Who is your favorite Hybrid Unit?

[pyhhricvictory]

Who are your favorite hybrid units? (men like the Turcomanfoot or the Bulgarian Brigands)

I have become somewhat smitten with the flexibility that these guys can give an army an would like to get other peoples opinions.

Personally I like the Turcoman Foot. I can use them in the desert or into the heart of Europe if necessary. I like being able to hold the line a bit longer if they get hit by an enemy unit allowing my cavalry to get there and run the little bastards through. (the enemy, not my guys)

Jeez, that last phrase was poor use of the English language. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[LadyAnn]

Howabout the Jan.Inf.? These guys shoot arrows and can have a decent fight. At 350, it is a bit more expensive than archers (225) but archers don't fight at all.

I also like handguns, albait hard to get in SP. Handguns can fight too, useful to assist the clean up of routing enemies.

Another multi-purpose unit availble to the Turks; Jan.Heavy. These guys do a lot of stuff, except shooting arrows.

How about Pavise Crossbow or Arbalesters? They can shoot, they can screen so your troops can start the advance. They can bait cav into charging them frontal, and cav run sometimes

Any horse with a bow or crossbow is dual purpose. Harrassment is the specialty, but I found that the morale is a bit of issue: as soon as they are a bit far behind the enemy line, they start to waver.

Treb.Arch and Bul.Brigants are also dual purpose: they can melee a bit when arrows ran out.

Annie

[Alrowan]

the way i use pav arbs is to take them off skirmish, and use hold formation in the front of your lines. in mp most people expect them to run, but when they hold, it gives you a brief chance to easily flank your oponents.. try it sometime

[Nikitas]

My preferred faction is the Byzantines and they have no light cavalry unit without using mercs or location based units(like the steppe cav). So I always have a couple of Byzantive Cavalry units in my armies. They are good archers, and they have some good speed when I want to chase down routing units.

[rasoforos]

treb archers are cool for me

[Mr Frost]

Boyars , the hybrid Kings

[Mr Frost]

Also , the House Maid/Conqubine is very popular http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[A.Saturnus]

I like the nizari, although I haven`t played all of the others. They are good for schock and have high morale.

[All_the_Sultan's_horses]

hmmm. why do u like Turcoman Foot, pyrrhicvictory? i've found them to be a real dud in melee. the way u've described, u seem to use them as a kinda speed bump, to absorb enemy charges so tt yr cav can charge home. but the best speed bumps are defensive troops, such as spear-types. Turcoman foot won't hold a second when charged. in fact, they're more like pure archers than a hybrid

even with better hybrids like Janissaries, i find their missile capability a real waste. with their cost, i'd certainly not use them in the speed bump role, esp when Saracen infantry would do so much better. in fact, i'm not convinced abt the usefulness of hybrids. so what if they can shoot? bows simply don't cause significant enough casualties. maybe if there was a hybrid with crossbows, now...

[pyhhricvictory]

They are not the front line of defense, but if I get distracted by another part of the battlefield, they may hold long enough to rescue them, instead of the immediate route that I get with archers. I tend to play a fluid style of battle with lots of cavalry and do occasionally forget about my main line.

I do use spears to absorb the main attack, plus in a pinch, I can charge the Turco's in for some added push. Since I play primarily SP for now, they work pretty good. Plus they are light enough to go desert fighting without getting so tired.

[Foreign Devil]

I agree with Nikitas, I like Byzintine Cavalry too. And IMO, archers, especially mounted archers, can be very potent if used correctly. I like to send few units of byz. cavalry out in front of my army to try and break up the enemy formation somewhat before my foot soldiers get there. They're fast enough to get out of there quickly if they need to.

[HopAlongBunny]

Futuwwa.

Excellent missle troops; fast and absolutely deadly from the flank or rear. Their morale seems good enough to be used with confidence on all sorts of suicide missions; when it works they gobble up the opposition

Actually Boyars are my fav but I'm playing a Turkish campaign right now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Musashi]

I have kind of a hard time choosing, honestly. Boyars are awesome, Sipahis of the Porte would own if only they came in bigger packs... I love Ottoman Infantry (Shock troops with bows, mmmm) and Turcoman Horse, and Byzantine Cavalry, and and and...

Basically I just love hybrids in general, especially the polearm troops (Which I consider hybrid shock/spear troops).

-Musashi

[pyhhricvictory]

I agree with you. I buy the ottoman infantry whenever I can, since I usually play as European I can never build them. I get some kind of wierd satisfaction sending them on crusades to crush the infidels. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[All_the_Sultan's_horses]

Hmmm. archers, esp mounted archers, can be deadly if used properly? tt just hasn't been my experience so far. when i use lots of missile units or hybrids, what usually happens is tt the enemy immediately sends his heavy cav charging. so i'm forced to retire my archers and meet his charge with my infantry. then, successively, the enemy regiments come into contact and mine as well. once melee is joined, pure missile units can play no further part given the risk of friendly fire. or they play a rather peripheral role by continuing to fire at enemy missile units.
the hybrid units will by this time be engaged in melee too. in other words, they wouldn't have had time to really fire off more than a few volleys, i.e. their missile capability has been largely wasted. even with horse archers the above scenario recurs very frequently, because even if my horse archers can keep out of the charging heavy cav's reach, the foot archers, hybrids and infantry can't. so the horse archers cannot prevent general melee from breaking out, THUS THEY END UP PLAYING NO FURTHER SIGNIFICANT ROLE. except chasing routers, which is only done when u've won. IF u win.
basically, i just dun see the efficacy of missile units or hybrids. unless the enemy has left his cav at home.

[Musashi]

I just let my archers keep firing into the melee. They don't kill that many friendlies really.

-Musashi

[LadyAnn]

[EDIT: I admit that usefulness of cav arch is less important now when archers in general are weak and doesn't do much against even slightly armoured infantry. However, the usefulness is still in its harassment nature. Perhaps it doesn't justify the extra costs, that's another issue].

The key is if use properly. I am not the expert of horse archers, but you are right in the first part, something wrong in the second part:

1. You send horse archers to harass enemy (preferable at the flank). Must be careful that Cav.Arch. are more vulnerable to missiles than normal archers, due to smaller number and larger target area.
2. If the enemy has spears on the edge, then fire on them. If they send archers out for a duel with you, avoid the duel and withdraw the cav. arch.
3. If the enemy sends spears out trying to catch your cav.arch, it's easy job, just skirmish away and continue fire.
4. If the enemy sends cavs out to chase your cav. arch, then cav arch run back behind your line and send out either spears or better cav than enemy's cav. The point is to trap enemy's cavs with spears. Don't send spears out too far. Just far enough to trap cav, but not far enough so he is alone.
5. If enemy withdraw cav, then his cavs become target of your own fire, including your cav. arch.
6. If enemy sends archers for dueling, turn your tail, harass the other side of the map.
7. You may also find that the enemy's missile units are busy firing duel with your own missile units. Then he can't fire on cav.arch.
8. If enemy got mad and send out foot troops in big wave, then cav arch has achieve his objective: make the enemy moves and present his flank to you.
9. When enemy send spears, send swords to meet him. When the enemy send cav, send spears. When the enemy send swords, send cav. When they send a bit of everything, send your whole army. Meanwhile, direct your fire to the infrantry mass.
10. Another possibility is to produce your counter attack.
11. Cav arch then could either emty his arrows on the non-armoured troops, or walk around to the back to spoof the enemy (better be accompanied by some knights or spears).
12. Cav.Arch. could be used to chase the units that are running. That's also one of the best job for cav arch.

I know, its easier said than done. That's why I am doing the talking now. Go do it

Annie

[Mr Frost]

I nominate the spork as the worst It mostly fails when used as either a spoon or a fork in my experience http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Exile]

My favorite hybrid is Ottoman Infantry. They are trainable early on and I prefer their tight fromation vs. the looser formation of the Turcoman foot. This way I can pack more of them onto a hill and/or maintain a less spread out overall formation. It's rare I use them as infantry, usually as a last resort or for flank/rear attacks. They're too expensive and not sturdy enough for frontal attacks on regular infantry IMO.

When I play the Turks Ottoman infantry are my archer unit of choice. It makes for easy cleanup after battles.

[All_the_Sultan's_horses]

Thanks for the good advice, Lady Ann. but as u can see having written a whole column of advice, it takes a real Alexander to micromanage them and the rest of the army as well. i prefer idiot-proof armies myself. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and even so i keep pausing to redirect and redeploy my troops. could never do so in the heat of realtime battle.

for me its not tt i disdain missile troops, its just tt i feel their only real contribution is in forcing the enemy to advance towards u, like u said. for tt u dun need horse archers, or even a lot of foot archers, just a few units at the most of pavise crossbowmen. they have range and power, plus more importantly, resistance against arrows. this means the enemy cannot silence them with counterfire, and thus he has to advance. having forced the enemy to advance, u've presented him with a stark choice. advance slowly and in a coordinated fashion, and suffer longer in the hail of arrows, or charge ahead ASAP and be overwhelmed piecemeal.

i do have maybe a unit or two of horse archers if i can afford it, but only to chase down routers. using light cav for tt's wasted, since it only happens after u've more or less won, so might as well get horse archers since they can contribute fire. but certainly i see little special abt hybrid units.

well exile, i would ask, what do u mean by easy cleanup after battles? and if u use ottoman inf in tt fashion, keeping them out of melee, would not normal archers suffice?

[Exile]

What I mean by 'easy clean up' is after the battle is over I have only one unit with casualties (others merge) I shift the casualties to the unit with the least upgrades and then send that unit off to be re-equiped. Plus I don't have to keep notes of which province to train particular units, etc. It's easy management for when the empire gets large.

I use ottoman inf vs. regular archers because in the epic battles, I can use them to flank after they run out of ammo. Or if things go bad, to hold the line tempoprarily until I can get reinforcements there. I've not had much luck trying either of those tasks with regular archers, they die quick and flee before I get a chance to send aid. In 75% of my battles I use Ottoman Inf. just as regular archers, but they're worth the cost for those occassions when I need their better h2h ability.

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] ]
I nominate the spork as the worst It mostly fails when used as either a spoon or a fork in my experience


Are you serious? It absolutely kills meat soup

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[rasoforos]

death to the sporks and diet cola

[Vrashk]

Yeah, I agree with horse archers or just archers need a lot of attention, Sometimes I've been working with my main force, only to notice that my archers/horsearchers just forgot to withdraw that one time (even though they were in skirmish mode) and got slaughtered. I've had very good experiences with a large group of archers though.. while crusading, 5-6 units of archers along with 4 spear units has managed to beat off a LOT of what the infidels sent against me. This was quite light armoured troops though, such as beduins, sahara cavalry and nubians/abyssinians..(At least they LOOK lightly armoured) when the saracen spearmen came, it all went to hell. luckily, I dominated the sea, and could send reinforcements from italy constantly.. Sadly these troops came at a large cost. I had a run in with the pope earlier because I lifted a siege of one of my castles after counter-attacking the sicilians by invading sicily.. uhm dispose of him.

When he came back my troops constantly made loyalist uprisings in Rome (whom I retreated with and sent to the holy land). I got automatically excommunicated for the uprisings, assassinated the pope... loyalist uprising again.. and so forth. I figured I wanted to get rid of him the easy way if he excommunicated me again before, and destroyed everything I found in Rome. So the pope wouldnt have any proper defence with decent units. Now he has trouble with catholic bandits(Since he cant produce troops yet, and he refuses to ally with me. The only way to help him is to get excommunicated again (Since you automatically start a siege if you beat the province holders, the rebels) And I want the pope, to be able to crusade.