The typical MP army composition

[Kongamato]

I am practicing in Custom Battle in an attempt to gain some skills I can transfer to MP. Unfortunately, I do not feel very confident in the units I choose for my AI practice opponent. Therefore, I want to start a "Your favorite army" thread to get some examples of a good army. No florin limits are necessary. Just tell me the units and their upgrades please.

[AMPage]

Well to start skills and armies are two different things. The both of them together make the player you are. Anyone can field a strong army, but you must learn to move units properly and effectively. This requires knowing key commands, units, moral, and knowing what's going on at all times.

Here are some of my armies
1. Unbalanced Spanish army 10-20k high era
6 lancers valor 0-2
5 chivalric knights valor 0-2
5 knights of santiago valor 0-2

2. Unbalanced Byzantine army 10-20k high era
8 byzantine infantry valor 2-4
4 spearmen valor 2-3
4 pronoiai allagion valor 0-2

3. Unbalanced Spanish army 10-20k high era
4 lancers valor 0-2
4 chivalric men-at-arms valor 2-3
4 feudal men-at-arms valor 2-4
4 chivalric knights valor 0-2

4. Balanced German army 10-20k late era
2 gothic knights valor 0-2
2 teutonic knights valor 0-2
4 pasive arbalesters valor 2-4
2 gothic foot knights valor 2-4
2 gothic sergeants valor 2-4
4 chivalric men-at-arms valor 2-4

5. Balanced Italian army 10-20k high era
2 knights of hosptialler valor 0-2
2 chivalric knights valor 0-2
4 italian infantry valor 1-3
4 pasive arblesters valor 2-4
2 chivalric foot knights valor 0-2
2 chivalric men-at-arms valor 2-4

6. Balanced English army 10-20k early era
4 knights of templar valor 0-2
2 feudal knights valor 1-3
4 archers valor 0-4
4 feudal men-at-arms valor 2-4
2 order foot soldiers valor 0-2

I have many armies balanced and unbalanced. It also depends on the map and who i'm playing against. I never do weapon or armor upgrades, only valor, since it increases attack,defense, and moral.

So, good luck and try not to get addicted to 99,999 florin games...


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Dionysus9]

Good post by amp there--his armies are renouned for their power (mostly because he is at the helm).

I'm pretty skeptical that you can get any real practice for MP by playing the AI. The AI doesn't play right/well compared to a skilled human opponent.

My balanced byz army (15k):
4 v4 byz inf
4 v4 spears
4 v2 alan cavs (v3 if you can afford it)
4 arbalesters with the remaining funds.

The AI wont use any of these armies to the fullest advantage. When I play custom battles against the AI I've found I need to give the AI at least a +33% increase in florins to make up for its bad tactics. +50% increase is probably more realistic if you want practice beating players like Amp. (so if you are at 10k, ai should be at 15k).

[bosdur]

*Grabbing paper & pen and start taking notes*

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Mind telling us how u deploy 'em too AMP http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Kongamato]

You have my gratitude, AMP+Dion. I needed to know the units that work best together, as I did not want to spend the time testing all of the units myself; there were too many combinations. I figure that I will learn the keyboard combos eventually.

Now all we need is a bigger replay database http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[PFJ_bejazuz]

cool lists

I've shyed away from a few nationalities from not knowing what mix to pick

cheers

[tootee]

Thats the attitude I like Konga. As Bacchus had said, you wouldnt gain much of an edge practising vs AI over a real-life opponent. Use the custom mode to practise your control and manoeuvre. The best advice is - play more online.

[FoundationII]

My favourite army is:


Faction: Swiss
Era: Late
Florins: Anything between 10000 and 30000
Composition:

1 unit of Alan Mercenary Cavalry (valour doesn't matter)
4 units of Chivalric Men-at-Arms (valour 4)
4 units of Swiss Halberdiers (valour 2 or 3)
3 units of Swiss Armoured Pikemen (valour 1 or 2)
1 unit of Pavise Arbalesters (valour preferable above 3)
3 units of Serpentines (valour doesn't matter)

If you're using this tactic just frighten the enemy troops with your art and keep your general out of the way of the enemy the light cavalry, later in the battle when both sides suffered high casualties you can get him in their rear.

[Cheetah]

Quote[/b] (AMPage @ Nov. 25 2002,16:54)]Well to start skills and armies are two different things. The both of them together make the player you are. Anyone can field a strong army, but you must learn to move units properly and effectively. This requires knowing key commands, units, moral, and knowing what's going on at all times.

Here are some of my armies
1. Unbalanced Spanish army 10-20k high era
6 lancers valor 0-2
5 chivalric knights valor 0-2
5 knights of santiago valor 0-2

unbalanced =cav rush http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Quote[/b] (AMPage @ Nov. 25 2002,16:54)]
2. Unbalanced Byzantine army 10-20k high era
8 byzantine infantry valor 2-4
4 spearmen valor 2-3
4 pronoiai allagion valor 0-2

inf rush http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif but why 8 byz inf and not 4 byz inf and 4 VG?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif


Quote[/b] (AMPage @ Nov. 25 2002,16:54)]
3. Unbalanced Spanish army 10-20k high era
4 lancers valor 0-2
4 chivalric men-at-arms valor 2-3
4 feudal men-at-arms valor 2-4
4 chivalric knights valor 0-2

sword+cav rush http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Quote[/b] (AMPage @ Nov. 25 2002,16:54)]
4. Balanced German army 10-20k late era
2 gothic knights valor 0-2
2 teutonic knights valor 0-2
4 pasive arbalesters valor 2-4
2 gothic foot knights valor 2-4
2 gothic sergeants valor 2-4
4 chivalric men-at-arms valor 2-4

5. Balanced Italian army 10-20k high era
2 knights of hosptialler valor 0-2
2 chivalric knights valor 0-2
4 italian infantry valor 1-3
4 pasive arblesters valor 2-4
2 chivalric foot knights valor 0-2
2 chivalric men-at-arms valor 2-4

6. Balanced English army 10-20k early era
4 knights of templar valor 0-2
2 feudal knights valor 1-3
4 archers valor 0-4
4 feudal men-at-arms valor 2-4
2 order foot soldiers valor 0-2



What is this? A balanced army??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Hey AMP, when was the last time you have used a balanced army? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Cheetah]

Quote[/b] (FoundationII @ Nov. 27 2003,10:13)]

My favourite army is:


Faction: Swiss
Era: Late
Florins: Anything between 10000 and 30000
Composition:

1 unit of Alan Mercenary Cavalry (valour doesn't matter)
4 units of Chivalric Men-at-Arms (valour 4)
4 units of Swiss Halberdiers (valour 2 or 3)
3 units of Swiss Armoured Pikemen (valour 1 or 2)
1 unit of Pavise Arbalesters (valour preferable above 3)
3 units of Serpentines (valour doesn't matter)

If you're using this tactic just frighten the enemy troops with your art and keep your general out of the way of the enemy the light cavalry, later in the battle when both sides suffered high casualties you can get him in their rear.

Hm, this seems to be a very, very defensive http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif inf heavy army. I would like to see your attacking army as well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Cheetah]

Well, to contribute something to this thread http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif here is an average (very common) high era army for 10k-15k, though I am sure that Konga has much better armies.

6 cavs (chiv.knights, feud.knights, or mounted srg.)
6 sword/axe (fmaa, cmaa or mil.serg)
4 shooter (pav.x/bows or longbows)

This can be spiced up by using some cav.archers instead of the knights, for example picking szekely with the Hungarians (fairly common setup).

One way to vary this setup is to take even more cavs, for example 4 cav.archers and 4 knights and take only 4 swords.

Other possible variation is to take 4 longbows and no x-bows and play aggressively.

Of course, one can always go even more sword heavy, taking 8 sword/axe (very common) but this is kinda boring http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Of course, this all assumes temperate or arid climate, winter and desert armies are much different.

[FoundationII]

Can you say what the differences should be between a defencive and offensive army cheetah?
I use both and they work fine.

[ichi]

Early Hungarian

3 FFK (one is gen) V2
4 CMAA V3
2 archer V1A1
4 Feudal Knights V2
2 Szekely V2
1 FMAA or Mil Sarg V4

High Byzantine

1 Kataphaktoi V2
3 Pav Xbows V0A3
4 Pronoiai Allagion V2
3 Byz Inf V4
4 Varangian Guard V2
1 Byz Cav V2

Late Spanish

1 Knight of Santiago V2
4 Lancers V1
3 Pav Arbs V0A3
2 Order Foot Soldiers V3/4
2 FMAA V4
4 CMAA V3
(maybe switch out a MAA for a V3 Jinete)

Other ideas: Late/Turks w/4 JHI, 4 Ottoman, 4 Armenian Heavy Cav, Turcoman Horse Archer, somme Futawwas or Turcoman Foot

Egyptian, w 3 Nizaris, 4 Abbysinian Guard, 4 Ghazi Inf, some Ghulam Cav, and Faris

ichi

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

I'd recommand playing 5k / army expert in 4v4 custom games (expert 5k = you really have a disadvantage).... The AI has definitly no idea of what team game means, and you get doubled like there is no tomorrow (and don't expect your AI allies to help). Definitly... challenging

And fun

Skill wise... you learn to avoid double situation with helpless allies, and to try to resist being doubled at low florin/ morale. I don't know if it is of ANY use for MP... Unless your allies behave like the AI or you want to be outnumbered on purpose (which IMO is quite interesting... can you stand a 2v1?).

I got to say that if one can handle the masssive move of 4v4 custom game with AI going all over the place, then MP moves seems... very cautious. And slow. From an 'information management' and strategy standpoint, it's interesting.

Army wise; avoid Ichi turk army http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. AI can't handle hybrid well. AI also has trouble with missile. So, for training efficiency, in 1v1, I'd go with AMP 'missile are worthless' armies and pray that the AI understand it got to rush with it.

Louis,

[Kongamato]

Dont worry about my army compositions, I've had 367 days since I posted this thread to make good armies. I think I'm doing O.K.

[Brutal DLX]

Lol. I wonder why nobody ever looks at the posting date. There are a lot of one year old topics being bumped lately.

[Nikodil]

(a good thread is a always good thread, and we don't want those precious electrons go to waste.)

The AI is not a good test for your MP armies. When practising against the AI, I usually dont pick a full 16 unit army, but rather 5 to 8 units. And go for training micromanegment of some special tactic, like infantry flanking. Either on hard/expert or against a larger and/or different army.

[Efrem Da King]

do scissilians get any special units???

[Ashen]

Quote[/b] ]6. Balanced English army 10-20k early era
4 knights of templar valor 0-2
2 feudal knights valor 1-3
4 archers valor 0-4
4 feudal men-at-arms valor 2-4
2 order foot soldiers valor 0-2


Seems to be a very popular army breakdown online.

Try this -

High Russians. 8 Boyars, 4 Druzhina, 4 Steppe. When you win a game, come back to me, i've managed it online but twice, but hell, if you can win with that you know that you can control your cavalry lol.

[Paolai]

Ashen.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif Druzhina are not avaliable in high era....

[Tempiic]

Quote[/b] (Efrem Da King @ Dec. 29 2003,14:10)]do scissilians get any special units???
Umm I believe they get Templars, Order Foot and Almughavars