Map, cities, forts ...

[Nowake]

Well, now that pieces start coming toghether, I think that it's the time to ask about the campaign's map scale ... It is sure that it can't look as general as the one from Medieval ... the new system would loose all its eficiency ... The map must look with Rhodos at normal scale like Crete in Medieval. Then we would have the posibility of thinking the marches and distances in military terms.

Also, the cities: are there going to be plenty of them? Will we have, like in Medieval, 5 cities in all Italy? Because that would ruin the atmosphere and the military aspect, in my humble opinion. Italy had so many cities in that period, even the small ones should not be ignored, as in a military campaign those could make THE difference. But only looking for the big and very important ones, we reach to a pretty big number: Rome (with Ostia, of course) Capua, Cumae, Veii, Neapus, Pisa, Tarentum, Pompeii, Ravenna, Brundisium, Ancona, Arminium, Verona, Genoa, Mediolanum only in Italy; and these can be counted as the big cities, along them can be found numerous others, less important and powerfull.

The forts ... In the ign preview was stated:

"You build forts in important spots and have them shown up when the real-time battle begins and set-up strategic pincer movements on the strategic map and have them bear fruit in a real-time battle as your reinforcements arrive in the rear of the enemy."

Now, I have one question: if I see a ... hill, and want to construct a fort upon it, will I be able to do it at my own will and pleasure?


Hope somebody from CA will give me (and, in fact, to all of us) an answer, even it it's brief and inconclusive http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Stormer]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Nowake]

Now, what's that supposed to mean? Were you "writing" to yourself? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Stormer]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Nowake]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, indeed ... now c'mon, Stormer http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[Nowake]

so we have one answer untill now: hmmmmmmmmmmmmm http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Michael the Great]

Quote[/b] (Stormer @ May 17 2003,10:29)]hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I think I'll have to agree with that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Catiline]

Come on lads, discuss th6e topic or this gets closed

[Stormer]

Quote[/b] ]Come on lads, discuss th6e topic or this gets closed

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm as in i dont have a clue.

[some_totalwar_dude]

The map will be made of squares each representing a battle field, mos people now this right?
I think on the srategey map you can select a square and order to build a fort there, maby you can even choose the exact position like you said or maby the computer will choose te most favorable position.

About cities, CA told us cities will be a importend aspect of warefare (drawing of soldiers/militia income, maby even supplies for armies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif )
so I think there will be lot's of cities, maby even small farmer villages

my 2Cents :wave

edit: I cheacked the first preview in pcgamer februarie.
they said that you will be able to inspect your cities/fords on weakspots in the defences, so maby you could customize your fords/cities by adding walls and towers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Leet Eriksson]

I like it the way medieval is at now,although its a nice touch to make forts and other structures be built manually i still think there should be an auto feature becuase it might become too complicated for newer players(especially when considering placing walls and towers manually becuase it seems pretty much like stronghold).I don't want to go off topic but if the game is mostly auto or manual it might destroy the fun in it(for example MOO3 could be played entirely in auto wich made the game repetitive and boring while Warlords III was so manual it became complicated).

[RisingSun]

This is getting confusing. At first they said it was a giant 3d map. Then they said it wasn feasible, adso was divided into squares. But, if you look at the E3 thing, it seems like the went bac to the giant 3d map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[some_totalwar_dude]

Quote[/b] (RisingSun @ May 18 2003,20:53)]This is getting confusing. At first they said it was a giant 3d map. Then they said it wasn feasible, adso was divided into squares. But, if you look at the E3 thing, it seems like the went bac to the giant 3d map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
No, the map will still concist of squares each consisting of a battle field (bigger than the ones in MTW).
But you can see what's several squares away (like the shots with mountains in the distance).
but what from I read the enemy can still flee from the map. Let's hope you can chase them to the other square and qontinue fighting there. that would be nice even if you have to wait a few sec for the map to load.

[RisingSun]

I dont see a point in being able to see whats several squares away if you cant move there, because that would create the illusion you can move there when you cant. But, if you can, that would be fantasmical.

[some_totalwar_dude]

yeah well, its more realisic this way than the random hills as a background in STW/MTW. and because then everything you can see on the map is also in the field.

like when your fighting 20 miles from rome to protect the city from some barbarian horde, and yur army is the only one that can save the city. If you look back you can actualy see what yur fighting for in the distance.

[RisingSun]

Perhaps that should have some kind of morae-enhancing bonus? But if you were 30 mile from Rome, you wouldn't see it anyways, because after 13 miles the natural curv of the Earth makes it impossible to see. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[Shahed]

I'm imagining it to be a bit like CIV3. There will be cities but I would not expect them to represent every single one, historically. Perhaps you will be able to found cities yourself, but this would be too much CIV3 like, so I think they won't go that far.

Forts and placing your armies. I would think that you will be able to place your army at a strategic pass, hill, or whatever. I think that you will also be able to select a spot for building your forts, wherever you want on the map. I also think that fortifications will be upgradeable as in the TW series so far. So we could see something like Masada in Judea. I think the main aspects will revolve around the cities, and the ability to capture them.

Unlike in MTW the cities will be at least one of the sources of income for your empires. Ideally, the rural areas would also be contributing to your income; hence there would be an incentive in controlling the countryside.

[RisingSun]

There is a thread about founding cities, and it has been deermined tat there really isnt a wa aound it, we'll have to be able to.

[Nowake]

Forts were used very often "on the battlefield" ... it's not about forts as permanent, but about strongpoints and fortifications constructed only for use in that battle ...

This was often seen ... at Alesia, Actium ...

The japanesse warfare is even more full of this kind of examples ...

So, do you think that they'll add that?

[hoom]

Whoo

Field defences... I hope so http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

And I thought this topic was gonna be about how big the walls are in the screenies...

Cos they are pretty damn big

I wonder if we'll get multiple concentric walls like Constantinople/Babylon etc (I know, wrong time periods but they're the only examples I can think of right now)

Anyone know much about the fortifications around Rome? I assume there were some, but have not seen any pics that I'm aware of...

[Nowake]

Rome was heavily fortified by the later emperors, I have some maps in some of my books, not very clear, anyway ...



And yes, this is one of the points this topic wants to discuss: field defences, but not about manually building of fortifications, as other sugested ...

As I said, these were used by the romans, chinese and japanese in a lot of battles, and making them a feature in RTW is a must, I'd say ... But I think CA has a lot on its mind already http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[some_totalwar_dude]

Quote[/b] (RisingSun @ May 18 2003,23:30)]Perhaps that should have some kind of morae-enhancing bonus? But if you were 30 mile from Rome, you wouldn't see it anyways, because after 13 miles the natural curv of the Earth makes it impossible to see. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
Darn mile system, gimmy metrics

*13x1.6=....to lazy to grab calculater*

ok maby your right, I thought it was some more than 20km from gound level http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[Nowake]

Quite a lot on their mind, not even a quick answer from CA untill now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[some_totalwar_dude]

Let's hope they'r working real real hard on rome. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[RisingSun]

THEY BETTER BE *shakes fist angrily for them not putting a new unit up near on time*

PS- WOOHOO 100 posts for me

[some_totalwar_dude]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

nice

[Nowake]

I agree when are they going to add a new unit, or at least replace the wrong pic for the british woad warriors?

[lonewolf371]

Now that I think of it, it probably will be like Civ 3. Although the cities will look active from a distance, and you can zoom in and they stay the same and show more detail as you zoom in. The map will still have to be divided into provinces, or at the very least, squares to regulate income. To control a province you will probably simply have to control all fortifications and cities within it, and have no hostile armies there. Think of disciples, and replace the towns and cities with ones that look more like Civ 3, but not regulated. It's going to be pretty neat. Possibly like the way EE and AoE designs campaigns with cities.

[Maedhros]

If the terrain is subject to subtle changes brought by you...do cities grow and sprawl?

Could they sprawl into seperate map tiles?

Also if you build a permanent garrisoned fort, will a town appear at its feet after a few seasons or years?

This is how many cities have started throughout time.

[Michael the Great]

Well hose cities sure look great in those screenies

[Sir Robin]

I cannot remember which preview it was in but the scale was stated as five to one. So if the battle maps are 9km by 9km, then they would each represent a 45km by 45km area.

Rhodes, Malta, and other small islands, if they are included on the map, would be drawn to scale.

CA may leave the smaller islands out of the game completely. They left the Baleric Islands out of MTW.

If the naval options are the same as MTW it may be a good move to leave them out.

[Nowake]

No, don't leave them out ...

And Rome I think it'll come on more than one tile, Maedhros