strategy to acquire a huge ransom consistently

[jajknight]

this has probably already been posted but thought I would share for people that haven't noticed it. I'm playing Germany and after wiping out the Pope I noticed that he keeps coming back every few years. This is a golden opportunity to earn some easy money After destroying the Pope for the first time keep a SMALL garrison in the Papal States and a neighbor like Tuscony, making sure to surround these provinces with huge armies. The AI will re-instate the Pope to the two weaker provinces. Allow the Pope to take over the neighbor to the Papal States and invade the Papal States with a huge army. Once you win that battle you will capture the Pope and since he has the other province to flee too he will be ransomed back for 20,000+ florin each and every time Then attack the other province to finish off the Pope and wait a few years to repeat the process http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
This can also be done with other factions like Hungary but not as consistently as the good old Pope who keeps coming back for more of the same http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[Naagi]

Well i did once get 12k for the Byzantine king. Though the next year i whacked his heir who had taken over and only got around 2k. I think they have to rebuild up their income, whereas the pope gets funded by all the Catholic factions. But very interesting idea to try, as im having a lag in trade now that France, England, and Spain have all decided to send crusades my way as the Byzantines.

Naagi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[rasoforos]

there is a problem in doing that , and especially with the pope that makes this strategy potentially unaffordable , or reduces its profits. To make sure you can beat the pope , who usually appears with a lot of armies , you need as you said , large armies in the surrounding provincies , lets suppose this is 3 'armies' with average unit price of 300 , 48x300= 14.400 florins. Now consider the costs of maintaining this army and the cost of building new units to cover the loses from fights with the pope and other random attacks , i ll assume the cost of 50 per army per year 48x50= 2400 per year. if we assume the pope appears every 7 years and u lose 1000 florins worth of armies in the fight the cost will be 7x2400= 16800 + 1000 = 17800 . so the project will return in optimal conditions 2200 evey 7 years which is about 300 florins per year , i somehow believe this ammount doesnt worth the effort.

( the above model makes an assumption for the return of pope every 7 years, if anyone knows how often he will return please correct me since this might change the above)

[jajknight]

If you have an experienced army then defeating the Pope is actually quite easy and doesn't come anywhere near the cost model you describe. I've found that later in the game you reach a point where each turn you stay relatively the same in cash so the extra 20k every few years really helps. It saved me from bankruptcy more than a few times. By the way nice analysis - you should be an accountant for sure http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[rasoforos]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif , well i am an economist actually so thats pretty close , hence i have a tendency to analyse everything and then persuade people i am correct and real evidence is wrong http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .
however as you saw my battle cost of 1000 florins is insignificant since the loss comes from the maintanance cost of the armies needed for this project. Jajknight do you remember how many units did you actually use for this strategy and their yearly maintainance cost in approximation? and after the pope is defeated how many years does it take him to return on average? This way we can see the profits of this plan.

(there are also some othe 'costs' , the cost of not using all these units to attack and occupy rich provinces ( like the ones that make 3-4k per turn) ....and the cost of going straight to hell if you are a catholic http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[LadyAnn]

Hey stop terrorizing the Holy Pontif, you band of pirates. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Annie

[rasoforos]

vae victis http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif if the pope cannot handle it he should stop playing MTW

[jajknight]

I think you can tilt the cost structure to greatly favor you by using a 7 or 8 star general when attacking the pope. With the experienced general you need less troops...say around 6 or 700. He usually shows up with a big army (I found it to be around every 3-6 years but not consistently the same). His troops are no match for your experience. The same stack can handle the Pope for many a return with only minor reinforcment. hmm if you're really into numbers maybe you could do a paper on this strategy...and make sure to calculate the cost saving for each star the general has and each unit mix hehe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[rasoforos]

well with a bit of utility theory it could be made into a project :P i somehow dun think i could get good marks for it though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . i think i ll try this strategy tomorrow and see how well it works for me and post the results. By the way which nation do you find most effective for this strategy?

[RunAway!!]

I don't know about keeping the pope alive...but for me, slaughtering him every time he pops up has been pretty easy. I'm playing as the Italians, and having my lovely little peninsula split by the old guy annoyed me, so he had to die. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif For me, he seems to come back every 20-25 years now, usually with a huge amount of royal and feudal knights (3-4 army stacks worth). They're usually pretty easy to beat off, you just need to keep 2 large armies in the Papal states and Naples, and a small army in Rome. If you've got large armies in the first two territories, most of the time the Pope will appear with his horde only in Rome; although sometimes a stack will appear in one of the other two. I guess if you wanted to make sure the stack appeared, you would not keep a large garrison in one of the other two; probably the papal states since it can't build merchants, so you won't lose much in trade. Anyways, when he pops up, just boat in your main army, and watch his pitiful knights get slaughtered. The bad part about letting him live though is that you will get excommed, and have all the penalties that apply to that.

[jajknight]

It is true you get excommunicated but the penalties aren't that bad in my experience (provided you do this later in the game when you're stronger) and there aren't any if you're not a catholic faction right. Anyway I did some more experimenting and found out that he will appear more often if most of Italy is weak...not just the two provinces. A good idea would be to leave Italy with minimal troops and have your armies within reach of Italy via the seaports. Then move them in when he appears. There is some trigger in the game that says if italy is weak, send in the pope. Also he favors appearing in Rome with most of his troops as mentioned with his secondary army going to the papal states if it is weak enough. The key is that provided he has an escape route, you will get the ransom money 19-21k everytime.

[Vlad The Impaler]

i usually capture the Byzantine emperor and the mongol khan when i play with my favourites : the turks;
once i have about 35 K florins for the khan
byz emperor is a little cheap http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
just 10 K florins

[Musashi]

Heh, I got 86k in ransom when I defeated the Horde and captured the Khan.

This strategy actually works beautifully for me because I always have a full scale army in a coastal province for rapid response purposes anyway, so I'm not paying extra for a papal defense army, I just send my rapid response force to handle him.

-Musashi

[SmokWawelski]

Quote[/b] ]This strategy actually works beautifully for me because I always have a full scale army in a coastal province for rapid response purposes anyway

Well, look for clear seas, cause your RR army might not always get in there in time... I prefer playing the usual way, and not use ransom money (They call me a butcher, cause I kill left and right, yeah yeah... The Who melody)
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[FoundationII]

I totally agree with wat rasoforos said: This whole strategy isn't worth doing, you should campaign through the enemy lands and abandon them again, if I do it it gives me about 1500 florins for every province, my army upkeep is 1000 florins so I win each year about 500 florins (it's a little less because sometimes there are casualities and I'm sometimes forced to fight a battle) Let's say about 200 florins profit each year, the cost of building a spare army already deducted. 200*7=1400 1400>500 So in seven years I get more profits, my position is stronger, and the most important thing of all: my enemies are weakening because I destroy so many buildings. The only rules to use this strategy are:
-Move through the enemy lands (preferably rich lands)
-Avoid the enemy troops
-Move every year so the enemy can't catch up with you
-Don't besiege fortified cities or stay in a province more than 1 year

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]....and the cost of going straight to hell if you are a catholic.
LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif



Quote[/b] ]Hey stop terrorizing the Holy Pontif, you band of pirates.
ROTFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif


Hey, FoundationII... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

...you do know that the last answer was DECEMBER 2002, right? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[FoundationII]

I always forget to look at the date of the topic.

[Gregoshi]

That is okay, there is a lot of good and interesting stuff from the past. It doesn't hurt to resurrect on old topic as some of them have been revived successfully. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[MrWhipple]

Right Gregoshi, esp for us old-timmers who are somewhat new to the forum http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

P.S. This topic is somewhat religious already, so, don't you belive in resurection. I am sure that the Pope does http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif