Civilizations that weren't mentioned by CA

[JANOSIK007]

Please I would like to know why have you chosen what you did? ( Within historical context ).

Thank You http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Spino]

I chose the Iberians.

The Scythians- Possibly. Barbarians but I can't see them as a Minor faction. Plenty of skirmishes with the Seleucids and Parthians or anyone else who takes over those regions.

The Slavs- Possibly. I think they're a touch early for RTW. At best troublesome barbarian tribes to the north.

The Sarmantians- No?? Good call but I think they are a 50-100 years too early for the time period depicted in RTW.

The Iberians- Definitely. Saguntum was a major Iberian city state. Let's not forget the Celt-Iberians either At best both should be Minor factions.

The Balts- No. Help me with this one. Who were they and what was their relation to Rome?

The Turks- NO They don't come until much later.

The Thracians- Yes. Minor faction sandwiched between Macedonia and Pergamon Monarchy (Successor Kingdom).

The Dacians- Yes but not the Dacians of later fame you're thinking of. They became civilized sometime during the 1st century BC but didn't rumble with Rome until much later. At most a Minor faction.

[Heraclius]

I'm not sure but I think the Balts were a Baltic people, don't remember seeing references to them until the Middle Ages though. I too voted for the Iberians: they were a real thorn in Rome's side for many years

[JANOSIK007]

Tell me more about Iberian culture. I didn't get to hear much about them, except that they were short and had darker skin.

[deejayvee]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what are we choosing them for??

[Longshanks]

I voted for the Iberians. The Romans had plenty of scraps with them in the period the game covers. Iberians also made up a large portion of the Carthagian forces under Hannibal.

The Thracians should also be included though.

[LRossaLordJimi]

I like the Scythians because of their fine art (they are great manifacturer of gold) and their great cavalry : all steppen civilitations have a deep feeling and knowledge of horse.
Ave

[Catiline]

the scyths would provide a nice variation to hte game. Combined with some Samatian heavy cavalry and you've got a pretty menacing cavalry army.

[JANOSIK007]

Quote[/b] (deejayvee @ Feb. 25 2003,00:32)]Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what are we choosing them for??
The CA is still adding factions to RTW. Maybe we could give them some ideas. Hopefully they get to see this.

I would like to know if the devs get to see this poll and if any of the factions mentioned here, are being considered.

[Leet Eriksson]

turks??i was wondering....where do they start out?

[Sainika]

I voted for Scythians. Excellent horsemen. I hope there will be lots of them as rebels - just to be historically accurate.

[Longshanks]

Quote[/b] (faisal @ Feb. 25 2003,10:50)]turks??i was wondering....where do they start out?
The Turks would still be in central Asia somewhere during this time period. They really shouldn't be included, unless the map is massive.

[Heraclius]

Quote[/b] (JANOSIK007 @ Feb. 24 2003,22:09)]Tell me more about Iberian culture. I didn't get to hear much about them, except that they were short and had darker skin.
Did some research, Janos. Found out a little about the Iberians. The Celts migrated out of central Europe around 1000 BC and by the 6th century had invaded northern Spain. The so-called "La Tene" Celtic culture of France and Germany, characterized by geometric designs and stylized animals never spread to Celtic Spain and by the early 400's a new culture in Spain had emerged a fusion of Celtic and Iberian and so the "Celtiberian" culture, peoples and kingdoms were born. These were the guys who were such a pain in the ass to Rome for many years.
After their protectors Carthage were forced to withdraw from Spain in 206, the Celtiberian culture fell to Rome except in the northwest which was not conquered until 19 BC. However the rest of Spain was too disunited to provide real resistance against Rome and the Celtiberian oppida, fortified strongholds, were no match for Roman siege engines or bribes. Still, periodical revolts were common for many years. Hope that helps, Janos

[JANOSIK007]

Thanks Heraclius.

Did any major battles occured Between Iberians and Romans?
Gaul at least united and put up a major fight ( fielding 100k of wild Celts in one of the battles. )

[ShadesWolf]

While doing some work on a new page for Rome: total war.co.uk (http://www.rometotalwar.co.uk/nations/egyptmain.htm) I have come across the successor kingdoms, these sprang up after the fall of the Empire of Alexander. My feeling are these will play a major part in the game. These empires controlled the eastern part of the map as Rome was developing.

I have currently only looked at Ptolemaic Egypt. (which I need to mod - as the above page is only a rough draft) The other I will need to look at in turn, but the history of this period and empires is quite interesting. Generals killing heirs to the thrown, other general marrying sisters of the former emperors and then being killed before they get to there new homes and marry....... I feel there is plenty of scope in this area for the game.

However, all these empires were basically Greek city states, so they would fight using a similar style.

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

Nice looking site you got there Shade. Hope its finished soon so i can browse it fully.


By the way, I know why the game is covering such a short timespan, but were the Huns ever a major threat before Atilla who was around 600 A.D. ???

Because they are my favourite civilisation. The predecessors to the Mongols, and they proved they were good enough to defeat Rome. (although Rome was crumbling at the time)

[Heraclius]

Quote[/b] (JANOSIK007 @ Feb. 25 2003,22:52)]Did any major battles occured Between Iberians and Romans?
Gaul at least united and put up a major fight ( fielding 100k of wild Celts in one of the battles. )
I think the battle where Rome broke the power of the Celtiberian kingdoms forever was at the 20 year siege of Numantia which ended 133 BC. Although, like I said in a previous post, the Celts of Brigantium in northwest Spain held out until 19 BC.

[Longshanks]

Quote[/b] (Heraclius @ Feb. 25 2003,21:03)]
Quote[/b] (JANOSIK007 @ Feb. 24 2003,22:09)]Tell me more about Iberian culture. I didn't get to hear much about them, except that they were short and had darker skin.
Did some research, Janos. Found out a little about the Iberians. The Celts migrated out of central Europe around 1000 BC and by the 6th century had invaded northern Spain. The so-called "La Tene" Celtic culture of France and Germany, characterized by geometric designs and stylized animals never spread to Celtic Spain and by the early 400's a new culture in Spain had emerged a fusion of Celtic and Iberian and so the "Celtiberian" culture, peoples and kingdoms were born. These were the guys who were such a pain in the ass to Rome for many years.
After their protectors Carthage were forced to withdraw from Spain in 206, the Celtiberian culture fell to Rome except in the northwest which was not conquered until 19 BC. However the rest of Spain was too disunited to provide real resistance against Rome and the Celtiberian oppida, fortified strongholds, were no match for Roman siege engines or bribes. Still, periodical revolts were common for many years. Hope that helps, Janos
The Celt-Iberians were actually a seperate people from the Iberians. Celt-Iberians were a fusion of the native Iberians and Celtic invaders/immigrants from a few centuries before. They spoke Celtic languages, and had cultural traditions from both ethnic groups. Like the Iberians, they were slightly more settled and civilized than their Gallic cousins. The Celt-Iberians mostly lived in what is today Northeast Spain, and were divided into many factions, the biggest being the Arevaci, Belli, Titti, and Lusones.

Their fighting style was also a hybrid of Celt and Iberian. The bulk of the Celt-Iberians armies were Scutari. They wore Iberian tunics,leather or mail armor, Celtic style helms and the Celtic scutum.(shield)Swords similar to those used by the Gauls were used, as well as fine short swords called the gladius hispanicus.(the Romans admired these short swords so much they adopted them for their own infantry)


The Iberians were the original inhabitants of Spain. There were many factions, but the major ones were the Lusitani, the Vaccaci, the Oretani and the Turdetani. Sadly not much is really known about them, but they are believed to have been a people who pre-dated the Indo-European migrations in Western Europe. They were generally short and dark-haired unlike the Celts, and slighly more settled and civilzed than the Celts.(though still barbaric compared to Greeks, Phoenicians or Romans)The Iberians spoke languages which were not Celtic, and not related to the Indo-European languages. The modern day Basques believe they are the direct descendants of the Iberians, and some of the words in the Basque language are Iberian...but there is much debate on whether the Basques are the descendants of the Iberians. They were mostly farmers and town dwellers, while the Celt-Iberians were slightly more rural and had a greater dependance on herding.

The Iberian armies were largely composed of Caetrati. They wore Iberian tunics, leather or mail armor, and small bucklers called a caetra. Many used basic infantry spears, although they also used a specialized Iberian spear called a soliferrum, which was completely made of iron with a barbed head. The spear was heavy, but its weight gave it an increased ability to punch through shields and armor. Some also used a curved slashing sword called the falcata.

The Iberians also had excellent slingers, especially those from the Balearic Islands. The Macedonians, Carthagians and Romans all used balearic slingers at one time or another.

The cavalry for both the Iberians and Celt-Iberians was basically identical, and very good. For the most part they used the same equipment as the infantry. After Carthage conquered part of Hispania, they relied heavily on Iberian and Celt-Iberian cavalry. They had large numbers of Iberians and Celt-Iberians infantry in their armies as well.

Both groups, but especially the Iberians were good guerilla fighters, employing hit and run tactics against their more civilized enemies with some success.

Here is a basic map to give you an idea of the breakdown of where the various groups were situated in Hispania:

http://www.barca.fsnet.co.uk/Graphics/spain1.gif


Note that this map only lists the Celt-Iberians as one faction, even though there were many. Also, there were more Iberian factions than just the ones shown.


EDIT: The tribal factions listed north of the Ebro river on the map are neither Iberians or Celt-Iberians. They are Aquitani. Like the Iberians they were of pre-Celtic stock. They lived in what northeast Iberia and Southwestern Gaul.

[Heraclius]

who exactly were Sarmantians? I' never heard of them Any know somethin about them?

[Longshanks]

Quote[/b] (Heraclius @ Feb. 26 2003,15:24)]I think the battle where Rome broke the power of the Celtiberian kingdoms forever was at the 20 year siege of Numantia which ended 133 BC.
Yep, although it was the Lusitani(Iberians) who fought at Numantia. Those wars between the tribes in Spain and Rome are often called the Celtiberian Wars, but its a bit of a misnomer. Much of what is today Spain was fighting against the Romans, both Iberian and Celt-Iberian.

[Heraclius]

Thank you for the helpful corrections Longshanks. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I guess I will have to look for a new classical history book

[Heraclius]

I was completely wrong about the Balts. Sorry. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I was right, however, that they were a Baltic people who survived by farming, independent of the Slavs and Germans that surrounded them. The first known reference to them is in 1800 BC. Sorry again for the misinformation.

[JANOSIK007]

Have any of you guys heard of Danubian Slavs?
I have just came across this interesting fact.
Apparently there were some Slavs living aroynd Danube before Germans and Celts.

Check it out
http://www.panslavia.com/history/index.html
This is a new info to me.

[Heraclius]

JANOS, JANOS, JANOS, tsk, tsk, tsk. I don't mean to be patronizing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif but you must take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt (meaning don't trust everything you see). Notice the website panslavia.com. The pan-slavic movement seeked and still does to unite all slavs into one nation. Among other things these guys assassinated Franz Ferdinand and so arguably brought on world war one. They wish to make the case for Slavic unity using political, economic and historical arguments. I mean seriously read the article. Oh, yes, they claim, the brave slavic people of the Danube were savaged by "primitive German and Hungarian nomadic hunters". This is bad enough but the claim to have invented writing and "known it for thousands of years before the Sumerians" and brought it to them is downright ridiculous. I hope this is meant as a joke, right, JANOS? You know something we can all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif about? Right?