PDA

View Full Version : Is 14th July 1789 tommorow?



Tera
06-06-2003, 22:41
I've been on vacation for some three weeks (holiday, new girlfriend, better life) and it seems many things have happened around here. Why weren't I on vacation in October 2002? Geez, coincedences of life I've seen my name flying everywhere, for some unknown reason often used in abbreviated or encrypted form (T, T*** and so on) as if Tera is some sort of taboo http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif. I was TotalWar.Org administrator for two years and I can feel what Tosa feels. I was still admin during the days of the greatest scandal ever of Total War history ™ - TeraGate - so hell, I couldn't leave my mouth shut in this moment. I would wish to post this in the Watchtower but it wouldn't let me. (your old boss is a junior member http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif )

As you know, I was guilty of infiltrating the Wolves' forum using my ORG powers, but I never had 1 day of ban (actually the accusators got banned) and so far I was always treated with respect and honourability. Frankly, my years here have been kinda constructive and I have always treated people (friends & enemies) with the utmost respect and honourable attitude. This is an interactive game where who you are is more important than what you do. If you're an arrogant benevolent, you won't be liked by the majority and you wouldn't be looked upon with respect. (eg. Magyar Khan). If you're an honourable badass , you won't be liked, but you will probably have more friends and have more respect than the arrogant benevolent. (eg. to an extent, Kocmoc) If you're an arrogant badass, you will be despised by many. (eg. Monsta)

Guess what, they're the three people that got banned. I partially agree with the banning of Magyar and Kocmoc since they actually did something really constructive here. Perhaps I fully agree with the banning of Monsta - whom rankly 95% of the things he did or said were malicious bullcrap. The other 5% were his perpetually unsuccessfully attempts at making tourneys and campaigns. He doesn't have a place in a happy-go-lucky forum such as the Org.

Tosa:

Quote[/b] ]

Kocmoc, Magyar Khan, Monsta, your actings show repeated and structural
incomapatibility with the nature of this forum.


WHO can say that THAT is NOT TRUE? Let's face it, they're organised in ranking of arrogance there. Magyar and Monsta are the monarchs of the fish(y)ermen while Kocmoc is their beloved pupil (he learns their ways as fast as he learnt how to play Total War). And the ORG is 100% AGAINST that kind of attitude If they weren't 3 great columns of the community they would have been LOOONG banned perpetually and lost into oblivion. And I say this for the thousandth time - their 'undercover' actions are far worse than anything that has been said or done in TeraGate, including by yours truly. Magyar was so brave to uncover his sheer arrogance openly when he 'decided' to destroy the CWB some months ago blaming Luna Rossa by calling them 'italian scum' or whatever. The mods, the pro-Tera group (frankly 98% of all those participating), my clanmates and myself weren't banned because 1) franky our actions were nothing, we all know that clan infiltration etc. happened all the time and unfortunately I got trapped in the web as well. 2) Every discussion was done with the utmost honourability and respect for others 3) I apologised 4)I resigned from my post - the whole of the behaviour and attitude conformed with the rules of TotalWar.Org.

Bottom line: These three consistently didn't abide by the rules of the system and logic says that they shouldn't have a place here. Either the ORG system changes or they change. They didn't...banned. Fair. Come on...they were permitted to post here with that attitude for years...better than this it doesn't come. As Andy nicely put it on MSN...they were poking fun more than attacking
but they are still cocks who need to be tought a lesson...

As for the NC banning, it's a bit far-fetched, but it's just a temporary suspension as many remarked. They should be avoided though.

Hence...we either change the ORG structure, or else the people on the verge of getting banned/leaving change their attitude. Period.

Things can't remain in a stagnated status quo...the ORG staff must unite and discuss together with the community. You either let NO politics be discussed or else let politics be discussed in total freedom...names can be mentioned, serious accusations can be made and so on. Thought about a new 'Parliament' forum?

Tosa - you are doing a fine job but in my opinion this banning (and as a consequence weeks of chaos in the ORG) must be stopped...the problem must be tackled. Many of us feel the NEED to discuss politics so either ban / make them leave ALL or let us discuss in freedom. I'm not saying institute an anarchy...I'm just saying that the system might be too much conservative and it needs some liberalism pumped in.

This is my personal opinion on the subject.

Thanks...

Tera.

Big King Sanctaphrax
06-06-2003, 23:09
What exactly was that TeraGate thing? I gues you're the person to ask.

Tera
06-06-2003, 23:35
Noone really wants to re-open a closed wound, King.

But basically I was morally forced to resign from TotalWar Admin since I was found guilty of infiltrating Wolves's private forum using my org powers. All but a few (Monsta, Tinksta, Magy etc) supported me nonetheless. Bans flew left right and centre. I left the community for months. When I came back I apologised and was thankfully forgiven. Politics was banned from the ORG.
T-Gate uncovered the true characters of many members of the community. The happenings of these days are probably an echo of that crisis. Unfortunetely for 'them', those with truly bad intentions always lose in the end. See it happening...I can't hide that I'm feeling a bit...revenged.

Anyway please, I'm not the subject of this post. I posted this to try to create a constructive discussion on the ORG, its system, the community involved, its flaws and the needed reforms...being these in the system, the community or even in the staff. Maybe this should be placed in the Watchtower? Please if this post diverts too much from my original intention, close it Thank you very much.

Tera

Skomatth
06-07-2003, 00:20
Thank you for putting into writing what I've been feeling the last couple days. Amen. Thank you T*** voice of reason.

Papewaio
06-07-2003, 01:15
Quote[/b] (Tera @ June 06 2003,17:35)]Noone really wants to re-open a closed wound, King.

But basically I was morally forced to resign from TotalWar Admin since I was found guilty of infiltrating Wolves's private forum using my org powers. All but a few (Monsta, Tinksta, Magy etc) supported me nonetheless. Bans flew left right and centre. I left the community for months. When I came back I apologised and was thankfully forgiven. Politics was banned from the ORG.
T-Gate uncovered the true characters of many members of the community. The happenings of these days are probably an echo of that crisis. Unfortunetely for 'them', those with truly bad intentions always lose in the end. See it happening...I can't hide that I'm feeling a bit...revenged.

Anyway please, I'm not the subject of this post. I posted this to try to create a constructive discussion on the ORG, its system, the community involved, its flaws and the needed reforms...being these in the system, the community or even in the staff. Maybe this should be placed in the Watchtower? Please if this post diverts too much from my original intention, close it Thank you very much.

Tera
Revenged?

They got banned and some of us backed you to the hilt when we thought you were innocent.

Again we have another round of problems because of this clan rivalry bulldust.

I have read the threads now and it seems the latest round of problems comes down to whinging about who got to help in a beta.

Keep all this crap out of the forums especially those that are not relevant. The Tavern is definitly a no fire zone and now that I have found out what this is all about I what your double post removed from their ASAP.

Again Revenged... don't you think they would have been looking for revenge after being infiltrated.

I feel most sorry for TosaInu-sama he picked up the pieces after T-gate and this is really just another part of that saga. Also comments equating the mods to concentration camp guards and other dictartoral powers is pretty pathetic.

If you guys what to roleplay and whine do it somewhere else. Don't piss on my feet and say it is raining.

The Org is supposed to be neutral ground ie like Highlander. Just consider Tosa the natural forces that balance out what you do if you break the rules.

Politics wasn't banned from the Org. Fair play was reinforced. Politics is a natural occurence when multiple people get together. What was banned was rudeness and contempt for others.

Think of the Org as the dojo and take your dirty shoes off at the door. Sure spar and make witty remarks, just don't go around doing offensive behaviour.

I am an ex-mod because of having to little time to devote to the Org. But I can tell you this Tera, I would have been forced to resign on my own honour if I found out you had used your power in the first place to infiltrate another clan and had remained the Admin. A sincere apology is not just words, it has to have integrity. Integrity is where actions and thoughts meet the words. Words and deeds become one. By saying you are feeling a bit revenged diminishes your apology. If I was still a mod I would have just resigned based on your insincerity if you were still in charge.

Either way it is your actions and the actions of the ones who have been banned that have tainted the Org.

I don't see such battles spilling out of the Dungeon or the Monastery. I think this entire Jousting forum is suspect if it continues to breed discontempt and members who cannot agree to follow the rules that they follow. If Tootee is going to be lumped as a concentration camp warden and resigns because of it I think the Jousting Fields should be closed down.

Tera
06-07-2003, 01:25
Pape,

It's true that my incident started the crises and that I am part of the tainting...my mistake set-off a chain of very bad things for the ORG. Yet I think you're misinterpreting my 'revenge' concept. I was hinting that TGate was just a plot to make me fall into a trap and commit the mistake I did. I apologised for that mistake but no-one ever apologised for the mistakes they did, including the banned ones, who believe me where part and parcel of the whole conflict. It's in that way that I feel 'better' since their real character is leading to their downfall in an honourable community such as the ORG.

I am sorry if I gave the impression that I'm not 'sorry' for everything; I am and a lot and I despise the day I ever talked to our own axis of evil. My promise still stands and as you say Pape, an apology is true when there is integrity in maintaining it. I'm not involving myself in harmful things for the community and I'm actually trying to be constructive...as ex-Admin I just felt the need to express my views on the current situation and I am sincere in my words. I'm sorry again if you feel dissapointed or something, but I didn't mean what you thought I was saying as I would never be so arrogant to place myself as a victim and that's it.

Tera.

FearofFucy
06-07-2003, 01:33
And http://www.fucyuman.com/893blahblah-thumb.giffrom the gang again. The only thing you can do here is thishttp://www.fucyuman.com/893bowdown-thumb.gif

Papewaio
06-07-2003, 01:42
IMDHO

Tera,

I did not expect any better from the others as I was defending you. Nor will I call them an axis of evil.

Nor do I think it started with that incident from before. It was just one more piece of the whole MP infiltration roleplaying. As for roleplaying I never take what Monsta says as serious, too much of crying wolf (sorry even when I am serious and/or angry still have to laugh).

I just think of the Org as neutral ground and it should remain that. A place for all to meet and discuss and learn and befriend.

As for them providing the trap that in itself was not wrong. Being viligent is not wrong. Entrapment though can be. In the end it was your own honour that you besmirched by going down that path as it was mine that was tainted by defending you.

I think the bans should be lifted as that is harsh in of itself considering these are tied up to other things. And I think all the members who participated in the threads that caused this current problem should have their post count dropped to zero and their status to junior patron with all the rights and responsibilities. And vaporise this entire Jousting Forum as it seems to cater to the 20% who cause 80% of the problems. Once all the problem members prove that they can play well with others then think about recreating a Jousting Field.

Knight_Yellow
06-07-2003, 01:44
ummm

wow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

i dont have a fecking clue about whats happened in the last 3 weeks.

and quite frankly i wish to remain clueless.






http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif

Papewaio
06-07-2003, 01:47
Oh and before anyone gets the wrong ideas I am a hypocrite. Those I do respect I hold to a higher ideal. I respect TosaInu-sama and Tera-sama and as such their words and actions have a higher bearing on my reactions and actions.

I expect more from them which can in itself be unfair. I do not expect so much from others and hence do not get disappointed or upset with their actions.

In the end of the day I want to see more of http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif then http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif and more http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif then http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif .

Alrowan
06-07-2003, 02:07
i agree with som aspects of your reasons Tera, but i also believe that as long as they dont go out of thier way abusing people, then they at least should be given a chance here. Now i can vouch for arrogance and what not, but sometimes they would also have valued input. Perhaps They needed more of an open warning, so at least all could see, and know what they have been known to do at times. Anyway, im tired, so i cant be bothered ranting

Kansuke
06-07-2003, 02:09
I think in some circles people would call this baiting. Are you waiting for someone to make a "mistake" here, if they do, it won't be their fault, *cough.

BTW guys the matter was closed, Tottee had cleaned the house up and now you've gone and messed it up all by yourselves.

Lets keep it MP game related from now on shall we.

Kansuke.

Kansuke
06-07-2003, 02:32
Oh Yes, just one further point.

Well to me this seems a little one-sided and unfair as the people who this post is directed at are no longer here to defend themselves, but I guess thats the way some people like it.

Kanuni
06-07-2003, 02:33
I personally don't think any of the recent bans were right. I don't believe neither Mag, Koc, Monsta nor NC deserved a ban.

From a country known by most of you as non democratic I can clearly say that I'm experiencing better freedom of speech in my country and its forums.

Kanuni
06-07-2003, 02:49
1 question after I expressed my opinion.

Do the rules of this forum allow personal attacks to the banned people???? IMO what Tera wrote needs a life long ban if you think Mag, Koc, Monsta and NC deserved their ban. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

I don't think this forum is "administrated" well, but I can't believe how such a double standard is allowed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

tootee
06-07-2003, 03:49
to the recycle-bin. JF irrelevant post and dunno where to redirect.

TosaInu
06-08-2003, 14:27
Tera,

As you know, I was guilty of infiltrating the Wolves' forum using my ORG powers, but I never had 1 day of ban
(actually the accusators got banned) and so far I was always treated with respect and honourability.

..


Frankly, my years here have been kinda constructive and I have always treated people (friends & enemies) with the utmost respect and honourable attitude. This is an interactive game where who you are is more important than what you do.

True and we all thank you for this. True and not true. These forums are a no fire zone, anyone's welcome when they show respect to others in this forum. What happens outside is not my business.


If you're an arrogant benevolent, you won't be liked by the majority and you wouldn't be looked upon with respect.
(eg. Magyar Khan). If you're an honourable badass , you won't be liked, but you will probably have more friends and have more respect than the arrogant benevolent. (eg. to an extent, Kocmoc) If you're an arrogant badass, you will be despised by many. (eg. Monsta) WHO can say that THAT is NOT TRUE? Let's face it, they're organised in ranking of arrogance there. Magyar and Monsta are the monarchs of the
fish(y)ermen while Kocmoc is their beloved pupil (he learns their ways as fast as he learnt how to play Total War). And the ORG is 100% AGAINST that kind of attitude

True, very true. Their ACT isn't right in these forums. These forums are a no fire zone. It certainly will be hard to participate in the discussions here when others know better, there will be baiting and counterbaiting to drag the you out of your ACT (which may be spotted by staff and will be corrected).
If you are not 'org compatible' outside, you'll need a very good poker face here (but then again, you're probably a nice guy here and not nice there). Hypocrite?
Yes likely, but this is a no fire zone and a forum for all.
Fun together with other members is ok, making fun at others or plain bothering them is not ok.

If they weren't 3 great columns of the community they would have been LOOONG banned perpetually and lost into
oblivion. And I say this for the thousandth time - their 'undercover' actions are far worse than anything that has been said or done in TeraGate, including by yours truly. Magyar was so brave to uncover his sheer arrogance openly when he 'decided' to destroy the CWB some months ago
blaming Luna Rossa by calling them 'italian scum' or whatever.

Irrelevant. No fire zone, this doesn't belong here.

Guess what, they're the three people that got banned. I partially agree with the banning of Magyar and Kocmoc since they actually did something really constructive here. Perhaps I fully agree with the banning of Monsta - whom rankly 95% of the things he did or said were malicious bullcrap. The other 5% were his perpetually unsuccessfully attempts at making tourneys and campaigns.
He doesn't have a place in a happy-go-lucky forum such as the Org.

..

I actually don't like what your post is suggesting. The staff did not know anything about your actions, other than
the proof presented by the accusators (chatlogs, screendumps -both fakeble and could thus not be accepted as proof, and confusing/irrelevant posts that only served to heat the argument- the stuff we also see now).

The only crime we saw was a raving mob.
Your confession at that time would have resulted in entire different actions. Instead we've had the entire repertoire of reasoning, closing, editing and 'timeouts'.
Any idea how many fine people were sucked into this, how many energy was wasted?
You didn't inform any of the other administrators. You left, leaving the rest of the staff with an enraged mob.

..

You, nor anyone else can imagine what damage has been done here. I'm not just talking about broken trust.
And about what? Nothing

Do you remember the condition on which you could return? Low profile. You just broke it again and are rubbing salt into wounds.


Tera, you're changing the story and you're breaking the NO FIRE ZONE stuff here, an ex-admin should know.

2 weeks and convince me you should return.


SP, MP, Comp MP, Assassins, Spies, Shinobies, modders, programmers and lurkers are all welcome here. But,

The Guild expects its patrons to remain civil even in the face of disagreements. Any kind of "flaming", slurs or insults adressed to an individual or a group is extremely inappropriate. Please respect etiquette at all times.
You play by the rules.