Hello all and a question

[Hetman_Koronny]

*bows*

Hello http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif, this is my first post here so please be gentle (I’m in stress ). I’ve a question that may have been answered before, but I have not found that answer. Anyway, my problem may be a bit complicated but at the same time quite important (I think), so please have patience with me explaining the whole thing.

I’ve been playing MTW since it was released (never played Shogun thou) and for most of the time I played for Total Domination. I, however, became rather discouraged because of all that AI gangups, pope and freemason-cyclist conspiracy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. Thus, I took upon playing for Glorious Achievements. So far, I’ve played the Polish, Spanish and Turkish campaigns in the mode, enjoying them a lot. I found what I was looking for – I could restrain from expanding my empire (what assured many long-term allies) concentrating on other goals: tech development, trade, all that micromanagement I love and finally glorious achievements.

Well, not that it is impossible to handle micromanagement in when playing for total domination but you know how it is: you end up ruling 70%+ of the world with all those huge, unbeatable armies, dumb and corrupt governors, pathetic heirs, 100 spies and assassins you no longer have patience to manage, ‘awesome’ 9* generals who are ‘not so bold’ (God knows why), etc., etc.

In GA I could maintain a kingdom with say seven provinces (Spanish) and have great time becoming the richest, most developed and all that jazz. With Polish or Turks it may be a bit more difficult (Spain is perfectly localized geographical wise) but also possible. Do you happen to play that way?

Hold on, I am about to get to my point is after all that lengthy intro (finally, hehe). When playing in GA I only have a very limited possibility to “work on” my generals, including kings and heirs. By ‘working on’ generals I mean getting them some good virtues battlefield wise, that is (e.g expert defender/attacker, utterly fearless, scant mercy, skilled this or that, and many more). When you don’t fight you have no way of getting those virtues and after a couple of decades my heirs are mostly lazy b%$@#rds and all armies seem to be continually drunk (especially when playing Polish 1 – no kidding, 2 – no offence either, I am a Pole). You see what I mean now? How do you therefore train your generals without conquering the world? Or you can’t?

On final note, when playing Spanish I actually could develop the good virtues thanks to the brave Portuguese who can be easily forced to rebel literally every year for like ages (v.high tax, no garrison troops). However, I consider such acting as cheating for, I guess, obvious reasons.

Any ideas on training your generals under the above conditions will be greatly appreciated. Should anything be unclear in my post let me plz know I'll try to explain.

*bows*

P.S. Closing remarks:
- I’m playing MTW ver.1.0 (please don’t ask why, I promise to get VI asap)
- I am foreign – sorry for my English
- I have been visiting these forums for some time now and I really like it, kudos to all that contribute http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

[BlackFireStorm]

Hetman,

I also play Glorious Achivements rather than total domination, and I'm having the same problem - low valour armies, generals with just a couple of stars. As fas as I am aware, you can only train them up on the battlefield. I sometimes have generals who go the other way too - by this I mean they show up on the field of battle with -4 valour and run at the first sight of the enemy. It's just another thing to manage along with taxes, trade and diplomacy. In my current game France and Sicily (me) have grown to hold 80% of the map between us and we're currently engaged in a super-power struggle for dominance. When this begun I was worried as my generals were mostly drunken crackpots. Fortunatly, so were the Frenchies, and so far we're winning out.

I'm guessing here - I'm sure someone will tell me what the real story is - but the 'lazy' vices (gluttony, drinker, alcoholic etc) seem to appear on generals who have sat in the same place for a long time. My solution is to keep everyone moving about - at least once every few years. I *seem* to be getting fewer of thes v&v's now, but I can't say I've really studied it. Hope this helps.

Also, no need to apologise for your English, it's excellent.

[Hetman_Koronny]

*bows*

BlackFireStorm, thanks for your replay. It seems for me too that the vices you mention stick to generals when not battling for some time. I guess that’s the way it should be – like in the real life. Hence, if the game is *so* realistic then, if you have a Military Academy your generals should be able to get i.e. Skilled Defender without even fighting a single battle. I know – the Academy gives (supposedly) +1 to discipline, but you see my point – it (the Academy) could perhaps *at least* work as something to prevent the generals become lazy, drunken cowards.


Quote[/b] ]I sometimes have generals who go the other way too - by this I mean they show up on the field of battle with -4 valour and run at the first sight of the enemy

Happens to me to, not so rarely with the King himself. Makes me wonder where does it come from http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif? I’ve seen this with some generals without ANY vices (or having ‘legendary leader’ to make things worse). Is it only cuz they don’t get to lead battles? Perhaps some vices are not displayed and you only find out about them after some time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif?


Quote[/b] ]My solution is to keep everyone moving about - at least once every few years.

So it seems to me. Sadly, it inevitably takes me back to total domination style of playing as I get attacked by others and must fight them. But I guess it’s better than having generals with stinking vices…

I’ve another question. How many times do you have to kill prisoners to get ‘butcher’ virtue http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ? Does it also matter how many (total) prisoners you kill? I’d like to ‘apply’ the virtue to my maximum dread Turkish general in the campaign I’m currently playing… http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

*bows*

[MrWhipple]

Welcome to the gang Hetney, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
I also play GA and get in to the same mess. One of my cures is to keep an eye out for rebel provences and send in a stack or two ( but not too many ) of troops and smack them around a bit then bug out, let them revolt and do it over again a few times, rotating in new generals(it's kinda a tag team thing). I keep a big sea trade network going so I can see these opurtinites pop up all over the map. If nobody is willing to oblige me by revolting on thier own, I send in a platoon of spies and/or asasins to disrupt tings until they do. The bottom line is: if you want to seem to get along, you have to be sneakey about it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

p.s. don't woury aboutt the spulling thang I been taking engulish all mi live and still halve problumes wit it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Now i might be wrong here but to boost the economy to help with GA, if you own the holy land don't you get a huge trading bonus when Marco Polo arrives in the 13th century?
Get down there as the turks or anyone in that area( i haven't read all the post so if you have said that already i'm sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )

[Hetman_Koronny]

Thanks for the welcome MrWhipple http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Being sneaky must be the key... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

lol, King, you'd really need to read my post to answer my concern since it is not quite about economy, heh, nevermind. And, I think you get the bonuns from Marco Polo's voyages, but it's some new trading goods in Syria i Tripoli (might be wrong here).

[HopAlongBunny]

Welcome aboard Hetman_ http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

I think the only thing to do really, is just what you have already found; get a province that will rebel easily and use it as a training ground. It keeps your generals sharp and helps the valour of units. Nothing worse than getting to 1300-something with a pile of 0 valour units (just itching to become dogmeat and runaway http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif )

[Jacque Schtrapp]

Hail Hetman_Koronny http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

From a gameplay aspect you might try lowering taxes as I think high taxes represent oppressive government and might cause negative traits in your generals. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

From a historical standpoint, corrupt and crazy governor's should be entirely accurate. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Cebei]

Welcome to the Forum http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Actually I have a good solution to dumb generals and idiot heirs, but some people had no luck with my prescription. Anyway, I always keep governors in the same army with the king. This way they get less vices...and less virtues too. And keep that army in the capital city.

I have no idea about the usage of princes actually. If the king is old, I tend to send all princes (except the best one) into tremendous odds alone to get rid of them. So that my great prince will become king next.

[Gregoshi]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Anyone seasick yet? There are more waves in this topic than in the North Sea. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

I hope you feel as welcomed as you are Koronny. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif Thanks for joining us.

[Hobot]

To me it seems that the granting of virtues and vices is purely random. As sometimes a gov will become a drunk or inbred, and at other times he'll become valourous for no reason. So what I do is take the ones with vices like pride (which is great for valor but can turn to lazy which sux), and stick them under better generals so that they don't get any more virtues or vices. Same with princes, if they have virtues I let them be a general, if they have bad vices i don't want to develop i stick them under my king or a better general. This way I get to develop a few good generals. I never feel that I'm unequipped in terms of leadership, unless that whole game i've been getting princes with no more than 2** http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Hobot]

To me it seems that the granting of virtues and vices is purely random. As sometimes a gov will become a drunk or inbred, and at other times he'll become valourous for no reason. So what I do is take the ones with vices like pride (which is great for valor but can turn to lazy which sux), and stick them under better generals so that they don't get any more virtues or vices. Same with princes, if they have virtues I let them be a general, if they have bad vices i don't want to develop i stick them under my king or a better general. This way I get to develop a few good generals. I never feel that I'm unequipped in terms of leadership, unless that whole game i've been getting princes with no more than 2** http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Quokka]

VnV's seem to be random for me also. I tried your approach Cebei but after a few years being the richest my governors still got religious and artistic leanings etc.

I hate it when generals get the Lazy vice for not moving. There is a reason I stuck my 6 star in Constantinople, he's there to stop anyone coming through and keep the 6000Fls its making. He's not supposed to criss cross the country especially when my next best general is in Kiec and the Horde are in Khazar and Trebizond.

As for the 'Butcher' virtue(?), you have to kill 1000 prisoners in a single battle, so start saving now. It's like medieval Flybuys.

[Hetman_Koronny]

*bows*

Just came back at the comp after a two day break...

Thanks Gregoshi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif and the others who were so kind to stop by and say hello http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

HopAlongBunny: I know what you mean - Portugal seems the best province to keep generals busy. Livonia (sp?) does a good job too. Still, I consider taking advantage of this a bit cheesy. Correct - the people from the provinces would rebel more often what is historically correct. Wrong - they would not do it a 50th time in the row having 10K high-everthing troops waiting in the neighbourhood provinces to kick the crap outta them.

Jacque Schtrapp: agreed.

Cebei: I may want to try your prescription. But then again, I'd rather not keep my governor of Constantinopole (e.g.) by my king as the former is an 8* commander http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Hobot: I don't think getting v&v is random. Well, at least not in all cases.

I've only recently noticed that some governors never get some bad vices (like corrupt or lazy) but it is also hard to gain them some good virtues at the same time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif For me it seems that SOME governors receive some moderate virtues in the begining like: friendly, sharp mind or charismatic and thus they never get the lazy and other crap vices. But on the other hand it SEEMS for me that I have to work the general harder to get him some good battlefield virtues and such governors never get 'utterly fearles' or other top-notch virtues. Any comments on this will be appreciated.

So v&v may be random but IMHO only to little degree. It is all written in the stars http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

Quokka: Thanks, I'm gonna try that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

*bows*