View Full Version : The Invulnerable Barque
Niccolomachiavelli
11-13-2002, 23:44
I'm in the english channel. The germans produce their lowest level ship, a barque. Has an attack of 1 and a defence of 2. I attack with a Cog. Attack 3, defence 3, I believe its a 2 star also. It loses, every time. I was so shocked I lost that I reloaded and tried it again. 15 reloads and I lost the battle every time, both attacking and not attacking. Ok, I says, and I bring in my first newly built Carrack, the most powerful ship available to Spain. Attack 6, defence 3. It also lost every single battle. Oh, and I believe it managed to be built with 2 stars also, compared to their no star barque. Any ideas? I have the save game if someone is willing to host it and check it out for themselves.
solypsist
11-13-2002, 23:49
Hmmmm...I dunno. You sure that Barque has no stars? Maybe try something else: retreat from the ocean province, then re-attack next turn.
Niccolomachiavelli
11-14-2002, 00:27
Positive it didnt have stars. It was freshly built and I checked its stats. And I tried what you suggested also, I retreated from the area and re-attacked, got nothing. Also simply retreated, but he followed and destroyed my carrack. Its getting a little silly.
Cooperman
11-14-2002, 00:44
Seems kind of strange if it has no stars, try attacking with a fleet of 3 or 4 ships eventually you'll kill it
Hosakawa Tito
11-14-2002, 01:02
Sounds like a budding Horatio Nelson. I'd attack him with multiple 1 and 2 ship fleets. I've never seen that before in any of my games.
Niccolomachiavelli
11-14-2002, 01:04
Tried with a fleet of 2 ships also and still didnt kill him. I suppose I'll eventually load up the game and try to kill him with a fleet of 5 or more. And again, if anyone wants the save game, I'd be more than happy to give it.
you could zip it up and send to barocca_x@hotmail.com
:D
Niccolomachiavelli
11-14-2002, 06:01
Well, apparently its not quite invulnerable. I ganged up on it with about 5 ships with attack values of 3. It died quite nicely at that point. If you still want the save game I'm willing to send it.
KukriKhan
11-14-2002, 06:11
Cool...a uber-ship. My Vikings might be interested as well. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
jim@jimcee.com
Gregoshi
11-14-2002, 06:44
Sink the Bis-barque http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Hosakawa Tito
11-14-2002, 06:48
ROTFLMAO Gregoshi good one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
KukriKhan
11-14-2002, 07:04
Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Nov. 13 2002,23:44)]Sink the Bis-barque http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Hey...that's what the wifey said Monday (Veteran's Day here, final Bar-B-Que of the season), as I ladled hastily- prepared gravy over her burnt offering.
Maybe I should just stick to pasta. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Quote[/b] (barocca @ Nov. 13 2002,20:18)]you could zip it up and send to barocca_x@hotmail.com
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Gregoshi
11-14-2002, 15:10
Hint, hint. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Niccolomachiavelli
11-14-2002, 23:15
Turns out the naval battles are a bigger problem than I suspected. Almost every time the battle is all but guaranteed for me to win (meaning I have triple the enemy stats and at least 3 stars, against their no star lowest level ship) I lost the battle. I reload and try it every way. It completely defies the stats. I dont know what to do. I'm loath to uninstall and reinstall, but my theory is that this is a result of applying the patch without doing a fresh install.
Cooperman
11-14-2002, 23:50
perhaps you want to try using barques with no star generals yourself then
Hosakawa Tito
11-15-2002, 00:23
Are you playing a pre-patch save game with the new patch installed? I'm not sure, but that may have something to do with it.
Niccolomachiavelli
11-15-2002, 03:16
Nope, I started the game after the patch. My encounters show that the stats must just be boosted for some reason.
a fresh install may be whats needed,
i recieved your save file, and i will admit it took me three turns of attacks to kill the HRE barque,
maybe the speed of the barque has something to with it?
the barque is very fast, and i use them almost exclusively throughout the campaign, cheap, fast, and by the time i get to the end game i have so many that nothing can stop me
(MwaaHaawHaaw - laugh in evil scientist accent)
PFJ_bejazuz
11-16-2002, 15:07
Where abouts are the saved games located?
Doge Vitale
11-17-2002, 14:20
Atack with a fleet of ships.
KukriKhan
11-17-2002, 14:30
Hi Doge Vitale, thanks for posting & welcome to the Org
General Mayhem did you find your saved games folder?
PFJ_bejazuz
11-17-2002, 15:55
Yup
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
This thread sounds like what the German would like to be in WW-I when they sent out their only fleet to challenge the mighty English fleets. They actually manage pretty good in that battle, but eventually lose out (English had too many ships).
Germany fielding ships in the North Sea is a rare sight, indeed. But who would believe Egyptians master of the seas in 1250?
Annie
Hippolyte
11-19-2002, 07:31
Stacks seem to be the solution to your maritime woes (on expert anyhow).
Also, we should keep in mind another ancient world north African superpower that had virtual hegemony in the Mediteranean: the Carthaginians. Not so very removed from the Egyptians I think?
I am not sure Carthageans' navy was better than Romans navy because the reason why they tried to invade Rome was to retaliate against Rome growing maritime power. If not so, then why they had to cross the Alp to invade Rome? Perhaps not because they want to try out their elephant units.
I am digressing here and I am not expert in History. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
My Egyptian refering above was because my strategy as Egyptian seems to work quite well:
1. build ships as often as possible, churning out at least 1 boat per 3 years. At certain time, Egypt produces 1 boat every year, from 3 different city.
2. challenge the two Med's potential maritime powers: Byzantium and Italy early in the game while leaving the Turks and Almohads alone.
Not before long, I have ships in every seas and major trade cities brought in 1500 bucks a year (Egypt ran a budget of about 10000 florins a year).
My problem was to not able to kill the lone Byzantium boat that keeps on running away. But it was a lost cause for them, and it the end, I caught it.
Annie
Hippolyte
11-19-2002, 17:03
Athough I too believe in the importance of a sound navy (in order to secure trade routes), I would always give primacy of resources to land forces.
I suppose you have a valid point when you question the historical accuracy (a very slippery concept itself!http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif of a Mamluk led navy that dominated the high Medieval world. Certainly we can take advantage of Egypt's fortuitous location in order to dominate the Mediteranean in a game which provides Egypt with a similar economic and technical footing as Byzantium and Italy during this period. Of course such Egyptian naval primacy is purely fantasy. It would be the Turks (yes, the Turks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif )who would successfully challenge Italian naval control not only in the Meditteranean but in the heart of the Adriatic. Regardless, your strategy is obviously effective but personally I feel it minimizes both the potential of the game to provide you with those glorious land battles as well and more importantly exaggerating the importance of naval supremacy for a landlocked power such as the Egyptians. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
Hannibal knew well enough the limits of naval power for Carthage and how (with Rome's ascendency) Carthaginian settlements (scattered across the Meditteranean world) were extremely vulnerable if her navy did not have complete and constant mastery of the Med. This is the reason for his masterful overland trek. Unfortunately he was unable to extirpate Rome (unlike Rome's final devastating stroke)--though he came very close. Thus, emphasizing naval power was of prime importance for island factions but was typically misplaced and suicidal for continental factions. Evenso, as you've shown, in mtw one enemy ship can illustrate the limits of a seafaring strategy and how exposed it can be.
Spetulhu
11-20-2002, 00:17
Those Sicilians are the worst, really. They sit on their rotten little island and sink ships all the time. I would like to get the option to run away (sail away?) instead of bravely engaging all enemy ships that attack.
i have had many A.I. ships runaway. slimy bastards
to the point:it seems to me that reguardless of the ships you have in the zone, a new weak enemy ship will win in a fight with your ships. perhaps it is an element of suprise, or just mabey the fact that your are the dominant sea power and the comp allows this to atleast try to give you a hard time.
HopAlongBunny
11-20-2002, 03:51
I found that the naval system does not really follow what the stats might lead you to think. Now all I build are the lowest value ships I can; greatest success (for me) is multiple atttacks from single ships...occaisionally a stack if the leader is 3star, but always combined with other single attacks on the same target. Quantity not quality wins every time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
The only reason I can see to build something other than your lowest fleet is speed. Some of the later ships don't crawl at one sea per turn.
Hippolyte
11-20-2002, 08:26
I prefer vessels with good defense. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
king steven
11-07-2003, 13:31
build your docks/ports all the way
all hail King Steven
Wasn't the barque by any chance the only or last ship of the German. I often encounter the same kind of problem with the last ship of a faction. I attack it every turn and it either escapes unharmed or sink my boat/fleet. Only way to get rid of it seems to wipe out the entire faction or wait until that faction produces a second ship .... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
The_Emperor
11-08-2003, 01:58
Whats with this re-opening of old threads here in the EH? First my old Poll about people's preferred MTW Religion and now this...
Whats next? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Gregoshi
11-11-2003, 05:27
Me thinks king steven is cruising the archives looking for some of the interesting topics from yesteryear.
king steven
11-11-2003, 16:54
[QUOTE]Me thinks king steven is cruising the archives looking for some of the interesting topics from yesteryear.
what makes you think that
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