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LadyAnn
12-13-2002, 01:17
I think the kill count doesn't reflect reality. Yet people boast kill counts all the time. Especially in a 4x4, kill count is just a nice thing, not reflecting someone's skill.

For instance, if you play pretty good and cause the opponent to route right out of the map (perhaps he is camping neat the edge) your kill count is low. But you have accomplished much more than a higher kill count, because you have eliminated an army while your troops are not tired to chase down each and every single routing enemy. YOu can then immediately assist your ally in routing the rest of the enemies.

In another instance, if I am facing low-number troops (all cav army only has 640 men/horses, army using foot knights also has lower headcount), I certainly lose more of my own men than killing/capturing the enemies, even in victory.

I have seen pathetic behavior of someone so obsessed with kill numbers so they prefer to chase enemies (these are the one I cause routing earlier) rather than helping me against another enemy, so he could get higher kill/dead ratio than anybody else.

Size doesn't matter. It's how you use it.

Annie

Dionysus9
12-13-2002, 01:22
Well, I disagree--size matters. You are correct about kill counts, though.

In "hammer and anvil" tactics with 2 or more players, one person holds against the entire enemy line while another sneaks around behind and flanks. The flanker gets an insane number of kills while the holder takes massive casualties. It usually takes more skill to hold off 2 armies than to flank, and so the "holder" gets far lower kills but works twice as hard.

Kills are just nice to have, thats all. It is much better to be on the winning team--and best of all to be instrumental in the win.

LadyAnn
12-13-2002, 03:12
Ok, I should stop refering to size, as I am risking stirring a controversy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif This is a family board afterall.

Annie

Knight_Yellow
12-13-2002, 05:02
As the mtw online kill's holder (i think) 2956 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
i must say that kills matter, in sum ways i personaly rout an army then i send usualy my gen on horse (merc calv) to stop them from rallying and the rest of my men, who r all inf usualy, take a minute to rest and then i attack the enemy closest to me, but allas sumtimes i charge into there lines too quikly as im filled with confidence. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
most times though a good kill level is just fun to have i consider my high kills a show of skill as i dont chase down routers with anymore than 1 unit. the 2956 kills came at a price 1400 losses i only got so many kills cos i completley encircled my enemy's and managed to rout them into another line of my men. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

AMPage
12-13-2002, 05:29
Size matters, but it's all about how you use what you got and what the situation is. When facing an army of 100 unit size units and you got lots of 40 unit size cavalry, you got to fight an army sometimes up to twice the size of yours. It's not always easy getting around and flanking with smaller units, when they can sometimes just make a huge wall of 100 unit size units. It takes tatics to win with what you got, but when you get an army of 100 unit sizes thats played well fighting almost to the last man, that smaller army will most likely die out.

I think kills and losses are nice to show, but we need more. Maybe at the end it could show everyones size of army, army worth, kill worth, kills, losses, generals killed, enemy units routed and have a final score listing the players 1st to last. Maybe you could give a higher honor score for routing a full unit then capturing a unit. It would give a higher score for someone who routed an army, then the person sitting in the routing path getting the kills.

Scoring dosn't help much to show everyones work in the game, but it's nice to have.

Knight_Yellow
12-13-2002, 05:41
why do u consider killing routers not good?
it stops them from rallying and causes all sorts off panic to there allys plus it gives ur men lotsa valour and increases there moral.
thats only my opinion no need to "moan" "whine" or prove me wrong if u dont agree with it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

bosdur
12-13-2002, 05:46
I agree to your points, but making a good kill rate percentage and outnumbering enemy unit actually gives morale penalty to the enemy unit for the former, and both morale penalty to enemy + morale bonus for us for the latter. So it does matter to an extend.

Of course kill size doesnt affect how good your doing, if you have been struggling in the real world for some time this should be of no surprise. For example, test scores doesnt really affect your overall understanding in school http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

AMPage
12-13-2002, 09:10
Who is considering killing routers isn't good? I think everyone knows that it stops them from rallying, gives moral boost, causes panic of enemy allied units and such... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Alrowan
12-13-2002, 18:44
you only realy need to chase the routers until the message aprears that says
"XXXXX's armies are routing off the field" or whatever..

after that i just let them run, it causes me no concern anymore, and i move to help allies

generally, though when i get my enemies routing, i let my light cav chase, and being to help my allies

Knight_Yellow
12-13-2002, 23:05
Yeah light calv chase inf rest then attack enemy flanks works most of the time. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Krasturak
12-19-2002, 08:27
Gah

You should all admit that the kill count is the *only thing* that matters in MTW.

This is why taking small units like Cav and Varangians is *cheating* ... it robs your opponent of his rightful huge pile of heads after game.

Gnish Gnash Gni

Cut heads off first. Maybe win game later, if still hungry.

Gah

Swoosh So
12-19-2002, 09:50
A guy once said to me its not the size of the wave its the motion of the ocean http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif


SwooOOOoooooshoOOOoOoooOoowl

TheLastEuropean
12-19-2002, 19:50
Sun Tzu said the best way to win was without killing anyone. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

shingenmitch2
12-23-2002, 17:02
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif swoosh, he was lieing...

GAH, Krast is correct... nothing worse than routing an all Kensai army and having only 16 kills to show for it... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

youssof_Toda
12-23-2002, 17:09
Still I rarely see unskilled players get over 1000 kills