Sacred Legion?

[Oberiko]

While reading up on Carthage's army (mostly mercs) I came across a type of troop called the Sacred Legion.

Apparantly they were some type of elite, very well armoured Spanish soldiers. What I've yet to find is what type of role they filled (infantry, cavalry etc.)

Anyone have any information on them?

[Longshanks]

The Sacred Band were the elite of the Carthaginian Army. Unlike most of the other soldiers, they weren't foreign mercenaries and fought much like the Greeks. They were heavy infantry recruited from among the Carthaginians.

[Stormer]

hehehe cool name

[Nowake]

Are you sure that the "Sacred Band" doesn't refer to Thebes elite (and homosexual) troops?

[Longshanks]

Quote[/b] (pr Fire @ Mar. 26 2003,03:40)]Are you sure that the "Sacred Band" doesn't refer to Thebes elite (and homosexual) troops?
They are the original Sacred Band, perhaps the Cartaginians were inspired by the Greeks. I'm no expert on the Carthaginian military, so I can't say for sure what the origins of the Carthaginian Sacred Band were. Many nations copied the Greek way of fighting, and employed Greek mercenaries. I imagine they were probably inspired by the Theban Sacred Band.

From what I have read though, the Carthaginian Sacred Band was made up of local Phoenicians though, not Greeks or Iberians. They were also considered the best troops of the army. I do not know whether the Carthagian Sacred Band encouraged homosexuality or not.

[Oberiko]

Thanks Longshanks. The original description was Sacred Legion, which doesn't really show up anywhere. Sacred Band is much easier to find.

From what I've read they were an elite unit in pre-Punic wars made up of nobility, and were some of the only non-mercenaries in the Carthagian army. During the conflict with Rome they were mostly extinct, but there were still enough of them to be mentioned.

[Hakonarson]

There weer a lot of "Sacred Bands" around het Greek world - not all modelled precisely upon the Theban homosexual model, but always considered to be the best soldiers of teh state - much like the French Old Guard of Napoleonic fame.

In Carthages case they were 2500 citizens "distinguished for their valour, reputation and wealth" and also "by the brilliance of their armour and the slow pace and strict discipline of their advance".

They fought in sicily in 341 BC, where they were wiped out, and there weer another 2000 citizen troops in Siciliy in 311 - apparently the last deployment of Carthaginian citizens overseas.

The Sacred Band was reformed in 310 to fight against Agathocles of Sicily, and weer again defeated - they were the last troops to break and run, so they were probably reasonably good.

Carthage lacked the class of small farmers living and owning land outside teh city that made up teh bulk of Greek & roman infantry, and so it never fielded much useful native/citizen infantry.

[Hippolyte]

Truly the Carthaginians illustrate the deficits of reliance upon fickle and often unreliable mercenaries. At sea, for instance, once the Romans applied the "Raven" (a boarding platform) Carthaginian sailors and marines had little of the aggression needed to repel Roman infantry, eventhough they were masterful and clearly superior sailors. And, as Hakonarson suggests quite correctly, Carthaginians never had the citizenry (except in sporadic defensive emergencies) required for both defensive AND offensive campaigns. The Greeks began the tradition of the farmer/soldier but they were largely limited in the seasons they were able to fight, meaning that the farmers had to return to sow or harvest the crops. The Romans, on the other hand, had an excess of able bodies men (seemingly a bottomless reserve if you could ask their opponents&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif that were very conveniently applied to matters of war. Indeed, because Rome praised militarism above virtually all things, skill in battle was a great source of honour for commoners as well as the Consuls (conquests and victories were equated with esteem for the entire family, a very powerful political tool). Because Carthage lacked such a citizen army and mercenaries were readily available (Carthage was able to transport mercs from northern Spain to the ne coast of n. Africa) the Carthaginians simply paid Gauls, Numidians, Libyans, and expatriot (or expelled) Romans to fight for them, while their officers and commanders were typically of the Carthaginian nobility. Additonally, I believe it was after the unfavourable conclusion of the first Punic War that returned mercs stirred up local Libyans, etc., and threatened the very gates of Carthage itself One Carthaginian leader who initially had acted as a spokesman for the mercs was dismembered and thrown into a ditch. The Carthaginians gathered what citizenry and loyal mercs they could and with largely superior tactics (and diplomacy) defeated the troublesome mercs. I believe its leaders were crucified.

[DBS]

Bit unfair to accuse Carthage's mercenaries as unreliable - no evidence of this whatsoever. The Mercenaries War only occurred after a complete failure to pay them after years - even decades - of loyal and honourable service during the First Punic War - just about the longest war in ancient history. Mercenary was not a dirty word - it just meant that someone was fighting primarily for pay, rather than out of the duty of a citizen. To the Greeks, a modern volunteer member of the British or US military would seem closer to their concept of a mercenary.

As for Sacred Bands, always worth remembering that we do not know what the Carthaginians called their unit precisely. What we have are Greek historians, or Roman historians often working off Greek sources, describing the unit, and thus applying Greek names and concepts to roughly, but not necessarily exact, equivalents. For example, Polybius does not talk of Roman maniples, but speira. A modern example would be UK or US historians talking of Luftwaffe squadrons, wings, groups during the Second World War, as opposed to staffel, gruppe, geschwader.

[Leet Eriksson]

the spanish you were refering to where not the sacred band,but the Iberian swordsmen who were mercenaries that carthage recruited.they carried swords called falcatas that functioned as armour peircing weapons like axes,the weired design looks like a hybrid sword/axe weapon.

some pics on the falcata (http://www.barca.fsnet.co.uk/iberian-weapons.htm)

EDIT:i'd like to add,that these mercenaries were efficient at their job too.

[Hurin_Rules]

I'd have to agree with the person who said don't disparage the mercenaries.

I know in the Middle Ages that mercenaries were often the best troops around, and the only real professionals. Kings' bodyguards (familia, mesnie, comitatus) were the core of most armies. I even remember a passage from Orderic Vitalis where a mixed group of mercenaries and local troops were defending a castle; the local troops gave in but the mercenaries were disgusted and kept fighting. Eventually, they too gave up, but as they rode out under surrender terms they loudly proclaimed that the castle would never have fallen except for the amateurish nature of the locals. The mercenaries were treated with honour.

The Gauls at Carrhae fought for the Romans, and were noted to be the only troops who gave a good account of themselves-- the Roman Legions buckled and collapsed like a house of cards.

[Hakonarson]

Hurrin the Legions at Carhae did nothing of the sort - they sat for hours being shot to pieces, and only surrendered when their leaders had been trachourously slain and they were completely surrounded and cut off from any rescue.

The Gauls were cavalry, so they weer at least able to come to grips with the Parthians, although there was little they could do to the cataphracts.

[Nowake]

How odd. I remeber some german cavalrymen were sent under the command of Crassus son at Carhae. They were less armoured than the gauls, still they managed to do a fine jod, even in front of the cataphracts.

[Hakonarson]

There's no mention of Germans in Plutarch's Life of Crassus - the Gauls are said to be much lighter armoured than the Parthians (well..yeah ) - perhaps you're getting the 2 confused?

Paulus, Crassus' son, bought 1000 cavalry from Caesar's army in Gaul, and these are specifically mentioned as being most of the 1300 cavalry he took with him (the other troops being 500 archers and 8 cohortes).

The write up certainly has the Gallic cavalry fighting bravely - but to no effect, much as individual Roman legionaries did when they got fed up with being peppered and charged out to the Parthians - of the Gallic cavalry it is said

"They grasped the long spears of the Parthians in their hands, grappled with the riders and pulled them down, clumsy with all their weight of armour, from their horses. Many of them too abandoned their own horses and, crawling under those of the enemy, stabbed them in the belly."

But they were not accustomed to heat or thirst, and lost many of their own horses on the long spears of the Parthians and were driven back to their infantry.