ARMY SIZE

[Juan Madsen]

Will the current maximum size of an army be maintained in RTW?, this is, 16 companies or "century" for a total of 1.600 men?.

the legions varied in size from 4.000 to 6.000 men (depending on the period and manning levels) plus auxilia, being stablished around 6.000 men in the moment of major explendour of the empire. Will we be allowed to fight with a full deployed legion under our command (war machines included?.

I know the reinforcements will be handled more flexibly as I think they have already been implemented in VI, but reinforcements should represent troops that arrive after the battle has begun, just in time, from another place of garrison (or be a detachment or your main unit trying an strategic envelopment).

I will appreciate a comment from the developers and ideas and comments from the rest of you.


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Spino]

I think most of us are rooting for larger armies with an increase in the 16 unit limit. I'd love to see CA increase the limit to 18 or 20.

I would especially love to see CA implement some clever method of controlling more than one army at once. The developers have already mentioned they have incorporated a clever system of giving orders in tactical battles, this sounds like it would make controlling two armies at once a much easier task.

[Acronym]

You could always have a hotkey or icon switching from one army to the other. And bigger army's would be funner. Or even if army size was the same, adding more than 16 units max would help, like 18-24, this would allow more tactical depth.

What I really want to see though is more unit commands, and I want the armies to respond as though they are trained. For example, we should be able to do an orderly withdraw(to lure an enemy) or quickly withdraw from an opponent. Or have an order where a unit adjacent to another can pivot back on the flank. Maybe they'll implement a scripting system where we can have orders pre-given, then the army carriers them out at the press of one button(ie march straight towards enemy, entire army shifts 45 degree's, right flank charges while left flank refuses and holds back, etc).

[Galestrum]

i always imagine that every soldier in game represents 10 in reality.

some of the big battles would be hard to represent i think, 20-30-50k armies oh my it'd be great though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Hakonarson]

During this period most Roman armies consisted of 2 Roman Legions and 2 Latin Allied ones that were essentially the same (but with perhaps more cavalry) - for a total of about 22-25,000 men, plus auxiliaries and allies, and elss losses on campaign.

the army at Cannae was 2 such forces together, numbering perhaps 70,000 men.

[Juan Madsen]

Can any developer tell us if the total number of men deployed in one single battle under command on one player (in SP mode) will be increased?

At least are you analysing such possibility?

[Rosacrux]

The way I see it, incorporating a modest increase in the army size (number of units let's say to 20 or 24 instead of 16) would be quite feasible, since they got a new engine and all. It could or could not though handle a drastical increase (double up, maybe) of the number of men in the units.

But for much bigger armies (say 32 units) things would be quite tough to handle... allthough they could incorporate some kind of help for the player (who doesn't want to be overwhelmed by having to control like 40 units simultaneously) in the form of generals who can understand simple instructions, something in the form of "take the high ground and hold it" or "attack the right wing of the enemy formation" or something like that, while the human player handles the main force.

[Juan Madsen]

That is exactly the sort of solution I would love to have. Although I would also be very happy to be overwhelmed by having to control like 40 units simultaneously[B].

I think with larger armies we would concentrate more on the wide tactical management of the battle (center, wings and reserves) and begun to pay less attention to excesive detail. I mean, instead of checking unit by unit how they performing I would have to learn, by a quick look if the right wing is holding or not. I found this challenging and realistic, since one of the problems generals face many times when in battle is being overwhelmed by the flow of information they receive, many times contradictory.

[theKyl]

IMO the unit size will be lowered to ensure you don't have to buy a 3 ghz pc with geforceFX and 1000 MB ram. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Swoosh So]

As far as i heard the army sizes are smaller

[Rosacrux]

Darn, that would be pretty ahistorical, no? We all know ancient armies were far bigger than their medieval counterparts and we are talking about a period when we have witnessed 130-200.000 men in the battlefield at the same time - a number matched only (I think...)during the 18th century in the Spanish succesion wars.

So, back to our little mind game...

"yes, the game says 1200 men, but you have to multiply that by 10 ...or 20, because they don't actually represent men, but units"

I find it quite annoying, allthough I can live with it, to be honest.

[Spino]

When or where in hell did the developers say the armies would be smaller? This makes absolutely no sense to me. They are touting this new 3D engine as being capable of rendering anywhere from 5,000 to 10,000 men onscreen at once and yet they want to make the armies smaller? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

I don't buy it. Show me some proof guys.

[Juan Madsen]

Yea, if somebody have heard or read that armies will be larger somehow, please tell us. It will make a lot of people happy.

[Juan Madsen]

Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ Mar. 13 2003,07:44)]But for much bigger armies (say 32 units) things would be quite tough to handle...
thinking on this carefully, the difficulty arises when you loose the cohesion of your forces. While you maintain the deployment of your army organised and controlled (my front line here, the right wing moving slowly ahead, my line of archers shooting at those guys on the right,...) in fact it becames easy to control a 16 units army (not without using the pause key however).

In my battles, until I am completely sure of the victory, I try to move my army as a single large unit, by steps. When the different units began to get engaged is when the difficulty of control arise. But again, I find this a nice approach to what reality might have been.

Therefore, a 24 or 32 units army should not be too hard to control while you maintain the control of the deployment.

For MP battles to have larger armies must certainly be a completely different history though. I cannot give an opinion on that since I have always played SP.

[some_totalwar_dude]

For campaing games it should be possible to play with legions that have the same size as they had in reality (say 5000men) and have them all on the field at once.
This way you (almost) dont have to deal with reinfocements and the engine has room left for another 5000 enemy units.

the only problem is you have to take account of allies and say you would have a maximum of 4 factions meating each other on the battle field you could have 2,500/faction without reinforcements.

But imagine this Rome is being treathend by the barbarians
the senate calls in the help of her governers (including you) every roman fraction/province brings his army to fend of the barbarian attack. say 4 armys of +-1200 man.
this way you have controle over 1200 man but you can still withnis a 5000 man strong roman army.
I think a lot of the battles in RTW will be like this.

cheers s.t.w.d.

[Alastair II]

Does anyone have any textual evidence for any numerical estimates they have? Because while I am hopeful for a total army size of 2000 or more, (it was 1920 in STW/MI), I find it somewhat unlikely that, what with the new 3d soldiers, CA will implement over 16000 soldiers (4v4 with 2000 man armies) on the battlefield.

[NewJeffCT]

God, I have enough trouble controlling 16 units in SP MTW. I often have to pause the game to get a run of the battlefield, survey my troops and make sure that none of them have gotten way out of position, or are close to running off the board after some routers.

[spmetla]

I think it's kinda crappy how MTW is advertised as up to 10,000 troops on the battlefield at once but they havn't figured out/or just haven't wanted to implement that many at a time in singleplayer.

I'm all for switching between battalions or what ever. i'd be cool if i could set an objective for a seperate battalion and let it try get it while i manage my own force, then my orginal battalion goes to AI when i switch to manage my 2nd battalion.

[Stormer]

Unlimited number,

recruit till you drop http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif