. Where as the other families are pulling dirty tricks on me all the time. For whatever reason I seem to be getting a lot of gravitas!

It isnt really a trick but coincidence, where a faction is at war with the same faction you are. What happens even if you don't have any treaties going on, the AI will attack and the other faction will join you in the battle if they are within reenfocment range. Quite nice if you aske me. I think the AI can opt out but I'm guessing because it was a weak faction it did it to try to get good terms with me. So I'm guessing you could strategiacally park an army near another AI army and double team the enemy. How it happened for me was there was an army of a neutral faction on ships next to one of my cities and the opposing faction attacked my city and the rest is history.

[Bramborough]

Also, the champion unit itself will level up and you can take a skill that improves movement points WHILE he trains your army.

Yeah, and this is actually true of all one's agents.

A rather passive approach to using agents, but nonetheless effective, is to just stick ALL of them in your armies.

PROS:
- Keeps them all employed every turn, at no cost to treasury.
- Keeps them "auto-leveling" in skills.
- Every army always has an agent available if one does want to pull them out for a turn and execute a specific action vs enemy.
- Your general/army benefits from their passive traits...almost as if the general has an extra "super household member" slot.

CONS:
- Skill-ups take several turns, and therefore an agent levels slower than if performing successful actions several turns in a row.
- Tends to diffuse agents across the map, and able to concentrate for multiple agent actions only in areas where your armies themselves are somewhat concentrated.
- Obviously, lessens agents' independence and range.

[Sp4]

Incase anyone is still wondering (I only just now found out =X)

Normal shot for ballistae is better at killing lots of stuff quickly as everything that is touched by the rocks they fling at people, dies. Literally everyone who gets knocked over by a normal shot stays on the ground. I am not sure if this is supposed to work that way because I have seen explosive shot land in the middle of a unit of heavy infantry, throwing them all around and making them fly everywhere just so everyone could get up and continue walking.

I am not sure about the advantages of using explosive ammo. I guess it has more of a morale effect, allowing you to use artillery as more of a close fire support for your own infantry without risking too many deaths from friendly fire but I am not totally certain on that. The casualties from explosive ammo are a lot lower than from standard shots. Either way, I wouldn't really use them to shoot at things that are close to your own units.

[TarheelDan]

Sorry if these have been posted already:

Campaign:
It doesn't work well to try to have Tier 3 or 4 buildings in all of your settlements as these can be very costly in terms of squalor, food, or public order. Since food can be imported from other provinces, specialization by province is possible e.g. military, financial, etc. The beta 3 patch reduced some of the higher-level building penalties somewhat.

The strategic overview also has overlay toggle buttons to see: population growth, wealth, public order

If a third party is blocking the port of one of the enemy settlements you wish to take, you can place your army in the combat zone and wait for the third party to initiate an assault. Then just decline to take part. The third party is defeated and runs off and you can assault the settlement.

Great way to move troops really far: Have a forced march "relay" with your generals. One with bunch of troops force marches to merge with another general that has no or little troops. He takes them the rest of the way.

Battle:

Fun: hitting "Insert" or clicking the cinematic camera button after selecting a siege weapon allows you to control its shooting personally.

The "N" key is by default how you zoom from far away and how people are able to see the zombie faces. Doesn't work in cinematic mode, it kicks you out of cinematic mode.

[Bramborough]

Great way to move troops really far: Have a forced march "relay" with your generals. One with bunch of troops force marches to merge with another general that has no or little troops. He takes them the rest of the way.


Nice find, I hadn't caught on to this...probably because I don't have any generals sitting on the map without troops. I could see where this could be useful, however, in getting some new troops from one's home army-production province up to the front. That said, I gotta say this strikes me as a bit of an exploitable bug, and obviously shouldn't be in the game.

[TarheelDan]

Nice find, I hadn't caught on to this...probably because I don't have any generals sitting on the map without troops. I could see where this could be useful, however, in getting some new troops from one's home army-production province up to the front. That said, I gotta say this strikes me as a bit of an exploitable bug, and obviously shouldn't be in the game.

Very true! I remember that movement points for any army used to be limited to the unit within the army with the minimum number of movement points. Since individual units no longer have movement points, only generals...

Now that you point this out, I see it would be more sporting to refrain.

[Merak]

if you use the dignitaries ability Cultural Propaganda ( http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/manual/single-player/0049_enc_page_campaign_play_characters_agents_dignitaries#enc_text_characters_agents_dignitaries_cor ruption ) the cultural penalty when taking over the settlement will be less, if not doing this the penalty when taking over a settlement is at normal differculty -15 depending a lot of things i dont understand it can go down alot most of the time i have it down to -9 in stability but one settlement i got it down to -3 after 2 or 3 successes (my army had a way to go before taking the setlement and i had my dignitary already there leveled upp only on zeal)

i will check if i can ad some pictures for a better explanation but i hope you guys understand, (not at hope right now)

the first screenshot is without the dignitaries notice the cultural differences is at -14
http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/921274371122226701/088DBBCFDCD8762EDD75D8452BC416F7F2571DA5/

And in this it is at -8
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/921274371122223155/894215B99C08233EAA36AE5CB43C27E3D2D5754C/

might be small but every bit help for you guys on harder difficulties then me :)

[Forward Observer]

Here's a little graphical option detail that maybe some have overlooked. I know I didn't understand what it did until I made the following comparisons by pausing the game and changing the options back and forth--then stopping to take a shot of each setting.

This has to do with the unit detail option in the graphics setting. The tool tip in game say that it determines the amount of detail of units, which is misleading.

See the shots below

The shot at the top is on the "low" unit detail setting while the shot below it is on the "extreme" unit detail setting. You will notice that there is absolutely no difference in the detail of the units in the foreground. However, if you look at the units in the distance you will see a difference. Sorry, but I had to reduce these pictures quite a bit to get both shots together.

https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/forcomparisonunitdetail_zps7e037fae.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/forward_observer/media/forcomparisonunitdetail_zps7e037fae.jpg.html)


Anyway the point is that changes in the unit detail setting have no effect on the detail of the units that are in the foreground. The effect has to do with the 3D draw distance of the units further away. What it really determines is at what point the 3D units are changed to 2D sprites. I'm guessing that the last two or three centuries (units) are all 2D sprites

Even though I have a beefy PC, by changing this setting to very high (below Ultra and Extreme) I was able to substantially increase frame rates with no real discernible decrease in how the game looks during a battle. One might be able to really notice it if they were playing the game on a large screen TV, but I have a 24 inch IPS monitor and can hardly tell the difference between the settings.

It's worth playing with just to see if it get you a few more frame rates.

Cheers

[Sp4]

As far as I know, reducing the unit detail settings to anything below very high also makes corpses disappear at some point ^^

[Forward Observer]

As far as I know, reducing the unit detail settings to anything below very high also makes corpses disappear at some point ^^

That's possible, but since I am using "very high" I wouldn't have noticed it and of course I did this test in a static mode prior to any battle.

Cheers

[Quillan]

I am not certain anymore that the campaign has a time limit at all. The original Rome would end in 14 AD. So far, I've heard speculation that the game would end at 0 BC, 14 AD, or 24 AD (300 turns from campaign start). However, I've been dragging one out just to see if this is the case (and also to see if it's possible to research all technologies), and at 28 AD the game is still going without a message and with victory still listed as possible.

[Fridgebadger]

I'm sure I read somewhere, possibly in the pdf manual, that there is no end date for the campaign. It also doesn't list an end date in the ultimate victory conditions, so I'm pretty sure there's no time limit.

[BroskiDerpman]

Yup no time limit, official end date for cool events and such is 28 AD: 300 turns.

In my Sekigahara campaign 4tpy Domination till 1700 owning 40 provinces; it's only 436 turns till you loose though it's easier compared to vanilla so far but it's still a enjoyable experience.

[phred]

Here's something that I don't think is documented.

An AI agent poisoned my army in the field and that army started the next turn with only half of its movement points available.
The next turn they hit me with either "harass" or "assault patrol" and my army didn't have any movement points that turn.

I couldn't find anything in the encyclopedia or the tooltips saying that agent actions reduce movement points.
Here's a link to the encyclopedia section on agents
http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/characters

[Bramborough]

Here's something that I don't think is documented.

An AI agent poisoned my army in the field and that army started the next turn with only half of its movement points available.
The next turn they hit me with either "harass" or "assault patrol" and my army didn't have any movement points that turn.

I couldn't find anything in the encyclopedia or the tooltips saying that agent actions reduce movement points.
Here's a link to the encyclopedia section on agents
http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/characters

At least since Patch 3, the AI is capable of being fairly sneaky with this capability, appearing to actually coordinate agent actions with their armies.

Yesterday, I landed two Roman stacks in Sparta. I figured with two 16-unit stacks working in tandem, they'd be able to beat anything that Sparta threw at them. A Spartan champion-type (hero?), however, moved against stack #1 and sabotaged...not only removing its movement points but also rendering it incapable of reinforcing. THEN, a full 20-unit Spartan army, reinforced by another large army (something around 15 units or so), hit my now-unsupported stack #2. The balance-of-power bar was way to the left, maybe 15-20%ish. It's certainly possible to win outnumbered, especially as this is just Normal difficulty...but I figured being outnumbered that severely by Spartan phalanxes was certain defeat. So I retreated....which then left Stack #1 without support.

The two Spartan stacks now fell on these guys, who were unable to retreat, so had to fight the battle. I was pleasantly shocked to somehow win the thing, in a "close victory". Yeah yeah, the battle AI wasn't very smart on the attack, but pretty epic nevertheless just from the sheer numbers - of decent-quality troops - coming against the legionaries. Win or not, this legion was severely mauled and unable to replenish, so I was willing to concede the strategic victory to the Spartans and get these guys out, started moving my legions back to the coast. Next turn, however, the Spartan champ rolled in and they pulled the exact same tactic AGAIN, once more isolating my now-depleted legion against their two stacks. Of course, they had lost quite heavily in the previous battle as well, but they had a turn's worth of replenishment in friendly territory, so now the odds were even longer. Result: heroic victory. Not sure how/why...the legionaries just didn't break.

Bottom line, I was pretty impressed with the way the Spartans coordinated their agent/army actions. The fact that they did it two turns in a row seems to indicate that it was not a mere coincidence. And their tactic resulted in the two most interesting, adrenalin-pumping battles I've yet experienced in R2...and among the best I've encountered in any TW game.

Screenie from the first battle here. Added mainly just so I understand the process of saving, posting to Imgur, and then linking here.

https://i.imgur.com/pX9Y5d8.png

[phred]

At least since Patch 3, the AI is capable of being fairly sneaky with this capability, appearing to actually coordinate agent actions with their armies.

Yesterday, I landed two Roman stacks in Sparta. I figured with two 16-unit stacks working in tandem, they'd be able to beat anything that Sparta threw at them. A Spartan champion-type (hero?), however, moved against stack #1 and sabotaged...not only removing its movement points but also rendering it incapable of reinforcing. THEN, a full 20-unit Spartan army, reinforced by another large army (something around 15 units or so), hit my now-unsupported stack #2. The balance-of-power bar was way to the left, maybe 15-20%ish. It's certainly possible to win outnumbered, especially as this is just Normal difficulty...but I figured being outnumbered that severely by Spartan phalanxes was certain defeat. So I retreated....which then left Stack #1 without support.

The two Spartan stacks now fell on these guys, who were unable to retreat, so had to fight the battle. I was pleasantly shocked to somehow win the thing, in a "close victory". Yeah yeah, the battle AI wasn't very smart on the attack, but pretty epic nevertheless just from the sheer numbers - of decent-quality troops - coming against the legionaries. Win or not, this legion was severely mauled and unable to replenish, so I was willing to concede the strategic victory to the Spartans and get these guys out, started moving my legions back to the coast. Next turn, however, the Spartan champ rolled in and they pulled the exact same tactic AGAIN, once more isolating my now-depleted legion against their two stacks. Of course, they had lost quite heavily in the previous battle as well, but they had a turn's worth of replenishment in friendly territory, so now the odds were even longer. Result: heroic victory. Not sure how/why...the legionaries just didn't break.

Bottom line, I was pretty impressed with the way the Spartans coordinated their agent/army actions. The fact that they did it two turns in a row seems to indicate that it was not a mere coincidence. And their tactic resulted in the two most interesting, adrenalin-pumping battles I've yet experienced in R2...and among the best I've encountered in any TW game.

I had something like that happen against the Nasomenes (sp?) in North Africa. I had been steamrolling everyone, got to their province, they assassinated my general and hit me with 2 1/2 stacks. I lost big time, remade my stack, protected my general and they did it again. They missed the assassination attempt, but they were able to swarm me with their two stacks.
I came back with 3 fully developed stacks and took care of them. it was fun.

[Myth]

This is how Macedon destroyed my two experienced legions after I had conquered Athens and Sparta. Denying reinforcing is someting the AI does well and I want to be able to do it too, gotta learn how it happens.

[Bramborough]

This is how Macedon destroyed my two experienced legions after I had conquered Athens and Sparta. Denying reinforcing is someting the AI does well and I want to be able to do it too, gotta learn how it happens.

Yep, me too. As usual, the encyclopedia is no help, and in-game tooltips aren't either. BUT...I seem to remember a couple times when a post-action pop-up report said something like "Your agent was successful, and their movement has been hindered"....even though "hindering movement" wasn't the action I'd actually tried. So I think the movement hit is a side-benefit of a successful Sabotage action vs an army (or Manipulation action vs an agent).

[Jarmam]

Hindering movement is a side-effect of successful sabotaging. You can mouse over a "buff" icon on the stack that has been sabbed and get an overview of how hard you've been hit by the sab. Its quite counterintuitive, but there is a system there somewhere that needs discovering (because, you know... can't just write it in the encyclopeadia)

[Myth]

Actually I feel pretty dumb about this, but when you try to perform the action and mouse over the option above assassinate (with a champion) it says you cut off the army from being able to reinforce and also inflicting ADDITIONAL effects based on what you choose (Show Strength/Assault Patrol etc.)

[phred]

I saw this posted at the .com site.
It's an interactive map showing all the Roman auxiliary troops and where they can be recruited.

http://tallmyr.se/rome2/

[Slaists]

Since the last hot-fix (patch IV beta; now already out of beta) navies blockading cities suffer attrition.

A tip: use your dignitaries rather than champions with your active armies (use champions to train up the armies not presently being active). A dignitary can give a huge boost to the authoritas of the general: way more than the general can expect to gain over the life-span from battles. Sometimes the dignitary's effect is so large that my general's battlefield aura can cover the whole 20 unit stack. The authoritas boost from the dignitary allows one to invest in alternative qualities of the general (cunning for example, which unlocks night battles, improves ambushes, improves general's defenses against agent actions, political assassinations, etc.). As a bonus, dignitaries significantly reduce the upkeep of your armies.

[Bramborough]

I saw this posted at the .com site.
It's an interactive map showing all the Roman auxiliary troops and where they can be recruited.

http://tallmyr.se/rome2/

Dang, that's actually pretty cool. Bookmarked this one.

[Bramborough]

Since the last hot-fix (patch IV beta; now already out of beta) navies blockading cities suffer attrition.

A tip: use your dignitaries rather than champions with your active armies (use champions to train up the armies not presently being active). A dignitary can give a huge boost to the authoritas of the general: way more than the general can expect to gain over the life-span from battles. Sometimes the dignitary's effect is so large that my general's battlefield aura can cover the whole 20 unit stack. The authoritas boost from the dignitary allows one to invest in alternative qualities of the general (cunning for example, which unlocks night battles, improves ambushes, improves general's defenses against agent actions, political assassinations, etc.). As a bonus, dignitaries significantly reduce the upkeep of your armies.

There's a lot to be said for embedding all one's agents in armies, which I did in one of my campaigns. Each agent type has some pretty decent bonuses for its parent armies (spies maybe not quite as good...I don't really see how extra LOS helps that much). Another nice benefit is that every army always has an agent handy to pop out of the stack and go sabotage an enemy or town before battle. Just makes agents "easier" to manage, especially late in the campaign during 4th/5th imperium levels.

[AntiDamascus]

That actually really does help explain where the units are grouped.

[Sociopsychoactive]

Back to agent actions for a moment.

Any 'military sabotage' action by any agent against any army has the reduced movement effect on success. Not sure about the re-inforcement one, that may be champion specific. If you critically succeed then the army cannot move at all. THe flaw is that not only does it not tell you this anywhere useful (tooltip over the army effects is the only place I have found it) but it doesn't tell you whether your succes was normal or critical in your own agent success screen. Sigh.

[Bramborough]

Not sure about the re-inforcement one, that may be champion specific.

Yep, the reinforcement nerf is available for all agents as well, and is really the best part of the action in many cases. As far as I can tell, it only requires normal, instead of critical, success to accomplish.

I agree with you that all this ought to be more readily visible than it is.

[Alcibiade]

Don't know if it's documented but the replace button in army details (general's table) allow you to choose the right commander fo an army among your statesmen. The best way to compare their caracteristics is to open the faction's table though.

[mbrasher1]

A. Provinces with gold and purple dye boost public order at higher levels. Of course, they still cost food.

Since gold cities have the highest industrial income, it is good to increase the industrial base and bonuses with both industrial buildings, and the industry boosting temples that many civs get.
Since purple dye provinces offer a large base income from commerce, in those provs build ports, and commerce boosting buildings like the commerce boosting temple and amphorae factory)

B. Provinces with lead and "market" boost the wealth from all buildings within the province (just like the main city in the province).

This means that lead and "market" provinces are ideal locations to put high income buildings (trading ports, the income producing temples and high income city center buildings like wine trader, brickmaker and unique high income buildings like the Ptolemaic Great Library and the Roman Colosseum).

C. The glassware cities give big boosts to research rates at higher levels.

[jbillybrack]

Regarding dignitaries, I've found them to be VERY useful late game keeping corruption minimized. Using their dignitary skill (the one that increases authority) allows you to eventually get to the demagogy skill, that reduces corruption by as much as 15 percent. I was making around 10000 a turn with sparta before I recruited some dignitaries and powerleveled them, after which my income returned to a respectable level (because 10000 a turn goes quickly when you've got 100+ settlements to manage)

[Forward Observer]

I don't think anybody has mentioned this yet, but I just realized that when one recruits a spy from the pool, it seems to work out best to pick the one on the far right of the group. It appears that they will be the youngest. I was just picking from left to right and was getting 40 year old spies who obviously were only going to last 20 turns or so. By switching to picking from the right end of the list, I've started getting spies who were only 17 or 18 years old. I haven't checked to see if a younger ones comes with less starting traits than the older ones, but obviously an 18 year old is going to be around 22 turns longer than one who is already 40, so one can get the chance to really level them up.

I haven't checked this for dignitaries and champions yet, but it could be the same for them also.

Cheers

P.S.
I'm too lazy to take the time to check this out, but I guessing that unless the agents in the pool are in some sort of frozen stasis until they are recruited they are also aging each turn---and that new agents added to the pool are added to the right end of the list and therefore are the youngest.

[Bramborough]

Yep, that's exactly what happens. The left and middle candidates have been sitting around getting grayer since the last time you passed them over. And oh by the way, same for generals as well.

Would be nice if the game generated a new three-candidate "random sample" of three each time. At least for agents.

[AntiDamascus]

That's why their age needs to be listed when you pick them.

[Myth]

I pick based on starting trait as I'd rather get a bonus to unit xp while training with my champion than -2 unrest in local province.

[Forward Observer]

I pick based on starting trait as I'd rather get a bonus to unit xp while training with my champion than -2 unrest in local province.

I can't argue with the premise of choosing agents based on starting traits, but I think it that it could be equally important to also consider if there is a negative trade-off in said agent's longevity. Obviously, longevity would imply the ability to have your agent level up more and an extra 20 turns or more to do so could be significant.

It also could work out that picking based on traits works better for one type of agent and longevity for others. Of course this would also depend on how the player uses their agents with their particular play style. It's all good I guess.


Cheers

[Bramborough]

For me, champ and dignitary selection first depends on their military training and civil admin skills, as these directly impact how I use these guys. However, this usually doesn't play against also picking for young age. The older agents are older because I passed them over last time...which usually means they didn't have my preferred skill to begin with. It essentially comes down to a lottery over whether the newest, youngest candidate has the desired trait or not. When he doesn't, it means that none of the three have it, so then I can just pick the young one anyway.

Less clear for spies...I find their typical starting traits less useful, as I rarely embed them in armies or use them for intelligence/counter-intelligence. Most (not all) of their starting skills play into these type roles, where instead I use spies actively, converting/blocking enemy agents, sabotaging armies and towns. They quickly get pretty good at this regardless of starting skill, so I now generally default to picking the gal on the far right, figuring she's youngest.

[Slaists]

tired of "events" cleaning out your treasury? invest your treasury in expensive buildings before the turn end. voila - "events" all of a sudden become much more affordable ;) on the next turn, cancel construction to recover costs.

might be considered an exploit.

[Bramborough]

I understand the logic of your tip...but I'm not really sure what "events" you're talking about in the first place. You mean the political ones where you have to pay $$$ when someone spreads rumors about your family?

[Hooahguy]

If I had to guess its the political events. But to then go and reload and avoid it seems like cheating to me. Part of the fun is deciding if you need the money or if saving the reputation of that family member is more important!

[Sp4]

The annoying thing is... they only happen if you have the money to pay for them. Just about. Seems like it was made to be annoying. If they happened all the time and put you into negative cash, that would be cool and less.. oh you're doing well? Here, have a branch between your legs :D

[Hooahguy]

That seems to be true actually. I am always upgrading something so I rarely have an excess of 5k cash so they dont come too often. Annoying when they do though. I really wish though I can check my list of generals so I can make an informed decision.

[Slaists]

If I had to guess its the political events. But to then go and reload and avoid it seems like cheating to me. Part of the fun is deciding if you need the money or if saving the reputation of that family member is more important!

No reloading involved: just canceling construction ;)

And, yes: those are the "political events" that seem to serve the only function of emptying your treasury. Surprisingly: those events tend to happen right at the moment when you successfully accomplish a mission giving you + cash...

[Sp4]

Yes, the way these things delay a plan of yours by one turn is infuriating.

[Slaists]

For a short intro to how gravitas and politics work try this. Roll as Suebi. You start with 1 general, 2 statesmen from your faction and one general from the opposition. Check that none of your generals/statesmen have any negative gravitas traits. If they don't you're fine. Replace your faction's general with a candidate from the opposition (you should have one in the waits). Check if the opposition replacement has no positive boost to gravitas per turn; check if the old opposition general has none. If they don't, you're fine to proceed. If not, you might have to re-roll (to see the test to completion).

If all is well, scroll through a few turns doing nothing. Your generals will be playing politics (and gaining gravitas) at home while the opposition will be sitting in the field doing nothing (gaining no gravitas). Observe the changes in gravitas and the change in influence. Profit... You can go from the starting 67% influence to high 70'ies in no time.

[Slaists]

Maximizing your general's xp gain per turn: fight the armies camped outside the city first

Frequently, when you arrive at barbarian cities, they have one stack sitting inside the city and another one (or two) right next to the city. If your agent's carry out a sabotage mission on the army outside the city, it will not join the fight when you attack the town. However, that said army will retreat from the walls after you take the city. Your army led by the general whose xp you ant to maximize will be stuck inside the city for a turn and won't be able to reach the enemy stack (or two) that retreated.

In order to optimize xp, it is better to disable the army inside the city (and possibly also the one outside in order for it not to be able to retreat from battle) and attack the one outside first. That way, the city garrison will join (and can be annihilated in a field battle) but you will have at least one more battle for your general on that very turn: when you take the city. Of course, you have to plan your move points well to be able to pull this off. Even better if there are 2 enemy stacks next to the city. Then, you can have 3 battles instead of 1 (on the turn you take the city).

The disabling I mentioned above can be done by any of the sabotage missions of any of your agents. If you succeed at any sabotage attempt, the target army loses either half or all of its move points and cannot reinforce a battle. A side effect of a successful sabotage is that the AI seems unable to retreat battle either if it feels your force is superior.

Another tip: generals joining a battle as reinforcements earn gravitas too.

This is something I noticed recently. The generals who join your battle as reinforcements do not earn battle experience. However, they DO earn gravitas. Thus, if your main general wins the battle and earns gravitas, yet your reinforcing army was led by an opposition general who also gained gravitas, the total impact on your party's influence could be nil (both party's earned +1 gravitas creating a wash situation unless the ambition differential of generals skews it one way or another). So, better have your own party's general leading the reinforcing army if you have one.

[Sociopsychoactive]

Actually, with patch 7 the re-inforcing generals will earn experience too now.

[Bramborough]

Yep. Can be a bit of a pain if one is trying to manage internal faction politics, but otherwise a great help to developing general's capabilities.

[Slaists]

Yup, since patch 7, reinforcing gens do earn xp and can level pretty fast on the lower levels. Yes, it is another thing to consider when managing poltics. Anyone got CW with patch 7 yet? Just curious for the conditions of it happening.

[Slaists]

Patch 7, Seleucids, turn 34, VH campaign

Any sense of danger?

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/488934420518334632/3AE4D3B3BB403BD507A8874D237D862C36AE5101/

[Bramborough]

Looks like you're doing pretty good to me. I guess that's your point...

[Slaists]

Looks like you're doing pretty good to me. I guess that's your point...

No, my point is... it's too easy. On VH. Still. Patch 7...

Actually, patch 7 spoiled Seleucids for me in a sense.

Before patch 7, I was oblivious to diplomatic reputation consequences since whatever I did, I was still showing as "steadfast" with everyone except my immediate target. So, my first action as Seleucids, pre-patch 7, would have been to declare war on Cyprus (or Egypt, depending on my mood). This would result in a cascading series of events (my Eastern satraps declaring war on me; some Greeks declaring war on my remaining satraps, etc.). It was exciting that way.

Post patch 7: I discovered that actually, there was a pre-exising truce with Cyprus; this, by extension is a truce with Egypt (since Cyprus is a satrapy of Egypt). So, fine, i decide to play 'by rules': no DOW on Egypt for 10 turns. No truce with Quidri (a truce with Quidri also results in a hit to diplo reliability and satraps as well).

The result you see: a very boring Seleucid game. All my Eastern satraps are still satraps some 30 turns into the game; Egypt I have conquered (waiting for 10 turns to do so); I have a bunch of extremely friendly Greek allies, etc.

I guess, the only way to have a fun game is to break all truces, DOW anyone you see :)

[Jacque Schtrapp]

The result you see: a very boring Seleucid game. I guess, the only way to have a fun game is to break all truces, DOW anyone you see :)

I haven't opted into the latest beta, so I can't guarantee it will play out the same way. Try Carthage as the Barcid family. They have a moderate diplomatic penalty with ALL factions. I played about 50 turns over the weekend on VH. The entire time was spent running low on funds and rushing half stack armies between cities in an attempt to stave off the latest invasion. The only faction willing to trade was the Etruscans. Everyone else declared war shortly after we met. I fought well over a dozen battles just to defend Qart-Hadasht. I finally gave up when faced with a turn that would have cost me Carthage and Lilybaeum.

[Slaists]

I haven't opted into the latest beta, so I can't guarantee it will play out the same way. Try Carthage as the Barcid family. They have a moderate diplomatic penalty with ALL factions. I played about 50 turns over the weekend on VH. The entire time was spent running low on funds and rushing half stack armies between cities in an attempt to stave off the latest invasion. The only faction willing to trade was the Etruscans. Everyone else declared war shortly after we met. I fought well over a dozen battles just to defend Qart-Hadasht. I finally gave up when faced with a turn that would have cost me Carthage and Lilybaeum.

Jacque Schtrapp Been there, done that (Barcid, VH, post patch 5): got to around the same turn mark you had (50), but... had an extremely boring campaign. The difference was: the first thing I did was evacuate Qart-Hadast. Went after Sicily (an easy kill); then proceeded into Southern Italy. In these wars, I managed to drag Lybia along and as a result, they grew very friendly (no separation of that vassal); I also supported them in a war against some desert minor and that cemented our relationship even further. I guess, as a result of that power balance, the other desert tribes became friendly too, asked for NAP's, etc.

Ironically, it turned out, my troops sitting in Qart-Hadast were a trigger for AI's aggression there. Once my troops were gone, Spanish AI sued for peace and paid 5000 for it... by turn 50: no one has even bothered to take a peek in my empty Spanish province.

By the way, as Carthage, no one wants to trade with you mostly because you do not have any trade goods to trade (dunno why they made it so for a merchant nation). Once you conquer Italy, you have plenty to go around. Suddenly everyone wants to trade.

As to keeping Seleucid vassals friendly: the key seems to keep declaring small, manageable wars on anyone and dragging the satraps into those wars. As long as you beating up on the same enemy, satraps are happy. The satraps love when you behead captives, poison your enemy's wells, etc.

[Mhantra]

Suebi.

Impossible.

Go for THIS IS TOTAL WAR acheivement (declare war with every faction immediately when meeting them, including on the first turn, declare war on everyone).

Enjoy the challenge.

[Slaists]

Suebi.

Impossible.

Go for THIS IS TOTAL WAR acheivement (declare war with every faction immediately when meeting them, including on the first turn, declare war on everyone).

Enjoy the challenge.

That would do it I guess. Just would throw the diplomacy part of the game out the window :)

[Myth]

Why don't you play on Legendary? I think you're long past the VH threshold.

[Slaists]

Why don't you play on Legendary? I think you're long past the VH threshold.
Myth, I've played legendary: the change from VH to Legendary (got to turn 120 with Pontus before patch 7) is not that significant in terms of AI behavior: the same World Peace AI (and stupid as hell on the battlefield)... Legendary just adds the annoyance of not having the radar map and the tactical overview. The lack of pausing I don't care about yet the lack of tactical overview is important since it allows one to get rid of the occasional frame-rate drop in battles. TAB'ing into tactical overview and back into the battle gets rid of the stutter. Also there is the rain slowdown bug. If it is raining I during the weather selection the frame-rate drops to practically zero. Frequently this gets inherited into the battlefield as well. On VH, I can opt out of that battle (lose it) and reload from my quicksave.

With I could have the AI bonuses of legendary but have the tactical overview map and ability to reload from the start of the battles (to work around the rain slowdown).

I am also playing a VH MPC with a friend (he is Iceni, I am Macedon). Due to time zone differences we can do that only on weekends. But in that campaign, things are different. Since we play as the AI in each battle where odds are less than 90% in favor of the player, we make progress very slowly. Every battle, every agent action matters in that campaign. By year 245 BC, Iceni have managed to add only 1 extra region. We've had some epic slinger battles in Britannia: the region is covered with heroic battle markers... Macedon has 6 regions total, but I just lost a region to an AI faction since I was defeated in a siege defense battle which I otherwise would have won (if the AI troops were not controlled by a human). And, to be honest, I am not sure for how long I will be able to hang in. 4 Greek factions have declared war on me. Every one of those incoming armies will be controlled by a human. :)

[Hooahguy]

Suebi.

Impossible.

Go for THIS IS TOTAL WAR acheivement (declare war with every faction immediately when meeting them, including on the first turn, declare war on everyone).

Enjoy the challenge.

Initially it wouldnt be terrible. Until you got to the Romans and Hellenistic states which have much better units than you do.

[Hooahguy]

Alright, little siege tip:

If you are choosing to sally out during their siege assault, do it from a gate which they arent currently near. Because if you do counter-attack from a gate they are near and your gates have boiling oil, the oil does not discriminate and your guys will drop like flies. I recently lost over 1,500 men of a 2,000 man sallying force because I stupidly charged them through the very gate that the enemy was assaulting and I lost the 1,500 is about 3 minutes. That was not a fun battle. I ended up having a very convenient crash before the battle ended.

So in short, be careful where you charge your guys out of in a siege battle.

[Slaists]

Patch 7, coastal Lusitania can have any resource you want (a wildcard option)

Not sure if this is WAD, but here it goes.

Last night, playing as Romans, I captured a coastal Lusitanian region (where today's Portugal is). I proceeded to destroy the barbarian town center as I usually do since they build them too high for my taste (and there was no resource in the town anyway). The next turn, I was surprised to learn I could have any resource I wanted in the town. The building options for the town center offered about a dozen town center options, basically for any resource in the game. I picked silk, LOL.

One thing I noticed, usually, when I destroy a barbarian city center, it downgrades to barbarian level 1. In this case though, the town center was wiped out completely: just an empty building slot there.

[Slaists]

There, a screenshot of the above. The town name is Olisipo.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/487808781220902185/6C195279025487DA2A0B447020977A170726EA2C/

[Sp4]

Not sure if that is supposed to be that way. It sounds pretty silly.

[Myth]

Not sure if that is supposed to be that way. It sounds pretty silly.

Definitely not working as intended.

[Slaists]

here is another one, a reversed sign bonus for a champion deployed in enemy territory (http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/113515-Bug-report-A-champion-reduces-zeal-based-action-chance-reversed-sign-of-effect?p=982313#post982313)...

A champion deployed in enemy territory has the expected effect of increasing your zeal based action chances. Actually, a champion deployed in enemy territory REDUCES your zeal based action chances. Another reversed sign bug similar to uphill battle bonus that was fixed a couple patches ago.

[Slaists]

It seems, I am getting much better performance in sieges if I turn missile tracers off...

[Seyavash]

Does anyone know how to tell when a province has exhausted it's growth potential? Some regions seem to only have 3 slots versus 4 while capitals also seem to vary somewhat from province to province. I am guessing it is when all potential building slots disappear but I am hoping for confirmation.

[Sp4]

When the growth thing no longer rises.

[Bramborough]

Does anyone know how to tell when a province has exhausted it's growth potential? Some regions seem to only have 3 slots versus 4 while capitals also seem to vary somewhat from province to province. I am guessing it is when all potential building slots disappear but I am hoping for confirmation.

It is true that there are varying numbers of build slots for each settlement, but it is not random. The differences in slots among various settlements is due to two factors: First, whether the city is a capital or a minor, and second, whether it is coastal or inland. The city and port slots are always fixed (e.g., the player cannot opt to replace a port or city with, say, a farm or barracks). So, settlements have a consistent number of "player-discretion" slots as far as what is built in them (4 for capitals, 2 for minors).

Coastal capitals have 6 slots (1 city, 1 port, 4 discretionary).
Inland capitals have 5 slots (1 city, 4 discretionary).
Coastal minor settlements have 4 slots (1 town, 1 port, 2 discretionary).
Inland minor settlements have 3 slots (1 town, 2 discretionary).

Once all settlements in a province have reached those numbers, then provincial growth stops.

[Myth]

Bram is correct. And I will just add that what is considered coastal and what is not is a bit arbitrary (or it is historically accurate, haven't checked). For example, Rome has no port (which is accurate). Then again, some regions like Sparta don't have one either, which is just weird.

[Nelson]

I understand how CA assigned the building slots, but the result underplays the great cities. Rome with five seems smaller than many towns or cities that get six builds and leaves me wondering why I must choose between the Coliseum and the Circus Maximus.

Rome should have room to at least build the most famous of her structures. I think the great cities of the time like Rome, Alexandria and Athens should get extra slots.

[Mhantra]

I understand how CA assigned the building slots, but the result underplays the great cities. Rome with five seems smaller than many towns or cities that get six builds and leaves me wondering why I must choose between the Coliseum and the Circus Maximus.

Rome should have room to at least build the most famous of her structures. I think the great cities of the time like Rome, Alexandria and Athens should get extra slots.

Hmm, this might help the large, more historically important, factions stay in the game longer. Some of the large, famous cities get a bonus spot or two. This would affect strategy too, making it more desirable. Interesting...

[Seyavash]

It is true that there are varying numbers of build slots for each settlement, but it is not random. The differences in slots among various settlements is due to two factors: First, whether the city is a capital or a minor, and second, whether it is coastal or inland. The city and port slots are always fixed (e.g., the player cannot opt to replace a port or city with, say, a farm or barracks). So, settlements have a consistent number of "player-discretion" slots as far as what is built in them (4 for capitals, 2 for minors).

Coastal capitals have 6 slots (1 city, 1 port, 4 discretionary).
Inland capitals have 5 slots (1 city, 4 discretionary).
Coastal minor settlements have 4 slots (1 town, 1 port, 2 discretionary).
Inland minor settlements have 3 slots (1 town, 2 discretionary).

Once all settlements in a province have reached those numbers, then provincial growth stops.

Thanks. I actually found your answer on another thread after posting here. This helps me stop worrying about growth for those regions where it is no longer possible.

One odd thing I notice that pops up periodically is I will suddenly not be able to build a certain type such as the cattle line when I normally should. However, I find that if I start the first level of some other building type in that slot then destroy it I usually can build the line I was denied a few turns earlier.

[Sp4]

I understand how CA assigned the building slots, but the result underplays the great cities. Rome with five seems smaller than many towns or cities that get six builds and leaves me wondering why I must choose between the Coliseum and the Circus Maximus.

Rome should have room to at least build the most famous of her structures. I think the great cities of the time like Rome, Alexandria and Athens should get extra slots.

But that doesn't work with all the streamlining! :D

[alQamar]

Patch 8 introduced an undocumented but welcomed fix for the unit size in multiplayer battles

here is my inital visualization about this issue, CA accepted some time ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2Ab6IxEjJ0

http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/99388-Not-being-able-to-change-unit-size-in-MP-hosted-battles

[Slaists]

It seems, the effects of the new culture system have very different results for different factions. Playing as a Hellenic faction, for example, there is not much of a dent created by the new system. But try playing Galatia, for example, after conquering a few provinces you'll be stuck with clicking "next turn" for a looong time in order to get culture balance right and happiness to acceptable levels. This is on legendary difficulty, normal might be easier.

[Seyavash]

I thought I saw the answer to this previously but I cannot find it. How do I force the army to stay in a formation without creating one large group? I want to be able to have in effect sub groups (eg right center and left) that move in a coordinated fashion. I think this has always been possible but I never learned how.

[Slaists]

I thought I saw the answer to this previously but I cannot find it. How do I force the army to stay in a formation without creating one large group? I want to be able to have in effect sub groups (eg right center and left) that move in a coordinated fashion. I think this has always been possible but I never learned how.
Seyavash

1. Arrange your army the way you want it.
2. Select all (CTRL + A would do it)
3. In the field (not on unit cards), left click-hold on one unit in that army (while everybody is selected)
4. while holding down the left mouse button, drag the cursor to where you want your army to go; you will see a ghost of your army in the formation you selected moving there
5. upon releasing the cursor, the army will move to the target place and arrange themselves in the original formation
6. if you pres CTRL while doing #4, you'll be able to change the rotation of the army
7. while your army is marching (looking all messy) you can select everyone again (not waiting for them to stop) and give them a new location; they will still remember their original formation from step 1.

[Sp4]

Seyavash

1. Arrange your army the way you want it.
2. Select all (CTRL + A would do it)
3. In the field (not on unit cards), left click-hold on one unit in that army (while everybody is selected)
4. while holding down the left mouse button, drag the cursor to where you want your army to go; you will see a ghost of your army in the formation you selected moving there
5. upon releasing the cursor, the army will move to the target place and arrange themselves in the original formation
6. if you pres CTRL while doing #4, you'll be able to change the rotation of the army
7. while your army is marching (looking all messy) you can select everyone again (not waiting for them to stop) and give them a new location; they will still remember their original formation from step 1.

I actually really liked the way they made this work. I was a little annoyed by the removal of the movement compass at first but this is nice.

[Seyavash]

Seyavash

1. Arrange your army the way you want it.
2. Select all (CTRL + A would do it)
3. In the field (not on unit cards), left click-hold on one unit in that army (while everybody is selected)
4. while holding down the left mouse button, drag the cursor to where you want your army to go; you will see a ghost of your army in the formation you selected moving there
5. upon releasing the cursor, the army will move to the target place and arrange themselves in the original formation
6. if you pres CTRL while doing #4, you'll be able to change the rotation of the army
7. while your army is marching (looking all messy) you can select everyone again (not waiting for them to stop) and give them a new location; they will still remember their original formation from step 1.

Finally got a chance to try it out, but cannot get it to work. All it does is create a single line of troops. If I make 4 groups it does not line them up according to the layout I set. Instead it makes 1 line of my 4 groups. Basically what I was hoping to do is create army formations that combine various groups. Say a one group 3 line left wing, a one group 5 line center, a one group 3 line right wing and a 2 line reserve wing in the back. when I move the entire army the left, center, right and back groups stay in their individual group formations and maintain their order in relation to each other.

[Slaists]

Seyavash from what you are telling it seems you are using right click drag; you should be using LEFT click hold drag as per my original post.

[Seyavash]

Seyavash from what you are telling it seems you are using right click drag; you should be using LEFT click hold drag as per my original post.

Hi Slaists, I had tried left but wasn't getting it to work so tried right which as you noted was not correct and got the results I mentioned in my 2nd post. However, I tried a few more times and I have figured out what I was doing wrong. I was not properly holding the mouse button down while dragging the cursor as outlined in step 4 but inadvertantly releasing it. Your steps work perfectly. Thanks for the assistance.

[Monthar]

While on your global rampage, always check the diplomacy screen to see your next target's allies and enemies. Then check each of the enemies to see which one will pay the most for joining them in the war against your target just before you intend to declare war on the target. That way you gain some extra cash and boost your relationship with the enemies of your target at the same time.

You can also join wars against those AI you haven't met yet to gain a bunch of cash from those you have met. In my current campaign I manged to earn close to 10k (1-2k per AI) several times from this by turn 40 or 50. I think the first time I tried this was around turn 15-20 and I raked in about 6-8k just from selling my joining their wars.

Once you've done all the "join war" for profit bit, you can generally make even more lump sum cash from signing NAPs and setting up trade routes. In some cases you might have to pay 500-1000 for the NAP, but can then either re-coop that cash or even more more when signing the trade agreement. For instance I might pay 500 for the NAP, which then boosts our relationship enough to get them to pay 1000 for the trade agreement.

Doing all this from the beginning can go a long way towards helping you afford to buy all your buildings and troops fairly quickly.

[Slaists]

Suebi unit longbow hunters has the ability to remain hidden while firing. On the field, the feature is not really working since enemy notices longbows as soon as they crawl within firing distance [simply the sight distance seems to be set longer than the firing distance]. This, of course, mutes the usefulness of the feature on the battlefield.

The fun part starts when you try longbows against defending city fortifications. As long as there are no enemy units nearby the longbows stay hidden to enemy towers and gates. They can even fire torches while hidden and take over whole sections of city defenses without losing a man.

Sounds like an exploit, then again, this is exactly the sort of thing that a stealth/special ops unit is supposed to do.

[edyzmedieval]

A little tip if it's not well known already - culture researches give a massive income boost. 20% in wealth from culture can ramp up income considerably.

[Slaists]

A little tip if it's not well known already - culture researches give a massive income boost. 20% in wealth from culture can ramp up income considerably.


That's if you have a plenty of regions and culture buildings. At that point though, any tech giving any bonus to any wealth [or reducing corruption] will ramp up income considerably.

[edyzmedieval]

That's if you have a plenty of regions and culture buildings. At that point though, any tech giving any bonus to any wealth [or reducing corruption] will ramp up income considerably.

True, but focusing a bit on culture will definitely give a handy boost in the short term once you pass the halfway mark in your campaign.

[Slaists]

It's not clear to me whether +20% from culture applies to only culture type wealth (libraries, etc.) or to the aggregate wealth. Hmm, have to re-test this.

Naval commerce and boosts to it from techs and temples is what usually turns out to be the biggest cash cow in my campaigns. Sometimes even a 3-region, 2 port province (with stacked temple effects) can generate in excess of 10K income per turn especially after the civil war when one can reduce global corruption via the empire government decision.

One trick with naval commerce is that one has to control all the ports that are located in the sea-zone(s) of the commerce province. Even an ally controlled port causes a significant reduction in the naval commerce income. An enemy controlled port (or enemy stacks present in the sea-zone) will have a dramatic impact.

[Sp4]

So that is actually still in the game?

I didn't realise. Over all their streamlining, they've made the whole income thing really really complicated, with percentages heaped upon more percentages and modifiers. I kind of miss the settlement scroll that told you this settlement is making X amount of money because of Y, Z and S. (Yes, I know there exists a window that tells you that but seriously... has anyone ever bothered to sit down with a calculator or a spreadsheet or something to try and figure out the best possible way to build a settlement? Actually, no, don't answer that, I am sure someone does do that sort of thing but it is not very 'streamlined' or anything. If I can't be bothered with it, there must be thousands of players who can't be bothered and just take a new province and go... Farm Farm Farm Farm Farm Culture Conversion Temple, forget about region for the rest of the game)

[Slaists]

Yeah, it is still in the game (stacking and naval commerce effects).

Hover your mouse over a sea-zone where you have presence. A tool-tip will show up telling you exactly what affects your naval commerce income. This is separate from trade, by the way. I have seen huge jumps in income as I clear sea zones or obtain full control of a zone.

As to econ stacking: as Rome try taking Africa (the province) early and spam trade ports + Neptune temples + temples of Mercury + a slave market + max city centers there (you'll need food surplus from somewhere else to do this). Once done, stick in a dignitary [for extra tax]. The province is a cash cow with its 4 ports. Mauritania is very good too.

Factions have different stacking schemes though since the bonuses of temples and econ buildings vary. Also, combinations of maxed out city centers with resource production + edicts can have interesting stacking benefits.

On top of that, diplo considerations can lead to different solutions. Playing as Carthage, for example, Tarraconensis turned out to be my cash province (it has only 2 ports and 3 regions) while I left Africa under Lybian control and Mauritania under Nova Carthago.

Trade is also an interesting beast. There are buildings that boosts trade income. What the building description does not tell you is that the boost applies to your global trade, not just the trade from the province you build the building in. So, as you grow, spamming trade buildings can become a very viable option.

All in all, I personally like RTW 2 income system better than any previous TW games. There are many ways to develop. I agree it all is poorly explained though.

edyzmedieval, I did some checking on the culture bonus mentioned earlier. It seems, it applies only to the part of the wealth generated by culture buildings, nothing else. Take a look at this pic of Rome. The tooltip shows breakdown of wealth for Rome itself.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/581279875051154300/85ACBD9FC578DFE55E52781F390EAF4349268A46/

In this case, the base wealth for Rome is shown as 700 coming from subsistence (the city center). There is a 32% bonus applied to it to result in total wealth for Rome of 924. This bonus comes entirely from the city center buildings (20% from Rome itself and 12% from one of the minor town centers; 20% + 12% = 32%). There is no extra +20% bonus from culture even though I have the tech.

In another province where I had a library, there was a 20% bonus applied to the wealth from the library (not to the wealth coming from other sources).

So, in order for one to see a substantial increase from the culture tech, the empire needs a heavy emphasis on culture producing buildings. By the way, temples in most cases do not provide culture wealth. At least, the Roman ones don't.

[edyzmedieval]

Since my only very advanced campaign is with Carthage, the temples of Baal-Hammon offer a culture bonus, which means that the 20% culture boost applied in pretty much every one of my provinces.

[Slaists]

Since my only very advanced campaign is with Carthage, the temples of Baal-Hammon offer a culture bonus, which means that the 20% culture boost applied in pretty much every one of my provinces.

There you go, that explains it :)

My example was for Rome. I think only one Roman temple gives culture income and it is not the most popular to use.