When the going gets bloody...

[ShaiHulud]

There will come battles in which, despite your superior intellect, bad things will happen. You kill his general, but, alas, yours dies as well. Or, you break him on the right but your left flank collapses. Or, you face all of that and horrendous losses, too~ Here are some thoughts on how to hold it together.

Togetherness... your troops, having suffered great losses and/or minus a general, will have serious morale problems. Bring them back together on the battlefield. They often get scattered in pursuit or fleeing but, once surrounded by friends, will get some needed boosts to morale from having friends nearby. Even units of 3-4 men can give those boosts from nearby behind or on a flank. Likewise, badly depleted units such as these give the same benefit as full strength units when they get on your enemy's flank or rear, even if they aren't attacking. Archers who no longer have arrows still have uses in this manner, too.

Reform on a hillside, when available. They get improved morale for good terrain of that nature.

Re-order the units. A 20 man unit 4 or 5 deep will have better morale than the same only two deep. You're no longer trying to cover a front, you're trying to survive.

Exhaustion... In long battles (and pursuits) your troops can become exhausted. Move them to good terrain and DON'T move them again until they must. Pushing them beyond their limits, when exhausted, can cause them to rout. Give them a chance to recover a bit. Watch those stamina bars and cycle them in and out from battle to rest when you can.

When the troops are very tired, yet must face enemy reinforcements, stop pursuit when the enemy flees. Even successful troops can break when exhausted and/or too far from friendlies during pursuits. Maybe the enemy will rally, maybe not. Just be sure yours don't break. One fleeing unit can cause a battered army to rout.

When no other action by you is required, use Control-A and keep an eye on that RALLY BUGLE. Rally whatever remnants you can. It's very easy to forget to do so in the excitement (hehe).

When your general's unit is badly battered, don't commit him to battle again unless it becomes truly dire. Center him on your remaining force for the morale benefit he provides. Move him as close to the fighting as possible without getting him involved. Above all, beware enemy missiles.

When your archers are low, but, still have arrows in these long battles, hoard them and pick your targets. Often, you can break the exhausted or shaken enemy with a volley or two and give your foot a needed respite. So, switch archers' fire on and off and choose the best time and targets for them.

I've found that winning the battles in which I learned the above was much more satisfying and more memorable than all the rest. Good luck

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[Dark Angel]

Good tips. Thanks.

I agree its more fun when you are tested by unexpected occurances.

What do you do when this happens:

Defender facing inferior but more cavalry foe I retreated to higher ground. Some of my units the routed as they were demoralised by constant retreat. However hard I tried they kept running even though enemy were still not in sight.

My general was 4* theirs was no higher. I disbanded the units once I had won out of anger.

Best wishes

[Spetulhu]

And remember to check that your formation is correct. It happens that units start moving on their own once you press that 'begin battle' although you thought they were placed OK. Especially important in defence scenarios where you really want to hang together against superior enemy troops. A square formation is no use when one spear unit gets it into their heads to stroll away to the left...

[Gregoshi]

Excellent stuff Shai. I could have used some of that advice last night.

[ShaiHulud]

Dark Angel....

Cavalry are the hardest to rally because they retreat at their best speed. They are the main reason you should keep an eye on the Rally Bugle and hit it as soon, and often, as possible. They, also, tend to get into their trouble away from their fellows, flanking, pursuing, and such, so they can be broken easier. The good news is that they can outrun all the foot that might pursue them and keep them from rallying. Although I've never done so, it would be possible to move your general close enough to give a routed unit his morale benefit. It might be enough to rally them before they exit.

Regarding the scenario you proposed, if my troops had a good advantage in valor, I'd spread them thin and extend my line (a la Alexander). If I had little or no advantage in valor, I'd make their groups deeper, on the assumption they'd have to fight longer and, thus, would need the morale boost.

I'd try to find a position in which at least one flank is anchored by terrain, eg; a pond, woods, village. The first would be impassable, the others would break up enemy formations as they reached me and, hopefully, weaken their attack values.

It isn't clear, from your example, why your initial position had to be given up and, thus, your units had to keep retreating. But, when I've had to retreat in the face of pursuit, I've sometimes had to offer up a sacrifice in order to get the rest to a better position. A depleted, high-valor unit serves best in this situation. Use Control-R to speed the rest away while the sacrifice gives his all 'for the Regiment'.

At any rate, before a unit breaks, his flag will begin to flash, indicating that he is wavering. In such an event action must be taken to either face about and restore some morale, and/or deepen the formation to the same purpose. Likewise, if no friendlies are nearby, get them some support. DO NOT keep retreating.

In a fighting withdrawal it's important to keep units parallel and clear of obstruction. Those with a friendly unit too close in front of them will find themselves marking time until the blocking unit gives them room to move. With an enemy closing, they tend to panic when their rear is open.

All in all, a lot depends on the V&V's of your general. A brave general with personal valor boosts does nothing for an army's morale. A 'Gentle Knight' who is 'Honorable' and a 'Fine Leader' can ask much more of his troops. Remind yourself of your general's skills before each battle begins by using F1. Again, good luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[SmokWawelski]

Very good tips http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[HopAlongBunny]

Very good tips http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Need to remember that even when all goes according to plan...sometimes the plan is flawed.

I had a battle (SP) where I had a pile of v0 militia sgts, spears and arbs; enemy were mainly woodsman and arbs. I engaged the right flank and began to swing center and left to envelope...perfect

The spears, acting as hinge started to waver...wtf I thought, we have them don't rout The spears Exposed their flank to an engaged woodsman as they crossed into the enemy rear, thus the moral problems. Fortunately, the woodies took a bigger moral hit for a unit to their rear and routed...starting a chain rout. It worked...but it could easily have gone against me.

Always keep in mind the quality of material you are working with http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[SmokWawelski]

Yes, during my initial engagements I was surprised how much the quality of troops, morale and mostly experience level, have to do with their performance. My overwhelming and balanced forces, with which I attacked some armored infantry and archers, were mass routed by contra tacking AI. Not only the AIs troops were able to push back my initial charge, but also were able to break through the center of my formation.
Quite harsh but memorable experience http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Naagi]

Well im glad you mentioned archers giving a bonus. I usually use up my arrows before most of my fights end, so to save my very valuable archers, i tend to withdraw them. Now i believe ill just place them close by some heavily engaged units for support. Now i just have to build up some good generals again, mine all seem to have disappeared and i didnt lose to many battles to start with.

Naagi
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[SmokWawelski]

Yes, the generals, another important part of the mix. An army without one is like asking for a masacre...

[solypsist]

Something most MPers know, but many SPers might not:

A unit's valor increases during the course of a battle, as kills are inflicted and losses are felt. So use your units wisely: use middle-strength units to take on weaker opponents, so their valor will be higher when needed to fight off strong enemy units. If done well, even though you are overwhelmed and outnumbered by the enemy, your men should at some point out-class the enemy and be able to fight a little better (and longer) when grouped together and after some resting.

[MrJedi]

Quote[/b] (solypsist @ Dec. 03 2002,13:00)]Something most MPers know, but many SPers might not:

A unit's valor increases during the course of a battle, as kills are inflicted and losses are felt. So use your units wisely: use middle-strength units to take on weaker opponents, so their valor will be higher when needed to fight off strong enemy units. If done well, even though you are overwhelmed and outnumbered by the enemy, your men should at some point out-class the enemy and be able to fight a little better (and longer) when grouped together and after some resting.
So its not figured out aftwerwards, but during the battle?

[ShaiHulud]

[QUOTE]So its not figured out aftwerwards, but during the battle?

It's also calculated after battle, when the AI consolidates
units automatically. Some of those depleted units may be gone, but their value isn't lost. It's just diluted, on the whole, if they merge with lesser quality troops.

[MacGregor]

High valour units are awesome I have been outnumbered 3 to 1 in battles before and seen the inexperienced enemy troops run away after only a few minutes of fighting or not even bother to attack at all. Originally I thought there was some kind of glitch in my game because the enemy would get in sight of me and then just take off, but then I realized that my men had 3 times as much valour as any of the enemy units.

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[Foreign Devil]

Quote[/b] (SmokWawelski @ Dec. 03 2002,12:41)]Yes, the generals, another important part of the mix. An army without one is like asking for a masacre...
Soly is right on this one... I play mostly sp and I automate a fair number of battles. I really should stop doing that, need to work on my tactical skills too.

[A.Saturnus]

I had a battle yesterday that made me think that maybe all the victories over superior numbers I had, were not due to my skills but the quality of the force.
I had a good general, Italian infantry holding the centre, chiv knights in the flanks, halberdiers and order foot. The map was flat but my arbs got many of his archers. I don`t think I did a big mistake, and however outnumbered, I expected to give the AI a good fight. So it was a desaster and why? Because the enemy had lots of CMAA that slaughtered my Italian infantry. Two more units of chiv knights and I had easily routed them.
The same year I had a battle against 2500 rebels. I had 88 losses and they 1500. Because my tactics were so good? No, because they had mostly peasants and archers and I chiv knights and pavese arbs.
Not the numbers count but the worth of the troops you bring to battle. Of course strategy makes a big difference but many battles are decided before they begin. So don`t just keep an eye on your battle tacticts. Fight with armies that are carefully constructed and consist of worthwhile units and your battles will be much easier.
A good general fights only when he knows he will win
Sun Tsu

[SmokWawelski]

“A good general fights only when he knows he will win -Sun Tsu

Very true. I find it most useful to win battles through forcing AI to retreat from a province without picking up the battle. Of course, there will be a grand finale, when the AI accumulates large army with which to fight back, and some of my units need to garrison in the new provinces, but somehow this tactics has worked so far… Of course you have the option to retreat afterwards to your initial positions and leave behind burned rabble in AI-controlled territory. War is sweet http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mr Frost]

Whenever I am unsure of an upcomming battle , I save game and do tests in Custom Battle to work out which units to send and what tactis to employ . It makes a big differance .