View Full Version : Most common way of losing
Kongamato
01-20-2003, 23:05
"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes... I prefer to learn from the mistakes of others, and avoid the cost of my own." - Otto von Bismarck
Well, there's my reason for this poll. Through the results of this, we can possibly identify a major problem in MP, or simply find some more ways to win. I will further define the poll choices above to conclude this. Many losses on a team-based scale result in a double team; Please identify and vote for the _cause_ of this double team.
Bringing Inferior Forces
You brought 12 Longbows.
Getting Double-Teamed
Your allies are all healthy, and you still are facing two armies at once.
Facing a general of greater skill
You got beat fair and square.
Disadvantage in terrain
Your enemy either camped or used the terrain against you in some other way.
Ally bringing inferior forces
Your teammate brought 12 Longbows.
Ally getting double-teamed
You and the enemy army are both at equal strength. The enemy destroys your ally with superior numbers, drastically reducing your team's chances at winning.
Ally facing general of greater skill
Your ally got beat fair and square, and your team is now outnumbered.
Ally having disadvantage in terrain
Your ally got stuck in a hole.
Technical Difficulties
You got lethal lag or crashed.
Other
An equal combination of the above or something unlisted.
The most significant screen in MP is the unit selection screen. It's entirely possible that no matter how good you are you can get beaten if you lead an inherently weaker army compared with your opponent. The only way to avoid losing under this condition is to be able to use your weaker army better than the enemy uses his stronger army, even chances are that you can lose. Many vets have demonstrated this successfully.
Most of my losses stemed from not being able to field my mismatched (vis a vis enemy) army correctly.
Krasturak
01-21-2003, 04:37
Gah
All of Krast's defeat result from the greater skill of the opponent.
Although much could be said about the details, you might notice that Krast only plays in team games, never 1v1.
Gah
ElmarkOFear
01-21-2003, 06:19
You left out a category . . ."PLaying with UglyElmo" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif That's the surest way to lose
One will lose if he doesn't know the way to win.
Where's the option "Let your opponent win"? That's certainly the only reason I lose http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Nobunaga0611
01-21-2003, 07:40
Theres a bunch of reasons, so I dunno if I could even narrow it down to one. All of the ally ones except all terrian one (because terrain doesn't play that big of a part). And also, bringing inferior forces (in other words, experimenting).
Major Robert Dump
01-21-2003, 10:37
Picking nose and playing at same time should have been a choice.
Krasturak
01-21-2003, 12:47
Gah Dump Gah
Krast wonders why you persist in mis-spelling the Name of the Glorious Agun-Gah???
Make Krast's head spin.
Is 'head spinning' a poll option in this one?
ok well, i think its a mixture of facing a greater army and bringing inferior foces because it is easy to bring an army that might not fair too well against a certain other arny due to the diversity of the units in mtw, but more importantly it depends who is controlling the other army http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
LittleGrizzly
01-21-2003, 18:47
usually its versus the all cav army for me wheres that option ?????
Major Robert Dump
01-21-2003, 19:42
Hmmmm Krast, I didn't notice before that the name of the god of Mud was so close to containing "gah." I will do some research on the history of my god and see if perhaps there was a faction split or a breakaway church which altered the spelling.
When my army doesn't end up in a mess and/or I don't get confused, then it is the time for me to worry, for mostly I'll lose then.
Ah.. Mr.Krast, we have that one think in common. Never played a 1x1 on MTW yet. I made it a pledge to myself.
Annie
tempiic: perhaps your strength is in the intentionally chaotic situations then.
i dont know why i lose... i just do...
i guess there needs to be an option "My men a bloody cowards"
Hmmm ann... might explain a few things...
Like why i do much better facing off 2 opponents compared to having to attack a single one...
tempiic:
Could you or Foxy drop me an email (she has mine and I am always cautious of publishing my email address on public forum, I have only 1 and don't want to lose it). And don't want to spill so much personal stuffs on the board...
As for being online... I would have to tough it out another week...
Annie
Yeah I would... if i had your email :P
Problem is that I haven't seen foxy for some time.
So I've been playing mainly on my own http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
I lose coz the nice work of the opponent general.
Even i lose also coz the bad work of the oppenent http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Orda Khan
01-31-2003, 18:35
Quote[/b] (SeljukSinan @ Jan. 20 2003,20:26)]The most significant screen in MP is the unit selection screen. It's entirely possible that no matter how good you are you can get beaten if you lead an inherently weaker army compared with your opponent. The only way to avoid losing under this condition is to be able to use your weaker army better than the enemy uses his stronger army, even chances are that you can lose. Many vets have demonstrated this successfully.
Very true Sinan very true.
.....Orda
7Bear7Polar
02-04-2003, 22:18
well inferior forces can do u n also but normally getting doubled is the easiest way IMO. But for me its when i try using new armies/units/factions which i normally do in teambattles http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
ps: it should be looking at uglyelmo http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
i will always remember my first MP game (sorry i cant remember the names of those who pertisipated in the game with me it was a while ago)
Ally: Ok now i want you to attack from the left, make sure you take out their cannons
Monk627: Ok, where will you be?
Ally: ill be back in about 15 min...
Monk627: what?? your leaving?
Ally: yeah but ill be back.
Monk627:....
ok so with HRE gothic foot Knights and a few units of cav with a mix of archers and cannons. i attacked the enemy forces, with no support from My english ally. i ended up Kicking the crap outta both my opponets and pissing them off so bad they left the game before the battle was over http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif by the time my Ally had returned i had pretty much defeated them and they had left. i myself couldn't stop laughing
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
It would be nice to be able to play free for all battles. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Bringing a weak army and getting double teamed are my most common ways of losing. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
[RDH] Spetz Natz
02-05-2003, 18:37
How about when your ally is eating dinner during a match?
This happened to me in a battle we were certain to win, except my ally (and clanmate)'s two hands were busy stuffing his face, instead of commanding his army.
Terrible defeat that one was. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Skomatth
02-06-2003, 19:52
I was an ally with two RTK's once, then suddenly had to go to the dentist. Since we are m8s they were cool with that so i just rushed my army in the enemies direction...we won.
ElmarkOFear
02-07-2003, 08:19
Luckily UglyElmo's general keeps a smiley face bag over his head to keep from scaring the horses away. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Otherwise all armies enemy and allied would rout at start of game Also, I lose so much my armies begin to waver at the army selection screen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Kongamato
02-07-2003, 09:11
Hey Elmo, do you sometimes swear that your units were "Losing Easily" in battle? This happens to me sometimes.
Making mistakes is why people lose, its simply down to the openent to then take advantage.
very rarely do you get all 16 units to move how you pictured it in your head http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif so i would agree its about mistakes, i guess thats what makes a player special when he can make you make a mistake and then utilise it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe
02-20-2003, 03:14
As I keep losing and losing again, I think I shall be allowed to vote twice.
Louis,
GAH
Vanya typically loses when His insignifican peasantry, which oddly enough makes up the core of Vanya's army, decides to turn and run instead of facing the enemy. This usually leads to Vanya chasing and slaughtering His own men, which then further hurts Vanya's chances of scoring a victory, as Vanya will have no men left to fight.
Now, Vanya *could* take to the field Himself, but He often chooses not to do so simply to make the battle competitive. Vanya relies on "appointed" generals to lead His rabble mobs of headhunters.
Naturally, the typical enemy would easily confuse the surrogate general with Vanya proper, for Vanya assigns the general the title of "vanya".
Vanya has great imperialist designs for the world around Him. Visions of leading mankind into slavery at the holy Whim of the Headless Father (ie, Vanya) brings tears to Vanya's missing head (wherever it lies).
Furthermore, Vanya plans on erecting a grand statue of Vanya mounted on His horse with axe raised in each city He conquers. This statue will rotate 360 degrees each hour, so that the gaze of the enslaved citizens of the new world order can be blessed with the image of their ruler and god no matter where they stand.
Vanya is truly dismayed by how many defy His emmissaries when they come to the battlefield offering the Words of Wisdom...
"Vanya politely asks that the defenders cease their unilateral aggression and unconditionally acquiesce to Vanya's imperialist ambitions."
Such words typically go unheeded. But Vanya understands that many enemies just lack the intellectual capacity to absorb Vanya's wisdom.
"Man's inability to reason with the unreasonable will inevitably ensure that the path of violence is well treaded."
-- Vanya
"Vanya is a humanist Vanya is a fan of man Why else would Vanya collect human heads to adorn His necklace?"
-- Vanya
"Having a head tethers man to an imperfect physical realm. Losing the head thus allows man to grapple with his eternal persona and acheive the ultimate goal of terminal enlightenment."
-- Vanya
GAH
Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe
02-20-2003, 04:53
We fail to grasp possible ways of losing;
Massrout after Vanya's peasant army rout on oneself.
I have yet to experience this but have no doubt it could be devastating.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Also, being sacrificed before the battle on the altar of forgotten god to ensure GAH is on our side.
And recently, I have been quite innovative, betraying my team to ensure routing (yes, by attacking them).
Betrayal was motivated by... lack of ethic... From my allies...
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
Louis,
Kongamato
02-20-2003, 05:41
Gah Louie Gah
Attack your allies only when they are fleeing the field, and they agree with it Your men will now be "eager as the enemy are fleeing", able to gain valor from capturing, and, of course, be in less danger of routing
*DISCLAIMER* This is only theory. I have not tested it.
You also forgot to include when you lost your 4 units of Ottoman infantry to 100 angry Fanatics
Gah
This is the most stagnant thread ever...
Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe
02-20-2003, 21:27
This betrayal is a long story... But for sure allies were not in agreement...
I remember this game, and how desesperate it was... Was my 2nd game ever, and the 1st time I had to face a real pav arb line with turk (never happen in SP), with a real player not willing to move faster than he wants to.
That was also the 1st time I have seen the one line fanatics router chaser squad... That was also bad.
I hate pav arb with a passion since then. Hopefully, I would handle this part of the duel better now, with slightly more experience...
Hope to see you online soon, and be sure I forgot, many, many other humiliating defeats (I would like to be able to vote again to share some fo this experience),
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Louis,
I usually get outmanuevered by a superior player, or doubled by a superior team.
But today . . .
I had the pleasure http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif of being attacked by an allie. Since I was engaged with a long line of two enemies in front of me, and my 'friend' was behind me, when he attacked my army routed almost to a man.
Talk about taking it in the REAR?? ARRRGGH (like GAH, but in a local dialect). So this is my new least favorite way of losing.
*takes a bath to check sphincter muscles, relaxes when he finds out that it is still watertight*
ichi
ErikJansen
03-20-2003, 18:30
I've seen allies turning on each other several times when hosting 2v2 battles. It can be disheartening, but its also quite the laugh when I just move my Cav up to ensure they both depart the field in short order.
Personally I've only experienced an ally attacking me once, that was a 3v3 where we'd almost won, and this maniac ally started charging my reforming units. Even as I moved away telling him to keep his distance, he kept pursuing and charging my forces. According to him we had won, so he could just as well kill me too. Gah http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
After he was history the enemy had rallied and rested, taking me exhausted and ragged army out quite neatly. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
lol, its goo fun fighting an ally http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Quote[/b] (AMPage @ Feb. 05 2003,12:08)]It would be nice to be able to play free for all battles. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
There's that infrequently used feature called "Attack your ally?". Would be really fun to do a 1v1v1v1. Let the man with the most kills win.
Cant answer this never lost a game sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
TGI http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
LRossaLordJimi
03-19-2004, 10:52
Ok a prize of 20.000 dollars for who bring me tgi's skin http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Ave
TonkaToys
03-19-2004, 14:26
I lose 'cos I'm sht at this game... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
Sasaki Kojiro
03-19-2004, 21:40
Messing up or playing clumsy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
son of spam
03-19-2004, 23:56
I never lose because of my lack of skill
I always get "technical difficulties" when I lose, I swear http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
my most times lose because of miscommunication between me and my allies, sometimes due to language barriers.
this most oftenly happens in 4v4 where clans will team up against a mixed enemy and will be organised, and thus beat them.
so i usally get outnumbered and lose.
my favorite matches are 2v2 hilly clan mixers.
so my clan mate and i go into a game and go on different teams, as do the other clan.
makes things new and interesting
thanks, dessa
Lord Rom
03-20-2004, 11:55
I most often lose when...1)Rush Attack in a hurry 2)Let my infantry get seperated from each other 3) Get seperated from my allies
So take your time, prepare for your attack.
Keep your forces together.
Move towards your allies(dont stay on your hill all by your lonesome)
Rom
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
Orda Khan
03-21-2004, 22:43
Would I be too Politically Incorrect by saying.........
" Like a man "
........Orda
Quote[/b] ] " Like a man "
Great words, Orda, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
But I m sure you'll live up to them.
As for me, I keep loosing by most of the points listed in the vote, mainly, however, because my opponent is simply better than me.
My favourite defeat, however, was caused by the fact that I am a lazy bastard. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif
This is how it went :
In a 1v1 my opponent defends on a big hill.
"Are you sure, you want to play this map, Nigel ? You will probably loose."
"Yea, ok, never mind, lets play it anyway." (I had hosted)
I split my army in two and, sacrificing my archers and a good part of my cavalry, I succeed in luring him off the hill. My main army moves around under the cover of trees and, climbing the hill from the side, threatens the men he has left there to guard his rear. Now my slightly reduced army is fighting him on equal grounds or is partially even above him.
The battle is fierce, brutal and long. After some time there are only a few men left on both sides. Eventually his general looses heart and turns to flee. Spurring their horses Nigel's general unit goes after him up the mountain.
"GG, m8"
"Aye, GG indeed", Nigel feels very pleased with himself. What should he do now ? Pursue him up that high mountain, all the way off the map ? Naaa, that's way too tedious. Rather stroll back down the hill and give my swordmen a hand who are finishing off his infantry, some of which are still fighting back.
Meanwhile, the opponent's general, reaching the top of the hill and realizing he is no longer pursued, regains his composure. He turns his horses, takes a deep breath and then charges downhill, at full speed, right into the rear of Nigel's general unit. Shock, Panic, Nigel runs and his troops run with him. A few seconds later the end-screen come up. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-embarassed.gif
It was an excellent game nonetheless.
Lesson to learn : It aint over, till its over.
Orda Khan
03-22-2004, 22:01
......and after all that hard work too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Bad Karma
......Orda
The moment I loose initiative im dead. Cant live without it, need to keep the enemy running and guessing what me and my allies are gonna do next (play most games allied with people I know). Usely, when your winning the skirmishes and your enemy attacks, it will be unprepared and you can outflank and outride him... A head on melee with your infantry (your 6 vs his 6 for example) is to uncertain, unless you can outflank him. Guess thats why I dont like 1 v 1 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif . Confusion and initiative are the main weapons. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
ps I have a couple of TGI skins laying about http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
Vexilles
03-23-2004, 06:09
I have a problem with looseing and that is that i find it hard to blame myself for losing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif When i lose i love to say to myself " not my fault, my allies blew that game" or "the map was unfair, how can i be expected to win attacking from this position". Almost always these are excuses i use when i get shooled by another players superior tactics. I hate to admit it but its often the case so my most common way of looseing is because of another playa's superior tactics. So good job to the many players who have beaten the hell outta me in battle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
Quote[/b] (LRossaLordJimi @ Mar. 19 2004,03:52)]Ok a prize of 20.000 dollars for who bring me tgi's skin http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Ave
Hmmmm good thing I visit sometimes ....
so if anyone wants to say goodbye to jimi .... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
TGI
You can catch Jimi off guard if he is watching TV again
The result is obvious http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
(My normal behavior patron, when I have to find a solution http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif)
Sulla
Quote[/b] (Sulla @ April 06 2004,04:47)]You can catch Jimi off guard if he is watching TV again
The result is obvious http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
(My normal behavior patron, when I have to find a solution http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif)
Sulla
aaaa jimi still doing that TV excuse thing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
TGI
LRossaLordJimi
04-07-2004, 11:07
Damn friends,they know all my secret excuses http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif
Maybe i can change TV excuse with my girlfriend call on the middle of battle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
Ave
I used to use that one, untill we decided we didnt like each other anymore http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
ElmarkOFear
04-07-2004, 22:38
I thought for sure there would be the "Playing with Elmo" choice for how to lose
:)
"Bringing inferior forces"
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
jk
Sulla
Or "team up with weak ally LeChevalierSG" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
The_Emperor
04-19-2004, 15:00
Most common reason for losing?
Incompetant allies is the main reason, be it through bad army configs or lousy strategy.
However another common reason for losing has not been mentioned yet...
Must go to the toilet, no pause button Arrgh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
However for the player who stops at nothing to gain Victory, there is a solution to this problem...
http://www.imperator.v21hosting.co.uk/officesm.jpg
Kongamato
04-19-2004, 15:24
If I could find out the secret of why this thread won't die, I could create invincible soldiers
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