Religion's role ...

[Nowake]

We all know about STW's conflict between christianism and Budha's tao, not to mention the sineous ways religion has to follow in MTW ... but what's new in Rome in this area? The gods were revered then more than in the Middle Ages, the smell of burning human flesh rising from the pagan altars was filling the air with mith ... I won't mention here the ferocity of the warriors inspired by the faith ... gauls, dacians, jews, germans ... they all had their Valhalla ... So, how's CA going to handle this? Because I think that the feeling we had in STW and of which we lost track in MTW, could regain its place through the development of this feature ... think of the diversity of religion, and about how it truly guided human life back then; the advanced roman society was still consulting the sacred chickens in a time when Epicur's teachings were almost at their height, no?

And the dacians (for me being so fond of them) belived in the immortality of the soul, considering death just a change of realm. In order to talk with their god, Zamolxes, they impaled a man into spears - after, of course, they told him their wishes. It was considered a honour to be the messenger, and people often volunteered. At a child's birth you could hear all of them crying for him, as they thought about life as about a sad place, where they were separated from their gods. On the other hand, at somebody's funeral, everybody was happy and joyfull for the dead.

[some_totalwar_dude]

I think religion will play a smaller role on in RTW that it did in MTW. Romans mostly allowed the subjected people to keep there own religion. as long as they also worshipd the roman gods, witch they mostly did. So your probely aren't going to see any revolts caused by differences in religion (exept for the jews than)( hope they put in masada as a historycle battle)

But that you still have the by fait inspired warriors you told about, I came with an idee.
I.E. maby if you hired some barbarian warriors there figthing effectisnis will go down over time because they come in to contact with the roman religions and they get less fanatical.
CA could inplent a stat for every unit where you could see what religion it worships and the zeal of the unit. more zealos warriors would be more effective than the ones that are losing there fait.

[Nowake]

but why should religion play a small role in RTW, when it was so diversed and such an important matter in the human life back then ...

CA should really seek deeper in order to depict this era, than it did for MTW.

[Rosacrux]

The importance of religion back then, at least in the "civilized" mediteranean area (Rome, Greece, Hellenistic kingdoms etc.) was trivial at best... nothing like the fanaticism and intolerance we saw during the Christian era (which is depicted allthough quite abstractly in MTW).

In a nutshell: if religions importance in MTW was 8 (in a 1-10 scale) in RTW it has to be less than 3...

[Leet Eriksson]

hmmm i was wondering,since the game ends in 14 AD will christianity play a role?

EDIT:my bad jesus is still a kid by that time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif.

[Galestrum]

jesus prby didnt start his teaching until around 30 AD so id say no christianity.

I agree that religion is less important in RTW than MTW. Compare the number of religious wars before and after chistianity and islam came about. Also note how relatively quickly all the other religions fell to the way side.

[Nelson]

Romans could be astoundingly religious. We would say superstitious but for them it was fear of what the gods may be doing. Omens could be found anywhere. The most pious of commanders would consult augers frequently. Priests were important.

Romans would also not comprehend a division between state and religion. Major priesthoods were often held by important politicians.

[Kongamato]

Were Oracles used?

If so, assignments from an Oracle's prediction might be handed out by the Senate to the player, sort of like GA goals. These little distractions might present a nice challenge to players and prevent them from conquering the world too quickly.

[Hakonarson]

Religon played an important part in almost every aspect of ancient life - but what was markedly absent was conflict because of religous differences.

With multiple polytheistic religons it was no great problem at all to worship another god or 2, and as someone said the Romans didnt' care whatever else you did as long as you also accepted the "state" religon (actually IIRC this came much later as a persecution of christianity but the principle is correct).

Indeed oracles to gods such as Delphi were routinely accessed by ppl who didn't necessarily follow that god - or who saw the god as a member of their own pantheon - IIRC Alexander's journey to a desert oracle in Egypt was to a Grek god who he considered the equivalent of hte Egyptian one resident there (or something like that).

IMO it was only with the rise of intolerant monotheistic religons (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) that differences in religon became a cause for war - it was no longer acceptable for your neighbout to worship his idols or false Gods - and you could see it as your divine duty to persuade him of the error of his ways

[Elwe]

Quote[/b] (Hakonarson @ May 15 2003,19:37)]IMO it was only with the rise of intolerant monotheistic religons (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) that differences in religon became a cause for war - it was no longer acceptable for your neighbout to worship his idols or false Gods - and you could see it as your divine duty to persuade him of the error of his ways
I agree. Exactly how I see it too. Relgion, while extremely important in everyday life, was in important in battle to the extent of your God(s) granting you victory. The religion of the enemy was not a factor in war in the ancient world.

Cheers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Nowake]

Well, in 101 A.D., at Tappae, the romans met the dacian army ... The battle was fierce, Trajan it is said to have torn appart his shirt in order to fulfill the request for bandages (of course, a simbolic gesture) ... The dacians abbandoned the field when a strong storm began, as they thought that the gods were against them ...

Of course, this could be more a legend than hystorical fact (although ancient roman writers are the ones who depicted it) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif but these things were not very uncommon ... Priests often made sacrifices before the battle ... a normal practice, I'd may say, in the roman army.

[RisingSun]

Actually, nobody really went on campaigns because of religion. religon was secondary in the military sense. Sure, you prayed for victory, but you didnt care if the enemy worshipped different panheon then you. But,in reality, almost all the civilized peoples considered themselves to have the same exact pantheon, simply diferent names. Read Herodotus and you'll know what i mean.

[Hakonarson]

Exactly right RS - a sun god is the sun god regardless ofwhat name you give him/her.

And yes the Gods were thought to intervene in battle - but these days we call that morale http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I do like the story about the Roman admiral who's chickens refused to eat the grain they were fed - a bad omen - so he threw them into the sea saying they could drink instead http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

He lost

[Heraclius]

He was a Claudian wasn't he? the bad sort of apple as Robert Graves described him.

[Nowake]

Indeed, he was of Claudian kin http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


BTW, the greeks and romans and few barbarian kindoms admited (such as the dacians, who provided Aesculap, Bachus, Ares, Diana ... ), indeed, the pantheon as being common for all, but the phenomenon of sincretism was rarely seen at others (eg judeans).