Multyplayer Code of Chivalry

[Alrowan]

ok guys, the idea of this thread is to discuss and outline a set of "war rules" for competitive online games. The main idea and inspiration for this is that aweful thread between the wolves and fear.

My aim in this thread is basically come up with a basic set of rules that all can follow and adhere to when playing in a competitive manner online.

Discuss below all the issues to be considered...

just an example, the use of all cav armies, byz inf, and lancers. Try to keep your ideas fair, and no slander of others ideas are to take place, if the do mods, please sort it out. This is to stop all arguments about whats fair and not in MP

[TheDanesZandy]

There is nothing fair in war - The game itself sets the rules . As a warrior you have to adapt to any enemy army and be prepared to face any kind of rush .

Byzantines cav rush , i dont mind you can beat anything stop winning and be a true warrior . Setting ruels to ensure a " fair " fight is a laughf in war -

The winner tells the tales afterwards ;o)

Feel free to rush me with Byzantines - cav loads of cannons or any other thing on-line its not a winner if you think so . Its jst a question of tatics to beat those things , thats what make a true warrior .

TheDanesZandy

[LittleGrizzly]

all cav armys *slits several throats*

byz inf they have low morale so theres they're weakeness

lancers just get a unit with armour piercing on them and they'll die

so all cav armys is my only one i disagree with using

[LadyAnn]

Chivalry has nothing to do with using or not using certain army types. So bring on the lancers, and the byzantines, I'll respond with my Rush-on army http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif What is more chivalric (as related to horses) than a cavalry army? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I think chivalry has to do with the following:

1. When ladyAn ask for a seat in a full 4x4, somebody gets up and leave so she can take the seat; Otherwise, leave seat for strained clansmates is a honorable thing to do. Or when the host ask you to leave, please leave. He/she has the power to kick you out of game anyways, but he/she is chivalric enough to ask.

2. When ladyAn is in a game and she is winning, the host please don't quit the game, even if you are the first of her victims. Otherwise, host don't quit at all, that's quite a peasantry to do. And even give about 1 minute for other players to record the game, even if you are a real battlefield joker in that game.

3. Stop asking ladyAn about her age/sex/marital status. Actually, never ask about these things to any lady, online or in real life (that's the best tip ladyAn could give to help the nerds out there).

4. Never talk rape, fart (or pretend farting), swearing (the filthy kind, not the fealty one), burp, etc. in front of ladyAn, or any lady in that matter.

5. Don't spam. Only the town stutter can do that, or else you will feel quite lonely as everyone will start ignoring you.

Annie
ps,: EDIT: ladyAn is realizing she is a good clown by not reading the topic more carefully... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Postino]

on the feild chivarly means poop, it won't get the win. be Hannibal on the feild, take all the advantages you can.

Honor on the feild is another matter entirely. Ann has it about right, probably abit missing from it infact.

and Ann, on #3, what about undying declarations of love to any Lady of the Feild? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Kongamato]

I do not care about rules for my opponent, but teammates must be held to some sort of standard. Here are two rules which I think are virtuous for teammates to abide by.

Unless an agreed team strategy calls for non-versatile armies, all teammates must bring armies capable of facing any threat.

Without balance, either on a personal or team-based level, victory can only be achieved through fortune.

The player who brings 15 catapults without informing his allies beforehand imbalances and endangers his team before the combined might of the enemy forces. The teammate who is silent before the battle effectively states, in silence, a commitment to balancing the team. If a teammate rushes with cavalry, the silent one accepts the burden of balancing the team. If such is impossible, the teammate's continued silence is ill-advised.

The player who brings a cavalry rush force and informs his teammates beforehand effectively makes it the responsibility of his teammates to create a balanced team. Thus if the team is imbalanced at the beginning of the battle, the cavalry rusher is not to blame, for his teammates have refused to object to his choice of army, and have refused to make any effort in balancing the team.

Assistance of your teammates should only be asked for when a proper degree of assistance will result in mutual gain.

The player who rushes with 16 Byzantine Infantry in lines 2 men wide and 50 men deep resulting in his immediate routing, any request of assistance from his teammate that is acted upon will only result in severe morale penalties, outnumbering, and routing for the assisting units. This is not mutual gain. Not even if in assistance, an entire army was sent into the fleeing hordes would there be mutual gain, for the ill-fated altruist now faces two armies and a mass of fleeing friends.

When the teammate asks for assistance to prevent an egregious disaster, and such assistance requires an agreeable degree of effort, and results in both armies having the upper hand, the result is mutual gain. Such requests of assistance are not discoraged by this rule.

This rule is not meant to discourage altruism, but to regulate ill-fated requests of assitance. At the core of a plea for assistance is a challenge to the honor of one's teammate; for the honorable teammate is bound by honor to help a friend in need, and an improper request of the honorable teammate's assistance will only result in the destruction of his army or the further questioning of the quality of his honor.

[Alrowan]

interesting how people seem to flame this in an instant.. i guess its because they think that anything can be alright in MP... so if people tend to think that, then why do others complain when they are cav rushed?

i would like cav rushing armies to inform thier enemies beforehand though... give then a chance to paick an anti horse army

[Knight_Yellow]

emmm heres my rules

1. no dumbass suicide runs witch requires me to got and sacrafice my men to help my ally.

2. no stats experts who know exactly waht x does to y in c ocassions

3. no silly armies like 16 longbows or all calv since they suck and cant engage head on so its effectively a 3v2

4. no moaners

5. bring as many lancers and byz inf as u whant, thats what my whole army is used for byz killing plus mes ponies deal with the lancers.

[Brutal DLX]

In response to kongamato,

Personally I feel morally obliged to give assistence even to the foolish ally who rushed ahead, if there is a chance to be there before he is completely broken. It may doom the whole army, but I am allied and we stand and fall together...

[youssof_Toda]

We already have some sort of unwritten code. Imo no need to make some sort of official code, it will only lead to disputes.

[baz]

everyone has there own perception so its hard to discuss .. hopefully most of us can reach compremises with the ppl we play with http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[vexatious]

I find it hard to have strong opinions on unit balancing issues. There is a tension between the principle that "anything that the game permits is fair" and the need to maintain strategic diversity in unit selection and army composition. So, for instance, the problem with the all cav army is that there are only a few possible army compositions that can beat it. Imagine what would happen if EVERY ATTACKER used the all cav army...every defender would have only a few options in terms of army composition. The fun-value of the game would be greatly reduced if everyone was forced to take a certain kind of army (i.e. spear wall armies, all cav army) just to beat the all cav army. We would lose what I term "Strategic Diversity"- the idea that in any given match, a player has the realistic option to take any one of a number of possible armies. Thus far, it is not the case that everyone uses the all cav army...but it could happen. I know that this is not directly on topic, but here is my standard for determining whether my army composition is "slimy":

Principle: If the use of an army leaves opponents with so few viable options that the game loses "strategic diversity," then use of the army is unfair.

I realize that a number of ppl would object to this principle on the grounds that choosing a superior army is an integral part of the game. I agree. But, as stated above, any army that is so powerful that it simply cannot be beaten except by an army expressly designed to beat it undermines the playablility of the game by denying opponents the fun of strategic diversity. Moreover, it reduces the importance of "on the field" generalship by entirely determining the outcome of the battle in the unit selection phase. I hope that this post is not hopelessly unclear.

WRT to Lancers, the single line approach is risky. The single line is easy to flank, and if double teamed by 2 units of decent cav, it fails. It's also easy to generate a rear attack against the single line. The use of the Lancer single line does not unfairly restrict an opponents army composition options and hence does not run afoul of the above stated fairness principle.

[Swoosh So]

I can see why alrowan started this post but the thing is noone will ever agree to terms as everyone plays their own way, Tournaments are the only true show of strength as they are structured and have rules which every player has to adapt too, The fear v wolf War? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Is a good example nc wanted to win by any means he said so in his first post but most other player have played the battles according to their views on honor/chivalry thus the games look about even at the moment, put these games in a structure which makes it a fair battle and the results would be different, If your serious about all of this maybe its ABOUT TIME for a monthly league or battle compition to start, many have failed in the past but id like to see the members of the org (perhaps) the mods get involved after all those peeps have been around for eva http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Id be interested in setting up these compitions but i dont play online at the moment but we could post rules and such forth at the org barracks (if soly dont close it first http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ), So what do you say wqanna give it a try? We would need some online moderators for the online games and could collect results here at the org.

[Krasturak]

None of the unit imbalances present in MTW are as bad as the super-ashi issue was in MI or the Monk issue in STW.

The game is acceptable as it stands, and since the primary function in the game is to cut heads off, why bother with cumbersome rules?

Especially since it will certainly lead to endless arguing about who is following these un-enforceable rules and who isn't.

Give it up, and let sleeping dogs lie.

[DthB4Dishonor]

I think there are very few Universal rules which dont infringe upon individuality, creativity and different philosphies about sportmanship.

2 things I think are above all these.

1)dont quit battle when you still have units on the field.

2)dont attack allies on purpose.

IMHO everything else is subjective and not universal.

RTKPaul

[1dread1lahll]

People (hosts) have already imparted 'rules' to the game; dispit that some sneer at 'rules'. I host nonsiege rules, meening that you dont bring siege weapons to the game, if someone does it is the surest way to get a restart of the game..

[Swoosh So]

Yep i noticed jericos game says jerico no artillery http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I can see why peeps have no artillery games, recently i played a 2v2 with shingenmitch and we were attacking a big mountain getting pelted with artillery all the way to the top 6 serps i think http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Alrowan]

well the game hosts that i see with the funniest rules would have to be the games that say "no modems" i have an unusual habbit of joining these http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


i love my 56K

[ElmarkOFear]

I have been reading this thread and think that a page from the new UGLI website might be appropriate for this discussion. Please take alook at the following URL. I believe it is fairly comprehensive in its scope and does not get into what is right or wrong concerning army selection. Let me know what you think. Here is the URL: Ettiquette (http://home.insightbb.com/~el-marko/etiqette.html)

[Swoosh So]

Elmo you are just too nice pity i dropped from that big game u hosted , Oh well ill be back playing in about 4 months (joke maybe 1 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif).

[Dionysus9]

Quote[/b] (ElmarkOFear @ Jan. 27 2003,13:29)]I have been reading this thread and think that a page from the new UGLI website might be appropriate for this discussion. Please take alook at the following URL. I believe it is fairly comprehensive in its scope and does not get into what is right or wrong concerning army selection. Let me know what you think. Here is the URL: Ettiquette (http://home.insightbb.com/~el-marko/etiqette.html)
I agree with all of those rules, and I think they summarize what we've been talking about in this thread.

All of them except #13...I've broken that rule a few times and I rather enjoyed it.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Alrowan]

heh.. they are a good enough set of rules

except 15...

[tootee]

Good guides Elmo, except rule 10 doesn't apply to us SG usually. We train to play by eyes and feel of the battle, verbal communication is minimal.. which can be a good thing as there is less typing to do.

Rule 15 is a point I constantly uphold.. that explain why I'm usually playing on your side http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[ElmarkOFear]

Rule 15 is my favorite http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I may not be on in a few days. My PC has gotten a virus and I have to reformat to get rid of it. May take me awhile to get things back up and running again. So if you do not see me for a few days, don't worry Elmo will be back soon. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Krasturak]

Gah Gah Gah Gah Gah

Gah Rule #9 Gah

Gah Gah Gah Gah Gah

[youssof_Toda]

I'm honoured that my name is being mentioned in ur guide http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif but it's youssof or is yousoff a petname?

PS Nothing can be more true than what is stated in rule 13 (should be 15 srry). We love you elmo http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif

[ElmarkOFear]

LOL Youssof. Thanks mate. I will change it as soon as I get my desktop PC back up. I am using my laptop to get in the forums right now, so I cannot make the change since the info. is on the bad PC. Elmo has to download a bunch of stuff off of it before he does a complete reformat.

[Magyar Khan]

was that during SHSgate? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[ElmarkOFear]

Elmo pats poor Magyar on his head. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif It's very hard getting old. The memory is the second thing to go . . I can't remember the first one though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif It actually did not start out as an SHS issue until someone mentioned the supposed cheating incident in the SHS forum. And I am still not sure how Youssof became one of the targets. I believe it was Out4Blood which was initially accused. What it turned out to be, was the accusers' lack of knowledge of the game's mechanics and not cheating. They did not know how morale was affected by using certain tactics and they could not figure out why they were routing. Since this knowledge was not readily shared with everyone at that time, it appeared to some as if the entire Wolves Clan was using a cheat, when in fact they just knew the game better than most others. I was guilty of not stopping it before it got out of hand, after reading statements made by both parties. It was mishandled by both sides, and poor Yousoff and Out4Blood were portrayed as bad guys for a month or so. The SHS did have a good effect on the community though, making people aware of how their actions and words reflect on not only them but any organization they belong to. The reason I am going into detail, is not for your benefit Magyar but for the players who came in after that fiasco. I remember when we asked for some Wolve Clan members to join us in our discussions, all turned us down. Your fear of false accusations, became sort of a self-fulfilling prophesy, in part because of your clan's lack of participation in the SHS. I believe Kocmoc or yourself, would have been able to stop the accusations before they got out of hand.
After this incident, I began my idea of the UGLI's. A non-clan that played only for fun, and never competitvely, nor for ladder rankings. This casual atmosphere has served many clan members and ronins over the past year and I enjoy the game much more now than when I competed as a Fearful Ways member. Although it was fun beating up on you Wolves in 3v3 and up games http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
I am very glad the Wolve clan stayed around after the horrible MI/WE game. The community would be less without you guys playing. Also, whether most like you or not, I consider you a good friend as I do most of the Wolves, (except maybe for Macajor&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif LOL I also appreciate all of the campaigns, tourneys, ideas etc. that you have contributed over the years. Your either real stubborn or a real optimist to have stuck around TOTAL WAR after we have been snubbed over and over again by the developers/pblishers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Well everyone that is the story behind the section concerning false accusations on the etiquette page of the UGLI site. Have fun and cya on the battlefield http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[bosdur]

3 Cheers For UGLI

Hurrah Hurrah Hurrah

Long Live UGLI Long Live Elmo

[youssof_Toda]

Quote[/b] (ElmarkOFear @ Jan. 28 2003,15:27)]how Youssof became

poor Yousoff


It's youssof with a small y http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

PS ever since that day I consider it a compliment when someone accuses me of cheating in any game.

[ElmarkOFear]

LOL Yousoff with a little y . ok yousoff. Man this nickname spelling stuff is hard http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I have never been called a cheater yet . . guess I have to win a game to be called a cheater http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[LRossaLordJimi]

I think code of chivalry is very important for who want get some valour on the community of knights http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
And this mean two things:

first in the educational sphera,like don't insultin,no racism words (agree with UGLI etiquette,lol for #13)...many time i see someone come in my game and say:you will die,you will die and other lovely things...and then,when they lose they say stupid italian vaff... then escape... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
So if someone have allies he just must be ALLIED,not play for himself,stay in a corner etc.

second in honour sphera.I mean if i take 10 artillery and shot on enemy general until he die,and then maybe i make a cav rush on the low-morale enemies:i don't find this funny and where is strategy?
Where is strategy with all cav flankin enemies and get him routed? I think is just the way people don't like loose get....
Yes,every people have his own way of play,and then i come out of this game,this is a free world http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

For this,i have my own code of chivalry choosin units:max 4 units for type,but max 2 artillery ,at least 3 missiles troops.
Never escape and look the match until the end,every time give a hand on my allies,and recognize good gamers or superiority of enemies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Ave