Exactly how bad are you?

[Portuguese Rebel]

We all have seen threads that state something like i rule in this game or i own this game or the lastest im a HARDCORE player.

Well now its time do the opposite. Admit and tell here your worst defeat/s.

Mine was right in the beguining when i got the game. As a shogun vet i plunged right in the fray... never touched the manual at all. I had built a fair amount of peasants wich i thought were the equivalents of yari ashigarus (for those who don't know, these guys were good against most cavalry). So with my peasants ready and a bunch of archers i atacked the spanish. In the meantime i did not payed attention to vices (these weren't in shogun) and the general had a coward vice (big moral penalty). And there i went... ready as hell (so i thought) for my first MTW battle...

the spanish had a bunch of jinetes and i thought no biggy, my ashigarus will cream them since i have 2 to 1 in unit numbers.

The jinetes started skirmishing and then resorted to melee, at wich point i was glad: Ahaha now you are mine. then i saw my peasants get munched bad and the red flags started showing up.

what the hell... then my peasants all routed and the archers followed pronto... those jinetes chased and killed some 500 peasants and i got some lousy 14 jinetes.

My first thought after that disaster: where did i put the manual...

Don't let me expose my shame alone http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Share your shame with the community and you will feel better http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Monk]

Constantinople in about 1203, my HRE was vast and endless. many a foe had been crushed under the Might of my armies untill i came into contact with the Byzantine empire, their Infantry and asorted calvary managed to take apart my troops at every turn untill i sailed my vets in from egypt. i outnumbered the Byzantine force atleast 2 to 1 and thought no problem, my guys are battle vets (high valor) and i can crush them.

however little did i realize that that the Byz force was just as good and skilled. the end result wasnt pretty, over 1000 dead and 200 captured all because i underestimated the Varangian guards. the Byz soon counter attacked causing the eastern half of my empire to either fall to their hands or rise up in rebellion, shorlty afterward the mongols arrived and plowed through the novgorods and the rebels, but they would not stop untill they had half of my northern empire. about 2 years later the english and french (both of whome i had defeated in the past) reapeared and crushed my inexperianced troops in the west taking that potion of the empire. needless to say that one single defeat in constantinople caused a chain reaction that destroyed my empire... by the time the dust cleared in 1243 i only held North africa and my King was a star 1 (the youngest son who escaped the carnage)

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] ]about 2 years later the english and french (both of whome i had defeated in the past) reapeared and crushed my inexperianced troops in the west taking that potion of the empire. needless to say that one single defeat in constantinople caused a chain reaction that destroyed my empire...

You got to love it...hehehe

[Odinn]

I'm so bad that my army on 1,000 men can flee from 100 enemies.

[FesterShinetop]

Well... there are too many I'm afraid... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif I am not very good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif so I am used to huge armies fleeing the battlefield; my own armies that is... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[hrvojej]

Can't really say what was the single worst defeat, but a couple of days ago I had what must have been the worst turn so far. I'm Egypt, fighting Almohads in Valencia and Mongols in Volhynia. Both are their last stands.
First one is Almos. I attack with my crack troops who have beaten both Almohads and Spanish, lead by a 9-star, all units valuor 6 and similar, and khalifah has 2-stars. With fair amount of confidence, I start the battle. It turns out to be one of those hilly maps that have a net of small woods all over them. Well, it turned out that Almohad army were also crack troops, who although beaten, kept on gaining valour, veterans were combined with veterans, etc., and to my surprise they charge just before I managed to establish a line. The battle breaks into several small ones, each centered around one unit of AUM, and they apparently drift towards the woods, where the militiamen cheerfully slaughter my cavalry and muwahids. In short, my general fought t death against a valour 6 AUM, and when he died, everything went to hell. Crack army one obliterated.
After that, the Mongols. I'm also fielding a crack army that defeated them when they first appeared while being outnumbered 4:1, conquered the steppes, and driven them into a corner. My other 9-star general is leading them, and khan has 4 stars. First wave goes smoothly, they don't have many cavalry left, yet princes and khan manage to kill a fair share before they go down. All that remains are several units of mongol foot warriors in one forest. I surround the forest, attack from all sides with ghazis, abyssinians, arab infantry, followed by everything else I had. Attacked from all sides, outnumbered and without a general (they are disciplined, but still), they manage to rout my entire army save the general, who was in turn exhausted and couldn't get out of the woods in time. He dies, the remnants of a once-proud army flee for their lives, the day is lost.
So, in a single turn, I've lost both of my 9-star generals, my most trusted veteran armies, and a fair share of pride. Luckily I was Egypt, in other words rolling in cash, so that didn't hurt me as much as it could. Almohads were slaughtered two turns later, and the Mongol rebels bribed, but at that point I was just sitting there for several minutes trying to get a grasp on what just happened. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mamushi]

Well, it all started when I put the disk in the drive.....actually,my force of Royal bodyguards,having been beaten up fairly badly,encountered a fresh group of peasants, they actually routed my RB's ,they ran back thru my Huscarls,and well the chain reaction was ugly to behold,I did not think that many troops could haul a$$ off the field at once...just glad I am not the only one... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[swifticus]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
How to Begin?
My first multiplayer game on line, I chose a German army picked my troops with care gave them the best weapons and armour a man can

3 v 3 me gallantly advancing on the left flank my allies urging their troops on, we are charging in.. wots this my brave germans slow then stop and then ROUT before making contact with the enemy lol http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

My allies seeing the left flank rout promptly do the same GAME OVER

I later learnt tha valour is quite useful to buy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[The_Emperor]

My greatest defeat was at the hands of the Byzantine Empire as the Almohads.

They attacked my full stack army with a 9 star Expert attacker general... and all i had was a piddly little 4 star in command of 900 men.

My army was routed with ease and soon I was pushed back along north Africa. Man they were tough

[Old Bald Guy]

Way too many times to remember. Once, I was firmly emplaced on a hill, CMAAs and FMAAs, arbs and pavs, rock solid defense, right? Not to the GH cavalry. They rolled me up like a cheap Persian rug. I'm sitting here with my mouth hanging open as the entire row of icons waved white flags, peeing their armor and screaming like little girls as they fled. The only GH troops to die were the ones who fell off their horses from laughing too hard to ride. The closing screen was incredible. The only thing keeping the whole rank from displaying minuses for valor was the AI felt sorry for me.

My current GA game as Spain, I didn't realize losing Crusades cost so much in influence, piety and loyalty. I thought I'd send them against the Almos, then the Egyptians, and let those guys fight my way across Africa. Wrong I got a Civil War, and before I could even get back all the provinces which had turned rebel, I got hit with ANOTHER civil war, and all was lost.

Man, I suck. I haven't even got the excuse I didn't read the manual. I just plain suck. You'd think I was trained at the Iraqui West Point. My dog won't watch me play. My cat looks upon me in disgust. My wife thought she married Schwarzkopf and instead got DUMBKOPF. I'm more pathetic than a former Massachusetts governor running for President driving around a field in a tank. It's sad.

What a lousy topic. I hope you're happy, man.

[Balamir]

hhehe nice topic, really. To be honest, I didnt take very serious losses on the campaign mode. Maybe because I didnt try hard difficulty. I even started tearing out my hair if my ratio is worse than 2:1 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . Anyways, I guess my worst battering was on multiplayer. I didnt have a good start on mp. If I remember correctly my first victory was in my 9th game. Another 8 losses or something after that victory too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif . Still those werent so frustrating.I really had lots of losses, but cant really remember many. For eg. I had a defeat of 211 kills and 900+ losses. One time a turkish army consisting of 10 units that can both shoot and fight killed me. I dont think I managed to get three digits on that one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif


Apart from the fact that I changed my name for 6-7 times, I was a stable member of the multiplayer. Too bad its empty now.

[Erik Blackbeard]

In my first game I decided to rule the mighty HRE. After a while of playing I chose to take those mangy Danes and make them part of my glorious empire. I marched 1500 units (mostly urban militia and spearmen) to Denmark. Battle begun and I found myself fighting 600 vikings and 80 Royal Knights that charged from uphill. Vikings slaughtered most of my spearmen 'couse i didn't react fast enough http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif and Knights were able to flank my Militia. needless to say I lost. I totally underestimated those vikings...

[DemonArchangel]

My worst defeat....

I was the Russians and my opponent was the Golden. The map was a desert map. I had an army of primarily Steppe Cavalry, Steppe Heavy Cavalry, Druzhinas and Boyars. Well, unfortunately, i had too many cavalry that couldn't catch up with the mongol horse archers, and the Mongol Heavy Cavalry ripped apart my steppe cavalry, before hitting me in the flanks and back, while the mongol horse archers darted back and forth, discharging volleys of arrows that ripped my men to pieces. My army actually held and routed some of their units, but then, their reinforcements came and it was all over.

[Pablo Sanchez]

No offense to anyone involved, but this thread makes me feel better because it turns out I'm merely average at MTW (instead of awful http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif).

The worst mistake I ever made was probably the game as the Almohads when I took Spain and France and thought, hey, the HRE can't be that tough. Little did I know that the Germans controlled the entire Eastern Half of the map. I should have guessed when there were only three nations on the bottom of the screen during the computer move phase (HRE, Egyptians with only Egypt, English) That was the game when I learned the importance of a good network of spies and trade ships the hard way http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[insolent1]

I must have had to much to drink last night becuase to day when I was defending Moldavia as the Turks against the Bavarians(interregnum mod witha few changes). I had about 800 men v there 3000+. My generals unit was a 10 valour JHI with +3 to weapon & armour, I also had 4 demi cannons which i had been using to lower enemy morale. In my hungover state i placed my generals units slightly in front of one of teh demi cannons........hhhmmm my generals under fire....hold on hes dead along with 20 men of his unit. I had to laugh the demi cannon exploded killing my general & a lot of his irreplaceable unit

[ichi]

I am the center of a 3v3. Real slugfest. Several minutes into the fight, my allies shore up my flanks, the enemy is fully engaged.

Only the Generals sit back, watching from a few meters away.

Many units are at half strength or less, a few starting to waver.

I decide the redirect my pavs to a thick patch of knights. Select the pavs (or so I thought) and direct them to fire at a Chiv Knight unit.

Except that I have selected all of my units by accident. Confused, all of my men try to do as I have ordered, and when they turn to attack the group of knights they are slaughtered by the units they have been fighting, causing immediate mass rout, chain routing my allies.

D'oh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

ichi

[Brutal DLX]

Oh boy, such a misclick in MP is deadly... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
(in SP you could hit Pause http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

I remember way back fighting the Almohads once in Aragon I think, as the French. I thought I had it under control, because other than their AUM they had inferior troops, but after the battle was joined, my flanking cavalry lost to theirs, to my great amazement, and once their cav go behind my lines the rout was inevitable.
I should have won that battle as my cav was superior, but only after the battle I found that the enemy general was 9 stars, and mine just 2. That's when I fully realised the importance of good generals.

[Magraev]

Honestly I run from battles I'm not fairly confident about. I don't play at the highest difficulty levels so I'm usually more concerned with keeping casualties down than with if I win or lose.

I had an embarrasment early as the turks recently, when I was invaded by a byz force led by a 2-star generals byz infantry. In the battle the byz inf blazed ahead of his other troops, and I saw the opportunity to rout him, so I charged with 2 urban militia and a gazi only to have them all rout after heavy losses - giving very few losses themselves. I was thrown off the map and only after the battle I learned that the byz general had a killer instinct, was proud and was a great warrior. That one unit singlehandedly defeated 300 of my proud turks - his other units never made it to the battle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

One of the disadvantages of having reverted to 1.1 - I can't see the enemy troops valor before the battle.

[frogbeastegg]

Experiences of a Shogun vet: or how MTW is not the same as shoggy even if it is in the same series.

Running home from EB at 9:30 am on the day of release clutching a copy of MTW in my hands I had no idea what lay in wait. After installing and skimming through the manual I selected the English, why not play as the home team I thought. Longbowmen, bill men and knights, just perfect. I reached the campaign map screen. Bribe the Welsh rebels, then the Scots, after that kill the French and tech up. A campaign strategy that would see me through the first few years with no problem (or so I thought)After all this game can't be so different to shogun that using your old tactics will get you killed, right?

The welsh get bribed easily, followed by the Scots. No need for all these small armies all over the place I cried quickly bundling them together and sending them to Flanders. I start to build up my infrastructure thinking that it won't take too long to reach the good units. I click end turn and what happens? Rebellions in Scotland, Wales and Northumbria that's what. Not good I think, why did that happen, it's not like you need to garrison safe provinces is it? Still my invasion of Flanders went OK but what's this? the Pope says I'm excommunicated? Ah so what, it can't be that important can it?

My king and his reserves crush the Welsh and Northumbrian rebels and my army is still hanging on to Flanders. Its been about 15 years and I'm wondering why everything is so slow to build. I'm still using basic units, where are all the knights? To make matters worse I'm beginning to run low on cash. The best way to quick fix cash flow problems is to conquer a rich province nearby so I bung together an army of spearmen and archers and march on Ile de France. This time I fight the battle myself instead of auto resolving.

The archers open fire and I expect heavy enemy casualties. Barely a scratch. Very puzzling. So I send in the spearmen expecting a reasonable performance out of them, after all they are just Yari samurai by a different name right? Err no not really. Despite having the terrain advantage and following Sun Tzu's wisdom I got pasted by a handful of these new fangled men at arms units and a solitary royal cavalry. Strange I think again as I watch my men run like mice chased by a particularly nasty cat, there's something wrong here.

Back at the main map I get a message telling me that Spain has launched a crusade at me. What? I'm not a Muslim they can't do that surely Famous last words. The Spanish crusade smashed my armies on the continent (why? spearmen are good against cavalry and anyway whats with all these weird crusader units, where did they come from?) Rebellion once again erupts across my British holdings as I withdraw all my men to Wessex to make one giant army lead by my king (why are they rebelling? I've go border forts, it can't be that I need a garrison permanently)

Looking at my king he has this list of Vices and virtues and one of them is 'good runner'. Odd I think, it must add to his speed or something. I'm sure you can guess what happened when the crusade hit my last army. Yep everyone ran without even fighting. Game over.

So I read the manual again in depth and tried a custom battle. The large number of units to choose from is over whelming and I found that everything was different to Shogun.
Archers couldn't hit a barn broadside on.
Spearmen can't fight for anything.
Swordsmen are odd,they don't seem to be like warriormonks.
Knights are less than impressive.
Light cavalry=what?
horse archers are still in need of baby sitting
gunpowder is crap, what in heck happened?
Peasants, didn't they used to be helpful?
Whats the point of polearms?
Whats with all this disciplined and elite stuff?

The next day I went and bought the strategy guide, read it twice and never looked back. Its been ages since I lost a battle and I'm now handing out advice to people. My face when I first played went something like this:
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
Now its like this :
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

I anticipate a similar experience with Rome:TW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Balamir]

Ehehe an entertaining post really. Mostly the face change thing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif . What I found out was SP fights is nothing, but nothing, , in the MP. I was like hehhe let them get kicked on their arses, come on bring it on hiaarrggg and after a few battles hey what the ....?? but really, its multiplayer where real strategy is counted because both armies have the opportunity to develop on the same resources. Same amount of florins, unlike the SP where always one army is the poor low resourced hero and the other is the rich bastard. I really learned a lot from the multiplayer and now singleplayer battles dont satisfy me at all. Watch for me on Rome babe
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

j/k http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

lol, thats a great post frog.

2 Situations spring to mind for me.

My 1st campaign in VI,the saxons attack me, the Mercians. The 1st battle I come up against an army of Saxon Huscarles, which I hadn't bothered developing yet...I got slaughtered big style. Eventually I managed to reverse the Saxon tide, but it took several defeats and lots of bloody victories.

The other one is in my current Almohad campaign, I launched an attack on Ireland with a 4 star General and 500 Ghulam Cav, Ghazis, Nubian spearmen against 400 Gallowglass and Kerns. Hehe, lambs to the sluaghter I'm thinking. As I close with the Irish, a javelin kills my general. Suddenly all my units start wavering and then the Gallowglass crash into my units...it took about 5 seconds before the rout set in. Only 100 men made it back to their ships alive. I was not a happy Caliph at my mens cowardly performance
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Still, its good to have your butt whipped by the AI every now and then http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Satyr]

Very entertaining reading.

My first VI battle also. I am playing as the Scots (couldn't wait to play as the old alma mater) and I have about 800 troops, mostly celtic warriors and spears and 2 companies of archers. The Vikings invade I see 260 men with a couple units of Berserkers. Ah, I have seen their like before, they must be like Hashinin, I don't need to worry. Well, the Berserkers single handedly slaughter my Celtic Warriors and only lose 7 men. Meanwhile I send my spears over to flank but the Berserkers run out of the pile and take off after my archers. I think, cool, they will get skirmished to death. NO The little stinkers chase down my archers and slaughter both companies in a few minutes. Meanwhile, those stupid Carls have killed the rest of my troops. Time to do some research or play as the Vikings myself.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] ]Looking at my king he has this list of Vices and virtues and one of them is 'good runner'. Odd I think, it must add to his speed or something.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

It actually makes sense... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[frogbeastegg]

Thank you, my adoring fans http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

My worst experience in VI is quite similar to Mary's. Two units of Viking huscarles invade my province so I send my Mercian army of over 800 to fight them. Easy I think. I think I'll just leave it at 1 mixed army of spears, archers and cavalry + 1 small group of Viking huscarles = total slaughter of my army. Why did I think that several years of Total war experience combined with a numerical advantage of over 5-1 would be enough to win? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

After this I defected to the Vikings and have completed two campaigns. They are definitely my favourite faction in VI.

Apart from this VI has been quite tame. My introduction to shogun at launch in 2000, now that's a funny story......(if you want to know ask, I don't want to bore people)

[Crash]

Why do I take along a unit of arbalesters whom I always order to shoot at the enemy general? The AI taught me that, but not on purpose.

The first time I met an enemy with arbalesters, my plan was to lure their army into a trap, using my general as bait. Remember Dances With Wolves when Kevin Costner charges the Confederate army singlehanded, and escapes scott free? Well, I figured my general on horseback could run up to the enemy line and run away, and lead them into my trap. He had good armor so I wasn't worried about archers.

You can guess what happened - the arbalesters killed my 5 star general on their first volley. Aaagh The enemy charged, and my army routed, end of battle.

But since then I've killed several generals and monarchs with arbalesters. Pavise arbalesters are great for turning the tide of battle by mowing down the opponents elite units and generals.

[Satyr]

Come on frosty, be a good egg, not a beastly one, and tell us all about your shogun beginnings. As I have recently acquired Shogun I would like to know what sorts of things to 'not do'.

[NinjaX]

lol i got totally slaughterd the first time i played mtw, like 10 battles in a row, didnt have any cash, bad units, bad valor, rebellions, you name it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Brutal DLX]

Quote[/b] (Mary, Queen of Scots @ June 23 2003,23:58)]Come on frosty, be a good egg, not a beastly one, and tell us all about your shogun beginnings. As I have recently acquired Shogun I would like to know what sorts of things to 'not do'.
Not frosty, but I've played Shogun too, so:
Don't do the frontal banzai charge with cav or anything into a phalanx of musketeers. Gunpowder units are deadly in Shogun, but luckily they don't appear early on. Aside of that there's less units so it's very easy to find out what a unit is good or bad against. And Samurai archers are lethal. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
On the campaign map, always try to get a secure single front line, as there's almost never any naval invasion (need port and strategic agent in destination province to invade).
Oh, and never, I repeat never, trust anybody. Alliances can turn to bitter rivalries within one season.

[antek]

worst defeat (I don't think anyone could win that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) - Mongol Invasion, my Daimyo (11 men) protecting the last province against about 900 bloodthirsty Mongols. lol http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[frogbeastegg]

Frogbeastegg: An epic tale of a young frogs quest for glory and knowledge.

Many years ago in the land of strange weather a young frog was seeking to become a master of strategy. The frog had studied under many masters including the master Alpha Centari and at the famous school of Age of Empires. But none of these masters could satisfy frogs desire for knowledge. As the frog wandered once again in search of a master she met a strange man under a tree. Upon asking his name she was told

I am battle trainer. A demo of the great school of Shogun: Total War. I can teach you what you wish to know.

The young frog was curious and asked what the school of shogun was like as she had never heard of it before.

It is a new school introduced by a mysterious stranger who is only known as CA. CA has created new teachings the like of which has never been seen upon this earth. Shogun teaches real time battles combined with turn based strategy, complete control of every aspect of your clan, hundreds of units battling at once using realistic principles based on the legendary Sun Tzu.

This greatly interested the young frog and she asked to become a student of Shogun. Battle trainer replied thusly

To become a student of shogun is not an easy task. You will learn to do things you thought impossible. You must learn to understand the land, the weather, ancient samurai equipment and practise. You will learn to understand a soldiers heart. But there is a price - once you enter the school there is no going back. All other schools of strategy will seem as mud beneath your feet, you will only play Total War games.

The frog thought this sounded strange but she was still determined to enter the school. In her first lessons with master Battle Trainer young frog learned that height is the most valuable feature of any battlefield. She learned that archers could both shoot and enter melee combat by use of the 'ALT' key. She learned to understand her men's feelings and physical state. The final and hardest lesson was to understand a small skirmish between two identical and evenly matched armies. In this challenge the frog manoeuvred her spears to meet the enemy cavalry, her archers to shoot the enemy spears and her cavalry to destroy the opposing archers. The victory was great and the young frog could not wait to learn more. But master Battle Trainer said

No more can I teach you for this is the limit of my programming. To learn more you must study under my master the great Full Game.

And so the young frog set out to the great EB in town and there purchased the Shogun Total War and got the Prima strategy guide free. Well it was the day of release and therefore a matter of great rejoicing. After reading the books her new master presented her with frog began learning the Way of Shogun. And it was not easy.

The great master began with the same lessons that his disciple had and once again the frog completed them. The over confidant frog them requested to try the full campaign game as her battle knowledge was great. The master considered this for many minutes before agreeing that she had much to learn that only the campaign could teach. This is how the first true lesson began: the lesson of Hojo.

Frog chose clan Hojo for her first game as they were purple and had the Triforce as their logo (the frog was deeply in love with Zelda: Ocarina of Time which she still calls the best game ever today). Frog surveyed her domains and ordered that construction begin on castles in all provinces. New units of archers were added to the build list and the frog was well pleased as she clicked 'end turn'. Frog them watched in horror as the Takeda invaded Musashi (But that's a rush attack, how cheap the frog was heard to cry). As the battle began the frog lined up her archers on her side of the bridge and waited. The enemy came in force with much cavalry and charged the bridge. While the archers shot bravely and the single unit of spearmen charged the enemy continued to forge ahead until the frogs army shattered and fled like children. Frog was heard to say

Samurai Not likely. Cowards Get back here before I kill the lot of you. What happened to dieing gloriously in battle, don't the samurai say death before dishonour.

At this point master Full Game stepped in and said

It is worthless to die in a pointless battle. Victory must be provided by the general before the men will commit to dieing on the field. When victory is invisible even the best samurai does not consider it a dishonour to run. Therefore make sure that you have the correct numbers and types of troops in each army to handle all opponents and situations. When the men see that they can win they will fight much harder. When they are out numbered two to one they become worried with a penalty to morale.

And so the young frog tried to continue with the campaign but found that money was gained only one out of four turns and only one army/building could be constructed at a time in a province. And this puzzled the frog as all other schools of strategy gave you money at each turn. The master explained

Wealth is measured in koku, the amount of rice needed to feed a man for one year. Rice comes only with the autumn harvest. In other schools a single peasant may build a mighty castle in only minutes but in our school thousands of peasants will labour for four seasons to produce a castle. This is the way of Realism.

And so the young frog gave up on the campaign and returned to the custom battle. She devoted herself to learning as much as she could of this one aspect of Total War. The work took many weeks and the frog learned much. There was much more to unit relationships than spears beat cavalry beat archers beat spears. Warrior monks would beat anything else in hand to hand but were vulnerable to missiles. No Datchi were cheaper warrior monks with similar uses and weaknesses. Heavy cavalry could beat spears if they charged them from behind and stood a reasonable chance against warrior monks in battle. Naginata were the ultimate in defence but could not kill quickly. Honour was the most valuable commodity on the field of battle as it gave +1 attack +1 defence +2 morale for each point. However several units still eluded frog. What was the point of ashigaru, guns. yari cavalry and cavalry archers? Each of these units was unable to perform in a useful manor and frog still winced when she remembered the charge of three units of yari samurai in a great battle. They had galloped quickly at the enemy, halted just in front of them before turning tail and fleeing the field before combat began. These units were therefore classified as useless.

The frog also studied Japanese during these long weeks as her new master often confused her with terms like yari, naginata, shogun, mon, koku and Daimyo. And as the weeks passed frog found she could understand her master with ease.

Then one morning master Full Game suggested that frog was now ready to play a true campaign game. This time the frog considered clan bonuses, province wealth and position, strategic positioning and easy of play before choosing the Shimazu clan. Frog immediately began producing yari and archers in equal quantities before crushing the Imagawa foothold on her island inside of 6 turns. She was heard to say Eat that at this moment of victory. The Mori clan had an alliance with the Shimazu but displayed that they had no honour when they broke it and attacked Nagato forcing frog to withdraw her small garrison without battle. This was the Lesson of Honour

Honour is everything to a samurai but a Daimyo will not hesitate to break an alliance and his word if he sees a chance for gain. Honour exists in name only with only a few holding to it. Beware of these men as they will commit sepuku if they loose a battle depriving you of an able commander.

And frog learned this lesson well. She built up her farmlands in provinces with more than 200 koku income and extended her castles into mighty fortresses capable of producing the best troops. Then she struck at the rebel island to the east capturing it in 4 turns. The Mori had crushed the Takeda and met up with frog on the isle of Awaji. And frog did say

what goes around comes around

And she destroyed the Mori giving her control of a quarter of Japan.By this time the Hojo had taken the rest of Japan and so frog fought them for control, slowly driving them back until one fateful battle. The Hojo had built many guns and the day of battle was fine with fair weather. The landscape of the field was quite flat and the frog found that the guns were highly effective as they destroyed a significant part of her army. Enlightenment struck

To use guns you should place them in three rows. In this way the front rank will fire and then retire to the back to reload. This increases the speed of fire. Flat ground is the ally of guns ad they cannot fire in arcs like bows nor can they aim very high or very low. Provide a row of gunners in front of your army and they will shoot at the enemy when they close causing many casualties and much fear. If the enemy get too close charge your infantry at them while pulling your guns back. Rain is the enemy of guns. A single drop will decrease their firing rate and accuracy. A down pour will make them useless.

The final battle was drawing close and frog had powerful armies of high honour troops with the best upgrades. The Hojo had massive armies vastly outnumbering her but they were made of lesser units so this was not a problem. The final battle took place on a mountain in a thunderstorm. Fighting raged for two hours and in the end more than 10,000 brave warriors lay dead. Frog had won.

But the learning did not stop there for frog found a place called 'the org' in the back of PC Gamer (UK) magazine and she did visit with much curiosity. There she found tactics for using yari cavalry and peasants which were effective but she still did not favour these units. Cavalry archers may be effective for some but the frog always found that they required baby sitting and so they also found no favour.

The frog also completed many other campaigns and found new strategies. She tried the Geisha unit and found the cutscenes to be hilarious, especially the one where the geisha played a 'guitar' for a while before smashing the victim over the head with it.

After many years of training the now old master Full Game died killed by the devious Microsoft Direct X 9 which caused him to emit screeching noises and flicker badly. And young frog found that master Battle Trainer was right, all other schools of strategy were as the gibbering of idiots. However the great CA introduced a new school of strategy based on the Shogun style, they called it Medieval: Total War and the frog did study under this school to. The frog still mourns the passing of master Full Game and wishes she had not been challenged to a game of Age of Empire II by her boyfriend.

(This took two hours to type I hope its not too boring. I will post the funny bits seperately as they kind of spoiled the epic story)

[A.Saturnus]

Very well done. Great story

[Dîn-Heru]

Awesome, my fair Lady, a splendid story.
*bows*

[Maelstrom]

You are all a bunch of amateurs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif Most have you have even got reasonable excuses for being humiliated. This is how to do it properly…

I was playing the HRE (I have been playing the game for about 10 months now), and found myself defending a bridge (on a 2 bridge map) against the Almos. I had a good mix of units, and a 2-1 numerical advantage in my favour.

This adds up to victory, and a casualty ratio of about 10-1 in my favour, right? – That’s what I thought….

I set up in the conventional manner, spears to the front plugging the bridge, arbs on the flanks raking the bridge and infantry behind ready to plug the gaps. As the Almos approached, I sent my cavalry (1 x Teutonic Knights, 1 x Feudal Cavalry and 2 x Mounted Sergeants) along to the other bridge to swing around the back and catch him in the rear. The Almos spot this, and move one unit of AUM to intercept. I set my cavalry off at a run to get across the bridge before they can plug it.

This is where it all started to go pear shaped. At this point I get distracted by the main bridge, where the main rush is just starting. When I look back, my cavalry are in trouble – The AUM got to the bridge first and are giving them a hard time, though they do appear to be being pushed back. The Almo general, seeing this, trots across with his 60 Gulam bodyguards, and hits my cavalry in the flank. I struggle to reorganise my cavalry, but to no avail. They are decimated and rout.

Hang on though, wasn’t I supposed to be doing something here? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif – OHMIGOD, THE BRIDGE

Whilst distracted (a second time), the Almos have cut my spears apart and are starting to break though. My arbs have been whittled down by counter-fire from the opposite bank (which, again, I had not been paying attention to) and are now running, pursued by the first trickle of Almo units coming off the bridge. As I throw everything into the breach to try and close it, I notice out of the corner of my eye the Almo general calmly strolling across the 2nd bridge.

Hah http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif I am not going to let him distract me this time. So I leave him be – I am not sure I have anything spare or capable of taking him on at the moment anyway. I need to wait for my reinforcements. They should be able to deal with him.

So the battle around the mouth of the bridge rages on. Having lost my missile units, I am just about holding my own, though my units are tiring badly and mostly down to way less than half strength. I badly need those reinforcements – where the hell are they?

Ah – there they are – at the back of the map being shredded piecemeal as they come on by that Almo general I ignored earlier… http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

It is only a matter of time now. My units around the bridge break and begin to stream back towards the rear – where they are further depleted by the Almo general. The few remaining units I have in reserve are peasants and fanatics, who I set to swarm the Almo general. Though they take two thirds of his bodyguard, it is not enough and they, too, rout.

It’s all over bar the counting. The kill ratio is 3-1 in the Almos favour.

I lost to the AI whilst defending a bridge with 2-1 odds in my favour. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif I think I should have it engraved on my tombstone.

Beat that if you can

[Crash]

Beautiful post, Froggy, brought tears to my eyes as I reminisced on my STW days http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

Makes me glad that I joined the Guild http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[frogbeastegg]

Maelstrom-I'm glad I can't beat that You are truly the master of hopelessness http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

OK as promised here are the 'funny' bits of my early Shogun days. (Now I've rested my fingers and been distracted by the warrior hall topic)

Well there was the time when I set up a massive missile based army to crush an enemy in a custom battle. The enemy came into range and no one started shooting. They came closer and still no flying death. Then the enemy reached my lines and started to massacre my army. I'd only gone and hit the hotkey for fire at will turning it off http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Or how about the time I put some archers on a really steep slope without realising that they couldn't fire down such a steep angle. I gave the enemy a huge safe zone to advance through. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/redface.gif

And there was the time I send my 8 star general, who was a heavy cavalry unit, to kill some routing ashigaru. The general charged them head on and got slaughtered by some fleeing peasants. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Thank god they removed the charge bonus from routing units in the patch.

Oh and my attempts to test out the gun units met with disaster after disaster. Every battle I took them into was raining no matter the time of year. Then when I finally got a dry battle after many attempts I found that ordering a unit to shoot at a specific target often caused it to move so it was exposed. Also putting them in anything less than 3 rows caused them to shoot one massive and inaccurate volley before being killed. I really hated gunners at first. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

How about the time I converted to Christianity and encountered some warrior monks. The documentation said that warrior monks didn't cause fear and were much less effective against Christian armies. Like a fool I believed this. My army got mown down as I was missing my own warrior monks (which I could no longer build) and the only suitable units for monk killing were a couple of units of low honour heavy cavalry. Ooops. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

I mustn't forget the time I hid some yari samurai in trees to fight cavalry believing this would help them win. I didn't know that yari got a penalty when in forests just like spears in MTW. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

I suppose the time I got addicted to geisha counts. I loved the cut scenes so much I assassinated everything in sight and ended up fighting a Japan full of very angry and united rebels. Being out numbered by around 50 provinces is not fun. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

In the Mongol Invasion addon I charged a unit of thunder bombers head on with cavalry thinking that they would get close fast enough to avoid injury. Tell that to the half of the unit that got blow to hell. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

Also in MI was the first time I used the javelin units. I got them to throw at the enemy but a unit of my own was in the way and got badly mauled. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

I think I'll stop there, I'm in danger of looking like a strategic prat instead of a strategic genius. I would like to point out that I am much better these days and haven't had a disaster in ages so it is safe to take any advice I hand out. No really I'm not that bad....

Oh and thanks for all the praise http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[Ser Clegane]

I am really sorry to say this, Maelstrom ... but I nearly wet my pants when I read the story of your mishap http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

... at least you seem to be a good sport and refrain from pausing the game in such situations (unlike myself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif )

[Sam Adams]

I had a pretty powerful army. Good general. At least 10 units of varangians, all rather upgraded and good valour. About 1000 men. This is an army that had just repusled an enemy army of 6000 with such ease I thought they could do anything. They would fight and win against overwealming odds uphill, over bridges, against heavy cav, killing dozens for every man they lost.

So I figure this stack and a half of almos should be no problem. Urban militia? pfffft. Nothing can stand against this army. My VG have NEVER lost.

I forgot it was a desert.

My VG tried to stand but got pushed back. General was killed. Most of the guard. All the supporting archers and cav. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Maelstrom]

Quote[/b] (Ser Clegane @ June 24 2003,13:30)]I am really sorry to say this, Maelstrom ... but I nearly wet my pants when I read the story of your mishap http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

... at least you seem to be a good sport and refrain from pausing the game in such situations (unlike myself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif )
Erm....no, Ser Clagane, I was not a good sport and I was using pause...

It just makes it all the more lamentable. This level of abysmal incompetence does not come easy though - I have worked for months to tune my performance to these depths

As soon as I gan get a decent Web connection, I am going to give MP a go. Just pray you don't finish up on my side....

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Derfel Cadarn]

My first wake up call happened when I was playing the Byzantine. I had, in a previous battle, discovered that Trebizond Archers were a good archery unit. This lead me in one case to garrison a province entirely with Trebizond Archers. Then, the French started a crusade against me.
I fought it off, and then they started sending non-crusade armies, as well.
I faced, on one occassion, a cavalry force, myself only having Trebizond archers and some crossbows. I had a perfect defensive position, a steep hill, and set up my archers in a good formation, confident in my victory, expecting an Agincourt.
Then, the battle started and the cavalry advanced. Indeed, I killed a few knights. But then they reached my lines and the impact left my men scattered and uneasy. They were on the point of routing, and though my troops fought, they did not last long against these professional warriors
I saw my grand victory turn to dust as my troops routed before my very eyes and my commanders was captured in flight

I quickly skipped through the losses list, and made a mental note never to use only archers in battle, again

[Mamushi]

Frogbeast (I do not mind telling you I feel very odd calling a lady Frogbeast http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ) Wonderful stories, are you a frustrated author perhaps? I must admit I recognize many of your stories in my own mishaps on the rather brutal learning curve that is Shogun. Bravo, Best read I have had for quite a while.

[some_totalwar_dude]

I suck so much that when I press the end turn button I instanly lose the game.

edit: oh yeah, the game deletes it self from my hard drive after that

[frogbeastegg]

Thanks Mamushi (and others) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

I'm not a frustrated author just a dyslexic historian who plays too much total war. I'm living proof that anyone can scribble a good yarn by just recounting battle details etc. This is why I wish more people would go down to the warriors hall topic (currently on page 2) and tell their stories. It isn't hard, I can think of at least 3 more stories (one about an inquisitor, one about a geisha and a comedy of a battle that happened between my Vikings and a horde of Mercians) from the games I've played in the last couple of weeks (apart from the geisha, poor broken shogun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif ) I'd add them to the warriors hall but no one seems interested and since it takes me over 2 hours to mangle the spelling into something other people can understand I don't want to waste my time.

I think that these battle field stories demonstrate the best aspects of total war as well as entertaining and teaching new tricks. Nothing shows how versatile a game is than a hundred different stories. Balamir's Warrior hall should be stickied so new comers can see exactly what the game can do as well as cutting down on the number of topics that contain a brilliant story and then fade away inside of a week.

Maelstrom-what can I say? How about http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif That really is funny

[Mount Suribachi]

Lady Frog, why don't you add your name to the Almohad Caliphate lists? Every reign gets a write up and we'd get some more of your humourous work to read http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif If you haven't checked them out, do so, there are some good write ups there.

[Celtlan]

Frogbeast that was a great read http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Have STW WE and Ive not won many battles so far on MP and I know why but it does not help me fix my problem.

OK im sure all these worst battles taught people something but I cant for the life of me work out why I wont listen to myself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

I charge.
yes thats it
one simple little thing
I have a perponderance for charging my army in.

Now i KNOW this does it stop me...... NO

line my men up in nice straight lines with missile units in front set up 2 or 3 lines as required. Start battle let off a few shots and then.......CHARGE...... off goes the whole army to my delighted crys and battle chants

10 seconds later i sit there desperatly pressing the r key for all im worth while clicking on each unit.

The few battles ive won ive sat there shooting away doing not a lot and being frustrated that my mouse wants to click any unit and order a charge.

I think im defective. Maybey I should look in my family tree and see if im related to anyone who survived the Charge of the Light Brigade or something.


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

My first crusade playing as france - I had 1600 odd men (600 peasants) under lord buolloin (5*)in aragon against 600 almos, mainly AUMs and desert archers, with only 6 ghulams uder prince abdulla (8*) as cav. They are on a hill and in the corner and there is no cover except sparse woods along the edge.

I didnt know what to do so sent FMAA and vikings through the wood hoping to crash one side, while distracting them in the centre with spears and some archers. Templars and hobilars are on the left where the hill is less steep. I also held back one uit of hobilars and spears as an immediate reserve.

My FMAA and vikings do their job routing the almos on the right, but unfortunatle the AUMs had routed my centre (didnt know about them at the time), no probs I thought - I will just redirect my fmaa and my immediate reserve and mop them up. As for my templars - the prince is uprotected - i think I will nab me a prisoner har har or so I thought http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Price abdullah wiped out the templars and hobilars, and by the time I got over the shock I realized the AUMs had not only routed my FMAAs but also the 'immediate' reserve http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif and as all that remained in reserve were peasants my crusade was no more.

[Satyr]

Thank you very kindly Frogbeastegg. I greatly enjoyed that write up.

I posted a recent battle report at the .com and I will repost it here and please let me know how you like it. It was written in about 10 minutes of frantic typing but it has enthusiasm.

[Vlad The Impaler]

I actualy know one guy that tried a week to pass the battle from the tutorial in Shogun but he never make it.U know what battle , the last one from the tutorial;after this he never wanted to play shogun again and nor MTW
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Cazbol]

Quote[/b] (Vlad The Impaler @ June 26 2003,15:41)]I actualy know one guy that tried a week to pass the battle from the tutorial in Shogun but he never make it.U know what battle , the last one from the tutorial;after this he never wanted to play shogun again and nor MTW
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
I never won that battle myself, although I admittedly didn't try that often. I nevertheless did fine in STW single player.

[Oaty]

Quote[/b] ]
I actualy know one guy that tried a week to pass the battle from the tutorial in Shogun but he never make it.U know what battle , the last one from the tutorial;after this he never wanted to play shogun again and nor MTW



Don't laugh, when they released the demo(wich is the same as the battle trainer) it did not have the same stats as the normal game does. If you played the battletrainer from the cd it is very easy, but the demo I love playin on occasions still. Yes it is the same thing as the battletrainer on the cd but about 10 times harder. I am a veteran player of showgun and still win only 50 percent of the time so if you think you are good download the demo version of the battletrainer and you just might feel like a newbie.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Just got an urge to play STW and re-fought that tutorial battle. That ain't that hard... if the guy was unable to win the first times he should have get it right at some point http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

My worst battle in STW was my first in a bridge battle. Boy... i tried to rush the bridge with every YS and YA i had... the enemy had archers and they shoot me to shreads. It was about 50 casualties for them and more than 700 for me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

My great leader had to run dishonorably from the battlefield. I should have commited suicide for my disgrace... but im a coward when it comes to hurt myself.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Derfel Cadarn]

Another really bad battle I had was vs the Swiss.
When you face the Swiss, you know the odds are against you.
But with my 800 men army I had high hopes, especially since there was only one unit guarding Switzerland, and he had no command rating whatsoever
The Swiss king had invaded Burgundy in France with his entire army, leaving only on man behind. However, the French outnumbered him, and, I had learned from previous experience, he would withdraw upon hearing that the enemy outnumbered him. So if I (the Germans) cut off his home province, the King and his entire army would be lost
All that was in the way between the current situation and my victory, was one armoured swiss pikeman.
So, confidently, I sent an army of 300 archers, 400 feudal sergeants and nearly 100 Gothic Knights, whom I dismounted.
Having arrived on the field of battle, my troops looked around. No enemy to be seen. The map was forested, so I had to check out every bush to see where he was I spent half my time doing this
Then he suddenly appeared behind me, boldly approaching my troops. Haha, sucker I thought.
He thought the same.

I first peppered him with arrows for a full few minutes. I should've continued this. But I was impetious and saw the timer creeping on...
I charged my entire footfolk at him, and took care to stop my archers and crossbows from firing.
A tiring melee followed. Soldier after soldier fell to his pike. He fought on. But I knew he had to die once
But not today: suddenly, it appeared the timer had expired Some 100+ losses; I hadn't even hurt a fly
The brave man had held out against the odds; I had been right in my prophecy: the Swiss King refused to battle the French and moved back to Switzerland with more than 500 men. Another lost chance

[ham&bacon]

You all got me pondering upon my early Shogun days http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif By the way, most excellent story telling by frogbeastegg (or something like that, I can't remember the name exactly)I was surprised that no one seems to remember the Hojo Blitzkrieg in those early campaign games.Yes, all these times that we've all tried to win as the Shimazu or the Mori (or even the Oda) only to find out that 7 or 12 stacks of purple pain http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif are waiting for you at Kawachi or HidaAnd all these heroic -in true Thermopylai fashion- last stand battles up until the last cape of Kyushu islandWonderful a**-got-kicked times My first -and last I hope- similar shock in MTW was with the Almos.By 1120 I had prepared a full stack, including amongst others 4 AUM units, lead by a 4 star general to smash these yellow ignorant SpaniardsFighting begins in Castile and things are moving along smoothly.Than my AUMs are sided -while massacring spanish spearmen- by a pack of royal knights led by a *legendary leader* princeOuch...And, just to make things worse, it starts to rain practically disabling my 4 archer unitsOut of 960 men only 150 survived, the general was killed in action, and I had to spend over 60 years fighting off spanish and italian crusades with tech level 2 units and 800 fiorins in treasury.Well, after several months of MTW things are better, but still both the spanish and the italians are my primary extinction targets in every campaignNo matter my later successes, those early days Armageddon defeats are hard to forget-I'm sorry for my english-

[Celtlan]

Welcome to the Org Ham&bacon http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Good first post, a glorious defeat story. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Ill update my last post on this thread to say im learning.
This thread must have been good therapy
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ham&bacon]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif Thank you for your kind words CeltlanI'll try my best to keep up with all the good intending madness that goes around hereAnyway, with factions such as the Byz and the HRE it's really difficult to get creamed, superb generals and dependable units all over the place...kind of predictable...that's why it's such fun to play as the AragonesePesky French, Spanish and Almos all around Aragon...(these psychiatry & psychology courses must have really damaged my sense of fun...)

[bighairyman]

well, i ahve played shougun since the begining. so i'm pretty good w/ the battals.

well here's my worst defeat. play the english and war against germany. conquer sawbia and built 3 royal knight there. think that was enough. well the germans sen ton eof their uber general. a unit of swabian swordsmen w/ 5 valour and 5 stars invaded. well i though no problem, my 5 royal knights will run over them. but just be catious i built a peasant. so the battle started. and i thought i will flank it w/ 2 royal knights. so i sent 1 royal and 1 peasant to h2h it. and i sen the rest royal to flank. the problem was the 2 royal went too far out so it took them like 2 minutes to reach the SS. so meantime the SS chew through my peasants and rout them. and by the time the 2 royals arrive. the other begin to rout w/ 7 left.

then suddenly the SS choped down my general(0 star) and kill a lot of my royals. end of battle. 45 peasants and 15 royals left. i think i kill 20 SS.


PS. did i mention i lost http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif

[Mega Dux Bob]

My big moment of MTW foolishness was playing the Byzantine: I was playing the glorious achievement so when I conquered my fifteen provinces, wasted the Egyptians, the Turks, the Italians and the Pope (teach that schismatic bridge inspector to call for crusades against me) and was setting back rejoicing in the glory that was New Rome. Well, as they say, pride cometh before the fall; the Almohads were getting upatty having whacked the Spanish and the English (something about my chasing the Almohads out of Africa). This will not do I decree, these orange boys are getting to big to be comfortable neighbors, so I
dispatch three armies and an elite team of Embassaries into Spain to teach the orange peril some respect.

Long raid across the breath of Europe, what I can not defeat is bribed to join me. All conquered provinces are stripped to the bone and then abandoned. The French make a comeback and the Almohads are driven weeping into , er, Sweden. The now vast 5,000 man army returns gloriously to the Empire, mass of rejoicing is had in the Haga Sofia while the less reliable elements in the raiding party are disbanded and thier more dangerous leaders assassinated (less they rebel, oh the irony).

Life is good in Greece.

But meanwhile, unnoticed by the Emperor, the French conquer Saxony trigging off a Byzantine loyalist rebellion, (even weirder the loyalist leader is a Almohad). The rebels win against wave after wave of the French until he's a valor 7. The Emperor is amused and being building up his army , soon this Greekafied Berber and his army of German rebels conquer and sizable patch of ground.

Then he rebels.

This triggers off a sympathy revolts throughout the Empire. In a fit of absolute foolish arrogance I flaunted my wealth by setting up each province with a garrison of three units so the rebels are very well equipped thank you. Closer to home I was using Nicosia (sp?) for unit retraining, so the twenty units valor 2+ veterans goes over to the rebels (almost every veteran unit in the Empire) To add insult to injury my siege train rebels and attacks the Emperor in Constantinouple

Only two things saved my bottom on this one ; the navy stayed loyal, so I was able to gather enough troops to win in the critical spots, and I had this huge pile of cash so I could buy off a lot of the rebels.

Meanwhile that rat fink Berber is still off in Saxony thumbing his nose at me having killed off every army and any assassins I have sent after him.

[bighairyman]

Quote[/b] (Mega Dux Bob @ July 03 2003,14:26)]Meanwhile that rat fink Berber is still off in Saxony thumbing his nose at me having killed off every army and any assassins I have sent after him.
wow, lol

maybe u should bribe him http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . just a though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Mega Dux Bob]

Quote[/b] (bighairyman @ July 03 2003,20:35)]maybe u should bribe him http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . just a though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

You don't understand - there is a moral issue involved here I will not give into to blackmail from a AI We of Byzantium do not pay blackmail to unwashed barbarians off in waistlands of Germania somewhere(waistlands we know all to well about, having created them ourselves) :o Besides if I bought him out his accumen is too high to successfully try him, and he just must die. Die, die, die, die(that would just be perfect; unsuccessful trial triggers off another rebellion) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Knight Keimo]

Funny stories, have to say.. I´m nothing but a meaningless amateur when compared to you others, you´r so much better... I mean worster http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Yup, in fact I´m quite bad myself, but unfortunalty my english isn´t good enough to wrote a stories how bad I really am.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif

I would like to.

[Mechstra]

I'm crap in the extreme when attacking bridges. I always plan my attacks on fronts that have no bridges, and have been known to withdraw in seconds if I've carelessly attacked a bridge province. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[barocca]

Quote[/b] (frogbeastegg @ June 24 2003,13:18)]I suppose the time I got addicted to geisha counts. I loved the cut scenes so much I assassinated everything in sight and ended up fighting a Japan full of very angry and united rebels. Being out numbered by around 50 provinces is not fun. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif been there http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
I loved the way the rebels would co-ordinate attacks in Shogun,
I especially loved when a faction which had Geisha's died out and you had rebel Geisha to contend with...

[Lord_PH]

at the very beginning of a battle, i saw a hill that was overlooking me and decided to station my troops there (i was defence), my archers in the front. however, when i started, i was facing the enemy, calvary in the front, 50m from where my archers where...

horrible defeat. whole army fled...

[hrvojej]

Quote[/b] (Lord_PH @ July 05 2003,18:08)]at the very beginning of a battle, i saw a hill that was overlooking me and decided to station my troops there (i was defence), my archers in the front. however, when i started, i was facing the enemy, calvary in the front, 50m from where my archers where...

horrible defeat. whole army fled...
Yes, I love this blunder as well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
It's great when you spend half an hour meticulously placing those troops, taking great care that everything is taken care of, all angles covered, etc., only to find yourself within a bowshot of the AI army, who charges instantly and all that trouble goes to waste in seconds. Kinda like when you build a card house, and then the wind blows... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mega Dux Bob]

Quote[/b] (hrvojej @ July 05 2003,18:28)]Yes, I love this blunder as well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
It's great when you spend half an hour meticulously placing those troops, taking great care that everything is taken care of, all angles covered, etc., only to find yourself within a bowshot of the AI army, who charges instantly and all that trouble goes to waste in seconds. Kinda like when you build a card house, and then the wind blows... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
How about; doing that loving set up and then just as the enemy assaults pushing the flee button on your' general's unit instead of the ungroup

[TheRookiee]

I like to attack right where the enemy will never expect it Right up through the middle, across the minefield in broad daylight.

Attack I say. But general, they outnumber us 3 to 1. Destroy them I say. But sir, our men need to rest after the all night march. Don't give me excuses, charge Sir, the enemy has much higher quality of weapons, armor and surely a better general. I don't want any more excuses. Surround them and annihilate them

Needless to say, I was not the victor on the battlefield this day. Boy, it sure is hard to get an army who will win with my superior tactics.

[Vacuity]

I played STW first and loved it, but I can't remember any of my defeats well enough that I could write them down. I bought MTW the day it was released and I figured it would work pretty much the same way. Even so when I started my first campaign (English) I autocalced almost all the battles to get a handle on the campaign map. A number of years in I decided I'd start doing the battles myself.
It wasn't a large battle, about 400 men on each side as those pesky French backstabbingly attempted to take Flanders from my grasp. Not a problem I think. As I get to deployment my STW training kicks in; Look for the best hill, and there it is, right in the middle of the map. No problem. I set up, I click to start the battle and take a look at what he is attacking with...

Ooh, that looks interesting What is it?
A Trebuchet?
I thought they were only for sieges? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
Err... It's firing

Bang Enormous casualties to my spearman unit. And bounces into the archers behind them. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Err...
Err...

It fires again.

Bang More casualties, this time to my general's unit of Hobilars...

His forces are closing in a bit by now and he has quite a bit of light cavalry. If I try to withdraw from the hill I'll get chased down... If I stay where I am I'll get pounded into jelly. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Twang The Mangonel fires again... It hits my general's unit again http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif and... he gets squashed. The enemy charges, my peasants break... my hobilars break... most of the rest of my army decides that discretion is the safer part of valour and desertion the best way of staying alive... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Disaster... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

I've been playing since the game came out and swear I've never seen artillery being used as devastatingly as in that first time I saw it... Probably it was just the shock of it, but also I learnt very fast never to set up a defence within artillery range of the attacker http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Lord_PH @ July 06 2003,00:08)]at the very beginning of a battle, i saw a hill that was overlooking me and decided to station my troops there (i was defence), my archers in the front. however, when i started, i was facing the enemy, calvary in the front, 50m from where my archers where...

horrible defeat. whole army fled...
You clearly were not paying attention to the tutorial mission of defending on a hill... Archers always go Behind Spearmen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

But yeah I have had some real surprises when deployment is over.

I really didn't like it when I attacked some Rebels in France, The Germans who were my allies joined me and I thought it would be easy. The rebels had a fairly competent general, similar to mine, but I had slightly more men... I thought it would be easy having the Germans backing me as well.

We start off facing a large very good hill and I think I'll rush that and take it The Battle starts and the Germans are beside me in the Woods nearby I start my climb up the hill and what do I see when my units come near the top... The Whole enemy army camped out in front of me and they started to charge Clearly they couldn't see the Germans in the woods and focused all their units on me.

The Germans were busy wandering around the Hill trying to outflank... Lord knows what was going on in their leader's mind, but after a good battle my general was killed and my army was routed off the map before the Germans even got within bowshot

Talk about humiliating (and yes the general was a good runner afterwards) I regrouped and attacked with my King, the Germans came in once again and the rebels were slaughtered.

Rest assured I executed all the rebels as revenge for my defeat http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

My lowest moment is visible for all to see in the Main Hall thread, Emperor of Byzantium.

I bought Shogun the day of its UK release.

I bought Medieval the day of its UK release

I bought Viking Invasion the day of its UK release.

Then I go and post that I've found a bug where your income increases by 1 every turn. Guess which muppet was looking at the year...

[ShaiHulud]

There's been so many battles, I can't recall how bad I was. (Convenient, eh?)

Yet, I still recall one victory turned to ashes when my 6-star general, busily pursuing a fleeing enemy, was smashed by a catapult.....my own. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KukriKhan]

Moved to its natural home in the Mead Hall.

[ShadesWolf]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif Erm how shall I begin http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif


I have the ability, and Sinan and Tarrak, will beack me up on this one - To turn an online victory into defeat. Im not sure how I manage to achieve this operation. All will be going well, my range weapons are wiping the enemy out, with easy, as a last chance the enemy charges me. Usually I have a line full on kills, and yes u guessed it, it changes to a line full of deaths..........


The other activity I would like to share with you is my heirs ability, when playing as the HRE, to start a rebellion within the first 5 years of the game. This I seem to excel at. It usually coincides within the pope X-comming me and an invasion by either France, Poland or Hungary.

[frogbeastegg]

I just remembered another embarrassing tale about my early days in Shogun, this one had been deeply buried in my memory as it is psychologically traumatising.

When I was first playing Shogun the graphics were a little blurry (it was running on a voodoo 2) and it was hard to see the little details on the samurai. I spent half an hour setting up my army for a massive defensive battle in my first campaign, carefully arranging my troops in the best conditions. Then the battle starts; the enemy draw closer and I wonder why my archers aren't firing. I decide that the enemy must be slightly out of range, a few seconds later and they still aren't firing and the enemy are getting really close. I'm starting to get worried and a little annoyed. Now the enemy are only a few meters away and will be charging soon and still no arrows, the archers are definitely on fire at will and in range this is ridiculous Three seconds later my entire army runs away with no casualties on both sides and no orders being given by me. It was only as they started to run that I realised what the problem was - I had set the army up backwards Yep, that's right the samurai were stood there with their backs to the enemy.

My excuse is that the graphics were so blurry I couldn't see which way the men were facing. You see if you drag a unit out you have to do it behind where the unit will be placed and you have to drag from left to right. Anything else will set the unit up backwards. This is one of those undocumented features that I only found out about because of incidents like this.

Yes I did say that as a plural, I set various units up backwards in other battles too. It took me about 30 battles to realise what was happening and why the units were sometimes ending up backwards. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

You might wonder why I suddenly remembered this now, there’s a simple answer to that. I just did it again while testing a theory for my unit guide One group of yari ashigaru were withdrawn from chasing a rout and accidentally set up backwards on my left flank. The enemy regrouped as I intended and attacked the ashigaru who ran away without even fighting back. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Ituralde]

Just add to answer to this post, first off to congratulate frogbeastegg on her really excellent story about Shogun: Total War and second to tell you about my biggest blunder, which makes me sad to this day.

It was right there, while playing the Shogun demo, that has already been mentioned in this thread, that I came to the last lesson, which would teach me the way of a truly great commander. So I sat there, mouse at the ready, hands on the keyboard mostly hitting the 'Pause' key desperately. But it was all to no avail, no matter how I shifted my units around, whether I attacked on the right or the left flank or even tried to force my way through the middle it was always the same devastating result:
My Cavalry would face their Spears!
My Archers would face their Cavalry!
My Spears would just mill around trying to reach the cavalry, while being peppered with arrows!

I tried again and again but it was to no avail, I just couldn't win. So I sat back and considered, rewatchted that one glorious video I had of Shogun TW from a gaming mag, that showed the game in all its glory. And I sat there thinking to myself: 'If you can't even beat the demo, because you are too stupid to control your army, how in hell could you stand a chance in the real game.'
Well, I was young and naive back then and probably too fatalistic and didn't buy S:TW as a result. M:TW finally managed to get me over my first frustrating TW experience and got me hooked.
But due to that one fatal experience I missed out on Shogun Total War and haven't gotten around to play it until this day, which everything considered is a truly sad thing to behold. :shame:

Sad!

Ituralde

[Vladimir]

My story involves a small battle, nothing like the grand ones described before. When I picked up M:TW for $10 I had no clue how to play. When it came out I was more focused in AD&D style games and didn’t like the look of it.

Playing the Spanish (because they’re the best faction!) I immediately decided to get a jump start on the Reconquista. So I put together an army and attack the Elmos. Things start well, I begin to learn of the beauty of jinettes, and then I’m attacked.

Nothing big, just a few units per side. Only units of note are my spearmen and a unit of AUM. Before this I thought spearmen were similar to ancient phalanxes and no unit with their tiny little swords can break through THIS! Set 4 or 5 deep, I park them on a nice hill and eagerly await the death of many Muslims. Then they attacked.

As the AUM slowly, steadily chewed their way through my men I thought: “Huh, they’re doing pretty good but maybe they’ll run out of momentum soon.” But no, I loose.

Well I think, let’s try it again; maybe I just had some bad “rolls” or something. So here I go. Same everything and I loose. “This can’t be! Let’s try it again to see if we can find a better hill.” Eventually I get a map with a better hill. I mean like a 45 degree hill that you have to climb on all fours. As the AUMs chew through my men I zoom in saying: “Go, go go!” (I probably should have said stop, stop, stop).

Battle lost and the known universe falling down around me I finally retreat and say: “Off to the Forums!” And now I know that was a bad idea. :oops: