RTW Vices and Virtues

[Herodotus]

I started this thread in the Entrance Hall but I think it would be better here.

It has occurred to me that RTW will have vastly different Vices and Virtues as the morality of the day was very different. So I'm going to list some possible Roman Vices and Virtues.

Bribery +2 loyalty 'This mans loose purse strings ensure a healthy following.'

Murderer +1 loyalty 'This man has been known to use an assassin to solve his problems.'

silver tongued politician +2 loyalty -2 command 'His plans may make sense in the Senate, but when he puts them to action they fail miserably.'

populares (champion of the people) -3 loyalty or +3 Influence if Emperor 'If the senate does not agree with him he appeals to the people, who force the senate to agree.'

ambitious -4 loyalty +3 command 'He openly aspires to become King of the world'

adulterer -1 loyalty +1 command 'This man is no stranger to the ladies who he often illicits important information from.'

Bravery -1 command +1 valour 'His charging headlong into battle inspires the men but leaves him in a poor position to guide them.'

Discipline +3 command 'His men are drilled in the extreme the result being an extraordinarily efficient body of men'

delayer -2 valour -10 happiness 'his policy of avoiding battle has given him the nickname delayer and has given his opponents an oppurtunity to defame him.'

god fearing +2 command +1 Piety -2 Acumen 'he offers sacrifice to the gods regularly to keep his men in high spirits.'

superstitious +1 Piety -1 Acumen 'his constant fear of and adherence to superstitions takes time away from his work.'

bloodlust +20 happiness -3 Acumen +1 Command +5 dread 'he stages many gladiator fights and always attends them.'

Greek slaves +3 Acumen 'his slaves do all his accounting for him and are astoundingly good at it.'

Drunk -2 Valour -1 Acumen against assassins 'His drinking makes poisoning an easy prospect

Well, tell me what you think and add some of your own

[Herodotus]

Here are some more of mine

They don't have to be Rome specific, they just have to fit the morality of the time. Here are some more

Orgy Host -10 health +15 happiness -1 Acumen 'he is a regular host of lavish orgies'

Merciful -1 Valour 'His softness towards the enemy concerns his men'

Arrogant -1 loyalty +2 Valour 'This man has spread rumours that he was born by a goddess.'

Barbarian Tendencies -2 loyalty -2 command -2 acumen 'his loyalties no longer lay in Rome'

Vanity -1 Acumen +1 command +5 happiness 'He is very image concsious, he creates himself in an image of power and vitality. Although this detracts from his real work.'

German Bodyguard +2 dread +2 valour against assassins 'he is a large man for a Roman, but he is dwarfed by his German Bodyguard.'

Back Stabber -3 loyalty +3 Acumen -15 happiness 'This man is willing to do anything to turn a profit.'

Homicidle Maniac -1 Acumen +5 dread +5 valour against assassins 'This mans constant combat readiness has cost the lives of several of his servants who have the un-enviable job of waking him.'

[Herodotus]

And here are a few from Longshanks

Vices:

Deranged: He has ordered his troops to collect sea shells and has made his horse a Centurion.

-2 Command, -2 Acumen

Whoremonger: His frequent trips to brothels are well known and scandalous. It is rumored that he has contracted disease.

-5 health, -1 influence

Epileptic: He has inherited epilepsy from his ancestors.

-5 health

Secret Christian: He has thus far managed to keep secret his belonging to a cult worshipping Jesus of Nazareth.

Christian: He has been exposed as a member of the Christian cult.

-3 piety


Virtues:

Sponsor of the Games: He is well known and adored for sponsoring lavish gladitorial bouts and circuses.

+10 happiness

Educated by Greeks: He has been fortunate enough to have been sent to Greece for his education as a child.

+3 Acumen, +1 Influence

Student of Alexander: His studying of the campaigns of Alexander the Great have made him a better commander.

+1 Valour, +1 Command

Army brat: He spent his youth travelling with his father on campaigns. Because of this, he is well liked by his soldiers who view him as one of them.

+1 Valour, +2 Command


And some from Monk

i got a couple...

Nerotic: a number of assasins Have failed to Kill him, leaving him slow to trust and very suspitious of both his soldiers and Emperor.

-2 command, -2 loyalty

Lepracy: He has contracted the Desiese of Lepracy, this has affeted his daily life and skills as a commander.

-1 command, -10 health


Openly Disloyal: This Man does not support your actions and makes that well known, while his Command is great becouse of confidence his Men are discouraged to fight under him. He is very likely to start a Civil war.


+1 command, -5 Loyalty


Against Gladitorial Events: This man is seen as crazy for his dislike of the Gladiator Games. Therefore giving him more time for Political problems that may arise. however it may make his subjects unhappy.

+2 Acumen, (If Emperor) -1 influence, -10 happiness


well those are my ideas

[Herodotus]

Some from Pablo Sanchez

Engineer
Your general's efforts in road and aqueduct construction are unrivaled.
+5 happiness, +3 acumen

Triumphant
Your general's victorious parade through Rome has made him famous--and arrogant.
+3 morale, +5 happiness, -2 loyalty

Logistical Genius
Your general understands the science of supply, keeping his men well-fed and his line of communication clear.
+3 morale, +3 acumen

Slave Dealer
This governor's excessive dealings in the slave trade have made his subjects angry.
-5 happiness, +1 acumen

Sycophant
He has attained his military post largely because of his flattery of his superiors.
-2 command, -1 acumen, +2 loyalty

Incompetent
Connections, bribery, or dumb luck? No one knows how this man became powerful.
-3 command, -3 acumen


And a few from Big King Sanctaphrax

How about;
Secret rebel-Unbeknownst to his superiors, he is a member of the Judean Peoples Front()-1 loyalty,-1 piety
Gladiator-He adores the games so much that he has been known to enter the arena himself:this has refined his combat skills-+1 valour, -10 health.
Thirst for revenge-He is the husband of a murdered wife, father of a murdered son, and he will have his revenge-+2 valour, -3 loyalty.
Lisp-Due to his inability to pronounce names such as'Brian' and 'Robin' he finds it impossible to address his subjects without them collapsing into fits of laughter- -20 happiness.
Praetorian-This man served in the Emperors finest, and is a formidable combat leader. His men respect him for this- +3 morale,+1 valour.
A couple of subtle film references in there.

[Herodotus]

And a few more from me

Great suggestions guys. I don't think that Gladiator one is any good though Big K.S. That would be political/social suicide for any Roman of status (the same can almost be said about running ones own business).

The galdiator fights were about pyschology, the Romans felt surrounded by barbarians and so to relieve themselves of that fear they would surround barbarians and force them to fight each other.

More likely would be 'Great sponsor of the games' which I think i already did

Now let me see if I can think of any new ones.

Gambler - He loves the chariots and puts his money where his mouth is to prove it. -2 Acumen

Romantised History buff - He takes the Myths much to seriously -3 command +1 Valour

drug addict - He is mildly addicted to a substance that makes him fearless and painless. -1 Acumen +2Valour +1dread -5 health

major drug addict - His drug taking has taken it's tole on his body and now he is addicted to numerous substances. -2 Acumen +4 dread -15 health

[Hakonarson]

Very clever http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Un fortunately a lot of these are anachronistic - sexual vices should be relatively unknown - the ancients weer a LOT less prudish than we are . Many of the houses in Pompei, for example, have an erect penis over the entrance as a sign of good luck

Frequenting brothels was the norm.

Also drugs...what drugs? The ancients didn't recognise this as a vice either. Nor drunkardness.

And no Roman could have any vice relating to kingship of the world or anythign to do with the Emperor sorry - this game is set to END when the Republic is overthrown and even then it doesn't officially become an empire.

There should probably be more fairly standard personality vices - irritable, intolerant, arrogant for example.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Just because it's not frowned upon dosen't make drugs non-harmful.

[Hakonarson]

I wonder what drugs they actually had back then - appart from alcohol & hemlock?

[Herodotus]

There were many of drugs available, in the Odyssey (ancient Greek story) drugs are taken at a dinner party the effect was to take away all of their sad thoughts and only allow happy ones.

I can't remember specific Roman pleasure drugs, aside obviously from alcohol but I know they used many more poisons than hemlock. The poison seller even held a status of confidentiality equivalent to that of a priest recieving a confession. All forms of poison were available and most of them were not for killing. Poison was mostly used to incapacitate the competition during times of prospective promotion or other social competition.

[Catiline]

Lucullus had a passion for some special mushrooms i believe. According to Herodotus the scythians had cannabis that they chucked on hot stones in tents. 'They enjoy it so much that they howl in pleasure.' Curiously he then goes on to say 'This is their substitute for an ordinary bath in water'

[Catiline]

Actually htinking about it, kingship itself could be a vice from the Roman point of view. If you wanted to chuck a really dirty insult at someone in the Republic they could be accused of regnum, the desire to be king. This kiss of death to more than one political career (often more htan the kiss as well)

[lonewolf371]

Kind of happened to Caesar, but everyone loved Augustus so he didn't die http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

Organized
He is one of the most organized men of his time, always thinking things through. +1 command, +1 acumen.

By the Book
He always does things as he's taught, this does however make him an un-innovative businessman. +1 command, +1 loyalty, -1 acumen.

[Captain Fishpants]

Just to let you know that a vice and virtue system is being worked into Romans. I'm currently hip-deep in vice, sin and iniquitous filth, and that's just the nice bits. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Some people in the Ancient World were really quite inventive...

I can't give much away yet, but some vices will be limited to specific cultures. It's unlikely, for example, that a Greek governor would develop a bit of a thing for gladiatorial combat. Equally, the Romans had strict attitudes towards some personal behaviour patterns. Hopefully you'll see these different attitudes will be reflected in the RTW VnVs.

Quite a few won't be quite as might be expected. Slave Dealer, for example, is likely to make it into the game as a mixed bag: no general worth his salt would be criticised for selling his captives into slavery and making a few denarii on the side...

MikeB ~ CA

[Leet Eriksson]

Egyptian vice:

Stinky

This guy smells like hell thus effecting his troops morale

morale -3

and no i'm not kidding http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Longshanks]

Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ April 16 2003,03:21)]Just to let you know that a vice and virtue system is being worked into Romans. I'm currently hip-deep in vice, sin and iniquitous filth, and that's just the nice bits. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Some people in the Ancient World were really quite inventive...

I can't give much away yet, but some vices will be limited to specific cultures. It's unlikely, for example, that a Greek governor would develop a bit of a thing for gladiatorial combat. Equally, the Romans had strict attitudes towards some personal behaviour patterns. Hopefully you'll see these different attitudes will be reflected in the RTW VnVs.

Quite a few won't be quite as might be expected. Slave Dealer, for example, is likely to make it into the game as a mixed bag: no general worth his salt would be criticised for selling his captives into slavery and making a few denarii on the side...

MikeB ~ CA
Sounds interesting Captain, thanks for the update

[Herodotus]

Some real news at last