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boneyman1769
11-12-2002, 20:57
Lurking for months, newbie to The Org so must post here.

PP Rebellions have already been talked greatly about on the MTW site. Unfortuneately one aspect of the uber-rebellions has been overlooked. Now that unit construction is limited to E/H/L periods the rebellions provide a viable way to get around these limits. As an example, Wales. When playing the English it has been agreed that bribing the army for its Longbowmen is a good way to go. Now all you do is bribe the army, move it out get a rebellion, rinse and repeat. You will in all likelyhood also be getting FK, FFK,ItInf and asundry cannon fodder(or should that be Heavy Cavalry fodder?). You do not have to play this way, but it sure helps when the Spainairds or the Elmos show up with KoS, OF and the Pope only knows what else in stacks of 4 and 5 packed to the tip top of the flag. How do they get such big Armies? Easy, if you have watched the computers performance in the past. They get loyalist rebellions all over the place because the computer will take a province and then not have enough to stop a rebellion from occurring. Enough for now, sorry for the long post.

Gregoshi
11-13-2002, 00:02
The bribing idea is all well and good if you have the florin to do so. Last time I tried to bribe an army, a peasant looked at me sadly and gave me a hunk of his bread. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Mithrandir
11-13-2002, 00:04
Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Nov. 12 2002,17:02)]The bribing idea is all well and good if you have the florin to do so. Last time I tried to bribe an army, a peasant looked at me sadly and gave me a hunk of his bread. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
ROFL
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif.

barocca
11-13-2002, 03:28
ah Gregoshi,
you must have been a .deadringer. for his dear dad languishing in debtors prison
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Gregoshi
11-13-2002, 07:56
I was always told dear old dad was a loner. Now I realize they meant loaner. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

SmokWawelski
11-28-2002, 23:27
I see some more problems with rebellions as well.
First one is how the AI can gather so many troops in such a short period of time. I know that rulers were not quite efficient in gathering taxes and their income from provinces was limited due to waste, corruption and aristocratic influence, yet they were in charge of the provinces and the training infrastructure. How then rebels can mass huge armies of high quality troops quicker that the king? I am troubled by year-after-year rebellions of knights and high-powered cavalry in some provinces...
Another question is how the AI can incorporate into rebellions units that a particular province cannot produce? For me this is plain cheating, even though I have seen posts about the Ai being able to hire mercenaries for rebellions.
And finally, there is a level when the province should be exhausted by constant fights. I mean there are only a limited number of rebels that can fight and abandon their homes and families, after which there should be a period of peace, in a sense...I think that there should be a point when the instinct of surviving should win over the instinct to fight with the king…

Gregoshi
11-29-2002, 06:35
Your last point is one I'd like to see in the game, and not just for rebellions. Constant warring has got to wear down the population. Also, does a province have enough quality people to continually crank out high tech/quality units?

As for the troop quality of the rebellions, some speculate that the rebels hire mercenaries just as you could. That explains some of the odd units that are part of rebellions. The other explanation is from one of the CA guys - they wanted to make sure the rebellion was strong enough to stay around for a while. That said, some complain that rebellions are too strong while others complain they aren't strong enough. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

NorseGod
11-29-2002, 14:37
Agree with all that's been said.
However, has anyone else noticed that these rebellions can occur in provinces that said they had 0% chance of rebellion?

This seems to happen later in the game (when you're winning). The only way I have found around it is to give it something - like withdraw troops from a province where I'm besieging the castle. If I put enough troops in to prevent the rebellion in that province it springs up in another one that said 0% chance.
I thought they were gonna fix this?

SmokWawelski
11-29-2002, 22:48
The other explanation is from one of the CA guys - they wanted to make sure the rebellion was strong enough to stay around for a while. That said, some complain that rebellions are too strong while others complain they aren't strong enough.

I agree, but the rebellions could also gather more followers (and power) and spread after they start. In my games I have not really see other provinces joining the rebellion, or the rebels gaining troops over time. Their number seems to be static. However, the fractions engaged in civil war attacked my neighboring provinces and were more creative, and this is how I would envision rebellions.

PS. Thanks for welcoming me to the forum :wave: .