Catapults and such....

[TenkiSoratoti]

Ok woohooo got into MP game for once, started the game marched to the enemy and bang i heard the very familiar sound of a catapult launching, the big boulder hit my pavis arbers (killing 4) then bounced and hit my h2h men (killing 9)then hit my generaLS UNIT (killing 4), ok one stone killed that many ppl.
Catapults etc have been my worst enemy ever, they destroy armys advancing and lower morale deeply. Just slightly irritating, even in the hands of the newest players they are lethal devices. For the last 10 games now someone has had a catapult or something of that nature arrrrrgggg, i attack so i dont use them even though i wouldnt use them anyway.
Is there some way of countering them because now i just look at MTW online as a joke this along with all the other bugs and imbalances make this a very poor multiplayer game.
At the start it was fine but now ppl are using methods that really destory the whole point of a fierce fun battle.

BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG not enough CLANK CLANK CLING CLANK.

please stop using them, they are a menace and lower the game greatly.

thankyou.

[MagyarKhans Cham]

u must be joking, live with it or die...

[Kocmoc]

no...he is the new kind of players, wich are impatient and just can rush if they face catapults

this players are not able to be patience and kill the enemy step by step......they just can moce theyr army as one big group ....

the skill get less every time i come and look around....

no phantasie....no ideas ......no tactic......

koc

[TenkiSoratoti]

God i new there would be some smart ass comments.

No i use tactics and i can still win but catapults really do lower the fun factor of a game. I dont rush at all, i patiently wait for my pavis arbers to do there bit then attack right middle and centre.

Ive tried all sorts of tactics but those catapults still get me even in the trees, 50% of the time they actually get my general which as you can guess will deeply lower the morale of my men.

I also asked for a help tactic against these cannons but obviously your your too intent on getting at me so ill wait for someone a little more decent to reply and doesnt put infomation across which has come straight from the dogs back side

(btw this aint info im putting across its more of what my opinion is, and yes it may be incorrect but kocmoc seems to think its a good way of saying "these people.....")

[AMPage]

Here is some advice spread out and don't pile your men behind one another. If your up against a lot of artillery and can't attack just spread out and use loose formation.

You will most likely lose troops no matter what, if they have artillery. Don't stay in party formation like most did in stw mi/we. In mtw you don't have to worry about troops getting dropped like flies by guns. So artillery isn't nearly as bad, unless someone has a lot of it, but if they don't get enough kills it's a waste.

[TenkiSoratoti]

This is true but what about the morale factor, doesnt the artillery lower morale and even in lose my men still get ravaged.
Hmmmmm, i think sacraficing some cavalry could be an answer.

[AMPage]

You have to be close to the enemy to get routed, if he is bombarding you at a fair distance moral dosn't matter.

If your taking heavy losses in loose formation you must be doing something wrong. Like i said you will take losses, but not a lot.

Sacrafice cavalry? I wouldn't even try it if well defended. Just keep your expensive units at a safe distance or make it so they are hard targets and use your weaker units as bait.

If your having that much trouble with artillery post a replay and i will take a look at it.

[Postino]

in a late MP game i usually use 2 cullivans. i aim of thick masses of armies, and i try to conserve some ammo for when the opposing army is closing for melee. if ther army is in a single line, i do not shoot them, the ammo to kill ratio is to poor and i would rather gtet the morale penality when he is engaging. this is for attack as well as defense; given a good place to shoot from, a cullivan can hit anywhere on the map.i dont use any artillery in high and late. i always bring 3 or 4 pavise Arbs. this is incase i have someone against me who has the sense to perform a long attrition, and for my own long attrition. i HATE being forced to attack b/c of an ally.

[Dionysus9]

Sora,

Basically what Amp, said, but I'll say it differently:

1) Don't get tricked into rushing just because they have artillery--this is the most common mistake, people see the arty, panic, and rush to their doom;
2) You can see artillery in the minimap before you deploy (little grey dots, you can expand the map to see better);
3) If enemy has artillery then deploy in more of a single line than in deep formation-- this stops bouncing and discourages the enemy from shooting at you;
4) Use loose formation;
5) Keep your distance and the enemies aim wont be good--just hang back and let them shoot at you from a distance;
6) Keep your distance and the enemy may use up all of his ammo shooting with bad aim;

I do all of the above and I haven't had too much problem with artillery. Yes, it is annoying, but once you close to H2H combat the enemy has less men to fight with. Aside from doing the above 6 things, I generally ignore artillery. In the end, one artillery doesn't kill more than one of my 100 man units, so even at worst it comes out close to even.

A person with artillery has less mobility, is less likely to leave his arty to help allies, is less likely to have a high level of skill, and is more likely to lose once he is out of ammo.

Try to run him out of ammo before you close to h2h. If you have to fake a charge to get him to spend his last bit of ammo, then do it and take the casualties.

[TenkiSoratoti]

Quote[/b] (Postino @ Dec. 01 2002,15:09)]in a late MP game i usually use 2 cullivans. i aim of thick masses of armies, and i try to conserve some ammo for when the opposing army is closing for melee. if ther army is in a single line, i do not shoot them, the ammo to kill ratio is to poor and i would rather gtet the morale penality when he is engaging. this is for attack as well as defense; given a good place to shoot from, a cullivan can hit anywhere on the map.i dont use any artillery in high and late. i always bring 3 or 4 pavise Arbs. this is incase i have someone against me who has the sense to perform a long attrition, and for my own long attrition. i HATE being forced to attack b/c of an ally.
Hmmmm like i said i dont use artillery.

Thanks for the advice i shall test it on the field, been away, so may be its my rusty tactics which are letting me down, although ive gone from 90% wins down to 50% so i have to change, or i just havnt been able to tackal the artillery problem.

[LadyAnn]

I am repeating what other have said but I hate the artillery so much I must find ways to defeat them (to date, I have resist bringing Art. Units to the battle field out of doctrination).

1. In small maps such as Crecy, deploy spread out;

2. When in 3x3 and especially 4x4, if one enemy has art, and the other doesn't, you now know which side to attack. The one having cannons have to defend their prize possessions, so he will likely sit there watching his allies got ganged 2x1 or even 3x1.

3. I always keep reminding myself:
a. The art. will run out of ammo;
b. The more art. unit they bring, the less unit they can field to fight H2H;
c. Morale effect only happens for a few second and it affect much more you, the player, than the troops. If you can read the stats after game, you may find that for 1 or 2 units, the cannons kills doesn't add up to the cost of fielding them. Can cannon kill the entire 2 units of you (more than 80 men if small size units, 120 regular arb or MAA, or 200 for infantry/spears). What I am trying to say is that if I bring 4 units to the field, I expect to help route 4 of the opponents.
d. Once getting too close, the cannon is no longer effective.

3. I hate allies bringing artillery units, (but didn't say that to them in game, just grind teeth and slug on). I once played center and my allies on both side has art. units. I had to stretch so thin to cover both of them, with diastrous results.

In another instance, I was about to kill the opponent's general (on cav) when my artillery support has a friendly fire on my spears. The spears just touch the enemy's cav when a ball hit, and they break and run.

So far, I still think those who employ art. units prefer to be sitting ducks. Let them be and treat them the way they wanted

Annie

[Shahed]

Artillery in MTW is effective when used collectively, and it is very useful when you have good teamwork with your allies.

If i am faced with 4-6 culverisn (which has happened http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif ) I try to take em out with fast cav , if at all possible. Otherwise I arrange my formation so that the arty does minimum damage and then just go about business as usual. I guess that's why people get bugged about arty coz you can't always destroy them until you destroy the army around them So you just gotta watch your men pop off 1 at a time.

Historically speaking, I guess gunpowder weapons can't be so bad, they have evolved into today's ranged weapons which every single army in the world deploys.

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[LadyAnn]

Fortunately we are in the 11-14th century where exloding shells (which is only available later in 18th century) doesn't exist yet and hand guns are only of limitted range and accuracy.

So, let them bring serpentines. The more the merrier.

Annie

[Shahed]

Quote[/b] (LadyAnn @ Dec. 03 2002,04:59)]So, let them bring serpentines. The more the merrier.
Annie

Ahh yes I did'nt mention that artillery is something which was not available in STW. In MTW it is available so for the sake of variety and fun may as well bring em along.
Indeed, the more the merrier http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Sometimes miss them muskets from STW.

Peace.

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[Shahed]

Here's an interesting link about the development of artillery as a military branch.

Canon & Gunpowder (http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/tech/cannon.htm)

From the same page:

Employing Canon (http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/tech/cannon.htm#J)

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