Mobile Artillery

[AMPage]

You would like to be able to move your artillery around the battlefield or is that a painful idea?

Vote up and let me know what you think...

[Swoosh So]

I think yes to some but not all of the art units http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif catapult and cannons would be fine etc http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[bosdur]

It sounds silly at first amp, but I love the idea for big and hilly map,it's hard to judge the best position of ur artillery in such map unless until the battle start. But if it ever gets implemented there should be considerable obstacles in moving artillery i.e in gettysburg it takes time to unsetup artilerry to get it moving, to setup the artillery at desired location, and also the moving time itself.

[Swoosh So]

I think somewhere else the programmers said there were problems with the ai moving artillery http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Kocmoc]

not me,

i think this will become 1 more micromanaging point.
and units like catapults have already a lot of power in the atual range, if u can move them this units get even more power.

the other artillery already reach the whole field, and is very powerful, as i could see the most guys want to play without arti anyway...

koc

[Magyar Khan]

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[Cheetah]

for a Napoleonic TW it is fine, for the Medieval TW I say: NO http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[1dread1lahll]

Siege units already make the game too much like a shooter game, Gone is much of the tactical manovering of shogun (when siege is present). Not much skill is require to form a 1/4 circle in the corner of the map with 8 serps and 8 lancers...do away with them altogether...

[Shahed]

I'd say yes for this game as well as Napoleonic TW. But I do remeber that the devs have alreadsy mentioned in another post, it was too much work to get the Ai to understand moving and redeploying arty. I'm for a preogression of the TW series, IMHO arty is a lot of fun in MTW.

[Shahed]

Quote[/b] (1dread1lahll @ Dec. 04 2002,17:43)]Siege units already make the game too much like a shooter game, Gone is much of the tactical manovering of shogun (when siege is present). Not much skill is require to form a 1/4 circle in the corner of the map with 8 serps and 8 lancers...do away with them altogether...
Hmm i see ur point

Anyway I think MP is an arcade version of MTW. Don't you think ? Compare SP with MP.

I hardly ever see any tactics being applied. Most ppl i seen playing always use the same tactics. Play on flat maps, engage with spears to hold down the enemy's front, flank with cav and fast attack units (FMAA, CMAA, Ghazi etc..).

Other variations are the rush combo, ppl take Byzantines, play on flat maps, take 6 Byz inf, with some Varagians and Cav for variety, as soon as in range of the enemy archers, guess what ? all out charge/rush.

I don't think there is much skill in that either.

IMHO we gotta move up towards more variety in units and maps, to me artillery and sieges are a welcome addition to the TW series.

Cheers

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[AMPage]

I agree with SeljukSinan

It adds variety and forces people to use different tatics to counter artillery. You see lots of people playing flat maps bringing the same armies, including myself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif . It's all good, just some people dislike it cause they think it's to powerful or it's a cheap tatic to use artillery.

Artillery adds something new to the game and making artillery mobile will add more to the game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Btw the host can always ban artillery or set limits to how much is allowed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif So, if you don't like artillery don't play with it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

We need the abiltiy for the host to set caps on units during selection, but that will never happen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Lahll,

Are you dissin my 8serp 8cav tatic? That's not very nice... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
*hint* you will most likely suffer losses from all that artillery, but you gotta learn to spread out, open up, don't use party formation(all units close by)

Well, artillery will be dislike and like by some, aswell as other things in the game. If you can't hack it don't play it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Shahed]

Hiya http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Well pre-patch I faced an army of around 12 Swizz Armored Pikemen. It was rocky desert and I had 4 serps. Naturally the fact that it was rocky desert helped victory, but also that my enemy had neatly ordered up his pikes in 2 fat rows of six deep pikes. I lined up for the front row and opened fire on 4 different front row units. This was to maximise the spread of the canon rounds. Sure enough my kill ratio bar went from blank to 3/4th full green the moment the first volley hit, the bounce off hit some of the second row, and ....zip...... kill bar went up to almost full. I sent the Turcomens to harass and lead the pikes out, trying to make em chase. Caught a couple of em too far out from their main force to be rescued. This was a high florin game so I was able to afford Valor 4 serps crews, it sure paid off. By the time the main anti armor force of Janissary Heavy Infantry, arrived at the defender he already lost enough men to lose his defensive edge, what's more he actually got so frustrated as he expected nothing to beat the 12 Swizz army, that he burst into attack further deteriorating the Swizz powerful defensive bonus. This was a time that the serps really helped. And since the enemy had big slow units, only, there was nothing to be done http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Indeed IMHO making artillery mobile but slow moving will add to the game. I don't like getting hit by artillery (or anything else) either but when I am faced up against artillery it has made for some great battles. When I have artillery and the enemy does not, it has also made for great battles where some people actually dare to try and wrest your range advantage from you, using great tactics (hats off). Other battles enemy artillery posed no threat bcoz of fast attack cav that was able to take out the guns bfore they cud do serious damage. Some ppl don't expect that anyone is actually gonna try and con you out of your guns and are often caught by surprise. Artillery defintely gets me thinking up new tactics.

Lastly let's remember that all gunpowder weapons were meant to take the edge off the enemy "....now any stupid Ashigaru can kill a samurai." http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Here is a link I really enjoyed about the development of artillery (already posted elsewhere) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Hope you all enjoy it too.

Development of Artillery (http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/tech/cannon.htm)

Wishing you great games

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EDIT: I found the whole page informative but click here & you go straight to:

Employment of Canon (http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/tech/cannon.htm#J)

[Kas]

Moving artillery around (very slow I guess) is not a bad idea. Movement must be really slow, otherwise this game will turn into a tank battle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

In medieval times artillery was mostly used for bombarding city/castle walls...hardly used on the battlefield. I like to see a limit 2 or 3 max for "field" battles 4 or 5 for sieges. Probably too much to ask http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Kas http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


http://www.aggony.org/kasicon.gif
HIC EST KAS DUX

[Knight_Yellow]

So im the only person not using the same army on multi player all the time?
jesus if u think there isnt enough strategy then fine but trying to force ur veiws on the vast majority by making artillery better then thats when uve crossed the line. also u havent played that many ppl then have u, my freinds and i all use diff armies or different tactics regulary u will find that if u r a "jack of all trades but master of none" u will win more battles since ppl cannot predict what u will bring to fight with or how u will fight with it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[bosdur]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Dec. 06 2002,00:28)]also u havent played that many ppl then have u
I think almost all ppl who responded to this thread have been playing the total war series longer than I or you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Knight_Yellow]

Ive been playing the totalwar series since shogun came out? so wtf r u talking about?
i just aint been using the org for that long.
u do know ppl can be total war veterans without using the org?

[bosdur]

The main point is most of the ppl have played with many ppl contrary to your accusation. Duhh.... Besides who forced the view of empowering artillery, noone's saying "Artilery must be make capable of moving , anyone who disagree must die"

[Knight_Yellow]

Hey u do realise that "U HAVENT PLAYED WITH MANY PPL THEN" was done sarcasticaly dont u?
and yes i do know that no1 is forcing artillery to be mobile but i belive a strong position on opposing this matter might prevent a designer/modder from attemting it as every1 would take artillery all the time. the only way i would play in a game with mobile artillerty is if it was 5 times the price it is now to detter too many cannons being taken. also historicaly ppl didnt run around wheeeling cannons up and down hills they where set in a position and left there to fire.

[Gregoshi]

Knight_Yellow, did you receive an email from me? If not, please email me here: gbresslr@comcast.net. Thanks.

Sorry for the interrupt. You were discussing the pros and cons of mobile artillery, yes? Carry on please.

[1dread1lahll]

Flat maps make for a test of compairable skills between two(or more) players, rather than finding the tallest hill, to camp, so as to gain an impressive combat advantage,..their is little skill in standing still on a mountain......camping on mountains, in the corner, or map edge, shows poor style, lack of confidence, a desperate act seeking some combat advantage.......Large flat maps allows two worthy opponents to use the games marching interface, a vast array of brilliantly concieved marching and manovering commands to move aginst each other,(you dont move aginst someone if you camp). Mountains, catapults, edge and corner camping, reduce the level of skill required to play and reduce any satisfaction derived from the game.........To all who consider themselves somewhat skilled...could you find any joy in hosting 'Hastings' attack/late/desert take 6-7 serps, place them at the top corner with a 9 or so pumped up spears to protect them and wait for some poor noob to come in for a pounding? If you have said yes, reconsider that you consider yourself somewhat skilled, and check out Unreal Tournament..............

[Knight_Yellow]

ok i got the e mail and yes i shall from now on restrain my use of the english/scottish language in the org real sorry by the way. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

i completely agree with dread on that good post or olternatively check out combat flight sim very cool not a patch on mtw though.

[Shahed]

Indeed I agree there are varying skill levels.

Sorry I have no interest in Unreal tournament (ROFL) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif but I certainly will expand my Sim directory, as always, I am a huge simulation fan.

I don't think that anyone can really be forced to do anything. Noone is forcing any views here. As far as I know we are discussiing the prospect of mobile artillery. Everyone enjoys playing the way they want.

I really enjoy taking hill and castle positions.
Personally I find flat maps to be good but i think really it then comes down to which player better understands the game. Skill to me seems to be a very vague term. Does skill mean the guy who has the better comprehension of the games combat engine and stats ? the person with the better mathematical ability ?. I like variety sometimes flat, sometimes hilly, desert etc. I like to take hills as much as I like hill "camping". In real war skill I guess would be to achieve your aims while conserving the lives of your soldiers. That would be easily achieved in developing good defenses, both on the unit level, and on the tactical and strategic level.

Hmm errr where were we. Ahh yes mobile artillery. Well I have expressed my humble opinion on that one. Thx for the poll. I really enjoyed the constructive discussion in this thread all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Hope that I contributed positively to this discussion.

Wishing you great games

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[bosdur]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Dec. 06 2002,01:45)]also historicaly ppl didnt run around wheeeling cannons up and down hills they where set in a position and left there to fire.
Im looking at the perspective of gameplay wise, the game isnt purely historical and ultra-realistic anyway. There are many ridiculity that can be thought of. I remember a conversation with a fellow TW player Panther-Baby in the middle of a battle during stand-offs of survivors.

PB: How do I dismount my cav
Me: You cant do it in the midst of battle
PB: How realistic

Since there are so many ridiculity in the game, I've decided to reduce considerably my history perspective from the game and look at the game beyond its cosmetics.

[Knight_Yellow]

actualy how many times in history have u heard of knights dismounting and trundling into battle after theve already been taking part in it? im sorry but if sum1 says go kill them ppl ur better of on a horse unless there spears but still uve gotta remember that for thr most part knights where almost always on horse back and cannons where stationery if u think mtw aint that realistic and can therefor invent tactics that werent used back then how cum if i suggested a wooden tank ie. one of those big siege engines that attatch to walls with gun slots all around it be considered too unrealistic that would be cool but by doing so would in my opinion spoil the game, witch is essentialy what ur asking for moving artillery. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[bosdur]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Dec. 06 2002,14:43)]actualy how many times in history have u heard of knights dismounting and trundling into battle after theve already been taking part in it? im sorry but if sum1 says go kill them ppl ur better of on a horse unless there spears but still uve gotta remember that for thr most part knights where almost always on horse back and cannons where stationery if u think mtw aint that realistic and can therefor invent tactics that werent used back then how cum if i suggested a wooden tank ie. one of those big siege engines that attatch to walls with gun slots all around it be considered too unrealistic that would be cool but by doing so would in my opinion spoil the game, witch is essentialy what ur asking for moving artillery. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I'm all for it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif