Knights

[FasT]

IMO id say yes But they should be correct?

if u disagree which unit u think?

[Stormer]

of corse they are you have ur genrral as them and you always get knights they so dominant and ussally are the deciders of a battle.

[and another thing....]

most important = yes
most useful = http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

If playing as a catholic faction I like halbediers - they can double as both spearmen and maa. Given an upgrade in arm and weaps,they can decimate other units. I put halbediers up against knights (gothic,chivalric etc) and done some real damage

Playing as other factions, I haven`t really found a favourite unit yet ( though boyars are quite useful and so are ottoman infantry under the right conditions)

[rasoforos]

no i wouldnt say they are the most important. they act probably like a very strong power and effectivity multiplier. This is because if you just use knights for your army youre probably gonna lose badly and get a bad value for your money. But if you use em properly in a nice ballanced force you can make your army MUCH stronger than it would be without them. for me the most important unit has to be those little insignificant infantry men that kill the spearmen and let your knights play ball after that. ( my point being that the most important unit is the unit you cant do without , hence your basic unit)

[Dionysus9]

Well, this game could use some balance but it isnt unbalanced enough that I can say any one unit is more important than all the others.

Knights have a lot of power, but they are expensive and vulnerable to beefy spears. I've seen all-lancer line charges get eaten up by balanced armies (as well as see them destroy balanced armies). It just depends on how you play the game.

This game comes down to a clash of player styles as well as units that are fielded.

Pav Arbs can be absolutely devastating if used correctly. Of course, against heavily armored knights you need spears or other knights to let the pavs do their work. Your cav will be vulnerable to enemy spears, so you need swords to kill the enemy spears....etc. etc.

I dont think any one unit type is more important than the others. I've seen Alan Cav destroy knights....it just depends where you put your money and what style of play your enemy adopts.

[Puzz3D]

Dion,

I agree the v1.1 MP game has a lot of balance to it, and this is where people making stat mods should be careful. It's not hard to make the game balance worse. Make ranged units too strong and you back to the projectile wars of WE/MI v102. Pav arbs at full strength get 1 or 2 kills per volley (they have 28 bolts) and take something like 10 minutes to use all their ammo as they sustain casualties in a typical battle, and yet I've seen players claim that pav arb are too strong. My point is that, if ranged is made strong enough to stop an infantry charge, you're into Projectile Wars and I've had enough of that in WE/MI. Remember, nothing can catch the cav archer in MTW. Right now all battles require hth engagement to decide the winner, and ranged units can't destroy advancing inf units. Even at the battle of Agincourt, which is often refered to as an example of the power of the bow, the archers failed to stop either the cav or the inf assaults.

[Magyar Khan]

in competitive games horsearchers are close to useless. and that a pitty cuz they can add a lot of flavour to a battle.

well whatever, before we agree we are on tw roman and a new area of whining can start.

[rasoforos]

they are not exactly useless ( as the mongols can proove) but they need a lot of macro . i believe that if the leadership of an army could be shared and one could get the horsearchers then they would be devastating

[Kocmoc]

lol



it isnt about controlling, its jsut about damage
the cavarcher dont do some damage, thats the problem

[evilc]

Telling horse archers to run back you your lines if enemy cav starts chasing them isn't that hard (unless your inexperienced). Units that need micromanagement are units like naptha throwers.

[Magyar Khan]

Quote[/b] (rasoforos @ Jan. 10 2003,10:03)]they are not exactly useless ( as the mongols can proove) but they need a lot of macro . i believe that if the leadership of an army could be shared and one could get the horsearchers then they would be devastating
well its commonly know horseharchers and cav in general are my speciality but i will never adviose someone who fights for his life to take horsearchers.

4 knight vs 2 stronger knights and 2 horserachers of teh same costs arent the same worth.

[FasT]

okay...horse archers more effective yes>>>>>>>> http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
But from the little i know and ply this game needs a anti cav /archer units.....
Ok u can take spears but flank them from behind and they rout http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Why cant we have anti cav like the Yari Cav in MI.All i see now is 4 chiv serg and 4 feud serg.:pissed:
And lots of knights.heehhe lancers

Come on guys get a life and try different armies
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Enjoy and learn........ http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[rasoforos]

Kocmoc i think the mongols use the quite effectivelly . i mean even if you beat them you have to spend 10 minutes and quite a lot of losses to eradicate their archers afterwards. i still stick to my oppinion that micro is their problem since they are not tactical units but exist to harass the enemy lines and cause disorder. i believe that if the AI could manage the horse archers of my army with a no losses , flank the enemy strategy then they would be great.

[LadyAnn]

Who said there is no anticav cavalry?

1. Camels Ok, they are not cavalry proper, and they are slow, so no hunting, but they are anti-cav alright (perhaps not on high florins game). Only Almohad and Egyptian got them.

2. Gothic Knights. Since most strong cav has high armour, anti-armour bonus would make a difference. Only Italy in late got it.

3. Mameluke Cavalry. Same as above, even cheaper. Must be properly upgraded (couldn't use it as val 0), but Mamelukes are anti-knights. Only Egyptian got it.

Well, you are right, there is no anti-cav cavalry proper. There is no Yari Cav.

Annie

[FasT]

So a anti cav(Yari cav) would improve game much more...

[LadyAnn]

I forgot the spanish jinette. These guys could be used as anti-heavy cav cavalry, but it's a bit tricky to use. I have no consistent success with it, but sometimes I can kill off some cav using this.

Put jinette out of skirmish mode so you could let them wait the cav to come close enough for a javalin throw. Throw the jav and turn tail running. Jinette runs faster than regular cav, but if you are not careful, jinettes could be caught. All in the timing. But I am burned many times with the gamble, so not sure it is a good tactic.

Preferable to run back to your spears, or other heavy cav, not to your pav arb.

Annie

[Magyar Khan]

raso as i said before u can easily use cavarchers for that but when u get them in position to shoot they kill not enuf and 1 volley from teh arbalesters and they many are wasted.

[LadyAnn]

That's true Magyar. Here is what happened in a battle.

40 cav arch runs up, perhaps the owner forgot and click "go attack pav.arb." The cav arch trotted up and was in the middle of 3x60 pav. arb. First volley, 15 down. cav arch still goes in closer, cause he's out of range. When cav arch is in range, just stop to draw their arrows, another volley of arba came, cut cav arch down to under 10. Cav arch manage to killed 1 arba before running (3 remains). The dead arba must have mooned the cav arch and got hit in the butt.

And then cav arch are cowards too. Sent it to the back to flank and harass, is it suppose to do, it simply run when feel lonely. At -1 honor start point, this guy is just a bit better than peasants (-2).

Annie

[Magyar Khan]

but i can understand why not many are interested in settling teh horsearchers where they belong, they disrupt your battlelines, too many tactical opportunities which give u headaches, and u may give me an advantage u cant overcome http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Dionysus9]

I miss cavarchers. and the fog.

[Knight_Yellow]

LOL calvarly my armies contain only 1 and thats my gens merc calv who usualy dont get upgraded beyond val 1 cos i only use him to chase routers.

my inf army can cut up horses at a good rate and thats without using spears or halbreiders. gimmee fued foot knights gallows and militia any day.

[FasT]

Yeah why dont they bring the fog back????

Many vets worst nitemare i guess http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif