Converting Civilization3 unit animations

[zweihander]

I know there is already an unit anim thread but I think this is important so I start a new thread.

Before BG can find some time to draw his landskenchts for PMTW, I decide to try to convert my favourite landsknecht unit by Kinboat(from the CFC forum) from Civ3 to MTW, thanks to my experience of converting Civ3 unit to EU2-ftg, it is not too difficult to me.

Let me show a quick test, just one standing frame of the landsknecht:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17580&d=1455985465

Two screenshot in game, the first one shows the unit anim at its original size, while in the second one I increase the size to 220 using the gnome editor:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17581&d=1455985465
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17579&d=1455985465


As you notice, it has no faction colour now, but I think it is possible to add later by replacing the colour plate.
And the height of the landsknecht is just about 4/5 to 3/4 of the PMtW unit anim left to him, though I increase its size too 220. Nothing more I can do to this…

Generally speaking I'm statisfied with its performance in game. What do you think of it? Making a full animation cost many time, if you think it is worth to do so I would like to finish at least the landsknecht graphic.


One question: the Civ3 anim use 15 frame per action while MTW use 12, how should I deal with this? (though it would not be a problem for standing action)

[Stazi]

And the height of the landsknecht is just about 4/5 to 3/4 of the PMtW unit anim left to him, though I increase its size too 220. Nothing more I can do to this…

You can increase the soldier size (texture) 2 times and then scale them down to appropriate size via SCALE factor in UNIT_PROD. Of course, it can be a problem to fit all soldier poses in one texture.


Generally speaking I'm statisfied with its performance in game. What do you think of it? Making a full animation cost many time, if you think it is worth to do so I would like to finish at least the landsknecht graphic.

Could you upload any unit animations form Civ3? I'd like to see the format they use.


One question: the Civ3 anim use 15 frame per action while MTW use 12, how should I deal with this? (though it would not be a problem for standing action)

I'd drop 4, 8 and 12th frame. It will cause a little jumps in animation but probably unnoticeable.

[zweihander]

I'm not at my computer now so can't upload anything. However, you can find civ3 units here:http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=60

They're in flc format, and there is a tool to convert them into pcx.
Please read these two thread, they explain a lot about them:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/tutorial-how-to-convert-civ3-sprites-to-darkest-hour.679417
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/diy-sprites-instructions-and-help-for-producing-your-own-units.741529

[cegorach]

Brilliant. I planned to do it myself and got permissions for that from CIv3 forum.

Sadly my graphics skills are almost non existent and I've barely managed to deal with icons and info_info pics.

Those animations would be perfect.

[zweihander]

-DELETE-

Edit:OK, I fix it, It is becasue the way I calculate x0, y0

[Stazi]

One question: the Civ3 anim use 15 frame per action while MTW use 12, how should I deal with this? (though it would not be a problem for standing action)

Just checked it and animation without 4, 8 and 12th frame still looks good enough for me.

15 frames
17585

12 frames
17584

[zweihander]

Just checked it and animation without 4, 8 and 12th frame still looks good enough for me.

15 frames
17585

12 frames
17584
Thansks, I did that!

You can increase the soldier size (texture) 2 times and then scale them down to appropriate size via SCALE factor in UNIT_PROD. Of course, it can be a problem to fit all soldier poses in one texture.

I check them in battle and found that the size is acceptable if I increase the scale to 225. Don't need this method, but thank you anyway!

---------------------------------------------

Ok, the full landsknecht animation is done. Anyone want to test it ingame can download it from the attachment of this post.
But still no faction colour yet, haven't find a way to add it.

The Screenshots show that Bavarian Doppelsoldners fighting the Saxon Pikemen:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17587&d=1456040863
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17588&d=1456040863

Quality not good enough, as I expected.

And sadly, civ3 anims don't differentiate Walk, Run and Charge action, so they use the same in game.

---------------

Edit:

Re-upload the Doppelsoldner.RAR file.

[Stazi]

17592

It works ok, only shadow it's too big IMHO. But you can leave it for now. Details like this can be changed in the end when we will have nothing else to do.
Soldiers are still too small so reducing the size of other units is a must.

EDIT
It's strange. On your screens they look nearly the same size but on mine they are way too small although I set scale to 225.

EDIT2
They are ok. Forget all about the size I wrote above.

[zweihander]

17592

It works ok, only shadow it's too big IMHO. But you can leave it for now. Details like this can be changed in the end when we will have nothing else to do.
Soldiers are still too small so reducing the size of other units is a must.

EDIT
It's strange. On your screens they look nearly the same size but on mine they are way too small although I set scale to 225.

I suggest you to use this BIF (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17591&d=1456042708), which I haven't change to blue palette to green... I upload the green one by mistake, will reupload it.

Any way to add faction colour?

[zweihander]

Alright, a faction colour version is done! Not perfect though.


http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311116532581944045/D655B6DF46F8B7F9DD2B1B3279DC43991F2D3FE7/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311116532581943242/46D749B622851829009B48EAADCFF7111790CD63/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311116532581942457/B795AF3E29F046F911C4E98F50B52068DBA02693/

[Stazi]

Any way to add faction colour?

My method is probably not very professional but works for me. btw I use Photoshop CS6.

Start with creating two palettes - one for pinks only and one for greens only. Something like this:
17594

1. Select the area you want to change into faction colors.

2. Make a new layer with the selected area

3. Duplicate the layer to the new file

4. Change the image mode (of the new file) to the indexed color. In the popup window choose Custom palette and find one of those two palettes you created. Photoshop will change and remap colors automatically.
17596

5. If the result satisfies you copy the selected area again and paste it into the layer you created in 2nd step.

6. Repeat steps for all green/pink areas.

7. When done you will have to flatten the image and change to indexed color. Of course, you will need full palette containing all the colors to properly transform the image to the indexed mode.

[zweihander]

Thanks Stazi!
I found that colours in the last two line of the colour table will show as faction colour ingame, no mater they're Green/Pink or not:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17602&d=1456054984
My method to add faction colour is: open the frame 1.bmp with GIMP, open the colour table, drag the colours you want to show as faction colour to the last two line, save this bmp. Use this bmp as the tamplate, copy other frame on it and save.

[Stazi]

I like your method. It's certainly faster than mine. Good work!

[cegorach]

Very good.

I usually copied/pasted to opened .BMP files extracted from the game replacing old animations.



About the mounts - Stazi could you check if mounts added to those larger files cause problems with new factions? Some files tended to cause CTDs when used by added factions and I'd like to be sure.

If there are no problems some files used by horses/camels can be spared and at least to could be assigned to Landsknechte units which have to be available to new factions.


zweihander

If mounts give us free graphic entries to use it is safe to give the Landsknechts two animation directories occupied by mounts Stazi will clear.

If you really need more tell us, but two is rather generous.


CiV3 animations give a number of interesting options. Personally I am interested in armoured handgunners in a Russian pack.

It will be useful for a number of units in E Europe esp. Russia and Georgia, perhaps even Persia.

17604

If you don't know which pack it is from I'll try to locate it.


Overall if we can clear some directories they can be used. Perhaps even one for more than one type of animation. Seems to be easier with handgunner/musketeer units and we really need some diversity - something for the Balcans (Albania, Greece) and Turkey, something for Scotland and something more for muslim states. If we could use larger frames they all probably could fit into one or two directories.

[zweihander]

About the mounts - Stazi could you check if mounts added to those larger files cause problems with new factions? Some files tended to cause CTDs when used by added factions and I'd like to be sure.



Now, the problem was that game crashes occured as the newly defined faction left the campaign
map for the battle map--oddly this crash would only occur with certain units (e.g., peasants,
highland clansmen, kerns, etc.). I discovered that only those units which were culled from texture
folders associated with face-shields caused the crash. Units drawn from texture folders which are
Adding New Faction Guide for Viking Invasion
21
not associated with face-shields (e.g., archers--which use the texture folder "Pestunic")do not
cause a battle crash. Therefore newly defined factions, such as FN_FREE21 //WELSH, cannot
utilize units which are drawn from the following bif texture folders, as they are associated with
face-shields:
"Peasant"
"ChainHlm"
"HlPlArSH"
"LArmWCav"
"MKnight"
"MSHelm"
"PlateS"
-----Adding New Faction in VI guide, By starkhorn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?30621-Adding-New-Faction-in-VI-guide)

As I know, only these 7 folder will cause CTD.

Currently, I simply place the new landskencht anim into LtOpHelm, which is the currently folder for Doppelsoldner unit, the other units in PMTW also using this folder are Gallowglass and Opolcheniye. I move Gallowglass and Opolcheniye to use the 'Peasant' anim. No idea you would like this idea or not...

Here is a unit I want to convert(and I have already converted it to FTG (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-army-sprite-pack-now-correctly-positioned-on-screens.702000/page-8#post-16733809)! which will reduce my work to convert it to MTW), the Estalian Swordsman (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=17515), it would be useful for those Sword&Shield units in PMTW.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/es_pedia_large_Y30_thumb.pnghttp://ww4.sinaimg.cn/large/81279371jw1ecnlvwz85bj208c08xglw.jpg
But unfortunately, converting the landsknecht cost me a whole day, as school days begin, I would not have time to convert Civ3 uits anymore, at least recently.

Actually, converting civ3 units is not very difficult but need time and great patience. If any one want to learn how to convert, I can tell you the key progress.(but only to those who already have some experience of dealing with unit animations BIF files of MTW, I have no time to write a complete tutorial for beginners, sorry)

[Stazi]

About the mounts - Stazi could you check if mounts added to those larger files cause problems with new factions? Some files tended to cause CTDs when used by added factions and I'd like to be sure.

If there are no problems some files used by horses/camels can be spared and at least to could be assigned to Landsknechte units which have to be available to new factions.

Ok. I'll check it.


If any one want to learn how to convert Civ3 units, I can tell you the key progress.(but only to those who already have some experience of dealing with unit animations BIF files of MTW, I have no time to write a complete tutorial for beginners, sorry)

Please, write it as detailed as you can. I hope I'll get the idea.

[cegorach]

-----Adding New Faction in VI guide, By starkhorn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?30621-Adding-New-Faction-in-VI-guide)

As I know, only these 7 folder will cause CTD.

I know, but with so many discoveries we might also meet new problems and I want to be true with the horses/camels before we clear those directions for our needs.


Currently, I simply place the new landskencht anim into LtOpHelm, which is the currently folder for Doppelsoldner unit, the other units in PMTW also using this folder are Gallowglass and Opolcheniye. I move Gallowglass and Opolcheniye to use the 'Peasant' anim. No idea you would like this idea or not...

Yes, it is fine. Opolcheniye will be altered somehow anyway, right now it appears way too often. Gallowglass might need new animations if we find time and space - could be useful for some Georgian and Circassian units, perhaps even for something in the Balcans and elsewhere.



Actually, converting civ3 units is not very difficult but need time and great patience. If any one want to learn how to convert, I can tell you the key progress.(but only to those who already have some experience of dealing with unit animations BIF files of MTW, I have no time to write a complete tutorial for beginners, sorry)

Oh, yes - the end of the New Year break. I've forgotten about it.

We have time for the animations. If the Dopplen. animations are done we can have them in 1.6. - the rest can wait so no hurry.


I'll stick the thread because it deserves to be close to the top.

[zweihander]

This is a guide of CIv3 unit conversion.

1,Basic infomation about Civ3 unit graphic:

First, you can find civ3 units here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=23
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=60

the unit graphic of Civ3 are in FLC format, now, download the FLICster (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=10208). And open the FLC file with FLICster, you can view the animations in this program:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17609&d=1456119403
Now export them into PCX format, click Export, click Export Type, and use this setting:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17612&d=1456125282
Then set the Output Directory and click 'Export', you get 8 PCX file now.

2, See the PCX file
The PCX file looks like this:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17611&d=1456119701
Now, we have 3 problem that hinder us to turn the PCX into MTW bif format:
1, the background colour is not 0,128,0
2, the shadow colour is not black
3, this is most important, the Civ3 engine allow the edge of the unit surround by many semi-transparent magenta pixels, which represent shadows in Civ3 engine. But the MTW engine doesn't allow this, the edge of the unit must be 'sharp' in MTW engine.

3, Get rid of the problems
Now let's get rid of these 3 issues.

Open the PCX with GIMP

Change the picture to RGB mode (it is in IMAGE > MODE)

Set the Foreground color to 0,128,0 , and set the Background color to black.

Choose the 'select by color tool' on the Toolbox.

Further down on the Toolbox, uncheck the Edge Smoothing and reduce 'Threshold' from the default value of 15 down to zero. This will allow you to choose a single colour on the image instead of several similar ones.

Use the 'select by color tool', and click the center part of the shadow of a unit frame. Now you select the main part of the shadow, but still some shadow pixels around in lighter colour are not under your selection.

press Shift, and select the lighter colour shadow pixels around to add them in your selection, continue doing this until all shadow pixels of this PCX are under your selection.

now, press 'ctrl' and '.' at the same time, now all pxiels under your selection are fill with the Background color(black).

Use the 'select by color tool' again, this time we frist click the pink background. Now you select the main part of the background, but still some shadow pixels around the unit in lighter pink are not under your selection.

press Shift, and select the lighter pink pixels around the unit to add them in your selection, continue doing this until all pink pixels of this PCX are under your selection.

now, press 'ctrl' and ',' at the same time, now all pxiels under your selection are fill with the Foreground color(0,128,0).

Until now we're get rid of all the 3 issues we have mention above, save the PCX in a format you prefer.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17613&d=1456125776
4, Next step?
I want to say nothing more about the next step, chop up the image you have already deal with, create a new BMP file, and put the units into the correct place of the 12 frame of BMPs...

Please ask me if you meet any problem.

[zweihander]

I know, but with so many discoveries we might also meet new problems and I want to be true with the horses/camels before we clear those directions for our needs.



Yes, it is fine. Opolcheniye will be altered somehow anyway, right now it appears way too often. Gallowglass might need new animations if we find time and space - could be useful for some Georgian and Circassian units, perhaps even for something in the Balcans and elsewhere.




Oh, yes - the end of the New Year break. I've forgotten about it.

We have time for the animations. If the Dopplen. animations are done we can have them in 1.6. - the rest can wait so no hurry.


I'll stick the thread because it deserves to be close to the top.

Thanks for stick the thread!
The doppelsoldner unit anim is finished, the file in the #10 post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?151489-Converting-Civilization3-unit-animations&p=2053686672&viewfull=1#post2053686672) is the final version.(Edit the file in post #30 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?151489-Converting-Civilization3-unit-animations&p=2053687043&viewfull=1#post2053687043) now)

[Stazi]

About the mounts - Stazi could you check if mounts added to those larger files cause problems with new factions? Some files tended to cause CTDs when used by added factions and I'd like to be sure.

If there are no problems some files used by horses/camels can be spared and at least to could be assigned to Landsknechte units which have to be available to new factions.


For tests I chose Mousquetaires Du Roi because the unit uses "critical" MSHelm folder. For horses I chose the most popular LiHorse forder.

First, I gave them to ALL_FACTIONS and started a few custom battles. Unfortunately, this unit cause CTD with new factions like Khazan, Livonia, etc. The new 1024p textures, obviously, cause CTD too.

Second, I changed the texture in LiHorse and MSHelm folders (leaving Mousquetaires Du Roi to FN_FRENCH as intended). This time all worked smoothly. No crashes.

Both steps were tested with several different units and faction setups.

Conclusions:

1. Technically, 1024p textures works the same as 512p. CTDs are caused by "critical" folders and new factions, not textures.

2. Resizing mount textures to 1024p have to be followed by resizing all riders' folders (they have to be proportional because mounts don't have their own SCALE parameter). It involves changing/tuning all animations rectangles. Weapons and shields too. The whole procedure makes cavalry smaller so all infantry has to be scaled down accordingly or changed to 1024p too. Smaller models need also changes in UNIT_PROD (parameters like: RADIUS, FORMATION_WIDTH_SPACING, FORMATION_LENGTH_SPACING). Without it all units looks like in loose formation all the time. It looks the same like reducing a unit SCALE - leaves too much space between soldiers.

The whole process is quite easy but very time consuming. It can be done for 2.0 but probably not for 1.6.
All this testing thing gave me some new ideas. I let you know if I find something interesting.

[cegorach]

Ok, so we cannot use this approach unless ALL graphic files for units are changed as well? Is that right?

Have you encountered any problems with the palette e.g. some animations are impossible to import to the same, larger file with other animations? I think it could be a problem in some cases.


There are units in the game which are using Shogun TW and Middle Earth mod graphics - almost only for Tartar cavalry.

I wonder if LiHorse horses and those animations where the WHOLE horse & rider is placed can be thrown into the same file (similar colours should help) and used as a testing subjects.
I wonder if in the case of combined horse & rider supported by imported LiHorse graphics animations manipulating the scale will be easier and give us something which can be fielded side by side with the older graphics.

Original LiHorse would stay where it is right now, but this new file could include Tartars and horse animations from LiHorse (besides it is necessary for Tartar units with two steeds) - this way it could work better and won't require too many changes + could serve us well in the future saving space and in the end clear original LiHorse directory for something else.





BTW I realise how time consuming the process is, but perhaps in thise unique case results will be easier to implement without the need to change all animations in the game.

Also, does Middle Earth or Napoleonic TW have other mount animations? I mean white or black horses. If in the end we will find ourselves with so much space in graphic files and all cavalrymen animations will have to be changed anyway we could add some variety also in this department.

Just to be clear I have permission to use NTW animations, but not LOTR graphics except the single one PMTW uses already.

Anyway that is for the much, much later stage.


I am looking forward to the new ideas if there are any. New graphics can wait, but if we learn more about those files it will save us some trouble in the future.

If for example we get rid off the 'troublesome', CTD causing directories because we won't need them anymore that would be a nice bonus, even though the units which use them are meant to be rare and unlikely to be received by bribery.

[Stazi]

Ok, so we cannot use this approach unless ALL graphic files for units are changed as well? Is that right?

Generally, yes.


Have you encountered any problems with the palette e.g. some animations are impossible to import to the same, larger file with other animations? I think it could be a problem in some cases.

I haven't encountered any problems till now. What do you have in mind exactly?



There are units in the game which are using Shogun TW and Middle Earth mod graphics - almost only for Tartar cavalry.

Yes, I saw them. Not all of them are used right now (in 1.5). IIRC textures from folders: MONGHCAV, PLATECAV and PLATES are not used at all in any of the 3 campaigns.


I wonder if LiHorse horses and those animations where the WHOLE horse & rider is placed can be thrown into the same file (similar colours should help) and used as a testing subjects.

Do you mean like that mongol heavy cavalry from MONGHCAV folder combined with LiHorse texture? I think it'll work. You already use KHorse and EHorse folders for something totally different than horses. btw We have to remember that some horse folder names are linked to special features like ArmHorse and EHorse being armored and thus more resistant to enemy fire (I'm not sure about camel because there is a special column in UNIT_PROD file that specifies HORSE/CAMEL/NONE). But I think it only works that way when those folders are used for mounts.



I wonder if in the case of combined horse & rider supported by imported LiHorse graphics animations manipulating the scale will be easier and give us something which can be fielded side by side with the older graphics.

Hmm.. nice idea. You mean like placing rider over a horse in one texture, in the same frame, right? This can work but rider combined with horse will make much bigger frames and thus less space for other units in texture.



Original LiHorse would stay where it is right now, but this new file could include Tartars and horse animations from LiHorse (besides it is necessary for Tartar units with two steeds) - this way it could work better and won't require too many changes + could serve us well in the future saving space and in the end clear original LiHorse directory for something else.

If I understand it right, horses combined with riders won't save us that much space. As I said above, such animations will have much bigger frames, especially that you'll need to resize htem up at least 50% to have some space for SCALE manipulation. When you put 512p textures into 1024p texture, soldiers are always too small comparing to old ones (even with maxed SCALE). Hmm.. I'll make one unit in 1024p and you'll see how it looks.


BTW I realise how time consuming the process is, but perhaps in thise unique case results will be easier to implement without the need to change all animations in the game.


Also, does Middle Earth or Napoleonic TW have other mount animations? I mean white or black horses.

LOTR has one black horse. It's just recolored LiHorse.


Just to be clear I have permission to use NTW animations, but not LOTR graphics except the single one PMTW uses already.

A few years ago I sent PMs to all creators form Middle-Eaath team I found. The one that answered said me something like "do whatever you want. No one really cares now".

[cegorach]

I haven't encountered any problems till now. What do you have in mind exactly?

Some files in PMTW include animations which were set to very specific colours, I do believe that if four different animations will be used in a single file it can cause some problems.

I'd suggest to try it in some cases - a single pose from a file each should be enough to see if the animations can 'co-exist' in the same file.





Yes, I saw them. Not all of them are used right now (in 1.5). IIRC textures from folders: MONGHCAV, PLATECAV and PLATES are not used at all in any of the 3 campaigns.

They are in 2.0 and will be used in 1.6.




Do you mean like that mongol heavy cavalry from MONGHCAV folder combined with LiHorse texture? I think it'll work. You already use KHorse and EHorse folders for something totally different than horses. btw We have to remember that some horse folder names are linked to special features like ArmHorse and EHorse being armored and thus more resistant to enemy fire (I'm not sure about camel because there is a special column in UNIT_PROD file that specifies HORSE/CAMEL/NONE). But I think it only works that way when those folders are used for mounts.

Something like that, but also in general files which right now feature a whole rider on a horse, and combined with a separate horse animation (LiHorse) on this 4 times bigger picture.





Hmm.. nice idea. You mean like placing rider over a horse in one texture, in the same frame, right? This can work but rider combined with horse will make much bigger frames and thus less space for other units in texture.

Actually I thought about using the same file for four animations - including one of a horse and another with a rider on a horse (Tartar animations from STW) - placing them in the same 1024x1024 file could serve as a nice field for testing - to see how rider on a horse looks like compared to cavalry using old, 512x512 files.
Because this cavalry animation sometimes has to use two mounts (one unit) as I wanted it would be a nice place to keep LiHorse animation intended for future cavalry.
Right now it could be used to check if the problem with the scale can be solved by placing horse animation in the same place as rider animation and only by manipulating with numbers in unit_prod file.

Think of it as a temporary solution and a way to test something.





If I understand it right, horses combined with riders won't save us that much space. As I said above, such animations will have much bigger frames, especially that you'll need to resize htem up at least 50% to have some space for SCALE manipulation. When you put 512p textures into 1024p texture, soldiers are always too small comparing to old ones (even with maxed SCALE). Hmm.. I'll make one unit in 1024p and you'll see how it looks.

I had to cut stuff from Shogun TW animations because STW graphics use two files for cavalry instead of one, so Tartars do not use all of moves available in STW, but about half of them (it was very had to choose).

On bigger 1024p files ALL STW graphics could be used and would take just a half of 1024p file. But it is perfectly enough if only current Tartar riding horse animation is imported and tested to see how a rider on a horse looks like and how much different can it be with different scale compared to the current cavalry.






LOTR has one black horse. It's just recolored LiHorse.

A few years ago I sent PMs to all creators form Middle-Eaath team I found. The one that answered said me something like "do whatever you want. No one really cares now".

This means that black horses are available. White/grey ones can be used from NTW.

If one 1024p file will be used eventually for four mounts one LiHorse directory will give us a dazzling variety of unarmoured horses and will help in making some units visually different from others which use the very same rider animation.

In such a case:


btw We have to remember that some horse folder names are linked to special features like ArmHorse and EHorse being armored and thus more resistant to enemy fire

one of those two directories could be given to better protected mounts or for units which had more than one mount kept in a reserve - something which doesn't have to be visable.

[cegorach]

P.S. When it comes to PMTW animations we were trying to squeeze as much as possible in a single file.

This means that sometimes various units use various parts of a file. Could be a nightmare to convert to 1024p.

I'll better post images of the new map how I see it and upload the files.

It should be ready to Friday. I'll have to compare it to the event list before it is done.
It is better to use as many useful & meaningful event features as possible.

[Stazi]

If one 1024p file will be used eventually for four mounts one LiHorse directory will give us a dazzling variety of unarmoured horses and will help in making some units visually different from others which use the very same rider animation.

Horses can have faction coloring like any other units. We can recolor some parts like harness or blanket under the saddle so every faction will have their own, slightly different looking horses.

[cegorach]

Of course, but a variety of horses would be a nice thing.

Not now, but in the end when the conversion to 1024p is complete.

We have nothing but time for that if Civ3 animations can be converted relatively easily.


Easily compared to what we had to do before with YanTraken - he was drawing the poses and I've been copying/pasting them into .BMPs frame by frame and setting that in the game. Wonders of Windows Paint and MTW modding tools.




If even 8 new animations are added in the end it will be huge.

Hell, maybe I'll try to learn how to import Aztec and Inca warriors for custom game/MP game only factions.

Thanks to your discoveries we have at least a possibility and that is a lot.

[zweihander]

Easily compared to what we had to do before with YanTraken - he was drawing the poses and I've been copying/pasting them into .BMPs frame by frame and setting that in the game. Wonders of Windows Paint and MTW modding tools.




I know many unit anims in PMTW such as the RussianMusketeer(Str…), CossackMusketeer(Zapo…), Janissary, Free Lancer, Men at Arm etc. are obviously made by hand-drawing. But I'm curious about the Winged Hussar, which is the best quality unit anim and even better than the original MTW's, are they hand-drawing or convert to 2d from a 3d model?
(p.s. IIRC once I have saw a early Winged Hussar with only one wing animation in a directory(forget which one now), but I never see them in game? )

And as I said before, I have ask BG to draw some landsknechts(but he is quite busy right now), so I would just consider the Civ3 Landsknecht a tempory solution of the Doppelsoldner unit for 1.6--after all it is not in the best quality due to the original image's small size. What I have not mention brfore is that I ask BC to draw 4 kinds of landsknecht(Doppelsoldner, Forlorn hope, armoured Pike/Halberd/Musket, unarmoured Pike/halberd/Musket), and I was worry about there are no enough directories for them before. But not a problem right now! Once the 1024p method is done, I can easily put the 4 landsknechts in one bif, since they would be in similar colour it would not be hard to do so.



Hell, maybe I'll try to learn how to import Aztec and Inca warriors for custom game/MP game only factions.



Well… Not a good idea IMO. Just think it is ridiculus to see Native Americans fighting in Europe…

---------------------------------------------------

Another problem I met is, if you want to add dead bodies in PMTW, and you use the 1024p method at the same time, you will find that when you increase the unit scale to 225, its dead body is increase to 225% size too, it means that a small man died on the battlefield would leave a giant dead body… Edit/remake the dead_bodies.LBM is necessary.

[cegorach]

But I'm curious about the Winged Hussar, which is the best quality unit anim and even better than the original MTW's, are they hand-drawing or convert to 2d from a 3d model?
(p.s. IIRC once I have saw a early Winged Hussar with only one wing animation in a directory(forget which one now), but I never see them in game? )

Eastside Character made the original drawing (no poses, 4 angles) and YanTraken improved it.
One-wing Hussars are available in one campaign for P-L Commonwealth. It was designed with historical battles in mind.


And as I said before, I have ask BC to draw some landsknechts(but he is quite busy right now), so I would just consider the Civ3 Landsknecht a tempory solution of the Doppelsoldner unit for 1.6--after all it is not in the best quality due to the original image's small size. What I have not mention brfore is that I ask BC to draw 4 kinds of landsknecht(Doppelsoldner, Forlorn hope, armoured Pike/Halberd/Musket, unarmoured Pike/halberd/Musket), and I was worry about there are no enough directories for them before. But not a problem right now! Once the 1024p method is done, I can easily put the 4 landsknechts in one bif, since they would be in similar colour it would not be hard to do so.

It is A LOT already. One of my favourite units actually, so nice somebody did the actual work.




Well… Not a good idea IMO. Just think it is ridiculus to see Native Americans fighting in Europe…

Just for custom battles, much like Iroquis or Uzbeks.

[Stazi]

Another problem I met is, if you want to add dead bodies in PMTW, and you use the 1024p method at the same time, you will find that when you increase the unit scale to 225, its dead body is increase to 225% size too, it means that a small man died on the battlefield would leave a giant dead body… Edit/remake the dead_bodies.LBM is necessary.

That's why I'm think we shouldn't try to keep the original unit size but rework all units to 1024p and leave them smaller (without changing the scale or eventually setting the same scale for all units). If we try to manipulate the scale of certain units, some bodies will be always bigger than others.

[zweihander]

Update the Civ3 Doppelsoldner unit graphic. I fix some missing pixels manually, it should performs better ingame now.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117057228017927/41B190B042EBC7AD629813518A3710A34216C527/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117057227900713/05ECDB3DC7D63FAC8D1E245A4F597CDAA8F4A814/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117057227904243/9FCBD906A3F93FB33709249D70724C28A9B99787/


Edit: Ah... Sorry, fix a little bug, please download again...

Edit2: oh no, the attachment contains the wrong file, please download again... I promise this is the last edit...

[Stazi]

CTDs are caused by "critical" folders and new factions, not textures.

I've done some tests and it appears that the problem persists no matter what tricks I try. The problem is not directly connected with new factions. First, 20 factions declared in startpos work flawlessly. This includes Scots (19th) and Moldavian (20th) which are new factions. All the next factions (21-30) have about 90% of causing CTD. Sometimes they work, especially when one of those 20 factions used the problematic unit folder before. So, it looks like some hardcoded limit form MTW 1.0 that devs forget to change in later, more mod friendly versions.

IMHO factions 21-30 should be the smallest and poorest of all to minimize the chance of bribery and CTD.

[zweihander]

I think it would be more efficient to convert Civ3 units if we can cooperate together.

I already export the Estalian Swordsman(made by T-mun) into BMP format(files in the 'Custom6.rar' attachment) and already get rid of the background/shadow/semi-transparent pixels obstacles. The files are look like this:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17626&d=1456239869

The only remained step is to cut and paste these pieces into 12 BMP frames and import them into a BIF. Anyone like to help?:pray:

Hope someone can help with this, it would reduce my workload.:grin: If no one want to do this, I would find some time to finish the frames later.

[Stazi]

I'll be glad to help but I have limited time too. I'm still working on those 1024p textures. I have some problems with weapons and shields placement as they are not as easy to define as animation frames. When I have more free time I'll let you know.

[Stazi]

More tests and more results. First the file I've prepared:
17632
LOTR black horse on the bottom right. Not as black as original mongol horse but I think black enough.


I declared Atli Tatarlar as "LIHORSE, YES, YES, LiHorse" and here are results:
17631
A you can see spaces between soldiers have to be reduced.


How they look comparing to the size of Tatars from old 512p texture (below). You can see that old/big Tatars already use additinal small LiHorse (they use the same LiHorse folder for their mount). This is how they look without touching the SCALE.
An advantage is that smaller soldier sprites don't get anti-aliased and blurred that much as old, bigger units. They look sharp despite their low resolution.
17630

So, i think we can use any combination we want. Using the same folder for horse and horse+rider is not a problem.

[cegorach]

Good to see how it looks. Can you post images after you manipulate the scale of the models? Comparison with 'normal' animations will be nice to see.

Similar with cavalry which uses weapons - I suspect moving those spears can be tricky in 1024p file.


For now no need to convert the animations, that will take a lot of time which right now can be used for something more valuable.

Animations can wait as long as necessary to make them and as long as confortable it is to find time for this work - hardly most pleasant activity give the number of files to convert, in my opinion.

I think that if there are any ideas for new animations those can be made in 1024p files - won't be available in 1.6, but it will save the effort to rework them for 2.0.



It is a small wonder how much can be done with this game. Outstanding how much space for modding was left by the creators, I guess they never suspected we could use those possibilities whenever they've left those by mistake or intentionally...
after all all this stuff actually works in the game even if it is so far from the original.

[Stazi]

Good to see how it looks. Can you post images after you manipulate the scale of the models? Comparison with 'normal' animations will be nice to see.

Scale set to max (225). On the right is new Atli Tatarlar, on the left old Izci Tatarlar. Surprisingly, they look exactly the same as the old ones. Usually there is a 20-30% difference.
17634


Similar with cavalry which uses weapons - I suspect moving those spears can be tricky in 1024p file.

I'll make one tomorrow. Yes, it's tricky because I can't use Excel to automate recalculation of frame rectangles. Readbif is a little cumbersome to use.



It is a small wonder how much can be done with this game. Outstanding how much space for modding was left by the creators, I guess they never suspected we could use those possibilities whenever they've left those by mistake or intentionally...
after all all this stuff actually works in the game even if it is so far from the original.

Exactly! That's the main reason I enjoy digging in this stuff over and over again. Nearly, every time I found something I didn't know before. For example we use resized to 31px width (and thus distorted) EU2 shields for campaign map pieces while we can use use them as they are about 50px width. It's a small thing but ugliness of those shields really bothered me.

[zweihander]

A question:
For example, if I put a unit animation into a 512p bif and set its scale too 100. Then I put the same unit animation to a 1024p bif and set its scale to 200, but no other changes, the colour table remain the same.
In this case, is there any difference between these two unit in game? any anti-aliased/blurred difference?

[Stazi]

A question:
For example, if I put a unit animation into a 512p bif and set its scale too 100. Then I put the same unit animation to a 1024p bif and set its scale to 200, but no other changes, the colour table remain the same.

They look very similar. Difference is very small if any.


In this case, is there any difference between these two unit in game? any anti-aliased/blurred difference?

Image quality looks he same too.

But, as you mentioned before, their bodies will be different (twice as big for scale 200) because we have only one file with all bodies of the same size.

[zweihander]

Thanks!

To those weapons and shields, I think move them to a 1024p bif only need to edit the CustomX/Weapons.txt, but don't need to edit the Items/WeaponX/UnitName.txt, is this right?

[zweihander]

Got the permission from T-mun today and I finished the idle pose and test it in game.

Obviously, it is smaller than the Landsknecht I converted before though I increase its scale to 225, because Civ3 unit graphics are made in different size by different modders. But if we use the 1024p method in the future and all units are a bit smaller, this would not be a big problem IMO.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117166524750176/526E388768FDFDE5E97C67415CCE4317FEB1D363/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117166524745837/3676DD9B63D6C3763FB80A463C15B388F0FCA19A/

[cegorach]

Scale set to max (225). On the right is new Atli Tatarlar, on the left old Izci Tatarlar. Surprisingly, they look exactly the same as the old ones. Usually there is a 20-30% difference.
17634

So those odd, small horses are from which file - I assume the new one, right?


[QUOTE]
I'll make one tomorrow. Yes, it's tricky because I can't use Excel to automate recalculation of frame rectangles. Readbif is a little cumbersome to use.

That makes all those unit animations where soldiers appear with weapons in their hands (most of infantry in PMTW) considerably easier to convert to 1024p. Good. There is a large number of those which could be easily (but time consuming) imported to bigger files. Good.





Exactly! That's the main reason I enjoy digging in this stuff over and over again. Nearly, every time I found something I didn't know before. For example we use resized to 31px width (and thus distorted) EU2 shields for campaign map pieces while we can use use them as they are about 50px width. It's a small thing but ugliness of those shields really bothered me.

Yes, the shileld problem really bothered me too, but I didn't want to test the engine with something like this. All the better it can be done.

[cegorach]

Scale set to max (225). On the right is new Atli Tatarlar, on the left old Izci Tatarlar. Surprisingly, they look exactly the same as the old ones. Usually there is a 20-30% difference.
17634

In such a case we might be able to include them in 1.6 - solely for those couple of Tartar units (heavy cavalry can use old directory, no need to change it).
Mount files do not need to use old horse graphic directories? In this case no need to change LiHorse .txt, just add another one using the mount in re-scaled Tartar file.

By keeping the Tartar animations in the same animation directory they are now we'd avoid many problems - much less work with Unit.prod files, unit .txt files changed, but only those very few which alread use Tartar cavalry animations.
At the same time we could use the opportunity to test the graphics in the game a little earlier and it would spare some work in the future since the file will be already there.

Current LiHorse can stay the same right now and will be a useful directory to explore when/if all cavalry graphics are changed for 2.0.

[cegorach]

BTW Here is the grey horse from NTW. I have a permission from years back so it can be used by us in the future.


graphics

17636

action page

17637

[Stazi]

Thanks!

To those weapons and shields, I think move them to a 1024p bif only need to edit the CustomX/Weapons.txt, but don't need to edit the Items/WeaponX/UnitName.txt, is this right?

I have to edit every single charge, walk, fight.txt files. If I don't, weapons and shields float above soldiers heads. X,Y origin for weapons is related to a frame rectangle. 1024p textures have smaller frame rectangles (half height, half wight) and that's why all those weapon/shield animations have to be recalculated. But don't worry. I've found that they can be recalculated via Excel too. They just need different formulas.

There is also one more little issue about weapons in 1024p. It looks like this:
http://www.runners-world.pl/forum/uploads/blog-0441626001378806454.jpg

Poles are simply too thick. We'll probably need to manually edit texture and thinner them a bit. That's something I need to test.



Scale set to max (225). On the right is new Atli Tatarlar, on the left old Izci Tatarlar. Surprisingly, they look exactly the same as the old ones. Usually there is a 20-30% difference.
17634

So those odd, small horses are from which file - I assume the new one, right?

Izci Tatarlar on the left uses old 512p texture for soldier (MOCOSCAV) and new 1024p texture LiHorse folder for mount - "MOCOSCAV, YES, YES, LiHorse".
Atli Tatarlar on the right takes all graphics from the same LiHorse folder so horses have the same size - "LIHORSE, YES, YES, LiHorse"

[zweihander]

That makes all those unit animations where soldiers appear with weapons in their hands (most of infantry in PMTW) considerably easier to convert to 1024p. Good. There is a large number of those which could be easily (but time consuming) imported to bigger files. Good.


I suggest to move Custom7, CUSTOM8, HUSCARLE and LgTuCnHi into one 1024p BIF if possible. These 4 are all hand-drawing infantry unit in similar colours and without weapon/shield items.


I have to edit every single charge, walk, fight.txt files. If I don't, weapons and shields float above soldiers heads. X,Y origin for weapons is related to a frame rectangle. 1024p textures have smaller frame rectangles (half height, half wight) and that's why all those weapon/shield animations have to be recalculated. But don't worry. I've found that they can be recalculated via Excel too. They just need different formulas.

There is also one more little issue about weapons in 1024p. It looks like this:
http://www.runners-world.pl/forum/uploads/blog-0441626001378806454.jpg

Poles are simply too thick. We'll probably need to manually edit texture and thinner them a bit. That's something I need to test.

Oh no, editing those files is a nightmare...

About the width of the weapons, I have a little discovery, tell you later when I back to my own computer tonight.

[cegorach]

I suggest to move Custom7, CUSTOM8, HUSCARLE and LgTuCnHi into one 1024p BIF if possible. These 4 are all hand-drawing infantry unit in similar colours and without weapon/shield items.

A fair point, no hurry, but directories worth remembering for the future.

[cegorach]

A short summary of animation directories which cause CTDs:

"Peasant"

Used by Spanish Archeros, Russian Oprychniki and Turkish elite cavalry.


"ChainHlm"

Solely for armoured steeds used by Mamluks and perhaps by Turkey.


"HlPlArSH"


Only for Imperial ( German_HRE) dragoons.



"LArmWCav"


Solely for French dragoons in later XVII century.



"MKnight"

Skii infantry only.



"MSHelm"


One-winged Polish Hussars, Spanish light cavalry, French royal musketeers.


"PlateS"


Only for Polish infantry/dragoons of late period, can be used for Russian elite infantry/dragoons in blue uniforms.

I suppose you haven't seen the last one? I am not sure I have ever posted their image, but there was some work involved and I am not 100% sure I have finished this unit. I'll have to check soon.

EDIT - yeah, they are ready:

https://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo69/cegorach77/PMTW%20dwa/pol%20late%20infantry.png (http://s362.photobucket.com/user/cegorach77/media/PMTW%20dwa/pol%20late%20infantry.png.html)

The unit in game, next to Lithuanian Hussars (no wings).

The animations are altered Russian Streltsy with different faces, caps, berdishes and blue uniforms.

https://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo69/cegorach77/PMTW%20dwa/late%202.png (http://s362.photobucket.com/user/cegorach77/media/PMTW%20dwa/late%202.png.html)


"Peasant"
"ChainHlm"
"HlPlArSH"
"LArmWCav"
"MKnight"
"MSHelm"
"PlateS"

A number of those can be easily combined as long as the palettes allow that. Blue uniforms is something I really want to save for those guys who are using them, same for colourful uniforms of certain units.

All those animations are assigned to rare units used by main factions, so very unlikely to cause CTDs, but if they are combined it will take no more than 2 directories to make the units safe to use, all of them.
This way some could find different uses if we want to, not many though because they were made often for very specific units and nothing else.

[zweihander]

You have already shown it here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?32089-XVI-XVII-mod&p=1830495&viewfull=1#post1830495).~;p
And I'm interested in another unit anim showed in the same post, the Bavarian cavalry (https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/cegorach/00000079.jpg) charging with a longsword(an estoc?), is it already in 1.5 or will be in 1.6, or 2.0?






Stazi


About the width of the weapons, I have a little discovery, tell you later when I back to my own computer tonight.
For example, this is a weapon's code in the WEAPONS.TXT:
53,190,87,204,3,4
as you know, it is x1,y1,x2,y2,length,width
if you change the number of y1 smaller and y2 bigger, such as:
53,180,87,214,3,4
then, the weapon will looks much thiner in game.

[Stazi]

For example, this is a weapon's code in the WEAPONS.TXT:
53,190,87,204,3,4
as you know, it is x1,y1,x2,y2,length,width
if you change the number of y1 smaller and y2 bigger, such as:
53,180,87,214,3,4
then, the weapon will looks much thiner in game.

Ha! It's so obvious when you know about it. Thanks a lot!

[cegorach]

You have already shown it here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?32089-XVI-XVII-mod&p=1830495&viewfull=1#post1830495).~;p
And I'm interested in another unit anim showed in the same post, the Bavarian cavalry (https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/cegorach/00000079.jpg) charging with a longsword(an estoc?), is it already in 1.5 or will be in 1.6, or 2.0?

Oh, well at least the dragoon pose is here to see.


Bavarians are the famous 'one angle trick' used so often in the mod.

https://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo69/cegorach77/PMTW%20dwa/late%203.png (http://s362.photobucket.com/user/cegorach77/media/PMTW%20dwa/late%203.png.html)

[zweihander]

Cegorach, it is possible that add weapons(swords/sabers) on the body's hand in the fighting anim for all hand-drawing cavalry unit animations, just like the winged hussar's fighting anim?
You know, the 'item' swords/sabers always floating on the sky when fighting...:wall:

[cegorach]

Depends on space and what weapons are in use.

As you can see there wasn't enough of space for weapons in hands, but I suppose with 1024p it is doable as long as there is someone willing to do it.

Obviously not every single weapon can be added/used - spears, lances and pikes have to be kept separately.
Swords, sabres, rapiers etc are easier.

Cavalry animations usually use something like three-four poses for attack moves and repeat them as many times as it is necessary.
So it is a question of 12-16 small images for each cavalry unit which uses such weapons.

[Stazi]

Oh no, editing those files is a nightmare...

I've just tested it. All you need to do is divide all x,y pairs by 2 (it takes like 1 second in Excel). Generally, all the numbers except the last in each line which is always 0 or 1. For weapons it looks like this:


x1 y1 x2 y2 z

-1 -27 -5 -30 0
0 -26 -4 -32 0
0 -22 -2 -28 0
1 -22 -2 -28 0
0 -24 -2 -31 0
0 -24 -3 -31 0
-1 -27 -5 -30 0
0 -27 -5 -27 0
-1 -27 -6 -27 0
0 -27 -5 -26 0
0 -26 -4 -27 0
0 -26 -4 -27 0


I pretty sure similar approach will work on shields.

1024p Mongol Heavy Cavalry in all its glory. :yes:

17649

Those spears rendered before the soldier don't looks that good. Maybe I should move them behind the horsemen?

[Stazi]

So, because we sorted out most of the problems concerning 1024p textures I'd like to know what to do? Which animations go to which folder - that kind of things. I'd like to start making a real progress on this. Except the map, new/renewed units are probably the most important part.

[cegorach]

I thought it could wait, but if you wish to start I'll have a look tomorrow. It will require checking the palettes so that certain colours aren't lost.


It was sensibly suggested to combine Custom7, CUSTOM8, HUSCARLE and LgTuCnHi in one directory - I'd pick Custom7 for simplicity, but you can choose if you wish.

It is all infantry with handguns and no weapons, so should be easier.

[cegorach]

Those spears rendered before the soldier don't looks that good. Maybe I should move them behind the horsemen?

Yes, in this case it will make it look much better, at least from close distance.

[Stazi]

I thought it could wait, but if you wish to start I'll have a look tomorrow. It will require checking the palettes so that certain colours aren't lost.

Don't worry. I'll take care of the palettes. Just let me know what goes where. If there be any chance of losing something I'll ask you what to do but judging on what I've seen the new, hand-drawn units don't use as much colors as the old ones.

But if we want to wait with those units so what should I do now? GUI certainly can wait as we already has one. A totally new units from CIV3?

[cegorach]

But if we want to wait with those units so what should I do now? GUI certainly can wait as we already has one. A totally new units from CIV3?

Ok, so let's begin with the conversion.

It will have to happen sooner or later and new animations from CiV3 should be imported to 1024p files because they will end like ones anyway.



Please start with those four units, just tell me the file where they will be. I'll build a list who goes were soon.



Also, since you have the permission why not import some graphics from LOTR?

I had a look and

Dervish can work well as Gallowglass,

Janni are all right for some sneaky highland guerillas,

PesTunic - are necessary for dismounted nomads,

and even MongCost could be useful if we need rangers in hoods and armed with bows and swords. The last one is rather unlikely to find any use, so is unnecessary, but the rest seems pretty good.

[cegorach]

I'll use this post for the list of combined animations showing which directories will be available.



LiHorse - done and full

Mocoscav

MonghHkav

are empty




Custom7, CUSTOM8, HUSCARLE and LgTuCnHi

go to ?

[zweihander]

It will have to happen sooner or later and new animations from CiV3 should be imported to 1024p files because they will end like ones anyway

Ah, you forget about the size of the civ3 units… if they're imported into a 1024p bif, that they will become extrmely small. They can only imported into 512p bif IMO.

[zweihander]

Excuse me, can someone provide a download link of LOTR mod?

Edit: is it the 'MetwBeta7.0.exe' on the ORG's download database?

[cegorach]

Ah, you forget about the size of the civ3 units… if they're imported into a 1024p bif, that they will become extrmely small. They can only imported into 512p bif IMO.

Ok, there will be many empty files they can use. Not a problem.

LOTR mod - yes, I have used this install to check what is useful.

[Stazi]

Ah, you forget about the size of the civ3 units… if they're imported into a 1024p bif, that they will become extrmely small. They can only imported into 512p bif IMO.

I'm just working on this. It seems that doubling the image size will do. Of course, images are generally low-res and doubling the size doesn't improve that. Maybe there is a different game with better animations? But I doubt there is one with such rich unit selection as Civ3.

[zweihander]

I against the idea of doubling the size of a Civ3 unit, this would damage its image quality. I think put them in a 512p bif is just ok. There are enough directories. And since the size of civ3 units is small. we can even put more than one units into one 512p BIF if we find some units in similar colour.


Edit:Forget it, this would not damage the quality. It worth a try.

Edit2: I test it, doubling the size of a Civ3 unit would make it looks 'sharper' in game, as the image quality is not very good, it doesn't make it looks better IMO. I still prefer to put them in 512

--------------------------------------------------

Anyway, the Swordsmen by T-mun is fully converted, see the screenshots and download it from the attachment.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117166529233676/8BD6E279D71526F9DCBE553A96B9A3651E90D61A/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117166529232460/29430BE3C85D2BF1444FD6E16B08CC587B91D017/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117166529231528/757ABE0255CB6DBD4CE0DA526AA0F1D57AB2BA7A/

[cegorach]

Stazi & zweihander

Could you use one post for all animation changes you are making/importing?
I'll track the changes and post where is what in a single post.

This should make it easier for all of us.



I'm just working on this. It seems that doubling the image size will do. Of course, images are generally low-res and doubling the size doesn't improve that. Maybe there is a different game with better animations? But I doubt there is one with such rich unit selection as Civ3.


One small suggestion - for the sake of making it easier for everybody when compiling animations into 1024p files please use directories other than Custom1-9.

At least for now let's leave those for new animations.

For obvious reasons directories likely to cause CTDs should be left alone. They can have their uses for unit which are MP/custom battles only such as the Iroquis' units.

[zweihander]

Stazi & zweihander

Could you use one post for all animation changes you are making/importing?
I'll track the changes and post where is what in a single post.

This should make it easier for all of us.




Should I start a new thread in which only post completed new unit animations?

[Stazi]

Edit:Forget it, this would not damage the quality. It worth a try.

Edit2: I test it, doubling the size of a Civ3 unit would make it looks 'sharper' in game, as the image quality is not very good, it doesn't make it looks better IMO. I still prefer to put them in 512

I'd like to have dead bodies of the same size (no lilliputs and giants lying around). To achieve this we need to make all soldiers textures the same or similar size to avoid SCALE manipulation because different scales make bodies size different. This is all or nothing situation. We have to rework all units into 1024p AND keep their size as similar as possible OR leave everything as it is in 512p. But If you decide to not have dead bodies at all then we can mix 512 and 1024 textures. I don't want to force my point of view but that's how I see it.

[cegorach]

Should I start a new thread in which only post completed new unit animations?

Yes, that would be a good idea.

One post per finished unit would be all right.

In this case editing one post will not help - we need to show that there is some progress.

Also I'd like to leave all discussions to THIS thread, the new thread should be only about final results.

[cegorach]

I'd like to have dead bodies of the same size (no lilliputs and giants lying around). To achieve this we need to make all soldiers textures the same or similar size to avoid SCALE manipulation because different scales make bodies size different. This is all or nothing situation. We have to rework all units into 1024p AND keep their size as similar as possible OR leave everything as it is in 512p. But If you decide to not have dead bodies at all then we can mix 512 and 1024 textures. I don't want to force my point of view but that's how I see it.

Since I don't care much about dead bodies as long as there are new animations I'll leave the decision to the both of you.

[cegorach]

Here are some units from Civ3 which could be necessary. Eventually, so can wait.

Animations are very good and include two modes of attack in the case of a musketeers.

Highland Clansman

17651

Scottish Musketeer

17652

movable artillery if we decide that it is necessary

17653

French Guard Musketeers on foot

17654

Italian musketeer - perfect for western irregulars/light infantry with firearms

17655

Ottoman and Bosniak infantry units with firearms to give several animation options for muslim countries

17658

17657

17656


zweihander

Can you have a look? They look pretty well in my opinion. I am not sure if you can find something better.

[Stazi]

Just an idea but why not try to ask guys who created those units about exporting animations to higher resolution? Sprites were surely made form 3d animated models so it shouldn't be much of a problem for them. I know nothing about Civ3 community but I can ask those guys if you point me to a thread where you found a unit. Many of them maybe out of business now but I think its worth a try. They're all moders like us so I'm sure they'll understand why we're asking about it. Units are IMHO the most important part and we'd be aiming for the top quality.

[zweihander]

I'd like to have dead bodies of the same size (no lilliputs and giants lying around). To achieve this we need to make all soldiers textures the same or similar size to avoid SCALE manipulation because different scales make bodies size different. This is all or nothing situation. We have to rework all units into 1024p AND keep their size as similar as possible OR leave everything as it is in 512p. But If you decide to not have dead bodies at all then we can mix 512 and 1024 textures. I don't want to force my point of view but that's how I see it.

My opinion is:

Mix 512 and 1024 textures, for better performance of living soldiers, which is more important than deadbodies IMO.
But this doesn't mean that I abandon the deadbodies. We can modify the DEAD256.LBM, for example, as the original LtOpHelm animation is replace by Civ3 landsnkencht now, we can also modify the DEAD256.LBM, replace the original LtOpHelm dead body by a 50% size landsknecht dead body on the DEAD256.LBM.

This is my opinion.

[Stazi]

My opinion is:

Mix 512 and 1024 textures, for better performance of living soldiers, which is more important than deadbodies IMO.
But this doesn't mean that I abandon the deadbodies. We can modify the DEAD256.LBM, for example, as the original LtOpHelm animation is replace by Civ3 landsnkencht now, we can also modify the DEAD256.LBM, replace the original LtOpHelm dead body by a 50% size landsknecht dead body on the DEAD256.LBM.

This is my opinion.

Reducing the size of dead bodies which are already very low 256p quality? It'll make them an unrecognizable groups of pixels. But.. ok. If you both don't care about dead bodies we go the mixed way.

@cegorach (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?7236-cegorach), @zweihander (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?97432-zweihander) - let me know what you think about my previous post.

[zweihander]

Just an idea but why not try to ask guys who created those units about exporting animations to higher resolution? Sprites were surely made form 3d animated models so it shouldn't be much of a problem for them. I know nothing about Civ3 community but I can ask those guys if you point me to a thread where you found a unit. Many of them maybe out of business now but I think its worth a try. They're all moders like us so I'm sure they'll understand why we're asking about it. Units are IMHO the most important part and we'd be aiming for the top quality.

Good idea and worth a try, but as I know, it may not be an easy task. Like MTW, Civ3 is a quite old game. Many old modders are not there now...For example, Kinboat doesn't login on the CFC forum since 2006, Steph quited modding, Imperator lost his old file because of an accident of his computer....

[cegorach]

@cegorach (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?7236-cegorach), @zweihander (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?97432-zweihander) - let me know what you think about my previous post.

It is a nice idea, but unlikely to work - these are old, very old files so unlikely to give us any results.

Is it possible to enlarge the images without losing quality e.g. before they are converted into .bmps?

[zweihander]

Is it possible to enlarge the images without losing quality e.g. before they are converted into .bmps?

Sadly, impossible.

I suggest to PM imperator1961 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?u=125027), who is one of two modders who made many units during Renaissance era(the other one is Sandris) and he still login these days, to ask if he can help.

Edit: if you think this is a good idea, I would like to try to make a contact with Imperator.

[zweihander]

Here are some units from Civ3 which could be necessary. Eventually, so can wait.

Animations are very good and include two modes of attack in the case of a musketeers.

Highland Clansman

17651

Scottish Musketeer

17652

movable artillery if we decide that it is necessary

17653

French Guard Musketeers on foot

17654

Italian musketeer - perfect for western irregulars/light infantry with firearms

17655

Ottoman and Bosniak infantry units with firearms to give several animation options for muslim countries

17658

17657

17656


zweihander

Can you have a look? They look pretty well in my opinion. I am not sure if you can find something better.

They're good enough, but I have to remind you, nearly all of them are in pretty small size, a bit smaller than the two units I have converted. And, could you please also list the author of the units?



I suggest to PM imperator1961 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?u=125027), who is one of two modders who made many units during Renaissance era(the other one is Sandris) and he still login these days, to ask if he can help.

Edit: if you think this is a good idea, I would like to try to make a contact with Imperator.
Stazi cegorach
What do you think of this?

[Stazi]

It is a nice idea, but unlikely to work - these are old, very old files so unlikely to give us any results.

Is it possible to enlarge the images without losing quality e.g. before they are converted into .bmps?

Here. It's how it looks when you double the size:
17663

It's the best we can do.

[cegorach]

They're good enough, but I have to remind you, nearly all of them are in pretty small size, a bit smaller than the two units I have converted. And, could you please also list the author of the units?

I have no idea. It was downloaded years ago and there is no such information in the downloaded folders.

I suppose you could ask him what can be done.


Here. It's how it looks when you double the size:
17663

It's the best we can do.

Not great, but better than what we have. Would be less of a problem if we could combine 1024 and 512 files.

At least I think it would, but that means all sorts of other problems... hmm.

[Stazi]

Edit: if you think this is a good idea, I would like to try to make a contact with Imperator.

Sure, go for it. It won't hurt even if he says no.

EDIT

@cegorach (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?7236-cegorach) - I wonder if I should replace Mongol Heavy Cavalry with that NTW grey horse so LiHorse would be our light mounts only folder? I think it'd be better to put MHC in EHorse folder as their horses are armored.

[cegorach]

@cegorach (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?7236-cegorach) - I wonder if I should replace Mongol Heavy Cavalry with that NTW grey horse so LiHorse would be our light mounts only folder? I think it'd be better to put MHC in EHorse folder as their horses are armored.

Yes, that is a good idea, but I thought about using ArmHorse for armoured horses (can include MTW EHorse and MHC).
Just leave one-quarter of the 1024p file free in case we will need it for something in the future.

Tomorrow I'll post a list of files I think are good directories for PMTW animations, I haven't finished it yet.



Right now LiHorse is full, so will be ArmHorse, where do you plan to put those musketeer/hangunner animations?

I think that Custom directories should be left for new animations. For the sake of some order in the process.

[zweihander]

where do you plan to put those musketeer/hangunner animations?

I think that Custom directories should be left for new animations. For the sake of some order in the process.

I suggest the LgTuCnHi folder, which is use for the CossackMusketeer now.

[Stazi]

I've been trying to find another game with units to import and found that Age of Kings has a bit better quality (size) of units but the problems is that there are no walk animations. Stand or Run only so it will be hard to tell if your unit is walking or running on the first sight. Of course, you can see it on a unit card at the bottom of the screen but I don't know if it's worth the effort? What you think?

[zweihander]

Sorry, what is Age of Kings? Could you provide some screenshots of the units?

Civ3 units don't differenciate Walk, Run and Charge too.

Edit: do you mean the Age of Empire II? If yes, it is not a game of Renaissance era, and more importantly, the size of its units is actually even smaller than Civ3. Someone had converted Kinboat's Civ3 landsknecht to Aoe2, and it looks much bigger than original aoe2 units.

[zweihander]

Good news is that I found that Kinboat has provided the Poser model of his Landsknecht, it means that we can export it as big as we want:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17669&d=1456551277

Bad news: the Poser model doesn't include any poses information, it mean that I can only keep the model idle. I need to made the poses by myself, too hard... I would like to ask in the CFC forum if anyone is willing to provide a two-handed sword action group...

[Stazi]

Good news is that I found that Kinboat has provided the Poser model of his Landsknecht, it means that we can export it as big as we want:


Bad news: the Poser model doesn't include any poses information, it mean that I can only keep the model idle. I need to made the poses by myself, too hard... I would like to ask in the CFC forum if anyone is willing to provide a two-handed sword action group...

Great, but without animations it'll be pretty useless. We can make an icon from it but that's all. BTW what's the app used to open the model on screenshot?

[zweihander]

It is Poser6.0, unfortunatly that it is not a free software. I bought it years ago but seldom use it.

I would try to ask if any civ3 modder like to provide a suitable animation set.

[zweihander]

A quick in game test
Everything is good, except no animations~;p

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117166538244341/46C36CF654EAB3C5252D6F8970E1F8D545C0C77B/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117166538243711/07D1C16324E37D051A4076E9D24A60C390E5161F/

Edit: It is even better than converted-units because we can adjust the camera angle to suit the MTW engine.

[cegorach]

Before I'll post a list where goes what here are new animations from 2.0.

New Polish musketeers used also by some other units. Dragoon animation isn't used at this moment, but might be in the future.

https://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo69/cegorach77/PMTW%20dwa/pol%20late%20infantry.png (http://s362.photobucket.com/user/cegorach77/media/PMTW%20dwa/pol%20late%20infantry.png.html)

Russian feudal cavalry etc.

https://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo69/cegorach77/PMTW%20dwa/late%203.png (http://s362.photobucket.com/user/cegorach77/media/PMTW%20dwa/late%203.png.html)

HTW Pikemen used for less armoured pikemen and my late invention - double-armed men, so units consisting of both musketeers and pikemen.

https://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo69/cegorach77/PMTW%20dwa/Custom2.png (http://s362.photobucket.com/user/cegorach77/media/PMTW%20dwa/Custom2.png.html)

Sadly the pikemen had to be defined as mounts because musketeers had to be able to use aim and shoot actions horses do not seem to have.

All are here:

17671

with one actiopage .txt each.

[cegorach]

A quick in game test
Everything is good, except no animations~;p

Edit: It is even better than converted-units because we can adjust the camera angle to suit the MTW engine.

Use it. It might be only idle for now, but it is better than what we have for those action.

[zweihander]

HTW Pikemen used for less armoured pikemen and my late invention - double-armed men, so units consisting of both musketeers and pikemen.

https://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo69/cegorach77/PMTW%20dwa/Custom2.png (http://s362.photobucket.com/user/cegorach77/media/PMTW%20dwa/Custom2.png.html)

Sadly the pikemen had to be defined as mounts because musketeers had to be able to use aim and shoot actions horses do not seem to have.


So, you abandoned this animation?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17672&d=1456577214

[cegorach]

What goes where - the list.


I'll update it when it is done - should be soon. Hard to decide with some, also because I want to leave some space for something just in case.

Platesurcoat - Platesurcoat, PlateS, KHorse - all forms of Polish and Russian infantry and dragoons. Red or blue.
1 quarter free just in case. Another animation could be easily made using current ones by applying simple changes just like I did with the polish infantry - different head and colours.

Viking - Dervish, Janni, Viking - mobile artilelry, warwagons and field fortifications. 1 quarter free just in case we get another animation for mobile artillery or something different (rockets?).

Bowman - Bowman Only one animation for now. It is supposed to cover all forms of line infantry from later period of the game so space is necessary. 3 entries left.

ChHlBow - ChHlBow, LaKnight, ToplessLoon, Smailcav - several types of cavalry in chainmail or coats + Delis with a lion's fur. Directory closed.

NegInf - NegInf Right now solely for nomads from LOTR, should be the directory where future 'imports' from LOTR will go.

EHorse - EHorse, HlPlArSh, LARMWCAV, - three dragoon animations. This way some animations can be used for cavalry of other factions - with a sword in hand!
1 entry left just in case.

LgTuCnHi - LgTuCnHi, Huscarle, Custom7, Custom8 - so as suggested. Deals with many musket armed infantry units. Directory closed.

MongCost - MongCost, Custom1, Custom9, EEuroCav - several types of cavalry in blackened armour + others which are using the same entry. Directory closed.

Fullplar - Fullplar, MSHelm, Peasant, NewPeasant - Polish Hussars and several types of cavalry sharing same directories. Directory closed.

MailHCav - MailHCav, Pestucav - for muslim infantry with handguns. 2 entries left in case we get suitable animations.

HlPlArHm - HlPlArHm, Custom2, Custom4, Custom5 Various pikemen, halberdiers and musketeers. Directory closed.

Stazi

Could you review it and see if there are any problems? I left the Iroquis and Skii infantry, as well as some other animations for you to choose directories. Please don't use Custom 0-9 because I want them for new animations.

[cegorach]

So, you abandoned this animation?

Temporarily. I had to make some choices. Now we don't have to.

It will simply go somewhere else. While working on 2.0. I've tested many solutions and ideas. Now I have more (rockets?).

[zweihander]

Good work, this list will help a lot. And now we have many, many free directories:2thumbsup:



Which animation you want to adapt from LOTR?


------------------------
I give it faction colours, looks good ingame:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17673&d=1456581427

[Stazi]

A quick in game test
Everything is good, except no animations~;p

Edit: It is even better than converted-units because we can adjust the camera angle to suit the MTW engine.

Could you upload this model somewhere. I'd like to do a few experiments.~:)

[zweihander]

Could you upload this model somewhere. I'd like to do a few experiments.~:)

Find it in this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=70328), it is called 'The complete LandsKneckt figure'

[cegorach]

Good work, this list will help a lot. And now we have many, many free directories:2thumbsup:

I've updated the list in the meantime. There are some choices left to Stazi. Mainly old MTW animations, Skii infantry and Iroquis.




Which animation you want to adapt from LOTR?

The list of ideas was posted couple of days ago.

[zweihander]

cegorach

Duke John had provided a unit graphic pack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?26839-Duke-John-s-New-Unit-Graphics) and allow modders to use them with credits. (the download link is down but Stazi has re-uploaded it, in the last page)

I suggest to:
Use the War of the Roses\Textures\CUSTOM0 for the English Trained Band Billman
Use the War of the Roses\Textures\CUSTOM3 for the Dismounted Knight
Use the War of the Roses\Textures\CUSTOM7 for various archer/longbow units

Edit:
You may like to use
the Various Medieval Unit BIFs\Textures\CUSTOM0 for various archer/longbow units too, just take a look and make your choice.

[cegorach]

cegorach

Duke John had provided a unit graphic pack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?26839-Duke-John-s-New-Unit-Graphics) and allow modders to use them with credits. (the download link is down but Stazi has re-uploaded it, in the last page)

I suggest to:
Use the War of the Roses\Textures\CUSTOM0 for the English Trained Band Billman
Use the War of the Roses\Textures\CUSTOM3 for the Dismounted Knight
Use the War of the Roses\Textures\CUSTOM7(or CUSTOM8) for various archer/longbow units

Yes, and many PMTW graphics came from his pack. Now simply we have much more space so more can be included.

For now let's convert old PMTW files, learn from the experience and only after that import more of them - remember ALL should be in 1024p files in the end.

[Stazi]

What goes where - the list.


I'll update it when it is done - should be soon. Hard to decide with some, also because I want to leave some space for something just in case.

Platesurcoat - Platesurcoat, PlateS, KHorse - all forms of Polish and Russian infantry and dragoons. Red or blue.
1 quarter free just in case. Another animation could be easily made using current ones by applying simple changes just like I did with the polish infantry - different head and colours.

Viking - Dervish, Janni, Viking - mobile artilelry, warwagons and field fortifications. 1 quarter free just in case we get another animation for mobile artillery or something different (rockets?).

Bowman - Bowman Only one animation for now. It is supposed to cover all forms of line infantry from later period of the game so space is necessary. 3 entries left.

ChHlBow - ChHlBow, LaKnight, ToplessLoon, Smailcav - several types of cavalry in chainmail or coats + Delis with a lion's fur. Directory closed.

NegInf - NegInf Right now solely for nomads from LOTR, should be the directory where future 'imports' from LOTR will go.

EHorse - EHorse, HlPlArSh, LARMWCAV, - three dragoon animations. This way some animations can be used for cavalry of other factions - with a sword in hand!
1 entry left just in case.

LgTuCnHi - LgTuCnHi, Huscarle, Custom7, Custom8 - so as suggested. Deals with many musket armed infantry units. Directory closed.

MongCost - MongCost, Custom1, Custom9, EEuroCav - several types of cavalry in blackened armour + others which are using the same entry. Directory closed.

Fullplar - Fullplar, MSHelm, Peasant, NewPeasant - Polish Hussars and several types of cavalry sharing same directories. Directory closed.

MailHCav - MailHCav, Pestucav - for muslim infantry with handguns. 2 entries left in case we get suitable animations.

HlPlArHm - HlPlArHm, Custom2, Custom4, Custom5 Various pikemen, halberdiers and musketeers. Directory closed.

@Stazi (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=30016)

Could you review it and see if there are any problems? I left the Iroquis and Skii infantry, as well as some other animations for you to choose directories. Please don't use Custom 0-9 because I want them for new animations.

Ok, I'll check and pack them together. Just give me some time.

[cegorach]

Ok, I'll check and pack them together. Just give me some time.

Take as much as you need. The list is meant to organise our efforts so everyone knows what is where.

If you decide what would happen to other files tell me where you are planning to add them.

[zweihander]

He know how to run now:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17674&d=1456633298



But nothing more, still no proper attack animation.

[zweihander]

:horn::horn::horn:

I'm pround to provide this! The beautiful Doppelsoldners! I work on it for a whole day and finally make the attack animation by myself!

The unit animation has idle, run and attack animation, no Die. But I notice many unit graphics in PMTW don't have Die animation too, cegorach how do you deal with them in the Actionpage?

Screenshots:
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117166542549619/1FD8DB8A051F0B6CEE8C35A64CCE325A992611D0/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117166542554842/98FB429B159315ECC49F3E87FD53AAF3457379FE/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117166542551760/923B0BD4E90CFDFB261CE0549A3909B50B194C42/

Please download it and test it ingame and tell me if it has any problem, if there is no other problem I would post it on the Completed Unit Anim thread.

Credits to Kinboat, the original author of the Landsknecht model.

[Stazi]

Congratulations! They look great, although a little fat. :wink: Could you upload it, please? It'd be the best if you upload them as single frames. I'd like to test automatic texture and actionpage generating program.

[zweihander]

Congratulations! They look great, although a little fat. :wink: Could you upload it, please?

It is in the attachment of my last post, don't you see it?

[Stazi]

It is in the attachment of my last post, don't you see it?

Sorry, no idea how I missed it. I edited my previous post but I add it here: It'd be the best if you upload them as single frames. I'd like to test automatic texture and actionpage generating program.

[zweihander]

Sorry, no idea how I missed it. I edited my previous post but I add it here: It'd be the best if you upload them as single frames. I'd like to test automatic texture and actionpage generating program.

Here you are, include the 12 frames in BMP, an actionpage file, a PSD file:

[Stazi]

Here you are, include the 12 frames in BMP, an actionpage file, a PDF file:

How do you get single frames for each of animation poses (before you put them into single 512x512 image)? I'd like to get those single poses and try to generate whole 512x512 image.

[zweihander]

How do you get single frames for each of animation poses (before you put them into single 512x512 image)? I'd like to get those single poses and try to generate whole 512x512 image.

I use Fn+Prt Sc to take screenshots from the Poser Rendering window.

The files you need in the attachment:

Edit: the attachment is correct now.

[Stazi]

I use Fn+Prt Sc to take screenshots from the Poser Rendering window.

The files you need in the attachment:

Edit: the attachment is correct now.

Thanks. One more thing - Could you make sword attack animation (sword cut) a little deeper. I think sword should end horizontally. Now it starts upright and moves maybe like 40-45 degrees and goes back. It doesn't look like a real cut.

[Stazi]

I use Fn+Prt Sc to take screenshots from the Poser Rendering window.

The files you need in the attachment:

Edit: the attachment is correct now.

I can't believe it. Every screenshot is a little different and pose displaced so you have to manually align them through all 12 frames! It's TONS of very precise work! I'm really impressed.


EDIT


I've just found this: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=191725
It should make your work easier when all screenies will be taken at exact same position. I hope you can adjust angles to match the MTW system.

[zweihander]

Thanks. One more thing - Could you make sword attack animation (sword cut) a little deeper. I think sword should end horizontally. Now it starts upright and moves maybe like 40-45 degrees and goes back. It doesn't look like a real cut.

That is the best I can do. But Balam-Agab, a Civ3 modder has kindly provided his 2-handed sword poses set, I would try it tomorrow to see if it works.


I can't believe it. Every screenshot is a little different and pose displaced so you have to manually align them through all 12 frames! It's TONS of very precise work! I'm really impressed.


EDIT


I've just found this: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=191725
It should make your work easier when all screenies will be taken at exact same position. I hope you can adjust angles to match the MTW system.
Yup, that's what I did, just need great patience.

Thanks for the link, but I don't need that template, it is just something for making Civ3 graphics. The camera angle of my Doppelsoldner is already adjusted, 36, 72, 108, 144, perfectly fit the MTW engine.

[Stazi]

That is the best I can do. But Balam-Agab, a Civ3 modder has kindly provided his 2-handed sword poses set, I would try it tomorrow to see if it works.


Yup, that's what I did, just need great patience.

Thanks for the link, but I don't need that template, it is just something for making Civ3 graphics. The camera angle of my Doppelsoldner is already adjusted, 36, 72, 108, 144, perfectly fit the MTW engine.

Excellent! BTW I've just found some of your models for Civ4. Really nice stuff. If you manage to learn the whole process to add animations and take screenshot in exactly the same position you can do wonders. There are a lot of Renaissance 3d models we could you use and new units can look even better than original ones! I hope you'll write a tutorial too. Damn, I'm so excited!:yes:

[cegorach]

:horn::horn::horn:

I'm pround to provide this! The beautiful Doppelsoldners!

Amazing work! I do mean it because this unit was supposed to get the best treatment just like Winged Hussars did so it is like a dream coming true.

When it is done please add them to the finished animations thread - they can be a trademark animation of 1.6.



cegorach how do you deal with them in the Actionpage?

I didn't. I just copied something else e.g. idle or similar.

I considered death as a wasteful luxury to be dealt with in the future.

[cegorach]

There are a lot of Renaissance 3d models we could you use and new units can look even better than original ones! I hope you'll write a tutorial too. Damn, I'm so excited!:yes:

Yes, that would be very good, though replacements can wait, first would be the new animations to add variety.

Besides I can bet it won't be easy to find historically accurate replacements for some units esp. in cavalry.

[zweihander]

Stazi please help!

I add new animation to the doppelsoldner unit graphic and put it into a 1024p image(because a 512p has not enough room), but ingame the formation is in a mess!
17695

I belive it is because of the Actionpage numbers have something wrong. I put the bif file here17696, could you please caculate the Actionpage?

Out of date.

[cegorach]

It might be the formation's width or lenght, or how formed/unformed it is.

Try different ones and you will see.

[zweihander]

But no this problem when I use a 512p bif last night, so I believe it because pf the 1024p and actionpage.

[Stazi]

@Stazi (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=30016) please help!

I add new animation to the doppelsoldner unit graphic and put it into a 1024p image(because a 512p has not enough room), but ingame the formation is in a mess!
17695

I belive it is because of the Actionpage numbers have something wrong. I put the bif file here17696, could you please caculate the Actionpage?

Yes, it's because wrong actionpage coordinates. And no, I can't recalculate them. But there are two solutions:

1. You need to resize your 1024p tex to 512p. It's because Bif reader doesn't work with 1024p textures. Then you open it in bif reader, load your old actionpage and tune all the rectangles. Obviously, poses will be very small buts it's how MTW engine sees them. This method is very time consuming.

2. The method I'm currently working on. I use TexturePacker (https://www.codeandweb.com/texturepacker) with my customized exporter to generate texture and actionpage file. Both in just a few clicks. There is one reuirement: all 12 frames for each pose have to be exactly the same size (rectangle). That's why I asked you yesterday about single frames.

Check the example. It's your yesterday version of Doppelsoldner packed using this method:
17697

As you can see it's still a lot free space if all the frame poses are packed without unnecessary empty spaces. There is nearly enough space for the whole new unit and it's just a 512p texture.

My exporter also generates actionpage txt file formatted like this:


<<512x512>>
dop_fight_E_01
22 77 115 59 159 136
dop_fight_NE_01
14 80 202 60 232 140
dop_fight_SE_01
21 78 159 60 202 138
dop_fight_S_01
13 82 0 113 26 195
dop_run_E_01
25 58 138 0 189 58
dop_run_NE_01
22 59 189 0 234 59
dop_run_SE_01
24 64 28 53 77 117
dop_run_S_01
18 68 77 57 114 125
dop_stand_E_01
25 52 51 0 102 52
dop_stand_NE_01
25 52 0 0 50 52
dop_stand_SE_01
17 56 102 0 137 56
dop_stand_S_01
14 60 0 52 28 112


All you have to do is to sort them out basing on the files names and tune an origin (first two values in each line) in bif reader. Origin is different for each unit and each pose so it can't be automatically calculated. I place it in the middle of bottom edge. It looks like this in bif reader:

17698

Values in exporter are rounded down so some rectangles need to be increased by 1 pixel for perfect visual experience in game.

But this method is not fully ready yet. I still have to figure out the best routine.

EDIT
I'll try to repack your today version and generate the actionpage file.

[zweihander]

Stazi Thanks! but you don't need to do it, I have already done it.

[zweihander]

Alright. I have done the Action Page file.

I replace the Attack animation and add the Charge animation, both are made by Balam-Agab from CFC.:thumbsup: And also fix some missing pixels.

As I said before, this new animation is in a 1024p BIF, so it needs adjusting the SCALE in the UNIT_PROD files.

Please download(in the attachment (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17699&d=1456735007)) and test it in game, it should be the final version if no other problems.

Screenshots:

Standing:
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117166545988282/A8CD486ACF2BAF0578B82E326E6C766FE40AC760/

Runing:
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117166545993369/2ECAF5BE2BF12DC2BA1BB9EB85EC1842DE979455/

Charging:
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117166545995399/C5F80B5969B2FB012D8444A7F8D456B5A334A851/

Fighting:
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117166546000100/0DCA9BF4D775C5C97050562BAB0C1C9260DFCA15/

[Stazi]

It looks good now. Attack animation is much better. But remember that you will be probably adding new unit (or two) to this texture in the future so that texture is technically not ready yet (color palette changes, etc.).

EDIT:

How do you add faction colors to the texture? Already in Poser or later?

[cegorach]

Very good zweihander!

Could you post these screenshots in our topic on TWC? It would be nice to let the people know that there is some progress.

There is some space left in the file so if you will squeeze another unit in the same .BIF it will be great.

Not required because this unit deserves its own directory and thanks to Stazi we have plenty of them.


If you want to work on another unit let me know.


BTW I'll probably ask Balam-Agab about this:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=561310

namely about fight animations for the red-hatted musketeer from the period of Abbas the Great.

Would be quite useful.


Have you seen any wagon infantry made for CiV3? This is one of animations we could use, as long as it looks historically accurate.

[zweihander]

EDIT:

How do you add faction colors to the texture? Already in Poser or later?

In Poser you can easily change the colour of any part of the model, I change some part to green/pink, and use your method (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?151489-Converting-Civilization3-unit-animations&p=2053686673&viewfull=1#post2053686673) to confirm faction colours in my PSD file.


Very good zweihander!

Could you post these screenshots in our topic on TWC? It would be nice to let the people know that there is some progress.

Have you seen any wagon infantry made for CiV3? This is one of animations we could use, as long as it looks historically accurate.

ok, I will post in TWC later.

No, I haven't.

[cegorach]

Another interesting pack of this guy

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=535573

so Scotland! Eventually it has to be done, so treat the link as my way to keep it somewhere we won't lose it.


Hmm, that is an odd thing

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=90014

A while ago I've worked on a Warhammer mod and odd stuff was just what I liked. This is... interesting. Could be an interesting addition if we ever want a hypothetical unit of just a single one model.

[Stazi]

Hmm, that is an odd thing

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=90014

A while ago I've worked on a Warhammer mod and odd stuff was just what I liked. This is... interesting. Could be an interesting addition if we ever want a hypothetical unit of just a single one model.

I like it too. We can make it movable like Regimental Cannon but shooting normal cannon balls. I think it'd be a rare mercenary unit only. Its death animation is great.

[Stazi]

Have you seen any wagon infantry made for CiV3? This is one of animations we could use, as long as it looks historically accurate.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14614

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=222851

The first link is quite interesting despite it's Hussite war wagon. Cossacks war wagons are hard to find.

[cegorach]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14614

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=222851

The first link is quite interesting despite it's Hussite war wagon. Cossacks war wagons are hard to find.

Looks great, but useless to us - too medieval. Well, in time we will find something. Or 'hire' someone to prepare it.


I like it too. We can make it movable like Regimental Cannon but shooting normal cannon balls. I think it'd be a rare mercenary unit only. Its death animation is great.

We will see about the projectiles it could fire - we could have two ('dismounted' as the second one), one firing cannonballs and another throwing granades or something similar.
1 model unit with high defence, decent attack, heavy armour with a pavise and causing fear so it can survive for longer. I've tested it with Dwarf Dragon Slayers with my old Warhammer mod and it works pretty well.


When it comes to availability I don't like mercanary only units and I'd like to give it to Milan with a unique building (say Da Vinci's Workshop or similar) which could give some other benefits. Something actually unique given to a small, italian faction other than Venice.


Animation seems easy enough to adopt. Not that many angles (looks similar from every side) except when firing or moving - zweihander what do you think?

[zweihander]

Animation seems easy enough to adopt. Not that many angles (looks similar from every side) except when firing or moving - zweihander what do you think?

The model is very interesting. But the firing smoke may cause serious problem while converting, I had converted units involing firing smoke to FTG, smoke is hard to deal with.
And I'm afraid that I would not have enough time to convert units recently, sorry.

[zweihander]

cegorach

Kinboat had also provided this Poser model:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Knight_Preview1.gif

Do you think it would be useful in our mod? The Helmet/shield can be changed if you think it is too medieval.

Since I already have a sword&shield pose set, it would not be too hard for me to make it, just need some free time...

[Stazi]

The model is very interesting. But the firing smoke may cause serious problem while converting, I had converted units involing firing smoke to FTG, smoke is hard to deal with.

We can get rid of the smoke eventually but it involves editing every single frame. But smoke looks fine. Why not leave it?


And I'm afraid that I would not have enough time to convert units recently, sorry.

Could you write a short guide for Poser (I've just downloaded it), for adding animations to models, preparing a stage for screenshots, etc.? Generally the way you do it. I'd like to learn those things. It doesn't have to be super detailed. I'll ask you if I have problems with something.

[zweihander]

I would find some time tomorrow to write it. And you may like to read this first:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=118502
It is about making civ3 unit graphics, but you can learn a lot from this.

[cegorach]

The model is very interesting. But the firing smoke may cause serious problem while converting, I had converted units involing firing smoke to FTG, smoke is hard to deal with.
And I'm afraid that I would not have enough time to convert units recently, sorry.

Ignore the smoke - gunpowder weapons have their own smoke generated by the game (by Fog file in a different place).

Don't treat it as a priority, it is more a question about your opinion about this animation.

The way I see it it requires very few angles, definetely not four images, but maybe even just two.
It is circular and almost all actions look the same from all angles so I wonder what do you think.

[cegorach]

cegorach

Kinboat had also provided this Poser model:

Do you think it would be useful in our mod? The Helmet/shield can be changed if you think it is too medieval.

Since I already have a sword&shield pose set, it would not be too hard for me to make it, just need some free time...

It looks well, except the shield. Could be useful for last remaining knightly units and dismounted heavy cavalry in the early XVIth.

[zweihander]

cegorach

Please use this items/Weapons code17711 for all units using the 'CUSTOM4'(Pikeman) unit graphic.

Please use this items/Weapons code17710 for all units using the 'CUSTOM2'(Swiss Halberd/Urban Militant) unit graphic.

Please use this items/Weapons code17709 for all units using the 'CUSTOM5'(armoured Pikeman) unit graphic.

These codes will greatly improve the weapon animation.

[cegorach]

Very well, but all those graphics will be converted into 1024p files, so the weapons' positions will have to be altered.

But it still helps to have them re-made, so thank you!

[Stazi]

But it still helps to have them re-made, so thank you!

The better they look now, the better they will look after conversion and less fine tuning will be needed. I'm currently struggling with it. There are usually a dozen of units using one folder (each one with another dozen of txt files describing the rectangles, weapon, shield animations which have to be recalculated) so packing four folders into one 1024p folder means dealing with hundreds of files. I feel like a copy/pasting robot. But it has to be done sooner or later.

[cegorach]

I know what you mean. I did the original work after all - including copy/pasting and adjusting animation poses into .BMPs taken from YanTraken's drawings.

I found it easier by dealing with files which have less unit entries (Winged Hussars, Wagons, Dragoons etc) - sometimes one or two - as a sort of holiday break from more complicated stuff.

[zweihander]

Please use this items/Weapons code17710 for all units using the 'CUSTOM2'(Swiss Halberd/Urban Militant) unit graphic.


Halberd weapon anim update.
17719

[zweihander]

Update the Doppelsoldner animation:
17771

-add Death animation
-adjust some animations

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17724&d=1456965273
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17723&d=1456965273

---------------------------------

Stazi
Is it possible to add the doppelsoldner's image to the DEAD256.LBM?

[Stazi]

Is it possible to add the doppelsoldner's image to the DEAD256.LBM?
Of course, it's possible. You have have to find four images of a soldier that you want to replace (DEADPAGE COORDS.txt) and paste the last frame of your death animation there. 4 images for 4 angles like everywhere else.

[zweihander]

Stazi cegorach

Imperator1961 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?u=125027) is willing to send us his Poser models. Please take a look of his works and choose which units we should request.

(I suggest to search the threads start from him, the 'units' list' in his signature is incomplete.

[cegorach]

Does it include older files such as those from ten years ago? I'll have a look. There are definetely quite many interesting entries.

Also what do you think, the both of you, about pikemen models with pikes in hand? I'd like to have at least two such animations, but I am not sure about the lenght of the pikes. Many could look like half-pikes, but even that will require work.


EDIT: Boy, it couldn't be better! I guess the majority of animations which I found interesting and useful are from this guy! I'll spend Saturday going through his files to help him locate his Poser models.

[Stazi]

@Stazi (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=30016) @cegorach (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=7236)

Imperator1961 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?u=125027) is willing to send us his Poser models. Please take a look of his works and choose which units we should request.

(I suggest to search the threads start from him, the 'units' list' in his signature is incomplete.

WOW! Tons of good stuff there. I hope all models will have their animations included (or at least ones that fit many models).

[cegorach]

Quite many muslim musketeer animations, Scots, even a warwagon, but sadly only for the Ottomans.

I'll look for more tomorrow.


The only issue I have found is that there are no dedicated charge animations so certain choices will have to be made.
Also only musket armed units with two modes of attack can be taken - but fortunatelly there is a plenty of those.


Second thing - how many of his Poser models can be used in a single MTW animation directory? I'd suggest to test that with one musketeer animation. Musketeers tend to take more space so if we can use for example three in a single .BIF it will be a lot.

[zweihander]

Does it include older files such as those from ten years ago? I'll have a look. There are definetely quite many interesting entries.

I don't know how many files he still have today.



Also what do you think, the both of you, about pikemen models with pikes in hand? I'd like to have at least two such animations, but I am not sure about the lenght of the pikes. Many could look like half-pikes, but even that will require work.

I also want to ask you this question: if we make some units using very long weapon such as pike, halberd, etc. Should we (1)render the weapon together with the unit's body, or (2) render the weapon as a separate 'item'.

(1)
Advantage: the graphical performance would be better, don't need the deal with the weapon position code.
Disadvantage: cost too many space of a bif

(2)
Advantage: save the space of the BIFs
Disadvantage: worse graphical performance, need to deal with the weapon position code, a nightmare to me...

BTW, the length, width etc. of a weapon is very easy to edit in Poser, so don't worry about this.



EDIT: Boy, it couldn't be better! I guess the majority of animations which I found interesting and useful are from this guy! I'll spend Saturday going through his files to help him locate his Poser models.

Yes, Imperator also said that he has followed PMTW mod for some years as for the ideas and the uniforms informations PMTW give.

[zweihander]

Quite many muslim musketeer animations, Scots, even a warwagon, but sadly only for the Ottomans.

I'll look for more tomorrow.


The only issue I have found is that there are no dedicated charge animations so certain choices will have to be made.
Also only musket armed units with two modes of attack can be taken - but fortunatelly there is a plenty of those.


Ok, another issue we need to discuss is which animations we should include:

In MTW, a complete melee infantry should include: idle, walk, run, charge, fight, die
But a Civ unit only inculde: idle, run, fight, die. No walk and charge.
In the doppelsoldner unit, I use another run animation from Balam as the charge anim, and still no walk anim for the Doppelsoldner. But for Pike units, I think walking is pretty important?

Don't worry about the melee fighting animation of the musket armed units, it is easy to import the melee fighting animation.

[Stazi]

(1)
Advantage: the graphical performance would be better, don't need the deal with the weapon position code.
Disadvantage: cost too many space of a bif


A perfect example of this:



https://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo69/cegorach77/PMTW%20dwa/Custom2.png (http://s362.photobucket.com/user/cegorach77/media/PMTW%20dwa/Custom2.png.html)


We can try both ways and see if we can get reasonable results with pike as separate weapon.

[zweihander]

A perfect example of this:



We can try both ways and see if we can get reasonable results with pike as separate weapon.

Make a quick camparsion: that one is smaller than a original MTW unit, not much smaller though.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17726&stc=1&d=1457079682

[cegorach]

Ok, another issue we need to discuss is which animations we should include:

In MTW, a complete melee infantry should include: idle, walk, run, charge, fight, die
But a Civ unit only inculde: idle, run, fight, die. No walk and charge.
In the doppelsoldner unit, I use another run animation from Balam as the charge anim, and still no walk anim for the Doppelsoldner. But for Pike units, I think walking is pretty important?

Perhaps we could ask the obvious question - if he could make certain animations for us? AFTER we select what is actually needed so that we have a list of animations we really need (so a priority) and of those which could be nice to have.

Only a couple, such as walking pikeman or one more complicated one - a warwagon in Polish/Hungarian fashion (Cossacks would use it too, but differences in uniform are marginal so no ned for bald heads with a topknot).

[cegorach]

I've already went through 10 sets of animations, but don't have time to do more right now.

There is a number we definetely could use, but I have to ask another question - what about cavalry on horses?

Do we have space for that? There is a couple of nice animations we could use, but obviously only if those horses do not take too much space on a BIF.

Remember that for variety we still need what was present in PMTW 1.5 - especially with black and grey horses we can now use so only a couple of such animations would be enough.


We will have to test how much space it will take on a BIF - two per directory should be OK in my opinion.
6 such animations at the most, at least I don't think there is a need for more.

It is not to replace PMTW cavalry, but to add those few which are necessary.

[Stazi]

There is a number we definetely could use, but I have to ask another question - what about cavalry on horses?

Do we have space for that? There is a couple of nice animations we could use, but obviously only if those horses do not take too much space on a BIF.

Cavalry on horses takes even more space that a pikemen. It's like Tatars in MOCOSCAV folder. Two, maybe three units per 1024 p file at best. Of course if you want to reduce the number of poses (like those Tatars) we can fit four. BTW you mentioned that Shogun animations have more different frames. Could you upload them? I don't have Shogun:TW.

[zweihander]

We can try to create cavalry unit graphic without the horse.

[zweihander]

Alright, here is the units I want to request:

Doppelsoldner, to see if I can do some improvement to my previous doppelsoldner graphic.
Heavy Landsknecht Pikeman, for the armoured landsknechts in PMTW.
Light Landsknecht Pikeman, for the unarmoured landsknechts in PMTW.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17727&d=1457095813

What do you think of them?



BTW, remember: everything like weapon, shield, armour, pose, colour, scale, size, camera angle, etc. can be edit and change in Poser.

[cegorach]

We can try to create cavalry unit graphic without the horse.

Yes, we could, but I thought about a couple of animations which include interesting, different mounts (e.g. Berber Camel raider) or because I need one horse & mount animation for Balcan mounted infantry - just like with Dragoon units, but different.


Alright, here is the units I want to request:

Doppelsoldner, to see if I can do some improvement to my previous doppelsoldner graphic.
Heavy Landsknecht Pikeman, for the armoured landsknechts in PMTW.
Light Landsknecht Pikeman, for the unarmoured landsknechts in PMTW.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17727&d=1457095813

What do you think of them?


I wanted to propose them myself + the lansknecht arquebusier/caliver which is also very useful Possibly only for one unit, but so many factions use Landsknechte it makes sense to have this animation in faction colours.


Cavalry on horses takes even more space that a pikemen. It's like Tatars in MOCOSCAV folder. Two, maybe three units per 1024 p file at best. Of course if you want to reduce the number of poses (like those Tatars) we can fit four. BTW you mentioned that Shogun animations have more different frames. Could you upload them? I don't have Shogun:TW.

I doubt there will be more than 6 such animations we will ever need, but rather less than six.

I have checked and I do not have the original BIFs anymore. I've deleted STW years ago because I no longer use a DVD player in any computer and the game required one.

Mongol light cavalry just like any cavalry unit in STW was using two BIF files so death or shooting animations were not possible to include.

[zweihander]

I wanted to propose them myself + the lansknecht arquebusier/caliver which is also very useful Possibly only for one unit, but so many factions use Landsknechte it makes sense to have this animation in faction colours.


I don't like the lansknecht arquebusier becuase he is wearing a breastplate -- they shouldn't wearing armour IMO. I want to make a lansknecht arquebusier with lansknecht light pikeman's body, and put it into the same BIF becuase of their similar colours. What do you think of this? And of course, we can add faction colours with Poser.

[cegorach]

Ok, I get it, plus it makes more sense and saves space so go ahead.

[Stazi]

I don't like the lansknecht arquebusier becuase he is wearing a breastplate -- they shouldn't wearing armour IMO. I want to make a lansknecht arquebusier with lansknecht light pikeman's body, and put it into the same BIF becuase of their similar colours. What do you think of this? And of course, we can add faction colours with Poser.

I don't know much about history of that time but I prefer historically accurate units. If armor is no good just drop it.

[cegorach]

So far I cannot find a single animation of a foot archer which is using a sword/a sabre.

Would be useful for Moldovan mounted infantry as well as several other factions. Otherwise we'd have to keep the original MTW VI file.


Also, if there is a black-skinned hangunner (except Sudanese from later XVIIIth century) out there please tell me. One animation would be welcome for Moroccan Black Guard and Ethiopian hangunners.

[cegorach]

Plus it would be nice to find animations for western lightly armoured infantry without a shield, preferably with a pistol.

Perhaps sword & shield armoured infantry but without a shield? There are several such animations, but I'd like zweihander to choose
something for one of his favourite units.

It would be really great if a shield could be removed for some units e.g. Portuguese marines or genuine dismounted cavalry from XVI-XVIIth century. Pistol is a nice bonus allowing pretty cool fight animations (no sound, but say it is due to a small number of soldiers in a unit using a pistol at the same time).

[zweihander]

Remove the shield or replace the shield with a pistol is possible. But you'd better to choose your favourtite Swordsman model, I haven't take a look of all of them.

[zweihander]

I'm interested in adding a unit call 'Vortragschwerter'(ceremonial swords guard), which role would be a German version of palace guard or Guardia Tudesca, and only appear in the 1570 campaign.

Here are some reference picture, it would be great to make a unit model with the 2-handed sword weapon model and the body of Imperator's Landsknecht-heavy pikeman. Is it enough UNIT_PROD11 room to make such a unit?

[zweihander]

And if you have already chose the Imperator's unit you want to request, please list the unit name, the link of its thread, and (better but unnecessary) the icon here.

Here is one example:

The Landcknecht-Doppelsoldner, Landcknecht Light Pikeman, Landcknecht Heavy Pikeman, Landcknecht-Arquebusier from this pack (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=474592):
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17732&d=1457186447

[cegorach]

I'm interested in adding a unit call 'Vortragschwerter'(ceremonial swords guard), which role would be a German version of palace guard or Guardia Tudesca, and only appear in the 1570 campaign.

Here are some reference picture, it would be great to make a unit model with the 2-handed sword weapon model and the body of Imperator's Landsknecht-heavy pikeman. Is it enough UNIT_PROD11 room to make such a unit?

What would be the year the unit shouldn't be available from? Which factions should use it, only German_HRE?

[zweihander]

No, I think they would only available for the minor German states, rather than Hapsburg. They should be disappear since 1630 I think? This kind of unit is most popular in late 16 to early 17 century.

[cegorach]

Ok, I think there will be enough space for this unit. I am planning to remove one or two, so it should be fine.


I went through all those animations and I'll throw a list tomorrow. Quite a lot of work and time but it will take even more for you to import it to the mod.


There are still some units I'd like to have, units which seem not to exist in the set.

A genuine eaastern european archer with a sabre - for Balcan, Caucasus factions and possibly for Russia.

A black skinned infantryman with a handgun.

A handgunner in a chainmail.

Something suitable for Gallowglass etc.



Still many holes will be plugged with these animations if suitable Poser files will be there.

[Stazi]

There are still some units I'd like to have, units which seem not to exist in the set.

A genuine eaastern european archer with a sabre - for Balcan, Caucasus factions and possibly for Russia.

A black skinned infantryman with a handgun.

A handgunner in a chainmail.

Something suitable for Gallowglass etc.

Could you post any pictures how those units should look like?

[zweihander]

Balam has a Gallowglass model, I would try to ask him.

[zweihander]

Ok, I think there will be enough space for this unit. I am planning to remove one or two, so it should be fine.


I went through all those animations and I'll throw a list tomorrow. Quite a lot of work and time but it will take even more for you to import it to the mod.


There are still some units I'd like to have, units which seem not to exist in the set.

A genuine eaastern european archer with a sabre - for Balcan, Caucasus factions and possibly for Russia.

A black skinned infantryman with a handgun.

A handgunner in a chainmail.

Something suitable for Gallowglass etc.



Still many holes will be plugged with these animations if suitable Poser files will be there.

I suggest to forget those can't find suitable model units now, we can't count on imperator has everything we need. just list the models we are able to chose.

[cegorach]

Could you post any pictures how those units should look like?

I wanted to look for them first. I think I have some of those.

We will see if Poser models are available though.

[cegorach]

All right, it is even more time consuming than expected.


I will post it all in this place, updating the post.

I want to deal with each 'nation' in Imperator's packs, one after another.

This should give a better picture what does he have and hopefully a general view what we can expect.

zweihander if you would be so kind to ask him about availability - please start with Landsknechte and possibly with something from my list.

I expect it will take three days to post all animations I am after.

I will use names of the pack the author used, same with the units, this should help him locate the models.

Let's start. I'll use GIFs with key animations (usually close combat) - click it to see the animation.


Egyptian V

Syria Auxiliary 17th C, Sudanese Infantry Mid 19th C

First for variety, second because it is the only blackskinned infantry model with a firearm which looks relatively suitable.

17735

17736

Egyptian IV

Egyptian Pikeman 16th, Egyptian Mameluke 17th

Pikeman for genuine muslim spear/pike armed infantry. Could be great for Persian pikemen from reformed army of Abbas the Great and Grenadan citizen militia as well as for other uses.

The cavalryman.

He is using a bow which is very useful, but there is another trick we could use with this (or any other) model i.e. place it in Camel directory which seems hardcoded to give combat bonuses when fighting in a desert and penalties when fighting in lush areas - could be excellent for african units which are not used to climate in northern Europe.
Just give it an invisible mount with the same directory and it could work. If not we will have another cavalry animation which is not a bad thing.

17737

17738

Egyptian I

Egyptian Archer 16th C

One of very few animations of archers who also use close combat weapons. Could be useful for very many units from several factions. One good quality is that it doesn't look too egyptian so can be shared with some factions in Europe.

17739


Ottomans
==========

Ottoman I

Albanian Light Infantry 1820, Akinji Light Cavalry 16th C

Albanians are great for Balcan infantry from the south - Greeks and Albanians.

Cavalry gives another muslim animation. Could use Camel directory.

17741

17740

Ottoman III

Bosnian Frontierman Mid 18th C, Deli Light Cavalry 17th C

The Bosniak is just another model for variety and has a pistol animation perfect for pirates etc.

The Deli could be useful also for early hussar models, plus it has a nice javelin throwing animation which is rare.

17743

17742

Ottoman IV

Janissary 17th C, Janissary Archer 16th C, Janissary Grenadier Early 18th C

Elite Ottoman infantry deserves good treatment, plus the archer can be used for different units if the head is changed.

There is also a nice granade throwing animation excellent for several elite muslim units from late period.

[17754

17755

17756

Ottoman V

Lybian Kuloglu Late 19th C

Another muslim unit. half clothed so perfect for various irregulars and units from Africa.

17747

Ottoman VI

Tufekci Musketeer 17th C, War Wagon 16th C

The core of Ottoman infantry of the 17th century, plus a Warwagon animation which could hopefully be altered (Oxes instead of mules, different infantry etc)

17753

17752

[Stazi]

I wanted to look for them first. I think I have some of those.

We will see if Poser models are available though.

I wasn't asking about those particular models. I was thinking about any pictures form the net, history books, etc.. Why? I've just learned how to extract models from Mount & Blade (together with animations) and how to use 3ds Max to take a series of screenshots for MTW animations. There are a lot of good expansions (With Fire and Sword, Napoleonic Wars) and mods: The Deluge, some Renaissance mods and even free OSP stuff like this https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,327745.0.html . If you'd show me what are you looking for maybe I'll find something that fits. Of course, it's not as fast as models from Civ3,4,5 because you have to compose a whole soldier from parts like torso/armor, head, helm, boots, gauntlets, shield, weapons, etc. but it makes the system very flexible. I'm not fully satisfied with the results of the exporting process now but I'm sure I'll get better.

[cegorach]

I wasn't asking about those particular models. I was thinking about any pictures form the net, history books, etc.. Why? I've just learned how to extract models from Mount & Blade (together with animations) and how to use 3ds Max to take a series of screenshots for MTW animations. There are a lot of good expansions (With Fire and Sword, Napoleonic Wars) and mods: The Deluge, some Renaissance mods and even free OSP stuff like this https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,327745.0.html . If you'd show me what are you looking for maybe I'll find something that fits. Of course, it's not as fast as models from Civ3,4,5 because you have to compose a whole soldier from parts like torso/armor, head, helm, boots, gauntlets, shield, weapons, etc. but it makes the system very flexible. I'm not fully satisfied with the results of the exporting process now but I'm sure I'll get better.

I understand now, but I think we could start with those CiV3 models - always saves a lot of work if something can be found.

Besides this way only a couple of units will have to be made - you already have a lot of work with this mod. Frankly an astounding amount of work and this really can wait.

Also in some cases it is hard to define how a perticular soldier should look like - there are no sources I could use - so maybe similar Poser models could be altered. A different head is often just enough.

For example there is a very good Warwagon model in Imperator files, but it is for the Ottomans. If infantry models could be replaced with Polish/Hungarian style infantry it would be perfect for all factions using the warwagons in the game.

Back to posting GIFs...

[zweihander]

Cegorach, please post a link of the thread on CFC. Posting GIF is ok, but not necessary, if this can save your time.

[cegorach]

Cegorach, please post a link of the thread on CFC. Posting GIF is ok, but not necessary, if this can save your time.

I am using the names of the sets - isn't that enough?

GIFs give you (and me) better picture how those animations work and why I have chosen them and no others.

Besides uploading the files takes very little time.

[zweihander]

Ok, that's alright.




Also in some cases it is hard to define how a perticular soldier should look like - there are no sources I could use - so maybe similar Poser models could be altered. A different head is often just enough.

Of course it is possible.




For example there is a very good Warwagon model in Imperator files, but it is for the Ottomans. If infantry models could be replaced with Polish/Hungarian style infantry it would be perfect for all factions using the warwagons in the game.


Not sure, but I think it is possible too.

[zweihander]

I wasn't asking about those particular models. I was thinking about any pictures form the net, history books, etc.. Why? I've just learned how to extract models from Mount & Blade (together with animations) and how to use 3ds Max to take a series of screenshots for MTW animations. There are a lot of good expansions (With Fire and Sword, Napoleonic Wars) and mods: The Deluge, some Renaissance mods and even free OSP stuff like this https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,327745.0.html . If you'd show me what are you looking for maybe I'll find something that fits. Of course, it's not as fast as models from Civ3,4,5 because you have to compose a whole soldier from parts like torso/armor, head, helm, boots, gauntlets, shield, weapons, etc. but it makes the system very flexible. I'm not fully satisfied with the results of the exporting process now but I'm sure I'll get better.

An intereting discovery! Could you post a picture of your achievement? Don't need to be the final result or something 100% perfect, I just want to have a look of this new method.

[Stazi]

An intereting discovery! Could you post a picture of your achievement? Don't need to be the final result or something 100% perfect, I just want to have a look of this new method.

I'll post one with all parts glued together later. Till now I was just checking options and learning how to render properly.



Egyptian V

Syria Auxiliary 17th C, Sudanese Infantry Mid 19th C

First for variety, second because it is the only blackskinned infantry model with a firearm which looks relatively suitable.

17735

17736

There is another black skinned handgunner in Egyptian I pack but doesn't contain any melee attack animation.

17750

[cegorach]

There is another black skinned handgunner in Egyptian I pack but doesn't contain any melee attack animation.

17750

Yes, that is the main reason why I have not chosen this model. Plus the gun would have to be modified because it is from late XVth century. Both Morocco and Ethiopia would need something newer.

[cegorach]

All right, Egypt, the Ottomans so actually the whole of Middle East and Africa is done.

I'll continue tomorrow.

[zweihander]

Ok. but remind you that some attachments GIFs are down, such as the Janissaries.

Edit: you have chose so many units and just for the Muslims, are you sure we have enough directories?

[cegorach]

Ok. but remind you that some attachments GIFs are down, such as the Janissaries.

No, but they are displayed as links, just click the link and you will see the image.


Edit: you have chose so many units and just for the Muslims, are you sure we have enough directories?

We have very many, besides I am assuming not all those units will have Poser files. Final selection will have to be made based on the files we can get.

I am assuming 3 animations will go into one directory (infantry) or 2 in case of cavalry and muslim units are the biggest problem with the current animations, only a single dedicated infantry animation for several factions. Too few.

[zweihander]

No, but they are displayed as links, just click the link and you will see the image.

Click on the link shows:
Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator.

--------

Imperator hasn't response yet. Here is the preview picture of my Landsknecht-halberdier(unfinished):
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17751&d=1457498872

[cegorach]

Click on the link shows:
Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator.

Weird, I've checked yesterday and today they even do not show up in the list of attachment.

Thanks for noticing.

I've edited the post.

--------


Imperator hasn't response yet. Here is the preview picture of my Landsknecht-halberdier(unfinished):
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17751&d=1457498872

Do you think there will be enough space in the same file the double-men use? Or will you need another directory for this and pikemen/handgunner models?
If 3 animations can be added in a file it would be perfect, but in this case it can be less. I guess pikemen models will be decisive to judge how much space is necessary.

[zweihander]

The halberdier would use the body of the landsknecht light pikeman as well as the handgunner and pikeman. This one is just an alpha version, for weapon and animation testing.

My plan is to put Landsknecht light pikeman, handgunner and halberdier into one BIF, but leave the Pikeman's weapon as an independent item rather than on his hand. Then we will have enough place for these 3 unit. And maybe 4 is possible too, if there is enough place for the fourth unit in the same BIF, I want to make the Forlorn Hope(wielding a shorter two-handed sword) with the body of the landsknecht light pikeman.

And the doppelsoldner would be remake with Imperator's material, I haven't decide which units will share the same BIF with it yet.

[cegorach]

If you need more than those two directories let me know.



I'll continue with Imperator's graphics. Here because there seems to be a problem with too many attachements in one post.


Poland, but not only Poland
=======================


Polish Units Part I

Polish Hajduk Arquebusier 16th C, Polish Pikeman 17th C, Cossack Infantry 17th C, Polish Hussar 16th C

The Hajduk is one of obvious choices mainly because of Hungary - and it has an axe which is nice.

The pikeman - despite the mistake with yellow uniform (it should be blue, yellow is simply bleached ) - will be great for Poland and Russia, maybe even for the Cossacks.

Cossack infantry is very useful because there are too many units using the same cossack animation in the game and this one doesn't
use faction colours.

The Hussar - only optionally, if there is space.

17757

17758

17759

17760


Polish Units Part II

Polish Fusilier 18th C, Polish Grenadier 18th C, Polish Pikeman 16th C

The fusillier and the grenadier are great for general use, for many factions if faction colours are used. I think that one directory, the one which right now harbours line infantry from NTW could be used to keep all early XVIIIth century animations this mod will need.

The pikeman could be nice for units which do not use pikes - zweihander what do you think?
Removing the pike and replacing it with a shield or just nothing and we have nice dismounted cavalry or light infantry.

17763

17761

17762

[dimitrios the samian]

Great work guys ! ...... fantastic

[zweihander]

2 directories for the various lanskanechts(except heavy pikeman) should be enough.

But I need another one directory for 4(maybe more) kinds Pikeman(German, Spainish, Italian, Heavy landsknecht).

And another one directory for the Shield&Sword unit, haven't decide which units should share the same BIF yet.

[zweihander]

Here is some units I want to request, left to right:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17769&d=1457603015

German Front Rank Swordsman 16th C,
The best sword&shield unit model I have found.

Italian Pikeman 16th C, Spanish Pikeman 17th C, German Pikeman 17th C
There names suggest there uses.


What do you think of them?

[cegorach]

The mod needs more pikemen models so I am positive.

Sadly we cannot afford going into specialised animations every time, but this will certainly add a lot of variety.

[western]

Love those pikemen models. Lack of good pikemen always hurt the immersion with PMTW. After all, the period is all about the pike (and musket). Like Ceg says, the variety will be great.

[cegorach]

Here is some units I want to request, left to right:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17769&d=1457603015

German Front Rank Swordsman 16th C,
The best sword&shield unit model I have found.

Italian Pikeman 16th C, Spanish Pikeman 17th C, German Pikeman 17th C
There names suggest there uses.


What do you think of them?

Have you received any files from Imperator? Perhaps it will take him more time to find those.

[zweihander]

No. I think he hasn't recive my PM yet, he doesn't go on CFC frequently.

And do you have the part 3 of units to list?

[cegorach]

Sorry, very busy weekend, but I think I have all units I need. Or at least almost all of them.

Here it goes.

Scots I

Very old set, so I am not sure if he has anything left... But those units are very useful.

Highland Fusilier, Highland Musketeer, Highland Pikeman

Only one of those musketeer units is necessary, but you could ask for both. I hope that it can be used for Highlanders with a shield, do you think it is possible?

17773

17774

17775

Dutch Units I

Dutch Artillery 16 C, Dutch Dragoon 17 C., Dutch Musketeer 17 C, Dutch Reiter 16 C

XVIth century artillery could be useful, but is no priority.

The dragon - dismounting animation is completely useless, but dismounted and firing is very good. So is the mounted Dragoon's animations. This way we would have at least three western dragoon animations for use for several factions.

The musketeer - great for variety.

The reiter - because we need more and the horse is different than other mounts.

17779

17776

17777

17778

[cegorach]

I'll use more posts because sometimes there are problems with too many GIFs and their presence is very useful.


French Units 4

French Front Rank Swordsman 16th C

I am not sure how many Poser files can be acquired. This is just in case. But an animation for western style infantry with a pistol is a must have in the game.

17780

European Wars Part I

French Artillery 17th C, French Line Cavalry 17th C, French Musketeer Garde

All useful, the Guard Musketeer is only for France, but the unit is so iconic for this period it would be a sin not to have it - if we can.


17781

17782

17783

[cegorach]

Danish Units II 2

Danish Caliverman 16th C

Alternative animation useful for various light infantry units.

17784

Swedish1

Livonian Reiter 16th C

Not many rider & horse animations are necessary, but this one could give us more variety in the XVIth century where very few are in use.

17785

Swedish4

Swedish Musketeer 17th C

A musketeer in a grey uniform - will be useful because not all models should use faction specific uniforms.

17786

[cegorach]

Russia 1

Russian Archer HM

No fight animation, but I need one animation for mounted infantry - it will ride a horse when fighting.

17787

Russia 3

Russian Arquebusier 16th C, Russian Caliverman 16th C

Only one is necessary, but it is nice to have a choice. A handgunner in chainmail useful for Russia, Georgia, Circassia, so pretty important.

Good I found those, because they have fight animations.

17788

17789

Russia 6

Russian Front Rank Swordsman 17th C, Russian Feudal Archer 16th C

First very useful, second just like above - for mounted infantry.

17790

17791

Russia 8

Russian Oprichnik Light Cavalry 16th C

Great for Oprychnyki, but useful for mounted infantry because it has a mount and a rider in the same animation.

17792

[cegorach]

All right I believe it ends the list.

I hope it will cover all or almost all needs. Now let's hope at least some can be found.

If not those GIFs are there to show what I am looking for.


What the list is lacking is Gallowglass animations and black-skinned handgunners with fight animations.

Second hopefully can be made from different animations.

zweihander, Stazi if you have any ideas please post them in a way which allows reviewing the animations - I think it can save a lot of time.

[zweihander]

cegorach Stazi

Some questions and suggestions:



Russian Arquebusier 16th C, Russian Caliverman 16th C

Only one is necessary, but it is nice to have a choice. A handgunner in chainmail useful for Russia, Georgia, Circassia, so pretty important.

Good I found those, because they have fight animations.

17788

17789

I prefer and 2nd one.


-----------------------------------------------



French Units 4

French Front Rank Swordsman 16th C

I am not sure how many Poser files can be acquired. This is just in case. But an animation for western style infantry with a pistol is a must have in the game.


I think the German Front Rank Swordsman 16th C from this pack (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=474592) is better than the French one. What do you think of it?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17795&d=1458002775
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17796&d=1458002775

-------------------------------------------------------



All useful, the Guard Musketeer is only for France, but the unit is so iconic for this period it would be a sin not to have it - if we can.
17783

I prefer the Musquetaire du Roi from this pack (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=427185), what do you think of it?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17797&d=1458002902

-------------------------------------------------------



Swedish Musketeer 17th C

A musketeer in a grey uniform - will be useful because not all models should use faction specific uniforms.

17786

Do you mean we should keep it grey in game or give it faction colour?

-------------------------------------------------------

Do you like the Austrian Reiter 16th C from this pack, with a lighter colour armour and a closed helm?

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17798&d=1458003332

[zweihander]

Dutch Units I

Dutch Musketeer 17 C

The musketeer - great for variety.

17778

Is the Dutch Musketeer only for Neatherland or for various use? If it is for various I suggest the German Musketeer 17th C from here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=344100) instead of the Dutch one.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17803&d=1458004103

-----------------------------------------

And I also suggest the Papal States Pikeman 17th C and Papal States Musketeer 17th C from here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=328346), give their uniform faction colour and use them as various late era Pikeman and Musketman.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17804&d=1458004111
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17805&d=1458004132

[zweihander]

What the list is lacking is Gallowglass animations and black-skinned handgunners with fight animations.
Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=525130) is a gallowglass made by Balam-Agab, or we can just use the unit animation of doppelsoldner.
https://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q542/GNVincent/IrishRenaissanceSwordsman_zps2f9e4ed1.gif

[cegorach]

I think the German Front Rank Swordsman 16th C from this pack (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=474592) is better than the French one. What do you think of it?

Looks good to me. If it has pistol animations it would be acceptable.




I prefer the Musquetaire du Roi from this pack (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=427185), what do you think of it?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17797&d=1458002902

You are right, the pack is newer so possibly easier to find Poser files.





Do you mean we should keep it grey in game or give it faction colour?

I'd like to have him in grey, possibly with a small detail in a faction specific colour - it would be nice to have a grey musketeer and a detail such as a scarf or a feather would be enough to make him look different.




Do you like the Austrian Reiter 16th C from this pack, with a lighter colour armour and a closed helm?

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17798&d=1458003332[/QUOTE]

If we find space. We have a black horse thanks to LOTR animations so when choosing horse & man animations I am trying to find something different - not brown, black or grey.



Is the Dutch Musketeer only for Neatherland or for various use? If it is for various I suggest the German Musketeer 17th C from here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=344100) instead of the Dutch one.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17803&d=1458004103

I'd like to have the Dutch one, but the German can be used as well. We will see how much space is left after all this, and which files are possible to find.



And I also suggest the Papal States Pikeman 17th C and Papal States Musketeer 17th C from here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=328346), give their uniform faction colour and use them as various late era Pikeman and Musketman.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17804&d=1458004111
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17805&d=1458004132

Yes, it is very good and can replace current PMTW pikeman/musketeer animation with a hat.



Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=525130) is a gallowglass made by Balam-Agab, or we can just use the unit animation of doppelsoldner.
https://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q542/GNVincent/IrishRenaissanceSwordsman_zps2f9e4ed1.gif

If he provides the files that would be great.

[dimitrios the samian]

...."not relevant"

[dimitrios the samian]

...."not relevant"

[zweihander]

Hello Dimitrios! Sorry that I'm too busy these days that I have no time to reply your post.
I just put the 12 frames in the correct place manually, but Stazi had provide a tool here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?151489-Converting-Civilization3-unit-animations&p=2053688053&viewfull=1#post2053688053), you can have a try.

[dimitrios the samian]

Hello Zweihander
Thanks for responding & its ok you did not answer in detail .
I have decided its wiser I begin with our existing bifs & learn that first .
But ! I say again what you are doing here on cegs mod is amazing ....
Keep up the great work guys .
cheers
D

Hello Dimitrios! Sorry that I'm too busy these days that I have no time to reply your post.
I just put the 12 frames in the correct place manually, but Stazi had provide a tool here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?151489-Converting-Civilization3-unit-animations&p=2053688053&viewfull=1#post2053688053), you can have a try.