Should improving battlefield ai

[Swoosh So]

hmm

[Swoosh So]

I dont think the ai improved much in mtw, dont the people who program the ai ever watch online games? i mean stop those missle units when they get in range and fire, dont attack hand to hand untill the missle battle has run for a while especially if u have superior missle units, now is that so hard? i play custom battles alot and get the hump when the ai just marches straight for me, then jumps around like a newbie. In single player its worse hardly any frontal attacks it tries to walk every unit around your spearwall while getting shot to bits how dumb

[Acronym]

The ai needs much improvement, even on hardest it's like playing a newb. The AI always shuffles around their missle units while under fire, and never form a missle line, resulting in heavy casualties. Not only that, sometimes during a missle war with the AI they will march around some melee units back and forth under missle fire, for no apparent reason, it only causes them casualties.

[Aelwyn]

Sometimes in order to get my MTW fix I am forced to play custom battles, since the only ones online sometimes seem to be 1v1 or 2v2 99k florin games, or other such games that make me not even want to play. So I play custom battles....which aren't any better. Whats with the AI running inf and cav units up to their archers? Is it to their missles don't get rushed? I assume thats it, but seriously, what is a person going to do at that point? Pick apart the infantry with missles. Its just not necessary.

[Alastair II]

Aelwyn, maybe you're not looking hard enough, because nearly every time I go online there's at least one 25k or 15k game about to start, and if they're full, then all I have to do is wait for about five minutes while asking for a 15k game (I can't host, firewall), and then I get a game. So you might try that.

On the AI, unless it can get up to the level of at least a middling MP player, I think it shouldn't be improved, as it provides much challenge to the SP-only goer (it was hard until I started MP). Also, there are many in SP who like to win and don't mind no challenge. Therefore, I think it shouldn't be improved.

[Stormer]

yes the AI must be improved doing ambushes and try to act human like as in flanks and makeing defensiveive postions on mountins.

[Spino]

Improving the AI ranks number one on my list. The Total War series are overwhelmingly about the single player experience and therefore greater weight should have been placed on providing a more capable AI opponent. On the other hand this is the TOTAL WAR series and I can see why CA decided to make the strategic AI in STW and MTW so single minded in its pursuit of conflict. I guess the problem lies in the fact that many of us wanted to play a Civilization-like strategic game as well and felt somewhat cheated when we realized the AI wanted nothing more than to provide us with constant combat instead of pursuing more realistic and sensible strategies.

Overall I would have to say that as it stands, the strategic AI needs much more work than the tactical AI. There's too much to cover here but when it comes down to it MTW's strategic AI seems too hell bent on fighting multi-front wars and painting itself into a corner. This is somewhat understandable for your basic Conquer the map campaign but it does not work well at all for the Glorious Achievment campaign. Much of the problem is rooted in the crude and simplistic diplomatic model which CA has assured us will be addressed in RTW. On the other hand MTW's tactical AI is a classic case of 'close but no cigar'. It seems so close to doing the right thing but never carries through with a sensible decision. I'm sure all of us have lost count of those battles we should have lost but won simply because the AI failed to press home the attack instead of timidly tumbling headfirst into failure. Relevant to this is the 'indecisive dance of infamy' which is probably the most glaring weakness of the tactical AI.

Regardless of the spectacular eye candy and plethora of new features that are sure to be found in RTW if the AI is not markedly improved over previous installments then I will definitely restrain myself from recommending RTW to fellow gamers as heartily as I did with STW and MTW.

[Elwe]

And all the hardcore MP players will complain about the AI no-matter what until an AI can be designed that perfectly emulates a human mind... Don't hold your breath.

Sorry, I do agree the AI needs some good tweaking.. but do you have any idea how complex the programming of an artificial intelligence really gets?

You need to suck it in and accept the fact that an AI opponent just won't come up to scratch with a human... at least not likely in our lifetime.

Cheers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Acronym]

As for tactical AI, would it really require a lot of cpu power to use a chess-like AI? Sort of treating each unit of say 100 men like a chess piece, coming up with the best placement and maneuvers for a certain unit, depending on the type of unit and where the opponent places his units. If it requires too much processing, maybe only run a routine like that every so often.

I'm not sure, my programming skills never went beyond simple graphics programs and text games.

[Nowake]

I think Acronym has a good ideea, but you would have to adapt in order to give a big importance to the geographical, weather, morale etc. factors ...

so ... no can do ...

[Swoosh So]

Well the count looks like its going toward the ai being improved as v important i hope ca take note

Which programer is our contact here at the org for rome total war?

[Nowake]

I'm new around here, but isn't that fellow MikeB the one?

[Shahed]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif I am of the truly extraordinary and unique opinion that MTW battle AI is more intelligent than a lot of human players (no offence http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ).

Having said that it still needs improvement, particularly in the area of standing still or walking about foolishly as if on parade in plain line of fire of my valor 9 arbalesters. Needless to say the AI finds it's armies decimated by misile fire before hand to hand can ensue. This is an example of the true brilliance of the AI. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Did that make any sense ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[baz]

nope http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif but it is true the AI needs to learn to cover its flanks and avoid missiles for it to become more of a challenge :S

[Shahed]

Yes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif basically what I am saying is the AI is good but needs to be much much better.

[Nowake]

The AI's most stupid mistake is its preferance for leting himself lured out from his positions ... With only a small cavalry unit you can drag him in front of your troops even if he is defending ... Very disapointing ... The player cannot lose ...

[Aelwyn]

My personal favorite is when the AI parades back and forth with their entire army while attacking...but don't attack until maybe 10 minutes or so into the battle. They just go back and forth laterally...tiring out their units. Then the attack is pretty uncoordinated. Why bring 3 units of peasants to attack me, then get caught in the route?

[Alrowan]

i hope they do.. i hate the SP AI, is too icky... i love humans only now.... i guess mp destroyed sp for me

[Knight_Yellow]

well its took me weeks but ive thought of a funny answer


Q. Should improving battlefield ai be high on CA's list....

A. Does a bear shit in the woods?


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Swoosh So]

Well so far it looks to me like they want to make pretty roman soldiers dance around in front of missle units, alot of graphical improvements but unless the ai is improved its just mush http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I mean i dont even know what nodachi look like close up and i played thousands of game of shogun, I never felt the need to 'zoom in', might as well make rome a first person shooter because they have nice graphics but ai that cant make tea http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Skomatth]

Guys if you want to know how the computer uses units, look at the stat file. For each unit it gies a value which the comp uses to decide how to use it.

As for my opinion, there are more important things.

[Aelwyn]

Bah Why should I pay to do the work Sko? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif Seriously though, as long as it works, doesn't matter to me what they have to do to get it there. The main reason I want better AI is this: on expert the AI gets a pretty good morale boost, and this should make them a bit harder. But even on expert, the AI will part its gen right in front of my missle line and get cut down. No amount of morale boost alone is going to save that general from missle fire. So the conclusion, its rather unsmart for the AI to do this.

[FesterShinetop]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Mar. 28 2003,04:03)]well its took me weeks but ive thought of a funny answer


Q. Should improving battlefield ai be high on CA's list....

A. Does a bear shit in the woods?


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Exactly.

So you propably also voted Gah http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

They should always be improving battlefield AI. There still isn't such a thing as perfect AI... and I am not sure if this is a good thing or not http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[Swoosh So]

Apache i asked if the ai should be high on ca's list of course we want all aspects of the game to ge improved, But i was asking what players of the game thought was a priority.

You can have as many units as you like in sp but untill the battlefield ai and campmap ai is improved the game is just a walkover for most of us.

[FesterShinetop]

Fair enough. You are right.
In that case it has to be the highest on the list as this sort of game really depends on good AI.

[lonewolf371]

If you want some hard AI try Empire Earth, you'll get your *** handed to you on a silver platter on hard no matter how good you are.

Yes, AI improvement should be high. The AI sometimes tries to utilize certain aspects in the wrong way, AKA not sending cavalry out to do flanking maneuvers. Also, I absolutely hate it when the AI just sits there with all its units once it brings in reinforcements.

[Div Hunter]

Hmmm I can see why the AI in MTW is so crap now if it really does just use a number matching system. That can't work unless the player lines up all their units and then just sits there http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif Would be a lot better if the AI chose an attack patern depending on the unit types it has on the field. Something like got cav go for the flanks, more ranged than enemy go for a ranged duel, lots a forest dismount knights ect ect. Add the ability to do more than one of these and you have cav trying to flank you while the enemy missile moves in range and starts firing plus all the other almost infinite possibilities. At least if the AI chose an attack patern it wouldn't hesitate in the face of missile fire and ordered formations.

[Spino]

You're definitely onto something there Div. I would give anything if the AI kept the bulk of its forces in some premade battle formation and moved the majority of them all at once while a certain percentage of its cavalry operated independently on the flanks or whatnot.

On another note I can safely say I have never seen the AI use any of the more exotic pre-made battle formations during combat. There are so many times when the AI would benefit by using Square, Eastern Cavalry or Ottoman formations and maintain them up to the point when contact is made.

[Satyr]

The only reason EE hard was so darn hard to beat was the amount of monetary cheating taking place by the AI. His tactics were not necessarily any better, he could just produce many more units than you much earlier in the game because of the $$$ bonus he got. However, I will admit that EE had one of the better AI's so far. Kohan was also really good.

BUT

MTW is not competent. And I think you might be surprised at how many SP players would like a better AI. Many of us don't play much Multi because we like the campaign better than just the battles. I like that sense of accomplishment when I conquer a tough faction or win a hard battle when I was way out numbered. If the AI was good (make more choices for AI difficulty level) then many of us would be way happier. Now the only way to get a good battle is to go in way outnumbered or with lousy troops or to play Multi. I wish it were not so and I sincerely hope CA works hard at improving this.